- 12 minuti fa
Fuori dalla vista? Eurodeputati divisi sugli hub di rimpatrio dei migranti a The Ring
In questa nuova puntata di The Ring, in onda dal Parlamento europeo di Bruxelles, gli eurodeputati Lena Düpont (PPE) e Juan Fernando López Aguilar (S&D) discutono se i centri di rimpatrio accelereranno il rientro dei migranti irregolari.
ALTRE INFORMAZIONI : http://it.euronews.com/2026/04/09/fuori-dalla-vista-eurodeputati-divisi-sugli-hub-di-rimpatrio-dei-migranti-a-the-ring
Abbonati, euronews è disponibile in 12 lingue.
In questa nuova puntata di The Ring, in onda dal Parlamento europeo di Bruxelles, gli eurodeputati Lena Düpont (PPE) e Juan Fernando López Aguilar (S&D) discutono se i centri di rimpatrio accelereranno il rientro dei migranti irregolari.
ALTRE INFORMAZIONI : http://it.euronews.com/2026/04/09/fuori-dalla-vista-eurodeputati-divisi-sugli-hub-di-rimpatrio-dei-migranti-a-the-ring
Abbonati, euronews è disponibile in 12 lingue.
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00:07Hello there and welcome to The Ring, Euronews' weekly debate show broadcasting here from the
00:13European Parliament in Brussels. On The Ring, elected members of the European Parliament go
00:19face to face on some of the biggest issues facing the European Union. Today we're focusing on
00:25migration with new rules that allow deportation centers to be set up outside EU borders.
00:30Luis Albertos has more. On the 26th of March, the European Parliament adopted a reform enabling
00:39member states to set up migration return hubs in third countries for rejected asylum seekers.
00:46The measure marks a significant hardening of EU migration policy, allowing deportations to
00:52external facilities negotiated with partner states. The vote unfolded against escalating turmoil in the
00:58Middle East that has led to massive displacement in the region. In Lebanon alone, over 1 million
01:03people have been forced to flee their homes, according to the UN's International Organization
01:08for Migration. Although large-scale onward migration to Europe remains unlikely, the EU is moving towards
01:16stricter migration policies. In this context, German Chancellor Friedrich Merz faced widespread
01:22backlash after stating that over the longer term of the next three years, 80% of the Syrians currently
01:29in Germany should return to their homeland. What does the European Parliament's rightward shift on
01:36migration mean for the future of asylum? And can the EU balance stricter migration policies with growing
01:42human rights concerns? They're the questions that we have for our contenders. Let's meet them.
01:52Lena Dupont, a German MEP from the Central Right European People's Party,
01:57she serves on the Committee on Civil Liberties, Justice and Home Affairs. Regarding returns in the
02:02third country concept, she said, the EU must speed up the rejection of clearly unfounded asylum applications
02:08by applying the safe third country concept and an EU list of safe countries of origin,
02:13asylum procedures become faster and more efficient while protecting those in real need.
02:19Juan Fernando López Aguilar, a Spanish MEP from the Socialists and Democrats Group.
02:24He serves in the Committee on Civil Liberties, Justice and Home Affairs and is one of the European
02:29Parliament's most influential figures on migration and asylum policy. Before being an MEP,
02:34he served as Spain's Minister of Justice. Migration is a fact, it is not a threat,
02:40and walls are not the answer, said López Aguilar, highlighting the need to manage migration while
02:46respecting human rights. Juan Fernando López Aguilar and Lena Dupont, welcome to The Ring.
02:52The aim here is to give our viewers a glimpse of your debates inside the European Parliament,
02:57so you should feel right at home. So look, let's pick up on that vote. On these return hubs,
03:02you voted in favour. You say it's the missing piece of the puzzle. Why?
