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Rip Off Britain - Season 18 Episode 1 - Home Improvement Company Lies Cost Me Thousands
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00:00Today, the 95-year-old who's still shaken after her brush with the home improvement company that took her money
00:07and never returned.
00:08It was heart-wrenching and horrific to hear that my 95-year-old mother had been put into a van
00:17and taken to the bank to withdraw £1,800.
00:21Plus, never-ending terms and conditions.
00:24With one holiday company's T's and C's running to more than 13,000 words, we reveal how AI can help
00:31you navigate the unnavigable.
00:34Always looking out for you. This is Ripoff Britain.
00:45Hello and welcome to Ripoff Britain and our HQ in Salford.
00:49Now, this is a team that always has your back when you think that you've been treated unfairly and just
00:55can't get any resolution.
00:57Including today, the holiday cover that stood next to no chance of paying out.
01:01When Beverly from Lincoln came to her advice clinic, she'd been refused the payout because the snow and ice that
01:07forced her to cancel her trip weren't extreme enough for the insurer.
01:11She said, you're not covered. You could make a claim, but she said it will be rejected.
01:18Also today, the disabled driver chased by debt collectors for a parking charge that should never have been issued.
01:25And how can you find a tradesperson you can trust?
01:29We've put together a handy how-to guide to help you avoid the likes of the firm at the heart
01:34of our first film today.
01:35That's absolutely right, because when 95-year-old Edna from Manchester picked up the phone to a cold caller last
01:43March,
01:44it was the caller's opening salvo that drew her in.
01:47Now, she says they claim to be associated with Age UK, after which any scepticism Edna might have had disappeared.
01:55However, that was a lie which, as we're about to find out, had the most serious consequences.
02:10PHONE RINGS
02:11PHONE RINGS
02:14Hello?
02:15In March 2025, retired cafe owner Edna Jones from Farnworth in Greater Manchester received a call out of the blue.
02:24I got this phone call, and it just said about Age UK, and did I want any maintenance doing?
02:31It's awesome. I could do with a gardener.
02:34Edna normally gives cold callers the cold shoulder.
02:38I'd put the phone down, really, which I normally do if I get a funny phone call.
02:42But, she says, the mention of Age UK kept her on the phone, especially because of her direct connection with
02:50the charity.
02:51I go to Age UK every week, dancing. There'd been a volunteer there, and I just thought, well, if it's
02:58Age UK, it'll be all above board, like, you know.
03:01If the answer said Age UK in the beginning, I wouldn't have been interested, really.
03:07Edna says the caller told her they could put her in touch with a local company called Primestone Homes,
03:13not to be confused with companies of a similar name, which would be able to complete the garden maintenance work
03:18that she was after.
03:20And, after a second call, Edna says she agreed for the firm to carry out a survey the following Saturday.
03:26At first, all went as she expected.
03:28This couple came, and he went round the garden, telling what everything wanted doing,
03:34and she were writing it all down on a paper, like, you know.
03:37After around an hour, Edna says the pair came inside and gave her a quote.
03:43The price was a hefty £3,750, but that would include clearing overgrown trees and bushes,
03:51repairing a fence, replacing decking, and two maintenance visits a year.
03:57Compared with what I paid other things in the garden, I think it seemed pretty reasonable.
04:02So, I was quite happy about it.
04:07Edna says she was told the company would need half the money there and then.
04:12I said, well, I haven't got that sort of money here, like, you know, I have to go to the
04:16bank.
04:17So then they said, well, we'll take you in the van.
04:22I thought, well, it'll save me a journey another time.
04:25And with them saying, like, they would officially come from Age UK,
04:31I was just happy about everything.
04:35But the bank was closed.
04:37So, back at home, Edna agreed to pay the £1,875 by cheque instead.
04:46The couple left, telling Edna they'd be back the following Wednesday
04:50and someone would be in touch to confirm the details.
04:55Edna mentioned all this to her daughter, Karen, when they spoke the following day.
05:00But by Wednesday morning, she says there'd been no further contact.
05:04Mum had phoned me quite agitated that they hadn't called her on the Monday
05:09or turned up on the Wednesday like they'd promised.
05:12So, Karen picked up the baton on her mum's behalf.
05:15She called Primestone and was told the company had tried to call Edna
05:19on both Monday and Tuesday, but Karen was sceptical.
05:23She had been in all day on the Tuesday
05:25and no messages had been left on her answering machine,
05:28so they hadn't tried to contact her.
05:30Primestone promised to attend in eight days' time,
05:33saying it was fully booked until then.
05:35But after speaking to the company,
05:37Karen was starting to have serious doubts about its credentials.
05:42Just with their mannerism, with their tone of voice,
05:46they came across quite unprofessional.
05:49And when I did come off the phone, I thought,
05:51hmm, I'm going to just take a look at this company,
05:54read the reviews, try and dig a little bit deeper into them.
05:58Karen found a litany of negative reviews,
06:02some of which made serious allegations about the company's conduct.
06:06At this stage, alarm bells were massively ringing in my head,
06:11that obviously something was desperately wrong
06:13and that measures needed to be taken.
06:16I began to think that the people who had come to visit
06:19and who I was speaking to that morning were unconnected to Age UK.
06:25Karen called the charity's Bolton branch
06:27and it bore out her misgivings.
06:29Age UK Bolton does not recommend or endorse
06:33individual contractors or firms
06:35and we have not authorised anyone to make contact
06:38on our behalf for this type of service.
