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00:00The cruise ship is now expected to arrive in Spain's Canary Islands this weekend and it's unclear if the passengers
00:06who on board have been exposed to Hanta virus or not, you know, obviously people on board died, but it's
00:13unclear if everyone on board was exposed or not. Some may not have been. The fatality rate of the virus
00:17is up to 40 percent. Tonight we are hearing what the captain of the ship told passengers, though, when the
00:23first person on board died of the virus.
00:30The passengers suddenly passed away last night. Tragic as it is, it was due to natural causes, we believe. And
00:43also, whatever issues you're struggling with, I'm told by the doctor, they're not infections. So the ship is safe when
00:54it comes to this.
00:58Now, of course, at the time, they only knew what they knew. It obviously was infectious. It was the Hanta
01:04virus. But that's what they thought then. And that determined how it was handled from there. Brian Todd is out
01:10front to begin our coverage. He's in Arlington, Virginia. And that's one of the states I mentioned, Brian, where health
01:14officials are monitoring a cruise, a passenger from that ship. So what more are you learning?
01:21Well, Aaron, health officials here in the state of Virginia say it is their understanding that there were fewer than
01:2630 U.S. citizens on board that vessel, the MV Hondias.
01:30Health officials across the United States telling CNN they are monitoring at least three people who disembarked from the Hondias
01:37and have returned back to the United States.
01:39Officials in Georgia say that two residents there are under observation and they have shown no symptoms.
01:45Health officials in Arizona say there is one person there who they're monitoring who is also asymptomatic, but also one
01:51person here in the state of Virginia who disembarked from the Hondias in recent days and has come back to
01:57this state is being monitored.
01:59That person so far, they say, is OK. Here is a statement we got just a few hours ago from
02:04the Virginia Department of Health saying this, quote,
02:06To date, one Virginia traveler who was on the MV Hondias disembarked the ship and has returned home.
02:12This person is currently in good health and is under public health monitoring.
02:16A small number, five or fewer, of other potentially exposed Virginians might be identified in the days ahead.
02:24And they say, generally speaking, we believe the risk to the general public to be low.
02:28That is a statement from officials here, health officials in the state of Virginia.
02:33There is another web page that is reporting that a medical web page that is reporting that other Americans from
02:40the Hondias have disembarked and returned to the state of Texas.
02:43There is also information that Americans have returned to the state of California, as you mentioned, Aaron.
02:49Now, as far as the fears of a COVID-19 type outbreak, we know that the WHO has said that
02:55they do expect more cases to emerge, but they do not expect a large epidemic like COVID-19.
03:01But as you've been reporting, Aaron, the danger here is that so many passengers have already disembarked from the Hondias
03:07and gotten on airplanes and flown to places all over the world, including, we know, at least people, at least
03:13four people being monitored in several states here in the United States.
03:17Brian Todd, thank you very much in Virginia tonight.
03:22Out front now, Dr. Stephen Kornfeld, he's on board the Hantavirus-hit cruise ship, and he has helped care for
03:28sick passengers.
03:29And, doctor, I very much appreciate your time.
03:31Of course, you're on that ship right now, and you started out just as a passenger, but you're a doctor.
03:36So when this started, you ended up helping treat people, including the ship's doctor.
03:42How did that happen?
03:46It sort of happened gradually.
03:49I knew one of the passengers was getting ill.
03:52This is at the end of April, and I just reached out and asked if I could assist the doc,
03:59make sure he felt he had adequate coverage.
04:03And I was told that the doctor was also sick.
04:06So over 12 to 24 hours, it became clear that there were a number of people sick and that they
04:13were getting sicker, and I sort of fell into the role of becoming the ship doctor.
04:20I know you treated the ship's doctor and that he was eventually, you were telling us, actually evacuated off the
04:25ship, which left you caring for other patients as well.
04:29I mean, can you describe the sorts of symptoms that you've seen, doctor?
04:35Well, there are three patients that seem to be getting ill around the same time.
04:41One of them, just very non-specific symptoms, a lot of confusion and a lot of weakness, and she ultimately
04:49passed away relatively quickly.
04:52The two other gentlemen, quite a bit younger, including the doc, just had a lot of standard viral symptoms, a
05:00lot of fever, fatigue, flushing, some GI issues, some shortness of breath.
