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Tracks and Trails - Season 13 Episode 4 - Kildare
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00:03Today's walk is a day trip for me. I'm traveling an hour from Dublin by train to
00:08discover some of the hidden delights that County Kildare has to offer.
00:13I'm just off the train of Bhaile Aagha Clia go Bhaile Aagha I and today I am on a
00:18canal bank walk from a Thai towards Monster Evan and I'm very excited because
00:22my guest today is a man who's known very well in this part of the world and all
00:26over Ireland of course for his fantastic music and he's going to teach me all
00:30about the rich history of Kildare
01:04A Thai is a market town situated at the meeting of the River Barrow and the Grand Canal in southwest
01:10County Kildare. It dates back to the 12th century and was firstly an Anglo-Norman settlement before
01:16becoming an important stronghold in Ireland. Over the years it has seen a lot of different types of
01:21history from wars to creative history it's been a center for Ireland's oral and musical traditions
01:27so it's no coincidence that my guest today is one of Ireland's well-known musicians Jack Lukeman known
01:34as Jack L was born and bred in this part of the world he has since toured and traveled afar
01:39with
01:39his music and has always returned to County Kildare. Jack is taking me on a walk to discover some of
01:46the
01:46more hidden parts this county has to offer. Jack how are you? Welcome to A Thai.
01:55Gourmangalith. So excited to be here with you in A Thai. Well welcome to the fair town of A Thai
01:59welcome to the People's Park given to A Thai in the 1800s by the Duke of Leinster. Lots more to
02:04see
02:04beautiful scenery on the canal walk and so forth so if you'll... Fantastic well you're the man. Let's do it
02:10let's do it.
02:21We're starting our walk in A Thai and heading out into the countryside to walk along the Barrow Blueway.
02:27The walk takes us from A Thai along the watersides to end at Vicarstown. A Grand Canal grand total of
02:33around 12 kilometers. Jack where are you from exactly in relation to here at the People's Park?
02:41Well just outside A Thai on the Kilkenny Road there's a place called Lochman's Garage which is
02:47my great-grandfather started and he was he won the plowing championship somewhere in the early 1900s and
02:54he was a famous man with a horse and plow and that became him with steam engines and then my
02:59grandfather
03:00took that over and my father and his two brothers kept going and my brother still has it going to
03:07this
03:07day and it's still in the family name so I'm A Thai through and through but I just come from
03:13just outside
03:13of A Thai.
03:22This is absolutely beautiful.
03:24Yes this is the town hall and the square it was built in 1730 and it was the moment where
03:31A Thai
03:31became from being a village it became a town because of the the town hall but now it's the Shackleton
03:37Museum
03:37which is Ernest Shackleton the great Antarctic explorer who did several expeditions to the Antarctic.
03:46He came from out the road in Kilkei and so he's one of the most I suppose world-known A
03:51Thai people
03:52so and also I mean you've got lots of beautiful stuff around the town like the Maid of A Thai
03:57plaques
03:57you've got Johnny Mars from the Smiths his people came from A Thai he's got a plaque over here
04:01Manny from the Stone Roses I'm lucky to have a plaque on Garreter Lane over there which I wrote a
04:06song
04:06about over by the castle on the ground you've got here this beautiful uh it it it mimics the running
04:12of the Barrow and the shape of the Barrow coming from New Ross St Mullins all the way down along
04:19running up to uh Carlow and through Carlow uh the bar is of course part of the Tree Sisters the
04:25Barrow
04:26the Noor and the Shore and uh running up Milford all the way along Bestfield Lock all all locally famous
04:35Levitt's town and of course to the uh town of A Thai and the Barrow line just over here
04:42God it's fantastic isn't it I love how it's such an enduring power isn't it cutting through all the
04:47townlands and how hurt the Goddess Barrow's you know energy endures here the river has been here longer
04:54than anybody can remember you know before any of us were here so it's just lovely to have all these
04:58uh
04:58ancient history and modern history all into one spot
05:04the Queen of Kildare huh yes indeed yeah isn't it a beautiful mural isn't it gorgeous
05:15just a few short steps and we're out into the countryside and onto the river Barrow
05:20and we're out into the river Barrow. Tell me about walking what does walking do for you I've always
05:24found walking and just rambling and just going out into the into nature is a great way of stimulating
05:31that fountain of creativity and uh there's been many songs over the years that have been uh spawned from
05:39that are little just kernels of of ideas you know so uh that's what walking does for me
05:45what's your favorite song you've ever written oh rooftop lullaby is one of those songs that
05:51came to me uh just from nowhere when you're writing a lot of songs you kind of get into a
05:57flow state where
05:58songs just start coming to you and you're not overthinking it and uh I find it very hard to write
06:04when I'm touring you might get an idea but you it is something you need to sit down and kind
06:09of
06:10uh let the mind wander and let the creativity flow so this is where the Barrow meets where the Barrow
