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Late Night with Seth Meyers - Season 13 - Episode 13: Rose Byrne, Sean Casey, Mark DeRosa, Caleb Hearon
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00:05From 30 Rockin' Feather Plaza in New York, it's Late Night with Seth Meyers.
00:12Tonight, Chris Hayes.
00:15Comedian Bob the Dragweed.
00:18Good all new, closer look.
00:24And now, Seth Meyers.
00:28Good evening, everybody. I'm Seth Meyers. We hope you're doing well.
00:31And now, if you don't mind, we're going to get to the news.
00:34President Trump accused Minnesota Governor Tim Walz and Minneapolis Mayor Jacob Fry yesterday of, quote,
00:40inciting insurrection, which means they could each be facing up to four years as president.
00:48President Trump suggested in an interview yesterday with The Wall Street Journal he would withdraw
00:53ICE agents from Minneapolis, quote,
00:56At some point, Mr. Precision strikes again.
01:00Some point, like Friday, or some point, like when the sun swallows the earth.
01:06Or is it even later, like when the Epstein files are released?
01:12President Trump
01:15hosted a screening over the weekend at the White House of First Lady Melania Trump's new documentary, Melania,
01:20and it's already getting some award buzz for least animated feature.
01:27That's right.
01:28President Trump hosted a screening of first lady Melania Trump's new documentary, Melania.
01:32Man, they are really testing his ability to stay awake.
01:36Sir, would you like to sit in the dark and watch a movie about your wife?
01:40Sir?
01:40He's already out.
01:43The federal government is set to run out of money on January 30th.
01:47Good.
01:49When asked last week about the bruising on his hand,
01:52President Trump told reporters that he, quote,
01:54Are you sure it wasn't a table saw?
01:59That hand doesn't look bruised.
02:01It looks like it's rejecting your wrist.
02:05Dear Mayor,
02:07Zoran Mamdani announced in a post on social media over the weekend
02:09that the city's public schools will have a remote learning day
02:12rather than a traditional snow day,
02:14decimating his poll numbers among likely voters ages 5 to 12.
02:20President Trump yesterday repeated his criticism
02:23of a new NFL kickoff rule aimed at reducing player injuries
02:27and said, quote,
02:28Who has the right to make such a change?
02:31Um, the NFL.
02:33Did you think Moses came down from the mountain with Ten Commandments
02:37and the rules for American football?
02:40In a new interview,
02:41President Trump announced that he will not attend
02:43this year's Super Bowl in San Francisco
02:45because it's, quote,
02:46Too far away.
02:51San Francisco is too far away?
02:54That's your excuse?
02:55The same one I used when my wife asked why
02:57I didn't get bagels from the good deli?
03:02According to a new study,
03:03women find men with large penises to be more attractive,
03:07though most women will tell you it's more important
03:09to have a penis that makes her laugh.
03:16Why is this guy get to be the picture?
03:20What's going on down here?
03:25Oh, okay.
03:27Take it.
03:28Oh, I have an apology.
03:34That's right.
03:35A new study shows that women find...
03:36Well, I mean, we could have used...
03:38Like...
03:40I mean, I'm just saying...
03:41We have...
03:42We have pictures of me.
03:46A new study shows that women find men with larger penises
03:50to be more attractive.
03:51Okay, well, it's 13 degrees outside, so good luck.
03:55Best of luck to you.
03:59And finally, the thrift store chain Goodwill this week
04:02reported record sales last year of more than $7 billion,
04:05all because of this year's hottest accessory,
04:08a coffee mug from someone else's family reunion.
04:12And that was a monologue, everybody!
04:16Everything has begun, I'm happy to report,
04:19and we got a great show for you tonight.
04:20He is the host of All In with Chris Hayes.
04:24It airs weeknights on MSNOW.
04:26He's also host the podcast Why Is This Happening?
04:29His number one New York Times best-selling book,
04:32The Siren's Call, How Attention Became
04:34the World's Most Endangered Resource,
04:36is available now on paperback.
04:37Our very good friend Chris Hayes is on the show.
04:40One of our most frequent guests, old Chris Hayes.
04:44And he is a multi-talented comedian, actor,
04:47and best-selling author you know from The Traitors
04:49and RuPaul's Drag Race.
04:51Tomorrow, he makes his Broadway debut
04:53in Moulin Rouge! The Musical
04:55at the Alfa Hirschfeld Theater
04:56right here in New York City.
04:57You guys, Bob the Drag Queen!
05:00Will also be joining us!
05:02So excited to have Bob out here.
05:05But before we get to all that,
05:07amid the intense national backlash
05:09over yet another deadly shooting
05:11by federal agents in Minneapolis,
05:12new polling suggests that Americans
05:14are deeply unhappy with ISIS tactics.
05:16For more on this, it's time for A Closer Look.
05:23Depending on where you're watching this,
05:24there's a good chance you're snowed in right now.
05:26And I have to say, it's actually really beautiful
05:28here in New York.
05:29The skyline, gently powdered in soft white snow.
05:31The steady hum of the snowplows
05:32against the eerie quiet of a peaceful city.
05:35And, damn it, it's already all piss now.
05:38Last night, it was a winter wonderland,
05:40and now it's already slush and garbage and piss.
05:45But at least it'll all be frozen
05:46into some kind of trash glacier
05:48until April or early May.
05:51Greatest city in the world.
05:53There is no amount of snow
05:55that can fall in this city
05:56that stays pristine for longer than 10 minutes.
05:58By the time you get a camera out
06:00to capture the beauty,
06:01there's already five rats on a toboggan.
06:06This morning, I stepped in a snowdrift so deep,
06:08the mayor had to come pull me out.
