- 2 hours ago
In an era marked by growing polarisation, multicultural societies such as Australia and Malaysia continue grappling with questions surrounding faith, identity, and coexistence. Join Nailah Huda as she speaks with Imam Shadi Alsuleiman, President of the Australian National Imams Council to understand how global Muslim connections can be strengthened through dialogue and shared values.
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00:06This is Awani Global with me, Nailah Huda.
00:09And across multicultural societies like Australia and Malaysia,
00:13questions surrounding faith, identity, coexistence and social harmony continue to shape public discourse,
00:20especially amid growing concerns over Islamophobia and global polarisation.
00:25Just recently in Australia, they witnessed another disturbing incident involving threats directed at worshippers at a mosque in Brisbane.
00:33To discuss these recent issues and much wider the lived realities of Muslim communities in Australia and abroad,
00:42the role of Islamic leadership in fostering unity and compassion and how global Muslim connections across diasporas,
00:50across different communities can be strengthened through dialogue and shared values.
00:56I'm here to discuss all of this and unpack.
00:58Joining me in the studio, very honoured to have Imam Shadi Al-Sulaiman,
01:02President, Founding Member and Chair of the Australian National Imams Council, ANIC.
01:07Thank you so much for joining us today.
01:08Thank you for having me.
01:09I hope you're well.
01:10And of course, I hear that you've been visiting here a lot.
01:13So I'm assuming you're familiarised already with, you know, how Malaysian society is like.
01:19Of course, if we were to see Australia and Malaysia both very multicultural, international societies,
01:25but at the same time with significant Muslim communities growing as well in Australia.
01:31How would you describe the sort of lived reality of being both deeply rooted in faith,
01:37but also at the same time navigating this highly diverse multicultural society?
01:41Well, thank you for having me and good day to you and to your audience.
01:46Islam has been long in Australia and the first interaction of the indigenous people with the outside world was with
01:53Muslims.
01:54The people from Makassar, Silawasi, who came to Australia 500 years ago before the European settlement in 1770.
02:01And after the European settlement in the early 1800s, the Australian people brought into Australia a lot of Muslims,
02:11as known as the Afghan Kamulis, to connect the transportation between the different vast cities in Australia.
02:18So Australia has a very long history of Islam and Muslims have been in Australia for many, many years
02:25and they've been part of the Australian fabric for a very long time.
02:29In the late 60s, you had the big influx of Muslim migration that came to Australia,
02:34including my parents who came in the late 60s to Australia from Palestine, Palestine.
02:39And now you've got a large number of second, third and fourth generation of Australian Muslims
02:45who have no other home for them except Australia.
02:47And as you mentioned, Australia is a very multicultural, multi-faith society, very mixed with a very colourful country.
02:56I do believe, and I know this is coming biased out of me, that Australia is one of, if not
03:01the most successful, multicultural country in the world.
03:05And that is because multiculturalism is the core foundation of the country from the very beginning.
03:10And we continue to see the fruits of that and we continue to see the social harmony among the different
03:17communities
03:18in the colourful society that we have in Australia.
03:20And it's all about making sure that we maintain this and at the same time foster it.
03:26Yes, along the way, we will face challenges as we continue to face challenges, but this is part and parcel
03:32of life.
03:33We hear that a lot about Australia being one of the most successful multicultural societies.
03:38It's not without its challenges, of course, as you say.
03:40And in this modern, this digital age, we're hearing a lot of problems, issues that's faced by many young Muslims
03:48today,
03:49not just in Australia, of course, in Malaysia, across the globe,
03:51trying to balance these pressures of faith, identity, family expectations, modern societal pressures as well.
04:00Amongst these, what are the kind of challenges that you see emerging most prominently, perhaps among Australian Muslim youth?
04:09We do face challenges.
04:12Our social harmony gets tested from time to time, from domestic challenges, from overseas challenges.
04:21The war in the Middle East is having an impact.
04:24However, we need to also have a better understanding how do we communicate with one another,
04:29understand the other, not always being isolated in our own circles.
