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00:00Hi everyone, I'm Katie Campione, a senior TV and labor reporter with Deadline.
00:04Thank you for joining us for Deadline Contenders, Documentary and Unscripted.
00:09YouTube is quickly becoming one of the most, if not the most, powerful player in streaming.
00:14As of this year, it is routinely captivating more than 12% of all TV usage in the US,
00:20and its global reach is even greater. Today, we're highlighting six premium creator and
00:25producer-led series that showcase the breadth and ambition of the modern television format.
00:30Across hosted nonfiction, short-form comedy, and emotional reality storytelling,
00:34these series are making a compelling case for a new generation of Emmy-worthy television.
00:39Joining me, we have Sean Evans from Hot Ones, Brittany Broski of Royal Court, Michelle Carre,
00:46Challenge Accepted, Kareem Rama with Subway Takes, Julian Shapiro Barnum with Celebrity Substitute,
00:52and Cleo Abram with Huge If True.
00:55Thank you all for joining me today.
00:58Thanks for having us.
01:00Yeah, it's exciting. It's exciting. I wanted to start by just asking how you view YouTube
01:06in the TV landscape and yourselves and your own shows compared to studio series.
01:12Whoever thinks they have a good answer can jump in first.
01:16I'll start confidently.
01:18Definitely. You know, I went to theater school and like the dream was always very much to like go
01:25towards mainstream entertainment and like studio TV and film. And I think I started doing YouTube and
01:31yeah, online stuff as like a entry point to that. And I think, I don't know, somewhere along the way,
01:40I feel like YouTube caught up. And all of a sudden, I looked at what I was doing. And I
01:43went,
01:44oh, the thing that like I one day thought this would lead to is what I am doing right now.
01:49And I think I thought I might as well just like follow that and double down. And now I'm like
01:56making all the things I've ever wanted to make. And YouTube has allowed me to do that without
02:01meeting that without like meeting permission from like gatekeepers or studio. Like I am empowered to
02:07make these things on my own and like hire all the cool people I've always wanted to work with.
02:12And it's just been like a very amazing and empowering experience.
02:15Yeah. I mean, if you think about the bet that YouTube made compared to every other streamer,
02:22what they did is said, instead of a bunch of gatekeepers deciding what gets greenlit and how
02:28much you can spend on that and, you know, whether or not you get to do it again, they said,
02:33if we make
02:34tools that everybody around the world can use to make what they have in their mind come true,
02:38and we come up with ways where big or small, those pieces of creative work can find audiences that
02:45want to watch them. That's actually going to be the best way to make the best stuff that people want
02:51to watch the most. And the fact that YouTube is now the largest streaming platform and that bet was
02:58true is such a cool thing about creative people all around the world. Like all of our shows reflect
03:04what we wanted to see that didn't exist in the world. And now we get to make it in exactly
03:09the
03:09way that we want. And I'll speak for myself. The best part by far is to see that hundreds of
03:15millions
03:15of people also want that thing. That's just an unbelievable feeling. And I think when I look
03:21around and I look at this moment in media, the fact that the best way to make the best stuff
03:27is to let
03:28anyone make what they want to make and see who wants to watch it is an extreme, it's just a,
03:33it's just an amazing thing that has become true. And I think we all reflect that in our own ways.
03:40I think there's a beautiful power of on both sides. It's free. It's free to upload. It's free to watch.
03:49Everything is behind a paywall. And I think a major reason that a lot of our shows took off the
03:55way that
03:55they did is because it's free to watch. I'm not begging you to pay a subscription fee and do all
04:00that. Just click on it. That's all you got to do. We've done the hard part, you know, make it
04:05as easy
04:05as you can for the viewer. So that's another thing that YouTube does very, very uniquely.
04:10I think the next or this generation of people consider, I mean, YouTube is TV to them. Like when
04:18a kid comes home and turns on TV, they're literally watching YouTube. And as far as I'm concerned,
04:25there's not really a difference between turning on a different streamer or turning on YouTube.
04:30There's not really a difference in terms of where you watch it, whether it's on your phone or on your
04:35computer or on your actual television. I think this cohort of creators, the one thing that I guess
04:42would set us apart from many others is the kind of TV quality production that goes into each of our
04:48shows. You know, none of us are just showing up and doing a thing. Like it comes with pre-production.
