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00:17:08of thing in here the enslaved worked in here and they slept above behind the big house is the rest
00:17:16of the story tourism is a lifeline to the city but that's weighing 30 percent in seven years or so
00:17:29it turns out that millennials and generation z folks them 20-something 30-something year olds
00:17:35they're not as interested in the antebellum stories i call them the gone with the wind stories that are
00:17:40being told here as the baby boomers are and natchez has been really reluctant to expand the narrative
00:17:47even in the face of lost revenue okay which is where i come in i'm about to violate some southern
00:17:54pride narratives with truths and facts so hold your hat on so when you're looking at these houses you're
00:18:04going through natchez understand that they were built by slaves you know and that's the piece of
00:18:10the history that you don't get in the antebellum houses they use the word servant or help you know
00:18:17but these are slaves okay this was dr duncan's servant that was their favorite servant he became
00:18:25the overseer of this house they taught him to read and write those are his actual writings right here
00:18:37so uh dr duncan he was good to his people
00:18:43good afternoon this is auburn this is gwen yeah this will be our last state to stay open
00:18:51i've been a member here 40 years for years we made really really you know good and we could pay
00:18:58our
00:18:58bills but when you get to where you can't pay your bills duh we're all going to miss doing this
00:19:07but
00:19:07it's just gotten to the point where we're all i hate to say this we're getting all too old
00:19:14i guess these aren't politically correct anymore i'm guessing what can you say
00:19:21you know older people sometimes wants it to remain the same but regardless of what you want you know
00:19:29you can't live in the past this is it this is it this is it tragic i hope somebody keeps
00:19:37it open to
00:19:37the public so that we can see the history instead of rewriting history we continue the history
00:19:48from the back where are we from from rock hot springs this is hamburg arkansas arkansas arkansas
00:19:56i think we're all i think we're all i think we're all i think we're all i think we're all
00:19:58i think so
00:19:58oh
00:19:59oh
00:20:06hey wonderful wonderful i ain't got no damn yankees on here this gonna be a good tour
00:20:14hey how did they like their money oh i'm gonna tell you baby when i get through with you you're
00:20:19gonna be able to buy a van and be my competition there you go yes and so if i forget
00:20:24something
00:20:24well just ask away by 1815 the textile mills in manchester england are producing 90 percent of
00:20:32the cloth for the entire continent i said the continent of europe and the number one raw material
00:20:38for the cloth is grown in the southern states the demand for cotton becomes insatiable newspaper ads
00:20:46and natchez say buy more slaves to grow more cotton to buy more slaves to grow more cotton
00:20:50and the cotton kingdom my dear friends is born
00:21:01first of all i want to thank you for coming to melrose my name is barney and i'll be your
00:21:06tour guide
00:21:10anytime you're open for public tours you're going to have the whole world come in and they're all
00:21:16going to have their own education and their own experiences and their own expectations
00:21:21we can never be everything to everybody
00:21:26i mean i will speak as a southerner and as a mississippian natchez is a complicated little town
00:21:34because of tourism natchez swallowed a master narrative about the old south
00:21:40we all want to be rich and we want to be princesses and live in palaces
00:21:46if it's a fairy tale that's one thing but if it's what you then decide is truth then that can
00:21:53be much
00:21:59more dangerous
00:21:59hello beautiful thank you
00:22:08oh i got her skirt that was it
00:22:13the first time i put this dress on as an older woman i probably felt the most beautiful and ladylike
00:22:20that i've ever felt in my life
00:22:24hello
00:22:28it changes the way people look at me and it changes the way you know i feel about myself
00:22:36i grew up always knowing that i was adopted i didn't know any specifics because it was a very taboo
00:22:43subject back then so i've struggled with a lot of things and about myself
00:22:54so when i put on this dress i felt like i belonged like i did fit in
00:23:14natchez mississippi was built up on ambition and this lady's up north she said why is it all of you
00:23:20southern gent little southern gentlemen why are y'all always so arrogant i said honey we're not
00:23:26arrogant you're totally misconstrued we're just proud of what we accomplished and that's the truth
00:23:31there's a great deal of difference because let me tell you look around we worked our butts off for
00:23:36what you see for seven generations and still working them all to keep it above water
00:23:43very few men can say that all their life their business has been their hobby
00:23:49and i want to spend their business i had to wear my mic today my voice is going down y
00:23:55'all
00:23:56our age we're the old guard now of course i'm only 35
00:24:01it's our damn houses that wear your butt out mentally physically financially
00:24:05so we're doing our regular tour day
00:24:11then on top of that our private tours then our tea dinners and things of that nature
00:24:18thank you all for coming thank you for having us beautiful thank you we live in another world
00:24:26everything i do is the better of the chart talk it's continuous workload
00:24:37we're all crazy i think it's the humidity has affected our brain we better not stay too long
00:25:03but i'm sorry thank you all right david garner god david garner at choctaw they throw me good
00:25:08pieces of business from time to time you know every effort is made to be civil and sweet
00:25:16but my interactions with the garden club folks are surface level okay okay thank you
00:25:23all right thank you my friends
00:25:29I don't live in Natchez.
00:25:32Natchez is in Adams County, 32 miles from where I live, in Jefferson County.
00:25:39All right, Doc, what's happening?
00:25:40You still there?
00:25:43Yes, sir.
00:25:43It's been a long time, ain't it?
00:25:47So Jesus, he say, who do men say that I, the Son of Man, am?
00:25:54Because he knew who he was.
00:25:57Yes, sir.
00:25:58Listen, let me help you out with a little history.
00:26:00You know I'm a big-time history buff.
00:26:02One of the master's main tactics was to get us to hate one another.
00:26:08The light-skinned slave better than the dark-skinned slave.
00:26:12The house slave better than the field slave.
00:26:14The old better than the young.
00:26:16The female better than the male.
00:26:18And resentments would arise.
00:26:20But it really wasn't about hating one another.
00:26:23It was about hating ourselves.
00:26:26See, it don't matter what the world call Christ.
00:26:29In fact, let me help you.
00:26:30It don't matter what they call you.
00:26:33Huh?
00:26:34And you can't let other people's opinion determine your outlook on who you are.
00:26:43Something got a hold of me.
00:26:51Trouble in my way.
00:26:54Trouble in my way.
00:26:56I gotta cry sometime.
