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The Last Word with Lawrence ODonnell - Season 13 - Episode 46
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00:00All right that's going to do it for me for now but now it's time for the last word with
00:03the great Lawrence O'Donnell. Good evening Lawrence. Good evening Rachel. This is one of those nights where some very hard
00:10decisions have to be made of what can actually be fit into this hour of television and this is what
00:17I'm so grateful that you're on for an hour before I am because I'm going to be able to cover
00:22some ground that wasn't in your hour as we try to sort out this avalanche of news coming out.
00:30us over the weekend. Yeah I have left at least one guest sitting in a lit well lit room wearing
00:37makeup and not getting on television in the past hour as we have been covering breaking news over the course
00:42of this hour. Yeah it's it's. Which I'm very sorry. Well but it's it's one of the things that that
00:48everyone knows we have to deal with on especially during war coverage as we're in now. Yeah. Yeah. Thanks Lawrence.
00:55Appreciate it. Thanks Richard. Thank you.
00:58Well Donald Trump is demanding something he has never seen. Donald Trump is demanding something no president in his lifetime
01:05has ever achieved. Unconditional surrender. On Friday morning at 8 50 a.m. Donald Trump demanded Iran's unconditional surrender in
01:16a social media post.
01:18The last time the United States of America accepted an unconditional surrender. It took an atomic bomb to get it.
01:28In fact two of them. After President Harry Truman became the first and only person in world history to use
01:35nuclear weapons against Japan first in Hiroshima and three days later in Nagasaki Emperor Hirohito announced Japan's unconditional surrender.
01:44Harry Truman had already accepted Germany's unconditional surrender in World War II three months earlier. No American president has demanded
01:54or accepted an unconditional surrender at the end of an American war since the year before Donald Trump was born.
02:03Again.
02:0481 years ago.
02:05Eighty-one years ago at the end of World War II.
02:08Anyone who has witnessed a war during a war during Donald Trump's lifetime knows that the unconditional surrender of Iran
02:14is impossible.
02:17Everyone on Wall Street knew that over the weekend when markets began to adjust negatively to a, an anticipated long
02:25term Trump war in pursuit of the impossible unconditional surrender.
02:32surrender. And so, of course, oil prices skyrocketed. The stock market crashed,
02:38and Donald Trump today offered his unconditional surrender. Donald Trump is the first American
02:45wartime president ruled by the stock market and the oil market. In a phone call with a CBS News
02:52reporter today, Donald Trump said, I think the war is very complete. He said that during stock
03:01market trading in the hope of preventing a collapse, Donald Trump didn't mention unconditional
03:07surrender again today. And because it was Donald Trump who said unconditional surrender on Friday
03:14morning, we knew there was no chance of even Donald Trump holding on to the nonsensical demand
03:22of unconditional surrender. When President Franklin Delano Roosevelt announced publicly during World
03:30War II that the only peace terms that the United States of America would accept from Germany and
03:36Japan was unconditional surrender, the world knew that Franklin Roosevelt meant those two words.
03:45And everyone in the world, other than the German and Japanese regimes, knew that they could trust
03:53those presidential words as fact, as a prediction of what exactly was going to happen. The world knew
04:02from that moment on how World War II was going to end. They didn't know how long it was going
04:09to last,
04:09but they knew World War II was going to end in unconditional surrender because the president of the United
04:18States said so. And now the world knows the words of the current president of the United States have
04:24no meaning at all. 31 hours after Donald Trump demanded unconditional surrender, in another social media
04:32post, Donald Trump said, we've already won! Exclamation point. Donald Trump doesn't even pay attention to the
04:41words of the words of Donald Trump. Unconditional surrender Friday morning. We've already won Saturday
04:46afternoon. No unconditional surrender. As oil prices were skyrocketing over the weekend, Donald Trump said
04:53that higher oil prices were, quote, a very small price to pay for USA. Well, it is certainly a smaller
05:02price
05:03to pay than the lives of the members of the American military that have been lost in Donald Trump's first
05:10days of Donald Trump's war. Donald Trump made no attempt to look presidential since he doesn't
05:17actually know what that looks like when he attended the dignified transfer of the bodies of the first
05:25six soldiers killed in his war. And he didn't remember those soldiers the next day when he wrote about
05:33what he called, quote, a very small price to pay for USA. Donald Trump ended his public day today by
05:43stepping up to a microphone at one of his golf resorts in Florida, the kind of place where no other
05:49president has ever set foot on the tenth day of a war. From the start, Donald Trump has refused to
05:56say how
05:56long his war would last. Donald Trump had to do that because he knew he might have to surrender at
06:04any
06:04time. And now that his surrender has come, he can claim that it's because his war is going so well
06:12that he can just end it. And that is, of course, exactly what he did today.