04:54It comes with post-production. It comes with regular production. It comes with a lot of money and
04:58resources and teams and people and it's television. It's just independent.
05:04Yeah. And to build on that point, you know, I think that if you look at the cultural penetration
05:09that these shows have the caliber of guests that they book, and then just the eyeballs to eyeballs
05:15ratings. And also to your point, like when I watch YouTube, I watched on the TV behind me and I
05:20just
05:20click an icon app just as I would for any other streaming service. And again, the production
05:26landscape has been flattened in a way where it all looks like TV too. So I think like the, the
05:31lines
05:32and the areas of distinction that have long been drawn are just kind of arbitrary. And then the longer
05:38this goes on more like self-evidently ridiculous, you know? So I think there really is no distinction.
05:44There's been a lot of crossover too, from people who've gone to YouTube and had success in a more
05:48like mainstream traditional network setting. So I just think it's like all the same thing now.
05:53Yeah, I completely agree with everyone and Sean and Kareem, what you guys are saying about
05:58the lines between our worlds are continually blurring, which is really exciting. And, you know,
06:03when I look at the call sheet for an episode of Challenge Accepted or any of the call sheets of
06:08the shows here for Challenge Accepted, at least, you know, our plane stunt recreating the Mission
06:13Impossible stunt can have up to 50 people on that cast and crew. And just by looking at a call
06:19sheet
06:19alone, it's hard to differentiate the values and the, the styles of production that we all follow.
06:27But at the same time, I think the benefit that we have with the democratization of storytelling and
06:32the only barrier to entry being the upload button is that there's a level of authenticity that comes
06:38with all of the shows that you see here. All of our shows are filmed on beautiful cameras. We have
06:42incredible teams working together. But at the end of the day, if I want to include a specific scene,
06:49or if Brittany wants to ask a specific question of her guest, she doesn't have to go through 20 layers
06:54of people in suits to get that done. She can simply ask her guest. And I think that that's why
07:01people
07:01connect even more deeply and data-wise continue to return to YouTube.
07:07Yeah. To all of your points, I mean, every other panel that we have at Contenders represents a show
07:11that someone at a network or a studio or a streamer said yes to. And you, none of your shows
07:17exist
07:17because of that. And I'm curious for you where you found the intersection lies between creative vision
07:23and just sheer will to get, to build what you have on your platforms.
07:29I kind of found, at least for Royal Court, it came from a place of, I am such an obnoxious
07:37fangirl
07:37to my core of the things that I love. And I have grown up on YouTube. I grew up on
07:42Tumblr,
07:42on these websites that it's just like, I knew where every member of One Direction was born,
07:47like that kind of shit. There is such a deep-rooted need and, I guess, desire for
07:55information about celebrities if you're in stan culture, where if you're like me, you've seen
08:00every interview of these people. We were desiring something new. So for me, creating Royal Court,
08:07that was the kind of crux of the whole gig, is like, I want to ask questions I want to
08:13ask them
08:13before. I want to create funny moments where we can banter back and forth. It's not dependent on,
08:18you know, but we have to come back to this serious answer or we have to really get these talking
08:22points. Who gives a shit? I really want to establish a moment of connection with the guest
08:27because we're living in a post-COVID world where people crave connection and they crave authenticity.
08:33So that's, at least in my case, I kind of found this void in the space of like celebrity interviews
08:42and I wanted to fix it in the way that I thought would connect with me and people like me,
08:47which is
08:48obnoxious fangirls. I couldn't agree more. I think one thing that you'll probably find in common with
08:54all of us is we're making the show that we wanted to watch. And that, I think, is an incredibly
08:59powerful
09:00thing. For me, I was a technology journalist and I really wanted to watch a show that was all about
09:05who's the people building the best version of the future that I can get excited about and I can
09:11understand from an absolute novice level all the way up to pretty cutting-edge physics or engineering
09:17and participate in making the future better. Like, where was the show that was going to help me do
09:22that? I grew up watching Star Trek. Like, I want the equivalent for science journalism. And so now I'm making
09:28this show that's
09:30optimistic, cinematic, rigorous science journalism. And the only place that that is really possible,
09:37in my opinion, is on YouTube. The way that we can make our show with the incredible investment in that
09:43production, the rigor and the optimism, this very particular mission that we had that we wanted to
09:51see that, frankly, was me saying like, hey, I don't see this show anywhere. I really want to watch this
09:58show.
