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Naked City Hitmen S01E01 Episode 1 Engsub
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00:20In the Naked City, generations of crooks are linked by blood, crimes and conspiracies.
00:30For some, death is just around the corner.
00:37Most people go about their business unaware there is a darker world that exists alongside
00:43them until, like a rumbling volcano, it bursts to the surface.
00:55There are five million stories in the Naked City.
00:59This is one of them.
01:20What causes someone to become a hitman?
01:24They don't really care too much for human life.
01:31Why don't you admit that you murdered my children?
01:35They're the lowest of the low, they take a human life for a sum of money.
01:41This was only ever about who controlled the pill market.
01:48An easy money for someone who has no conscience is to pick up a gun and take a contract out.
02:03I'm amazed that anyone can be callous enough to kill for payment.
02:09They believe that that would give them status within the criminal world.
02:14They don't care if an innocent person is injured or wounded or was killed.
02:19To have a psyche like that means you are the lowest form of humanity there is.
02:26An uncontrollable war where people were getting murdered on a monthly basis.
02:31There's enough money in the drug trade for everyone for a share.
02:35But of course, as soon as you get a taste of it, that's it.
02:39You want the lot.
02:41A .45 semi-auto loaded.
02:44Binoculars, night vision gear, ballistic vest.
02:49Balaclava, mask, wig.
02:52I would call that a pretty good assassin's kit.
02:56And you are the hitman.
03:12In the late 1980s and well into the 2000s, Melbourne didn't just have a crime problem.
03:18It had a full blown war on its hands.
03:21A bloody, drawn out, underworld conflict that would leave dozens of bodies on the ground,
03:27tie up thousands of police hours and feed a national obsession with crooks who acted like celebrities.
03:36At the centre of it were rival crews fighting for a slice of the city's booming drug trade.
03:41The Carlton crew were old school, organised, established and happy to mix gambling and stand over tactics.
03:50Mick Gatto, Graeme Kinneborough and Mario Condello were an underworld collective coming together to socialise and do business.
04:00And they would still be in business if a key group, the Moran family, weren't greedy and hot tempered.
04:06The Morans were connected through blood and business.
04:10Lewis was a bookmaker with sticky fingers.
04:12His sons, Mark, had the brains.
04:15Jason had the temper.
04:18Over a decade, it was a sprawling crime war involving hundreds of police, untold millions in drugs and money,
04:25that left major and minor underworld figures dead.
04:28At the same time, it would capture the fascination of a nation like no criminal story before or since.
04:36And that was because of the fuse that lit this powder keg of drugs, money and violence.
04:43Carl Anthony Williams.
04:53It seems so long ago, but I remember thinking way too much about Carl Williams.
05:01You know, I would have my working day full of how we were going to go and bring him behind
05:08bars,
05:09but that would often enter into my thoughts in the middle of the night.
05:13You know, I and many of my colleagues become very consumed by the work we did at the Piranha Task
05:21Force.
05:21And, you know, he was killing people, as it turned out, on a regular basis.
05:27We knew we weren't immune to that.
05:29We knew it was a threat and we took precautions for our own safety.
05:34All of us did.
05:36Ultimately, as I became more the focus of his attention, as we stepped out by our investigations,
05:44he became more focused on me.
05:46And we became aware of him making threats to kill me and my girlfriend.
05:51Williams was recorded asking his wife, Roberta,
05:55If Bateson comes looking for me, you know what to do, don't you?
05:58Shoot them in the head.
06:00If you want Bateson's missus, I'll just chop her up.
06:05When these threats are taking place in a context that they were,
06:10where people were actually getting murdered on a regular basis,
06:13we knew our lives were potentially at risk.
06:18There's not much you can do about it.
06:21But it's certainly, you know, from my point of view,
06:24the most important thing is it didn't affect the way I did my job.
06:29And it certainly didn't make me take a step backwards.
06:33In fact, it made me take a step forwards into the fight.
06:45There was talk in the early days that Carl Williams was a driver for the Morans.