06:19We're ahead of our initial timeline by a lot. It's going to be ended soon.
06:24Are you thinking this week it will be over? No, but soon. Are you talking about days?
06:27I think soon. Okay. And with respect to... Very soon.
06:31Donald Trump's day began today with the news that Iran has a new supreme leader who was the son of
06:37the supreme leader who was killed on the first day of Donald Trump's war. So Donald Trump has traded an
06:4286-year-old Ayatollah Khomeini for a 56-year-old Ayatollah Khomeini, who is reported to be even more
06:51hard-line than his father, which makes Donald Trump's Friday morning idea of unconditional
06:56surrender even more impossible. And when Donald Trump demanded unconditional surrender with an
07:02exclamation point on Friday morning, he also, in the same social media post, demanded the selection
07:08of a great and acceptable leader in Iran. Today, Donald Trump said he was disappointed
07:16in the choice of Iran's new supreme leader. That was his word. Disappointed. But Donald Trump did not
07:24dare to repeat his demand for unconditional surrender of that new supreme leader. Before stepping up to
07:31the microphone at his golf resort today, Donald Trump made phone calls to individual members of
07:36the media in a desperate attempt to communicate something positive to the stock market, the real
07:41bosses of Donald Trump's war. One of those calls was to Fox's Brian Kilmeade, who quoted Donald Trump
07:49on Fox and Friends this morning, telling him, quote, these ships should go through the Strait of Hormuz
07:55and show some guts. There's nothing to be afraid of. Show some guts. 20% of the world's oil shipments
08:04passed through the Strait of Hormuz, which has now become far too dangerous for safe passage. Shipping traffic
08:12has dropped by at least 90% in the Strait or more. And Donald Trump's solution to that is for
08:19everyone on those
08:20oil tankers to just be brave. You know, like him. Donald Trump wants the captains and crews of those ships
08:29to be brave and put
08:30themselves in the line of fire, put themselves in harm's way. Just call their families at home around the world
08:37and tell
08:37them, wish me luck. We are bravely going through the Strait today because Donald Trump told us to show some
08:44guts.
08:45Donald Trump wants the noncombatants on commercial vessels to do something that no one in the Trump clan has ever
08:54done.
08:55Enter a war zone. Show some guts. How about 19-year-old Barron Trump, who is turning 20 in 11
09:04days? As I reported on this
09:07program last week, all four of President Franklin D. Roosevelt's sons served in the military in World War II, while
09:13their father
09:14served as commander in chief until his death in office weeks before Germany's unconditional surrender. It was unthinkable then.
09:22For a president's son not to serve in that president's war. And World War II was not a war of
09:30Franklin
09:30Roosevelt's choosing. We entered World War II only after Japan declared war on the United States and then Germany
09:36declared war in the United States. But because World War II was already underway in Europe in 1939, John
09:43Kennedy decided not to go to Yale Law School after his Harvard graduation and instead joined the Navy months
09:53before the United States entered World War II. Jack Kennedy, the future brother, the future president's
10:01older brother, Joe Kennedy, dropped out of Harvard Law School to become a pilot in World War II.
10:09Joe Kennedy's plane went down and he was killed in action in Europe. Such was the call of duty in
10:17those
10:17days that the sons of presidents, the sons of cabinet members, the sons of ambassadors, the sons of
10:23generals, along with the sons of laborers and factory workers, all showed some guts, as Donald Trump would
10:29put it, and rushed toward the sound of the guns. In fact, almost all Harvard students dropped out during World
10:36War II to serve in the military. So what about Baron Trump? Why hasn't he left college like almost every
10:44Harvard
10:44student did during World War II to fight in his father Donald Trump's war? And I mention Harvard
10:50specifically because that is the institution of higher learning in America that Donald Trump seems to
10:55hate the most. It is the institution that seems to fill him with a raging jealousy for reasons known only
11:01to
11:02his pathologically insecure psyche. Of the 1,000 students admitted to the Harvard class of 1944
11:12before World War II started, only 19 graduated in 1944. That's how much America's universities emptied out
11:23as students followed what they felt was their call of duty into war.