06:43Obviously, then, that confirmed to me my worst fears,
06:47that Mum had been duped.
06:49Karen reported what had happened to the police and action fraud
06:53and, in desperation, she alerted Edna's bank
06:56in the hope that the cheque, written six days earlier,
06:59could be cancelled.
07:00With Edna at her side to recount what happened,
07:04it was only then that Karen discovered
07:06that Edna had been taken in a van
07:08in an attempt to withdraw the cash.
07:11I was hearing it for the first time
07:13as I'm relaying it to the fraud team
07:16and it was taking all my effort not to cry
07:22because it was heart-wrenching and horrific
07:25to hear that my 95-year-old mother
07:29had been put into a van and taken to the bank
07:32to withdraw £1,800.
07:36It was too late.
07:37The bank told Karen the cheque had already cleared.
07:41Karen called Primestone to demand a refund
07:43but after initially promising Edna would get her money back,
07:47the company backtracked, blaming financial difficulties.
07:51It left me feeling very frustrated, very let down,
07:55very sad for Mum because the longer this went on,
07:59the more apparent it was that we were never going to get
08:02this deposit refund back for her.
08:06The whole experience has taken an emotional toll on the family.
08:11It's a lot of money to lose and 10 minutes I've worked all my life
08:15and I've never had much, so it just, it hurt really.
08:20I'm sorry.
08:21Don't be sorry, Mum.
08:23None of this is your fault.
08:24None of this is your fault, none of it.
08:26Well, it is in a way because I trusted them, didn't I?
08:30Probably that's my trouble.
08:36We'll not let them beat us, Mum.
08:38We'll not let them beat us.
08:47Well, what an incredibly upsetting story
08:50and I'm very pleased to say that Edna and Karen
08:53are here with us in HQ along with solicitor Denise Nurse
08:57and our producer Dave Quinn.
08:59And Edna, we could see from the film
09:02that this has had a huge impact on you
09:05and I'm just wondering how you are now.
09:07Well, I'm getting over it a bit now, like, you know,
09:10but I still feel cheated.
09:13I'm frightened of answering the phone
09:15in case something like that happens again.
09:17I can well understand that.
09:19Karen, have you managed to get any further
09:21with getting the money back?
09:23No, to this date, and it's been almost 12 months now
09:27and we've not received any money back.
09:29Well, let's hope that between them,
09:31Denise and Dave can give you some information that might help.
09:34And Dave, I know you've been looking into Primestone Homes.
09:37What have you found?
09:38Well, the first thing we can say about Primestone Homes
09:41is it's no longer trading,
09:42but we do know that Companies House
09:44have been having a look into their activities.
09:46So Companies House went through a process
09:49of looking to strike them off their register completely,
09:51but actually just shortly after that,
09:54they decided to suspend it
09:55and that process is on hold at the moment.
09:57One other thing we can say is that
09:59Primestone Homes haven't filed their accounts in time,
10:01so that's another reason why it's a sort of a red flag
10:04for some of the activity
10:05that this company's been going through.
10:07And Denise, can you perhaps enlarge on that
10:10from the legal point of view
10:11and explain what that means for Edna's chances
10:13of getting her money back?
10:15Yes, absolutely.
10:16The company is like a legal entity in itself
10:20and if it gets struck off the register,
10:22it would no longer exist.
10:24The good news, I think, from this
10:27is that that's been suspended.
10:28So right now, it does exist
10:31and that means you could put a claim
10:33in through the Small Claims Court
10:34to recover your money.
10:35Unfortunately, I have to say,
10:37this situation looks like a company
10:39that's been in a bit of trouble,
10:41so the possibility that there's any money there
10:44to recover, we don't know.
10:45But you have that right.
10:46You've paid money.
10:47You can ask for that back now
10:49because there's been a breach of contract.
10:51But wouldn't that cost me more
10:52than what they actually owe Mum in the first place
10:54to be able to do that,
10:56to take them to Small Claims?
10:57Well, not necessarily.
10:58Actually, the court fees can be quite low
11:01and it's set up as a system
11:02that you can do this yourself
11:04and put all the information and evidence in.
11:06You can use the details
11:07that you've got on Companies House,
11:09the address that's listed there,
11:10put in the details online
11:12and do it online.
11:13It's a money claim online.
11:14Ah, right.
11:15OK, that's helpful.
11:17Taking the case to the Small Claims Court
11:19would cost Karen and Edna £115.
11:23If successful,
11:24that would land the company
11:25with a CCJ,
11:26a county court judgment,
11:28which could be enforced by bailiffs
11:30if it went unpaid.
11:31And Denise says a CCJ would be useful
11:34even if Primestone Homes
11:35went into administration
11:36because it would add weight of evidence
11:38to any case they register with authorities
11:40which might be investigating the firm,
11:43such as trading standards.
11:45Dave, what else have you learned
11:46about this company?
11:47Well, this company's based
11:49in Bradford originally.
11:50So we spoke to Trading Standards
11:53in West Yorkshire.
11:54They confirmed that they have actually
11:56taken action on two cases in particular.
11:59We don't know the details of that,
12:00but we know that those have been investigated
12:02and they've took action against them.
12:04So, Edna, you're not alone.
12:06This company has been doing things
12:08to other people as well.
12:10How does that make you feel?
12:12I hope they've not gone through
12:13what I've gone through
12:14because it's very disheartening.
12:16Well, it's very generous-spirited of you
12:18to say you're upset for them.
