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The Last Word with Lawrence ODonnell - Season 13 - Episode 44
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00:00Hey, we're just talking about Kristi Noem. Kristi Noem became the first cabinet secretary
00:03to be fired by Donald Trump in his second term. Donald Trump announced the news about 20 minutes
00:08before Kristi Noem was set to deliver the keynote address at a law enforcement conference
00:13in Nashville, during which she did not address her firing that had just been announced 20 minutes
00:19before. In announcing Noem's firing on social media, Donald Trump wrote Noem will be moving
00:26to be special envoy for the Shield of the Americas, our new security initiative in the Western
00:32Hemisphere we are announcing on Saturday in Doral, Florida. I thank Kristi for her service
00:38at Homeland. Donald Trump didn't say why Kristi Noem was fired. This is how Fox reported it.
00:45When I saw this news, I called an administration source to ask what was going on, and they told
00:51me that they were going to send me some spicy reaction. And what I am about to read is both
00:56spicy and not subtle. The text reads as follows. It was time. Replacing Kristi was based on the
01:02culmination of her many unfortunate leadership mishaps, including the fallout in Minnesota,
01:07the $200 million ad campaign, the allegations of infidelity, the mismanagement of her staff,
01:13and her constant feuding with the heads of other agencies, including CBP and ICE.
01:18Now, the straw that broke the camel's back may just have been Kristi Noem's less-than-stellar
01:23hearings this week before the Senate and House Judiciary Committees. On Tuesday,
01:27Noem testified before the Senate Judiciary Committee.
01:31I just asked if you had anything you wanted to say to the parents or to the family of Renee
01:36Good
01:36after you called them domestic terrorists.
01:39I can't even imagine what they have gone through in the loss of their son and the loss of their
01:43family members. It's absolutely tragic. But how about specifically calling them
01:46domestic terrorists without any evidence of that?
01:49Sir, ma'am, I did not call him a domestic terrorist. I said it appeared to be an incident of.
01:57I think the parents saw it for what it was.
02:00Do you want to take an opportunity to apologize to their families that you characterized them
02:07on the basis of the information you had at the time, that they were engaged in domestic terrorism?
02:14Yeah, I certainly offer my condolences to these families and for their loss. And it's a tragic
02:21situation that we saw in Minneapolis. And we continue to work to make sure that those
02:29situations are handled appropriately.
02:31Can I answer my question? I understand you're offering condolences. You said something that
02:37accused them of being domestic terrorists. A 37-year-old mother of three, a 37-year-old
02:44veteran administration nurse. One question. Do you want to apologize for that characterization
02:52that they were domestic terrorists?
02:54I will continue every day to get up and to work hard to give everybody...
02:59You talk about killing a dog that was 14 months old. I train dogs, all right? And you
03:06are a farmer. You should know better. You should know that if you're going out to a hunting lodge
03:11and you're putting pheasants out and you're putting dogs out, you don't take a puppy out
03:14there. A 14-month-old dog is basically a teenager in dog years. You decided to kill that dog because
03:21you had not invested the appropriate time and training. And then you have the audacity to go
03:25into a book and say it's a leadership lesson about tough choices. It's in your book. We could play it
03:32if we had time. At that same lunch hour, you killed a goat. And you killed the goat because you
03:37said it
03:38was behaving badly. You are a farmer. You don't castrate a goat. They behave badly. You should have
03:43probably done that before. But my point is, those are bad decisions made in the heat of the moment,
03:51not unlike what happened up in Minneapolis. I expect we're an exceptional nation. And one of the
03:58reasons we're exceptional is we expect exceptional leadership. And you've demonstrated anything but
04:04that. Yesterday, Noam again refused to apologize to the families of Renee Good and Alex Pretty when
04:13challenged to do so by the top Democrat on the House Judiciary Committee, Jamie Raskin.
04:20You stated the conclusion two hours after they were killed that they were domestic terrorists. I
04:25wanted to give you an opportunity to correct the record, not just for their family, but for
04:29everybody in America who believes in the truth and fairness and honesty. In every situation,
04:35as facts come out, we relate. You know, your acting ICE director, Todd Lyons, came before Congress.
04:40He said he had no knowledge whatsoever that Alex Pretty and Renee Good were domestic terrorists. None.
04:46This is your guy. He said that. He admitted that that was wrong. Why won't you admit it?
04:52I will tell you the investigation is still ongoing. And we'll...