06:20and the Canal takes off over here yeah the Grand Canal navigation from Dublin to the River Shannon
06:27has many access points to and from rivers along the way here at the horse bridge the Grand Canal joins
06:34the river Barrow which is also the access point for us for our canal walk
06:39so this is the uh famous local place local landmark the horse bridge where the horses
06:46who were dragging the barges and they would cross over and as you can see the the wall is curved
06:51along
06:51here so that the rope could run along it and they were able to go over here to the canal
06:55and continue
06:56up that way fantastic so it's a famous landmark um back in the day people would come here in the
07:01hot
07:02weather and go swimming here um I'm sure health and safety doesn't allow that anymore but it did
07:07were you ever brave enough to jump in no I was good at looking at people doing it but uh
07:11my brother
07:11used to do it all right too much sense huh too much sense it was never a great swimmer but
07:15uh
07:15it's uh a famous old spot you never know the day is young and the sun is out so who
07:21knows
07:29so as you can see we're approaching rockfield road you have the old hospital uh over yonder and the
07:36old pauper's graveyard is over here uh hospital dating back the famine times and you have this here where
07:44you have the marks of the rope from the horses dragging the barges along and it ingrained into
07:52the actual stone which shows you how much work must have went on that over time it actually was able
07:59to do what an angle grinder would do today but just with rope that it was able to cut into
08:02the stone
08:03isn't that amazing quite stunning yeah yeah it's a great uh mark of time
08:11i love the canal because it's it's slow it almost slows everything it has a very kind of passive feel
08:16to it it slows time down a bit so how do you know when a song is finished well as
08:28they say a song is
08:29never finished it's abandoned you kind of have to you have to know when something is cooked i suppose it's
08:34like being a good chef you know when not to overcook something and when it's just just fresh enough
08:41to take and record that's that's uh that that that only comes from doing it for years and knowing
08:47i suppose when something is cooked but then when you take it on the road and you play it in
08:51front of an
08:52audience you kind of go why didn't i do this or why didn't i do that but that's just the
08:56nature of
08:57it i've but i have recorded albums with a kind of an audience in the room to try and bring
09:02more out
09:02the songs in that kind of way okay but uh ultimately live and studio are just two very
09:10different things and usually the first couple of takes of a song are as good as the the 50th take
09:16in
09:16a studio uh just because it has a freshness to it especially when musicians maybe are playing it for
09:21the first time a lot of the great recordings are like that if you look back through them the beatles
09:26would do a whole half an album in a day or a whole album in a day and those songs
09:30have stood up for you
09:32know for all these years so it makes you wonder uh overthinking things can be a big problem when it
09:40comes to creativity
10:05kildare sports partnership have been working at making the walks around the county as accessible as
10:09possible the trails are becoming more and more available to everyone jack isn't fantastic to
10:17see more and more places become more inclusivity conscious absolutely and this area is this is
10:23where my people come from and to see all this here is absolutely stunning look at this hey guys how
10:31you
10:31doing how are you we'll have to we'll have to get out on the bikes the next day what do
10:37you think how
10:38you doing wow that's so cool it's great isn't it absolutely yeah it's great to see people out and
10:44about and taking in all this fresh air and by the beautiful and relaxing canal it's so important so
10:51important for all of our mental health well-being but it's especially exciting for you because you have a
10:57tie to this place yes just across the road here is where uh my grandfather comes from and uh my
11:04great
11:05uncle lived there for years the kios so uh just across the road here so it's it's fast i know
11:09this
11:10was pure country back in that time so to see it rejuvenated with cafes around here and people using this
11:17walkway which didn't really exist uh properly like this so it's uh fascinating and uh really heartwarming i
11:25have to say to see it uh being used and enjoyed yes we're going towards vicarstown now which is the
11:33end of our walk today and i can't believe the amount of history and stuff stories to learn here and
11:39us
11:39being so close to dublin it was a real eye-opener for me but i have to ask you what
11:43has been your
11:44highlight of the day well it's been a trip down memory lane for me from the park in the thai
11:49uh to
11:51walking along the canal where where my mother's side of the family the cure has come from seeing
11:54all that so it's been it's been an assortment of things but it's just been lovely to to be able
11:59to
11:59show you around and show you all these beautiful places have you had a favorite place yourself or
12:03oh thanks well i i really enjoyed seeing people of all different kind of abilities out on the blue
12:09eye i thought that was so special it's great to see people out enjoying ireland and all she has to
12:14offer and uh yeah i think that you're going to be seeing an awful lot more of me here now