12:20And Dave, I mean,
12:21this so-called link to Age UK,
12:24there isn't one, is there?
12:25Well, Age UK told us
12:27that it doesn't work
12:28with Primestone Homes at all
12:30on any level.
12:30And it also said,
12:32Edna, it was really sorry to hear
12:33what had happened to you.
12:34And I think the general advice would be
12:36if you are told by a company
12:38that contacts you
12:39that they work with a charity,
12:40it's worth definitely finding
12:42the number for that charity yourself,
12:44phoning them up and saying,
12:45is this true or not?
12:46And just being on your guard, really.
12:48Well, Edna, you're certainly not alone
12:50in being convinced by people
12:52who are not telling the truth.
12:53And Denise, pressure selling
12:55doesn't always feel aggressive, does it?
12:57The thing here is
12:58they are very clever
12:59and they took a lot of time
13:01to spend time with you, didn't they?
13:03In your home, looking at your garden
13:05and convincing you
13:06that they were friendly,
13:08convincing you that they worked
13:09with Age UK,
13:10who you believe in,
13:11who you trust.
13:13And so pressure selling
13:14can look like that sometimes.
13:16Picking on the things
13:17that you already trust,
13:18that you already believe in,
13:19and then doubling down on that.
13:21If someone is watching this
13:23and they might feel
13:25that they are in the same position
13:26that you were in,
13:27what would your advice be?
13:29Just double-check everything.
13:31It doesn't take two minutes
13:32just to pick up the telephone,
13:34double-check the details
13:36that somebody's given you,
13:37or even to go online
13:38and just Google the company name,
13:42the director's name.
13:43Are they actually real people
13:45with a real business?
13:46Just ask questions
13:48before you actually
13:49hand over any money.
13:51But the last thing Edna expected
13:53when all this started
13:55was to have to do homework
13:56on people who'd won her trust.
13:59I've learned from it,
14:00like, you know,
14:01just hope everybody,
14:03you don't have to go through
14:04what I've gone through
14:06and just take care
14:08when you do answer the phone,
14:10you know.
14:11You're so brave
14:12to come in actually today
14:13and talk about this in public
14:15and we really,
14:16really appreciate it.
14:18Thank you both very much indeed
14:19and thank you Denise
14:20for all that wonderful advice
14:21and thanks for all the digging
14:23you did, Dave, too.
14:25We did, of course,
14:27speak to Primestone Homes
14:28about Edna's experience
14:30and it categorically denied
14:32that its representatives
14:33drove Edna to the bank
14:35to obtain payment
14:36or that it had ever claimed
14:38to be affiliated with
14:39or connected to Age UK.
14:42The company confirmed
14:44that it has now ceased trading
14:45following significant operational challenges
14:48and unforeseen and difficult circumstances.
14:52It stressed that any resulting delays
14:54or disruptions were unintentional
14:57and it regrets any distress
14:58that may have arisen.
15:02Meanwhile, following Denise's advice,
15:05Edna and Karen now plan
15:06to refer their case
15:07to the small claims court
15:09and, of course,
15:10we'll keep in touch
15:11with how they get on.
15:15Well, if all of that
15:16has left you wondering
15:18how you can find
15:18a trustworthy and reliable firm
15:20to do work on your home,
15:22here's consumer expert
15:23Harry Kind's
15:24how-to guide.
15:29Dreaming of a brand new
15:30kitchen extension
15:31but having trouble thinking
15:34over the burst pipe
15:35in your bathroom?
15:36I'm Harry Kind,
15:38the everyday expert
15:38and this is my guide
15:40on how to find
15:41a great tradesperson
15:42to help you out.
15:44Step one,
15:45where to look.
15:48The builder,
15:49majestic in their natural habitat
15:51of the calf.
15:52No, sorry,
15:53that's not right.
15:54In the 21st century,
15:55most people looking
15:56for a top-notch
15:57modern tradesperson
15:58will start online.
16:00Searching through
16:01trade review websites
16:02is a great place to start
16:03but take their ratings
16:05with a pinch of salt
16:06and always use
16:07multiple websites.
16:09Word of mouth
16:09is a powerful tool.
16:11Check online forums,
16:13Facebook groups,
16:14local neighborhood WhatsApps
16:16but make sure
16:17that you do your due diligence.
16:19Be wary of any pages
16:20that have started
16:20in just the last couple of months
16:22and if only one or two people
16:24are giving very positive
16:26comments on pages,
16:27it might just be
16:28their friends and family.
16:30Take the time now
16:32to fill your phone
16:33with great contractors.
16:34The last time
16:35you want to be searching
16:36for an emergency Sparky
16:38is at 2am
16:39on a Saturday night.
16:43When it comes to cold callers,
16:45be very, very wary.
16:47As we all know,
16:48there's a massive shortage
16:49of qualified
16:50and experienced contractors
16:51out there
16:52and so they're batting away
16:53jobs with a four-foot level.
16:54If they come cold calling,
16:56they're probably
16:57not the best in the business.
16:59Sorry.
17:00Step two,
17:01what to ask.
17:03Once you've found
17:04some candidates,
17:04it's question time.
17:06It can feel a bit un-British
17:07but now is the time
17:08to be demanding,
17:09not later.
17:10Here's some questions
17:11that you might want to ask.
17:31And if you think
17:32that's a lot of questions,
17:34you've got to ask
17:34those three times
17:35because you need
17:36to get at least
17:37three quotes.