04:54So do you regret speaking before the investigation?
04:57I would say that in those situations...
04:59You regret that?
05:00...the chaotic scene on the ground, we relay information to the American people
05:03that they're asking for. And as things change, situations change...
05:07People were asking you whether they were domestic terrorists?
05:09And you decided that they were before the investigation?
05:13As we learn more, we...
05:14You don't want to say anything to their families?
05:16I did. I said condolences.
05:19For what?
05:19How about an apology for what you said about their loved ones?
05:23My heart is with them, and we will continue to stand with them as they get a complete
05:26investigation into these situations.
05:28All right.
05:30So now you're getting a picture of why she might be out of her job.
05:33Then there's how she handled questions about the Department of Homeland Security's
05:38$220 million ad campaign.
05:42The president approved ahead of time you spending $220 million running TV ads across the country
05:50in which you are featured prominently.
05:53Yes, sir. We went through the legal processes.
05:55Did it correct?
05:56Did the president know you were going to do this?
05:57Yes.
05:58He did?
05:59Mm-hmm. Yes.
06:00Okay.
06:02And one thing, Senator, I think would be helpful to know is how effective that communications
06:06has been.
06:08Well, they were effective in your name recognition.
06:11I mean, I personally just...
06:15I mean, to me, it puts the president in a terribly awkward spot.
06:21After that testimony, quote, President Donald Trump told Reuters on Thursday that he did not
06:25sign off on a $220 million border security advertising campaign featuring Homeland Security Secretary
06:33Kristi Noem, who faced bipartisan criticism over the commercials during U.S. congressional
06:36hearings this week.
06:37Quote, I never knew anything about it, the president told Reuters in a phone interview.
06:43Donald Trump announced today that Oklahoma Republican Senator Mark Wayne Mullen will replace
06:47Noem effective March 31st.
06:49You may remember Senator Mark Wayne Mullen as the senator who challenged the Teamsters
06:53president, Sean O'Brien, to a fight during a 2023 hearing.
07:00Yeah, that's an interesting moment in senatorial history.
07:03Today, in an article titled Trump Fires Kristi Noem Finally, the Wall Street Journal editorial
07:07board writes, quote, while Mr. Trump praised Ms. Noem's spectacular results, there's no
07:12mistaking this move as anything other than a fed-up president cutting loose an aide who
07:16made herself into a serious liability, end quote.
07:19All right, leading off our discussion tonight is the Democratic Senator Amy Klobuchar of Minnesota.
07:23She's a member of the Senate Judiciary Committee and the Senate Commerce Committee.
07:26She's also a candidate for the governor of Minnesota.
07:29Senator Klobuchar, thank you for being here today.
07:32Thanks, Ali.
07:32It's great to be on.
07:34Her answer to your question about calling Alex Preddy a domestic terrorist, when she
07:39said she didn't call him a domestic terrorist, she said it appeared to be an incident of
07:45domestic terrorism.
07:47You're a lawyer and a legislature.
07:49That is some hair splitting if I've ever seen it.
07:51It was just insulting.
07:52It was insulting to Alex Preddy's family.
07:56I had explained that when I talked to his parents the day after he was killed, that they had
08:02told me directly that that hurt them more than anything that had happened since they
08:08had learned that their son was dead.
08:11And so I felt that I had to bring that up to her and ask her if she wanted to
08:17say anything
08:17to the family.
08:18But I have to be honest, Ali, I never thought she would pretty much meander around and act
08:24like she hadn't said it by splitting hairs in a ridiculous way.
08:28And also, she wouldn't really admit that it was wrong that they rammed the door through
08:32of a U.S. citizen, the Hmong elder, and dragged him out in his underwear.
08:36She wouldn't admit it was wrong to stop off-duty cops just because of the color of their skin.
08:42And on one of the police officers, they put guns to her face.
08:47And this happened in one of our suburbs.
08:49I think a lot of our colleagues had not heard some of these stories.
08:53And I hope that it helped to get them even madder on the Republican side when they asked
08:58their questions.
09:00She said something else.
09:01I remember I was working both days when Renee Good was killed and when Alex Preddy was killed.
09:05If I was on the air when Alex Preddy was killed and my executive producer said there's
09:09been another shooting involving a federal agent in Minnesota.
09:13And we're awfully careful about this when we hear this information because we know video
09:17will come in.
09:18We know lots of information.
09:19We know heat of the moment.