06:10That guy's everywhere,
06:11giving interviews outside in the storm,
06:13doing shift changes with the snowplows,
06:15personally digging cars out of the snow.
06:17As a New Yorker, I have to say,
06:18it's just weird to have a mayor
06:20who seems to actually like the job.
06:22I mean, usually the heavy winds...
06:27Usually the heavy winds
06:28that accompany a winter storm in New York
06:30come from our mayor's sighing at a press conference.
06:33Oh!
06:35Turns out it's bad.
06:37So we're finding out competent, energetic leaders
06:40can actually restore faith in the government.
06:42But if you're not in New York City, don't worry.
06:44The Trump administration is also laser-focused
06:47on the nitty-gritty of storm management
06:49and emergency response.
06:51I've learned that Homeland Security officials
06:53have come to FEMA staff
06:54and told them to limit the use of the word ICE
06:58in their public messaging
07:00and post social media posts
07:02when talking about the storm.
07:04The concern is obviously the connection
07:06between the immigration enforcement
07:09that's happening across the country,
07:11particularly in Minnesota,
07:13and what they are worried about here
07:15is that by posting something like
07:17watch out for the ice,
07:18that it's going to become an opportunity
07:20for a meme, for internet fodder,
07:22for a public ridicule
07:24against the Department of Homeland Security.
07:25So they're asking FEMA staff,
07:27if you can, don't use the word ICE,
07:29try to use the term freezing rain.
07:31Yeah.
07:33I mean, freezing rain is great,
07:34but what do you call it
07:35when it's no longer in the air?
07:38Is FEMA going to start posting signs
07:40that say watch out for solid cold ground rain?
07:44Also, frozen water has dibs on the word ICE.
07:49These guys should have to change their name,
07:51call them what they are,
07:52someone's loser uncle salivating over handguns.
07:55Oh, wait, never mind.
07:57That's slush.
07:57That won't.
07:59That's also going to be a problem.
08:01Got to be something, though.
08:03What other words are they going to ban?
08:05Are we going to have to start calling them lawn elves
08:07because everyone hates Christy Gnome?
08:11In that case, I bet it's the gnomes themselves
08:13who want to distance themselves from her.
08:15They're so embarrassed by the association,
08:17they've started pulling their gnome hats down over their eyes.
08:20Just think about it.
08:21ICE is so unpopular,
08:23they want FEMA to not use the word ICE.
08:27And not only is ICE terrible,
08:29they're terrible on ICE.
08:31My feet hit it!
08:33Oh!
08:36Buddy, did you forget to check for ground rain?
08:43We've shown that clip before,
08:44and we will show it again,
08:45but don't worry.
08:46Going forward,
08:46we will be compliant
08:47with the Department of Homeland Security.
08:49We've edited the clip
08:50to avoid any appearance of freezing rain.
08:55I think that's better.
08:57And it's not just memes and public ridicule
08:59that ICE is afraid of.
09:00They're also very mad
09:01about what they claim
09:02are armies of paid agitators
09:04infiltrating Minnesota
09:05and using their vast financial resources
09:08and underground networks to do pranks.
09:11An SUV was just caught dumping water
09:13around a federal building
09:14to ice the roads,
09:15so agents and their cars slip and crash.
09:18We've seen the so-called
09:19mostly peaceful agitators
09:21dumping water,
09:22so that it freezes,
09:23so that ICE agents fall down.
09:24What other acts of violence
09:26have they been committing
09:27against these agents?
09:29Well, Sean,
09:29your viewers can see
09:30that that car was driving,
09:33pouring cold water on the ground
09:35so that it would freeze the ground
09:37in front of our federal
09:38law enforcement vehicles.
09:40Well, she's obviously very passionate.
09:46Oh, my God,
09:47they poured water on the ground
09:49so that it would freeze.
09:51They must have learned that
09:52from the terrorist mastermind
09:53known as Kevin McAllister.
09:57What's next?
09:57Minnesotans are posting pictures
09:59of frozen plates of spaghetti
10:01to make ICE agents think
10:02the state is haunted by Italian ghosts.
10:06And if pouring water on the ground
10:08wasn't bad enough,
10:09the Trump administration also has evidence
10:10that these agitators are deploying
10:12the most hurtful weapon of all,
10:14the bird.
10:15The crowd here out inside
10:16of the federal building
10:17has been growing all afternoon.
10:19A few hundred people out there,
10:20they scream and shout
10:22and give the finger to agents
10:24when they come in or out.
10:25The crowd of a couple hundred
10:26and a real range of different types
10:28of people in that crowd,
10:29you can see them giving the finger
10:31and swearing at federal agents.
10:33If you look at some of the images
10:34out of Minneapolis last night,
10:36look at this vehicle,
10:37look at what it says.
10:38It says F ICE.
10:39You have these individuals
10:40who are putting their middle finger,
10:43proudly so, at the camera.
10:45Well, of course proudly.
10:46I mean, the only way to give
10:47the middle finger is proudly.
10:48If you're giving a timid bird,
10:51what's the point?
10:52Hey, that guy cut me off!
11:02Seriously, though,
11:03what kind of ass would flip somebody off
11:05while they're at work?
11:06Oh, right, that kind.
11:07But it gets worse.
11:09It gets worse, you guys,
11:11because the paid agitators
11:12flipping off ICE agents
11:14have even managed to infiltrate
11:16government agencies
11:17like the post office.
11:19Oh, holy !
11:26Do you know how much you have to suck
11:28for a postal worker
11:29to curse you out?
11:30I mean, usually the people cursing
11:32are the ones waiting in line
11:33at the post office.