17:38Make sure those quotes
17:40break down labour,
17:41materials and BAT.
17:43Step three,
17:45get building.
17:46You've found
17:47the perfect trader
17:47but before the shovels
17:49hit the ground,
17:50make sure you follow
17:51these steps.
17:52If it's a big job,
17:54make sure to get
17:54a full contract
17:55that lays out
17:56exactly what to expect
17:57and when.
17:59Templates can be found online.
18:00Even on smaller jobs,
18:02it pays to communicate
18:03as much in writing
18:04as possible.
18:05It might be something
18:06that you rely on later
18:08to resolve disputes.
18:09The only upfront payment
18:10you should make
18:11is for materials
18:12and even then,
18:13many contractors
18:13have credit accounts
18:15with their suppliers.
18:17And if possible,
18:19pay by card.
18:20That gives you
18:20that powerful
18:21Section 75 protection
18:22via credit card
18:23and charge back
18:24with debit cards
18:25if something does go wrong.
18:27It may seem a bit
18:28out of place
18:28to have a card reader
18:29on a building site
18:30but if you go
18:31into any builder's merchants,
18:32you're constantly
18:33being sold
18:34portable card readers.
18:35So it's never been easier
18:37for a builder
18:37to take your money.
18:38Now the most important job,
18:40get the kettle on.
18:43Not in six shutters, please.
18:48And now it's time
18:49to tackle more
18:50of your problems
18:51in the Advice Clinic.
18:54The Advice Clinic
18:55is on the road
18:56bringing the best
18:57consumer advice.
18:58I really think
18:59they've got it wrong here.
19:00and I think
19:01that's a very
19:01questionable claim.
19:02To you.
19:07It's raining today
19:08here in Mansfield
19:09but a couple of weeks ago
19:10it was even worse.
19:12There was snow and ice
19:13which forced
19:14rip-off Britain viewer
19:15Beverly
19:15to have to cancel
19:16her holiday.
19:17Despite having insurance
19:18for exactly that,
19:20she had to pay out.
19:21That's Beverly Ballag
19:23from Lincolnshire
19:24and she knows
19:25a thing or two
19:25about travel.
19:27Because I was born
19:28in Southampton
19:29and I saw the ships
19:30come in and out
19:32when I was a child.
19:33That's what took me
19:34to cruising.
19:35Cruising took me
19:36all over the world.
19:38But the holiday
19:39Beverly needs
19:39our help with
19:40in January 2026
19:42was much closer to home.
19:44In fact,
19:44it's just half an hour's
19:46drive from her house.
19:47I was going to
19:48Thursby Hall Hotel
19:50which I've visited
19:52often in the last
19:54three years.
19:56I love it there.
19:57It was more than a hotel.
19:59My friends even
20:00called it my second home.
20:02It's part of the
20:03Warner Hotels group
20:05and the four-night break
20:06set 85-year-old
20:07Beverly back
20:09£369
20:10with £30 on top
20:12for Warner's own
20:13holiday protection plan.
20:15It offers peace of mind
20:17if something
20:18doesn't go to plan
20:19including illness
20:20and adverse weather.
20:21And on the day
20:22of Beverly's trip
20:23she would certainly
20:24describe the weather
20:25as adverse.
20:27I woke up,
20:28looked out of the window
20:30and there was about
20:32four or five centimetres
20:35of snow
20:36on the ground.
20:38BBC Radio
20:39Lincolnshire.
20:40Another news
20:41has a yellow
20:41weather warning
20:42in place for snow
20:43and ice
20:44in Lincolnshire.
20:45Police say
20:45they've had 30 reports
20:46of crashes
20:47since midnight.
20:49And I was really upset
20:51because at my age
20:53I'm disabled.
20:55I just knew
20:57I would not be able
20:58to travel.
20:59The weather forecast
21:00was saying
21:01don't risk
21:02unnecessary journeys
21:04and the highway code
21:05said
21:06if it's snowy
21:07and icy
21:08then you shouldn't
21:09make any
21:10unnecessary journeys.
21:13Beverly's post
21:14Christmas break
21:14was off
21:15so she got
21:16on the phone
21:16first to the hotel
21:18then to Warner's
21:19customer service line.
21:20Nobody was picking
21:21up the phone
21:22and that's when
21:23I thought
21:23email them
21:24tell them
21:25but all to no avail
21:27that day.
21:28In fact
21:29it wasn't until
21:30lunchtime
21:30the following day
21:31that someone
21:32called her back.
21:34On that call
21:35Beverly explained
21:35she wanted to claim
21:36under the protection plan
21:38which as far as
21:39she understood
21:40covered her
21:41for adverse weather
21:42but the Warner
21:43agent wasn't
21:44so sure.
21:45She said
21:46you're not covered
21:47because there was
21:49no red alert
21:52for my area.
21:54You could make
21:55a claim
21:56she said
21:57or fill out
21:58a claims form
21:59online
21:59but she said
22:01it will be rejected.
22:03The policy
22:04would only
22:05have paid out
22:06if the Met Office
22:07had issued
22:07a red weather warning
22:09for the area
22:10and it hadn't
22:11so loyal
22:12customer Beverly
22:13was left
22:14£400
22:14out of pocket.
22:18Determined
22:19not to take
22:19that lying down
22:20she's on her way
22:21to Mansfield
22:22Central Library
22:22and our
22:23advice clinic.
22:25Hello Beverly.
22:26Hello.
22:26How are you?
22:27Are you alright?