09:58Do other people want to watch this show? And then having that come true. And so I think at the
10:04end of
10:04the day, we're all making the TV shows that we wanted to watch. And you can't be a person looking
10:12at media right now and not look at Hot Ones and think, wow, that's one of the best talk shows
10:17I've
10:17ever seen. Same for Royal Court. You can't be looking around and say like, I love TV where people push
10:25themselves. Challenge accepted is the best of that category. Like, there's just no way to watch
10:30television and not think that that's true. And so I think that this is a moment where we're,
10:35it's already true. And so we're just excited that the audience recognizes that. And I think we're just
10:42really excited to celebrate each other. A way that YouTube was like, the perfect place for us testing
10:48and creating and trying just with Celebrity Substitute specifically was we had so much, I don't know,
10:52just in like making a show, we weren't sure what was going to work. And like, even going into season
10:56three, which we're filming right now, we are still kind of figuring out what works. And like,
11:00in terms of episode lengths, like we have episodes of that show that are six minutes. We also have
11:04episodes of that show that are half an hour. Like, in terms of the different components of every
11:10episode, like we very much were and are testing and figuring out like what the show is always and in
11:20real
11:20time. And like being able to ideate and like figure out what people like and don't like and
11:25like not have to commit to one version of the show and then stick to that, I think has been
11:34like instrumental to the show's success. Just because like our first idea was not the best idea.
11:40And I'm like really happy that we didn't have to stick with that for the whole season.
11:44I would agree with that. Right? Like it always gets better. And like in season one of Celebrity
11:51Substitute, we aired the first two episodes we shot as the second to last and third to last episodes
12:00because we like completely spent time re-editing them. And like, we did some reshoots of me, like,
12:06you know, introducing stuff because we just didn't know what we were doing. And if this was like a
12:11network show or a streamer show, I just, we wouldn't have the freedom or luxury to be able
12:15to do something like that. So yeah, that, that, that was a pretty important part of our YouTube
12:21process. I wanted to piggyback off of that with, you know, kind of a follow-up of, because between
12:26the six of you, you all either own or co-own what you've made, which I think goes to this
12:30point,
12:30Julian, you're making about having that creative freedom. And I'm curious how having such a close
12:36connection to the work and actually owning it has changed, you know, the, the way you're willing
12:41to make it and, and the way you view it. Well, ever since day one, like I wanted Subway Takes
12:46to be
12:47a talk show for the people. Right. And, and obviously that's changed a little bit because
12:52we have a celebrity on once every 15 to 20 episodes, but the majority of episodes are still
12:57everyday New Yorkers and giving a platform to everyone that has a great take or something to say.
13:05And, you know, it's really, it would have been really easy to take notes from the network,
13:10which is like, put more celebrities on bigger names, bigger names, bigger names. And for me,
13:16as, as the, I mean, I book the show still, like you might run into me at a, in a
13:20bathroom and be
13:22like, Hey, I have a take. And I might be like, what is it? And then say, great, you're on
13:26the show.
13:26Like I literally book people like all the time like that. So to be able to resist kind of the
13:33network notes of like, get bigger names, who's bigger talent, and to be able to say no to anyone
13:38and yes to anyone, whether that be like a janitor or a guy that's just riding the subway or Austin
13:45Butler, Ethan Hawke. Like it's, it's an amazing feeling to be able to, to just have the autonomy
13:51to continue to maintain the DNA of the show, which is that it is a show for the people and
13:58a show of
13:59the people that reminds me of like when Letterman used to book normal people or Johnny Carson, even
14:03like there was a time where television, you could see yourself on television. And we've gone further
14:09and further away from that as the industry has become more and more talent dependent and celebrity
14:14driven. So I just, I just feel like it's, it's one of those things where I don't know if I
14:19could
14:19continue to do it like this, if it were on a network, because inevitably everybody wants more
14:25reach. Everybody wants bigger names. Everybody thinks that that's going to move the needle.
14:30Even if it doesn't always do that.