11:35It's like getting up to the window
11:36and saying,
11:37I have a package for you,
11:37and the postal worker's saying,
11:38Oh, yeah, well,
11:39I got a package for you.
11:40It's right.
11:45What did you say your name was again?
11:46Yeah.
11:47Here it is.
11:50It's so unfair.
11:51These poor ICE agents
11:53can't even take a snack break
11:54at a gas station.
11:56You can tell by looking at them.
11:57Getting snacks at the gas station
11:58is like their favorite thing.
11:59Not only are they not cooperating
12:01with law enforcement
12:02on the ground there,
12:03they're also banning them
12:05from public areas.
12:07They can't even go in many places
12:09to use the restroom
12:10or get a cup of coffee
12:11or buy a lunch.
12:12In fact, a lot of those ICE agents
12:15and Border Patrol agents
12:16were run out of gas stations, Sandra,
12:19this past week.
12:20They were just trying to stop
12:21and use the bathroom
12:21and get a snack.
12:23We were set up on rioters
12:24who tried to stop us
12:26at every point yesterday.
12:29Simply using the restroom
12:31at a gas station
12:32was met with significant resistance.
12:36A lot of people
12:36would call that stalking.
12:39A lot of people
12:40would call that stalking.
12:41Most wouldn't.
12:43I think when someone says,
12:45I have a stalker,
12:45you don't immediately think,
12:46so where do you take
12:47if not the gas station?
12:51While the Trump administration
12:52complains about middle fingers
12:54and frozen water,
12:55Minnesotans are bravely
12:56showing up in the streets
12:57to make their voices heard.
12:58And it's worth comparing
12:59the behavior
13:00of the peaceful protesters
13:02we've seen in Minneapolis
13:03and across the country
13:04to the behavior
13:04of federal agents.
13:05A massive protest
13:06against President Trump's
13:07immigration crackdown
13:08in Minnesota.
13:09Tens of thousands
13:10in the streets
13:11at this hour.
13:12Hundreds of businesses
13:13shutting down
13:13in protest over ICE.
13:15Businesses and schools closing
13:17as more than 20,000 people
13:19brave the brutal cold
13:20to fill downtown.
13:21The largest march
13:22since protests began.
13:24It's negative 40 degrees
13:25with the wind chill
13:26out here right now
13:27and yet still
13:27protesters out and about
13:29with a message.
13:30ICE OUT.
13:31Somehow 50,000
13:34peaceful protesters
13:35in 10 below weather,
13:36I was there
13:37with them marching
13:39when they were able
13:40to march
13:41without any problems.
13:43And then the next day,
13:45a half a dozen
13:46ICE and border control
13:47agents
13:48couldn't handle
13:49a guy with a cell phone
13:51taking video of them.
13:53Do you know how hard
13:54it is to hold a march
13:55with 50,000 people
13:56in 10 below weather
13:57without a major incident?
13:58I was outside
13:59with my kids
13:59for five minutes yesterday
14:01and there were like
14:0211 incidents.
14:03One of them couldn't
14:04get their gloves on,
14:05another one snot,
14:06froze his nostrils closed.
14:07I was so cold,
14:08I ran back inside
14:09and my wife asked
14:10where our third kid was
14:11and I said,
14:11they fell in a snowdrift,
14:12they're not coming back!
14:15Thankfully,
14:15the mayor dug her out.
14:17The barbarism and cruelty
14:19we've seen on display
14:20from our own government
14:21has been heartbreaking
14:22and infuriating,
14:23but the response
14:23from the American people
14:24has been heartening
14:25because they are overwhelmingly
14:27on the side
14:28of Minnesotans.
14:29ICE, DHS,
14:31Kristi Noem
14:31have been a political disaster
14:33because just take a look here.
14:35I mean,
14:35ICE's net approval rating
14:36during Trump's terms,
14:37you go back to term number one,
14:39look, it was pretty even
14:40at zero points.
14:41You go to June 2025, right?
14:43That was when all that stuff
14:45was going on in Los Angeles.
14:46They dropped down,
14:47look at this,
14:48minus 17 points
14:49way in the basement,
14:50but then after Minneapolis,
14:52it's even lower,
14:53minus 27 points
14:55on the net approval rating
14:57of ICE.
14:58Of course,
14:59this all being done
15:00under Kristi Noem.
15:01So, no,
15:02what's going on in Minneapolis
15:03is not popular at all.
15:05This has been an absolute
15:06political disaster
15:07for the president
15:07of the United States.
15:08ICE's approval rating
15:09is negative 27 points.
15:11They are colder
15:11than actual ICE.
15:12I'm sorry.
15:13They are colder
15:13than freezing rain
15:15that has come earthbound
15:16and then formed
15:17into a slippy substance
15:18on the ground.
15:18That actually does
15:19roll off the tongue.
15:20That's actually better.
15:21Look, the whiny complaints
15:23about middle fingers
15:24and frozen water
15:25are actually very revealing
15:26because they show
15:26what this is really all about.
15:28A lawless federal agency
15:30expects complete
15:31and total subservience
15:32while they carry out
15:32their cruel
15:33and unpopular agenda.
15:34But the reality is
15:35Americans are overwhelmingly
15:36against this.
15:37Trump is having
15:37about as much success
15:38with ICE
15:39as this guy did.
15:40Make me for the ICE!
15:45This has been
15:46A Closer Look.
15:50We'll be right back
15:51with Chris Haynes, everybody.
15:58For more
15:59Obsessed Closer Looks,
16:00be sure to subscribe
16:00to Late Night
16:01on YouTube.
