- 4 weeks ago
Earlier today, Justice Neil Gorsuch stepped away from the complex legal dockets of the Supreme Court to lead a gripping journey through the heart of American history. In a session that felt less like a lecture and more like a call to arms for the American spirit, Gorsuch explored the "human side" of the Revolution—reminding us that our nation was built not by icons, but by rebels.
Beyond the Bronze Statues
Too often, we view the Founding Fathers as untouchable figures in powdered wigs, frozen in oil paintings. Justice Gorsuch’s talk today shattered that image, painting a portrait of the Revolution as a gritty, high-stakes gamble taken by ordinary people with extraordinary conviction.
"We tend to think of the Founders as statues," Gorsuch remarked. "But we must remember they were flesh-and-blood radicals. They didn't just debate philosophy; they signed their own death warrants for the radical idea that 'We the People' should be the masters of our own destiny."
The Unsung Heroes of the High Seas and Backwoods
While names like Washington and Adams took their usual place, Gorsuch turned the spotlight toward the unsung heroes who formed the backbone of the movement:
The Radical Printers: Who risked the gallows to circulate the "dangerous" ideas of liberty.
The Frontier Farmers: Who traded their livelihoods for muskets, believing that a fair law was worth more than a comfortable life.
The Silent Strategists: The women and local leaders who kept the flickering flame of the Revolution alive when the cause seemed lost.
"The Law is King"
A key theme of Gorsuch’s exploration was the Rule of Law. He noted that the American Revolution was unique because it wasn't a push for anarchy; it was a push for a system where no person is above the law.
"The heroes of 1776 weren't looking for chaos," Gorsuch explained. "They were looking for a King called 'Law.' They wanted a world where the rules are known, the rights are natural, and the power is limited."
A Message for the Modern Age
Justice Gorsuch, known for his commitment to the original meaning of the Constitution, used these historical stories to deliver a powerful contemporary message: Freedom is not a "spectator sport."
He argued that the courage shown by the revolutionaries is a "torch" that must be carried by every generation. Without an active, informed, and courageous citizenry, the institutions built by the heroes of the Revolution could become as hollow as the monarchy they overthrew.
The Final Challenge
The event concluded with a standing ovation as Gorsuch left the audience with a haunting, yet hopeful, challenge. He reminded those in attendance that the "Spirit of '76" isn't a relic of the past—it’s a living responsibility.
"The Revolutionaries gave us a Republic," he concluded, echoing the words of Benjamin Franklin. "The only question that remains is: Do we still have the grit to keep it?"
Beyond the Bronze Statues
Too often, we view the Founding Fathers as untouchable figures in powdered wigs, frozen in oil paintings. Justice Gorsuch’s talk today shattered that image, painting a portrait of the Revolution as a gritty, high-stakes gamble taken by ordinary people with extraordinary conviction.
"We tend to think of the Founders as statues," Gorsuch remarked. "But we must remember they were flesh-and-blood radicals. They didn't just debate philosophy; they signed their own death warrants for the radical idea that 'We the People' should be the masters of our own destiny."
The Unsung Heroes of the High Seas and Backwoods
While names like Washington and Adams took their usual place, Gorsuch turned the spotlight toward the unsung heroes who formed the backbone of the movement:
The Radical Printers: Who risked the gallows to circulate the "dangerous" ideas of liberty.
The Frontier Farmers: Who traded their livelihoods for muskets, believing that a fair law was worth more than a comfortable life.
The Silent Strategists: The women and local leaders who kept the flickering flame of the Revolution alive when the cause seemed lost.
"The Law is King"
A key theme of Gorsuch’s exploration was the Rule of Law. He noted that the American Revolution was unique because it wasn't a push for anarchy; it was a push for a system where no person is above the law.
"The heroes of 1776 weren't looking for chaos," Gorsuch explained. "They were looking for a King called 'Law.' They wanted a world where the rules are known, the rights are natural, and the power is limited."
A Message for the Modern Age
Justice Gorsuch, known for his commitment to the original meaning of the Constitution, used these historical stories to deliver a powerful contemporary message: Freedom is not a "spectator sport."
He argued that the courage shown by the revolutionaries is a "torch" that must be carried by every generation. Without an active, informed, and courageous citizenry, the institutions built by the heroes of the Revolution could become as hollow as the monarchy they overthrew.
The Final Challenge
The event concluded with a standing ovation as Gorsuch left the audience with a haunting, yet hopeful, challenge. He reminded those in attendance that the "Spirit of '76" isn't a relic of the past—it’s a living responsibility.
"The Revolutionaries gave us a Republic," he concluded, echoing the words of Benjamin Franklin. "The only question that remains is: Do we still have the grit to keep it?"
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NewsTranscript
00:00And they turned to a local pamphleteer printer, M.K. Goddard.
00:05And M.K. Goddard was known for printing Patriot newspapers
00:09and always put at the bottom printed by M.K. Goddard.