14:32I personally believe, and maybe you guys could agree with your shows too, that I don't think
14:37Challenge Accepted would have been greenlit by a traditional studio, just because our production
14:42process is so specific and unique. We have episodes that can sometimes take 18 months into,
14:49and to produce others one month. And the reason for that is because I want the story to be the
14:56driving narrative that, you know, if I want to go study Taekwondo for 90 days, yes, I'm going to
15:02commit myself for 90 days to that thing. And that is what makes it unique. And it's antithetical,
15:08I think, to the rigid structure that traditional television often wants to put shows in just from
15:13a practical perspective. I like being able to tell impractical stories, because those are the ones
15:19that are unique and stand out.
15:22I'm curious, what was the moment each of you knew that you had kind of cracked a format that opened
15:28you up to something that traditional television might not have been able to manufacture?
15:31I think my first, my first sense that we were doing something insane was, it was like very early
15:39on in the show, that was like in the Machine Gun Kelly episode, it was like the third shoot we've
15:45ever done. And he was doing laps around the studio and climbing up on the table and screaming and crying
15:52and doing all the things that we've now have like a whole, that we have like a whole montage of
15:57hot
15:57ones moments, but it was happening there. And I was like, while it was happening, I'm like, wow,
16:00I've never seen anything quite like this ever in my life. And if something's going completely off
16:05the rails in the studio, you know that it's going to translate to video in a way that makes it
16:09seem
16:09even crazier. So at that point, I knew that we were making something that had never been made
16:15before. I didn't know the extent to which that would be like repeatable over time either. But I
16:19just, in the moment, it was such a spectacle that I was like, wow, I can't wait for people to
16:23see
16:24this. But to the point that Michelle was making too, it's like, you know, in this, you can tailor
16:29any story or whatever when you have that kind of thing. Like in the beginning for us, hot ones was
16:33not a big hit out of the gate. So I always think like, if it would have started anyplace else
16:37or
16:37had any other kind of origin story, like it would have gotten canceled before it ever reached its
16:41third season. So there is that grace period that you have where like the failure is all your own and
16:47you own it. And in that experimentation develops the final form for the thing that you're going to end
16:53up making for years and years after that. So that's, that's, that's the moment that stands out to me.
16:58We had a moment where we kind of a similar thing. We had filmed maybe three, four episodes and we
17:04started it, you know, in a realm that was both familiar and I guess controllable, um, of internet
17:11people. Like I had on Hassan Piker, I had on Ludwig, I had streamers who, you know, I found were
17:17funny
17:18and culturally, culturally relevant. Um, along with like my friends, you know, I had a few of my friends
17:23coming beyond, but that runs out real quick. So you start reaching out to people. And we had, um,
17:29after those few episodes came out, Daisy Edgar Jones. And I remember being like, she knows who I
17:34am. And she came on the show and she had a great time. And after that we booked Charlie XCX.
17:39And it
17:39was just this kind of, you know, it catches momentum and it started to build. And I was like,
17:43we may have done something here. Cause I was just kind of throwing shit at the wall and seeing what
17:47would stick. But I believed in the idea of like, I just want to have fun. You know, if, if
17:53all this
17:53ends up being, and I never, I was shooting for the moon, I knew that we were going to eventually
17:58get
17:59it to a place where we were booking a list S tier celebrities, but you have to start somewhere. And
18:04it picked up way quicker than I ever could have imagined. And it's because I think timing is
18:09everything. Like I had already established kind of a back catalog of, I had a podcast and I was making
18:15YouTube videos and I was doing all these things. So there was some familiarity. Then you launched
18:19this project and yeah, that was kind of a, this snowball that kept getting bigger and then it
18:24exponentially grew. So yeah, it's insane. Once you get that, they know who I am. They want to come
18:30on the show. Are you sure? Yeah. It's special. Sean made me think of this, but like the first episode
18:36we filmed Celebrity Substitute, like it was just so magic having somebody teach at a, like we filmed,
18:42like we filmed the show during a real day of school at a public school. Like there, there are bells
18:49ringing, there are kids walking around the halls and we have like ASAP Rocky, like walking around
18:54a public school. Like it is so magic. And like that magic was there from the first episode.
