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The First 48 - Season 29 - Episode 11: In Blood
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TVTranscript
00:01This program documents actual homicide investigations.
00:05Criminal charges are often dropped or reduced,
00:07and all suspects shown are presumed innocent unless proven guilty.
00:20A quiet afternoon in Lawrenceville, Georgia.
00:25A woman finds her brother on the floor of his home.
00:30She's dead and calls 9-1-1.
00:49On the wall, it looks like you were stumbling.
00:52I didn't see any force in you.
00:55Not on the front door, not on the back door.
01:00There is a little bit of one on his bed frame.
01:03It looks like where he may have hit it and then fallen over.
01:06You know, after he had passed.
01:08I'll check him out.
01:10The medical examiner's office will conduct an autopsy
01:13to determine cause of death.
01:15You want me to call Sergeant Ricker to tell him?
01:17No, I'm going to call him.
01:17Once I knew him.
01:23This is Corporate York.
01:29When they did the autopsy, they actually noticed some of the wounds in the area of the neck.
01:34Dr. Terry says she's going to deem it a homicide.
01:47For homicide detectives, their chance of solving a murder is cut in half if they don't get a lead within
01:55the first 48 hours.
02:02Due to the fact that this happened over the weekend, we're going to pull in other members of the unit.
02:06Because I'm behind the eight ball and got a little catch up to do.
02:20Saturday night, we had a suspicious death.
02:23Guy laying face down.
02:24Uniform goes out, sees him.
02:25He's laying at the foot of his bed.
02:29His name's Ray Neal.
02:3361-year-old Ray Neal, known to friends as Raybone, was born in Lawrenceville, Georgia.
02:40He had a daughter and three sons.
02:44Recently diagnosed with cirrhosis of the liver, Ray had been relying on help from friends and family for day-to
02:50-day tasks.
02:53This guy's got 47 stabbing.
02:56He's got two to the back, one on the neck, one to the left shoulder.
03:00One actually goes through and through, but all the wounds are two and a half to three inches deep.
03:06It's personal, stabbing him like that.
03:10What uniform got when they went out on a Friday evening?
03:13His sister picks him up at the Chevron on Langley Drive around 4 p.m., brings him back to the
03:18address on Lexington.
03:21Saturday morning, his sister, they go inside and find him obviously face down next to the bed.
03:26And his body is covered up with two blankets.
03:29Like, intentionally covered up?
03:31Probably.
03:32And then they call police out.
03:35There was no bloody knife in the bedroom.
03:39There was a knife on the TV stand, but it was clean.
03:45Maybe he was face down, stabbed him in the back.
03:48I don't know.
03:50The family took the guy's phone, so they started going through the phone themselves.
03:55There are a few calls around like 519 a.m.
03:59Hegwood's working on getting the phones downloaded.
04:01I'm doing the search warrant.
04:03Focus on the scene and redo the scene and we'll get all your stuff there and then interview you people
04:08later.
04:10At this stage in the game, we're going to do another secondary search warrant out the house.
04:14I want to do some additional fingerprint.
04:16Maybe do some blue star.
04:18You comfortable with the sister?
04:21She's going to meet me out of the house anyways.
04:31This guy, as old as he is, I'm just wondering if he's established himself in the community to where we
04:37might get some tips.
04:39Once people learn that, you know, it was a homicide, people may know who he hangs out with.
04:45I believe that right now, whoever stabbed our victim, it was personal.
04:49It's just a matter of figuring out who he was with or who would have had a beef with him.
05:01Walk through and then I'll go talk to the sister.
05:06He was dead next to the bed.
05:09He did not have a wallet or ID card, no cash, nothing.
05:15I mean, that's blood, right?
05:16Yeah, that was blood.
05:19Blood evidence in the bathroom.
05:22The light plate.
05:24Let's pull that light switch and process that.
05:28Bridge detail, maybe four fingerprints.
05:32And then blue star.
05:34The bedroom, the hallway, and the bathroom.
05:37I'm going to go out there.
05:45Hey, I'm sorry to bother you. You live here?
05:47Yeah.
05:49We're investigating a homicide over here.
05:51Friday into Saturday.
05:52Uh-huh.
05:53Did you notice anything suspicious?
05:56There's so much traffic be in and out that place.
05:58I don't know what be going on, sir.
06:00OK.
06:00You know, like, it's just me and my son live here.
06:02Right, right.
06:03And I mind my own business.
06:05How long does the people want more hanging around?
06:08It's not very, very long.
06:10You know, I just noticed, like, cars come, leave, come.
06:15OK.
06:16Two, three minutes leave, go in, come out the house.
06:20OK.
06:20You know, all the way up to, like, sometime 1230, 1 o'clock in the morning.