00:12When it came to printing the Declaration, though,
00:15M.K. Goddard used her full name,
00:19printed by Mary Catherine Goddard,
00:21because she wanted everybody to know that she, too, stood on the Patriot side.
00:26That was an act of treason that she engaged in.
00:28And so we wanted to share superhuman stories that kids might relate to.
00:36And I hope there's somebody in this book that any kid,
00:40some kid will find this person or that person an inspiration,
00:44because those three ideas, they're not self-perpetuating,
00:48and there's no guarantee of anything.
00:50It takes a creedal nation to pass the ideas down,
00:53to relearn each generation anew,
00:55and to believe in and to work toward, right?
00:59Those are perfect ideas.
01:01We're not perfect, but the ideas are,
01:03and the torch is going to be in their hands soon enough.
01:06Your turn, Janie.
01:09I think that sometimes survey after survey today
01:13shows that Americans seem to be maybe a little bit cynical,
01:16think that others act only in their self-interest or financial gain.
01:20And what I love about the revolutionary generation and telling their stories
01:23is they stand at a total counterpoint to that.
01:28Why they did what they did,
01:29it was for values that were deeper than pure self-interest.
01:34So, one soldier in the Continental Army, he wrote home and he said,
01:38I know not what dangers we will encounter,
01:41but let it not be said to my children that their father was a coward.
01:45Nathan Hale, we tell his story in the book,
01:47he was 20 years old when he volunteered to join the Continental Army,
01:50and he wrote a letter home to his dad,
01:53and he said,
01:53A sense of duty urged me to sacrifice all that I had for my country.
01:58He was caught a year later, hanged as a spy.
02:02And, of course, his famous last words on the gallows,
02:04he cries out,
02:05I regret only that I have but one life to lose for my country.
02:08And for the founding generation,
02:10these private virtues and personal virtues of courage
02:13and willingness to sacrifice for greater cause
02:16and virtues of sense of duty and honor,
02:19they really viewed them as central to the patriot cause
02:22and really to the survival of a free republic.
02:24And there are just so many great stories of the founders looking inward
02:28and seeking to better their own self.
02:30But one that I love is George Washington.
02:33As a young boy, he copied out sort of 110 rules of good behavior and civility, it was.
02:40And he became just a master of self-control
02:42as the commander of the army and later as the president.
02:46And some say that his greatest gift to the country
02:49was not just leading the successful Continental Army,
02:53but the fact that he relinquished power.
02:55It was for the first time in human history,
02:57almost the leader of a successful revolution,
03:00relinquished his power, not once but twice.
03:02He gave up his military commission at the end of the war
03:04and then he declined to run for a third term of presidency.
03:08And the only last thing I would say
03:10is that the founders thought virtue so important
03:12that they wrote it into the Declaration of Independence.
03:14So we have rights to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.
03:19And we sometimes forget today that the pursuit of happiness for the founders
03:23was not the pursuit of feeling good, but the pursuit of being good.
03:27So quite literally, our country was founded with a conception
03:30that we would have a society whereby people could seek to live a virtuous life.
03:35And so we just thought it important to teach about those virtues
03:38and give kids some models of them.
03:41When you were researching and writing the book,
03:44were there any facts or stories that surprised you?
03:47Oh gosh, I hate to admit it.
03:50I learned a lot.
03:54Some of it made it into the book, some of it didn't.
03:57Here's one that didn't make it into the book.
03:59Richard Lloyd-Jones was 10 years old when he joined up as a fighter.
04:04And he followed the army around, enduring all the hardships they did.
04:08These men often went without shoes.
04:11Washington commented to the men marching into Valley Forge,
04:14you could trace their footsteps by the blood in the snow.
04:19He spent three years doing that.
04:21When he was discharged at the age of 13,
04:22he walked 150 miles home alone.
04:27That's a superhero, right?
04:30Here's one that's in the book that I didn't know the exact exchange.
04:36So Adams and Jefferson are debating who's going to write the Declaration.
04:42And you might think they'd be elbowing each other.
04:45I mean, they later became pretty heated political rivals.
04:48They didn't speak for years, in fact.
04:50We think we have disagreeable times.
04:55No, far from it.
04:57They wanted each other to write.
04:59And they went back and forth until finally, exasperated,
05:02Jefferson said, Adams, why me?
05:05And Adams said, three reasons, sir.
05:08First, you're a Virginian.
05:11And a Virginian should be seen to be the head of this business.
05:14Important, right?
05:15Remember, Massachusetts was all the rabble-rousers.
05:18They were the troublesome types, okay?
05:20They had started the whole dang thing.
05:23They needed to drag the Virginians along with them.
05:26Virginia was the most populous and the richest colony at the time.
05:29Hmm, smart.
05:31Reason second, I'm obnoxious.
05:37And unpopular.
05:39Probably true.
05:42And reason third, you write ten times better than I do.
05:46Oh, humility, right?
05:48And so Jefferson said, okay, I'll do it.
05:51And he locked himself in rented rooms from a bricklayer on the outskirts of Philadelphia for two weeks,
05:58said he didn't consult a book or pamphlet, and there he wrote the declaration.