04:33I do understand and appreciate that every faith community do believe that their faith is the genuine and true religion,
04:41including myself.
04:42I believe Islam is the true religion and the way that connects me to Allah.
04:46But at the same time, we need to accept the fact that there are other people with other faiths,
04:50other cultures with other customs, and we need to at least respect that.
04:55Not necessarily to agree with it, but respect that there are other societies, other communities, other faiths,
05:01such as Australia, for example.
05:03Islam only makes 3.2% of the entire population.
05:07And then we've got other faiths.
05:08We've got the Christians, we've got the Jews, we've got the Hindus, we've got people of no faith.
05:12In the last 2021 census, about 50% of the Australian people identify with no faith.
05:19Not necessarily that we have to agree on everything, but we need to accept the fact that we need to
05:23have an understanding of one another.
05:25And the best way to move forward with that is to have a dialogue, communicate, come out of our circles,
05:31and engage with other people and start fostering a better understanding of other cultures, other faiths.
05:36That will help me and help others and help Ibron.
05:40Talking about these challenges, of course, in recent months, years as well,
05:46we've seen challenges and moments of social tension and Islamophobia, of course, as I've mentioned, in recent times.
05:52What are some of the lessons that you've learned about building this resilience, this coexistence,
05:57this understanding that you spoke of?
05:59Awareness and education, it goes a long way.
06:01And it starts from the very beginning of a young age to the adults, community leaders, everyone.
06:07We need to have a better awareness and understanding of one another.
06:10And unfortunately, there's always the fear of the unknown.
06:14When you don't know the other side, because you never engage with the other side, there's always that fear.
06:19And this is where the unfortunate case, there's a rise of Islamophobia and anti-Muslim sentiment,
06:24because a lot of people don't understand Muslims.
06:26And a lot of those people, who might have a prejudice or hate towards Islam and Muslims,
06:31they've never engaged with a Muslim.
06:33I've sat down with some people, and I was successful in bringing them a bit closer,
06:38and some of them maybe even closer than a bit.
06:41And the reason that they just had that prejudice towards Islam and Muslims,
06:44they've never engaged with a Muslim.
06:45I've asked that question to many of them.
06:47Have you ever met with a Muslim?
06:49And they'll always turn around and say, you are the first Muslim they ever met with.
06:52And then when they speak to you, they realize that you are like them and understanding like them,
06:56and you care about Australia like them, and you speak the same language and accent,
07:00and you share a lot in common, people start coming around.
07:03So education, awareness, dialogue will go a long way.
07:09Still on the same note on Islamophobia, of course,
07:12recently Australia witnessed another disturbing incident involving threats directed at worshippers at a mosque in Brisbane.
07:19How concerned are you about what appears to be this growing normalization of anti-Muslim sentiment?
07:25As you said, it grows from this fear of the unknown.
07:28But do you see this being normalized in perhaps mainstream spaces like the media?
07:34Absolutely.
07:35Islamophobia, unfortunately, is on the rise in Australia and many other Western countries.
07:40Many factors did contribute towards that.
07:43One of them is the political and the media narrative.
07:46You have some media agencies who have a particular agenda in trying to demonize and dehumanize Islam and Muslims.
07:55And you have some political leaders who are trying also to demonize and dehumanize Islam and Muslims.
08:01And that contributes towards Islamophobia and anti-Muslim sentiment,
08:05which unfortunately it feeds to some people who might not have the sensible mind or might not have an understanding.
08:13And some people might think the best way to progress in their agenda is to take things in their own
08:19hands.
08:20Like the situation that you mentioned a few days ago.
08:23Actually, I received the call two days ago and I was informed and briefed that someone walked inside the mosque
08:29and threatened the people in that mosque in Brisbane that he has a weapon in his car.
08:34That's petrifying.
08:36And that should not happen not to a mosque, not to a synagogue, not to a church, not to any
08:41place of worship.
08:42Public places of worship should be a place of sanctity, respect and calmness and peace.
08:47And it's very unfortunate to see and hear that.
08:50In Australia, yes, Islamophobia has been on the rise.
08:54And we all have a responsibility to handle this situation.