16:10Our first guest tonight
16:12is the Emmy-winning host
16:13of All In with Chris Hayes,
16:14which airs weeknights
16:15on MS Now.
16:16He also hosts the podcast
16:17Why Is This Happening?
16:19His number one
16:20New York Times best-selling book
16:21The Siren's Call,
16:22How Attention Became
16:24the World's Most Endangered
16:25Resources.
16:26I'm now in paperback.
16:27Please welcome back
16:27to the show
16:27our friend Chris Hayes,
16:29everybody.
16:41Hello!
16:42How are you, Brad?
16:42It's great to be back
16:43in 30 Rock.
16:44It's nice to have you
16:45in 30 Rock.
16:45How was the day
16:46with the kids?
16:47Because it was not
16:47a snow day, snow day.
16:49No, we got to get to do
16:50a little Zoom schooling,
16:52which is fun.
16:53Nice old throwback.
16:54And a little, uh,
16:55nice little PTSD
16:56for the kiddos.
16:57Yeah.
16:58How did, uh, how did,
17:00I mean, I would imagine
17:00harder for the teachers
17:02than the kids.
17:02Yes.
17:03You know, the biggest
17:04problem is just, like,
17:06it was just instantly
17:07re-traumatizing,
17:08because I remember
17:08doing this exactly
17:11five, six years ago.
17:12You're just constantly
17:13wrestling with, like,
17:14logins and two-factor
17:15authentication,
17:16and why did I get
17:17locked out?
17:17And at some level,
17:19it's good, because
17:19an 11-year-old should
17:20understand, this is a lot
17:22of your life going forward.
17:23Yeah.
17:24Totally.
17:25The lesson is this.
17:27I can't, the amount
17:28that there is, like,
17:29and again, I understand,
17:30like, schools have to
17:31put security first, right?
17:33The amount, it's so hard
17:34to log into things
17:35at my kid's school,
17:36and I'm like,
17:37nobody wants to be here.
17:39Like, why are you
17:40making it so hard to be
17:41here?
17:41Nobody wants to get in
17:43here.
17:43It's unbelievable.
17:44I mean, again, I get it
17:45from, like, their
17:46perspective, but yes,
17:47but we got through it,
17:48and then we also, we got
17:50some sledding in.
17:51Oh, nice to do.
17:52Some playing in the park,
17:53so that was pretty
17:54special.
17:54All right, so well done.
17:55Now, there is sometimes,
17:57you know, with the news
17:58the way it is,
17:59obviously, it's very
17:59depressing to cover,
18:00and sometimes it's
18:01actually, like, nice to
18:02talk about things like
18:03storms.
18:04You had to, back in the
18:05day, do a little bit of
18:06snowfall coverage as a
18:08reporter.
18:08Well, I was actually
18:10telling my kids this
18:10story because I think it
18:11was in 2014 or 2015.
18:13I just started the show,
18:14and if you'll recall back
18:15then, the interest in
18:17political news was low.
18:19Yeah.
18:19It was, people were,
18:20like, kind of checked out.
18:21It was not like it's been
18:22recently.
18:22Yeah, there would be full
18:23days where we just
18:24wouldn't do a show,
18:25nobody noticed.
18:27Unfortunately, same for me.
18:30And so, there was a big
18:32storm that was going to
18:33hit the East Coast, and,
18:34you know, producers like
18:35to produce.
18:36Yeah.
18:36Phil Griffin, the former
18:37president of MSNBC, he was
18:38a producer first, came up
18:40with this idea that I was
18:41going to drive around in the
18:42snowstorm for the full hour
18:44of my show.
18:44Gotcha.
18:45in an SUV.
18:46Right.
18:47Which I was like, I don't
18:48really want to do that.
18:49Well, okay.
18:50And then, we got it, we
18:52rigged up the car, we did it,
18:53and, like, no snow came.
18:55No.
18:56So that was an hour of me
18:58just driving around in an
19:00SUV.
19:00So it was just, like,
19:01carpool karaoke with no
19:03songs.
19:03With no songs.
19:04Yeah.
19:04And also, like, not a
19:06particularly, like, charismatic
19:08entertainer.
19:09Yeah.
19:09So, not to shift to
19:11something that is far more
19:13depressing, but I do want to
19:15get your take on the tragic
19:17events in Minneapolis this
19:20weekend.
19:21I mean, I don't have any
19:23insights or novel observations
19:26other than it's horrific.
19:29And I think that there is a
19:31profound moral revulsion that
19:33has begun to kind of ripple
19:35through society outward and
19:37outward in these sort of
19:37circles that emanate from
19:40what we've seen in
19:41Minneapolis, both of
19:42Rene Goode and with Mr.
19:43Freddie's death.
19:44And I think that we're in a
19:46situation right now where
19:49people who are not, who've
19:50not been checked in, are
19:52waking up to the kind of
19:54abject moral depravity that
19:58is what this administration is
20:00at this moment.
20:01And I also think that, like,
20:03the courage and testimony and
20:06witness and organization of
20:07the people of Minneapolis is
20:09astoundingly inspiring.
20:11Yeah.
20:12You know, it's also, you know,
20:18I can't speak to how lucky we
20:20are that they're all, and
20:22obviously we've seen what an
20:23incredible risk it is even to
20:24hold up a camera to ICE
20:26officials, right, with Alex
20:27Freddie.
20:28But without these cameras, like,
20:30the narrative would be totally
20:31run by this administration that we
20:34know will actually get out ahead
20:37of the video and tell a story
20:38that is patently, provably
20:40false.
20:41I mean, it is so, it's almost, I
20:43think the only adjective to
20:44describe the way that they have
20:46approached this is sociopathic.