22:28Armed with proof
22:29of just how bad
22:30the weather
22:30really was
22:31for personal
22:32finance expert
22:33Amy Knight
22:34heavy snow
22:36spreading inland
22:37causing disruption
22:38on roads
22:38I mean
22:38it was snow
22:39and ice
22:40wasn't it?
22:41It was icy
22:42I have a double
22:43hip replacement
22:44I daren't walk
22:46on snowy
22:46or icy grounds
22:48and I definitely
22:49would not
22:50actually drive
22:51in those conditions.
22:53Amy believes
22:54there's little wonder
22:55Beverly thought
22:56Warner's holiday
22:57protection plan
22:57would cover her.
22:59This is the
22:59Warner holiday
23:00protection
23:00and it includes
23:02adverse weather
23:03conditions such
23:04as storms
23:04and blizzards.
23:05It doesn't say
23:06anywhere in that
23:07box that other
23:09terms and conditions
23:10apply.
23:11No.
23:11You have to really
23:12go hunting.
23:14After much searching
23:15Amy found the
23:16clause that's
23:17scuppering Beverly's
23:18claim.
23:19Okay so it says
23:20the adverse weather
23:21condition cover is
23:22only applicable
23:23on the day of
23:24travel and if your
23:25journey will be
23:25affected by red
23:26weather warning.
23:27I mean it's a tiny
23:28word red.
23:29And it's absolutely
23:29buried.
23:30My goodness me.
23:31But Met Office
23:33red weather warnings
23:34are super rare.
23:35So rare in fact
23:37that only seven
23:38were issued between
23:38November 2021
23:39and the end of
23:412025 across the
23:43whole of the UK.
23:44All of which makes
23:45the chances of a
23:46payout under this
23:47clause of the
23:48policy rather slim.
23:51I mean the terms
23:52and conditions may be
23:53the terms and
23:54conditions but it
23:55doesn't feel right
23:55does it?
23:56It's not customer
23:57friendly at all.
23:58And I feel very
23:59strongly about it
24:00because I have been
24:01such a good.
24:03And there'll be
24:04other people who are
24:05equally loyal customers.
24:06Equally, yes.
24:07It's Beverly's loyalty
24:09that Amy believes
24:10should beat the T's
24:11and C's on this
24:12occasion.
24:1324 times I've been
24:15to Warners.
24:16And you'd like to
24:16continue using them
24:17in the future?
24:18Yes, I would.
24:18So I think that's the
24:19message we need to get
24:20across to the customer
24:21service team and appeal
24:24to them as reasonable
24:25human beings that this
24:28is a customer who has
24:30some health conditions
24:31and we really want her
24:33to keep coming back.
24:34But when we readied
24:35ourselves to put that
24:36case to Warner, we hit
24:38much the same obstacle
24:39that Beverly came up
24:40against when she tried
24:41to get in touch.
24:42There was no one there.
24:44The customer care team
24:46will be available Monday
24:47to Friday from 9am
24:49until 1pm.
24:50But Amy's got a plan.
24:52We need to get the
24:54former complaint in
24:56progress because if we
24:57want to escalate it
24:59any further, we need
25:01to have followed the
25:02proper channels in the
25:03first instance.
25:04So you need to basically
25:05gather as much hard
25:06evidence as possible,
25:08which you've done a
25:09really thorough job of,
25:10by the way.
25:10So all of that combined
25:12with the fact that
25:14you're a loyal customer,
25:15hopefully will be enough
25:17for them to consider a
25:19gesture of goodwill,
25:21if not a full
25:22reimbursement of what
25:24you've spent.
25:25What would make you
25:25happy?
25:26Quite honestly, an
25:27apology would even be
25:29nice.
25:30Yeah.
25:30And do you know what?
25:31Apologies don't cost
25:32money.
25:32No, they don't.
25:34So Beverly headed home
25:36armed with Amy's plan
25:37for a formal complaint.
25:38But Warner stuck to its
25:40original decision.
25:41However, our team was
25:43also talking to the
25:44company.
25:45Time for me to catch up
25:46with Beverly.
25:48Hi, Beverly.
25:49How are you doing?
25:49I'm doing OK, thank
25:51you.
25:52I understand that someone
25:53has reached out to you.
25:54What have they said?
25:56It was the sales and
25:58customer service manager
26:00and she said that they
26:01were going to give me a
26:03free holiday.
26:05Wow.
26:05How do you feel about
26:06that?
26:07Well, I actually was
26:09gobsmacked, to be quite
26:10honest, because it seemed
26:12to have been a lot of
26:14hard work getting them to
26:16actually realise, you
26:19know, that an 80...
26:20Oh, no, I'm 86 now.
26:22I nearly said 85.
26:23An 86-year-old pensioner
26:26needed some consideration.
26:28Well, I just want to say
26:30well done.
26:32Warner told us it was
26:34sorry Beverly was
26:35disappointed and it
26:36understood her concerns
26:37about travelling in
26:38winter conditions.
26:39It maintained that its
26:40decision was in line with
26:42the terms of its
26:43protection policy, but
26:44said it has listened to
26:46her feedback and
26:47updated its website to
26:48ensure it's easy for
26:50guests to understand.
26:53It means, Beverly, you
26:54seem to hopefully have
26:55got a free holiday and
26:57your complaint very well
26:58might help other people
27:00avoiding similar
27:01situations.
