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00:00Lost Women of Alaska is such an incredible documentary, true crime, and with us today we have executive producer of
00:10Momentum Content, Christina Douglas, executive producer of October Films, Matt Robbins, and Octavia Spencer, executive producer, executive producer, we don't
00:20throw those credits out, we earn them.
00:26Oh, it's on the back of this week's Variety, there you go, we got a plug right there.
00:31I need about 50 of them.
00:35Let me tell you, those three episodes are really hard to watch, you know, we've heard about this story, it
00:41is an important story because it gives voices to indigenous women and women who are on the margins of society,
00:49who no longer unfortunately have voices, I know it began with you, Christina, talk a little bit about that and
00:57why it's a personal story for you.
00:59Of course, yes, I've been tracking MMIW cases for a long time, I've been doing true crime TV for, I'm
01:06not going to give you the number of years, but around 2016 I started tracking the crisis and the movement,
01:12the hashtag MMIW movement,
01:15and the reason I did that is because I am indigenous, I grew up on the Shinnecock Reservation in Southampton,
01:20New York, and of course, you know, my whole life I've been wanting to bring indigenous stories to the screen,
01:26and with my experience in true crime I thought, you know, wow, like I can really use my platform to
01:31shed light and spread awareness on these cases.
01:34But of course, that time period, 2017 was long before this case actually took place, and so when that came
01:41across my desk, I had been tracking it, and I just, I brought it to these guys, and I brought
01:47it to ID,
01:48and I was like, I think this is a really important story that sheds light on so many important themes
01:53within the MMIW movement, you know,
01:55it's sort of the perfect example of someone who exploited the system, exploited systemic racism and bias in order to,
02:02unfortunately, commit murder.
02:05Matt and Octavia, for you, what made you say yes to this story?
02:12I mean, this story is a once-in-a-lifetime story for me. I feel that we were very fortunate
02:19to have the chance to tell it, frankly.
02:21I mean, when Christina came to ID with the story, and ID came to us and said, we think this
02:26could be a good one to go forward with on Lost Women as a franchise we had made, a previous
02:32series together.
02:34I think what really stood out to me was the opportunity to come and tell a story on two levels.
02:39You know, on one level, it can be a true crime thriller.
02:42It's the story of women being taken from the street at random.
02:46Nobody really knows who's behind it. Nobody really knows why it's happening.
02:51And as a viewer, you can watch it on that level and kind of participate in the kind of unfolding
02:56mystery of who is doing this and why are they doing this.
02:58But I think the bigger and more important element of the story was this opportunity to kind of shine a
03:04light on what is really a crisis happening in Alaska.
03:08You know, if you're a native woman in Alaska, you are ten times more likely to be the victim of
03:13murder than a white woman.
03:16And it's very real. It's very hard.
03:18And I think that we were highly motivated to tell the story in the right way as a result.
03:24Exactly that.
03:25And I think for me, it was a natural progression to tell these stories about lost women and being a
03:35black woman and understanding how underserved, marginalized communities are.
03:42But it was a no-brainer.
03:45And also, very seldom do we see justice meted out for these communities.
03:53And there was something beautifully strong about the community coming together, like all of the aspects, the whole aspects of
04:03this story.
04:05Sadly, they still linger because there's so many other voices that are still quieted and haven't found justice.
04:15Sorry.
04:16I know the conversation's here and also here.
04:20So, for me, it was a no-brainer to have Alaska as a part of the Lost Women series.
04:27And also, a massive thank you to Jason Sarlanis and the team because they understood the importance of this story
04:37and how it serves society to acknowledge the pain.
04:43There are some, I mean, it opens with Alaska as a serial killer's playground.
04:48And then the stat of, like, 1,300 missing Indigenous women, like, you know, that is, that in itself is
04:58crazy.
04:59But then you start hearing, you know, Amber's story, who gives voice to the victims, Cassandra, Kathleen, Joe Henry, Veronica.
05:08How did you find the people to tell the story?
05:14Like, where does that begin?
05:17Well, I would say thanks to Christina, we were able to, and frankly, thanks to Warner Brothers Discovery, rarely in
05:25documentary making do you have time and resources.
05:28You might have one, you never have the other, but in this case, we had both, and we had the
05:33resource to be able to put boots on the ground in Alaska.