20:49For, for, for Christina, for
20:50Stephen Miller to say this man was a
20:52would-be assassin who wanted to
20:54massacre federal officials.
20:56Yeah.
20:57And to tell all of us that we,
20:59that's obviously not true.
21:00And it's not obviously not true
21:01because you're a liberal or it's
21:03obviously not true because you
21:04don't like Donald Trump.
21:05It's just obviously not true.
21:07Anyone with eyes to see.
21:08And I think, you know, part of
21:09what I've been thinking about in
21:11the, and this is such a horrible
21:13tragedy.
21:13I mean, there's been, you know,
21:14there's been three homicides,
21:16three basically shooting deaths in
21:17Minneapolis all year.
21:19One of them was a crime,
21:20traditional, and two of them are
21:22by ICE agents.
21:23Yeah.
21:24Okay.
21:25Part of what I think is getting to
21:28people here is that they think
21:31they can control reality.
21:33And in the end, it's almost this
21:35sort of elemental battle that you
21:37see time and time again with sort
21:39of would-be authoritarian regimes
21:41about whether reality can emerge
21:44triumphant over this kind of
21:46regime of lies.
21:48And it took tremendous courage for
21:50the people that have recorded.
21:52I mean, that's what, you know,
21:53Alex Preddy was doing when he was
21:55murdered.
21:55Yep.
21:56And I say that advisedly.
21:58And it's what the woman in the
21:59pink coat was doing.
22:00It's what Renee Good's wife did.
22:03And it's taken incredible courage
22:05for people to do this, but it's so
22:07vital that we have that
22:08documentation.
22:09It seems as though, certainly
22:11today, there's a bit of Trump
22:14maybe doing his classic thing of
22:16backing off a little bit.
22:17There's talk that maybe Bovino is
22:19going to leave Minneapolis.
22:20Tom Homan's going to come in.
22:21That they might actually sense the
22:24way the wind is blowing on this,
22:25which is, it is deeply unpopular.
22:28And they are not, at least at this
22:30point, capable of bending this
22:32reality in the way that maybe they
22:33have with other issues in the past.
22:35Do you feel like they're stepping
22:36back from the precipice of this a
22:38little?
22:38They are.
22:38Here's what I feel.
22:39They are unambiguously losing.
22:41Right.
22:42They are losing.
22:42And part of the tradition of nonviolent
22:46civil resistance and disobedience from
22:49Gandhi through King through what we've
22:51seen on the streets of Minneapolis is
22:53that in fearlessly, in a fearless and
22:56disciplined fashion, refusing to give an
23:00inch to the regime, you expose its
23:04malevolence.
23:05And that's what happened on the Edmund
23:07Pettus Bridge when the cops started beating
23:10up the protesters.
23:11It's what we've seen in Minneapolis.
23:13And the hope for that kind of disciplined
23:15resistance is that it wakes people up to the
23:18moral truth that's at the core of the
23:20relationship between the forces of oppression
23:23and the people being oppressed.
23:25And we are seeing one of those moments right
23:27now.
23:28It has cost two people their lives and other
23:31people not going to school and other people
23:33being tear gas and other people being thrown
23:36into detention.
23:38But this has been a tremendous political and
23:41moral victory, even if nothing happens up
23:44until this point, at the horrible, tragic cost
23:46of these two lives.
23:47And they are absolutely getting their butts
23:49kicked.
23:50They're not going to just throw in the towel
23:52and admit it.
23:52But I think they are now looking for the exits
23:55in a real way.
23:56We have seen, you know, again, you talk about
23:58how inspirational these people in the streets
24:03of Minneapolis have been.
24:04How do you feel or do you feel that congressional
24:07Democrats are rising to this moment in a way
24:09that is inspirational in any way, shape, or form?
24:13I think the people are leading and they're
24:15following.
24:15Yeah.
24:16Which might be okay.
24:17Yeah.
24:17I mean, look, in some ways, I think a lot of
24:20times that's exactly what happens, right?
24:23I mean, you can look at the Gallup polling on MLK.
24:26You could look at the...
24:26I saw Gallup polling today on the Kent State
24:28shooting in which 65% of people...
24:32Yeah.
24:32...or 70% thought it was justified after it
24:34happened.
24:35What's happened is the Democrats' political
24:39class and consultant class got pounded into their
24:42head.
24:42They were on the wrong side of the immigration
24:43issue, which wasn't crazy because they genuinely
24:46were on the wrong side of public opinion in 2022,
24:4823, and 24.
24:49It genuinely hurt them politically, particularly
24:51what was happening at the border vis-a-vis
24:53asylum.
24:54They then internalized the lesson as just don't
24:56talk about immigration.
24:57If we're talking about immigration, we're losing.
24:59And then they tried to pull off this thing where
25:00we're like, we're just not going to talk about it.
25:01We're not going to talk about it.
25:02Well, it turns out you're going to have to talk
25:04about it.
25:05Yeah.
25:05And basically what's happened is that the courage
25:07and moral fortitude and organization and
25:10persistence of people from Los Angeles to
25:13Chicago to Memphis to now Minneapolis has
25:18forced public opinion in the right direction that
25:22now the Democratic elected politicians can kind
25:24of file in behind them.
25:26It is a real interesting moment in American
25:29history.
25:29We're very lucky to have you here to talk about
25:31it.
25:31But I also want to talk about your book.
25:32We will be back with Chris Hayes right after
25:34this.
25:48Welcome back.
25:49We're here with Chris Hayes.
25:50We talked about your book when it came out in hard
25:52cover.
25:53Now it's in paperback.
25:54And this is a book you wrote about how our attention
25:56has become a commodity.
