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05:26April 29th
05:27I was out of MHA but there was this another very important meeting
05:31taking place at 7 LKM wherein the tri services chief were meeting the prime minister and later that day sir
05:38there was this statement by the prime minister saying that he has given a free hand to the defense all
05:45the three services chiefs that whatever befitting reply they think is appropriate at this point they can go ahead with
05:52that.
05:52Post that post that we saw how operation sindur and how it demonstrated a coordinated effort by the tri services
05:59chief in such a short but yet a very intense conflict.
06:04What is the lesson that we take from this and how can we use this moving forward for future operations?
06:12Look I think the key lesson clearly as you mentioned is that you know the three services have to come
06:18together and there has to be tri service coordination.
06:22For any operation of this of this nature.
06:25And so we saw that while much of the focus is on the airstrikes there were also ground operations going
06:31on across the line of control.
06:34The Navy had you know sailed out and were poised for any operation that they need to sort of undertake.
06:42I think the real question here is what is the form that this tri service coordination should take.
06:50And I raise this issue because you know after Operation Sindur there were some questions which are raised so for
06:59example the air chief you know raise the issue of whether theatrization is the best model.
07:06Should we just have some coordination cell in Delhi which can manage this tri service coordination.
07:15Other service chiefs disagreed and they said no theatrization is important.
07:19So I think what's important for us is that there will be some consensus on this.
07:26And I think we are moving forward so we are seeing in the media for example that proposal for theatrization
07:31has been sent by the CDS to the Raksha Mandri.
07:35Yeah.
07:36So hopefully that will that will come about.
07:38But I think there is there is no doubt in the fact that the single service planning for operations is
07:46not the way to go in the future.
07:47The three services will have to come together and you know make make common plans.
07:52Yes given that over the years whenever any sort of operation has been taken undertaken this was the first time
08:00when we actually saw all three of them coming together.
08:03We had Navy on standby.
08:05We saw how our soldiers on foot how they were performing at LAC, LOC and we then have the air
08:14services also doing their job very perfectly.
08:16So this is the first time that the coordination sit very well.
08:21Yeah yeah so particularly for a limited operation so I won't say first time I mean 1971 war was also
08:27an example of the three services sort of working together.
08:31Yeah.
08:31But I think what it indicates is that whenever the three services sit down plan operations together the effect is
08:39going to be much better and more sort of magnified.
08:42Okay.
08:44So we did discuss we I did mention earlier that we'll also talk about the disinformation campaign undertaken by Pakistan,
08:52not just during Operation Sindhuur but post Operation Sindhuur as well.
08:55All of us who have covered war.
08:58Everybody is well aware of this factor psyops.
09:02However, what we saw during Operation Sindhuur is Pakistan very aggressively indulging itself into disseminating false information.
09:12So in your opinion how has this narrative setting has evolved ever since 2016 to now 2025 and now in
09:22the present day 2026.
09:25So Swamya you know what you are saying narrative building typically in the military we term it as information warfare.
09:32Yeah.
09:33So information warfare now is no longer a secondary aspect that you know fighting is main and information is secondary.
09:43It's become one of the key ingredients of conflicts and wars.
09:50And what we have seen over a period of time is that this information warfare has become more and more
09:55sophisticated.
09:57So for example social media algorithms have become much smarter.
10:03Yeah.
10:04They're able to send messages with much more targeted sort of precision.
10:07We're talking about artificial intelligence having come in.
10:10And so you have deep fakes where it becomes extremely difficult to distinguish between what is true, what is fake.
10:20But I would say you know when we look at information warfare on additive building, we should not look merely
10:26and not look at it merely as something that you know as a military responsibility.
10:32It requires a whole of the nation approach.
10:37We know how you know messaging can impact societies, bring in divisions.
10:44You know we talk about look to people who are neighbors living in alternative realities depending on what they are
10:51seeing on social media, what they are reading, what they are hearing.
10:56This idea of distinguishing what is true, what is false has become much more difficult.
11:01And which is why I say it requires a whole of nation approach where you need to build resilient societies.
11:09You need to teach people how to distinguish between fake news and correct news.
11:15We need to bring in sophisticated media personnel into the military information warfare campaign.
11:20So all this must sort of come together, you know, for a national approach.
11:26So like you mentioned how messaging is very important when it comes to narrative building, especially when two nations are
11:34inching towards a war like situation or for that matter conflict.
11:39This last year in July, first week of July, via a source, I got access to a dossier, which had
11:48all the information with regards to how there was this coordinated effort between Pakistan and China with regards to Rafale.
11:55If you remember on 7th of May, right after the operation, there was this claim by Pakistan that they have
12:01shot down five Indian aircrafts.
12:03The last three of them were Rafael and later on that dossier goes on to explain how this was a
12:10coordinated effort and how influential people, journalists, think tanks from Pakistan were being used to peddle this news similar with
12:18pro China outlets as well.
12:20What do you have to say about that?
12:22So absolutely what you're saying is correct.
12:24Right.
12:25So Pakistan narrative basically was that, look, we are only being defensive.