06:25OK.
06:26I hope you find out what's going on over there,
06:29because that's pretty close to my house.
06:31Yeah, we're going to do everything within our means
06:33to figure out what happened.
06:43I believe there's drug activity going on in this house.
06:45OK?
06:45I'll just put it out on the table.
06:49I'm going to talk to the sister.
06:51Hi, Ms. Smalls.
06:52Can you entertain me for a little bit?
06:53Yes.
06:54OK.
06:59My name's Corporal York, and I'm sorry for whatever occurred.
07:03We're going to do everything we can to, you know,
07:05answer the question that you guys had.
07:07Can you just kind of tell me as the vets go?
07:11So let me go back to Friday.
07:13He had been drinking.
07:15Did your brother have a problem drinking?
07:18Or was that a problem?
07:18Just last six months, he was going back and forth to the doctor.
07:21Something about the doctor told him he was like borderline
07:24having cirrhosis of the liver and he need to stop drinking.
07:27OK.
07:28Well, he was drinking beer.
07:31I brought him home.
07:33It was about 5.30 or so.
07:36And I told him, I said, don't leave this house no more today.
07:40He said, OK, bye.
07:42And I locked the door and closed it.
07:43OK.
07:44That was the last I seen out of him.
07:49Is there anyone else you can think of that would have any reason to want to harm your brother?
07:54That's just it.
07:56I don't know who would want to hurt him.
08:01Whoever knew that he always had cash money on it.
08:04How much does he normally keep it?
08:07I'm sure he had a couple hundred dollars.
08:10Because we looked for it and there was no money in there.
08:15They took his money because he always had money and he had dough.
08:20What kind of?
08:22Crack.
08:22OK.
08:25He's a little nickel and dime.
08:27OK.
08:28So he had a couple little rocks that he sell enough to get back and pay the bills.
08:35I feel like there's somebody that he knew.
08:38He's not the type of person to just let anybody in.
08:41So he knew who he was.
08:43And whoever he was, locked the door and came out.
08:48You might want to talk to it over here.
08:50She gives the name of a friend of Ray's.
08:52who had been staying with him until a few days ago.
08:56He had spent the night Wednesday night.
08:59He might be able to tell you a lot more than I can do
09:01because he might be on the end scale of that side of him.
09:07Do you have a phone number for him?
09:09I can get a phone number.
09:13Uh-huh.
09:20There may be some missing money.
09:22There may be some missing drugs.
09:26But, I mean, the manner of attacking it, it's personal.
09:31It's extremely personal.
09:34Corporal Dallas York calls the man who had been staying with Ray.
09:39Hey, good evening.
09:40My name is Corporal York at the Grant County Police Department.
09:43Yeah.
09:44I was wanting to see if you could meet with me.
09:47I just want to talk to you in reference to an individual named Ray Neal.
09:54What's convenient for you, sir?
09:56Uh, tomorrow.
09:57Yeah, that's fine.
09:59Okay, thank you.
10:00All right. Thanks, everybody.
10:03But all in all, I think we're still in a pretty decent position
10:07given the fact we were, had such a delayed start.
10:11So we'll see.
10:12We'll see what it foretells.
10:14We'll go at it in the morning.
10:26I want to look at the blue star.
10:29York pulls up crime scene photos from Ray's house.
10:33Blue star is a chemical that makes the iron content in blood.
10:37It'll show up bright blue when the lights are turned off.
10:43There's the blue star coming out.
10:47Yeah, it'll definitely show them.
10:51That's in the kitchen.
10:54Look at that.
10:56With your naked eye, you couldn't tell a majority of that,
10:58especially on the scene.
11:02Look at this.
11:03Oh, no kidding.
11:05On the washing machine.
11:06Now, that's interesting.
11:09Zoom into the washing machine.
11:12That's a significant amount.
11:17There was clothes in it.
11:20There's a pillow in there.
11:22Oh, that's interesting.
11:24There's a pillow that was on his bed.
11:31Ooh, these boats.
11:53Look at all the drops.
11:56Oh, smokes.
11:58So it was probably dripping off the knife
12:01and dripping off his hands.
12:05There's this print, remember?
12:07Yeah.
12:08And we took that, so maybe they can print that thing.
12:18Our victim's friend.
12:20He was evidently staying with the victim.
12:23See what he's got to say.
12:27All right.
12:28You might have a C right here.
12:29Peter, how are you?
12:30I am corporal.
12:33Great.
12:34So how do you know him?
12:36My whole life, well,
12:37I was raised up together.
12:38Oh, good.
12:39I don't know.
12:40Those kids played in their backyard.
12:44Normally about every other day,
12:46I'll go over there,
12:47I'll call them and tell them I'm coming.