05:07At the time, neither one of them looked critically ill, but the fear with Hantavirus is you can go from
05:14seriously ill to critically ill very, very quickly.
05:19You know, a woman yesterday who had survived Hantavirus was telling us exactly that, doctor.
05:24She had sort of flu-like symptoms.
05:27Suddenly she, in her case, it was a cough as her lungs filled, and she ends up in a medically
05:31induced coma on life support.
05:34How concerned are you about the potential for things to escalate?
05:39And for those patients, even now, that some of them have been evacuated?
05:46Well, when they're on the ship, I'm very concerned because the ability to treat somebody in that critical state here
05:54on this boat is non-existent.
05:56But now that they've been evacuated, they're in Denmark, I mean, they're getting magnificent care, even if such an event
06:04happened, they would get supported.
06:07And I think what happens with Hantavirus, ultimate survivability is really dependent on your ability to get critical care at
06:16the right time.
06:17And on the boat, that would not be possible.
06:19But now that they're in, you know, home and standard hospitals, that's entirely possible.
06:26So my concern level for them is now low, which is very relieving.
06:32I can only imagine, especially as you cared for them.
06:35And what is your feeling right now?
06:38I mean, you and everyone else on board, you're stuck there, essentially quarantined.
06:42And I know you don't know when you'll necessarily be able to get off, but also with the long incubation
06:47period of this virus, and even in your case, doctor, of course, just to be blunt, you were treating people
06:53who had it.
06:54How concerned are you about getting sick?
07:02Early on, we didn't know that it was Hantavirus until maybe May 3rd, May 2nd, May 3rd.
07:10But I started treating for people May 1st, just kind of have a feeling that this could be infectious.
07:16So from the beginning, I was trying to be very careful with masks and gowns.
07:21And once we found out it was Hantavirus and a second case happened, making it seem likely there was an
07:27infectious form, I was able to find some aprons and some goggles.
07:32I did a lot of hand washing and clothes washing.
07:34I think Hantavirus is hard to spread, even though on this ship it seemed to spread.
07:41And Dr. Horenfeld, do you and everyone else that's on board right now, just given that you have no idea
07:47when you can get off and if you'll be allowed to, you know, what is the mood?
07:52And how long do you think you'll be on board this ship?
07:59Well, I may be in a different circumstance than the other passengers because I had a lot more contact than
08:05they did.
08:06And we've been on this boat for five weeks.
08:09And the original patient episode was many, many weeks ago.
08:15And the remainder of the passengers have really had no contact with any of the sick people recently.
08:23So in some ways, most of the people on the boat have been in quarantine, isolation for three, four weeks.
08:30So I'm feeling pretty good that most people will get off the boat relatively rapidly.
08:36We now have two.
08:37During the evacuation, we were able to get two WHO epidemiologists and two Danish ID doctors.
08:45So now there's a great team on board who is really going through every aspect of this infection, how it
08:52spread, and what it means for the passengers remaining, both for their health and for their possible transmission down the
09:00road.
09:00So I'm feeling pretty good that most people will get off the boat relatively soon.
09:05And hopefully, I will get off soon also.
09:09Well, I mean, it's incredible what you were able to do.
09:12And when that doctor got sick, that you stepped in at that moment when there was no one, how lucky
09:18all of them were to have you there on that boat as you are there tonight.
09:22And thank you so much, doctor, for talking to me and for taking the time.
09:27Please stay well.
09:28And we'll talk to you soon, I hope.
09:30Thank you.
09:33I want to go now to Joseph Allen.
09:35He's a professor at Harvard University School of Public Health.
09:38And look, it's great to talk to you again.
09:40And Joseph, you've studied disease exposure.
09:42We've talked so many times.
09:43You were part of the Lancet's COVID Commission.
09:45So when you hear Dr. Kornfeld talking about the situation on board, you know, when they realized it was infectious
09:52and his role, obviously, in helping the ship doctor treat patients and then helping then treating the ship doctor himself,
09:59who then was evacuated.
10:01You know, what do you take away from everything that you just heard?
10:05Well, it's good to talk again, unfortunately, Aaron.
10:08But a couple of things I take away.
10:10First, what's happening on the ship is quite severe.
10:12This is a serious virus.
10:13And you hear it from the doctor.
10:15And we're very fortunate he stepped up.
10:16There are a couple of things that catch my attention in that last segment when he was speaking.