06:03And what I thought was so interesting about this story, right,
06:05there's some strategic sense, we need Virginia, there's some humility, I'm obnoxious and unpopular, right?
06:16And recognition of the value of another person with whom you sometimes disagree.
06:24You're a better writer than I am, right?
06:26Those are the kinds of virtues that you just see in a little story like that, that I found fun.
06:33I think the thing, I love that story, and I too learned so much in researching this book.
06:39I think the thing that surprised me was some, you know, when I, before researching this book,
06:43thought back to the signers of the Declaration.
06:45You think of John Adams and Thomas Jefferson, you think back to the founding,
06:48you also think of George Washington, he of course wasn't a signer.
06:51And you think, well, they didn't end up so bad.
06:53They didn't end up the first, second, and third president of the United States.
06:57And then you start to turn the pages of the history of the signers,
07:00and you realize, you know, Richard Stockton, he was dragged from his bed in the middle of the night, he
07:04died.
07:05You know, Thomas Nelson Jr., once wealthy man, he led his state's militia
07:10in the final major battle of the war, Battle of Yorktown, he died a poor man, right?
07:15John Hart, he was on the run for much of the winter hiding in caves,
07:18and, you know, once, he wrote later that he sort of shared the bed of a dog
07:22hiding from the British who were chasing him,
07:24and you realize, in the end, sort of a third of the signers of the Declaration,
07:28at the end of the war, lost their homes, or their homes were destroyed.
07:32And nearly all of them were left poor for their dedication to the cause of freedom.
07:36So I think that was a surprising thing for me,
07:38the general suffering and the sacrifice, the great sacrifice,
07:43that, you know, really most all of the signers went through.
07:47In your last book, Overruled, you talked about the decline of civic education
07:52and knowledge in our country.
07:55And now you've written a children's book.
07:59What can parents do to help sort of combat that decline in civic education and understanding?
08:05You're quite right.
08:06In part, this book was an outgrowth of that book, right?
08:09I mean, in the statistics, you know them, and actually, thank you.
08:12At the Nixon Library, you're doing a lot about it with your new civic education center.
08:16But it is utterly depressing.
08:18You know, 13% of 8th graders are proficient at grade level in American history.
08:25Only 18% of liberal arts colleges mandate even one course in U.S. history.
08:32And 6 in 10 adults apparently can't pass the citizenship test my wife took.
08:37And I helped her coach her way on it.
08:40And I can tell you, it ain't hard.
08:44So we got a real problem if the torch is going to pass.
08:47And so, yes, this was part of an effort.
08:50Oh, and by the way, Janie said, oh, man, you've been complaining about it a long time.
08:53Why don't you do something about it?
08:56So there's that, too.
08:57I forgot the question.
09:02How can parents use this as a tool and combat that trend more generally?
09:07Yeah.
09:07So people often say, you know, what are your solutions?
09:10Well, guess what?
09:11I'm a judge.
09:13All right?
09:14And I got a day job.
09:17So I don't have a wand, right?
09:20And all I can do is share with you what I see and what I hear and what I think.
09:26But it's really up to you.
09:28I mean, it's we the people, after all.
09:30It's not we the judges, right?
09:33It's not we the elite.
09:34It's we the people.
09:36So saying, hey, Gorsuch, what are all the solutions?
09:38You know what the solutions are.
09:40And you have the power within you to make those changes.
09:45If Richard Lloyd-Jones can walk 150 miles home by himself at age 13 for crying out loud,
09:51you can go to your schools and your teachers and your libraries and make things happen.
10:04Oh, by the way, this one really does it.
10:08In addition to being the daughter of a couple who escaped communism during the Prague Spring,
10:16top of her class at Harvard in physics, statistics, and law, practicing law, president, you heard all that.
10:25She also founded a preschool for children because she was fed up with the education her kids are getting.
10:38So before we pivot to the next part of the program, this was a question I couldn't wait to ask.
10:44You estimate that 15 to 20 percent of the American colonists were loyal to British rule,
10:48while 40 percent backed independence.
10:50I'm no mathematician, but that leaves about 40 to 45 percent as neutral.
10:54How does a revolution happen when a possible plurality of the population is on the fence?
11:01Actually, I love those statistics because I think it shows that it's much easier in any age just to stand
11:09back, right?
11:10And not to voice an opinion and just let others take on the difficult task of fighting for something.
11:18And I think that was why we wrote this book, really, to show that it really took a couple people.
11:23Sam Adams at the start, this rabble rouser for, you know, at a time when no one thought that the
11:29colonists would declare it.
11:30No one thought so.
11:31And he was sort of the puppeteer in the background and really moving things forward carefully.
11:35And then, you know, early in 1776, again, the idea that the colonists would break from Britain,
11:42you know, essentially a declaration of war, powerful empire, won battles around the world, professional army, strongest navy in the
11:50world.
11:51At the time when they were debating independence, eventually in June and July,
11:55they were, by, you know, they got wind that there were reports of 30,000 mercenaries were sailing across the
12:02Atlantic.