12:31India has aggressively sort of attacked us and they are responsible for the conflict.
12:37But we have managed to inflict such large casualties on them that actually we have come out on top.
12:45So the other narrative, of course, as you said, was an attempt to build up Chinese weapons and equipment.
12:54Yeah.
12:54That these are much better than, you know, the Western equipment.
12:58And I think there was also an idea behind it that now Chinese weapons have been tested in combat.
13:07And therefore, these are the better ones that we need to buy.
13:10The reality, of course, we know it's quite different.
13:12I mean, the kind of damage that was caused by Indian strikes, particularly on the last day,
13:18where we attacked, you know, the whole length and breadth of Pakistan taking down their air bases.
13:26But again, this again, you know, shows the power of the narrative.
13:30If you ask somebody in Pakistan, he'll say, look, we won.
13:33Of course.
13:34Yes.
13:35I have spoken to journalists who have this kind of a view that they have probably won this.
13:40Yeah.
13:41And, you know, because of that, when the army chief was promoted to field marshal.
13:47Yes.
13:48So again, this is a sort of a reality of information warfare that even if you are losing,
13:55you can somehow create an image of a victory.
13:59And so, again, I think the way we need to deal with it has to also be very sophisticated.
14:10Sir, other than this Rafal situation, you might have followed very closely what was happening last year.
14:17So, in your opinion, what was one of the most misleading claims from Pakistan's end?
14:22And how different it was from what was actually happening on the ground?
14:26No, no. So, you see, Pakistan was putting out claims that they have destroyed our promos,
14:31they have hacked into our system, they have destroyed the S-400.
14:36I think the whole idea was because there people were seeing the destruction that is happening in Pakistan on the
14:42ground.
14:43And so the idea was to sort of tell them that look equal amount of damage and destruction is being
14:49actually caused to Indian forces.
14:52And so you found thousands of fake videos of damages that were doing the rounds on, you know, X and
15:01Facebook, etc.
15:02Yeah.
15:05Sir, we wanted to discuss also about how there has been a strategic reset in the Indian defense system.
15:14Post-Operation Sindhuur, how do you think India has managed to reset its deterrence doctrine against Pakistan-sponsored terrorism?
15:25Look, I think if you want to see the real sort of shape of the doctrinal reset, we just have
15:33to listen to Prime Minister Modi's speech,
15:36which he gave out after Operation Sindhuur.
15:38And he has laid down, you know, three very clear sort of red lines.
15:42The first is that any terror attack on India will meet a crushing response at a time of our own
15:50choosing.
15:52He also said that, look, we are not going to submit to Pakistan nuclear blackmail zone.
15:58Every time anything happens, Pakistan will sort of start waving the nuclear card.
16:02So we are not going to succumb to that. That was the second thing.
16:05And the third thing was that we don't distinguish between terror groups and their sponsors.
16:11And I think this is again a very critical sort of and powerful message that,
16:17look, we know Pakistan army is behind this.
16:20So the next time it won't be that we are just going to hit terror camps, but we could also
16:24hit the sponsors.
16:27Also, I think another powerful message is the holding of the Indus Water Treaty in obedience.
16:34Yeah.
16:35Because this has a long term impact on Pakistan, agriculture, economy, etc.
16:45So I think this is a real doctrinal reset.
16:50Whether this will completely deter Pakistan, that they will stop using terrorism as an instrument of state policy,
16:57I think we have to watch and see.
17:01Because Pakistan military has used terror as an instrument of state policy,
17:06they have encouraged the growth of these terror groups.
17:09Can they immediately roll it back? Will they immediately roll it back?
17:12And these are, I think, some questions that are still sort of up in the air.
17:18So my last question to you is, looking forward, how do you think India should strategically work on these successes
17:25of Operation Sindhu,
17:27that it can help India for future operations as well?
17:33See, I think what we need is a long term sustained strategy.
17:40And when I talk about long term sustained strategy, I don't mean a strategy that relies only on military action.
17:47Okay.
17:48Military action is important and that, you know, we have used it in the past.
17:53But there needs to be sustained pressure on Pakistan.
17:56That sustained pressure is one military pressure, economic pressure, diplomatic pressure.
18:05How do we sort of show to the world that here is a state which is a sponsor of terrorism
18:12and therefore put sort of pressure?
18:16We earlier had pressure through the financial action task force.
18:20That unfortunately has got removed.
18:22So can we sort of reimpose that, talk about that?
18:28I think the key point here is, can Pakistan leadership be brought around to the view that Pakistan is better
18:37off not provoking India?
18:39Now, somebody might be cynical and say, look, this is not possible.
18:42They are what they are and therefore we cannot do.
18:45But I still think, you know, we can't say that diplomacy has no role to play in India-Pakistan relation.
18:53And diplomacy must be given, given some sort of chance.
18:57So I think it's sustained pressure and multiple level is, I think, what will work much more than, you know,
19:06one military operation every four, five years.
19:10Thank you so much, sir, for your time and for such strong insights on everything in and around Operation Sindhu
19:16and what's in future for India.
19:19Thank you so much for your time, sir.
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