10:21I think it's great he's taking precautions like aprons and goggle and handwashing.
10:25But there is evidence that Hantavirus, the Andy strain, spreads human to human through the air.
10:30In fact, our best prior knowledge about transmission of this virus shows that it can be transmitted pretty effectively with
10:37no direct contact.
10:39So I would urge him and everyone on that ship and everyone treating these patients who are infected to pay
10:43attention to the things we've talked about all throughout COVID, good ventilation and good filtration.
10:49So let me just talk about something you said there, because this is obviously the crucial question, right?
10:54This whole issue of whether it's droplet spread or airborne.
10:58This is a strain of a virus that I know people know about.
11:02You know, there was an outbreak before they were able they contained it.
11:05They shut down an area in Argentina.
11:06They contained it.
11:07So what makes you, in what you're seeing, have this concern about airborne, which obviously is something that can affect
11:17where this goes from here significantly?
11:21Yeah, Erin, I think there were early and obvious signs, even before we did the sequencing to determine what strain
11:27this is.
11:27Remember, there's the Hantavirus normally spread through rodent droppings, but there is a strain, the Andy strain, that is spread
11:32human to human.
11:32And there was evidence that was happening early on before we even knew it was the Andy strain, because one
11:37person infected someone many weeks later.
11:39The ship doctor is sick.
11:41Prior investigations have shown pretty efficient spread without any direct contact.
11:47So we knew this was spread not just through, no, definitely through human to human, but also through the air.
11:53And that means we have to take these additional precautions.
11:55Once again, just like our many discussions during COVID, I hear a lot of great precautions being taken, great investigations
12:01being done, but very little about what is happening with these ship's systems in terms of the ventilation, filtration, keeping
12:08people safe.
12:09And that hasn't fully been communicated.
12:12The acting CDC director put out a message today that says, this is not spread.
12:17It's only spread through direct contact.
12:19But the New England Journal of Medicine article about that prior outbreak is very clear that there are many instances
12:24where there is spread with no direct contact at all.
12:28Right, which is obviously crucial.
12:30Now, you heard Dr. Kornfeld talking about how long everyone's been on board and what a quarantine might really mean
12:35in context of the long incubation period.
12:37And we have a question from one of our viewers, they ask, it said that it can take eight weeks
12:43to become symptomatic.
12:44The passengers shouldn't be allowed into the public until they're completely cleared.
12:49You know, what do you, is that a fair way to look at this?
12:53I mean, how long do you think people should be quarantined who are either on that ship or in contact
12:59with someone who was there?
13:02Yeah, I mean, this is the big challenge with this virus, the long incubation period.
13:06And now we have people scattered really around the globe that are being properly tracked, isolated, quarantined.
13:12And again, we can look at the past literature.
13:14That study was very in-depth about the prior outbreak.
13:16And they did get it under control.
13:19But what they did was they quarantined and isolated people for 40 days because of the long incubation period.
13:24So unfortunately, this is a key factor in us trying to figure out how do we keep people safe?
13:30How do we prevent further spread?
13:31I mean, what we're all tracking right now is that potential secondary spread.
13:35And then how do we minimize those who are infected from infecting others?
13:39All right, Joseph Allen, thank you very much.
13:41And if any of you have any questions about Hantavirus, obviously, we just shared one with the professor.
13:46Send them to us.
13:46You can email us at outfront at CNN.com.
13:48And you can also record your questions on video or audio.
13:51Send them to us and we'll ask the experts.
13:54And next, breaking news, America's striking Iran.
13:58The United States just launching new strikes inside Iran.
14:01These are the first strikes since the ceasefire took effect a month ago.
14:06Obviously, a very significant development.
14:08And the U.S. says they did it because Iran fired drones and missiles at three Navy warships traveling through
14:14the Strait of Hormuz.
14:16CENTCOM says that in response, the U.S., quote, targeted Iranian military facilities responsible for attacking U.S. forces,
14:23including missile and drone launch sites, command and control locations, and intelligence surveillance and reconnaissance nodes.
14:30I read all of that because I just want to make the point.
14:33There's a lot of plurals there, and that's a long list.
14:35The U.S. officials saying multiple locations were hit.
14:38They're talking about those you could see several islands there off the Strait of Hormuz and in the Strait.
14:45And Iran's military is also reporting damage to some of these locations.