12:49He might need to go pay his water bill
12:51or go get money ordered for us when we had to go.
12:53Okay.
12:54Might want me to go grab some beer
12:56or something like that.
12:59When's the last time you stayed over there?
13:01Thursday night, Friday morning.
13:04That's where my wife said,
13:06we're kind of like going through something right now.
13:07I guess I'll have to stand up with friends.
13:10It was getting to be daylight.
13:11And I told him, I said,
13:12I've got some things I've got to do
13:14or something like to go ahead and leave.
13:15He said, all right.
13:17I said, but call me right home if you need me.
13:19And that's the last time I talked to him.
13:25What about as far as his whatever mind?
13:27Yeah, did he normally keep in a wallet?
13:30No, he didn't, he never put money in his wallet.
13:32When we were in the store,
13:34he would always put his money out of the right pocket.
13:37Seemed like he would just always put his money
13:38in the right pocket.
13:40How much money do you typically see him?
13:43A few hundred?
13:45No, I can't tell you.
13:48So do you know where Greg gets that money from?
13:51I don't know.
13:53Do you know him to use crack cocaine?
13:56Back years and years and years ago,
13:58yeah, but I ain't seen great
14:00high other than drinking in years.
14:03I'm talking years.
14:06Like either in the past or currently,
14:08do you ever use crack?
14:09No, I used to.
14:11I used to have every drug in this book.
14:13You know what I'm saying?
14:14Yeah.
14:15I got kids and grandkids now.
14:19Let me get you.
14:20It's going to be sort of bolts on.
14:22But did you have anything to do with this?
14:26Hell no.
14:28I would never hurt Ray.
14:31You mind just giving me a sample of your DNA?
14:34Sure.
14:37I mean, I ain't got no problem doing that
14:39because I wasn't there.
14:41I didn't do this to Ray.
14:42I wouldn't hurt Ray ever.
14:44You know what I'm saying?
14:48I mean, he's got no injuries.
14:50He gave us his DNA, his fingerprints.
14:53We've got a lot of that type of evidence at the scene.
14:56We need to eliminate him.
14:59Prints are in blood on the sink.
15:01How many prints of value did you get last night?
15:04Three, I don't know.
15:06The fingerprints on the light switch and sink
15:08do not have enough detail to make a comparison.
15:12The DNA and stuff, that's going to take, what,
15:14four or five months to get back?
15:26As the clock winds down.
15:29I thought we'd be a little bit further.
15:31At least someone will kind of push us in the direction
15:35that I feel we need to go.
15:37Somebody had something out for him.
15:39We just got to figure out who it was.
15:41I just think it was a she.
15:43It just seems more like a female thing
15:46to stab somebody in the neck like that
15:47and then clean up immediately in the bathroom
15:50right outside the bedroom.
15:53Guys would have had it done.
15:55The knife is personal.
15:56Like, they came over there.
15:57She saw him sitting there,
15:58and she just couldn't take it no more.
15:59She grabbed a knife.
16:01And what's the motive?
16:03God, they got to be angry at him.
16:05Or if they're in cocaine psychosis,
16:07you can do a lot of crazy stuff in cocaine psychosis.
16:11I hope that blood on the sink is your room.
16:13Yeah.
16:14There's no way they're that good with a knife
16:17in order to do that much damage
16:19and not have a single cut on them.
16:24Have we seen anything on the phone yet?
16:27There's not a lot of content in it.
16:30Trying to identify some of these individuals
16:33that our victim was talking to
16:34on his phone records.
16:38Is this one on there, it's a boo?
16:44Boo had sent a message about needs $60.
16:49Boo was the last call.
17:16I'd like to bring her in.
17:22Kind of get, you know, another feeler interview,
17:25you know, and obviously look for any lacerations.
17:31Yes, this is Corporal York,
17:32the County Police Department.
17:33I'm going to try and reach Carmen Hunt.
17:34It's in reference to an investigation
17:37involving a subject named Ray Neal.
17:40If you would give me a call back,
17:41I would appreciate it.
18:01Boo's trying to call.
18:04Corporal York,
18:04the County Police Department.
18:06Yes, this is called, man.
18:08Are you familiar with Ray Bone?
18:11No, I don't know anybody
18:12about Ray Bone.
18:15Okay, let me ask you,
18:16the reason I'm calling
18:17is your phone number's coming up
18:19in his call records.
18:20Uh-huh.
18:21And I'd like to meet with you
18:24and show you this guy's picture,
18:25see where he knows you from.
18:28Is that a possibility?
18:30No, that's fine.
18:32Do you want to come to me
18:33or you want me to come out to you?
18:35You can come to me.
