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Snapped - Season 36 - Episode 07: Evelyn Zigerelli-Henderson
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TVTranscript
00:05you get a phone call from the police saying your father was killed in an accident
00:10how could that happen how could that happen you know you could immediately see he was burned
00:17severely from head to toe simplest explanation is probably the correct one
00:25he was a known cigar smoker who was on oxygen but is it the result of a tragic accident
00:33or something more sinister
00:38some scenes make perfect sense but this scene completely confused me
00:44you could immediately see that he had no clothing on the worst burns were on his back which indicated
00:53where the fire had started
00:59when the evidence leads to a seemingly disturbed suspect investigators must determine whether
01:06the crime was unintentional or if it's all an act
01:13you knew that there was something wrong with her mind it certainly appears that she had poor impulse
01:18control we all knew she was going to take his life one day what we were surprised about is the
01:24way
01:24that she did he screamed for me he's like come out back he was on fire screaming my name when
01:32she told
01:32me that i knew i was truly in the presence of evil
01:50june 16th 2022
01:53it's 5 23 a.m in susquehanna township pennsylvania when police receive a strange 911 call
02:02what's your name evelyn
02:05your last name
02:07vigorelli
02:08henderson
02:08tell me exactly what happened
02:10yeah i believe uh carmen q henderson
02:15did not make it
02:18he um
02:19what do you mean did not make it
02:20no you gotta be specific with me i'm not understanding what you're trying to tell me
02:24i think he is deceased
02:28the 911 operator is trying to get some information how do you know that he
02:32has passed away is he still breathing and she's like i i just know
02:44she said to the 911 operator that she had seen him at one o'clock in the morning heard him
02:53yell
02:53and chose at that time not to call 911
02:59she indicated that she found him in the morning when she got up
03:03the dispatcher's typing this information in uh it's going to the responding police officers
03:09the dispatcher felt there was something not quite right with the car
03:15police rush to the address where they are met by evelyn
03:20purple alex wagner was the first on scene
03:22he asked what's going on
03:24and she said
03:25my husband's out back and he's dead
03:29as he's approaching the back door
03:31he could see mr henderson on the ground
03:34on the back patio
03:37he's just completely
03:38burned to death
03:41the officer immediately secures the scene and calls for backup
03:46as i come around the back there's a stone patio
03:49i look down and there is a naked burnt man
03:56i was completely not ready for that
04:00i knew mr henderson from years ago
04:03he was a retired susquehman township police officer
04:06probably back in the late 70s early 80s
04:10some scenes make perfect sense
04:11you look and you can say okay this is likely what happened
04:15but this scene completely confused me
04:17and we're looking at the possibility of an accident
04:20maybe he set himself on fire with the cigar
04:24investigators know that his wife evelyn must have answers
04:27they pull her away from the scene to get more information
04:31the questions running through our minds were related to the different scenarios of how this could have occurred
04:40most of the attention was focusing on trying to determine if this happened accidentally or intentionally
04:48the other day
04:54carmen q henderson was born october 31st 1937 in philadelphia to a doting mother
05:03my grandmother his mother took care gave him everything he was he had everything was to have as a child
05:11he grew up in germantown they moved up to harrisburg to change the way life was going for them
05:18his mother worked for the orphanage which is now the ywca and my dad went to school at william ben
05:27high school
05:30carmen met his first wife in high school
05:34the pair had two daughters together while he served in the military
05:38he was a airplane mechanic in the air force
05:42when he came out of the service he worked for firestone as a mechanic
05:50before long carmen decided he'd had enough of engine repair
05:54and began a new career back in pennsylvania
05:58first he was a state police officer
05:59then after that switched over to being a susquehanna township police officer
06:04he was one of the first minority police officers in this area
06:09his reputation was uh
06:12everybody thought he was an incredible man
06:16during his early career in law enforcement
06:18carmen and his wife separated
06:20but he remained close to his daughters
06:24even though we lived with our mother
06:26i would see my dad every day
06:27because i would go to my grandma's house after school every day
06:30and my dad was there and my grandma would cook dinner
06:33and me and my dad would eat dinner every day
06:36he took us to the philadelphia zoo
06:38he took us to the land city
06:40to jersey because he liked the land city
06:43my dad took us everywhere
06:47carmen was just as caring with the people in his community
06:51he had risen through the ranks to be a deputy sheriff in dauphin county
06:58he was a good man he was a fair man
07:00and he was very well liked
07:03all different colored people i would run into and they would tell me