11:29No one, Donald Trump, no one in the Trump family has ever done anything like that in the entire
11:37history of the Klan. Not one Trump. Not one. No Trump has ever attended a military funeral of a family
11:47member. And now it's Barron Trump's turn to refuse to go to war while his father sends young men and
11:53women his age into that war. Why doesn't Barron Trump do what all those Harvard students did
12:03during World War II? Why doesn't he leave college now and go join his father's war? Why doesn't Barron
12:10Trump donate his services as a crew member on an oil tanker in the Strait of Hormuz? He doesn't even
12:17have to join the military for that. His father said there's nothing to be afraid of. Does his mother
12:21agree with that? Does she think there's nothing to be afraid of for her son on one of those oil
12:26tankers?
12:27Donald Trump said these ships should go through the Strait of Hormuz and show some guts there's nothing to
12:34be afraid of. Well, let's prove there's nothing to be afraid of by putting Barron on the deck of one
12:40of those ships. Because we know the only place Donald Trump would allow Barron to go, the only
12:45place where Barron Trump's mother would ever allow him to go is a place where there's nothing to be
12:50afraid of. Donald Trump's other sons appear to be playing their part in their father's war by
12:58trying to become war profiteers. There was nothing more loathsome in the United States during World
13:05War II than war profiteering. Harry Truman became president of the United States because of his
13:12crusade against war profiteering. Senator Harry Truman studied war contracts more than any other
13:19senator searching for illegitimate profiteering. He eventually became the chairman of a special
13:24senate committee to investigate war profiteering. Senator Truman's investigations were at first a minor
13:31irritant to President Franklin Roosevelt, who was worried about anything that might inhibit
13:36America's industrial giants like the auto industry, which was then converting their factories for the
13:42manufacture of aircraft and tanks. But soon President Roosevelt came to appreciate Senator
13:47Truman's policing of the war contracts and Senator Truman's condemnations of any war profiteers
13:55that his investigations exposed. Imagine Donald Trump appreciating congressional investigations of
14:03potential corruption in the war contracts that he awards, he personally awards, he personally interferes
14:12with and delivers to the companies he wants to deliver those awards to. Franklin Roosevelt actually
14:20appreciated Harry Truman's investigations and condemnations of war profiteering so much that
14:28President Roosevelt chose Harry Truman to run with him as his vice presidential nominee as President
14:34Roosevelt ran for his final reelection campaign during World War II. Harry Truman then became president
14:44after President Roosevelt died in office. Harry Truman would hate what the Wall Street Journal is now
14:52reporting about Donald Trump and his sons. The Wall Street Journal reports Eric Trump and Donald Trump Jr.,
14:58the president's sons, are backing a new drone company that is vying to meet fresh demand from the Pentagon
15:04and fill a hole left by the administration's ban on new Chinese drones in the U.S.
15:10Power Us, a drone roll-up company based in West Palm Beach, Florida, is merging with a publicly traded
15:15golf course holding company backed by the Trumps. Power Us executives said investors in the deal include
15:23one of the Trump's investment vehicles, American Ventures and Unusual Machines, a drone components
15:30company where Donald Trump Jr. is a shareholder and advisory board member. The deal brings deeper
15:35involvement by the Trump family into a multi-billion dollar sector that has new opportunities
15:41for growth following changes imposed by the Trump administration. Those include the Pentagon's emphasis
15:47on large-scale rapid adoption of small drones. When Donald Trump started his war, he called it a war. He
15:55called it a war multiple times and that is what it is. Donald Trump's Secretary of Defense also called it
16:01a war
16:02when the war began, which he especially loved doing since he falsely calls himself the Secretary
16:09of War. But now that Donald Trump realizes that Americans don't like war and maybe being reminded
16:15that he campaigned against war when he was running for president, Donald Trump is twisting the language
16:21to avoid the word war. I mean, this was an excursion that a lot of people wouldn't have done.
16:32An excursion. That's his latest description of his war today. An excursion.
16:40Donald Trump finds new ways to dishonor the war dead. A silly hat and now an excursion.
16:50It's one thing to die in a war whose objective the president cannot explain. Americans have done that
16:57before and have done it since Vietnam. But to die in an excursion, to call it an excursion before the
17:09families have even had the funerals. To struggle to find language that demeans those soldiers' sacrifice
17:18in service to his desperate political needs is a uniquely Trumpian moment in the American presidency.