08:59A responsibility from my end as a Muslim leader to reach out more
09:03and get people to have a better understanding of Islam and Muslims.
09:06And the great history that we take pride in,
09:09that Islam has been part of the Australian fabric for a very long time.
09:12There's not us and them, there's only we.
09:15We are all part of this society.
09:17Yes, we might have different faiths and different colours and different cultures,
09:20but we all care about the land and we care about the safety and the security of Australia like everyone
09:24else.
09:25And I always say that.
09:26The safety and the security of my country, Australia,
09:29is not part of me as an Australian, but that's also part of me as a Muslim,
09:32because my faith teaches me that.
09:34Islam teaches me to take care of the land that I live in,
09:37whether this land is dominated by Muslims or not.
09:40Alhamdulillah, we have that faith that teaches us that.
09:42And it's the responsibility of the political leaders to have a balanced discourse,
09:47because an imbalanced discourse, a negative discourse can trickle down,
09:53can have an impact on the society.
09:56And media agencies have a responsibility to have a balanced reporting when it comes to other communities,
10:03whether the Muslim community and others are not continue pushing a prejudice narrative towards a particular community,
10:09because the more you do that is the more you start isolating communities.
10:12And the last thing that we want to see, any community to be isolated,
10:15and then we'll start creating a rift and we'll start creating a wedge between the entire community and the entire
10:21society,
10:22in which we don't want to see that.
10:24Looking at the other side of the coin, tell us a little bit about some of the concerns,
10:28the anxieties within the Muslim community there.
10:31I mean, I can't help but to draw some parallels between this and the sort of anti-immigrant rhetoric
10:37that we're also seeing across the world, especially in Western societies.
10:40And I'm reminded of this issue that we hear of the model minority or model immigrant stereotype
10:48in which minority groups need to sort of put up this perfection,
10:56this sort of model that society can look towards in order to sort of avoid the sort of scrutiny that
11:03they face
11:04in this environment of hatred and anxiety.
11:09So tell us a little bit about some of the concerns that they've perhaps shared with you
11:13and what they hope to see being improved in a sort of multicultural setting.
11:19As you mentioned, in Western countries, including Australia, there are voices
11:24and there is a strong campaign of anti-immigration.
11:29And it's very unfortunate to say a lot of those people are becoming anti-immigration,
11:33have no idea what immigration is, and they forget their background.
11:37And it surprises me so many times, a lot of those people, whether there are political leaders
11:42or others at the forefront of the anti-immigration campaign, they were migrants themselves.
11:47So they were given great opportunities to migrate to Australia,
11:49but they want to deprive other people from getting this opportunity.
11:53And there's a very common saying in Australia that the beautiful Australia that we see right now
11:59is built on the backs of migrants.
12:01And more than 50% of the Australian people, if not more, they come from a migrant background.
12:07And about 25% to 30% of Australian people have one parent or two who are born overseas,
12:15including myself.
12:16Both of my parents were born overseas.
12:17So I'm a proud son of Palestinian migrants, and I'm also a proud Australian,
12:22who's living in Australia, and inshallah will be living in Australia forever.
12:26So it's very unfortunate to see that anti-immigration rhetoric,
12:30which stems out of severe and serious ignorance and education.
12:35One thing that I understand a lot of those people who are anti-immigration,
12:40there is that sense of care over the land, there is that sense of care over the country they live
12:45in.
12:46But that care needs to be channeled towards a positive progress moving forward,
12:50not dividing the nation.
12:52Immigrants are there, they've been there for a very long time,
12:55and most of the migrants, in particular in the Muslim community,
12:59are second and third generation, even fourth generation.
13:03So someone who's born and raised in Australia and now has children that's born and raised in Australia,
13:08we're Australians like everyone else.
13:10The only difference is that we have different faith,
13:13we might have different colour of skin,
13:14but we all share the Australian country that we live in,
13:18and we are proud to share that.
13:20So we see that.
13:22Australia, so far, I wouldn't rate Australia as one of the worst Western countries of the anti-immigration campaigns.