12:18i think jack
12:19you're welcome anytime you can see all the beautiful things we have to offer down here so
12:23you're welcome anytime oh that's an offer i'm going to take you up on absolutely
12:33thamae agunta kildare today i am in kildare an area that is famous of course for its luscious green
12:39plains and for all of the history that goes with that and i'm looking forward to hearing those stories
12:43from a local voice
12:46county kildare has a long history of industry and barley crop farming that goes back generations
12:53set amid luscious farming and arable landscapes as well as various water routes kildare offers
12:59plenty of walking hiking and trekking opportunities county kildare is home to monaster evan and to the
13:06grand canal which at one time was a bustling industrial and passenger transport route and is now used for
13:11leisure purposes celine burn is a soprano from kildare she is recognized both nationally and
13:18internationally as one of opera's great stars and has performed in all of the major opera houses around
13:23the world she was born grew up in and still lives in county kildare and is the perfect guest to
13:30show me
13:30around celine burn how are you good hey so good to see you and welcome to kildare my home county
13:38i know
13:39i've been dying now to get here because obviously so famous the home of saint bridget the plains of
13:44kildare we'll have loads to talk about and the walkway here it's brilliant yeah this is new yeah it's
13:49brilliant okay well we better get cracking cool today's trail starts at monister evan and runs alongside
13:58the grand canal to finish at roberts town the total route is 24 kilometers and takes around four hours
14:04we're doing most of it on foot but we're taking the final section by barge
14:10so we are in your home turf your home county yeah yeah in kildare monister evan yeah it's lovely
14:16you know it was formed in the 15th century by saint evan and the monastery was then you know where
14:23moore
14:23abbey is yeah yeah so that was um that was given to the moore family actually moore street in dublin
14:29is
14:29called after the moore family but i didn't realize that john mcormach count john mcormach of course
14:34lived in moore abbey and i've done a few concerts there so i'd know the place well the legendary john
14:39mcormach yeah it was the quintessential sound i suppose absolutely like the gramophone yeah he was
14:45all his recordings on gramophone and everything so two great singers from kildare huh that's it
14:51go on you go there you go now the kayakers are coming look i know it's great it is actually
15:04it's
15:04so lovely to see the canal and youth like this yes yeah have you ever kayaks i have actually that
15:11should be our next date now it's really go for a bit of a kayak yeah no i don't think
15:14so i'd rather
15:15get in there now and swim yeah well listen either or it's a definitely different perspective from what
15:19we're getting there in the kayak isn't it see the wheel on the top like years ago that would have
15:24been a drawbridge and a pulley um with a pulley system yeah god it is just so peaceful to be
15:43walking
15:43by the canal isn't it oh i love it it's so nice what i didn't realize before i came here
15:49and i was
15:49doing a little bit of reading is that actually there's a really strong history of distilling
15:54and uh whiskey making in here i suppose it's no wonder because the land is so good well when we
15:59passed by here the distillery here up here and it's like 200 years ago that would have been a storehouse
16:06for barley and wheat and a lot of barges came from dublin yeah especially from the guinness storehouse
16:12and stuff all the way to shannon and when we get to roberts town there you go uh my granddad
16:18used to
16:18work on the barges it's funny isn't it like we forget the function of the canals really because
16:26you know they're kind of maybe not as important once the trains came into play in dublin but they
16:30were so integral yeah because they brought a lot of people yeah people moving around and goods moving
16:35around and to how ireland worked you know in in the 18th century he's coming after us
16:43i love the way that this is now this new blue way is actually kind of giving us a chance
16:48to actually
16:49go back in time so as to speak but also you know i think it's brilliant that we can go
16:54on the canal
16:54again and i think for the blue way to walk on the canal and cycle and you know go back
16:59to that kind
17:00of way of living is it's nice because if people are getting out more which is brilliant like i lost
17:05weight and i might walk and more and everything like that well it's definitely a new perspective
17:09on the canals isn't it hi
17:21i'm getting near at home now oh are you well there's a lot of action going on here i think
17:25yeah it's double locks so it's not that many there's not that many double locks on the canal
17:30okay so explain that to me so you have a system here where normally one lock opens and it's just
17:35basically a double lock so the two locks are opening to let the boat go up i understand because
17:42the water level has to rise for the boat to go up okay and there's a steep drop so have
17:47to do
17:47with an incline here we sit down on the swing beam okay and have a look
17:57we're sitting on a lock which you say is a big
18:01pastime of earth yeah well this is lock 23 my favorite lock is lock three which is um in this
18:08on the canal and during covert i used to walk a lot and cycle a lot at the canal and