12:03George Washington was up in New York with this kind of band of a continental army that had just been
12:08formed a year prior.
12:09He, by any European standards, had no business leading the army.
12:14You know, I think the greatest sort of group that he had led before was just, you know,
12:20incredibly small compared to sort of the great generals in Europe.
12:23And yet they did it anyway, despite all those odds.
12:27And the signs of the declaration, you know, when they gathered finally on August 2nd
12:32to actually put their names on the parchment paper because they didn't sign it on July 2nd,
12:38there was a real gloom that settled over the room because they really thought that they were signing their death
12:45warrants.
12:46They really thought that the end result for them personally would be death by hanging.
12:52But they created a nation for us.
12:55And I think it's just a really great reminder that the freedoms that we have came at immense costs
13:00and they're fragile and they require each new generation to preserve for future generations.
13:12So we are now in for a treat as we will have Justice Gorsuch and Janie do a little bit
13:17of reading of the book.
13:19I'm going to turn it over to Justice Gorsuch.
13:22I've got the clicker.
13:24I hope I don't screw it up.
13:26Janie's going to start.
13:32So we'll just read an excerpt of a handful of pages from the book.
13:36This is the first page.
13:38In the spring of 1776, Philadelphia buzzed with the sounds of revolution.
13:44Men and women stopped each other in the streets to trade rumors of the latest troop movements.
13:49Others whispered reports about spies among them.
13:51Noisy debate spilled from open tavern windows while distant drums called soldiers to their training.
13:59What sparked this talk of revolution?
14:02Patriots were fed up with British rule.
14:05They bitterly opposed laws that forced colonists to house British troops,
14:09opened their homes to searches by British agents,
14:11and endured trials before royal judges rather than local juries.
14:16Perhaps most of all, patriots opposed taxes imposed on them by far-off rulers
14:20rather than their own elected leaders.
14:23They wanted instead a new nation where the people would rule themselves
14:26and laws would protect the rights of individuals to live, speak, and worship freely.
14:31But even now, not everyone agreed.
14:34Yes, British troops and American colonists had already exchanged shots in battle,
14:38but many loyalists wanted to avoid more conflict
14:40and hoped the colonies could patch up their differences with Great Britain.
14:44And we talked about, in fact, only, as Matt mentioned,
14:47only 40% of colonists were patriots, another 20% were loyalists.
14:51Others were neutral.
14:52And for the kids in the audience, which side might you have chosen at the time?
14:57Before you answer, think about this.
15:00There was good reason to fear the king.
15:03Britain had the world's most powerful navy,
15:05more than 200 warships,
15:07and a large army that had won many battles around the globe.
15:09Its soldiers were well-trained and well-supplied with muskets,
15:13ammunition, and backpacks filled with blankets and clothes.
15:17Making fun of the red coats British troops wore,
15:20some colonists called the soldiers lobsters.
15:23But in truth, those well-stitched uniforms only showed
15:26how ragged the colony's forces were by comparison.
15:30The Continental Army and local militias,
15:32groups of ordinary citizens ready to defend their hometowns and colonies,
15:36included farmers and laborers.
15:37Many had never set foot on a battlefield
15:40and lacked basic supplies like food, uniforms, even shoes.
15:44As John Adams wrote,
15:46our army is not as strong as we could wish,
15:49the militia not so ready as they ought to be.
15:52And of course we go on to describe in the book
15:54that the colonists did in fact agree to the Declaration of Independence.
15:57We talk about the heated debates,
16:00Caesar Rodney's ride through the night to break a tie vote,
16:03and how the Sinaians believed they'd be hanged
16:05by the British for the Revolutionary Act.
16:07But now, let's turn to some pages where we discuss
16:10how many men, after signing the Declaration,
16:12were hunted by British troops seeking vengeance.
16:25John Hart of New Jersey was one of the marked men.
16:30After he returned home from Philadelphia,
16:33his wife Deborah fell gravely ill and died.
16:36As British forces closed in on his farm,
16:40Hart fled for the woods.
16:42In the dead cold of winter,
16:44Hart eluded British patrols.
16:46He hid in caves and cottages
16:48and never dared to sleep in the same place twice.
16:51Once, he spent a bitter night,
16:53curled up next to a dog.
16:56Despite a promise from the British
16:57that they would pardon any rebel
16:59who retracted his support for independence,
17:02Hart stood firm.
17:04He, too, never lived to see the end of the Revolution.
17:08A fellow Sinaians wrote of him,
17:10a plain, honest, well-meaning Jersey farmer
17:13with but little education,
17:15but with good sense and virtue enough
17:18to discover the true interests of his country.
17:21As the revolution wore on,
17:23one Sinaians after another suffered.
17:25The British captured at least five others
17:28over the course of the war.
17:30One lost his son.
17:32Abraham Clark of New Jersey
17:34had not just one son,
17:36but two captured by the British.
17:38One was brutally confined in a dungeon,
17:41left to starve except for scraps of food
17:44other prisoners stuffed
17:45through the keyhole of his cell.