18:37Okay.
18:38Am I in trouble?
18:41Uh, no, ma'am.
18:42I just, like I said,
18:42you're going to come up
18:43in the phone records
18:44and I've got to figure out
18:45where this guy knows you from.
18:47Thank you, ma'am.
18:57They're coming over here.
18:59That's her.
19:01Carmen arrives
19:02with her girlfriend.
19:06Hey, Ms. Carmen,
19:07I appreciate you meeting with me.
19:08I'm York.
19:12I'm working
19:13that homicide investigation,
19:14okay,
19:15and basically,
19:16one of the phones
19:17that we downloaded
19:17had you as a contact
19:18and the number.
19:20Ray Neal.
19:21No, sir.
19:22It goes by Ray Bone,
19:23Ray Bones.
19:24I do not know
19:25my body body name.
19:27Who does that do?
19:30He's someone.
19:32You know,
19:33sometimes I go check on him
19:35and he might have him
19:36wash his clothes
19:37or cook him something
19:38because I cook.
19:40I always liked him.
19:43Okay.
19:44Let me show you
19:45just to confirm.
19:48Is this your number?
19:50That's my number.
19:52And what was
19:52the point of that?
19:54I took him some food.
19:56Did you go in the house?
19:58I did.
19:58I was there
19:59for like 15 minutes.
20:01I was straightening
20:02that up for him.
20:02That's what I used
20:03to do for him.
20:04Did you do,
20:05do you remember
20:05doing any laundry
20:06or anything
20:06while you were over there?
20:08Yeah,
20:08I think he had
20:09to do a set of,
20:11he wanted some towels,
20:12whatever was in that basket.
20:13He wanted that wash.
20:16There was a text message
20:18that you sent him
20:19Friday evening.
20:20basically saying
20:21he needed $60.
20:22What was with that?
20:24He was supposed
20:24to let me borrow
20:25some money.
20:27I know this guy
20:28is a crack dealer.
20:29Okay?
20:30That's confirmed.
20:32Can I ask you
20:33something too?
20:33And I don't,
20:34I'm not trying
20:35to offend you or anything.
20:35It just sort of helps
20:36with the investigation.
20:38When's the last time
20:38you used crack?
20:40It's been a little while.
20:43Go ahead.
20:44I'm going to ask you
20:45what happened.
20:47He's dead.
20:48He's dead.
20:50Somebody killed him.
20:52How did he die though?
20:54He was stabbed.
20:57You know why they killed him?
20:59It's what we're
21:00trying to figure out.
21:04Obviously this is,
21:05it's emotional for you.
21:09He didn't do nothing
21:10to nobody.
21:14So when you went over there,
21:16did you notice any blood?
21:17No.
21:19What was that call about?
21:22They ask about
21:22her last phone call
21:23with Ray.
21:25I called him back
21:26and I told him
21:26I wasn't coming
21:27and I never went back.
21:28He wanted me to bring him
21:30some more beer
21:30and she started tripping.
21:32She said,
21:32we weren't going back over there.
21:35She says her girlfriend
21:36refused to take her back
21:37to Ray's house
21:38that night.
21:40So you weren't
21:41in Lawrenceville
21:41at that time?
21:42No.
21:43I swear I was not
21:44in Lawrenceville.
21:45I was with her.
21:47If you want to ask her
21:48and talk to her,
21:49you can.
21:50You want to step over
21:51and ask her?
22:13Give us some clarification
22:14on the day?
22:14She said it was Friday.
22:15Okay.
22:16Said you guys were there.
22:18Seems like a really nice lady.
22:24She tries to keep me straight
22:25because I'm not a bad person.
22:26I got an education.
22:28I work hard.
22:29I work basically
22:30every single day.
22:31Okay.
22:31I'm not out here
22:32taking or doing
22:34something for people.
22:35Okay.
22:35Like, I work.
22:36Right.
22:37And I work hard
22:38every single day.
22:39Sounds like she's
22:40a good person
22:41to have around.
22:42She is.
22:43She is.
22:45Did you hurt your hand there?
22:47Your right hand?
22:48Yes.
22:48Yeah.
22:49Yeah, it's a burn.
22:50It's a burn?
22:51Yeah.
22:52Oh, when did I have her?
22:54Maybe a week and a half.
22:57Would you be okay with me?
22:58They asked Carmen
22:59to submit DNA
23:00and fingerprints.
23:02Okay.
23:10I appreciate you calling me back.
23:12Bye, guys.
23:13Thank you, ma'am.
23:16Probably a good chance
23:17that Carmen was the last one
23:19that he saw
23:19that wasn't killing him.
23:22I tend to believe her, man.
23:24Yeah, I do.