05:37Christina had already made incredible outreach to advocacy groups.
05:41So there's a woman who features in the series called Amber Bats, who, you know, she's leading the advocacy around
05:48protecting sex workers in Anchorage.
05:50And the sex worker community is ultimately where the serial killer sets his targets.
05:55There's another woman in the series called Heather Paskowski, who is a vital advocate in Anchorage around sort of native
06:02awareness, you know,
06:03and sort of promoting the kinds of issues that the series discusses.
06:09So we were very careful about not just showing up with a script.
06:16We went, we spent time, we listened, we learned.
06:19We did not do much talking or really any shooting for a period of time.
06:23I think thanks to the roots that Christina had put down, we were able to then build as producers and
06:29start to work on the story.
06:30Yeah, you know.
06:32Yeah.
06:32Yes.
06:36Well, having, you know, been tracking these cases for so long and having roots in the indigenous community across the
06:42nation and not just in Alaska,
06:44you know, it's, it's, uh, really, it's a community that has been through a lot, you know,
06:51and they haven't been heard and then they have spoken to media.
06:54Sometimes they have felt that their story was exploited or misrepresented.
06:59And so it was really important to us that we go into this community informed and just listening and, you
07:05know, really understanding that we will never fully understand the nuances of their lives and their survivorship and what they've
07:11been through.
07:11Um, and we, um, and we, uh, all the best we can do is just, you know, just listen.
07:19Yeah.
07:21Yeah.
07:22Yeah.
07:23Yeah.
07:23And, uh,
07:25me takes a twist like what was that moment for you i mean for for me i would say the
07:34opportunity
07:35to interview brian smith in jail was a really crucial turning point for all of us because what
07:42do you do you know we're deliberately trying to make a series that centers the voices of women
07:46the experiences of women but there is the perpetrator right there you know and you are
07:52given an opportunity in alaska there's no bar on walking in and filming inside a jail and we weighed
07:59that decision very heavily and what we decided to do was we would have amber who was the advocate i
08:05just mentioned she would go in with unanswered questions and we would film her talking to brian
08:09smith so the the idea was really this is an opportunity for him to provide closure for the
08:16families that he's hurt you know will he give up the location of the body of one of his victims
08:21who
08:21still to this day has not been discovered um and so that for me was an enormous turning point because
08:28it was it was conflicting and i think it shows the level of access that we were able to gain
08:32that we
08:32were we were so embedded in this story that you know the opportunity to talk to a serial killer is
08:38something that i've seen handled really badly in the past and it's a weight that sits with you you
08:43know you have to make the right call in that situation but um how about you i don't know no
08:48yeah i
08:49mean sort of related to that um an unexpected moment for me was when we had gotten the hours
08:55of footage that brian had self-shot so he had um self-shot himself torturing and murdering one of
09:02the victims and we had nine plus hours of that content and you know when you're a documentary
09:06filmmaker you're like okay let's gather as much real footage as possible let's show as much as
09:10possible and in that moment you know when we had actually witnessed it it was a decision that we
09:17i don't think went into it expecting to make right we were like we're not showing this
09:21exactly we're only going to show anything that's pertinent to the investigation because you know
09:24that's the driving sort of spine of the documentary um but you know we maybe heard some of his voice
09:32i
09:32think that was important to the investigation showing maybe screenshots of uh ceilings of the hotel
09:36room that it was in so people have an understanding of where and how it happened but we certainly
09:41weren't going to we had to make the decision to tell audiences producers have decided to not show this
09:46because of the the heaviness the darkness and you know it didn't serve our audience or um or the
09:55victims for us to show it and i think that's what's important here sadly i have a lot of knowledge
10:04that's asked me about any serial killer and then asked me about no seriously it's terrible knowledge
10:11that we have um but i feel like this case is different because you know the victims uh you
10:19this is their story not his and i i love that we made that choice i think it was an
10:25important choice
10:26to make to center the victims voices
10:33and i you know it was so brave of amber to sit down with brian you know like what was
10:41that like
10:42seeing her just because he totally gaslights her as we you know as we know what was that like watching
10:49that and feeling the pain that she's experiencing because that is captured so well like seeing that
10:57and you're like i just want to do something to him but yeah you know there we use words so
11:07often
11:07that they lose their um strength like when we say oh it was so brave but we've heard brave so