17:48In the end,
17:49about a third of the Sinaians
17:50saw their homes damaged or destroyed.
17:53Nearly all were left poor
17:54for their dedication to the cause of freedom.
17:58The revolution dragged on for years,
18:00and often the patriots teetered
18:02on the edge of defeat.
18:03Washington lost one battle after another.
18:06For a time,
18:07there was even talk of replacing him
18:09as commander of the army.
18:12Despite support from so many colonists,
18:14patriot soldiers regularly lacked muskets,
18:17food, even clothing.
18:19I am now convinced,
18:20Washington wrote early in the war,
18:22that unless some great and capital change
18:24suddenly takes place,
18:25this army must inevitably be reduced
18:28to one or the other of these three things.
18:32Starve, dissolve, or disperse.
18:35Still, the patriots refused to give up.
18:38These are the times that try men's souls,
18:41wrote Thomas Paine.
18:42Tyranny like hell is not easily conquered.
18:46Eventually, too, the patriots won some key battles,
18:48and the fledgling nation convinced France
18:51to enter the war as an ally.
18:53With France's vast resources,
18:55many hoped the tide of the war would soon turn.
18:58Then, in 1781,
19:01Washington saw his chance.
19:03British General Charles Cornwallis
19:05had stationed his army at Yorktown,
19:07near the mouth of the York River,
19:09awaiting the arrival of British ships.
19:12But before they could reach him,
19:14Washington struck.
19:14His army attacked by land,
19:17while French warships blocked escape by sea.
19:20Trapped, Cornwallis surrendered on October 19th,
19:24marking the end of the last major battle of the war.
19:28Yorktown was the home of one of the signers, too,
19:30Thomas Nelson, Jr.,
19:32and he joined in the fight
19:33as commander of the Virginia militia.
19:36Legend has it that on learning
19:37that the British troops were stationed in his home,
19:40he didn't hesitate to order his men to fire upon it.
19:44Victory did nothing for Nelson's personal fortunes.
19:47He died in 1789 a poor man,
19:50his once great wealth spent on the Patriot cause.
19:54Before he died,
19:55Nelson was asked if he felt bitter about his fate.
19:58I would do it all over again, he said.
20:02Finally, in the last few pages of the book,
20:04we talk about how thousands of ordinary colonists,
20:07men, women, and children,
20:08sacrificed so much.
20:10Here's one of the example pages.
20:12For the kids in the audience,
20:14I'd ask them to think about
20:15how they might have contributed to the Patriot cause.
20:19With parents focused on war responsibilities,
20:23children often took on many of their jobs,
20:25tending livestock, harvesting crops,
20:27or helping keep shops open and running.
20:29Other children served in the Continental Army
20:32and local militias as drummers and fifers.
20:35Some served as spies and messengers,
20:38hoping they might avoid suspicion thanks to their youth.
20:41One of them, 18-year-old Emily Geiger,
20:44volunteered to ride through enemy territory
20:46and deliver a message to a Patriot general.
20:49When the British captured her midway through her journey,
20:51she quickly memorized the message,
20:53swallowed the paper on which it was written.
20:56Then she fled and wrote on.
21:09That was terrific. Thank you.
21:11Just one word.
21:13The illustrations.
21:14I just have to say a word about it.
21:21We went through book after book, Cheney and I,
21:24trying to find the right illustrator.
21:26We didn't want any AI, computer-generate cartoons.
21:30We wanted to bring these people to life,
21:31somebody you might recognize as a person.
21:35And Chris Ellison is just magical.
21:38The detail he put into this.
21:40I said, we wanted Jefferson's laptop.
21:43No, that's not a computer.
21:46It was his personal desk that he took with him
21:49to Philadelphia and other places to write on.
21:51And Chris knew exactly what we were talking about,
21:54and there is Jefferson's laptop.
21:56He spent time researching exactly
21:58who was around Jefferson's deathbed
22:00on July 4th, 1826,
22:02and replicates that very, very precisely.
22:05So it's just as magical what he did.
22:09Anyway, I'm sorry.
22:16So now we're going to move to questions
22:18that came from you, the audience,
22:20and I have them here.
22:21I'm going to start.
22:22This is a great one.
22:23It's from Remington.
22:24I am 19 and thinking about pursuing law.
22:27Any advice?
22:32That one's for Janie, I think.
22:34Go for it.
22:36It's a great profession.
22:38First of all, I will just say that.
22:40So I think you're on the right track already.
22:43I would say a few pieces of advice.
22:46One, you're going to have to work hard.
22:48You're going to have to work really, really,
22:49really hard in law school.
22:50Don't be afraid of it.
22:53Two, you'll find that in some classes,
22:55you might have classmates,
22:56they don't necessarily agree with what you think.
22:58Maybe you have professors
22:59that don't necessarily agree with what you think.
23:01And as I hope our book shows,
23:02it's really important to voice your own opinions.