09:20And so we don't characterize things.
09:22And in both instances, Kristi Noem was very, very fast to characterize it.
09:27DHS said that Alex Preddy was brandishing a weapon.
09:31And so the next morning, I got on TV and showed you frame by frame that that was not true.
09:36I remember, Ali, I remember, and it took a while for, you know, as you said, you try to
09:41be careful.
09:41I, former prosecutor, I try to be careful.
09:44And it wasn't until I saw that video blown up of the gun in the holster and the border
09:50control agents in Alex Preddy's case taking that gun out of the holster that you realized
09:55what they had actually done.
09:56But they lied at the beginning.
09:59And she then just embraced that and threw that out there as the head of Homeland Security.
10:05And I still am amazed by the questions that Senator Tillis asked.
10:11Of course, that was probably one most interesting part of all the questions, but with the goat
10:17and the dog.
10:18But I just believe that it was shows that sometimes people say, why do you have these hearings?
10:24What difference do they make?
10:25You know, she was still in a job before those hearings started.
10:29They had not removed her from her job.
10:31Those hearings made a difference.
10:33Of course, what made the most difference was the people of Minnesota standing up, 50,000
10:37of them marching peacefully.
10:38That made the most difference.
10:40But she was still in her job, even after all that.
10:43And the fact that we were able to take her on and pinpoint her on the fact that she wouldn't
10:49answer these questions, she wouldn't explain what had really happened in all these cases
10:53in Minnesota.
10:54And she didn't even seem to know the number of agents that were truly on the ground.
10:57There were all kinds of things that were incorrect in her testimony.
11:02Tim Walz said to Jen Psaki an hour ago that she should get used to spending some time in
11:08Minnesota because she's going to need to spend some time there explaining her actions.
11:13You may be the next governor of Minnesota.
11:16Can Minnesota hold Kristi Noem and others in the Department of Homeland Security liable for
11:22some of the things that have happened in that state?
11:24Well, I know Attorney General Ellison is looking at every possibility.
11:28We're also looking at reimbursements, reimbursements, right, for all the police overtime and everything
11:35that was spent on this.
11:36When our police officers were unable to answer regular calls to law enforcement and were forced
11:42to, when you talk to Chief O'Hara in Minneapolis, it's an unbelievable amount of money that was
11:48spent.
11:48And so I know that we'll be pursuing that.
11:50And of course, the other thing is a transparent investigation of the deaths of Renee Good and
11:56of Alex Preddy and the Minnesota Bureau of Criminal Apprehension, which is a bunch of seasoned
12:01professionals that worked on the assassination of Melissa Hortman and her husband with the
12:06FBI, that worked on the shooting of the little kids in the Annunciation Church with federal
12:12officials, and now they've been shut off.
12:14So, of course, there are parallel investigations going on.
12:17I have to ask you about Congressman Raskin asking her, again, the same question you asked
12:22about this call and labeling these two people domestic terrorists.
12:25And she said, I was just trying to relay the information that the public was asking
12:28for.
12:29What could that mean?
12:30The public's asking two hours after a shooting?
12:33What is that?
12:34She did this a day after the disastrous Senate hearing, right?
12:37She doesn't even try to clarify the next day what this is.
12:41And what the public wants, and I just, from my former job as a prosecutor in our biggest
12:47county, Hennepin County, I know that what you have to do in those moments, because you
12:52can have really scary moments, you have to get out there and be very clear, this is what's
12:57happened.
12:58We're looking at the evidence.
13:00The scene has been, you know, cleared.
13:02We are making sure people are safe.
13:05And we're going to refer this to a thorough investigation.
13:08And then after you get some more facts and you say, I'm very sorry, this is to the family,
13:15you make calls, you do all these things.
13:17And just all of this normal civility and public trust has just gone down the tube with this
13:23woman.
13:24And I think that's what you've seen with the announcement of her resignation.
13:29Something, you know, I never voted for her.
13:31I have called for a resignation for a long time.
13:34But finally, the White House got to the point of realizing, I guess it didn't take two dead
13:39American citizens out of the state of Minnesota.
13:41It didn't take all these people that were unlawfully detained or unlawfully stopped or thrown in
13:47a car in their underwear.
13:48But finally, this, these hearings did it.
13:51Well, I hope accountability is contagious.
13:53I appreciate the work that everybody put into some result that looks like accountability for
13:59the moment.