07:06that my dad helped him a lot when they were on parole and stuff
07:10how you know it changed their lives
07:13he didn't treat them like criminals
07:15he treated them like people
07:18and i think that's what why everybody liked him so much
07:21carmen henderson was the grandpa of the neighborhood
07:26he was like mr rogers
07:27people love this man
07:29one person struck by carmen's charm was evelyn zigarelli
07:35born on march 4th 1956 in beaver county pennsylvania
07:41evelyn also seemed destined for a life of service
07:45she came from a family with a political background out in southwestern pa
07:51throughout high school evie was active in a range of activities
07:56including band sports and student government
07:59she carried a strong work ethic from adolescence into adulthood
08:04running for local office in 1983
08:07she was elected clerk of courts in beaver county in the mid-80s
08:13eventually she came to the harrisburg area
08:15and after she was here after she met mr henderson
08:18she tried to run for office in dauphin county
08:22no nonsense evelyn found a lifelong ally and supporter in carmen
08:27the pair married in 1991
08:30and carmen's good reputation bolstered evelyn's political confidence
08:36she made several bids for office
08:38she came from beaver county
08:40and she thought that her experience and accolades
08:43and her past status as an elected official out there
08:46would instantly transfer over
08:52that was a rude awakening when she came here and realized all of a sudden
08:55no you're you're an outsider
08:58after a slew of lost elections
09:01evelyn and carmen decided to pivot their energy into opening a business
09:06say you know i'm just gonna give me a limousine
09:08that's what i'll do i'll just give me a limousine
09:10and start my own profession
09:13he did most of the work for the cars
09:16so he was able to save a lot of money that way
09:20evelyn ran the day-to-day part of the booking the trips
09:24and getting clients
09:27they literally had the monopoly on limousines at one point
09:31and i can only imagine you know how proud he was of a business that he built
09:37but by 2022 the business had lost much of its revenue due to carmen's failing health
09:44mr henderson's health had been declining to some extent he was becoming more frail he was 84 years old
09:53he wasn't able to walk as easily as he used to
09:59mr carmen was just you know getting older
10:02they were still getting some income in
10:05but it just slowly faded away
10:13but now carmen has been found burned to death in his own backyard
10:19and police are desperate for answers
10:22evelyn she now acts kind of surprised
10:27basically saying he caught himself on fire
10:31he was a cigar smoker
10:33everyone told us that he likes to smoke cigars out back
10:37and he will sometimes light the wrappers on fire
10:41so at one point she said
10:44maybe he set himself on fire because he was burning the wrappers
10:48her demeanor was described as strange
10:51you would expect someone to be hysterically crying and upset and inconsolable
10:54and she was just flat and had just a monotone reaction to everything
10:59one possibility would be that she's simply in shock from from what has occurred and what she witnessed
11:08i mean what's a normal reaction to have to your husband being burned alive
11:11there is no uniform normal reaction
11:16evelyn's bizarre response combined with the circumstances of carmen's death and the state of the home
11:22bolster detective's sense of urgency
11:25we treat every suspicious death as a homicide until proven otherwise
11:30so i knew we were going to have to get a search warrant for the house
11:33i knew we were going to have to remove her from the house
11:36in order to perform the search warrant to secure the scene
11:39make sure nothing gets tampered with
11:43i took a closer look inside the house absolutely deplorable
11:47it was filthy
11:49there was rotted food
11:52plates sitting haphazardly
11:55it was
11:57it was it was squalor
12:02coming up
12:04a search warrant provides strange clues
12:08people don't burn as bad as mr henderson does without accelerant
12:15and an interview with evelyn compounds the mystery
12:19it happened yesterday
12:21what happened
12:23when he caught himself on fire
12:40pennsylvania police are investigating the bizarre death of a former officer
12:4584 year old carmen henderson
12:49his wife evelyn zigarelli henderson thinks he caught himself on fire
12:54but given the neglected state of their home
12:57detectives wonder about her mental state
13:00one of the first things that we look at in terms of how well people are doing mentally
13:06is how well do they take care of themselves
13:09if they're out of touch with reality
13:12or even just severely emotionally distressed
13:15that can be reflected in what surrounds them
13:18sometimes a place filled with clutter
13:21and that is not clean
13:22and has all sorts of indications of mental illness
13:26we asked her when did you see him last
13:28she said last night he went out to smoke a cigar
13:31around seven or eight o'clock
13:32and i went to bed
13:33and she said that she didn't see him until she woke up this morning called 9-1-1
13:40evelyn originally said she saw carmen around 1 a.m
13:45evelyn is confusing details
13:47and when you're getting different pieces of information like evelyn is giving here
13:51police are certainly going to be concerned about whether or not evelyn is a reliable source of information