06:51I'm not sure that that was true.
06:53He was certainly in and around the periphery of their drug trafficking.
06:58He had taken up with Roberta Williams.
07:02Roberta had been known to us previously to the police
07:06in other relationships she'd had with other serious criminals.
07:10She was a presence and a force to be reckoned with.
07:14And, you know, I think in lots of ways,
07:16she may well have been a Lady Macbeth to Carl.
07:23I first met Carl in probably late 1999.
07:29I got the impression that he was a lower level criminal,
07:34perhaps of limited intelligence.
07:37His history indicated to us that he was not much more
07:39than a street level thug.
07:41He was a member of a local footy club.
07:43I think at various stages he had a job stacking shelves at a supermarket.
07:50And the underworld thought of him as a bit of a loser.
07:57But there was rumours that he'd taken position of a pill press
08:01that he refused to give back.
08:05He was manufacturing his own pills and selling them
08:10and undercutting the Moran's in the market.
08:12But whatever the exact cause, there was real animosity.
08:16He was starting to emerge as a potential threat to their business
08:20and they wanted to put him back into place.
08:24The Moran family did not want this,
08:27what they saw as this upstart challenging them.
08:44Carl Williams was lured to a suburban park.
08:48He was lured there by Mark and Jason Moran.
08:52When he met with them, he was shot in the stomach with a small calibre pistol.
09:03After he was shot in the stomach, there was talk of finishing him off.
09:08But Jason was quite strong on the fact that there was money owed
09:12and they needed to collect it from him and they couldn't do it if he was dead.
09:17Carl actually went home from the shooting that day
09:20and it was actually his parents that said to him,
09:23what's going on?
09:24And little did they know that Carl had been shot.
09:26They took him to hospital and they extracted this small calibre pallet from his stomach.
09:35This really was the thing that started the underworld war as we know it now.
09:42From that moment on, Carl knew that he was in danger,
09:45but he also swore that he'd get his revenge.
09:48He swore that he would kill the Morans.
09:57Mark Rand was smarter than the others.
10:01He had the reputation and the intelligence to do a lot of things.
10:07It was also pretty tough himself.
10:11It was around about 8.30 on this particular night we received a call.
10:22The End
10:42Following that call, he walked out to his ute, and as he got into that ute, he was shot
10:49with a shotgun. Early on, there was a number of people put forward as suspects, but we
10:59did have a strong lead in terms of Carl Williams. Carl wasn't a particularly tough guy, but
11:07there was no doubt Carl Williams was dangerous, and he was willing to act with violence and
11:11take out his competitors. Still to come in the Naked City. For a story that's gripped
11:22Melbourne, today provided another riveting chapter. It was just out of control. These
11:30are the people who are willing to kill their friends, their family for money. Where were
11:35we going to go from here? Carl Williams said, fasten your seatbelts. We had intelligence
11:44to suggest that his life was in danger. There's been so many murders, a special task force has
11:54been set up to catch the killers. This was the most important breakthrough that we'd had
12:00in the criminal law in Victoria for a very, very long time. Here, go. It's nasty. It's
12:08lots of blood and gore. It looked like a professional head. He was the only one that I would know
12:14who
12:14could run that far in that distance. I thought it was him. That was the crime that escalated
12:22this from criminals killing criminals to a public safety issue. We had snipers all around the building.
12:30Carl moved quickly. He was giving us a message. Yes, this was me, but you're not going to be able
12:35to do anything about it.
12:42The hit on Mark Moran was first reported as the death of a local footballer.
12:48It would take time to learn it was the declaration of an underworld war that would consume Melbourne
12:55for years. Carl Williams was a nobody who wanted to be the headline act. He began recruiting a crew
13:03of hard men to carry out his plan to kill his enemies and leave him as the last man standing.