23:06And then I think you will be surprised
23:07if there'll be others in the classroom
23:09that also have the same opinions
23:10that may not have had the courage
23:12to voice them publicly.
23:15So I would encourage you to do that.
23:17And then third, find a good mentor.
23:23It can make just a world of difference in your life.
23:27I was just so incredibly lucky to find Justice Gorsuch.
23:31Back in 2008, no one knew who he was.
23:33He was sitting out in Denver, Colorado.
23:36And he had just come from the Department of Justice
23:38two years prior.
23:40And all my friends in law school
23:41were going off to feed our judges,
23:43judges who had already sent clerks to the Supreme Court.
23:45And I flew out to interview with Ben Judge Gorsuch.
23:49And he seemed really kind, extremely brilliant.
23:52And I also liked skiing.
23:55And...
23:55I think that had a lot to do with it.
23:59But it was honestly just the most,
24:02you know, God was smiling down at me that day
24:05because it was just the most fortunate thing ever.
24:07I actually met my husband out in Colorado.
24:08So really, the Justice has touched every part of my life.
24:12And so, you know, find a good mentor.
24:14Don't go for the ones that you think are the best.
24:17You know, go for the ones that you really feel will,
24:20you know, look out for your own career as well.
24:24Perfect advice.
24:30Truly.
24:31Next question.
24:32How long did it take to write the book?
24:34Oh, that's interesting.
24:36That's a good question.
24:37You know, it...
24:39Cheney's told me,
24:40Hey, boss, this one will be easy.
24:44It'll be so much easier than writing an adult book.
24:48And, you know,
24:48and hang it, put your money where your mouth is.
24:50You're complaining about civic education.
24:51We've got to do this.
24:52It'll be no problem.
24:54Ha!
24:55Famous last words, right?
24:58I mean, part of it is figuring out an arc of a story
25:00that can grab children,
25:03entertain them in form,
25:05but without being oppressively so about it, right?
25:09Working with the illustrator
25:11and figuring out which person to use,
25:14like Emily Geig,
25:15we could have used a dozen others.
25:17You know, which one do we want there?
25:19And how?
25:20That's all a lot of work.
25:22And then just the history of it, right?
25:24I mean, what were Nathan Hale's exact last words?
25:28There are several different versions,
25:31as it turns out.
25:34And little details like that,
25:37having to go back and actually see
25:39from the primary sources,
25:41and we did,
25:42and Janie really, really did,
25:45to make sure that we were using
25:46something that could be documented back
25:48as far as possible
25:50to get the story right.
25:52So it took a long time.
25:54A long time.
25:55I mean, the only thing I would add to that
25:57is really to emphasize,
25:59as with any heroes,
26:01where legends have grown up
26:02around some of these men,
26:03and it was really important to us
26:05that we got all the facts right.
26:08And so we really tried to source things
26:10back to letters the founders wrote
26:13to one another,
26:14memoirs that they wrote.
26:16We did sometimes rely on biographies,
26:18but usually of family descendants
26:20that, again, were written
26:21in sort of the 18 or 1900s,
26:24or sorry, 17 or 1800s.
26:26And that took a lot longer
26:28than the four weeks
26:29that I promised the justice.
26:34This is a great question.
26:35If you could have been
26:36one of the heroes in your book,
26:38who would you want to be?
26:39Wow, that is a good question.
26:42That's a great question.
26:45Go for it.
26:46That's a great question.
26:47I haven't thought about that.
26:52Maybe Sam Adams, actually.
26:55Maybe Sam Adams.
26:56Samuel Adams,
26:57he didn't care at all about wealth.
27:00He was extremely poor.
27:02Actually, there were some rumors
27:04going around of how does he actually survive,
27:06and then the rumors were
27:07that John Hancock is actually paying
27:09for his lodging
27:11and sort of some of his food.
27:12He was so poor
27:13that when he went to Philadelphia
27:16for his first trip,
27:17his friends the day before showed up,
27:19and they said,
27:20here are some new clothes,
27:21and here's a little bag of money for you
27:23so you don't sort of embarrass us
27:25when you're there,
27:25you know, representing our colony.
27:29But he really had the vision.
27:31I think he's almost an unsung hero.
27:32I mean, many people know his name,
27:33of course,
27:34but he really had the vision
27:35long before 1775,
27:37and he was the one,
27:38the sort of puppeteer behind so many of the...
27:40We knew he was involved
27:41in the Tea Party.
27:43We don't quite know how,
27:45and part of that
27:46is that he burned his letters
27:47and he burned his correspondence.
27:49So later in the war,
27:51some of the founders
27:52were seeing where things were going.
27:54They would actually go back
27:55and sometimes modify their letters
27:57with a little bit of a view
27:58towards their reputation in Postert.
27:59He was burning his letters
28:01left and right.
28:01He sort of didn't care about,
28:02you know,
28:03his own reputation in the future.
28:05What he really cared about
28:07was the nation.
28:08I think that purity of heart...
28:11He's my favorite,
28:11so I might choose him.