27:02I'm pleased that, you
27:04know, that their
27:05terms and conditions
27:06have made it clearer
27:08because I'm sure there's
27:09a lot of people that
27:11could be under the same
27:13sort of situation that
27:15I was.
27:15I think you've done
27:16really good work.
27:17Are you proud of
27:18yourself?
27:18You should be.
27:19I'm going to pat myself
27:20on the back.
27:22I'd do it for you, but
27:23you've done a really
27:24good job.
27:25Take care, Beverly.
27:26Thank you very much,
27:27Louise.
27:29Well done, Beverly.
27:30And I love the fact that
27:31she actually gave herself a
27:32pat on the back.
27:32Now, if you've got a
27:33problem and you think
27:34that we can help, then
27:36do let us know about it
27:37and maybe the advice
27:38clinic could be heading
27:38to your neck of the
27:40woods very soon.
27:40Our email address is
27:42ripoffbritton at
27:43bbc.co.uk.
27:45And I tell you, we have
27:46got plenty of other ways
27:47to get in touch, which
27:48of course we'll tell you
27:49about later on.
27:50Now, solicitor Denise
27:52Nurse is back and we're
27:53also joined by consumer
27:54rights expert Martin
27:55James to answer your
27:57questions.
27:57And Martin, one for you
27:58first from Saz Skinner
28:00in Devon.
28:01Saz says her daughter
28:03moved out of her
28:04shared house recently,
28:05but the landlord has
28:06failed to return her
28:07deposit and has sent her
28:09a bill for £4,000 to
28:11cover damage he claims
28:13Saz's daughter caused,
28:14but which she says she
28:16definitely didn't.
28:17What can she do?
28:18Well, this is really,
28:20really unfair, but the
28:21good news is the laws
28:22and regulations are on
28:24Saz's daughter's side.
28:26When you are renting an
28:27apartment, that money
28:28that you pay as part of
28:30your deposit goes into
28:31what's known as a
28:31deposit protection scheme.
28:33And that means that when
28:34you come to leave, you
28:36can go to a deposit
28:37protection scheme if
28:38there's a dispute with
28:39a landlord about any
28:40damages that might be
28:41outstanding.
28:42If you're not sure if
28:44you're being treated
28:44fairly, free sites like
28:46Shelter have advice and
28:47you can find out more
28:48about your rights.
28:49So go to the deposit
28:50protection scheme and
28:52don't give up on this
28:53one.
28:53That's a crazy amount of
28:54money.
28:55Denise, the next one is
28:56from Dave Seriani from
28:57Accrington who sent us
28:58this little message.
29:00I received a parking
29:02ticket for being nine
29:04minutes over the two
29:05hour limit.
29:05I have spinal injuries
29:07and I do have a blue
29:08badge which I put on the
29:10dashboard.
29:11After I received the
29:12first ticket for £60, I
29:14went to the store
29:15manager and he advised
29:17me not to pay it.
29:18It then went to £100 and
29:20then to £170 with a
29:22debt collector.
29:23The ticket was cancelled
29:25the day before I paid it
29:27but the collection agency
29:30doesn't want to know and
29:31I would really like to get
29:32my money back.
29:33So she paid the debt
29:34collection agency even
29:35though she'd appealed and
29:36had her ticket cancelled.
29:38So can she get that other
29:39money back?
29:40Well the ticket was
29:41cancelled which means
29:42there's no debt owed
29:43because there was no
29:44ticket.
29:45So she should be able to
29:46get her money back.
29:47She needs to put this in
29:49writing, I don't know if
29:49she has already, to the
29:50debt collection agency to
29:52say the ticket was
29:53cancelled, show that
29:54evidence to them so that
29:55nothing was due and that
29:56she's paid in error.
29:58Also go back to the
29:59parking company because
30:01they're the ones who
30:02would have passed the debt
30:02on to the debt agency.
30:04So take the complaint to
30:05them and if all else
30:07fails, they can also
30:08contact the British
30:09Parking Association or
30:11the International Parking
30:12Community.
30:13Thank you both for your
30:14advice, very useful.
30:16Now it's impossible to
30:17count the number of times
30:18that we hear from people
30:19who feel hugely let down
30:21by one company or another
30:22only to be told, well
30:24it's in the terms and
30:25conditions.
30:26But of course we all know
30:27that some T's and C's can
30:28seem never ending and
30:30impossible to read.
30:32Well shortly I'm going to
30:33be learning a new trick
30:34that could put the power
30:36back in all our hands
30:37using the power of AI.
30:40So I'm looking forward to
30:40that a lot.
30:41But first, here's a reminder
30:43of the last time we
30:44investigated the
30:45astonishing length of some
30:47of those terms and
30:48conditions.
30:51Come on in.
30:52Off you go.
30:53Eight-year-old Cockapoo
30:55Chester was the star of the
30:57show when owner Debbie
30:58Carter from Gravesend first
31:00showed him off to us back
31:01in 2023.
31:02Chester means the world to
31:04us, like another child
31:05really in the family.
31:06It's great company.
31:08It just means everything
31:09really.
31:10We heard how Debbie was
31:11paying £39 a month to the
31:14insurer Pet Protect to cover
31:16Chester if anything
31:17unexpected should happen.
31:18So when he suffered an
31:20injury that would cost
31:21£5,000 in vet bills.
31:23They said it was crucial
31:25ligament damage and that it
31:26would require a big
31:27operation.
31:28Debbie was sure they'd be
31:30protected.
31:31It covered us for £6,000
31:33accident and illness.