17:28Tonight, there was another dignified transfer at Dover Air Force Base for Army Sergeant Benjamin
17:35Pennington, 26 years old, of Glendale, Kentucky.
17:42Donald Trump wasn't there. Donald Trump did not attend. But he did attend a fundraiser for House
17:52Speaker Mike Johnson today in Florida at Donald Trump's golf resort there. And if you're paging
18:01through the history books trying to find the president who went to a political fundraiser at a
18:06golf club on the 10th day of a war, you can stop right now. Only the guy who said,
18:14show some guts there's nothing to be afraid of, would show his guts by going to a fundraiser
18:20instead of the second dignified transfer of his war of choosing.
18:31Senator Sheldon Whitehouse will join us after this break.
18:39Today, global oil prices continue to surge as Donald Trump's war with Iran continues to disrupt energy
18:45markets and the global economy. Oil briefly spiked to nearly $120 a barrel overnight before coming back
18:52down during the day. The world's largest economies held an emergency meeting of the G7 today to discuss
18:58whether they may need to release emergency reserves to stabilize the oil and gas markets.
19:03CNBC reports about 20 percent of the world's oil supply is being disrupted by Donald Trump's war
19:09with traffic in the Strait of Hormuz, just south of Iran, at a standstill. Joining us now is
19:15Democratic Senator Sheldon Whitehouse of Rhode Island. He's a member of the Senate Judiciary Committee and the
19:19Senate Finance Committee. Senator, thank you very much for joining us tonight. The outcome with the
19:28oil markets was one of the predictable effects of this war, but Donald Trump seems to have been taken
19:36by surprise by it. Yeah, and the two big winners from this big surprise that he was the only person
19:45not
19:45to see are his big oil billionaire cronies who have seen the price of their product go through the roof.
19:55One of the things that's notable is that American oil producers who are selling oil to Americans
20:02raise their prices when foreign issues change the international oil market. Their cost of production
20:12hasn't changed, so they're going to make a fortune. And of course, the other big winner is Vladimir Putin,
20:19who is winning not only because Trump released him from sanctions so that he can get more revenue.
20:26Oil prices are up, so the spigot of money to keep his war machine against Ukraine going
20:31is flipped wide open. And the arms that we have been providing to Ukraine are now being spent
20:40in Iran, and that lowers the overall supply, throw in other needs. And I'm sure we'll shortly see
20:49Hegseth and others saying, well, we'd love to help Ukraine, but we simply don't have
20:53the war material any longer. So Putin's number one goal has been to succeed at annexing Ukraine by
21:03violence. And he's also the one person in the world to whom President Trump insists on showing
21:11submission, submissiveness, you know, and not try to be the dominant person in the relationship. He's the
21:20submissive in this relationship. So there is pain all around economically from the decision Trump
21:30evidently didn't see the consequences of, except in those two corners of Trump allies.
21:39So Donald Trump spent some time on the phone with Vladimir Putin today. What could that possibly have
21:43been about? Yeah. Nothing good for Ukraine, just to begin with. And as you know, there is a long
21:54connection between Trump and Russia. Trump likes to call it the Trump-Russia hoax. But as you know
22:01better than anyone, Lawrence, when Trump uses the word hoax, it's his verbal tell for something that is
22:07absolutely true. So Trump-Russia has been a long, long standing thing. We do not fully understand it
22:16yet. There's also a Russia-Epstein connection that we don't fully understand yet, which makes Trump-Russia
22:24and Trump-Epstein more of a complicated triangle of Trump-Russia-Epstein. But I would be very interested to
22:31know what took place in that conversation between him and President Putin. Nothing good for Ukraine,
22:38I'm sure. So Donald Trump never announced either an objective or a timeline at the beginning of his
22:46war, which seems to leave it open to him to decide exactly when his war ends, which might mean that
22:54the
22:55stock market will tell him when his war ends. Yeah, you know, I think it's become his style to try
23:01to
23:01play things fast and loose and keep everybody guessing, which is fine if you are, you know, running a casino
23:10or selling yourself as a TV host on an entertainment show. But when you've got the reputation of the
23:18United States, when you've got the lives of American service members, and when you've got massive economic
23:26consequences for American families all on the line, you'd like to think that he would have put the effort in
23:33to
23:33thinking it through a little bit.