13:56she had indicated that she was bipolar
14:00and she had stopped taking her her medication
14:04the characteristic bipolar disorder
14:07is cyclical mood swings
14:09from periods of elation
14:11to periods of depression
14:12this can affect memory
14:15and cause a person to become confused
14:16and that sometimes doesn't allow that person
14:19to perceive what's going on in the world
14:21in front of them
14:23so i said to her i said would you mind coming with us to the police station to talk and
14:27she said absolutely
14:30as evelyn is transported to the susquehanna township police station
14:34investigators search for other potential witnesses
14:39law enforcement canvases the neighborhood
14:41they want to talk to neighbors and see if anyone saw or heard anything
14:45no one reported hearing any yelling any screaming
14:49this was june so it could be you know that people had air conditioners in their windows
14:53it could be the time of night it happened maybe everyone was in a deep sleep
14:58at first glance the scene itself doesn't provide many answers either
15:04you could immediately see uh that he had no clothing on
15:10and he was burned severely from head to toe
15:15my question is you know why is he naked
15:18when you looked on the ground there was actually a pile of debris
15:23burned debris everything charred
15:26uh there were shoes parts of a belt a cuff of a shirt
15:32and so the more you kind of looked at the scene
15:35the more it became apparent that he actually was dressed when he caught fire
15:41we believed as he was on fire
15:45he more than likely was disrobing
15:50the severity of the burns raises other questions
15:55the initial thought is there must have been some sort of accelerant
15:59some kind of liquid flammable liquid that would have been poured onto him
16:04either by himself or or somebody else that would have ignited to cause those kind of burns
16:12people don't burn as bad as mr henderson does without accelerant
16:17there are no nearby accelerants carmen could have used when igniting the fire
16:23we actually brought a dog an arson dog to the scene
16:27the dog ran through the scene and came back as uh not indicating that they they detected any form
16:35of accelerant but the one thing the dogs don't hit on is alcohol because it's common to homes
16:43so i'm just because the dog didn't hit on anything that doesn't mean that there wasn't an accelerant used
16:50now there was ignition source on the table we found a lighter
16:56and also very strange we found a paper towel that was rolled up and burnt at one end almost as
17:05if
17:05it was used like some people would use it to start pilot lights or something like that
17:09so it didn't look this did not look accidental at all
17:15closer inspection of the patio reveals another clue
17:20there was a blue chair kind of off to the left as you walk out of the house and then
17:26there was
17:26another chair that was a gray chair like a folding camping chair that was turned on its side on the
17:33ground over near the wall the gray chair was involved in the fire it clearly had been burned
17:40in the back portion that you would lean against that was completely burned away
17:45but the arms the seat of the chair and the foot rest were not burned at all
17:51but the most important piece of evidence comes from carmen's body
17:57i look closely at his face a lot of times when someone is alive when they're burning you'll see soot
18:05on the nose as there is a breathing in the soot but what i found was fly larva
18:14fly larva is generally about 24 hours after time of death so that told me immediately that the story
18:21evelyn told 9-1-1 dispatcher was a complete lie because there's no way with a short amount of time
18:28could flies have landed on the body and left their eggs behind they definitely think that something
18:36sinister has happened to him this is probably one of the worst ways that somebody could die
18:43so did she not remember because of her mental illness or is it deception
18:50either way it appears impossible that carmen lit himself on fire
19:10over three hours after evelyn henderson called 9-1-1 investigators are now seriously questioning
19:17her account of her husband's death when they sit down with her at the police station they ask her to
19:25go over the details of that evening again her demeanor is relatively the same as it is on the scene
19:32you know she doesn't get upset she is not crying she doesn't seem like she's grieving
19:38it did not seem like she was in any sort of shock from the incident at that point that that
19:45seemed like it may have been the case on the scene but now we're
19:49hours later she's removed from the scene uh and she's clearly understanding the questions
20:00so what happened that we're here today can you explain that to me well i called 9-1-1
20:08because carmen henderson needed help i'm trying to get her
20:13into a story that's consistent that she's staying with on the scene her version was that the last
20:21time she saw mr henderson was at seven o'clock at night and then she went to bed and didn't
20:28see him
20:28again till the morning then when she was talking to sergeant wilson the time changed to 11 o'clock at
20:36night
20:37i said evelyn didn't happen there's fly larvae in his mouth and nose i said that takes at least 24
20:45hours to develop happened yesterday what yesterday what happened yesterday when he caught himself on