14:49Now, the back and forth happening, even as U.S. officials say, sure, first strikes in Iran since the ceasefire
14:56and this whole long laundry list of places that we hit, but the ceasefire is still on.
15:00And then President Trump went on ABC mocking the whole thing, saying that this was a, quote, love tap.
15:05And that the ceasefire is still in effect.
15:07Retired Air Force Colonel Cedric Layton is out front, along with Nazeel Afafi,
15:10former New York Times correspondent based in Tehran for 10 years.
15:14Thanks so much to both of you.
15:16Colonel Layton, okay, these are the first strikes in Iran since the ceasefire 40 days ago.
15:22And that was a long list, right?
15:24They're saying that it targeted multiple types of facilities and they had a plural on everything.
15:30So it seems like it was quite a few strikes, which are acknowledged by both sides.
15:34Yeah, that's absolutely right, Erin.
15:35And one of the things to note is that Bandar Abbas was one of the areas that they hit.
15:39Bandar Abbas is the headquarters of the Iranian Revolutionary Guard Corps Navy.
15:43And so this is a major note.
15:46But that's been obliterated, Colonel.
15:47Well, yeah, so they told us, right, Erin?
15:49Many times it's been obliterated.
15:50And that's the thing.
15:51You know, when you talk about obliteration, you've got to be really careful with the terminology
15:55because it's very hard, and I say this as an Air Force guy,
15:59it's very hard to eliminate these kinds of targets totally.
16:01And the Iranians have practiced this for years.
16:04They've developed a doctrine, which basically is a doctrine of survivability.
16:07What they've done is they've taken a lot of their sites and made them into not necessarily impregnable areas,
16:14but what they've done is they've established redundancies.
16:17And so what you're seeing is a lot of the stuff that's coming back is really the stuff that they're
16:22holding in reserve,
16:23and they're using it to make those attacks on those three destroyers,
16:28and they're doing it in a way that's actually pretty effective for a country that has really been hit quite
16:33hard by the U.S.
16:34Yes, which they have, even if claims of obliteration obviously don't add up.
16:37The damage has been incredibly severe.
16:40Nazeela, but when Trump calls this a love tap, mocking it essentially, the strikes that the U.S. did,
16:46he then went ahead and posted on social media a threat saying, quote,
16:50we'll knock them out a lot harder and a lot more violently in the future if they don't get their
16:54deal signed fast.
16:57I'm just curious, Nazeela, at this point, when, you know, you say love tap, you do this,
17:02you say wipe them off the map, civilization gone.
17:04Then yesterday, you say there's no end point for some kind of a negotiated settlement.
17:10At this point, Nazeela, how does the Iranian regime view Trump's threats?
17:15Erin, I think Iranians see very clearly, and they say it, that President Trump is still prioritizing coercion.
17:24And they keep on saying that it doesn't work.
17:28They keep showing in their actions that coercion doesn't work.
17:33And, you know, this has become a very dangerous game plan in the Persian Gulf.
17:39I mean, it shows how fragile the ceasefire is.
17:43Iran immediately put out two statements, not one, Iran's IRGC naval force and Khatam al-Ambiyah,
17:51the operational branch of IRGC.
17:54They both put out statements saying that Iran retaliated because it was first an Iranian oil vessel
18:03that came under attack.
18:04So I think both sides are trying to downplay what happened.
18:10But the truth of the matter is that there were a lot of strikes.
18:16And, you know, this is a very dangerous situation.
18:19It all started to escalate this week after Freedom Project was put into effect.
18:26And, Colonel Leighton, you know, The Washington Post has this new reporting.
18:29There's a lot in there, but they got a confidential CIA analysis.
18:32And it showed several important things.
18:37One, underlying Seth Jones and CSIS reporting, but just how much capability,
18:41even after all these massive strikes that Iran still retains in terms of missiles and capability.
18:46And also that Iran could survive the U.S. naval blockade for three to four months
18:51before experiencing significant economic pain.
18:53Now, they don't express exactly how that's defined.
18:56I mean, Iran's already experiencing economic pain.
18:58But they think that that's survivable.
18:59Three to four months.
19:00Now, that would seem that that might be a lot.
19:02If they're right, that's a CIA analysis,
19:04that Iran has a lot longer runway on this than the West.
19:10Yeah, I think that's the case.
19:12I think the CIA report is spot on, actually.