23:37And as we go forward, Donald Trump's notion of unconditional surrender, I'm sure he'll never bring it up again,
23:45and it'll just be forgotten. But he obviously has no idea what that even looks like. But we're certainly
23:53not any closer to that impossible dream after the new leadership choice in Iran.
23:59No, in fact, you know, Iran has had an enormous amount of destruction wreaked on its traditional
24:11military apparatus. There's no doubt about that. But clearly, the spirit of the Iranian extremists has
24:19not been broken. When they put the Ayatollahs even more aggressive and conservative son in as his
24:26replacement, there's no sign of looking unconditionally surrendering there. And they have operatives all
24:34around the world. They have drone technology that is very inexpensive. And believe it or not, there's
24:43been news reporting by the Washington Post that Vladimir Putin, the Russians, have been helping the
24:50Iranians target American service members. I wonder if that came up in the conversation between Trump
24:57and Putin, that Putin is actually helping Iran kill our service members. Ordinarily, that would be the
25:04kind of thing that would irritate an American president, maybe even anger him, maybe even put
25:09some real pressure on Putin to knock it off. But whatever he has on Putin, that has not happened.
25:16Senator Sheldon Whitehouse, thank you very much for starting off our discussions tonight.
25:20Thank you. Coming up, the Trump Justice Department has released more of the Epstein files as it's
25:27required to do under the law passed by our next guest, Congressman Ro Khanna. That's next.
25:36Donald Trump's Justice Department released more of the Epstein files, including notes from FBI
25:43interviews with a woman who said she was sexually assaulted by Donald Trump when she was 13 years old.
25:50It is unclear, unclear how fully the FBI investigated her claims and Donald Trump has denied any
25:57wrongdoing linked to Epstein. According to an MSNOW analysis of the 20 newly released documents,
26:05which comprise fewer than a thousand pages, notwithstanding the small size of the production
26:11and the Justice Department's repeated assurances that it would protect victim safety and privacy,
26:16MSNOW found the first and or last names of at least 21 known or suspected survivors. Some of these names
26:26were left unredacted multiple times. Epstein survivor Danielle Bensky said this on this network earlier today.
26:36We've had so many conversations with the Democrats, the Republicans. We're in offices and we're
26:43constantly saying how important the redaction process is and getting it right is. And you would
26:49think that after twice already, especially after the last release where, you know, our lawyers talk to
26:56them, everybody's, you know, there's been so much conversation around this topic. And then to see
27:01it yet again on Friday or Thursday, I believe it was, um, is just, it's really beyond, I mean,
27:07frustrating puts it so mildly. It's gutting.
27:11In a statement, House Oversight Committee Democrats said, let's be clear, this White House cover-up is
27:18ongoing. Millions of pages still remain concealed from the public and our committee. We will get
27:24answers when Pam Bondi appears before our committee under oath. Joining us now is Democratic Congressman
27:31Rokano of California. He's a member of the House Oversight Committee. Let me begin with what we just heard,
27:37uh, from yet another survivor about the redactions problem. I don't even know what to call it. That,
27:44that this Trump Justice Department could continue to put out material that does not have their names
27:50redacted. It's heartless. And these survivors are reliving their trauma. They're being victimized
27:57a second time. And it's preventable. Bradley Edwards, who's been on your program, who you introduced,
28:03he has been offering to go to the DOJ to help set up the, uh, protocols. Uh, he said, let
28:10me get the
28:11other survivors lawyers in there. And they are not involving them. I mean, yeah, they'll return an
28:17email, but it takes, uh, Bradley Edwards barraging the DOJ. And it just shows a total callousness.
28:23Meanwhile, they're covering up for the president. I mean, they're covering up in terms of at least his
28:29embarrassment and not releasing these three files that they were forced to release. And they're
28:32covering up for people who actually abused these, uh, girls. So millions of Epstein file documents
28:39still not released, which just, I assume means your crusade on this continues.
28:45It continues because it's personal because these survivors have sat in my office. They've sat in
28:50Thomas Massey's office. They were abused. They were raped and they want justice. And the half of the
28:56files that are out proves to the country that what we were talking about was not a hoax, that some
29:01of
29:01the most powerful people are involved. And the worst stuff is still in these files that the names of
29:07some of these people, which have been scrubbed by, uh, Donald Trump's FBI. But look, here's why people
29:12shouldn't give up hope because when people cover it, when people journalists, uh, make a big deal of it,
29:18then suddenly Pambani relents and they would get 10,000 more files, 40,000 more files. So we need to
29:25just be
29:25on this, uh, until we can get a judge to, to order the release of the rest of the files.