25:58And it was sort of based on the fact that you are in an
26:00attention business, cable news, but also a parent.
26:03Yes.
26:03And that's also very attention heavy.
26:06Yeah.
26:06I mean, I think one of the things you really get as a
26:09parent early on is how much about parenting is about
26:11attention, both your own attention on your child and
26:13about cultivating your child's attention, about in
26:16many cases dealing with boredom, both sometimes your
26:20own boredom, you know, sometimes being with your kids
26:24is boring.
26:24Yeah.
26:25I'm like, did I just say that on national
26:26television?
26:27Did this happen to you?
26:28Like, my dream was one day my kids would care about
26:31sports as much as I do.
26:33And now they do.
26:33And they're so boring.
26:36Like, we'll be walking to school.
26:37They're like, who's better?
26:39Aaron Judge or Shoei Otan?
26:40I'm like, we can't talk about this anymore.
26:44I actually, I have become quite the sports dad.
26:47And I got to say, I truly do love it to a disconcerting
26:50degree.
26:51But part of it, too, is a lot of childhood is dealing
26:54with your own boredom and how to regulate it.
26:55And in some ways, we associate boredom with childhood
26:58precisely because as soon as we get old enough, we don't
27:02allow ourselves to be bored at all.
27:03Yeah.
27:04That's why we have this little device in our pocket that's
27:05just a boredom killer all the time.
27:07And, you know, every parent has had this experience, you
27:10know, of like, you're on your phone and your kid comes up
27:12to you and they're like, I'm bored.
27:13And you're like, go figure out.
27:14Don't be bored.
27:15Go back here.
27:19And so I think that the combination of my work, the
27:21combination of having to, frankly, cover Donald Trump
27:24and parenting all sort of came together.
27:27Yeah.
27:28You also talk about, you know, we are with AI, which,
27:31again, just from when you wrote the book to now, the amount
27:35of advancements that have happened, they were sort of in
27:37the steroid era, like steroids to MLB is what we were at with
27:41like AI in our society.
27:42Yeah.
27:42I think there's a weird, there's a weird analogy here,
27:44which is that what happened in baseball was first the batters
27:47started juicing.
27:48Yeah.
27:48And then they were just like rocking the ball out in the
27:50park.
27:51And then the pitchers started juicing.
27:53Yeah.
27:53So then you would have these, you'd have like a juiced up
27:55batter against a juiced up pitcher.
27:57You're like, well, both of you guys could both get off the
27:59steroids.
28:00Yeah.
28:00And we could get back to the old equilibrium.
28:02Yeah.
28:03And no one has to do any injections.
28:04Yeah.
28:05So you've got this funny thing happening with AI where like,
28:08for instance, it's never been easier to write a cover letter
28:11and to put together a resume.
28:12Yeah.
28:12ChatGPG can do it for you.
28:14Yeah.
28:14Right.
28:15So what's happening is, you know, the applications places are
28:19getting for jobs have gone up.
28:20Yeah.
28:20Applications for academic publications.
28:22So then what's the response?
28:24Well, you employ AI to screen them out.
28:26So it's like you've got AI generated slop and AI filters.
28:30And so all this is like, all the AI stuff is happening.
28:33It's like, where exactly do humans fit in?
28:35Yeah.
28:36And does it, do we need both of the, can we get rid of both of
28:39that and go back to human generated stuff and humans reading it?
28:43Oh my God.
28:45But I was going to say, like, obviously you're biased because you're a human.
28:52That is, that is absolutely true.
28:54No, but actually there is something about this that is true.
28:56I thought about this because sometimes people will say, you'll see someone say,
29:00you know, they had to give a best man toast.
29:02Yeah.
29:03And they used an AI chatbot to do it.
29:05And I'm like, why would you do that?
29:06But then I think to myself, look, I'm a professional communicator and writer.
29:09Yeah.
29:09This is what I do for a living.
29:10Like, I have hired people to do things around my house that someone who knows how to do that
29:16might look and kind of scoff.
29:18Right, right.
29:18And say like, why would you hire someone to do that rewiring?
29:20Just figure it out how to do it yourself.
29:21So I am a little sensitive to, like, there are certain skills that I have that I think
29:25are important that everyone should have or are precious.
29:28And it is true.
29:29I think you can be a little biased because when, like, the machines come for the thing
29:33you do.
29:33Oh, right, right, right.
29:34You're a little like, well, why don't we, we don't need to make, let's.
29:37Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.
29:38I don't think we need AI TV hosts, okay?
29:42They could do some other stuff, but not that.
29:44We also, you know, look, Donald Trump dominated people's attention.
29:48Yes.
29:48It's one of the things he did better, continues to do better than maybe any politician ever.
29:52And it has served him very well.
29:54You know, our mayor, Mamdani, did seem to understand that.
29:58Maybe the first sort of post-Trump politician.
30:00Totally.
30:01To become national in a position that is not a national position.
30:06Do you fear that we are now going to see a lot of less charismatic politicians try to
30:12pull off the Mamdani slash Trump playbook?
30:15Oh, we're going to get so much vertical video.
30:17Yeah.
30:17You're going to be, I mean, you're already seeing, like, every Democratic candidate trying
30:21to sort of take the formal elements.
30:22But I actually don't think it's the worst thing.
30:24I mean, look, this is the way politics works.
30:26Yeah.
30:26It's the way sports works, right?
30:28Some team figures out some new offense and everyone kind of copycats it.
30:31Yeah.
30:32You've seen a lot of, like, really cringeworthy knockoff Donald Trump impressions by Republicans.
30:37Yep.
30:37Ron DeSantis coming to mind most foremost.
30:39Yeah.