28:16For me, you know,
28:17I mean,
28:18who wouldn't want to be
28:19George Washington?
28:24So I can't say that,
28:25can I, right?
28:28And who wants to be
28:29John Adams, right?
28:33Fat, bald, and obnoxious, right?
28:36But I think I'd choose
28:37John Adams anyway, maybe,
28:39believe it or not.
28:41I mean, he,
28:42along with his relative Sam,
28:45were the instigators.
28:46And they pulled people together.
28:49And I think John Adams,
28:51you know,
28:51he knew he couldn't introduce
28:53the resolution himself.
28:55So he had a guy from Virginia
28:57introduce it, right?
28:58And I just think he saw ahead.
29:01And he wrote to his wife,
29:03Abigail,
29:03and he adored his wife,
29:04Abigail.
29:05I mean,
29:05their letters are beautiful.
29:06And he wrote to her
29:08about July 2nd,
29:10that that's the day
29:11that's going to go down
29:12in the history of mankind
29:13that changed everything.
29:15And he was right
29:15about everything
29:16except for the day.
29:19And I just think
29:21he's a remarkable,
29:22remarkable man.
29:25So, you know,
29:27he and Jefferson fought
29:28after the Declaration.
29:29They were peas in a pod
29:30during writing the Declaration,
29:31but later they just
29:32fought for years,
29:33completely saw
29:34the course of the country
29:35differently.
29:36They didn't speak for years.
29:38And both of them
29:39had a sizable ego.
29:42And Adams,
29:42quite a temper.
29:46But toward the end
29:47of their life,
29:49they renewed
29:50their friendship.
29:51And they started
29:52exchanging letters,
29:53about 140 of them in all.
29:55And they're beautiful letters.
29:57There's a letter
29:58of Jefferson
29:59consoling Adams
30:00after he lost Abigail.
30:02This is just
30:03one of the most
30:04beautiful condolence letters
30:05you'll ever read.
30:07And they became
30:08friends again
30:09because they realized
30:10that for all
30:11that divided them,
30:13those three great ideas
30:15were more important
30:17and they united them.
30:19And I think
30:20the two men saw
30:21the future of our country
30:22pretty clearly.
30:24We're going to disagree.
30:25There are going to be people
30:26who want more states' rights.
30:27There are going to be people
30:27who want more
30:28federal government power.
30:29We're going to go
30:30hammer and tong.
30:31And they called
30:31each other names.
30:33But at the end
30:34of the end
30:34of the end
30:35of the day,
30:36more unites us
30:37than delights us.
30:39Amen.
30:46So this one's
30:47not about the book,
30:48but I think
30:49it's a curious one.
30:51What are your hobbies,
30:53if any,
30:54and what's
30:54your favorite music?
30:58I have three young kids,
30:59so I don't currently
31:01have hobbies.
31:02No.
31:04I love hiking
31:05with my kids.
31:05I love the outdoors.
31:06I love reading.
31:07I love, love, love
31:09introducing them
31:09to U.S. history.
31:10They're 6, 9, 11,
31:12so they're just
31:12sort of on the cusp
31:13of learning about this.
31:15I have to take them
31:16to this library.
31:17These libraries
31:17are just incredible.
31:20Seeing Nixon's home
31:22out there,
31:24it's really incredible.
31:25So a lot of what I do now
31:27is focused around my kids,
31:28but it's really nice
31:29to see the world
31:32through their eyes
31:33and see how they're learning
31:36about the history
31:37of this nation.
31:40I love to ski moguls.
31:42I love to fly fish.
31:44I love to row my sculling boat.
31:46I like to ride my bike to work.
31:48I love to spend time
31:49with my wife,
31:50and when my daughters
31:51allow them to.
31:54They being in their 20s,
31:55they don't allow very often.
31:58But one of the greatest hobbies
31:59I have,
32:00if you want to call it that,
32:02is, you know,
32:02as a judge,
32:03we get very small stabs.
32:05I think if the framers
32:06could come back,
32:07they'd recognize
32:08the judicial branch
32:10in a lot of ways.
32:11Nine old people
32:12debating about,
32:13you know,
32:14there's this dangling modifier
32:15in this statue
32:17and talking about
32:18the First Amendment.
32:20You know,
32:20I mean,
32:20they'd recognize what we,
32:21we get four young people
32:22who rotate through
32:23and with us for one year.
32:25And one of the great hobbies,
32:27if you want to call it that,
32:28or joys in my life,
32:29is being able to have
32:30four young people
32:31in my office
32:32who don't know how
32:32to use the phone system,
32:33but they're really smart.
32:36And spend a year with them
32:37and then watch them
32:38launch off
32:39and do great things
32:41and be courageous
32:42and be one of the 40%
32:44who stood up,
32:46not one of the 60%
32:47left behind.
32:49This is one.
32:50I got two more
32:52in the audience tonight.
32:53David Fetter
32:54and Judge,
32:57Ninth Circuit Judge,
32:58Eric Tum.
33:08You in California
33:09are very lucky to have him.