20:53fire okay so now walk us through that because now we're talking about a whole different timeline now
20:59when someone is not giving proper sequencing it could be
21:02due to deception but it could also be due to a number of other factors including trauma
21:10unable to put evelyn in a consistent timeline they changed tactics when they asked her did
21:17you go outside to the back patio you know she indicates yes i went outside well when i come to
21:24the door it was
21:25already on fire
21:29but i was not up there when it went first down
21:33and that was about what time i don't know i guess it was four or five o'clock i come
21:39back in to call
21:40my number one to magic he screamed for me he was like come out back he was on fire
21:52so what did he scream he was just screaming my name
21:59evie evie
22:02he fell down he stopped talking and she just went about her day until at approximately 5 30 in the
22:09morning evelyn henderson bowled 9-1-1 investigators are stunned to realize that at least four hours would
22:18have passed before evelyn finally called police when she told me that i knew i was truly in the presence
22:26of
22:26evil evil some people make mistakes some people do bad things but she at that moment struck me as truly
22:32an evil person
22:35i mean how long do you think you looked at him before you called down 15 minutes
22:39so you looked at him for 15 minutes 10 minutes
22:44no no no no no it was less than that okay how long do you think it was
22:48she knows she should have called she saw him go down but she just didn't
22:56she had no good answer for why she waited to call 911 and of course it's hard to come up
23:02with
23:02in your mind when you're trying to think why would anyone wait
23:09could she been having a mental health issue possible absolutely could be possible but how
23:15she was telling the story it just felt to me that it almost felt like it was more of a
23:20controlled act
23:21as opposed to a person with a mental illness i felt she was involved but we didn't even have
23:28anything concrete at that point the interview continues for several more hours as police try
23:35to determine whether evelyn had a reason to murder carmen
23:42she talks about their relationship as being kind of up and down uh that it that it was good for
23:51a long
23:52time but in recent memory that they had they had been arguing that's what we arguing about money
24:02what we argue about money for she goes he doesn't know where all the money went and he was blaming
24:06me
24:06for losing the business evelyn admits she mismanaged the finances of the couple's limousine company
24:16overspending on luxuries the spending on her part the not being able to manage
24:23money um is what kind of put them under she said that she knew that they're going to lose
24:30house they were forty thousand dollars in debt on a second mortgage they they stopped making payments
24:35on it she was worried about losing the home or we're not having a place to stay she admitted
24:42at some point that there's a ten thousand dollar life insurance on him
24:50evelyn said over and over again that she did not do this that he lit himself on fire she kept
24:57saying
24:58that repeatedly so look evelyn i said nothing's making sense i said you know what i said i think
25:06it's going to point back to you evelyn coming up carmen's loved ones share disturbing stories about
25:15evelyn that's crazy bi gcs she effing did it but can investigators prove she committed murder
25:26he was actually breathing in more flames than any sort of smoke it's excruciatingly painful being burned
25:51after a seven hour interrogation detectives are convinced evelyn henderson is the one responsible for her
25:59her husband's gruesome death at that point based on her changing stories not having an accurate timeline
26:08of events and all of the evidence on scene the decision was made to charge the charges the district
26:15attorney told us to go with was aggravated arson which is arson committed during the course of a
26:20felony the felony the felony would be the homicide evelyn is transported to pennsylvania's dauphin county jail
26:27while authorities continue to build a case against her they believe personal testimonials and
26:35forensic evidence will help earn a conviction we certainly had probable cause at that moment to believe
26:44that she had committed this crime and the charges we had charged her with but there were things that still
26:50needed to be done to learn more about the relationship between evelyn and carmen investigators reach out to
26:59family and friends later that same day we get a phone call from the police saying your father was killed
27:06in
27:06accident they were saying that he was set on fire and said how can that be they said it's going
27:13to be
27:13treated as a homicide so we're like well who did it and they said we arrested your dad's wife
27:24i'm like that crazy excuse me that crazy brt series she effing did
27:34according to carmen's loved ones the problems in the marriage had nothing to do with his treatment of evelyn
27:42my dad gave her everything everything you think of trips cars flows jewelry he did everything that she
27:53wanted to do but she didn't seem appreciative of his efforts they said everyone was rude to them was
27:59mean to them treated mr henderson like garbage she didn't want us in the house because of the
28:05things that she was probably doing to my father and he wouldn't tell us in order for my dad to