30:40And I think you'll get a lot of that with Mamdani.
30:42But one of the things I think that's been really interesting about watching Mamdani make
30:59going to, you know, plow the snow in the streets and here's what you should expect.
31:03But it was really good.
31:04And it was compelling.
31:05It was fun to show my kids.
31:07It was fun to show your kids.
31:08Yeah.
31:09And I think that he gets in a way that I think a lot of politicians don't, particularly Democratic
31:13politicians, have this sense of, like, well, the time for campaigning is over.
31:17Right.
31:17And now it's the time for governing.
31:19And now we're in a different mode and we're a different register and we're in a different
31:22form of communication.
31:23And I think he gets us at, like, no, you still got to just be talking to people all the
31:26time.
31:27Yeah.
31:27Never stop communicating.
31:28Never stop.
31:28It's a very good instinct.
31:31Thanks for being here.
31:32It's always such a pleasure to see you.
31:33It's so good to be here.
31:33Chris Hayes, everybody.
31:34The Sirens Call is out now on paperback.
31:36We'll be right back with Bob as the drag queen.
31:54Our next guest, a Peabody award-winning actor, comedian, and New York Times best-selling
31:58author.
31:59You know from The Traitors, RuPaul's Drag Race, and We Are Here.
32:03And tomorrow, he will make his Broadway debut as Harold Zidler in Moulin Rouge!
32:08The Musical at the Alhurst Club Theater.
32:09Please welcome to the show, everybody, Bob the Drag Queen.
32:28No, no, no, Bob.
32:30I insist.
32:31I insist.
32:32I didn't bring you all the way out here to have you all the way over there.
32:36And I cannot believe you.
32:37I want to thank you for spending your last day of freedom before you become a Broadway
32:42actor.
32:43Yeah, Broadway is eight shows a week.
32:46Yeah.
32:46I don't know if it's humane.
32:47But you are, and again, you're no stranger to performing, but Broadway is a whole other
32:52thing.
32:52It's a beast of a different shape, for sure.
32:55And I'm going to conquer this beast.
32:57This is a very, this is the role that was Jim Broadbent played in the film, Harold
33:02Zidler, the master of ceremonies.
33:03How has your preparation been going?
33:06Well, fun fact, I actually watched the movie for the first time like three weeks ago.
33:10Really?
33:11Yeah, I had never seen the movie before.
33:14I saw the play twice before I saw the movie, once.
33:16Wow.
33:17Yeah.
33:18Did you like it?
33:19Yeah, I loved it.
33:19Great.
33:20So I get it.
33:20That would have been awkward.
33:22No, I get it.
33:23I feel convinced that Baz Luhrmann was on something.
33:27Yeah, yeah, yeah.
33:28Because it is a trip.
33:29I was like, am I high?
33:30Baz Luhrmann would be a good slang for a drug.
33:33Yeah, I got about three bags of Baz.
33:37You know?
33:38I do want to give a quick shout-out to all the people in Minneapolis who are just eating.
33:43So like right now, I used to live in Minneapolis.
33:47You're right.
33:48It's a beautiful town.
33:49It really is.
33:50And if anyone knows how to deal with ice, it is the people from the freezing town of Minneapolis, Minnesota.
33:55So shout-out to everyone in Minneapolis.
33:56All right.
33:57Well, thank you for that.
33:59So you moved to New York City when you were 22.
34:03Is that accurate?
34:04Yeah.
34:05You know what a twink is?
34:07I mean, it's like one of the little twinkies, right?
34:11Yeah.
34:11I was a big six-foot-two twink, but yeah.
34:14You used to be a twink.
34:15Was I?
34:16Yo, you were a twink.
34:18Oh, my God.
34:20Were you a twink?
34:23Is this how people usually find out?
34:25Somebody tells them after the fact?
34:26No, most twinks, no.
34:28But some twinks, you know, some twinks have twinkness bestowed upon them.
34:31Okay, good.
34:32I was born in the twinkness, you know, one of those vibes.
34:35So you knew.
34:35Yeah, I knew you were a twink.
34:36So you came here as a big twink.
34:38Yeah.
34:38And was the city ready for you?
34:41I was not ready for the city.
34:44So New York City is a pretty tough...
34:46I lived here for 12 years, and I moved here, and I was like,
34:48I'm going to be a big Broadway actor, but no one told me that to be in the company,
34:53be like a chorus boy on Broadway, you really got to be able to sing and dance.
34:57Yeah.
34:58No one told me that!
34:59Now, that's so funny, because I'm not in Broadway, and I feel like I knew that.
35:04Yeah.
35:04And I went to school, and no one told me.
35:07Yeah, I'm one of those smart twinks.
35:10Okay, that's an oxymoron.
35:13And those don't exist.
35:15So I went to a couple of auditions and stuff, got a lot of no's.
35:18I mean, let me tell you right now, no matter where you're going in your journey,
35:20it might take you 17 years.
35:22There's a lot of detours.
35:24You know, I still use MapQuest, so I'm taking the scenic route, you know what I mean?
35:28But I got there eventually.
35:29In fact, do you remember the first Broadway show you ever saw?
35:32Oh, yeah, the first...
35:33Okay, this is so crazy.
35:35The first Broadway show I ever saw was Xanadu.
35:38Okay.
35:39And there's a guy named Andre Ward who was in it.
35:41He had this epic line in it, and then he's in this production of Moulin Rouge.
35:46Really?
35:47Yes, he's in the first show I saw, and he's in the first Broadway show that I'm in.
35:50Isn't that crazy?
35:51That's really wonderful.
35:52I want to ask, we talked about you moving to New York City.