03:06Well, because it is the missing piece of the puzzle. We invested quite heavily in the previous term
03:11in the so-called Asylum and Migration Policy Pact, so the new Pact on Asylum and Migration,
03:16and that was always the missing part to that pact. It has been part of it before. It was taken
03:21out
03:22for political reasons because we were not able to find an agreement. And in this term, we really need
03:26to make sure that this last missing piece of a pact is indeed implemented. But on the other hand,
03:33we've seen bodies like the Council of Europe warning that these hubs could create human rights black
03:38holes. Juan Fernando, what is your view here? Of course, we are concerned. Return hubs are not the
03:44answer, particularly when they are outside the borders of the European Union. Return hubs have no guarantees
03:50of respect to fundamental rights. They are not consistent with EU law. They are not consistent
03:54with the architecture we put in place when we adopted the Migration and Asylum Pact. And of course,
03:59they give the chance to member states to, for an economic compensation to some kind of a ruler
04:05outside the European Union, keep migrants out of our sight. And that's not the idea.
04:11Lena Dumont, how do you address these concerns? Well, first of all, your concerns were not just
04:16basically neglected or ignored. There have been part of the discussions. You have been,
04:20and your group have been on the table as well. But you decided to leave. You also did not support
04:25the compromise, for example, from the Liberal rapporteur. And that was also not only about
04:31returns. Indeed, return hubs are in there. But still in the Parliament's mandate, we have the article on
04:37the fundamental rights, which are the basic assumption for the whole concept as such. We are
04:42speaking about security cases. We are speaking about really bringing the resources of the member states
04:47together with that of the European Union to make sure that afterwards, more than one in five
04:53returnees actually is returned, which is the current case. But how can you be sure there'll be over five?
04:58On the return hubs as such, it's always based on agreements and arrangements, which are bilateral or
05:04trilateral, multilateral. But do you really deep down trust these arrangements? Will it not be
05:08more kind of out of sight, out of mind? Well, if you look at the debate as such on return
05:13hubs,
05:14for example, when you're also debating with international organisations, they're also not saying
05:17it's not feasible. They're saying under certain conditions, it is workable. And it stems from the
05:23fact that we know that most of the people actually do want to return to their region, to their country,
05:29if it's possible. But if it's not possible, and there are other opportunities in the vicinity
05:33of their home region, it should be feasible actually to also return people to there.
05:38But you fear people could be left in legal limbo?
05:40Of course. Let's make it clear. We socialists, we try to be part of the equation. But we're left
05:48aside. And the EPP preferred to join a majority with the far-right groups of the European Parliament,
05:55which are three far-right groups. And they were the ones to adopt this instrument. Of course,
06:00we understand that member states are concerned about returns. But return hubs, absolutely not,
06:07because they are externalizing the management of the whole issue. Besides, there are no guarantees to
06:13protect fundamental rights when they're outside the European Union, because those third states are not
06:19bound by EU law, are not bound by fundamental rights considerations. Besides, they're extending the
06:25time frame. There were 18 months, but now they are up to two years out of the...
06:32You're nodding your head of disagreement here. But Juan Fernando López has a point. In the past,
06:37you worked a lot, very closely with the socialists in this European Parliament. But now you're working
06:42much closer with the far right. Well, let me do probably get two things straight here. A,
06:48this question about the detention is not connected to return hubs. It's a different part of the of the
06:53legislation that we were discussing upon. And for security cases, I do think that there are credible
06:58reasons and credible examples in all member states why a prolonged detention sometimes can be not only
07:05necessary but needed. Second thing is, we have been proposing, and you speak about the concerns of
07:11the member states, the mandate we put forward for a vote is based on the council's position,
07:17on the commission proposal where we thought that we needed to protect specifically the European angle
07:22of that proposal, and it's based on papers that the EPP had produced for a very long time. So,
07:28known positions of ours. If we are not allowed to put that forward to a vote,
07:33because someone else might jump on it, then actually we do have a bit of a difficult
07:38political discussion. You know, I very much respect the position of the SND here. I know
07:42that it also has been a tough negotiations for them, but they were the ones deciding to leave the
07:47table. It was not us. We did our best, as we did, to be part of the majority to adopt
07:53the immigration
07:54and asylum pact. But the thing is that ever since this mandate started, there's been a new majority,
08:00the EPP leaning with three far-right political groups, and they have been the ones to somehow
08:06legalize the so-called Meloni practice with Albania. But it's not only Albania, it can be whatever,
08:12third country, maybe in Africa. Why should a third country ruler accept that kind of a deal from a
08:19member state? Only because of economic compensation? Is that enough to protect the fundamental rights
08:24involved, to protect the minors, to protect the economic component minors, fundamental rights
08:29involved? Are there any legal considerations which are actually considered with the architecture
08:34that we finally adopted? No, the answer is not. Are there? In your view, are there?