00:26:59I gotta cry sometime.
00:27:00Hey, so much trouble.
00:27:04Trouble in my way.
00:27:06God blesses food.
00:27:08Let it bless our bodies and will do it to our souls.
00:27:11In Jesus' name, amen.
00:27:12Amen.
00:27:13Good.
00:27:35Y'all get what I have prayed.
00:27:38Are you ready?
00:27:55Did y'all enjoy your tour?
00:27:56We did.
00:27:57Thank you so much for coming.
00:28:04As I said before, I grew up in a very small town.
00:28:08At the time that I met my husband, he was much older than me and was in the oil and
00:28:15gas business.
00:28:17When we married, we visited Natchez very, very often and was looking for a place.
00:28:22And one of the ladies from the garden club, a past president, invited me to join the pilgrimage
00:28:28garden club.
00:28:32So we bought the condo here in Natchez.
00:28:35It's 17 years we've been married and, you know, we're having some really hard times, but
00:28:43neither one of us have drawn a line in the sand.
00:28:52We'll see what happens.
00:29:08Franklin, Arnfield, and Ballard.
00:29:10They could buy a slave in Virginia for $600 and sell the slave in Mississippi for $2,000.
00:29:17They could almost triple their money.
00:29:19So the cheapest way and the most common way to get slaves in the Deep South was to make
00:29:23them walk.
00:29:24One million and one half million people walked 800 plus miles barefoot and in chains into
00:29:31the cotton fields and the sugarcane plantations at Deep South.
00:29:35And it's going to take nine weeks.
00:29:37The second largest domestic slave market in the history of America was right here in Natchez.
00:29:44And it was called the Forks of the Road.
00:29:49We're right in the middle of it now.
00:29:55And this is the market itself.
00:29:58So please, guys, do not allow the size of this place to betray the magnitude of what happened
00:30:04here.
00:30:05The total number is 750,000.
00:30:08That's three quarters of a million human beings, men and women, boys and girls who are bought
00:30:14and sold at this very site on their way to survive labor until they die.
00:30:20The slaves came here bound at five points, both ankles, both wrists and around their necks.
00:30:26And then a chain between us and one going back 50 people deep.
00:30:31The neck collars and ankle braces are riveted on by a blacksmith.
00:30:36By the time the slaves get to Natchez, this iron is seasoned with flesh and with blood.
00:30:42And people ask, you know, why would you harm a product you're trying to sell?
00:30:46Well, how do you control six to 10,000 people for 30 years?
00:30:49You control them with violence and fear.
00:30:53This is a park service site.
00:30:55They already started buying properties around it to make this the premier slave market museum
00:31:01in the country.
00:31:03They're trying to buy these businesses, but, you know, the people are going to try to hold
00:31:07out for more money.
00:31:10From this point here, every plot of land that you can see with your eyes, all of these are
00:31:15slave trading companies.
00:31:17Franklin, Arnfield and Valor Southern office where their rear muffler shop is across the
00:31:21street.
00:31:39The state park, they made some offers on our property and, uh, it was a joke.
00:31:50I have been working with the Forks of the Road for 18 years now.
00:31:57Land acquisition is a slow and complicated process.
00:32:00And so the challenge is always to find sellers who are willing and to have an appraised market
00:32:08value, which is what we can pay, that meets their expectations.
00:32:13Well, I mean, I've made a living here all my adult life.
00:32:17And you can't just up and move a business.
00:32:20You know, you've got to rebuild your business again.
00:32:22And at 64, I don't feel like rebuilding anything, you know?
00:32:28They're going here and trying to buy me out for this much money.
00:32:32And then they'll spend this much money redoing everything that's here.
00:32:39And I told the guys, I said, what I look like, some poor old dumb country guy with my bib
00:32:44overalls on and chew tobacco running down my lip, going, well, you all take that for
00:32:47it if you just give me that.
00:32:49And I'm going, no, I don't want that.
00:32:51It'll never happen.
00:32:55The National Park Service is in the forever business and every parcel has its own stories
00:33:01and its own complications.
00:33:04Across the road is where Franklin, Armfield and Ballard were located.
00:33:10And Franklin and Armfield were the largest slave traders in the United States.
00:33:15They became millionaires off of human trafficking.
00:33:19I don't know what that force of road is supposed to prove.
00:33:22I think it's just like everything else they said, they're promoting memory of something that was bad.
00:33:27It's over and done with.
00:33:28And I hate it.
00:33:30I wasn't here.
00:33:31None of us were here.
00:33:32No.
00:33:33Had I been here, I wouldn't have done it.
00:33:36Just have to keep reminding people of what happened 100 years ago.
00:33:41And if it's a bad, bad thought, don't remind them of it.
00:33:46If you're going to take down all the statues, take down all the statues.
00:33:49You're going to go build something there to promote what they're taking the statues down about.
00:33:53Why would they do that?
00:33:54That's kind of what my thoughts about it.
00:33:56I'm not trying to be a racist.
00:33:58I'm not trying to be anything like that.
00:34:00I'm just saying.
00:34:01I thought about maybe just to open up my own Forks of the Road over here.
00:34:06It'd be different than that.
00:34:12I hope I'm around when they finish the Forks of the Road project, when it's developed.
00:34:17Because man, that's going to be mind-boggling.
00:34:24That land literally has our blood in it.
00:34:27Literally.
00:34:29Literally has our blood in it.
00:34:32And if it were not for Sir Boxley, that story may still be lost to time.
00:34:41We're the enslaved ancestors here.
00:34:43And I asked the question, who is going to tell their story?
00:34:50And I said, I would.
00:34:53And from that time on, I'm waging a protracted struggle to bring the Forks of the Road from
00:35:01Forgotten to a National Park Service Park.
00:35:06From here on out, for as long as your generation, your generation, generation,
00:35:10exists, they're going to have to tell our story here.
00:35:15Boxley fought for that.
00:35:17He fought hard for that.
00:35:19And he has been working with politicians.
00:35:23He has worked with nonprofit groups tirelessly for more than 30 years
00:35:28to call attention to this forgotten site.
00:35:33However, Natchez City itself was an enslavement selling market.
00:35:39Up until the Franklin and Armfield people brought in enslaved persons with cholera.
00:35:44That led to banning the selling and enslaved African within the city limits.
00:35:52So there were enslaved persons sold all over the whole city.