23:25But I didn't get a bad vibe
23:26of her.
23:27I think we could probably
23:29write her off.
23:30And the friend's very calm
23:32and of a very sane mind,
23:33it appears.
23:36We need help
23:37from people that know him.
23:44I'm basically just making contact
23:46with every person
23:46that's ever made contact
23:47with your dad
23:48within the last
23:49two, three months.
23:50And then your dad
23:51didn't have any peace
23:52with anybody.
23:52I don't know about him.
23:56Have you guys
23:57kind of heard anything?
23:58Three to saying
23:59that it was a girl
23:59that knocked around
24:01where we're from.
24:03She was locked up
24:04months before
24:05all this went down.
24:07I mean, what do you think?
24:09He's old, dude.
24:10Any of his people
24:11he may have sold it to
24:12would have had any reason
24:13to come back on him?
24:15I don't know.
24:17I'm getting frustrated.
24:24Two years
24:25into the investigation.
24:27In this case,
24:29was he transferring
24:29to the cold case unit?
24:32Sergeant Micah Hedwood
24:33is assigned
24:34as lead investigator.
24:36York did a ton
24:37of work on this case.
24:39He went to the crime scene
24:40multiple times.
24:41He interviewed
24:42probably 30 people.
24:43York obtained
24:45a lot of fingerprints
24:45and DNA,
24:47but they did not
24:48hit to anything.
24:49You have to go
24:50into these cold cases
24:51like a jigsaw puzzle
24:52and there's always
24:53a missing piece or two
24:54and you're trying
24:55to figure out
24:55what those pieces
24:56look like.
24:57All the physical evidence,
24:58we've had it.
25:00We just don't know
25:00what to do with it.
25:02That's true
25:03with a lot of cold cases.
25:04You got to figure out
25:04what to do
25:05with the pieces
25:05that you already have.
25:12Detectives continue
25:13to work the case
25:14for three more years.
25:17until finally
25:19a break.
25:22I got a call
25:24from a family member
25:25of Ray Neal
25:27and this family member
25:29says Carmen Hunt
25:30did it
25:31and she did the same thing
25:33to somebody else.
25:34She's in jail
25:34right now for that.
25:36Carmen Hunt,
25:37she had stabbed
25:39a very low-level
25:40drug dealer
25:41in the back
25:42with a very large
25:43kitchen butcher knife.
25:44It's almost the same
25:45exact knife
25:46that was used
25:47on Ray Neal.
25:48Same circumstances
25:49but the only thing
25:50that was different
25:51is the second victim
25:53was up on his feet
25:55and was able
25:55to get away.
25:56The victim of the second
25:58stabbing
25:59is one of Ray Neal's friends.
26:01She was, you know,
26:03on our list of people
26:04since the day
26:05it occurred.
26:06But right now
26:07we're going up
26:08to Hall County.
26:09We're going to try
26:10to find a woman.
26:11She was driving
26:12around Carmen Hunt
26:13the day Ray Neal
26:14was murdered.
26:16Hopefully she's not
26:17going to protect Carmen
26:18if she does know something.
26:27I'm Sergeant Higwood.
26:29Higwood finds
26:30the girlfriend.
26:31It was with Carmen
26:32the night Ray Neal
26:33was killed.
26:34This is
26:35Purple Quarter.
26:37Let me preface this
26:38with I'm investigating
26:39homicide.
26:41This incident
26:43happened in 2019.
26:45When did you
26:46start to meet Carmen
26:47and y'all were dating
26:48at the time, right?
26:50We started dating
26:52in 2019.
26:55The incident
26:56we're looking at
26:57is July 19th.
26:59He's talking about
27:00older gentlemen.
27:02Mm-hmm.
27:02Did you know
27:03the gentleman at all
27:04that passed away?
27:06I did not.
27:08On that day
27:10me and her
27:12I picked her up.
27:14So the older gentleman
27:15in the house
27:16we went to
27:17she came back out.
27:19We went to
27:20the Chevron.
27:22She went into
27:23the bathroom.
27:24She had totally
27:25smoked up
27:26the whole stuff.
27:27So she was like
27:29I need to go
27:30get more.
27:31So I was like
27:32okay.
27:34So I took her
27:35back over there
27:38and the next thing
27:39I know
27:39she told me
27:40to pull over
27:40to the quick trip.
27:42She went into
27:43that bathroom.
27:45I was like
27:46okay
27:46I don't know
27:48what the hell
27:48is going on
27:49but I'm done.
27:51And so
27:52at that point
27:52in time
27:53I left her
27:54there.
27:56She says
27:57she didn't see
27:57Carmen
27:58again that night.
28:01So at what point
28:02did you start
28:03hearing from
28:03Carmen
28:03again?