08:37We didn't invest to meet that concern, but they did not.
08:41All the models are based on a contractual, on a treaty basis. And that, of course, allows the European
08:48Union, the member states on their bilateral or multilateral level to really follow up. We have
08:54the attention and actually also, if needed, and I think that this is something that should be
08:59taken into consideration, also the support by the international organizations. So there will be
09:04a lot of emphasis. And describe a return hub to our viewers. How would it look like?
09:07Well, it depends on how the member states actually design it now, together with the commission,
09:11as part of the, let's say, integral approach also to our third country corporation. And again,
09:16we're investing quite heavily in third countries, not only when it comes to border management and
09:21asylum capacities, but for example, when it comes to economic prosperity, when it comes to fundamental
09:26rights and so on and so forth. Does that not reassure you that the commission and the member states
09:30together will design how these hubs should look? Not enough. Of course, we are aware that as to the
09:36so-called non-eligible people to stay, they are human beings. And they made it irregularly, never illegally.
09:45We object to that kind of a lexicology, because they were not given the chance to make it regular.
09:50There have been no legal pathways, and that's been the very one demand of the S&D group right from
09:55the
09:55outset. Legal pathways should be open. Humanitarian corridors, humanitarian visas, legal pathways so that
10:02they don't have to risk their lives to make it irregularly to the European Union. Once they are here, of
10:07course,
10:07you have to tell the difference between those who are entitled to some kind of human rights consideration,
10:14particularly incumbent minors and women with minors and families in special conditions,
10:21so that they are given the proper treatment, but as to putting them out of our sight and making a
10:29deal with
10:30some third country ruler so that they can be somehow piled up for indefinite period of time in some return
10:39hubs with no fundamental rights and with no binding legal considerations as to EU law. That's absolutely against
10:46the mandate of the European Union to respect international law, which includes humanitarian
10:52law, which includes human rights, as a first condition of EU external action and foreign policy.
10:59And the European Union, of course, fancies itself as a cheerleader of fundamental rights. Let me stop
11:04you there, as we are just getting warmed up here.
11:10Now it is time for our viewers to get a real flavour of the European Parliament's chamber where MEPs
11:15ask questions directly to each other and sometimes it gets heated. So I would like to start with ladies
11:20first. Léna Dupont, you can address your very first question to Juan López Aguilar.
11:24Yes, for example, how do you actually get that together, that if Spain is going on such a huge
11:30regularisation programme that it will have repercussions for the rest of the European Union,
11:35and then at the same time say we're looking for European solutions here?
11:38First of all, what Spain has done is not unprecedented. Many member states have resorted
11:42to regularisation. And have been criticised for that.
11:44And governments of different political colours have also resorted to regularisation.
11:47And have been criticised for that.
11:49It's a positive approach. Rightly so.
11:50Everyone, everyone is agreeing on that Spain is now the locomotive, the number one locomotive when it
11:59comes to economic growth and job creation precisely because it has an alternative positive view to
12:06migration as opposed to the negative approach which is the predominant, which is the prevailing site
12:12to migration and contaminates not only migrants but also asylum seekers. So the thing is that when you
12:19have a positive approach to migration, when you give the chance to those who are already staying on
12:25Spanish soil and Spanish territory, and you give the chance to regularise, you're enhancing not only
12:31their human rights but also the economy and job creation in Spain.
12:36Are you satisfied with that answer or would you like a follow-up?
12:39Well, it just basically creates another pull factor into the European Union.
12:43Quick reaction?
12:43And the Saxon thing.
12:44Does that not create a pull factor?
12:45For me it's more or less a sign of an overstretched capacity if you need to
12:49regularise things because you're not able to conclude procedures as such.