00:35:58This is my spot, so to speak.
00:36:01And it's been a long time that I've sat here avenging the ancestors.
00:36:09I'm a Christian woman.
00:36:11And I see him as a biblical prophet because that's what the prophets did.
00:36:18They were all about pointing out to the status quo
00:36:23that they were not fulfilling their mission of justice.
00:36:32Okay, slaves came here bound at five points, both wrists, both ankles, and around their neck.
00:36:38Talking about the custom preacher?
00:36:41No, I haven't done. I know him. He's a good guy.
00:36:46He seems to be doing well with this.
00:36:49They would have come in columns of two.
00:36:51You can hear him hollering over here.
00:36:52A lot of folks come there to stand and listen to no rev story.
00:37:01So there's a common misconception that everybody white in the South had a slave.
00:37:05Only five percent of Southerners ever owned slaves.
00:37:09Now, everybody white in America benefited from the institution of slavery then and today.
00:37:15America's status is the richest nation on earth.
00:37:18The first big pot of money that existed on this continent or in America was cotton.
00:37:25And cotton can't exist without...
00:37:32So it is right, fair, true, just, equitable to say that America's wealth was built upon the backs of the
00:37:39enslaved.
00:37:49And my grandma, she paid cotton, not like as a slave, but it was like her job.
00:37:54When she was younger, it was like the old days, so she would like pay cotton on the cotton, like
00:38:00for money.
00:38:02And my great-grandma, she had like a brother, and her brother got killed because it was like, you know,
00:38:08like a really racist back then.
00:38:10And they thought he was talking to like this white lady, and they hung them.
00:38:13And they don't know where his body is at all.
00:38:17I know, she's crazy.
00:38:19My grandma's like, my grandma, well, hey, my grandma was like, y'all need to just, y'all should start
00:38:24working at two hours.
00:38:25I'm like growing up, I'm like a hundred years ago.
00:38:47I always loved Vandebellum Homes.
00:38:51Because as a matter of fact, my mother spent some time working in one of the antebellum homes.
00:38:57She worked there for more than 30 years.
00:39:00And I would go to work with her, and I thought, wow, you know, I'd like to own one of
00:39:06these one day.
00:39:08And then several years ago, we were driving around, and I saw the top of the columns here.
00:39:16You couldn't see anything else because it was just covered in vines.
00:39:20And we crept in, and I thought, oh, my God.
00:39:23And I called my husband right away.
00:39:25I said, oh, Gregory, you should see this place we could bless a bride.
00:39:30Plantation-style weddings were really big.
00:39:33And he says, we aren't blessing anybody.
00:39:35Get in the car and come home.
00:39:39You know, when we bought the place, I was so proud.
00:39:43And then I start to ask questions about the property.
00:39:48We find then that it is a slave dwelling.
00:39:52And then we find an inventory of 124 enslaved African-American men, women, and children.
00:39:59I didn't know what to do with that when I found that it was a slave dwelling.
00:40:03I didn't know how to handle that because I'd gotten a lot of pushback from my people.
00:40:10My grandfather, he was born in slavery.
00:40:14He didn't talk about it.
00:40:16And I'd ask him even, Papa, what was your dad's name?
00:40:21Totally embarrassed, the gentleman was.
00:40:22And he'd say, oh, Master Jones, gal, now get away from here.
00:40:29Here I was living in history.
00:40:33And so my emotions are all over the place.
00:40:38I was in tears.
00:40:39I was sitting there crying.
00:40:41I go to Walmart, and there's this colorful gentleman at Walmart.
00:40:46And he says, I heard what you were doing.
00:40:48It was Sir Boxley.
00:40:51And Boxley says to me, these buildings are worthy of preservation.
00:40:58Still, people don't understand it until they come.
00:41:27You know, and some people would be offended with this, but this just smells like home to me.
00:41:31I love it.
00:41:32I do.
00:41:33Me, too.
00:41:36Oh, wow.
00:41:42Welcome to the Tiger Den.
00:41:45It's homecoming.
00:41:48We're in the place.
00:41:50We've got to be changed.
00:41:57Five, four, three, two, one.
00:42:02Hey!
00:42:15It's a man of hell.
00:42:16Y'all means all.
00:42:18It's a fundraiser for mental health.
00:42:21The gay society puts it on.
00:42:24If the gay population left, that's just how we fold.
00:42:28Half the house is home of a gay guy.
00:42:32We're the only ones that got the money in the chains.
00:42:37They did a show at the auditorium.
00:42:40We donate the beat party on Friday, and I found this.
00:42:45So I've got a bed break full of drag queens.
00:42:48I want a version of you to take with me.
00:42:51If you have handles, I'll put you in the overhead vent, which is so cool.
00:43:03I will tell you what causes Calabites to kill themselves.
00:43:08And you ought to humble yourself instead of being proud of your perversion.
00:43:21I want to thank you all for supporting the LGBTQ plus community.
00:43:25We're here to have a good time.
00:43:27We're here to raise a lot of money for y'all means all Natchez.
00:43:30Ladies and gentlemen, Choctaw Hall is one of our sponsors this evening.
00:43:33First of all, you two kids, if you have not been to see this, oh my God, stand up.
00:43:39I don't know how long it takes you to run up that platform to get to him.
00:43:45That is a mountain worth climbing right there, I swear.
00:43:59I'm not going to tell you how things are, God.
00:44:02If you made me a man, then I'm a man.
00:44:05And if you made me a woman, I'm a woman.
00:44:15I love to receive.
00:44:17I love the beautiful poems, the beautiful dress, and I love pilgrimage.
00:44:25I do miss it, but I have gone through a recent divorce.
00:44:31We had a prenup.
00:44:33I'm at a financial point where I need to make a living.
00:44:37It wouldn't all fit on the truck.
00:44:39Everything that would go on the truck is there.
00:44:44But I have one more trip.
00:44:47I'm downsizing my life.
00:44:50You know, I don't have to have a lake house and a boat.
00:44:53And what I do have to have is peace.
00:45:12I'm going to sort through and keep the things that really are special to me.
00:45:17And then the things that are not, I'm just going to sell them at Cress.
00:45:23It's a consignment store.
00:45:26I'll just turn it into cash.
00:45:30Some days I do really well, some days not.
00:45:34But I'm going to be all right.