35:54And a lot of people, when they move here, you know, early apartments, early roommates.
35:58Did you have any of note?
36:00Yeah, I had a lot of...
36:01Well, I...
36:01Every...
36:02Most New Yorkers won't tell you this, but a lot of us have a very...
36:06We all have this one roommate in common.
36:08Mice.
36:08A lot of us have mice.
36:09Yeah, yeah, yeah.
36:09You're acting like you don't.
36:10Don't act like you never had mice.
36:12You've had mice!
36:13Yeah.
36:14So I've lived with quite a few mice in my day.
36:17And I had some really crummy apartments.
36:18I mean, I used to live in this apartment in Ozone Park, Queens, which is about as far
36:23away as you can get from Manhattan and still live in New York City.
36:27It is...
36:27It's the A train all the way...
36:29Right before Jamaica Bay is where it's.
36:31Right before Jamaica Bay.
36:32So I lived out there with this lady and her husband and my other roommate.
36:37There were five...
36:37And she was pregnant.
36:39She was pregnant.
36:39She had a baby.
36:41She had a husband.
36:42She probably still has the baby and the husband.
36:43We don't talk.
36:45And then I was...
36:46Me and my other roommate were living in the other room.
36:47It was a one-bedroom, and they lived in the living room, and we lived in the bedroom.
36:51And that was kind of a...
36:52That was a nightmare roommate situation.
36:54It doesn't sound good.
36:55Well, she...
36:55Even the mice were like, we feel terrible for you.
36:56Yeah, it was a lot.
36:58It was a lot.
36:59People know you from a great many things.
37:01Yes.
37:01RuPaul's Drag Race.
37:01Mm-hmm.
37:03Wow!
37:04You also are an author as well.
37:08You wrote a fantastic book.
37:09Yes!
37:10Congratulations on this, too.
37:12This is the first book I ever wrote.
37:14I got a call to write a book, and they were like, you want to write a memoir?
37:16And I was like, I'm too young.
37:19Well, what would I write about?
37:21But I had this idea, like, what if...
37:24Hear me out.
37:25What if Harriet Tubman wrote a hip-hop album?
37:27I know it sounds crazy, but I would listen.
37:30She would give Kendrick Lamar a run for his money.
37:32Yeah.
37:32You know what I mean?
37:33So then I decided to...
37:34I was writing it as a play first, but then I turned it into a book after I got this
37:37book
37:38deal, and I'm really glad.
37:38I think it's going to help the play.
37:39The play will...
37:40Mark my words.
37:41The play will make it to Broadway one day.
37:43That's fantastic.
37:43We will all look forward to that.
37:46So, you know, I will admit, I don't have a ton of knowledge about the world, but I'm
37:51fascinated by sort of how people come up with drag names, and I also want to ask how
37:56you came up with yours, because it does seem very unique amongst the names.
38:00Yes.
38:00Well, it's crazy, because first of all, my real name's not Bob.
38:04Everyone thinks my name is Tiffany.
38:07Stop kidding.
38:10I'm sorry, sir.
38:11I did not just get off the bus.
38:16No, so my name used to be Kitten with a Whip for, like, God, like three or four years.
38:22It's an old Anne-Margaret movie.
38:23Okay, gotcha.
38:24And I was going...
38:25But everyone kept calling me Kate or Cat or Kitty.
38:27Not my name.
38:28Yeah.
38:29And so I was at this bar called XS Lounge, which doesn't exist.
38:32It was back in Chelsea.
38:34Back in Nygam, one of those New Yorkers.
38:36That used to be a coffee shop.
38:39And then this guy, it was, like, late night, my friend Brian Kalanowski was the DJ.
38:43We kept saying our names over and over again.
38:44This drunk guy had just finished up, and he was like, guys, you got to give it up for
38:48your host, Kate.
38:50And I was like, Kate?
38:51That's not a drag name.
38:53Yeah.
38:53I was like, yeah, guys, give it up for me, your host, Kim.
38:55Kim, the drag queen.
38:56And then I kept making a more plan.
38:57Give it up for me, your host, Joe, the drag queen.
39:00And then I was like, and give it up for me, your host, Bob, the drag queen.
39:04And I was like, oh, my God, this is a great name.
39:07I told my friends, I said, I'm going to change my name to Bob the drag queen.
39:10And they all went, do not do that.
39:11That's a horrible name.
39:13And all I need is one person to say don't do it.
39:16Yeah, yeah, yeah.
39:17I'm hopping on it.
39:17When?
39:18But then at some point, people must be jealous that you made such a bold choice.
39:22I mean, when did it take off?
39:23When were you like, oh, I got an A-plus name here.
39:25No, immediately.
39:26Yeah.
39:27And I always thought it would be really funny if someone named Bob, if a drag queen named Bob won
39:31some national title.
39:33And then I did.
39:34And you know what?
39:34It was funny.
39:37Agreed.
39:38Bob the drag queen, everyone.
39:40Don't miss him on Broadway.
39:41It's time to come out for the next eight weeks.
39:44Moulin Rouge, the musical at the Al Harsfeld Theater.
39:59Come join the audience at Late Night live in Studio 8G.
40:02For tickets, head over to LateNightSethTickets.com.
40:05Follow us at Late Night Seth on all social media platforms.
40:09Subscribe to Late Night Seth on YouTube.
40:11Find us online at LateNightSeth.com.
40:14And subscribe to the Late Night podcast, featuring a closer look, guest interviews, and more.
40:19Available wherever you listen to podcasts.
40:29I want to thank my guest, Chris Hayes, Bob the Drag Queen, everybody.
40:32Thank you all for watching.
40:33We love you.
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