12:52I've been involved in migration debates for so long and of course I understand it's a divisive
12:57issue. But having said this, there is nothing in the right and conservative rhetoric that does not
13:04lead to pull factor. Everything is pull factor to the negative approach to migration. When you treat
13:11them as human beings, that's pull factor. When you regularise them, that's pull factor. When you
13:17incorporate into the job market, that's pull factor. Apparently the only answer would be expelling
13:23them out or having them out of our side, whatever the cost, whatever it takes. And of course that
13:29leads to an utter contradiction with the values and the EU law which you should be standing for.
13:35Juan Fernando Lopez, your opportunity now to address the question to Lena Dupont.
13:38Lena, I've known you for years. Are you happy that actually this return regulation was adopted by the
13:47EPP with the far right? I can picture the far right standing up in a standing ovation to themselves,
13:53happy of what they did. Are you happy with that legalisation of the Meloni practices, of externalising the
14:01migration management, of giving the third countries the chance to pile migrants and asylum seekers all
14:09together in indefinite time only for the sake of reassuring the member states that we will be somehow
14:16countering back the numbers of migrants which keep knocking on doors? So three words. Are you happy?
14:22Well, of course, as you can say, it was a difficult decision. When we see that only one in five
14:29returnees, only 20% of those who do not have a right to stay within the European Union are still
14:34staying in the European Union. And it was always integral part to the pact because on the one side
14:39of the medal, you have the protection of those who are in need and granted protection. In the midst of
14:46the medal, you have the solidarity of the European Union taking care of responsibility and solidarity
14:51together. And on the other side of that coin, you have the return policies because the ones who do not
14:56have a right to stay within the European Union. And this is not against a positive approach to
15:01migration or a treatment as non-humanitarian. This is just the simple following our own rules,
15:08which has always been part of the pact, basically. And you know that because when we started negotiation
15:12on the pact, there were 12 regulations in there. And just because I'm aware you haven't answered the
15:16question. So I think you want to ask a follow up. Let me make one point clear. Yes, the rate
15:21of
15:22returnees is low, but it's because of the lack of an architecture, diplomatic architecture of
15:27agreements being negotiated with third countries by the European Union in all, which has got a single
15:33legal personality. And of course, those returns should be dignified, consistent with the fundamental
15:39rights and human rights involved and preferably voluntary. Okay, we've heard from our MEPs. Now it's
15:45time to bring in a new argument to this discussion. I would like to bring in the voice of Eve
15:53Getty,
15:54director of Amnesty International's EU office. She said that this vote marks a growing trend towards
16:00increasingly harmful, exclusionary and draconian policies on migration, with worrying repercussions
16:06for due process and evidence-based policymaking. Far from reducing irregularity, these proposals risk
16:12trapping more people in precarious situations. Lena Dupont, that is the concerns that NGOs are
16:17having. Well, again, we are speaking about a process that has been followed through from the asylum
16:23application onwards to the rejection of the asylum claim and forward to the return procedure. So it's
16:30it's not like we are just basically rejecting people on unfounded base. But again, it's in the pact itself.
16:37It is said that effective protection needs to be there. And this is a not only a moral obligation,
16:45but it's also a treaty obligation, a law obligation for every member state of the European Union. And
16:50this is the principle of everything that can be done under the arrangements or agreements.
16:55And we've heard from Charlie Weimers, that's the Swedish negotiator from the right wing party,
16:59the European conservatives and reformers hailing this as the new consensus
17:03in Europe, chanting the new era of deportations has begun. This is why NGOs are so concerned.