31:34I just thought, thank
31:36goodness we're covered.
31:38Thankfully, Chester made
31:39a full recovery.
31:41Come on, up.
31:42Up.
31:45But when it came to
31:46paying the vet's bills, I'm
31:47afraid things were not as
31:49simple.
31:50Rather than cover the
31:51full amount, Pet Protect
31:52only paid out $7,000.
31:53£750, leaving Debbie to
31:56foot the remaining £4,000
31:58bill.
31:59Pet Protect said that we
32:01only covered up to £750
32:02for crucial ligament damage,
32:05which we absolutely
32:06shocked by.
32:08Debbie immediately turned to
32:10Pet Protect's terms and
32:11conditions, certain that she
32:13would have noticed such a
32:14clause when she took out the
32:15policy.
32:1631 pages later, she
32:19couldn't find any reference to
32:21the crusade ligament clause.
32:23It was only when she checked a
32:25second policy booklet from the
32:26following year, she realised that
32:28Chester wasn't fully covered after
32:30all.
32:32I don't think it's fair that you
32:33should have to trawl through this
32:35whole booklet to find out what has
32:38changed, what's not been changed.
32:41I feel like I was responsible by not
32:44reading it, but I just don't think
32:46they made it clear.
32:48Now, when we spoke to Pet Protect,
32:50it soon became clear what exactly had
32:52gone on.
32:53The cruciate ligament clause was
32:56introduced in 2016, a year after Debbie
32:59first took out Chester's policy.
33:01Pet Protect told us that the clause
33:03and limitations were set out in its
33:05terms and conditions and its renewal
33:07paperwork from then onwards.
33:10But Debbie says that with most of
33:12those documents only being available
33:13digitally, she didn't always read
33:16them, relying instead on the hard
33:18copies she'd kept from the first two
33:20years of the policy.
33:21Pet Protect has told us that all
33:23insurance policies contain certain
33:25limitations and exemptions, which are
33:28essential in calculating the correct
33:30premium that a customer should pay.
33:32And it added that these are all
33:33explained to customers in a number of
33:35separate documents and on its website.
33:39For this experience, I've learned that
33:41I need to read all the T's and C's,
33:44which we didn't really do.
33:49But it's not just insurance policies
33:51that can have very lengthy terms and
33:53conditions.
33:54They are everywhere.
33:55And when we told Debbie's story,
33:57producer Katie Saatchi also explored the
34:00wordy world of holiday companies'
34:02terms and conditions, working out how long
34:05it would take to read the terms of six
34:07leading holiday companies based on an
34:10average reading speed of three words a
34:12second.
34:13Now, the shortest were TUI and Hayes
34:16Travel.
34:16So, for TUI, it would take you 18 minutes to read.
34:20It's just over 3,000 words.
34:22For Hayes Travel, 19 minutes, again, just under
34:243,500 words.
34:26EasyJet's clocked in at 47 minutes.
34:29Jet2 holidays would take one hour and six minutes.
34:33And on the beach, an hour and 11 minutes.
34:36The longest of the six was Ho Seasons.
34:40So, I worked out that if I was going to take a, you know, a nice weekend mini break, maybe
34:45to Conway in North Wales, that's about an hour and a half's drive from here in Salford.
34:49It would take me that entire journey to read those booking conditions.
34:54Every single word.
34:54Yes, which are nearly 16,500 words.
34:57That's five times longer than TUI's.
35:01At the time, Ho Seasons declined to comment,
35:04while On the Beach told us it would be separating its terms and conditions
35:08into two separate documents.
35:10One for package holidays and one for other kinds of break,
35:14meaning customers would need to read through much less.
35:18But, fast forward a few years, and it seems there's now a way to shortcut those lengthy
35:23T's and C's using AI.
35:26And tech expert David McClelland is joining me in HQ to reveal all.
35:31First, though, Katie's back, and she's been checking up on whether those holiday companies
35:35have made their terms any less laborious.
35:41So, what have you discovered so far?
35:43Well, there was very little movement at the lower end of the leaderboard.
35:46So, TUI had a small decrease.
35:48Their terms and conditions are now about 100 words shorter.
35:51That brings the reading time to 17 minutes, we calculated.
35:55Hayes Travel has added about 40 words, taking the time to about 20 minutes.
36:01Meanwhile, EasyJet has added about 500 words, and Jet 2 Holidays has added 1,500 words, roughly
36:10an extra 8 minutes.
36:12On the Beach stuck to its promise in 2023 to separate its terms and conditions, which has
36:18taken the reading time down from 1 hour 11 minutes to around 32 minutes.
36:23So, as a reminder, the original T's and C's from them were just under 13,000 words.
36:30They have now got a separate set of package holiday terms and conditions, only around 3,000
36:35words, but they've also now introduced a handbook, which is a similar length.
36:40They've also changed their approach with the rest of their terms and conditions.
36:43So, instead of a single set of T's and C's for other booking types, they've got specific
36:49terms for hotel-only bookings and for cruise bookings.
36:53So, that keeps the word count down for those customers as well.
36:56And what about host seasons?
36:57Yes.
36:58So, last time, they topped the list.
37:00It was about 16,500 words long, so about an hour and a half.
37:05But they've now split up their terms and conditions too.
37:09They've separated them into the following booking types, lodges and parks, cottages and boating
37:15holidays.
37:16And how's that working out?
37:17Well, the word count for each of those is roughly around the 5,000 to 6,000 mark, so around
37:23about
37:23half an hour each.