28:04When did I
28:05lose about
28:06Ray?
28:07She says
28:08four days later
28:09after the media
28:10reported on
28:10Ray's death
28:11Carmen called
28:12her.
28:13She had called
28:14me with this
28:15crazy story
28:17about how she
28:18had been
28:18into a fight
28:19to try
28:20to attack
28:21her.
28:23When you saw
28:24the news
28:25and you saw
28:25Ray was killed
28:27and like
28:27you knew
28:27you had already
28:28taken her
28:29over there
28:29twice that day
28:30did you
28:30suspect anything?
28:33No.
28:34Never did
28:35I think
28:35at that time
28:36that she
28:38did him
28:38like that.
28:39Did you ever
28:40just ask her
28:41if she knew
28:41what happened?
28:42I didn't want
28:43to know
28:43I didn't ask.
28:45Well I thank
28:46you for your time.
28:47You're welcome.
28:49I think
28:50that was good.
28:52It's good.
28:53It's not perfect.
28:54I wish she had
28:54seen some injuries
28:55or like sore
28:56after the murder.
28:57I would like
28:58for CSI
28:59to look at
29:00that print.
29:05Crime scene
29:05actually had
29:06a bloody print
29:07from the bathroom
29:08light switch.
29:10You can see
29:11the blood
29:11actually swipes
29:12like somebody's
29:13trying to reach
29:14for the switch.
29:15But what you
29:16can't see
29:17from the naked eye
29:18is the print
29:19is actually
29:20right there.
29:22In 2019
29:23they needed
29:24eight points
29:25within the print.
29:26You know
29:26eight markers.
29:29Since then
29:30as technology
29:30has gotten better
29:31their techniques
29:32have gotten better
29:34they've actually
29:35cut that number
29:36down
29:36and now
29:37it's seven points.
29:39and now
29:40we do have
29:41two bloody prints
29:42from the crime scene
29:43that are comparable
29:44and it does match
29:46two Carmen Hunts.
30:02they actually identified
30:04Carmen Hunt
30:04right ring finger
30:05as the match.
30:08I'm going to
30:09transfer her over here
30:10to police headquarters
30:11to try and interview her
30:12but I'm going to
30:13approach it as
30:14I'm interviewing
30:14everybody in this case
30:15get a statement
30:16out of her
30:17and then start
30:17confronting her.
30:27The next day
30:29Carmen is brought
30:30from Gwinnett County
30:30Jail
30:31to headquarters.
30:32All right
30:34just to be clear
30:35I'm not here
30:36about your criminal cases
30:38I'm here because
30:39you were listed
30:40as a witness
30:41and friend
30:41for Ray Nill.
30:43This ain't
30:44a setup right.
30:46Well
30:46you were listed
30:47as a witness
30:49let's just kind
30:50of go backwards
30:50and let's just
30:51go over
30:52what you do know.
30:53And just for reference
30:55you know
30:55when he was killed
30:56it was like
30:57July 19th
30:58or July 20th
30:592019.
31:01The reason
31:01I tell you
31:02that day
31:02because I kind
31:03of want to
31:03work backwards
31:04when did you
31:05see him?
31:07I think I
31:08see him
31:08the day
31:09before
31:10the injunction.
31:12What made
31:13you start using?
31:15I was getting
31:15high with a friend
31:16weed
31:17I was smoking
31:17weed with a friend
31:18that we were drinking
31:19and this is
31:20honestly not true
31:20I never wanted
31:22to try crack
31:22I'm not a person
31:23that's like
31:23I want to try
31:24this drug
31:24it's new
31:25we were smoking
31:26weed
31:26I went to use
31:27a bathtub
31:27but when I came
31:28back I hit the
31:29bowl
31:29the weed
31:31and it had
31:32crack on it
31:33and I remember
31:33how it made me feel
31:34and it just took me
31:36man it took me
31:36it took me fast
31:39And about what age
31:40do you think
31:41you were
31:41when that happened?
31:43Maybe 30s
31:45I'm 50 now
31:47what all have you
31:48done in your
31:49past
31:49in your lifetime
31:50to get the crack
31:51Oh I don't do things
31:53I don't have sex
31:54I don't steal
31:56And Ray's phone
31:57you were actually
31:57texting him
31:58on July 19th
31:59around 6.30pm
32:01and you asked him
32:03you needed
32:04$60
32:04was crack
32:05Yes
32:07Do you remember
32:08what you did
32:09when you went over there
32:11to Ray's?
32:13I just got the stuff
32:14from them
32:15Because I think
32:16when you leave
32:17Ray's
32:18you actually go
32:19to a gas station
32:19do you remember that?