13:30We've seen the anti-immigration campaigns in other Western countries.
13:34Australia, till now, I would say, is still more balanced,
13:37because we have very open-minded leadership.
13:40We have very open-minded political leaders.
13:43Not all, of course, but we do have open-minded leaders there.
13:46The current Australian government is a very colourful government too.
13:50We have people in leadership, we have politicians and ministers in leadership who come from different backgrounds,
13:56including our Foreign Affairs Minister, who she comes from Malaysia, from Sabah.
14:00And our Minister Wong very well, and she's a very proud Australian,
14:03but also proud Malaysian heritage.
14:05And we have other ministers like Anne Ali, a Muslim minister that serves in cabinet,
14:11and many other ministers who come from different backgrounds.
14:14And this is what Australia is about.
14:17Australia is about this beautiful, colourful society that we all care about Australia as a country,
14:22we care about Australia as a nation,
14:23and we work together towards the greater good and prosperity of the country.
14:26I want to go back to interfaith engagement, as you say, this fear of the unknown.
14:32In times where global conflicts can easily polarise communities,
14:37not just offline, but especially online, a much bigger challenge there.
14:41How important is interfaith engagement today?
14:44Some of the lessons learned that perhaps you can share with Malaysia
14:47that's also struggling to, or still learning to overcome this issue.
14:53Absolutely, very important. It's very important that we engage with everyone,
14:57with those that we agree with, and those that we disagree with.
15:01Frankly speaking, Nayla, within our own community, the Muslim community,
15:04we don't agree 100%.
15:06We have over 370 imams in the Australian National Imams Council,
15:09who are all Muslims, we're all Sunnis, we all share the same book,
15:13we all follow the same prophet, the same doctrine, and we don't agree on many issues.
15:17Of course, yeah.
15:17So how do I expect to agree with a non-Muslim,
15:20or agree with someone of different faith, of non-faith?
15:23We need to accept the fact that disagreement will always be there.
15:27It's not about disagreeing. It's about how we disagree.
15:30And we can disagree, but we can disagree also respectfully.
15:34While I continue holding fast on to my opinion, you hold fast on to it.
15:38We keep the disagreement there, but the dialogue needs to continue.
15:41And that's one of the models that we've seen very successful in Australia,
15:45in which we work very closely with other faith communities,
15:47because we see there's a common interest when it comes to preserving faith,
15:52and the sanctity of faith, and believing in God.
15:55Whether this person believes in Allah, or this person believes in Jesus,
15:57or this person believes in other faiths,
16:00I'm a very proud Muslim.
16:02I believe in Allah.
16:03But I also believe that there are other people in this space
16:06that I need to also respect their space while I disagree with them,
16:10and work together towards the common good,
16:12the common interest that benefits everyone as a whole.
16:16And interfaith, interfaith dialogues, engagements, engaging,
16:20is very, very important.
16:21We've seen the success of that,
16:23where we exchange visits between different faith groups,
16:26have a better understanding of the other faith.
16:29And as I mentioned, not necessarily I have to agree,
16:32or I have to be convinced what the other faith is doing,
16:35but at least there's that line of communication,
16:37there's that dialogue, there's that understanding
16:39that this big space, there are other people in this big space.
16:43Not we're all bubbled in a little circle,
16:45where we believe the entire world lives in that circle.
16:47No, we are all in a big circle,
16:49living in smaller circles,
16:50sharing that big circle with other smaller circles around us.
16:55You emphasise on engagement,
16:57on breaking out of this bubble or this echo chamber,
17:00and you talk about this unknown,
17:03this othering of Muslim communities there.
17:05What were some of the misconceptions,
17:08some of the myths about Islam or Muslim leadership
17:10in Western societies that you feel still need to be challenged,
17:13some of the stereotypes that you're still hearing?
17:16The biggest challenge is people misunderstanding Islam.
17:19There is that perception of Islam is a violent religion,
17:22not here to conform, not here to integrate,
17:25not to be part of the society,
17:26which is completely wrong and false.
17:28In particular in Australia,
17:30Islam had contributed to the prosperity
17:32and the advancement of the wonderful country
17:35that we're living in right now for many, many decades.