29:30And of course, Donald Trump launches wars in Venezuela or Iran to try to deflect from this,
29:35uh, among other reasons. Uh, the, the, the Pam Bondi testimony that I just referred to,
29:41I know people in the audience out there are thinking, oh, okay, so, so the attorney general
29:45is going to come to the committee and do her usual insult comedian bad act in front of your
29:51committee. Is that the way it's going to go?
29:52It won't. And it's so disrespectful seeing her do that when survivors are there,
29:56but this time she's not going to be able to go just insult me or insult Robert Garcia.
30:01She's going to be deposed and she's going to be.
30:03So the deposition is completely different from what people have grown accustomed to
30:08as a congressional hearing with the attorney general.
30:11Completely different because the people asking her the questions are going to be qualified lawyers.
30:16They're going to get an hour, not five minutes. She's going to have to answer those questions
30:21under oath, not just respond with barbs at members of Congress. And this is why it was so important
30:26what Nancy Mace, myself, Robert Garcia did. I mean, we, we got 24 to 19. We won that vote
30:34to subpoena Pam Bondi to be under oath. And she's going to have to explain why were these three files
30:39covered up that involved Donald Trump? Why are half the files still redacted, uh, and not being
30:45shown to the American people? Why was there the prison transfer for Ghislaine Maxwell? There's a
30:51lot she has to explain. And by the way, the next president can prosecute her. Now, maybe Trump
30:55preemptively pardons her, uh, but Trump is not known to stick around with people who are political
31:00liabilities. Yeah. There's real legal liability for her in under oath testimony on this matter.
31:07And it's finally going to be forcing her to answer the questions. They ask her,
31:12why is the file still redacted? She says, well, Thomas Massey, uh, you, you don't know what
31:17you're talking about. Now she's going to have to answer yes or no under oath. It is one of the
31:21most significant moments when we're going to get her under oath. Congressman Ro Khanna,
31:25thank you very much for joining us tonight. And coming up, we'll take a look at Donald Trump's
31:30new choice for secretary of Homeland Security after his first choice has gone wherever she's gone.
31:39That's next.
31:45Speaking of war profiteering, Donald Trump's choice to be the next secretary of the Department of
31:50Homeland Security, Republican Senator Mark Wayne Mullen of Oklahoma has made some interesting stock
31:55trades this year. The Daily Beast reports five days before military action in Venezuela,
32:01Mullen purchased substantial positions in defense contractor, RTX Corp and oil giants,
32:07Chevron and ConocoPhillips, according to capital trades based on those federal disclosure filings
32:14and publicly available share price data. Mullen made up to $35,000 from the trio of positions by
32:22Monday. Senator Mullen is a member of the Senate Armed Services Committee with access to non public
32:27information about U.S. military operations. After buying Chevron, Mark Wayne Mullen then publicly urged
32:35others to buy the stock he already bought without publicly disclosing that he bought that stock.
32:43Senator Mullen said this on CNBC.
32:48I mean, look at Chevron. We've had relationships in Venezuela for four years. The problem was,
32:55this is under Maduro, it really became uninvestable. Once that stabilizes, every major company is going to
33:02be buying to get involved in that area because there's a tremendous amount of opportunity for the
33:09company and for their shareholders. Senator Mullen's confirmation hearing will be in the Senate Homeland Security
33:17Committee, which is chaired by Republican Senator Rand Paul of Kentucky. The Daily Beast reports,
33:22during a breakfast in Tulsa, Oklahoma last month, Mullen voiced his frustration with Senator Rand Paul.
33:28Rand Paul's a freaking snake, Mullen said. Joining us now is Garrett Graff,
33:34journalist and historian who covers federal law enforcement. Garrett, thank you very much for
33:39joining us tonight. So, first of all, is Mark Wayne Mullen an upgrade from Kristi Noem?
33:48Not at all. And I think this is one of the things that it's easy to look past because I
33:53think the
33:54whole country is taking a deep breath of relief that Kristi Noem is out atop DHS. However, it's worth
34:03pointing out that Mark Wayne Mullen is not in any way qualified to actually be the secretary of the
34:12nation's third largest cabinet department. And in fact, not only is he unqualified, he is underqualified
34:20even in comparison to Kristi Noem or even Pete Hegseth at the Pentagon, that he is someone who has no
34:28government experience. He has no law enforcement experience. He has no military experience. He has no
34:35intelligence experience. And in fact, has never worked in the private sector outside of his own
34:42family businesses. And his government experience is just the United States Senate, where he gets to
34:49manage a Senate staff, which for the state of Oklahoma is not that big. It's less than 50 people.