13:11His star recruit came out of the West with a reputation for being violent, efficient, merciless
13:18and utterly fearless. Before long, he became the most lethal contract killer in a gangland war
13:26that was only just getting started. In the 90s, we were seeing a number of crews emerge in the suburbs
13:36of
13:36Melbourne. And in particular, there was a crew in Sunshine that was becoming increasingly more violent,
13:42involved in shootings, robberies. And this was a crew that was becoming increasingly on the police radar.
13:54Neil Patterson is my name. I'm a former deputy commissioner with Victoria Police.
13:59You know, I arrived at Sunshine CIB in January of 1995. Andrew Veneman and Dino Dibera were regulars
14:09through the CI offices back in those days. These were two young boys who had been friends since
14:15teenagers. They come together with Paul Colapolitis, Mark Malia and a couple of others. And they form a
14:22relationship that's going to help each of them make money out there. And they become known as the Sunshine
14:28Crew. They saw themselves as gangsters. They carried guns. They were dangerous individuals that were seen
14:35to be reckless. They were rubbing shoulders and bumping into other criminal networks across Melbourne,
14:42like the Carlton Crew. And they were becoming a much more serious criminal enterprise and causing problems.
14:52Andrew Veneman was perhaps the most dangerous. He was calculated and he was perhaps a little
14:59bit smarter than some of the others. He was an aggressive, violent kid. He was a boxer, tough.
15:08And through the fight game, he'd met people like Mick Gatto.
15:18He was unpredictable. He was somewhat well connected. And as it turns out, he had no hesitation to kill
15:29some of those friends that he had from his Sunshine Crew.
15:49Andrew Veneman was the suspect in killing his mates, Paul Colapolitis and Dino Dibra.
15:57Dino Dibra's past caught up with him last night. He was shot at close range and died in the driveway.
16:03He shot him at least 14 times. When you look at something like that, you know you've got rage.
16:13You know, you see there are efficient killers, they only need to shoot once. When they're shooting
16:17excessive amount of times, that is making a statement. And that for us as police officers
16:23is a sign that we're dealing with some very dangerous people.
16:29There's an element of ego for Andrew as well. He's wanting his reputation as a hitman,
16:35as a murderer. He was someone to be feared. The other criminals in Melbourne would know that
16:42he would be prepared to do these things in a very public way. And that was absolutely the reputation he
16:50saw.
16:54Carl Williams and Andrew Veneman, they did see themselves as up and comes.
17:02At first, it seemed like a strange coupling. But Carl and he ended up building quite a good friendship.
17:10Carl brought him in as part of the team. He was earning good money through the drug trafficking.
17:17And in lots of ways, perhaps Carl treated him as a partner. And he enjoyed the prominence.
17:24They certainly socialised together. He was friends with Roberta. He was friends with Carl's kids.
17:31They became very close.
17:35By that stage, Veneman had a reputation for violence and use of guns. And that was something that
17:43no doubt Williams thought that may be useful across the broader criminal networks.
17:51Nick Krativ had a Bulgarian background, but he was known as Nick the Russian.
17:57He had a reputation for extreme violence.
18:04He wanted access to the amphetamines cook who was controlled by Carl Williams.
18:18The rumor was that Nick Krativ was going to kidnap that cook and force him into slave labour to make
18:25amphetamines. He was someone to be feared, and rightly so.
18:29Carl was trying to take over really much of Melbourne's drug scene at that time.
18:35And Nick was trying to stand over Carl and his crew to get access to that amphetamines cook.
18:40Of course, Carl didn't want to give it up.
18:53Nick Krativ had a long and violent criminal past.
18:57He lived by the sword, and last night he died by the sword. A gunman fired at least seven shots,
19:04one hitting Krativ in the head.
19:08After the death of Nick Krativ, Veneman took on a different notion for Victoria Police as a hitman for hire.
19:16And it's something that Victoria Police probably wasn't ready for back in those days in terms of his propensity
19:23to kill someone to get an outcome that he wanted.
19:27Murder had now become a commonplace tactic in Melbourne's underworld. It was happening far
19:35too regularly, and it built the pressure on us as a police force to act. Murders in suburban streets,
19:43multiple shots fired into one victim. From my point of view, it was further evidence of the war,
19:50the growing war we were starting to deal with.