32:21It was a long time
32:22ago probably
32:24And you went
32:25back to Ray's again
32:27after the gas station
32:28Okay
32:29Except this time
32:31you go to the
32:32quick trip
32:33And I got stuck
32:34in the quick trip
32:35And you went
32:36to the bathroom again
32:37Yeah
32:38Yeah
32:38I remember
32:40Okay
32:41So that night
32:43though on July
32:4419th
32:45you actually
32:46called Ray again
32:48at 10.56pm
32:50which is going to be
32:51after the quick trip
32:52You sure?
33:01Come on
33:02here's my concern
33:03is
33:03I'm worried
33:05something happened
33:05on that third trip
33:06to Ray's
33:07with you
33:09There's always
33:10two sides
33:10to every story
33:11and I know
33:13Ray likes to
33:13drink too
33:14right?
33:15But I don't know
33:16what happened
33:16between you
33:18I mean
33:19nothing happened
33:20to me
33:20right?
33:21Mm-hmm
33:21No
33:23Nothing happened
33:24between me
33:24or Ray
33:26Well
33:26so here's the deal
33:29I've had my
33:30crime scene
33:30technicians
33:31go back
33:32and they've been
33:32looking at prints
33:33This is
33:35the light switch
33:36in Ray Neal's bathroom
33:37that's right outside
33:38the door
33:39and that's blood
33:40Okay
33:41Ray Neal's blood
33:43So here's the same
33:45picture
33:45but this is using
33:47different lighting
33:48and they've put
33:49powder on there
33:50and when you
33:51zoom in
33:52your print
33:53is right there
33:55in blood
34:00I can even tell you
34:01which finger it is
34:03that's how
34:03that's how
34:04precise this is
34:07So here's the deal
34:09Carmen
34:10I know
34:11you were there
34:13I'm not watching
34:14your print
34:14in Ray Neal's blood
34:17but this is your chance
34:18to tell me
34:19what actually happened
34:22Explain it to me
34:24because
34:24I can now put
34:25your print
34:26literally in
34:27Ray Neal's blood
34:30which means
34:31you were there
34:32when it died
34:35There's no way
34:36around that
34:38Can you just tell me
34:39what you remember?
34:43Did he do something
34:44to you?
34:47He was trying
34:48to make me have
34:48sex with him
34:52Everything I told you
34:53was the truth
34:53I said for that
34:54because I was a shame
34:55He was trying
34:56to have sex with you?
34:57I'm gay
34:57like I never even
34:58deal with him
34:58sexually
35:00Okay
35:01What was he demanding
35:02from you?
35:03He was saying
35:04that I give him
35:04some
35:04and I said
35:05you know
35:06I'm not gonna do that
35:08Okay
35:09and he's like
35:10he waited for me
35:11to take a hit
35:11because he knows
35:12he started
35:13trying to fumble me
35:15very uncomfortable
35:17Okay
35:39I know this is really
35:41uncomfortable
35:41I'm so sorry
35:42I'm so sorry
35:43I just need
35:44to understand
35:45clearly what happened
36:03He was grinding into me
36:05He was on top of me
36:07He was like
36:08you're gonna give
36:08this up to me
36:10That's what I remember
36:11I'm hearing
36:12I remember his breath
36:12thinking like alcohol
36:15He kept telling me
36:16that I was gonna
36:16give it up to him
36:17that I basically
36:18I owed him
36:21When he was on top
36:22of me
36:22I just stabbed him
36:25Okay
36:26Where'd the knife
36:27come from?
36:28He had it on the dresser
36:30Okay
36:31Do you remember
36:32where you stabbed him?
36:34No
36:34I just stabbed
36:35Well how did he react?
36:38He was like
36:39bitch you stabbed me
36:40and I was shocked
36:42I was shocked
36:43My eyes are big
36:45He comes for me
36:46and I just pushed him
36:48Was he dead
36:48at that point already?
36:49I don't know
36:50Oh
36:51Was he on the bed
36:52or did he fall on the floor?
36:53He fell on the floor
36:56Okay
36:56And I was just looking at him
36:58and I couldn't look at him
37:00anymore
37:01when I threw the car wrong
37:02I was scared
37:04Okay
37:06After you left Raves
37:08where did you go?
37:09I went to the hotel
37:11in Grazleton
37:13Okay
37:14I mean it does sound like
37:16you know
37:16you're remorseful
37:17what happened
37:17and I'm definitely
37:18gonna tell everybody
37:19that you were honest
37:20with me
37:22It's not right
37:24I just
37:24I was in a bad situation
37:26like
37:27If I didn't
37:28defend myself
37:29I know
37:30I know
37:30what was gonna happen
37:32I couldn't let that
37:33happen to me
37:35I don't think
37:35I could live myself
37:37if that would've happened
37:38If it went down
37:41the way you say
37:42how come you didn't
37:43report it?