34:57Exactly. And that even in the House, where he served several terms and then came to the Senate,
35:04he has never served on the Homeland Security Committee in either body. And I think, you know,
35:12in some ways, it may seem old fashioned, even in the Trump administration, to be talking about
35:19competency or management experience. But I think it should still matter to us whether the people who are
35:25being nominated for these jobs have even the most basic set of qualifications necessary to do them.
35:32There are a bunch of ways to go in the Senate confirmation hearing, including looking back
35:39at the Kristi Noem operation there and all the various conflicts of interest and all of the favorable
35:46contract deals that were given. Democrats could focus on that in this confirmation hearing. But what is
35:54what are the range of ways to go in this confirmation hearing as you see it?
36:00Yeah, to me, I think there's obviously a lot of opportunity to look backward. But the thing that
36:06we should really try to stay focused on is what's still to come. And I think Americans are misunderstanding
36:14the scale of the immigration spending still to come that has come out of this Republican funding surge last
36:24summer. I had a piece in the recently about the construction and procurement budget for customs and
36:34border protection. It is a number around 50 to 54 billion dollars for this year, which is a number so
36:44large that it is actually larger than the entire annual defense budgets of all but five European countries.
36:53countries. And the money that is still available to be spent in that budget right now is equal to the
37:01entire
37:02GDP of the country of Estonia.
37:06And that's for the operation of these warehouses where they expect to store thousands of people?
37:14That's that's that's an entirely other budget. That is all in ISIS detention budget, still tens of
37:22billions of dollars to spend there as well. And I think we should be paying real close attention and
37:29pushing Mark Wayne Mullen as the nominee about what oversight is going to be available and expected and
37:38what level of transparency about how that money is being spent is going to be available to members of
37:45Congress going forward. This is really, to me, one of the last major opportunities that Congress has to
37:52change the trajectory of our immigration spending. And we've seen committee chairman Rand Paul has said that
37:59he sees no legal justification for the shooting and killing of Rene Good or Alex Preddy in Minneapolis.
38:07So we can expect something from the chairman on that. Absolutely. And and again, we're really just
38:16seeing the beginning of the effects of these new hires at ICE and CBP and the new construction budgets and
38:23the new detention facilities. To me, there's plenty more scandals still to come this year. And that's all
38:32going to end up on Mark Wayne Mullen's plate. Garrett Graff, thank you very much for joining us tonight.
38:38Anytime. Tonight's last word, a special last word is next.
38:47In dramatic testimony, Alexander Butterfield revealed to the world that President Richard
38:53Nixon's criminal conspiracy inside the White House was all on tape.
39:01Butterfield, are you aware of the installation of any listening devices in the Oval Office of the President?
39:10I was aware of listening devices. Yes, sir. Mr. Butterfield, as far as you know from your own personal knowledge,
39:20from 1970 then until the present time, all of the president's conversations in the offices mentioned
39:27and on the telephones mentioned were recorded.
39:32As far as you know. That's correct. And as far as you know, those tapes are still available.
39:39As far as I know, but I've been away for four months, sir. I have no further questions.
39:46Alexander Butterfield delivered that testimony in July 1973 to the Watergate Committee and changed the
39:52course of history. The president was recorded in his own voice committing crimes in the Oval Office.
39:59Richard Nixon resigned the presidency in disgrace and received a pardon from his successor, President
40:05Gerald Ford. As a result of the investigation of the president, 48 Nixon administration officials
40:12were found guilty of crimes. Alexander Butterfield joined this program in July 2022 after he watched
40:21former White House staffer Cassidy Hutchinson's testimony about the Trump White House given to the January 6th
40:28committee. Alexander Butterfield praised Cassidy Hutchinson and said this about his historic testimony.
40:39What nobody knew, I felt it was my responsibility and that I was the person who was told to put
40:47in this system.
40:51Alexander Butterfield died today at his home in San Diego. He leaves his wife, Kim, his two daughters,
40:58eight grandchildren and 13 great-grandchildren. Alexander Butterfield was 99 years old.
41:08That is tonight's last word. The 11th Hour with Stephanie Ruhle starts now.
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