17:38Likewise, with Islam contributing to the West
17:42and contributing to the Muslim countries and non-Muslim countries.
17:46And that stems out of ignorance, as I mentioned before,
17:48where there is a lot of negative publicities around Islam.
17:52There's a lot of negative propaganda against Islam.
17:56People not understanding what Islam is about.
17:58And Islam here not to accept the other.
18:00Islam here is to dominate,
18:01which is completely untrue.
18:03Islam here is to serve and to be part of Iran.
18:06And we've seen that from not in the last two, three hundred years.
18:10We've seen that from the time of the Prophet Muhammad,
18:12peace be upon him.
18:13And we've seen how the Prophet signed
18:17even a respectful agreement and covenants
18:20with other faiths during his time.
18:22Yes, you do have small factions
18:24and you do have small groups of people in the Muslim world
18:28who try and hijack Islam towards a particular agenda.
18:31But those groups exist in every faith,
18:35in every community and in every religion.
18:37We need to make sure that we continue advocating
18:40the mainstream understanding of Islam
18:42with the traditional understanding of the Quran and Sunnah
18:46that's been taught by the Prophet and his companions
18:48and the mainstream scholars across the world
18:50and the balanced understanding,
18:52moderate understanding of Islam
18:53as it has been adopted,
18:55as it has been taught by the vast majority
18:57of Muslim scholars around the world,
18:58including Malaysia.
18:59And Malaysia is a great example
19:00of the balanced understanding of Islam,
19:03which is the traditional understanding of Islam
19:06in the present and the past.
19:08It's interesting you mentioned
19:09this balanced understanding of Islam.
19:13Maybe we can go back to that later.
19:14But I can't help but think of Palestine,
19:18of Palestine or Palestine, of course,
19:20being your background as well.
19:24You know, it is a, some people say
19:26it should be an a-religious fight.
19:28It is a humanitarian cause.
19:30But many, I think, in mainstream spaces
19:35in either social media, in mainstream media
19:38or even politicians and leaders around the world,
19:41we of course can't help but associate
19:42the Palestinian cause with, you know, Muslims
19:47and Muslim solidarity.
19:49Do you think that there's this much greater awareness
19:52of Islam and, you know, Islamic values, principles
19:57when there is much greater awareness
19:59of the Palestinian cause as well?
20:00Do you think it goes hand in hand?
20:02In the last two years,
20:04we've seen that the Palestinian cause
20:06had surfaced a lot on the map
20:08and there's a greater understanding
20:09of the Palestinian cause
20:12and the Palestinian suffering.
20:13And the Palestinian suffering
20:15is not limited to Palestinian Muslims.
20:17Yes, the vast majority of are Muslims,
20:19but the Christian Palestinians
20:20are equally suffering
20:21like the Palestinian Muslims.
20:24And growing up in Australia,
20:26when I still remember when going to school,
20:28they used to ask me,
20:30where you're originally from?
20:31And I used to say, from Palestine.
20:32And a lot of people told me,
20:33where's that?
20:34I'm talking about 40 years ago.
20:38But right now,
20:40no one would ever say where Palestine is.
20:42So now, Palestine is really on the map
20:44and there's greater awareness
20:45and understanding of the country
20:49and the state of Palestine.
20:50And there's an understanding
20:51of the suffering of the Palestinian people
20:53that's been more than 76 or 77 years.
20:58And the Australian people in general
21:00are very open-minded people.
21:02And we are very fortunate
21:04to have a lot of support
21:06that stems out of humanitarian care,
21:10not particular towards any faith
21:12or any religion,
21:13just people as humans
21:14don't want to see any nation
21:16or any community to suffer,
21:18in particular what had happened in Gaza
21:19and what's happening in Palestine.
21:21And last year,
21:22we're also fortunate to have
21:23the recognition of the state of Palestine.
21:25The Australian government
21:26did recognize the state of Palestine,
21:27which goes a long way.
21:29And that's something
21:30that we've been advocating
21:31for for a very long time.