11:15much that
11:15when you actually see it played out and um and and you wonder if in that situation what how would
11:24you
11:24conduct yourself how would you maintain your power but also know that it it it evoked a lot of um
11:32emotions for me um but also i i have to say the word that describes um how completely vulnerable
11:42and brave she was and i thought yes honey oh oh you know and you know what i mean but
11:50but all of you
11:50saw the the show i mean am i am i just is this just me even though i'm a producer
11:55on it we all
11:56we all felt that visceral pain but also the strength that it took for her to do that um what
12:03about
12:03what about you guys what i agree and i think she also sort of represents multiple other characters
12:09in our film who were brave and went against you know took the risk to bring forward information
12:15put themselves on the line to bring for that information that ended up getting him locked up
12:20for 226 years right like these women are powerful women and it's just it's amazing to see it live
12:28so you talked about it earlier a little bit but the goal of the series is to raise awareness of
12:32alaska's mmip crisis what can we do as people sitting here today as a call to action well here's the
12:40thing guys we all are on social media and that's how we get a lot of information these days how
12:49many
12:50times does a missing person face tick across your screen do you hit share and if you don't hit share
12:57do you realize that that's the one thing that you can do to help get that story out there if
13:02you're
13:03not sharing the story chances are no one else is either so i think it's just to be present if
13:09and
13:09aware that if all i need to do is hit share to let someone else know that i see them
13:14and that their pain
13:16is recognized and and in this small way i can help that's just what regular everyday people can do
13:22one easy thing and christina what does it mean for you to have the story out there raising
13:33it's so emotional honestly it's been such a ride again you know it's been like seven plus years of
13:40me trying to get this across the line and pitching it to a lot of executives who were like looking
13:43at
13:43me glossy-eyed and didn't get it and i think that really goes to show just how amazing the execs
13:48are at
13:48id they you know it locked in for them right and they saw the opportunity here um and so you
13:53know
13:53to be able to work with these two it's such an honor for them to bring this forward and put
13:58everything
13:59they have and lead with empathy for these victims when that's unfortunately not the tendency for a
14:04lot of like you know american media right we don't bring a lot of uh there's so much victim blaming
14:09right and a lot of negativity around these victims and um we did the opposite with our film and i'm
14:15just
14:15so proud of it you know we did like a search on social media afterwards just to see how people
14:21are responding and for me seeing one local people in anchorage in alaska saying i feel seen this is you
14:29know my story is being told these stories are being told this is a beautiful reflection of the realities
14:34of living in anchorage it's not alaska the great adventure frontier this is no this is what it's like
14:40to be in the streets of anchorage right this is this is the local experience and then also to see
14:45if you look at other mmiw advocates and communities around the whole nation they're all responding and
14:52saying finally someone's like shedding light on on this on these types of cases and perhaps there's
14:57takeaways here that we can apply for our loved ones and our communities i think you make a really good
15:03point as well because i think that one thing we try to do with the series is challenge these kind
15:07of
15:08orthodoxies that you're often told as a producer there are some things you just can't touch or places
15:12you can't go so when you go out and pitch a true crime series you'll often be told your serial
15:17killer
15:17is not famous enough you know it has to be ted bundy it has to be btk or people aren't
15:22going to show up
15:22you'll also be told that the audience doesn't have empathy for sex workers you know that you can't
15:28possibly make a show about the murder of women who happen to exist on the street or are unhoused or
15:33you know having to do things that they don't necessarily want to do to make a couple of bucks
15:37and i think i'm so pleased that we were able to make this series because it does challenge those
15:43kind of lines that are drawn in the sand and those lines are so restrictive um so you know jason
15:48and
15:48the team at warner brothers discovery enabled us to really go in there and tell the story that we
15:52wanted to tell and that is a rare thing and the women finally have a voice thanks to lost women
16:00of
16:01alaska so your call to action is the next missing person that shows up on your timeline you're going
16:07to share it and then you're going to spread the word to go and watch lost women of alaska which
16:12is
16:12streaming on hbo max and i want to say thank you all so much for that and thank you for
16:16telling the
16:16story more importantly thank you stay seated for the next conversation thank you all
16:21you
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