20:06It's May 2003. The bodies have been stacking up, shot, dumped or both, across laneways, car parks and cafe corners.
20:19With Benji's reputation as a gun for hire firmly set, and his loyalty to Carl rock solid,
20:25the pair didn't blink at removing anyone who got between them and their growing drug empire.
20:34But even with the cash rolling in, Carl's eyes never left the Morans.
20:38The grudge was still there, and it wasn't going anywhere.
20:47So following Mark Brand's death, Jason knew he was potentially at risk. And we know he left
20:55and went to London and lived overseas for a period of time. Why he came back, I don't know. But
21:03I suspect
21:04it was because he was never going to work pulling beers in a pub in Kensington.
21:10By this time, Carl had gathered some others into his crew. Carl was obsessed with killing Jason Moran,
21:18and he was very motivated to do so. He was pushing everyone to get information. They were looking for
21:25him everywhere. And there was various times when Carl got close to him. There was a previous plot where
21:32Andrew Veneman was going to walk through a park dressed as a woman, pushing a pram and then pull
21:37a shotgun out of the pram. But ultimately, the only option they had was the fact that they knew that
21:45he took his children to an Auskick clinic at the Cross Keys Hotel every Saturday morning.
22:00On this particular day, Jason Moran took his kids to an Auskick clinic with an associate.
22:08So if you can imagine, it's a Saturday morning. There's 100-odd kids and parents grouped around
22:15and over watching their young kids kick the football around. This is a commonplace activity
22:22in Melbourne on a Saturday morning. I think Jason Moran probably assumed that he was safe,
22:29that they wouldn't strike there. Around 10.30 in a calculated and deliberate slaying,
22:44Jason Moran and another drug figure were shot dead while children sat in the back seat.
22:56This was reasonably well planned. This seemed to be executed in a professional manner. We had some
23:03CCTV footage that was attached to the Cross Keys Hotel. It was grainy footage, but it was really telling.
23:15What it showed us is there was a white high ace van that pulled up in the car park and
23:22we could see
23:23the gunman get out of that van, run around to the driver's side door and shoot both Pasquale Barbro and
23:32Jason Moran.
23:36The gunman drops the shotgun at the scene and then he runs. He doesn't get back into the
23:41white high as he runs. And we know from witnesses that he runs over the creek probably about 1500 metres
23:49before we lose sight of him.
23:56That was telling. We started to look into who Carl Williams was associating with at the time
24:03and we'd seen that he was checked only weeks before with a guy who was known as the runner.
24:11So the runner is an interesting character. He spent most of his adult life in jail
24:18and it was there that he met Carl Williams. But he was a career criminal. He was an armed robbery
24:24specialist that achieved his nickname because he was notorious from running from the scenes of his armed robberies.
24:39One of the state's most wanted fugitives after jumping from a police car while being driven to
24:44the old city watch house. Detectives hope he may help shed more light on other serious crimes.
24:53He was being taken to the Moonee Ponds Court and the police for some reason opened the back doors of
25:01the van
25:03and he ran. He just ran and he ran and he ran and he was on the run and he
25:10went to South Australia,
25:12Perth and then ended up in Darwin and eventually got caught in Melbourne.
25:16And that's when I hooked up with him when he was out at Pentridge.
25:23The runners family came to see me as the local community lawyer to ask if I would go and visit
25:30him out at Pentridge. He was a really tough man. When he was in Pentridge he got involved in a
25:40fight.
25:41He got stabbed just above the heart and he just kept going. He was violent, he was tough, extremely fit,
25:52and could run like the clappers. When the two people were killed at the Auskick. I thought it was him.
26:06What we are looking at is a fairly brazen execution style double homicide.