00:45:36Yeah.
00:45:45By the time the war starts, half of Natchez is already union.
00:45:48A little blue speck and a sea of red today.
00:45:51By 1862, the secessionists here have to make a choice.
00:45:54My Southern pride or my million dollar bank account.
00:45:57I'm going to give you five seconds to figure that one out.
00:45:59Ray Charles can see who's going to win the war.
00:46:02Stevie Wonder wouldn't wonder who's going to win the war.
00:46:05One more time in war, poor people die so rich people can stay rich.
00:46:101865, the Civil War ends.
00:46:12That ushers us into a period called Reconstruction.
00:46:14During Reconstruction, Natchez, I told you it was peculiar.
00:46:19Natchez get a black mayor, a black sheriff, a black tax assessor,
00:46:22a black tenancy clerk, a hiring rebels.
00:46:24First black man in the U.S. Senate, Natchez.
00:46:26John R. Lynch.
00:46:27First black man in the U.S. House of Representatives, Natchez.
00:46:30J.B. Banks.
00:46:30First black physician, Natchez.
00:46:33Schools, haberdasheries, grocery stores, apothecaries,
00:46:35Blacks in a shop, lawyers, banks and doctors.
00:46:37Natchez.
00:46:38Pump your brakes, Rev.
00:46:40Slow down.
00:46:42How you move from being a slave to having economic and political power
00:46:46in the richest city in the world?
00:46:48Now that does not happen anywhere else in the South like it does in Natchez.
00:46:51Upper mobility for newly freed slaves throughout the South is evident,
00:46:54but a mayor, a congressman, a sheriff?
00:46:57Hell no.
00:46:57Hell no, I say.
00:47:00I'm going to require a bit of brutal honesty from you for just a moment.
00:47:04Who do you think wants what's happening in Natchez to spread throughout the rest of the country?
00:47:10Nobody.
00:47:11Nobody.
00:47:11Nobody.
00:47:12If it happened today, who do you think would want it to spread?
00:47:15And I fear the answer would be the same.
00:47:19And so, in the aristocracy, they have to stop it.
00:47:32You come here and you get away from the current year.
00:47:36Current events.
00:47:37You go back.
00:47:38I feel like I have stepped out of the current mess and muddle,
00:47:43and I have gone back in this lovely way.
00:47:45To a lovely world.
00:47:47And I can pick and choose what I want to think about.
00:47:50That's right, and nowhere, nowhere in America is everything beautiful.
00:47:55But Natchez.
00:47:55It is here today, for sure.
00:47:57I mean, you think about the lives we've learned about here.
00:48:00Although they lived in amazing beauty,
00:48:02their lives were turned upside down by current events.
00:48:05We have the luxury of removing ourselves from our unsightly current events
00:48:10and going back and enjoying just the beauty of their time.
00:48:23The history that they learned and the history that they believe
00:48:28is now being yanked out from under them.
00:48:32That's how people experience it.
00:48:35This change that they feel is being forced on them.
00:48:41And it's hard work to come to a point where you're able to say,
00:48:45the history I learned was a mythological construct that was used to sell tickets.
00:49:02Welcome to the family dining room here at Magnolia Hall.
00:49:06There would have been 12 bells in the house,
00:49:08one for each room of the house.
00:49:10The bells are what?
00:49:11Oh, I'm sorry.
00:49:12To call servants.
00:49:12Call the servants.
00:49:13Yes, sorry about that.
00:49:14Yes, indeed.
00:49:21I think that sounds better than the Downton Abbey chime that they had.
00:49:25That's the tea closet.
00:49:26At the time, it would have been locked because, y'all,
00:49:29tea and sugar were so expensive during that time
00:49:33that you couldn't afford for even a little bit of it to get pilfered by the servants.
00:49:38So the lady of the house would have worn that key around her neck as I do today.
00:49:43Do you know what a punkah is?
00:49:45Some of the homes here have the punkah to shoo away the flies.
00:49:49These originated in India.
00:49:51So a servant would have stood in one side of the room and pulled on the rope.
00:49:55The punkah goes back and forth.
00:49:57It would, number one, cool the gas,
00:49:59but it was also to keep the flies and keep the air fanned.
00:50:04Ladies and gentlemen, this punkah fan, Mary McMurrin wrote this.
00:50:08And she says, you know when the slave is doing it right?
00:50:11When they don't blow the candles out.
00:50:14That's the trick.
00:50:15This was a job and his job title was called the punkah wallow.
00:50:20Punkah's fan, wallah's work, operate, punkah wallow.
00:50:24That was the name of the job.
00:50:25It was a child.
00:50:27How do we know it?
00:50:28She wrote it.
00:50:30Think about this.
00:50:32Why a child?
00:50:33Why a child?
00:50:34First of all, it's a slave.
00:50:35All right, it's a child.
00:50:38Small.
00:50:39Look at that corner.
00:50:40Inconspicuous.
00:50:41Out the way.
00:50:42Illiterate.
00:50:42Can't read or write.
00:50:44Not a person.
00:50:46Harmless.
00:50:48Newsflash.
00:50:49Ladies and gentlemen, I ain't never met a harmless child in my life.
00:50:52I don't care if he is a slave.
00:50:54He's a child.
00:50:56Children are intuitively inquisitive.
00:50:58We're loose at dinner.
00:51:00Things are coming out.
00:51:02This child can't read or write, but words have meanings that cause an action.
00:51:05I repeat, words have meanings that cause an action.
00:51:08That's how children learn.
00:51:09They're products of not only their environment, but the culture and their language of their environment.
00:51:12That's how they learn.
00:51:13This kid is no different.
00:51:15He's a slave, but he's no different.
00:51:18What do you think is going to happen when that kid goes back to the quarters at night?
00:51:22Man, this kid, man, y'all not going to believe what happened last night.
00:51:26Information is power.
00:51:28Information is power.
00:51:29Information is power.
00:51:30Information is power.
00:51:32Information is power.
00:51:34Especially to a race of people that can't read or write, and it's against the law to teach them.
00:51:39It's power.
00:51:41How do I know this?
00:51:42Why is this park ranger saying all this?
00:51:44Simple.
00:51:45Read John Roy Lynch.
00:51:47What was John Roy Lynch's job as a child, as a slave?
00:51:51What was John Roy Lynch's job?