33:14We talked about
33:15civic education,
33:16K-12,
33:17and you even made
33:17reference to college.
33:19This question is,
33:19what role should law schools play
33:21about educating future lawyers
33:23about the debates
33:24and events
33:25that led
33:25to our Constitution?
33:29Okay.
33:31We have work to do.
33:33Dean,
33:33we've got a lot
33:34to talk about here,
33:35okay?
33:36I am thoroughly depressed
33:38about how many young people,
33:39law students,
33:40law graduates
33:41who come into my chambers
33:42and cannot recognize
33:43James Madison
33:44hanging over the fireplace.
33:46He's pretty distinctive,
33:48that widow's peak.
33:50You know,
33:51walking through the court
33:53not recognizing
33:54Taft.
33:57He's very recognizable.
34:00I want you to stand up
34:03and be brave.
34:04By God,
34:06learn something
34:06for brave.
34:08By God,
34:09learn something
34:10first.
34:11Right?
34:12If you...
34:20You know,
34:21if you see a gate
34:22there in the field,
34:23you say,
34:23oh,
34:23it's an ugly gate,
34:24tear it down.
34:25Well,
34:26you might want to know
34:26why somebody put it up.
34:28There could be
34:28a herd of buffalo
34:29on the other side.
34:31So,
34:33and American history
34:34is just full
34:34of interesting people
34:36who tried it.
34:37It's like thought experiments.
34:39You can see
34:40what worked,
34:41what didn't work
34:42and take not just ideas
34:44but virtues
34:45from the past.
34:46It's so helpful
34:48in what I do
34:48and I think
34:49just to be a good person
34:50to understand
34:51how others
34:52have lived their lives
34:53before you,
34:54right?
34:55And so,
34:56I just really...
34:58I know it's almost
34:59remedial education
35:00to have to do that
35:01in law school today
35:02and that's sad
35:05but it has to be done
35:07somewhere.
35:08I will say
35:09that in Chapman
35:10University's campus
35:11we do have a bust
35:12of James Madison.
35:14Just for the record.
35:18Okay,
35:19two more questions
35:19before I turn it back
35:20over to Jim
35:21to wrap us up.
35:22The first was a question
35:23that the students
35:24didn't get to ask you
35:25so I will ask
35:26on their behalf
35:26which is,
35:27what do you plan
35:28to do on July 4th?
35:31Can I say
35:32our time to go ahead?
35:33All right.
35:33Ted?
35:35Yeah,
35:35the idea.
35:38Hopefully,
35:39hopefully we'll be
35:40celebrating July 4th
35:41in Colonial Williamsburg
35:42which the Justice
35:44is part of the board,
35:46right?
35:46So it's near and dear
35:48to his heart
35:48and we talked about
35:48actually in our
35:49last book,
35:50Overruled,
35:50as part of the civic
35:51education piece
35:52of that book
35:53because Colonial Williamsburg
35:55is just a wonderful place
35:56where kids and families
35:58and adults
35:58can go
35:59and sort of see
35:59how people lived
36:01back in the colonial days
36:02and they're planning
36:03on putting on
36:04a great party
36:05and plan taking
36:06my family down
36:07and probably dressing
36:08them up
36:09in colonial garb.
36:10Maybe I'll wear some too.
36:11Maybe the Justice will.
36:17It'd be a nice place to be.
36:19Great.
36:20And then final question
36:21before I turn it over
36:22to Jim.
36:24We're here
36:25in the Nixon
36:26Presidential Library.
36:27Can you take a moment
36:27to reflect on
36:28President Nixon
36:29and what he means
36:30to the country?
36:31I'd be delighted
36:32to do that.
36:34Think about
36:35what he went through.
36:38Okay?
36:39This is what Nixon
36:39means to me
36:40if you want.
36:41He lost the presidency
36:43in 1960.
36:45He then came home
36:46to California
36:47and promptly lost
36:48the governor's seat too.
36:52He didn't stop.
36:53He ran again
36:54and he won.
36:55He went through
36:56Watergate.
36:58And he managed
36:59to come back
36:59from that too
37:00and contribute
37:02and write books
37:03and offer his learning.
37:05Think about
37:06how many people
37:06would have fallen apart
37:09along the way.
37:11Right?
37:11A nervous breakdown.
37:14Become an alcoholic.
37:16Just completely give up.
37:18And I do think
37:19that there's a lesson
37:20in there
37:20for young people
37:21willing to learn it
37:22which is
37:24carry on.
37:25Be brave.
37:35I can't think
37:37of a better way
37:38to conclude
37:39this evening's
37:40presentation.
37:41Let's thank again
37:42Justice Gorsuch,
37:43Janie Nietzsche,
37:45and President Matt
37:45Parlow
37:46of Chaplain
37:47University.
38:06Ladies and gentlemen,
38:07the Justice
38:07is going to sign books
38:09so if you haven't
38:11purchased a book
38:11you may do so
38:12at the Nixon Library
38:14gift shop.
38:15Thank you for coming
38:15and enjoy your evenings.
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