26:13We went to the Cross Keys that morning. How did they come to know where to go,
26:21what to do? We knew that they must have committed some sort of reconnaissance in the days before
26:27and there were some clues. We noticed there was a phone box close to the Cross Keys
26:32and criminals in those days would use phone boxes to communicate with each other thinking that we
26:37wouldn't intercept them. So we analyzed the calls made from this particular phone box. What it told us
26:44is the guy that made the phone calls on that day rang Carl Williams, rang the runner and then rang
26:52a third
26:52person that we didn't know. We identified that third person, we went around to his house, executed a
27:00warrant, put some pressure on him and he gave up who'd rang him that day. Turns out it's the guy
27:07that we
27:08now refer to as the driver.
27:21On June 20 2003, Melbourne's gangland war stopped lurking in the shadows and stepped into full public view.
27:30Jason Moran and Pasquale Barbara were gunned down in broad daylight in front of kids at a footy clinic.
27:37What we are looking at is a fairly brazen execution style double homicide.
27:42It was a professional hit and it sent a message. No one was safe. Not long after,
27:49detectives traced a phone call to the man they nicknamed the driver.
27:56The driver was a different type of criminal. He was a known burglar, a very good burglar,
28:03but he was also a known rapist and sex offender. And he was a character that
28:12in lots of ways was repulsive. But he was also willing to commit murders for payment.
28:18And that's where Carl utilised that particular skill that he had.
28:27Around 10.30 in a calculated and deliberate slaying,
28:31Jason Moran and another less prominent drug figure were shot dead while children sat in the back seat.
28:38The runner ran up to the side window of Jason Moran's van, fired a shot from a double-barrelled shotgun.
28:47Jason Moran ducked. The first shot hit Pasquale Barbaro in the face,
28:54killed him instantly. And the runner gets up on his toes, fires the second shot from the double-barrelled
29:01shotgun into the back of Jason Moran. He drops that shotgun at the scene,
29:08pulls out a pistol and fires five more shots into Jason Moran, and then runs. What's most horrific
29:16about that is there was 10 kids in the back of that van.
29:22Jason Moran had invited a number of his son's friends back for hot dogs.
29:29These parents had no idea who Jason Moran was.
29:33They didn't know he had a 9mm pistol down the back of his pants.
29:38They didn't know he was in the Underworld War. They just thought their kids were going back for hot dogs.
29:47For everyone in the community, that was the crime that escalated this from criminals killing criminals to
29:54a public safety issue.
29:58Police have described the killings as callous and cold-blooded.
30:01Neighbours heard at least two shots.
30:03The latest in a series of Underworld killings.
30:06Going to any lengths to control the $5 billion a year market in party drugs.
30:11We had a number of murders that occurred after Mark Moran,
30:15and it started to emerge that we had an issue.
30:17There are fears this latest murder may escalate the city's gangland killings.
30:22We are concerned about the potential for innocent people being caught up in that.
30:26This sort of flawlessness must stop.
30:29We're talking a higher rate of people being killed within the criminal underworld than Melbourne
30:35had ever seen before and hasn't seen since.
30:40It was Phil Swindells, one of our senior sergeants, that first submitted a request to build a task
30:47force to have a look at the commonalities between these murders.
30:51There's been so many murders, a special task force has been set up to catch the killers.
30:56I think it's the worst series of organised crime killings in Australia's history.
31:00Why don't you admit that you murdered my children?
31:03Oh, do they?
31:07The pressure was on for Victoria Police, and indeed you feel quite a sense of self-imposed
31:12pressure to really make a difference. Detectives who were working on Piranha Task Force were
31:19highly motivated individuals who wanted to hold the criminals that were really causing havoc
31:25across Melbourne suburbs to account.
31:28For us, it was one of the most important investigations in Victoria Police's history,
31:34and we were putting significant resources and time into it.
31:38Are these paid hits?
31:40That's one of the things we're looking at.
31:42Do you think it will keep happening?
31:43I can't rule that out.
31:47Yes, we're getting closer. Yes, we're getting further into understanding what was going on in
31:52this war, but the murders continued to occur. Mark Marley was considered part of the Sunshine crew,
32:00but he wasn't through the doors being charged by detectives at anywhere near the same rate as some
32:06of the others involved. He was part of the crew, but just at a different level.