19:14And the reason I say that is because the Iranians have, you know, done some homework on this.
19:20They have expected attacks like this for a very long time,
19:23basically for decades.
19:24And they know that there are sad to do in order to make the regime more survivable.
19:29They are used to, as Nazila, I'm sure, will tell you,
19:32they are used to a lot of hardship.
19:34And they can also have a bunch of redundancies.
19:38And we have to remember, you know, they border through the Caspian Sea, Russia.
19:43And they have a lifeline that way as well.
19:45So it's not that they're just cut off through the Persian Gulf.
19:48Nazila, something happened today that hasn't happened before.
19:52And that is that somebody in Iranian leadership said that they met with the Supreme Leader.
19:57Right?
19:57We've heard the statements.
19:58No one has said that before.
20:00President Pazeshkin said he met for two and a half hours recently with the Supreme Leader.
20:06Now, what do you make of the fact that he is saying this now?
20:09As I said, this is the first time any top Iranian official since the war began has said that they
20:15met with the Supreme Leader.
20:17Erin, I think they're preparing the public maybe for his appearance.
20:21But basically, the other message is that he's alive.
20:24And he's not in a critical condition, even if he was.
20:27I think that's the major message that they are trying to give.
20:30Because a lot of people inside the country believe he's dead.
20:35Wow.
20:36And I guess that's just the point of saying, I saw him.
20:38You're putting your own credibility on the line.
20:40All right.
20:41Thank you both very much.
20:42I appreciate it.
20:43And next, an out front exclusive.
20:45Inmates who served time with Jeffrey Epstein's former accomplice are telling CNN they face retaliation
20:49for calling out Ghislaine Maxwell and the special perks she's received.
20:56Breaking news.
20:57The Tennessee governor tonight signing a bill that could eliminate the only Democratic House seat in the state.
21:02And what happened?
21:04Mass chaos erupted.
21:05This is the scene inside the state capitol.
21:07Republican lawmakers voted to do it.
21:09They were going to carve up the only Democratic district to now favor the GOP.
21:15Trooper, please clear out that balcony over there.
21:18Please clear out the balcony.
21:25Leader Lamberth.
21:28Mr. Clark.
21:29Thank you for the speaker.
21:30I yield the remainder of my time.
21:32Leader Lamberth yields the rest of his time.
21:34We're voting.
21:36We're voting on the bill.
21:40You can hear the cacophony there, the chaos, and see the state Democratic lawmakers.
21:45They were linking arms to protest the move.
21:47As protesters there, you heard the chant.
21:49What they were saying was, no Jim Crow.
21:51The district is not just home to the only Democratic Congress seat in the state.
21:56Steve Cohen has that seat.
21:58He's going to join me in just a moment.
22:00It also is a majority black district.
22:02And that led to this fiery rebuke of the move.
22:06Tonight, breaking news, the race to track a deadly virus outbreak after learning passengers got off the ship weeks ago.
22:12That virus spread on a cruise ship in the Atlantic, and tonight we learned health officials are now tracking 30
22:17people who got off the boat weeks ago, including civil Americans who returned here to the U.S.
22:24Congresswoman, you agree with what she said there, that anyone who voted for this, you just better as well admit
22:30it, you're a racist?
22:33Well, there are followers of people who don't care about racist actions or else's effects on their actions.
22:40This is done to promote Donald Trump and to save him from having a Democratic majority in the next House
22:48and to have his corruption exposed for vigorous oversight.
22:54And that's what will happen, and they want to get every seat they can.
22:59This seat is an African-American majority seat.
23:02It's elected me, and it shows the African-American population votes on issues, and they choose the candidate of their
23:09choice.
23:09It's a beautiful example of how America can work, racist working together, and having a good Democratic process.
23:16And they totally tore it asunder.
23:19This was the work of Dr. King, of John Lewis, and they tore that apart.
23:24Who would have thought that could have happened, one of the great bills passed in the last half of the
23:2720th century, the Voting Rights Act, to make up for slavery, to make up for Jim Crow,
23:32to make up for all of the awful things that have happened to African-Americans in this country, to give
23:36them an opportunity, when possible, to have a district created where they can elect a congressman of their choosing.
23:41Instead, they go back to the equivalent of how many beans are in this jar, how many bubbles are on
23:49the bar of soap, paying a literacy tax, claiming they're race neutral.
23:53This was not race neutral.