00:51:53He was at a house called Dunleap on Homer Chitter.
00:51:56What did John Roy Lynch do?
00:51:58He was a punkawala.
00:52:00He operated the fan.
00:52:02What did John Lynch do?
00:52:03Freed himself from slavery.
00:52:04Joined the Union Army.
00:52:06What did John Lynch do?
00:52:07He became a postmaster general during the war in Natchez.
00:52:09What did John Lynch do?
00:52:11He became a United States congressman, legislator out of Reconstruction.
00:52:15What did John Lynch do?
00:52:16He later left Reconstruction, left politics, became an attorney, moved to Chicago, and practiced
00:52:21law for 38 years in Chicago.
00:52:22What was his job as a child?
00:52:26A punkawala.
00:52:28A slave punkawala.
00:52:30What?
00:52:46One of our goals is to try to raise the bar, to talk about slavery as a part of every
00:52:53tour.
00:52:54And I think that some of the other museum houses in town move in that direction.
00:53:01Well, you know, with mixed results.
00:53:05This painting of a black man.
00:53:07There's only three in the state of Mississippi.
00:53:09And, by the way, that white is, I think, a reflection on his lip, not necessarily his teeth.
00:53:19They should be out in a minute.
00:53:24I was very resistant to talking about enslavement because I had so few facts.
00:53:30But we've gotten braver over the years.
00:53:34All of us who are from the South and who come from families who were
00:53:39plantation owners in the 19th century have to deal with the issue of slavery, chattel slavery.
00:53:46It's obviously not a nice system.
00:53:52Lansdowne was my great-great-grandparents' house.
00:53:55He had a lot of plantations, owned a huge, horrible number of slaves.
00:54:00And, yeah, that's my history.
00:54:02That's part of my history, and I have to tell it as much as I hate it.
00:54:07And the other part of our story is about the African Americans who lived here
00:54:12at Greenleaf's with the family.
00:54:15Unfortunately, one of them, we know, was not happy because this is Matilda,
00:54:20who ran away in 1850, and this is an advertisement for her return.
00:54:26All right, this is what I ring when I want someone to bring me a Diet Coke.
00:54:34Welcome to the Summer Kitchen.
00:54:37This is an original dependency, as we say in Natchez, or outbuilding, of Gloucester.
00:54:44In National Geographic, 1949, check out this gorgeous picture.
00:54:50There is an actress portraying the shucking of all these vegetables right by the fire during
00:54:59pilgrimage one time.
00:55:01Isn't that lovely?
00:55:05Here I am with this slave dwelling.
00:55:08So I said, oh, you know, I'm going to invite the garden club ladies out here to see this house.
00:55:13And I did.
00:55:15Now, I love how Debbie has gone through because the unique history of this property here,
00:55:21I would say the majority of us that have these other homes don't really have
00:55:27that type of opportunity to focus on what she can focus on.
00:55:32But we have the responsibility of doing what we've got at our places as well.
00:55:37Anyway, you know, the thing I like about Debbie is the one thing we have in common is that we
00:55:43both
00:55:44seem to just have our own ideas and our own research, and then we just do whatever we want.
00:55:53I find that very fun about you.
00:55:59I am fun, fun, fun.
00:56:01I'm fun Debbie.
00:56:02That's just who I am.
00:56:04She went over to our house to visit it, but I didn't even get to meet her then.
00:56:08When you're telling a story about, say, a kitchen, a Black woman's kitchen,
00:56:15for me, you bring a Black person in to talk about kitchen, and you say to me,
00:56:21well, you come and you do it. I don't have time to tell the story for your kitchen,
00:56:28but I'm almost certain your guest would most probably be more receptive
00:56:40of a Black person, woman in that kitchen telling your story.
00:56:47That's all.
00:56:49We probably have two different kinds of people coming, some who just want to look at pretty
00:56:55things and some who want to learn more about it.
00:56:57I don't know. I bet they're different there now.
00:56:59I know who comes to my house now.
00:57:02Yeah, well, I know who comes here, and I know, you know what I'm saying.
00:57:06It might be an argument if I don't want to do that.
00:57:08Oh, no.
00:57:09Okay. No, what I want to say is that a lot of people come to Natchez and they see the
00:57:16pictures.
00:57:17They're not even oftentimes reading anything about it. They see that, that mansion. So they come here
00:57:25to find, oh, it's a slave quarter. I have people who stay with me who have no idea.
00:57:32Yeah, because it's, yes, because it's concealed by design.
00:57:36What's frustrating to me is reading the stories of the enslaved people, they're at least getting
00:57:42to learn some names. But we don't have, it frustrates me to know we don't know what they look like.
00:57:47We
00:57:47don't have a portrait of any of them. And it's the way it was. But I'm like, what do you
00:57:53do? Do you
00:57:54have a silhouette created? Is there something to, to symbolize someone without it? I'll never have
00:58:00something real. Or do you just honor the name or what little bit you know?
00:58:08I don't know how y'all feel about it, but I like how Helen Smith, I thought she said it
00:58:12well. She
00:58:13said, there's clearly examples of there being great affection, you know, between people in the home.
00:58:18But she says, affections will never be a substitute for freedom. And I thought that was a nice way to
00:58:23say it. But you at least like, I hope there's affection. It makes you feel a little, like, okay,
00:58:27they weren't. Gloucester was built in 1803. And the Emancipation Proclamation was in 1863. So it did
00:58:34have slavery for 60 years. But then from then on, from 1863 to 1920, when they built an indoor kitchen,
00:58:44finally, they had, you know, paid servants out there working in that very primitive kitchen. Some
00:58:53stayed on and just, you know, got paid, I'm sure. Okay. Surely not much, but got paid and stayed on
00:59:00with the family long after the war. We pay our housekeeper, she doesn't come for free.
00:59:05Mm-hmm. Okay.
00:59:09It was like a nightmare today. By the time you got here, I wanted to just burst into tears.
00:59:14I did. And I mean, because this, this shit is hard and you have to sit in here and listen
00:59:20at all
00:59:21that old care and stuff. Mm-hmm. So she bought a house and she doesn't know. That's it. She knows
00:59:27the history of her house, but she knows, and that is so it. Her, the lingo, it's not proper. The
00:59:33things
00:59:33she needs to, she needs some, she needs to go get some help with that because it's offensive. It truly
00:59:41is.