32:12Mark Marley was also our known associate of Radev, and he became upset after Nick Radev's murder,
32:20and he was starting to make inquiries about why that occurred. And in fact, on one occasion,
32:25we had some CCTV footage of him meeting with Andrew Veneman at Crown Casino.
32:32They'd often meet there. Not only was it neutral ground, but they did know there was cameras,
32:37so they always felt they were safe. And we have some footage of Mark Marley getting up and pointing
32:44in Andrew Veneman's chest. And for us, that was a bit of a red flag. We thought,
32:50geez, that he may well be in danger. And it turns out we arrived.
32:59Mark Marley was lured to a house in Melbourne's north by a couple of his friends.
33:05When they arrived, laying there in wait was Andrew Veneman, Carl Williams, and the runner.
33:14They tortured him, believing that Marley could give them access to Nick Radev's hidden precursor chemicals.
33:23He had a soldering iron put into the roof of his mouth. He was bashed repeatedly.
33:31They then put him in the boot of a car, drove him to the western suburbs.
33:41Dumped him down a drain and set him on fire.
33:47Police were contacted at eight o'clock last night after fire crews made the discovery.
33:52They'd been called to put out flames spotted near a fence on the sports field.
33:57It was a gruesome and pretty horrific attack on him trying to get that information they thought he had.
34:12SES volunteers joined police this morning in a line search of the sports field where the remains of the dead
34:18man were found.
34:19It's believed accelerant was used in the death.
34:22He was in a drain pit at one end of the ground.
34:27It was interesting that they drove him from the northern suburbs to the western suburbs.
34:32They dumped him in a position that was not far from Andrew Veneman's childhood home.
34:38And for us, that was a sign that Andrew Veneman was getting a little bit more out of control.
34:45We believed that he was giving us a message.
34:48Yes, this was me, but you're not going to be able to do anything about it.
35:00It's October 2003.
35:04In just six months, Melbourne's underworld war had racked up more bodies.
35:09Nick the Russian Radov, Mark Martyr and the public execution of Jason Moran and Pasquale Barbaro
35:17in front of the kids at Auskick shocked the nation.
35:21Every killing was more brazen than the last.
35:24The city's body count was growing and so was the pressure.
35:29They needed a win and quick.
35:31The police response was to announce the Piranha Task Force.
35:37They inherited a lead from the homicide squad.
35:40A phone link to the driver of the getaway car from the Auskick shooting.
35:44It would be the golden thread.
35:52Once we identified who the driver was, we went round to his home in the southern suburbs of Melbourne
36:00and there parked in the driveway was a white hi-ase.
36:04That white hi-ase was used in the murder of Jason Moran.
36:09This was a significant breakthrough for us and we thought we're on the right track.
36:15What we did then is we commenced electronic surveillance on the driver and the runner and Carl Williams.
36:24When the Piranha Task Force was formed, there was only seven detectives.
36:30After Jason Moran, we grew to 55 and over time we built on that.
36:35By this stage we had telephone intercepts and listening devices.
36:41Someone had to actually listen to all those hours.
36:44Teams of people were doing that.
36:46The sheer weight of numbers showed the seriousness Victoria Police were taking this war.
36:53The more information we got in, we built good intelligence databases.
36:59So in lots of ways, if you had a deck of cards, we were targeting the sevens and eights
37:04so we could move our way up to the ace of spades, which was Carl Williams.
37:12We, through our web of electronic surveillance, got wind that the runner and the driver were looking
37:20for a clean car that couldn't be traced back to them.
37:24We worked hard to get an electronic device into that vehicle.
37:29Unfortunately for us, they noticed one of the brake lights wasn't working.
37:33They started going through all the wiring in the car and they found our device.
37:37We thought our job was blown.
37:40But we underestimated how desperate they were to commit this crime.
37:45So they used their own car.
37:47Little did they know that we had a listening device in that car as well.
38:02Both the runner and the driver parked down the end of Joy Street, South Yarra in a laneway.