17:09Juan Fernando, I reject that kind of a rhetoric for sure. And I agree with the concerns that have
17:15been expressed by NGOs as to the flaws of this new policy and legislation that the European Union is
17:22putting in place with the cooperation of the right with the far right. It is the contrary. The thing is
17:26that
17:27for member states to have agreements with third countries, it deters the very possibility of
17:35the European Union deploying a diplomacy in itself. And it should be the European Union negotiating with
17:41countries of transit and origin so that that cooperation with countries of transit at origin would
17:49have as a result first giving opportunities for people to stay where they are born instead of doing
17:55whatever, even resorting to human trafficking and international criminal organizations to make
18:01it to the European Union. But once they are in the European Union, I insist they are human beings and
18:07they are subject to the Charter of Fundamental Rights, which protects not only European citizens,
18:12citizens, but all human beings under EU law. And they have been applied EU law, they have been implemented
18:19EU law in the worst scenario, in the worst possibility you might think of, which is precisely that
18:26member states are now legalizing those practices with third countries with no legally binding agreements,
18:34whatever. No, no legally binding agreements, just some kind of a deal suffices to keep human beings out of the
18:43European Union without human rights considerations. Just let me also from my understanding, because I fully
18:48agree with you on the point of the diplomacy, actually. And I fully agree also with you on the on
18:55the
18:55redemption of that language, because we're speaking about human beings. Whatever we did with the asylum and
19:01migration pact, again returns being integral part of it, we're speaking about human beings. So this is the
19:07first thing. Second thing, I agree with you on the migration diplomacy. But if now member states, together
19:11with the European Commission, or bilaterally, trilaterally, are actually implementing those treaties and
19:17corporations that you called for with the migration diplomacy, then how can it be bad? Because it is based
19:24on treaties and agreements and arrangements that are not only enforceable, but also are able to follow up.
19:30If we want to create more possibilities for people to stay in an area where they have a perspective,
19:36where they're close to their region, where they have safe and stable conditions,
19:41before making the route to the European Union, why shouldn't we do that?
19:45We've heard from our MEPs. Now it is time to take a short break here on The Ring,
19:49but we'll be back very soon with some more Political Punch.
20:00Welcome back to The Ring, URI News' weekly debate show broadcasting here from the Parliament in Brussels.
20:06I'm joined by the MEPs Juan Fernando López Aguiar and Lena Dupont. This week we're focusing on the topic of
20:12migration and the point of return hubs, and we wanted to share this data with you.
20:18480,000 people were ordered to leave the European Union each year, but only 20% or 25% are
20:25actually
20:25returned. And according to Eurostat in 2024, it was Germany, Spain, Italy and France that received
20:3270 to 75% of all EU asylum claims. And this comes as one million asylum cases are pending
20:39across the European Union. So why, Juan Fernando, do you think this is happening? What is causing these delays?
20:47Because you need arrangements, agreements, legally binding agreements with countries of origin,
20:53not with any country. Because if we didn't have these figures, you wouldn't need the return hubs.
20:56This return regulation lacks every meaningful link with the country of origin. It doesn't matter
21:03where do you belong, as long as there's someone willing to keep you out of our sight. Meaning
21:10that maybe some sub-Saharian Africa coming actually from, let's say, Mali or let's say,
21:18Ghana can be returned to whatever country, to Libya, to Morocco, to Tunisia, as long as the ruler is
21:28willing to have them. Is that fair? Of course not. What we need is a legal architecture with countries of
21:37origin, so that you make certain that you're actually returning someone to the country where
21:43that someone, that particular someone, where actually came from. But you, on the other hand,
21:47believe that the return hubs will increase efficiency and that by, in a couple of years,
21:51those figures will be very different. Well, first of all, again, return hubs is not the only thing
21:56that is in the return regulation as such. We are also speaking about member states streamlining
22:00their procedures, helping each other out with resources, taking European... Do you trust member states
22:06will do that? I mean... Well, member states are the ones asking for that. So I assume they will also
22:10then follow up on your own proposals and policies. Because implementation is always the big challenge
22:14here, right? One thing is promising something? Of course it is. Implementation is the devil in
22:19the detail. And we will also make sure politically that we will follow up from the European perspective
22:23on member states fulfilling their not only implementation, but really also then driving up
22:28what they have been asking for. But again, I mean, Juan, your idea, and to a certain extent I do
22:33subscribe to that, but that would have already worked in the current cases because there is the
22:38international obligation to take back your own national citizens. And this is what third countries
22:44are not doing in some cases. So we need a leverage. Of course it is to the best use if
22:48we do it together
22:48at European level. But we also know that member states have to do some links to third countries where
22:54they have a good cooperation already. And the last point actually on that, it's about... And this is the
22:59part of the agreement or the arrangement then to really put forward perspectives for the people there.