23:56So, you know, obviously you're talking about this is a part of a broader game where everybody's trying to redistrict,
24:02and they're trying to get these seats, and Trump wants to retain the House.
24:05I know that you have vowed, Congressman, to sue the state.
24:09Do you have confidence that that will prevail?
24:12I mean, obviously you would do it even if you didn't think it would prevail.
24:15You'd do it for a statement.
24:16But do you actually think you have a chance?
24:20I think we have a chance.
24:21In 2022, the Supreme Court, which is similar, not totally the same, but similar,
24:29ruled that a similar case that tried to change the Constitution was too late because of the Purcell rule,
24:37which is a federal standard that says you can't do things too close to election time.
24:41That was even further away than this case is.
24:44Our filing deadline was in March.
24:46That was in April.
24:47So it's a month different.
24:49And people have been filed for office March 10, did not withdraw March 17, have been campaigning and spending campaign
24:55money and planning campaigns,
24:56and people are picking sides and endorsing and not endorsing.
24:59I mean, that's the process.
25:01It started.
25:01And to stop it here will confuse people in the district, and the courts have ruled against such actions.
25:06And they may do it again and put it off until 2028.
25:09And I think there's a relatively good chance that will occur.
25:12After 2028, there might be other arguments.
25:15I mean, they said this wasn't race, but they divided a majority black district in Memphis,
25:20which happened not because the Voting Rights Act, but simply because the population was such.
25:24And to have a compact district with people of community interest made for a majority black district.
25:30This district, when they broke it up, one of the districts has 29% black.
25:35Another has 29% black.
25:36The other has 31% black.
25:38The odds of that happening randomly, not very good.
25:42That shows a bit of racism.
25:45All right.
25:46I appreciate your time, Congressman.
25:48Thank you very much.
25:49Congressman Cohen, as you said, has been serving for 20 years in that seat.
25:53And obviously, this redistricting makes it essentially almost a certainty that he will lose that seat.
25:59John Avalon and Margaret Hoover are here with me.
26:02So how significant is this just to happen?
26:05Huge.
26:06It's a direct downstream effect of the Supreme Court and the Louisiana decision,
26:11which the Supreme Court's basically said that trying to ensure racial representation is not going to be allowed,
26:16but partisan power grabs will be allowed.
26:19And, of course, particularly in the Deep South, it's the same thing.
26:22I mean, you've got over 1.1 million black citizens in Tennessee.
26:27You've got, you know, more independents of Democrats than Republicans.
26:32And now they're following through on their jamming through the elimination,
26:37the stated elimination of the old Democratic district.
26:39This is incredibly dangerous for our democracy.
26:41You know, Margaret, it's also that if you're watching this from home,
26:44you know Gavin Newsom did it in California and you know Abbott did it in Texas
26:47and maybe, you know, Virginia and North Carolina, I mean, it's been happening.
26:50But then something like this pops up and I'm thinking,
26:53how many more of these could pop out sort of out of nowhere
26:56that actually really determined for almost certain a seat?
27:01Not that many more because legislative sessions in states are almost over.
27:05I mean, most of them wrap up now or in June is the latest that they go.
27:10So, and it's like a couple of states.
27:12So I, this is one of the last to pop up.
27:15I don't anticipate many more.
27:17Like a flood or something like that.
27:18No, it's not going to be like every other state is going to do this now.
27:20The arms race is essentially dying down.
27:22Look, what I would say is the consequences of the Supreme Court's ruling on Section 2
27:30of the Voting Rights Act is going to be continued to be felt.
27:34Gotcha.
27:35There are other remedies besides the Supreme Court
27:38interpreting the Voting Rights Act as they have.
27:40For example, Congress could pass a law that is very clear
27:44about what voting rights should mean in the states at the federal level
27:50so that there is no question how the justices should interpret the law.
27:54And what the court has been trying to do in many cases over many years,
27:59and this is where a perfectly nice evening with my husband at CNN
28:02and then dinner goes crazy,
28:04the court has been begging Congress to legislate
28:07and actually do the writing of the laws
28:10so that we are not living our lives
28:12based on whichever compositions of the court's interpretation last stands.
28:16But my Republican bride ignores the fact
28:19that she's on the right side of this personally,
28:21but the Republican's the one who will block that kind of thing.