19:00The trick was like, like I felt it, but I feel like it took a really long time to figure
19:05out how to
19:06like film it and capture it. Like, I feel like it, like that was the tricky part. Like the idea
19:13was
19:13there. The premise was there. Um, but kind of like what you were saying, Sean, where it was like, you
19:19saw
19:19it, but I felt like I couldn't figure out how to show it when I saw for a really long
19:24time. But I do
19:25feel like recently we've been able to really show the magic, which has been really rewarding.
19:30I have a one last rapid fire question. I'm hoping all of you can answer if voters could only watch
19:36one episode of your show this season to get a taste of what it's all about. What would your
19:41first recommendation be? I would say, uh, watch the Conan O'Brien episode or the Gordon Ramsey
19:48episode. If you liked those episodes, if you like it, you think what you're watching is interesting.
19:53You might like the show. If you don't like those episodes, you can stop right there. There's nothing
19:57here for you. Yeah, I would say, uh, David Cornswit. He was a, he pleasantly shocked all
20:06of us. Uh, Coleman Domingo would probably be another one. And, um, yeah, Daisy Edgar Jones.
20:13She just has a, she really leaned in. And I think that's the magic with all of our shows
20:18is like, when you lean in, that's when you get the good stuff. Don't act like you're better
20:23than it. Don't act like you're too cool for it. Like have fun. That's the point.
20:27So yeah, I, I would say those would probably be my three.
20:31Yeah. I'll go with, uh, episode 644. And it does, it's like regular people, but it ends
20:39up becoming this thing where there's multiple people on the train that are chiming in and
20:43then submitting their takes. And then it becomes this insane and there's people dancing and
20:47doing showtime on the subway and a mariachi band. It's really shows the, the, the, the
20:54difficulty of shooting subway takes on an actual train with real people. And the, the Woody
21:00Harrelson episode is, is, is more of a celebrity driven one where the same thing happens. And
21:04he gets really excited and starts interviewing other people, essentially stealing my job.
21:09And it's just, it's, it's chaos the whole time, but it's really fun to watch and kind of see how
21:14the train really equalizes everyone and makes you, makes you crazy.
21:19For challenge accepted, I would toss out, um, the recent series we did where I ran
21:25seven marathons on all seven continents in one single week. And I think that this series of episodes
21:34is special and unique in that it was a project that's never been captured in long form documentary
21:41ever before by a network or by anyone. Um, and additionally, I think what surprises a lot of
21:47people when they watch it is you hear something like that and you expect that everyone who does
21:51it is going to be a professional runner. And there are a few, but in fact, it's quite the opposite.
21:57You have people, we get to meet 83 year old Dan Little, who has run this race four times. Um,
22:05there are people who have run their very first marathon as the first of the seven of this week. Um,
22:11and I think it's like many of the shows here, something you don't expect from YouTube is this level
22:18of quality caliber and attention to detail and everything. Um, so I'm really grateful that we're all putting
22:25ourselves out there for primetime Emmys. Either the Kehlani episode or the ASAP Rocky episode,
22:32they just were like their parents. Like they were just so unbelievably sweet with the kids. And like,
22:37we also like wrote an original song and like shot a music video and just, they went above and beyond.
22:43So those are really, really special episodes. I recommend them. For me, for huge, if true,
22:47I would say the asteroids episode. We explored what would happen if an asteroid really were headed
22:53for earth and we visited a observatory that is detecting near earth asteroids. So there are
22:58scientists staying up all night, every night, looking for asteroids that could hit us. And we
23:02got to stay up with them and we actually discovered a near earth asteroid. And it was really exciting,
23:06but even more than that, we played out a hypothetical scenario in which an asteroid really were coming.
23:14And we interviewed all of the world leading experts on the real plan for what we do step-by-step,
23:18if that were happening. And it's just this incredible story of human ingenuity and humans being the first
23:26species that could actually do something about that and exactly what and how and imagining that it were
23:32happening was a new level for our show. And I think explores what this genre of science journalism
23:39can be. It's part hypothetical journalism and part field shoot and part deeply, deeply researched
23:50science journalism. And I'm just so proud of it. I'm so proud of my team. I'm so proud of the
23:55work
23:55that we're all doing on this panel. I just, it's a really exciting time in media and I'm really proud
24:00to be a YouTuber. You all picked really great episodes. Those are some of my favorites of each of
24:04yours. Um, thank you so, so much for being here and for chatting with me. I really appreciate it.
24:10Thank you so much. Thank you so much. That was awesome.
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