38:10And we believed that they were actually going to commit an armed robbery.
38:14But we heard them playing with a gun.
38:18We started to think, oh my God, this might be something different.
38:23They pull into Joy Street.
38:25We hear the driver and the runner talking.
38:48And they accelerate down Joy Street and the runner says, that's him, go, go, go.
39:02And then the runner jumps out of the car.
39:19The runner then takes off in a gap between a block of flats and he gets back into the
39:26driver's car who's waiting for him.
39:28And you hear the driver say quite clearly, get down, get down.
39:35Get in, get down, get down.
39:38Nice and down, safe down.
39:42And they drove from the scene.
39:44Stay down, you're all right.
39:47Stay down, don't seem right, stay down.
39:53They drove straight back to the driver's house in the southern suburbs.
40:00Little did they know we had a listening device in there as well.
40:03And we overhear them getting rid of their clothes, getting rid of the gun.
40:08But most importantly, we hear a phone call where the runner calls Carl Williams and says these words,
40:17Carl, you know that horse you tipped us?
40:19It's just been scratched.
40:24Michael Marshall lived in a beautiful house in South Yarra.
40:28His business, or at least publicly known business, was a small hot dog van which he operated in South Melbourne.
40:37Marshall was a quiet achiever in terms of the drug world.
40:43But he also had access to precursor chemicals and he was willing to supply it to fuel the
40:49man-verdiment market in Melbourne.
40:56He was out collecting bread rolls with his five-year-old son for that night for his hot dog van.
41:15You know, sometimes it's easy to look at, you know, that time where there were just criminals being murdered.
41:23But to do so forgets some of the collateral damage that's left behind.
41:29Marshall's five-year-old son witnessed his father's murder.
41:34He was standing on the side of the road and when the uniformed police attended,
41:39he was still standing there looking at his father and he said to the uniformed police,
41:44I'm not allowed to cross the road without holding my dad's hand.
41:48And for the police, that was just the most heartbreaking thing to come out of a five-year-old's mouth
41:55as his father lay in the gutter on the other side of the road, bleeding to death.
42:08After the call to Carl Williams, they decide they're going to meet Carl.
42:13So they get back into the driver's vehicle and they're heading down St Kilda Road.
42:20So I wanted to let them run all the way to Carl Williams to get the evidence of their meeting.
42:27But it was decided that was too dangerous.
42:31The decision was made to have the SOG arrest them and that occurred outside the Elstonwick Hotel.
42:39They were blocked in by the SOG, dragged from their vehicle.
42:43And it was five minutes later that I arrived to find them both handcuffed face down on the nature street.
42:53The runner tried to fight the SOG. He lost, as you'd expect.
42:57But he was angry throughout the whole evening. As is his way. He was an aggressive, violent man.
43:04And he was not happy about being arrested at all.
43:07The driver, on the other hand, sensed an opportunity. He knew he was in trouble.
43:12And right from that moment, he was arrested. He was looking for a deal.
43:17On that night, we interviewed both the driver and the runner.
43:23The runner didn't say anything. In fact, he made a no comment interview and he was aggressive throughout the whole
43:29night.
43:30The driver did likewise. But off the record, he started to indicate he was willing to give information about Carl
43:38Williams and others.
43:39And we knew then that we had our first crack in, you know, what is loosely called the underworld code
43:46of silence.
43:51Next time in the Naked City.
43:54We just needed a breakthrough. Where were we going to go from here?
43:59The establishment were not going to let this occur without consequences.
44:04And it brought Mick Gatto into it.
44:08You generally don't do deals with murderers.
44:14Without the driver, they'd have a problem connecting Williams.
44:19But we could make things happen if we made a brave decision.
44:24He would be the best person to do that.
44:30Two murders in a week, the pressure did build and the pressure didn't stop.
44:34It was just out of control.
44:37The murder, the crime, the war.
44:42This has got to stop.
44:44I mean, he's, uh, uh, nope.
44:47This isdown administrations.
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