28:10stay
28:10happy we just didn't go around because it seemed to upset her if we would come over there to see
28:15him
28:19they say evelyn's behavior seemed to grow worse over time
28:24she would really just didn't have any type of people skills so she would be little people she would
28:30be nasty to people
28:34people that worked for the limousine company said she was mean and degrading and never had a kind
28:43word to say about anyone she uh presented herself that she was better than them and everyone below her
28:49she had this air that she was like royalty evelyn was known to have some outburst of anger and even
28:56yelling at strangers sometimes and we know that people who've been diagnosed with bipolar disorder
29:03often engage in that very same behavior
29:09once carmen's age forced him to retire it left evelyn completely in charge of the business and carmen's
29:17failing health he couldn't do all the work that he could do on the cars and evelyn seemed to have
29:26more episodes and when she was having episodes she was also losing business she was such a mean horrible
29:34evil person a lot of people boycotting my dad's business they used to tell my dad all the time you
29:41need to leave her because they saw something too in her that he didn't see he never ever complained about
29:49how how she would scream and holler how she would cuss or anything he loved that
29:57so i just didn't understand what happened why would you kill somebody that love you so much
30:06we suspected just from everything that we knew that she may have grown tired of having to care for him
30:15since he was elderly and was not able to do everything for himself as time went on
30:23that was something that put a larger burden on her i truly believe she was waiting for him to die
30:29and he wouldn't die and in her evil heart she decided that's how she was going to get more money
30:36out of him for the last time
30:41however police still need direct evidence she killed carmen
30:46and there are viable theories to the contrary i believe in occam's razor right which the most
30:54simplest explanation is probably the correct one carmen was a known cigar smoker he was an elderly
31:02gentleman with some physical limitations who was on oxygen i'm just not convinced that she did it
31:10some people have said that she suffered from some type or types of mental illness
31:15but i don't necessarily think that that translates to somebody becoming a murderer
31:23the autopsy still needed to be conducted here and then the fire investigators had to complete their investigation as well
31:29after somebody is charged and or arrested that's really only the beginning of the investigation
31:52the toxicology results for carmen henderson's burned body was found on his porch
31:58a forensic pathologist performs an autopsy the toxicology results for carmen henderson
32:06were not exactly what you would expect to see in a case if someone dies from a fire
32:14oftentimes the thing that kills them is inhaling all of the smoke his blood results did not bear that out
32:22dr rost was able to figure that he was alive when he was burned the one sure indicator of that
32:30was that there was some soot that was ultimately found in his throat area
32:38it this was a fire that caught quickly burned hot and so there wouldn't have been a lot of smoke
32:47initially and so he was actually breathing in more flames than any sort of smoke another huge thing that
32:56was found was that a majority of the worst burns were on his back which indicated that that would have
33:04been where the fire had started that triggered additional conversations talking about could it have
33:12still been accidental how could this happen where the fire essentially starts behind him if it if it's
33:19accidental uh looking at how cigars burn and how they can set clothing on fire it just became more and
33:28more rock solid that there's no way he could have set himself on fire everything in the autopsy was
33:35consistent with this being a homicide based on the evidence investigators believe carmen was sitting in
33:44his deck chair when the fire began the seat of the chair had almost no fire damage to it but
33:53the upper part
33:54of the chair was completely burned away that was something that was consistent with him being lit on
34:01fire from behind police obviously want to go and talk to evelyn and confront her with this information
34:08because it does not align up with any of the stories that she has given to this point
34:13the interview is done the same day as the autopsy
34:18we drive to the dauphin county prison asked to have her brought to an interview room
34:23i said evan look you're the only person that was there
34:26i said you and i both know you set him on fire
34:31it was the longest pause of my life
34:35and she goes i did it
34:40she indicated that carmen was sitting outside on the back patio in the chair
34:46he had his back towards the house then she snuck up behind him and lit the back of the chair
34:52on fire
34:53and that his clothes became engulfed in flames and that he had called out evi evi help me
35:00as he burned and as she watched him burn
35:04those are chilling details you know setting somebody on fire that's not like shooting somebody from a
35:14distance it's a very personal thing and it's excruciatingly painful being burned she really didn't give
35:26a reason why she had done this but her giving the confession and then talking