00:59:41And I was trying not to be so offended in my home as well as not to offend her. That
00:59:48woman made me so,
00:59:51I don't usually get that rabble. But that is so, that's it. Um, bless her heart. And I'm going to
00:59:58send
00:59:59her some candy, some cookies. Don't send her no candy and cookies. Send her a book. So she need to
01:00:04be educated.
01:00:05Oh.
01:00:11I don't know.
01:00:15I'm going to send her no candy.
01:00:19I'm going to send her a book.
01:00:19She's in this room.
01:00:26Perfect.
01:00:29Not the phone.
01:00:31I'm going to send you to my auntie.
01:00:34You're like, Pam. Pam.
01:00:35Pam. Pam.
01:00:36Pam.
01:01:20Take your time as you exit.
01:01:25The old aristocracy, they went from have to have not.
01:01:2975 years of absolute wealth and power ended in four years of war.
01:01:33At Melrose, they're planting tomatoes after the war to pay taxes.
01:01:37What do you think the first thing was on the aristocracy's mind?
01:01:40How do I get it back?
01:01:43By 1890, all 13 ex-federal states pass the Mississippi Plan, and it becomes a law of land in the
01:01:49South.
01:01:49These new constitutions in the South will forbid black representation on a state, federal, local level.
01:01:54Just like that, all those elected officials sit down.
01:01:57It's going to create voter suppression laws like literacy tests and poll taxes.
01:02:00There's no more black voting.
01:02:01White-only and cuddling-only bathrooms.
01:02:03Limited access to public facilities.
01:02:04A black man can't wear a white shirt on Sunday morning.
01:02:07If you were walking down the sidewalk and I approached you, I had to step into the street by my
01:02:11head and call you missed.
01:02:12If I looked in your eyes, constitutional law called that simple assault.
01:02:16You told I went to jail, hello, Karen.
01:02:19She born right here in Natchez.
01:02:21The most insidious thing it did was to rewrite criminal justice codes called black codes for black people.
01:02:26This will elevate misdemeanors to felonies and create inmate lease programs so that state prisons, county jails, and local jails
01:02:33can rent inmates to farmers.
01:02:34That set of laws had a name, and it was not the name of a human.
01:02:39It was the name of a minstrel act, where an actor put on blackface and pasted feathers on his arms,
01:02:45danced around as a buffoon, and it was called Jim Crow.
01:02:48Jim Crow.
01:02:49Jim Crow.
01:02:50So Jim Crow was not some spidey minister, support, or any social norm or custom.
01:02:55Jim Crow was constitutional law in the whole Deep South from 1890 to 1965.
01:03:0265.
01:03:04Yeah, I was born in 1964.
01:03:07It was not until LBJ signed the Voter Rights Act in 64 and Civil Rights Act in 65 that Jim
01:03:13Crow got wiped out the books.
01:03:14It was too late.
01:03:15It was a scar.
01:03:16It was a wound on the soul of America.
01:03:1975 years of government-sanctioned, institutionalized, systemic racism and white supremacy had done its dastardly deed.
01:03:27America is still segregated.
01:03:29There are black schools, white schools, black churches, white churches, black neighborhoods, white neighborhoods, to this very day in Natchez.
01:03:39Well, it's got to be on purpose.
01:03:40Well, but I, you know what I mean, like, I mean, are there, you know, new, new developments that actual,
01:03:47that white and black people are living?
01:03:51I mean, there are exceptions.
01:03:52There's no signs, no, there's no signs.
01:03:55But Jim Crow was ingrained into America's psyche, culture, heart, mind, and it's still there.
01:04:32Thank you all.
01:04:32It's just, it controls you, you don't control it.
01:04:39I don't shake that much.
01:04:42Every once in a while I do.
01:04:47See, if I stood up right now too quickly, I'd keep walking.
01:04:51My body would stop mentally.
01:04:53But that's when I fall so much.
01:04:56So I've got where I just creep around.
01:04:59I've been reluctant to use a cane.
01:05:01That'd make me look older than I am.
01:05:06My voice is just, it's just terrible.
01:05:10It's becoming an issue.
01:05:13For the doctors' sake, it's just overusage is what it is.
01:05:17But I don't, I don't know if I go along with that or not.
01:05:22There's no pain, just, just no voice.
01:05:26It's kind of strange and mysterious.
01:05:32If it gets any worse, I'll just quit talking.
01:05:36I'll just stop.
01:05:44Y'all got any questions, comments, anything?
01:05:47You ain't gonna get a whole lot of opportunities to talk to an articulate black man about this kind of
01:05:53stuff.
01:05:54So go ahead.
01:05:55How do you turn that around?
01:05:57Yeah.
01:05:57Oh, baby, if I knew, I'd be rich.
01:06:00Oh, I know that.
01:06:01But I mean, it starts with sitting down and talking, just like you said.
01:06:04It does.
01:06:06But then you have to focus more on, do you feel like, education?
01:06:10I always felt like education was the key.
01:06:13Was the key.
01:06:14Yeah, I think so.
01:06:15The whole family idea, women having numerous children and with no father.
01:06:20Yeah.
01:06:21You know, I mean, that.
01:06:21Well, they got fathers.
01:06:23Well, yeah, yeah, yeah.
01:06:24They all got, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
01:06:25You know, they're not in the home.
01:06:27They're absolutely right.
01:06:28Right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right.
01:06:30And that's designed.
01:06:31You see, if you want to kill a snake, do you cut the tail off of the head?
01:06:35Right, sure.
01:06:35You cut the head off.
01:06:36And so the cradle to the prison pipeline, the injection of drugs and poverty and the gentrification in communities and
01:06:47the redlining, all that stuff works just fine.
01:06:50I get thousands of people, I've done these tours in the last eight years or so, and I get this
01:06:56comment a bit repetitively where folks say, well, what black people need to do is this or this or this
01:07:03to solve this problem.
01:07:04But y'all understand that black people didn't create the problem.
01:07:08White people created the problem.
01:07:10And so if it's going to be solved, white folks are going to have to solve it.
01:07:13Plus, let me finish.
01:07:14Right.
01:07:15Let me finish.
01:07:17Black people don't have enough money or power to solve the problem.
01:07:20And so the inequities that exist in our culture will require something that I think is going to be difficult.
01:07:29And that's why folks are going to have to give up something.