18:14actually when my
18:15um dad was diagnosed with terminal cancer i am the first thing i did was get on my bike cycle
18:22in
18:23and sit on the lock and i just like the peaceful just element of it and and when i was
18:29growing up my
18:30dad used to bring us to the lock and used to sit us on the on swing beam and get
18:35us an owl and when
18:37my kids were smaller and we'd get like a takeaway or something like that and i'd bring them to the
18:42canal and i put them up on the swing beam and they'd have a little picnic and yeah so it
18:47brings back
18:48a lot of memories nostalgic that's lovely that's a lovely memory to have of your dad and your kids and
18:54yes being outdoors is a great way of processing emotions but you're a musician yeah so you kind
19:02of have also another way of processing emotions yeah i mean for my uh singing my art form it's a
19:07great way of expression so i love the fact that i love my job i love what i do i've
19:13always loved the
19:14stage i've always loved performing i never thought it would be a career actually it was something that was
19:19kind of i thought that would never happen because um i thought growing up because i'd had no idea of
19:25classical music i thought the only way to be on stage is to be a west end star or something
19:29like
19:29that and you have to be able to sing dance and act and i can't dance two left feet um
19:33so i think for me
19:36singing has always been an escapism i think it was a hobby to develop into a career because i studied
19:42music went on to my masters then i did competitions winning the maria callas in 2008 international
19:48sing competition and then from there that gave me a platform to be invited to different comp different
19:53um concerts and and then yeah one thing led to another and i love what i do in ireland now
20:00we all
20:00love to sing a few songs but that's usually and you know when you're in company or whatever i mean
20:05what
20:05you're doing is totally different from that and i don't think a lot of people you know know maybe first
20:10of all the work uh and and dedication that goes into that but all yeah work hard yeah yeah but
20:17also as well you're saying that like in ireland and you go out and you go and sing a song
20:20like i
20:20remember when i was training and everything and my dad said like oh she's studying voice and all that
20:24you know and then i'd go up to the pub and he'd say sing a song there witty because my
20:28nickname is
20:29witty and i'd be like what do i sing dad and he goes ah whatever you want so i'd sing
20:33i'm your baby and he's like no no no real song a real song a real song a real song
20:38so none of that
20:39wow what's so well when he says a real song yeah oh he just wanted you know an irish song
20:45or
20:45yeah an irish bit of danny boy he loved the old danny boy oh danny boy
20:50the pipes the pipes the pipes are calling from glen to glen and down the mountain side
21:03the summer's gone and all the flowers are dying tis you tis you must go and i must find
21:20you
21:24now we're heading to roberts town and i know you have a big tie to the place but what would
21:28you
21:29think about getting another little perspective on this walk and heading on this barge what do you
21:33think i think that'd be great because i don't like walking hi how are you welcome aboard
21:44so tell me about your connection with roberts town and of course the barges
21:48and when my grand my great grandfather and great grandmother pat and rose burn were um originally
21:57from roberts town their house is the first house the little cottage beside the school that's still
22:02there and my grandfather william their son was one of ten children who was born in that house and as
22:11he
22:11grew up along with his siblings they worked in the local hotel and he worked there but he also worked
22:16on
22:17the barges so he unloaded barley rye wheat he worked for a guinness storehouse so and then he
22:23also worked on a farm where my grandmother also worked and they met on the farm and then they moved
22:31to the heavey farm in cara subsequently had their family of 11 children one of which was my father
22:38and then we grew up on that land and we built all on that land as well so it all
22:43rooted from roberts
22:45town okay and we're nearly there you're a true born kildare woman hi the woman out of the bog but
22:50you can't take the bog out of the woman well there you go you're equal parts bog and opera is
22:53that fair
22:54to say yeah here i am look on a barge in kildare on my way to roberts town and last
23:00week i was on a boat
23:02on the sea in kusadasi and i'm just as happy here as i was last week and this is just
23:09beautiful
23:13celine we're pulling into your ancestral home so i want to know what was your highlight from today's
23:18walk i loved everything to be fair i loved everything i love the chats i love meeting you i
23:24love chatting with you and but if i was forced to pick something i think it would be when uh
23:30we were at
23:30the the double lock i really and i really enjoyed that at lock 23 it was just really nice very
23:35nostalgic and uh yeah i just i enjoyed that thank you so much oh well thank you so much and
23:41you've
23:41stolen my favorite thing because my favorite thing was listening to you sing danny boy that was gorgeous
23:45i really i'll be i'll be singing that in my head now for the rest of the week for a
23:49great
24:18now back
24:27Transcription by CastingWords
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