23:04So this is an integral part of the policy as such. Let me tell you something. I chaired the
23:09Committee of Liberal Justice and Home Affairs for 10 years, and I represented the European Parliament, the
23:13Council of Ministers of Interior. I heard them saying live, fly them to Rwanda. And my question was,
23:21why Rwanda? Because only do you think they're black, they're indistinct in Rwanda and whatever African country,
23:26no matter where they belong to. The thing is that we need actually to change our look, act more positively.
23:34And of course, exert European diplomacy to come to terms with countries of origin and, needless to say,
23:42transit too, so that agreements are binding in the legal way and consistent with EU law. Not any agreement would
23:53suffice.
23:54And this language, Lena Dupont, that we're hearing inside ministries meetings and used by politicians is
23:58having an impact on society. We've seen an increase in racist attack and xenophobic attacks in countries like Germany.
24:04Well, this was mainly because for far too long, actually, both at European level and also at a certain extent
24:09at national level, we tend to not address the concerns of the citizens. And there is an overstretch in capacities
24:17in almost all member states. And which is why it is so important that we have a distinction between
24:22asylum and migration, because the people you're addressing are completely different. The capacities,
24:29the structures you need are completely different. And I think that this is one of the starting points.
24:33And what people experienced in the past is that people felt the need that actually we had lost control.
24:39What we have been proposing here, both in the pact and with the mandate of the parliament on returns,
24:44is that we put forward a structured and ordered a humane way of organising asylum and migration.
24:51And it is now time for the fifth and the final round.
24:58So now it's time for something a little bit different. I'm going to be asking our MEPs just one question,
25:04and you can only answer yes or no. Okay, let's begin. Are current EU returns too slow? Yes or no?
25:12Yes. Yes or no? Yes. You both agree on that one. Should EU countries set up return hubs abroad? Yes
25:19or no?
25:20Yes. No. Yes or no? No. Very clear no. Is irregular migration a threat today to the European Union?
25:26Lena Dupont. Yes or no? Not as such. Yes or no? No, definitely not. It's a fact.
25:32And asylum is a right. But it needs to be in an ordered and structured way.
25:38Should rejected asylum seekers be returned to safe third countries? Yes or no? Yes. No.
25:44Should minors be exempt from return hubs? Yes or no? Yes. Okay. According to the mandate.
25:51Should the European Union prioritise efficiency over individual claims? Yes or no? Yes. No.
25:57Should Frontex have greater powers? Yes or no? In the returns process as such? Yes.
26:04It should have a mandate to cooperate better with third countries.
26:08Is the EU's migration commissioner doing a good job? Magnus Brunner. Yes or no? Yes.
26:16Well, well, well, well, well. I mean, it's not personal. But I can only be sorry to see that his
26:23proposals have been endorsed with standing ovation by the far right.
26:28Could the war in the Middle East trigger a new migration wave here in the European Union? Yes or no?
26:33We are monitoring very actively the situation in the region and we are prepared.
26:39Yes. Yes. And we shouldn't panic. We can handle it.
26:43Well, that was my next question. Is the European Union prepared for this scenario? Yes or no?
26:47Not in the current circumstances. Not in the current so-called relation of forces. But according to EU capacity, for
26:55sure it should.
26:56So we shouldn't panic. We can handle it as long as we do it according to EU values and EU
27:01law.
27:02What is of utmost importance is that we closely cooperate with our countries, our partner countries that we have in
27:08the region.
27:09Final question. Did you agree with anything you heard from Léna Dupont? Yes or no?
27:14Yes.
27:15And did you agree with anything you heard from Juan Fernando López Aguiar?
27:18Well, not with everything, but with anything, yes.
27:20Yeah. Well, we give a glimpse there of how you actually can meet compromises here in the European Parliament.
27:25Léna Dupont and Juan Fernando López Aguiar, thank you so much for joining us here on The Ring.
27:29And thank you so much for tuning in. You can write us your views or comments at thering at yournews
27:35.com.
27:36That is our email address. Take care and stay with us here on Euronews.
27:40Thank you.
27:41Thank you.
27:41Thank you.
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