01:07:32Yeah, yeah, yeah.
01:07:33Opportunity, wealth, all those things.
01:07:36And who wants to give up anything that they feel like they work for?
01:07:40You know what I'm saying?
01:07:41And so how you fix them, man, that's real tough.
01:07:49I welcome those conversations.
01:07:53And sometimes after the tours, I'm a little sad because I feel like we've made a connection and now it
01:07:59has to end.
01:08:01You got to analyze as you're talking to people.
01:08:04And it's almost an art what they're able to bear.
01:08:09You know, you get more from nonverbal cues than you do verbal cues.
01:08:12So, you know, I'm really in tune to them while I'm talking.
01:08:16That's how I know when to shut up.
01:08:19You ever pick cotton red?
01:08:21No, sir.
01:08:21I have.
01:08:22My grandmother did.
01:08:24Okay.
01:08:25I took you to the highest point on the bluff.
01:08:29This is the lowest point.
01:08:32Did you ever do Choctaw High?
01:08:34Yeah, we did it yesterday.
01:08:36Have you taken the truth?
01:08:38Oh, man, I've been in the house many, many times.
01:08:40Many times.
01:08:42I don't think David does the same thing with me there as he does without me.
01:08:47Because I've had people come back and say, you know, he made some blatantly racist comments.
01:08:54I always picture him as just trying to portray what a Southern aristocratic gentleman, how they would talk, as opposed
01:09:08to being him.
01:09:10I mean, he gay in America still.
01:09:12Y'all will get to know him a little bit more and maybe you can see if there's a real
01:09:15him or if that is the real him.
01:09:44And what's so interesting, it's cracked.
01:09:47And crazed, you still smell rose oil.
01:09:51Isn't that great?
01:09:53I feel like I'm doing communion.
01:09:56When I made a good priest, I love him.
01:10:00Have you been in Choctaw, too?
01:10:02Yes.
01:10:02Did you see David?
01:10:03Oh, yes.
01:10:04Very entertaining.
01:10:05Biggest characters you'll ever meet.
01:10:07He's a nice guy.
01:10:08Yeah, he is.
01:10:09And believe it or not, he took a bunch of stuff out.
01:10:11Yeah.
01:10:12He did, especially at Christmas.
01:10:13The Hoot Skirt Mafia made him take a loaf.
01:10:15That's right.
01:10:17They got on to him all the time about inappropriate words that he might use.
01:10:22And he didn't like that at all.
01:10:24So he was reprimanded numerous times over his tours.
01:10:28But everybody loves his tours.
01:10:29He just says it like it is.
01:10:31He's entertaining.
01:10:32Bye-bye.
01:10:44In recognition and appreciation for their many contributions to our city.
01:10:51Listen, don't start doing that.
01:10:53You're going to make me.
01:10:54We honor Deborah Cozy with his key to the city.
01:11:04Wow, I'm so overwhelmed.
01:11:06Natchez is a place of healing of the ugly past.
01:11:09And yes, I am the first African-American woman to be a member of the Pilgrimage Garden Club.
01:11:14And then when they're early, my friend here, he'll tell you, I do this for them.
01:11:20And then I break them down if they want to be ugly.
01:11:23Oh, freedom.
01:11:28Oh, freedom.
01:11:32Oh, freedom.
01:11:36Over me and before I'd be a slave.
01:11:40Said I'd be buried in my grave.
01:11:47And go home, home to my Lord, and I'd be free.
01:12:01I have really bad days sometimes.
01:12:05When I think I'm going to just be this little wimpy girl, woman, or whatever, and it's like,
01:12:10I'm tired and I can't do this anymore and I can't go.
01:12:12So I think of them, the enslaved people here, Flora Upshaw, Hester Williams, George, and Charity Martin.
01:12:28I give honor to them.
01:12:32I say their names.
01:12:34I ask for their guidance.
01:12:44You know, these were handmade.
01:12:52They made these bricks, you know?
01:13:12One day I was out here, as I am every morning, and a van drove up.
01:13:17I introduced myself, and as it turns out, I'm Tracy, he's Tracy.
01:13:22So we chatted for a little while, and, you know, I had wanted to do his tours since then.
01:13:28I love learning about all of the beautiful architecture that's here and the culture of our city.
01:13:35Well, y'all know my name is Tracy Collins, and I'm a local pastor here, and I'm a bit of
01:13:43a historic home.
01:13:49The fastest growing cash crop in the state is the southern pine.
01:13:52My very first job was in the Quoburids.
01:13:55Shut up.
01:13:56You ain't been in no woods, girl.
01:13:58You were Beverly Hills building.
01:14:00My dad loaded the truck, and then my mom drove the truck to the mill the next morning and unloaded
01:14:06it.
01:14:06I, I hauled wood for one day.
01:14:10The next day I went and got in college.
01:14:12Right.
01:14:13By the time slavery moves from the east to the south, the chains aren't on their arms anymore.
01:14:18The chains are on their minds.
01:14:24You been in Melrose?
01:14:26I have not.
01:14:32It's so sad that people can be so, you know, so cruel.
01:14:37He said some things that made me think about it a little differently than what I had before.
01:14:51And this is my mother, who died last year.
01:14:54This is why my mother wanted to go clean.
01:14:56I grew up all.
01:14:58See, in Arkansas, our townhouse is next door to the governor's mansion.
01:15:02Like, this is a townhouse outside of the country.
01:15:04Everybody had a townhouse.
01:15:06So we were all running buddies for years.
01:15:08You grew up next to the governor's mansion?
01:15:10Yeah.
01:15:10My house is pretty.
01:15:11When they redid the governor's mansion, they copied my stairway.
01:15:14Oh, God.
01:15:18You know, I just can't imagine the slaves.
01:15:21I mean, how do you walk 900 miles?
01:15:25I don't think I could have.
01:15:26I mean, I just feel sure I would have died.
01:15:29And no one would have cared.
01:15:31No.
01:15:32And I would have been glad of it.
01:15:33I mean, I would have rather died.
01:15:34I'm sure someone felt that way.
01:15:41Slaves couldn't read and write.
01:15:43So where did education come from?
01:15:46Well, some of them are the bastard children of the aristocracy.
01:15:51See, the rich white male planter get to have sex with whoever he wanted to.
01:15:55And these men are raping women like 55 going south.