37:44I was scared
37:45I was just scared
37:46I was
37:46I was on drugs
37:47I didn't think
37:48nobody would believe me
37:50When you left
37:51did you leave
37:52with the crack
37:53that you came for?
37:55Yeah
37:56I had it
37:56I think
37:57You had it?
37:58You remember
37:58how much it was?
38:00No
38:01I do have to charge you
38:02with murder
38:04Okay
38:04And I understand
38:06right now
38:07in your mind
38:08there's a self-defense
38:10issue going on
38:11but I think
38:12that's something
38:13that I'm gonna have
38:14to let the courts
38:14decide on
38:15You understand that?
38:22I understand
38:23Okay
38:24Alright
38:25We'll be back
38:26in just a second
38:26Okay
38:27Okay
38:37When these cases
38:38come to the cold case unit
38:40we never close them
38:42they stay in this active
38:43state always
38:45and we're always
38:46just waiting
38:46for that little spark
38:47that can lead us
38:49in a direction
38:50towards a suspect
38:51and that's what happened
38:53in this case
38:55I just needed
38:56that little piece
38:57to let me focus
38:58on one person
39:00I had a feeling
39:01confronted with the fact
39:03she was probably
39:03gonna at least
39:04change her story
39:07The fingerprint
39:07really did its job
39:09I showed the pictures
39:11instead of just telling her
39:12so she couldn't think
39:13I was bluffing
39:14She came off of it
39:15pretty quickly
39:16after that
39:16I think she had been
39:18carrying this weight
39:19on her
39:19for four or five years
39:21now
39:22and
39:24not that she wanted
39:24to confess
39:25but at the same time
39:26I think it was
39:26a load off of her
39:52That's his arm
39:54He had this little
39:55blue hat
39:55that he used to wear
39:56and he looked like
39:57Paddington one day
39:58and so that name
39:59kind of stuck with him
40:00so when he did
40:02pass away
40:02we had a Paddington bear
40:04and we took the hat
40:05off the bear
40:05and we put it on here
40:06and this is Paddington
40:07and he sits up there
40:09and he chills
40:14That's him
40:15his daughter
40:16and both of his
40:17granddaughters
40:20That was back
40:21in 2016
40:25Yeah, you had to know him
40:26He was an excellent chess player
40:30He would go sometimes
40:31up to the courthouse
40:32and sit with the older man
40:34up there
40:34and play chess
40:37I talked to him
40:38and as a dad
40:39I talked to a son
40:40and tried to tell him
40:42what to do
40:43how to go about life
40:45and things
40:46I loved him
40:48He kept it strictly
40:49old school
40:50loving
40:51family man
40:52you know
40:55We always
40:55get together
40:56either here
40:57in my house
40:58we're going to get together
40:58have fun
40:59laugh
40:59love each other
41:01regardless of whether
41:02you hated each other
41:03two days ago
41:03it's time to eat
41:04it's time to ball
41:05and it's time to have fun
41:06let's love it out
41:07so yes
41:08that is what we do
41:10it's not the same
41:11it's not
41:12it's not the same
41:13without Ray here
41:15my uncle's not here
41:16to tell his story
41:17my uncle
41:17my uncle didn't live
41:19to tell his story
41:19my uncle didn't live
41:20to say anything
41:22someone went to my dad's house
41:24and killed him
41:25for no reason
41:28Michelle was my mom
41:29which was Ray's baby sister
41:33Ray's sister
41:34who found him in his home
41:35died three years later
41:39their bond was just
41:40unbreakable
41:41and my mother
41:42I think
41:43to be honest
41:44my mother died
41:45slowly of a broken heart
41:47she kind of blamed herself
41:48because why did I take him home
41:49I did
41:50I shouldn't have took him home
41:51or what could I have done
41:54Ray passing away in 2019
41:56then his mother passing away
41:58in 2022
41:59and then six months later
42:00his sister passed away
42:02in October of 22
42:05you have to
42:07somehow or another
42:08find yourself
42:10to get through it
42:12we ain't recovered
42:15I know I struggle
42:16my dad struggles
42:18my brother struggles
42:19Phil struggles
42:21we all struggle
42:24on a daily basis
42:26we're just grateful that
42:27you know
42:28it finally came to an end
42:29it was five years waiting
42:31just hoping that
42:32something would happen
42:34and it happened
42:35and got some closure
42:36so we're good
42:37it tells you
42:37but
42:37we don't trust
42:40we're
42:41good you you
42:42you
42:43you
42:44you
42:44you
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