37:25So, a huge improvement on an hour and a half, you know, all in one long document.
37:29So, even though they didn't get back to us last time, it does feel like they might have
37:34listened.
37:35We picked this up with the two companies whose T's and C's have grown in length.
37:41EasyJet told us its booking conditions are regularly reviewed to ensure they remain clear, transparent
37:47and easy to understand.
37:48Adding that it has introduced a new quick glance section to highlight key points along with
37:54clearer wording in some areas.
37:57EasyJet said that booking conditions are an important part of any holiday, so it has made
38:01sure that everything is brought together in one place rather than across multiple pages
38:06of its website.
38:07And EasyJet added that it consistently receives positive feedback on its website's ease of
38:13use.
38:14Meanwhile, Jet2Holidays said the way it communicates with customers is integral to its customer
38:20service approach.
38:21So, as well as T's and C's we compared, it also sends out other guidance including on baggage,
38:27checking, mobility and medical assistance and other valuable information.
38:34But even if all the firms we checked had added to their terms and conditions, David has got
38:40a way that could help you understand them without pouring over every word, by using AI.
38:46I think finding the key bits in these enormous terms and conditions documents is actually
38:53a really useful use case for AI.
38:57The first thing you need to do, of course, is to make sure that your AI app, and you can
39:01access that on your phone or your tablet or through a web browser on your computer or something,
39:05that it's got the right information.
39:06So, give your AI app the terms and conditions.
39:10You might be able to drag it and drop it or click on upload.
39:12Or, in some cases, you can just copy and paste the link from the website.
39:17Then you know that the conversation that you will have with your AI is based on the terms
39:21and conditions of that holiday company.
39:23Also, think about AI as if you're chatting to a friend who's read for an hour or more and
39:29digested this document.
39:30And then have a conversation with them.
39:32Say, I want to know more about cancellation.
39:35Tell me everywhere in this terms and conditions document where it mentions last-minute cancellations
39:40and what I might be liable for, for example.
39:43So, to test this, the Ripoff Britain team went and looked at three different AI apps.
39:49So, Google, Gemini, Microsoft Copilot, and Anthropics Claude.
39:54And they asked the same question about the same terms and conditions about cancellations.
40:00And got three very different, none of them incorrect, but three very different responses.
40:07We gave the three AI tools the same set of terms and conditions and asked them whether
40:12we would be entitled to a full refund if we had to cancel our accommodation within hours
40:17of booking.
40:18The correct answer was no.
40:20But while all of the AIs were able to point to details in the relevant section of the T's
40:26and C's, only Claude drew our attention to the exemption that meant we would not be entitled
40:32to a refund.
40:33So, I think the message to me is that, yes, AI apps can be helpful in understanding terms
40:40and conditions, but ultimately, the same as with security, never trust, always verify.
40:46Go back and check the actual terms and conditions yourself just to make sure that what the AI
40:52is telling you is indeed accurate.
40:54And a really good use for these AI tools might be to compare a new version of a terms and
41:01conditions with an old version of the terms and conditions.
41:03Load those documents or the links into your AI tool and just say, what's the difference
41:09between these two documents?
41:11And again, if you want to double check for yourself, say, show me where in the document
41:16it says that, just so you can be certain that what you're seeing in your AI app is actually
41:21what's in the T's and C's.
41:23Whatever you ask an AI tool, it's worth bearing in mind that the information you provide is
41:28used to help improve the answers it gives to other users.
41:31So, it's worth thinking carefully about sharing any personal details.
41:36I'm going to go back to Katie, actually.
41:38If people are not ready yet for AI, have you got any advice for that?
41:42Yeah, if you've got a digital copy of a policy or a set of terms and conditions, either if that's
41:48on a web page or, you know, it's been sent to you by a company, if you put that into
41:53a
41:53Word document, you can just go Control-F or Command-F if you're on a Mac and you can search
41:59for a specific term that you want to read about.
42:02I've done it that way before when we want to have a look at if someone's covered for a particular
42:06thing.
42:06You see?
42:07Katie's got a lot of things.
42:08Anyway, great information as always.
42:12Thank you both very much.
42:15If you've got a problem and you think our team might be able to help, there are lots of ways
42:20you can get in touch.
42:21You can email us at ripoffbritain at bbc.co.uk or send us a WhatsApp message to 033-678-1321.
42:32We're also on Facebook.
42:34Just search for BBC Ripoff Britain.
42:37Or write us a letter.
42:38The address is Ripoff Britain, BBC Media City, UK, Salford, M50 2LH.
42:44Please include your phone number if you can and don't send us any original documents
42:50as we won't be able to return them.
42:54Well, that's almost all from us for today.
42:57But if you've missed any of it, from how to find a tradesperson you can trust to how to
43:01use AI to get the lowdown on your terms and conditions, then you can catch up on today's
43:06programme and many more on BBC iPlayer.
43:09Or you can check out our website for plenty more advice as well, bbc.co.uk slash ripoffbritain.
43:16I think you know by now how much we appreciate your company with us here in Ripoff Britain.
43:20But from all of us on the team, enjoy the rest of your day.
43:23And from us, bye-bye.
43:24Goodbye.
43:25Bye.
43:25Bye.
43:39Bye.
43:40Bye.
43:42Bye.
43:48Bye.
43:50Bye.
43:52Bye.
43:52Bye.
43:55Bye.
43:55Bye.
43:55Bye.
43:55Bye.
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