01:15:58You understand?
01:15:59Your husband going to come tell you at 9 o'clock, baby, I'm going to check the chickens.
01:16:03He ain't going to check no chickens.
01:16:05He going down to the slag quarter.
01:16:07And he going to do that every night.
01:16:08And the only time he even come to your bed is to make an air.
01:16:11And the same women that he having sex with, raping, put it the way it is,
01:16:18they washing your clothes, cooking, cleaning, helping you put your clothes.
01:16:21She pouring your coffee in the morning.
01:16:23And he got that, I'm going to have sex with you tonight in his eyes.
01:16:27But he ain't looking at you.
01:16:29He's looking at her.
01:16:30And guess what you get to say about it?
01:16:33Nothing.
01:16:34You can't say a word.
01:16:36Now, do you think you can't say anything because you won't say anything or you can't say anything?
01:16:41What do you think?
01:16:41I mean, what do you think?
01:16:42If you're the wife?
01:16:43If you're the wife, why can't you say anything?
01:16:45You ain't going to be wrong, I promise you.
01:16:48Where would you go?
01:16:49Where would you live?
01:16:49Right.
01:16:50What would you do?
01:16:51And because they're supporting your lifestyle.
01:16:52Right.
01:16:57Jim Crow was constitutional law in the whole Deep South.
01:17:02Now, get this.
01:17:03From 1890 to 1965, I was born in 1964.
01:17:10We same age.
01:17:12Same name, same age.
01:17:13You my sister, man.
01:17:14You my sister.
01:17:15Yeah, you got to come to church for a minute.
01:17:18That was a drastic turn.
01:17:23I'm hip, right?
01:17:26Hey, Doc!
01:17:27Hey, that's not going to work, man.
01:17:29Oh, man.
01:17:30And you the worst doggone muffler man in Mississippi.
01:17:34Get a job!
01:17:36Asshole.
01:17:39What did, what did Dean say?
01:17:42The muffler guy, oh, that black boy's lying.
01:17:48One of his little friends was over there.
01:17:51And every time, it's three or more of them together.
01:17:58Their ignorance just boils over.
01:18:01I get them straight in the morning, though.
01:18:10The first note I got at my grandmother died was from handwritten, three pages from Bill Clinton.
01:18:17Because, I mean, he was so kind, so down there.
01:18:20He definitely built.
01:18:21Now, Hillary and I kind of got into it several years ago.
01:18:24They took Confederate Boulevard, and she voted to have it changed to some black man's name.
01:18:30And I flew all over.
01:18:31I said, let me tell you, you're a brilliant woman, but you're going to go downhill getting involved in this
01:18:36black situation.
01:18:37And I said, you can just mark me off your little list of friends if you start licking up to
01:18:42the black.
01:18:43And that's exactly what she did.
01:18:45And one of them, Bill told me later, he said, you can tell her that.
01:18:50Get away with it.
01:18:52And I thought, well, it's the truth.
01:18:54And so she ruined herself.
01:18:57That's why she didn't get elected.
01:18:59It was two minutes of Negroism.
01:19:01If there's another monument built in Natchez, if I have to pay for it, it'll be to the white people.
01:19:07There's still white people left in this world.
01:19:09Who died and made all the black people queen for a day?
01:19:12I don't know.
01:19:13But, I mean, it's just disgusting.
01:19:16There's been people that have been persecuted much more than the blacks have.
01:19:20And whatever, if they had to pile them on a ship and send them back to Africa, they'd have another
01:19:26thought coming.
01:19:26They'd get over there and climb a coconut tree and make a living.
01:19:30So, whatever.
01:19:31So, I think it's just absolutely pitiful.
01:19:33Equality, which brings them everything on a silver tray.
01:19:36I mean, our taxpayers' money.
01:19:38I mean, I'm tired of taking care of somebody who won't take care of themselves.
01:19:44And I'm not saying there's not some good ones.
01:19:46There are, but they're outnumbered by the bad ones.
01:19:49It's disgusting.
01:19:51It's just black, black, black.
01:19:55I love to wear black.
01:19:59Men look so good with gray hair and black tie.
01:20:05I love to remute black.
01:20:07I love the double.
01:20:18I love them.
01:20:48ORCHESTRA PLAYS
01:20:58So if you buy yourself a blackboard, make sure the shoes are pointed.
01:21:02I don't want you to get ripped off, because I don't want you to go out and buy you a
01:21:05little
01:21:05nigger for your house, and let me not be a little car.
01:21:11You'll remember that, won't you?
01:21:19Do you have an elevator here?
01:21:20No elevator.
01:21:21Somebody said, what in hell, how are you going to get upstairs?
01:21:24I said, I'll get a couple of nigger boys to carry me.
01:21:27And then one lady said, if anyone will, you will.
01:21:31They also had that money to buy slave labor.
01:21:34That's part of history.
01:21:36We need to embrace history, learn from it, profit from it, and continue on.
01:21:53What do you think?
01:21:54I love you.
01:21:54You don't have to pay attention.
01:21:58I love you.
01:22:01I love you.
01:22:06You're a friend.
01:22:06I love you.
01:22:07I love you.
01:22:15Oh, Lord, I stretch my hand to Thee, and all we have, I know, if I withdraw Thyself
01:22:37from me, where shall I go, Jesus, my God, I know His name, the only help I know, if
01:23:05I withdraw Thyself from me, where shall I go, Jesus, my youngest son?
01:23:34This is, yeah, Bobby.
01:23:36Mr. Lewis, is he talking about?
01:23:38Yeah.
01:23:41He's the director of interpretation.
01:23:51Melrose here today commemorates over 700 slaves that John McMurrin owned over a 33-year period,
01:24:00paying homage to the enslaved people that were considered less than human, but yet built
01:24:08a country.
01:24:11This is the history of Americans.
01:24:15Are we really not going to tell that story?
01:24:24My barber says this place is never going to change.
01:24:34When I believe that, then I'll sell everything and move.
01:24:41This is how.
01:24:44This is how.
01:24:44This is how.
01:24:44This is how.
01:24:53This is how.
01:24:53This is how.
01:24:59This is how.
01:24:59This is how.
01:25:00This is how.
01:25:01This is how.
01:25:01This is how.
01:25:04This is how.
01:25:06This is how.
01:25:12This is how.
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