35:35through the details of how she did it in a way that was totally consistent with what we knew from
35:42the
35:42physical evidence it's validation of what you concluded happened
35:50with evelyn's confession prosecutors believe they have an open and shut
35:55murder case but at the first pre-trial hearing she once again changes her story
36:05by the time the preliminary hearing rolled around she was denying that she did the crime she
36:13she basically recanted her confession so the case wasn't over yet at that point and the investigation
36:19wasn't over if evelyn's confession is determined to be inadmissible prosecutors must have evidence to
36:28prove she set carmen's chair on fire and that it burned quickly enough to kill him before he could escape
36:35the flames the biggest thing we had left to do was to conduct an experiment that
36:42showed this chair could be lit on fire without the use of accelerants the decision was made to take
36:49portions of the chair that we had in evidence and actually test them do live testing on them to see
36:55if they were flammable and how fast they would be engulfed in flames i naturally assume that if you're
37:01making a product that people use while camping it's going to be at least flame resistant well we found out
37:06later that camping chairs burn like solid rocket fuel detectives conclude the chair was incinerated within
37:14a matter of seconds obviously he's an elderly male we know that he has mobility issues trouble getting
37:25around by the time he is able to react um his clothing is now on fire he gets up uh
37:35is frantically moving
37:38around which knocks the chair over gets his clothes off the best he can to try to get away from
37:44the flames
37:45but by then uh it's too late he didn't fall asleep in his favorite chair and die he was murdered
37:52and he
37:53was burnt to death 100 that's what the evidence proves the only remaining question is whether a jury
38:01will believe the evidence for evelyn evelyn henderson's attorneys contended that evelyn had been offered bipolar
38:10medication and had made a false confession to setting the fire
38:28on march 12th 2024 nearly two years after carmen henderson burned to death his wife evelyn zigarelli
38:38henderson goes on trial for his murder my opening statement i started it out essentially with what
38:44carmen's last words likely would have been which was evie evie helped me and i just kind of cried that
38:50out
38:50to the jury five or six times to really get them to understand the impact of how awful of a
38:57death this was
39:00the crux of the defense at trial was essentially to say that evelyn henderson gave a false confession
39:09that the only reason she said she did it was because she had given up as the defense put it
39:17in many of these homicide cases there is an element of mental health the defense in this case certainly
39:24brought up that she was bipolar which really the only evidence of that was she had indicated that
39:30she had stopped taking her medication the claims of her being bipolar came from her and her alone there
39:37was never any extrinsic evidence provided to us about that the defense argues that the fire was simply an
39:46accident evelyn henderson's attorneys also argued that carmen henderson set the fire himself during their
39:53closing arguments going into deliberations we just hope that the jury followed the evidence the
40:03jury's verdict in this case was very interesting they convicted her of second degree murder which is
40:08felony murder in pennsylvania that verdict kind of indicates that the jury didn't think that she meant
40:14to kill carmen henderson but believe that she set the fire
40:21the day that she was convicted there was something that
40:25i had in my mind a surprise for her sheriff chimene leaned over to me he goes you know those
40:31handcuffs
40:32that she's wearing i said yeah those are carmen's i asked evelyn how did those handcuffs fit
40:41i said these were your husband's handcuffs her reaction her eyes kind of opened up and it kind of hit
40:49her
40:52at evelyn's sentencing hearing carmen's friends and family are given the opportunity to tell her how
40:58her actions affected them i told her that if mr carmen had survived the incident he would come in and
41:07bandages and all and be trying to convince the jury that she didn't mean it he would forgive her and
41:14i
41:14told her that's the man you took from everyone when i did the impact about how could you treat someone
41:21like that that was so kind to you and loved you and gave you everything that's what she broke that
41:26was the
41:27first time she ever looked up and you could see in her eyes that she did it and that maybe
41:32she regretted it
41:41it was a relief that we had gotten some justice for carmen and for his family and that they would
41:47be
41:47able to put this portion behind them it's a very small portion of the grief that they'll have to go
41:53for the rest of their lives i don't know why my dad didn't see it how could love overshadow something
41:59that evil i want everybody to know that he was happy always willing to help everybody sociable and best
42:14swimmer ever everyone that you meet has something good to say about that and that was just that kept us
42:22going that we loved him and a lot of other people loved him i wish everybody got a chance to
42:28be around
42:29him and i wish he was hearing that
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