21:33So you see that the Palestinian people
21:36and the suffering of the Palestinian people
21:39had emerged a lot in the last two years.
21:41People have a better understanding.
21:43People have a better awareness.
21:44And we hope that we can bring people together
21:47to understand the suffering
21:48of what the Palestinian people
21:49have been going through
21:51for more than 76 years.
21:52And it's coming out of a humanitarian,
21:54people that have that human side of them.
21:57They don't want to see innocent people
21:58being killed.
21:59They don't want to see lands being occupied.
22:02They don't want to see any community
22:03being displaced.
22:05Lastly, going back to all the points
22:07that you mentioned there
22:08about this, this solidarity,
22:10this need to stand united
22:12regardless of religious lines.
22:14But I think there's a lot
22:16that can be learned
22:16from the Australian Muslim community
22:19can be applied in the Malaysian
22:21multicultural setting,
22:23of course, a lot of similar challenges.
22:24How important is dialogue,
22:26do you think,
22:26between Muslim communities?
22:28We talk about interfaith engagement,
22:30but to strengthen
22:31this sort of engagement
22:32and unity between Muslim communities
22:34from different parts of the world
22:35in addressing today's challenges.
22:37I mean, we share so many challenges,
22:39similar issues of Islamophobia,
22:42of this kind of scrutiny and anxiety,
22:44this hatred that's being thrown
22:47our ways in the face
22:49of Muslim communities.
22:51How important do you think it is
22:52to sort of reconnect
22:53and look at the sort of network
22:55that we can build across the globe?
22:57We need to start with opening our mindset
22:59and accepting that we need to engage
23:00with other people
23:01and we need to engage
23:03and start understanding other communities
23:04and have a better understanding
23:05of their culture,
23:07of their doctrine,
23:07of their belief
23:08and keep that line of communications open.
23:11But it starts with the mindset.
23:12If I'm going to have a closed mindset,
23:13it doesn't matter how much
23:14I engage with other people,
23:15the mind will always stay closed.
23:17And that's where education comes
23:19and awareness comes in
23:21and plays a huge role
23:22in people accepting the other.
23:24And we need to accept
23:25that we live in a world
23:26that it's not only one colour,
23:28it's not one faith,
23:28it's not one race.
23:29And we live in countries
23:31and societies like Malaysia and Australia.
23:33It's not one colour,
23:34it's not one race,
23:35it's not one faith.
23:36And we need to accept the fact
23:37that in order for all of us,
23:39all of us,
23:40people of faith
23:41and different faith
23:42and people of no faith,
23:43in order for us
23:43to advance and progress,
23:44we all need to have
23:45an open mind
23:46and accepting one another
23:47in moving forward.
23:48Not necessarily to agree
23:49with one another,
23:50but to accept that
23:51others do exist.
23:52And the best way
23:53for us to continue
23:55co-exist
23:56and for us to continue
23:57progressing
23:58and advancing as humans
23:59is that we need
24:00to accept each other
24:01as being other people
24:02of faith and race.
24:03And the best way
24:04for us to advance
24:06as a nation,
24:06as a community,
24:07is for us to have
24:08that open dialogue
24:09and open mindset.
24:10Thank you so much
24:11for sharing your thoughts
24:12with us.
24:12Thank you for having me.
24:14Yeah, it was very insightful.
24:15Thank you so much.
24:16That was Imam Shadi Al Sulaiman,
24:17President,
24:18Founding Member
24:18and Chair of the
24:19Australian National
24:20Imams Council,
24:21sharing some thoughts
24:22and of course
24:22the shared challenges
24:23that we have
24:24in Australia and Malaysia,
24:26in multicultural societies
24:28and at the same time
24:29facing the sort of
24:30divisive hatred
24:31that we're seeing
24:32in mainstream media,
24:33in politics as well.
24:35A lot of challenges
24:36to overcome
24:36but of course
24:37it comes down to dialogue
24:38and sticking together.
24:40Thank you once again.
24:41That is all on Awanit Global
24:42this week with me.
24:43Nala Huda.
24:43We'll catch you next time.
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