28:23The only way to de-escalate this arms race,
28:26this partisan arms race we're going to see in red states and blue states,
28:29but the reason this matters is the states of the former Confederacy,
28:32is for Congress to do its job and pass a federal law.
28:35That's the only way to de-escalate this,
28:36and that's what's going to need to be done.
28:38I know.
28:38The problem is the Republicans are the ones who have been blocking that.
28:42But November is coming.
28:43Yes, and that'll be a step in the right direction, hopefully.
28:46We'll see.
28:48Obviously, this Congress isn't going to pass that.
28:50I mean, that's a seat that just went.
28:51I mean, you know, it's like you've got to see how it goes.
28:52But if you add up the House and you look at the...
28:54I mean, I don't know.
28:55You can read the tea leaves,
28:56but I think, you know,
28:57it looks like November is going a certain direction
28:59no matter how many ones or twos here and there
29:02that Trump can cobble together.
29:04So, John, you just wrote a piece in Rolling Stone,
29:07and you warned about something that you...
29:09And I have actually talked about on this show for,
29:11shall I say, 15 years.
29:14I'm going to play it in a second.
29:16But basically, this is if America's debt passed 100% of GDP.
29:20Now, in other countries, say Argentina or others,
29:23that has been sort of the line that was a harbinger of a crisis,
29:28a complete crisis, okay?
29:29So, now, let me just play the fact
29:33that you've been consistent on this issue.
29:35Republicans have not been, but here you are.
29:37All right.
29:39Everyone's been warned.
29:40This is not subtle.
29:42Everyone should be clear in their mind
29:43about the importance of dealing with our deficit and our debt
29:45if you want our country on a long-term sound fiscal footing,
29:48and everybody should.
29:51I'm torn at looking at things like that.
29:54I don't know that I like it, okay?
29:57It is what it is.
29:59You know what?
30:00We're all still together.
30:01That's right.
30:01That is something to celebrate.
30:03That's a win.
30:03Okay, but, you know, you've been consistent.
30:05Yeah.
30:06But back to the...
30:06You're talking here about Republicans and Democrats
30:08on gerrymandering, on this issue.
30:11I remember when Tom Coburn wrote a book about this, okay?
30:14This was the Republican issue, the debt.
30:16Yeah.
30:17And now it's just crickets.
30:19It's crickets.
30:21But it's a slow-moving crisis.
30:23I mean, it's not that we're in Argentina,
30:24but historically, when debt outpaces GDP,
30:28that is very dangerous to destabilizing
30:30for Republicans and umpires alike.
30:32And the fact is, it will almost...
30:33That milestone almost passed unnoticed.
30:35Yeah, right.
30:36And it can't.
30:36And you saw...
30:37We were talking about this 15 years ago,
30:38because 15 years ago, it was clear this was happening.
30:41We talk about slow-moving, right?
30:42That's...
30:42Back then, it was clear.
30:43And even worse, 25 years ago,
30:45we had climbed our way out of that hole,
30:47at least with regard to the deficit.
30:48By the way...
30:49Bill Clinton had a 0% deficit.
30:50With the Republican House of Representatives
30:51and Speaker.
30:52So it was...
30:53I mean, it actually was a genuinely bipartisan effort
30:55to get it done.
30:56I mean, Bill Clinton would have done it on his own
30:58had Newt Gingrich not held his feet to the fire.
31:00And they did get it done together.
31:01It has to be done together.
31:02We're way too polarized and partisan to do it now.
31:04But you're right.
31:04George W. Bush squandered it
31:05by getting tax cuts before 9-11
31:07because that was the focus.
31:08And that's how we got here.
31:09I have to wrap, but I take issue with that.
31:12Okay, fine.
31:13Well, I believe that they're...
31:15I mean, it's not like the fiscal
31:16of the bailout of 2008.
31:17Our conversation will take a pause.
31:18The global financial crisis.
31:19But your conversation will continue.
31:20We'll continue.
31:20As you are Heuvelan.
31:22And they are married.
31:23And so they will continue.
31:24All right, thanks.
31:25And next, inmate serving time with Epstein,
31:27co-conspirator Ghislaine Maxwell,
31:28speaking out about her
31:29and the special treatment they say she is getting.
31:31Now they say they're being punished.
31:33Plus, Secretary of State Marco Rubio
31:35is presenting the Pope
31:36with the strange gift
31:39of a glass football deal toy looking thing.
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