14:00There's a lot more that this is just the beginning.
14:02It's nowhere near the end, as you know.
14:04Minnesota Senator Amy Klobuchar, now a candidate for Minnesota governor.
14:08Thanks always for your time.
14:09Thanks, Alan.
14:10All right.
14:10Coming up today, it was the House Republicans' turn to show that they're too cowardly to
14:13stand up to Donald Trump as he uses American troops to pursue regime change in Iran.
14:17That's next.
14:23Today, the Trump administration signaled that it is looking to intensify attacks on Iran while
14:27claiming that it does not equate to an expansion of Trump's war there.
14:31Tonight, Israel launched a series of new attacks on the outskirts of Beirut, Lebanon in what
14:37the New York Times is reporting, quote, to be the most intense attack since a ceasefire in late
14:422024 halted fighting between Israel and the Lebanese militant group Hezbollah.
14:48Now, before that attack, Lebanon's health ministry reported that 123 people had been killed
14:53and 683 were wounded in the recent Israeli attacks.
14:57Today, Azerbaijan accused Iran of drone attacks that struck civilian infrastructure, including
15:02an airport and a school, which Tehran has denied.
15:05The State Department closed the U.S. embassy in Kuwait as Americans in the Middle East remain
15:10stranded trying to evacuate, with airspace closed and air travel severely restricted.
15:14In the once again evolving explanation for what the goal is in Iran, Donald Trump made the
15:20case for regime change, saying that he should be involved in choosing Iran's next leader.
15:25He should be involved.
15:27Ayatollah Khamenei's second eldest son is reportedly a top contender to take over and would likely
15:33continue his father's hardline policies, according to the New York Times.
15:36Donald Trump told Axios, quote,
15:38They're wasting their time. Khamenei's son is a lightweight. I have to be involved in the appointment,
15:43like with Delcy Rodriguez in Venezuela, end quote.
15:46He added that he refuses to accept a new Iranian leader who would continue Khamenei's policies,
15:51which he said would force the U.S. back to war in five years. Those are his terms.
15:56Quote,
15:56Khamenei's son is unacceptable to me. We want someone that will bring harmony and peace to Iran,
16:01Trump said. Or at least someone who will do what Donald Trump wants him to do.
16:06Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth said this today.
16:10We have clear objectives with maximum authorities on the battlefield.
16:15The dumb, politically correct wars of the past were the opposite of what we're doing here.
16:20Our munitions are full up and our will is iron clad, which means our timeline
16:27is ours and ours alone to control. Iran is hoping that we cannot sustain this,
16:35which is a really bad miscalculation for the IRGC in Iran.
16:41You see, there's no shortage of American will here.
16:46But that's not actually what Americans want, according to polling on Trump's war
16:51that has already killed six U.S. service members.
16:54Fifty-six percent of Americans do not approve of the U.S. military strikes in Iran.
16:57I just want you to keep in mind, think about Iraq and think about Afghanistan.
17:00These things tend to be fairly popular at the start,
17:03and then the longer they draw on, the less popular they get.
17:06This is wildly unpopular right in the beginning,
17:08and it is hard to imagine those numbers getting better for a president
17:11who campaigned on the promise of no more endless wars.
17:14The World Health Organization said today that almost 1,000 deaths have been reported in Iran,
17:20including about 170 who died in the bombing of a girls' elementary school.
17:25The U.S. says it's investigating that attack.
17:28Iran's foreign minister said today his country is not looking to negotiate a ceasefire
17:32with the United States and Israel right now, telling NBC News that if the U.S. decided
17:36to invade with ground troops, quote,
17:38we are confident that we can confront them, and that would be a big disaster for them, end quote.
17:43In an interview with Time magazine, when asked whether Americans should be worried
17:46about retaliatory attacks at home, Trump acknowledges the possibility, quote,
17:50I guess, he says, but I think they're worried about that all the time.
17:54We think about it all the time. We plan for it.
17:56But yeah, you know, we expect some things. Like I said, some people will die.
17:59When you go to war, some people will die, end quote.
18:04Some people will die.
18:05Today, Pete Hegseth said there's no shortage of weapons,
18:08despite reporting from the Wall Street Journal that the Pentagon is scrambling
18:10to replenish its dwindling stockpiles of missile defense interceptors.
18:15And today, Republicans in the House blocked a bipartisan war powers resolution
18:19introduced by the Democratic Congressman Ro Khanna, who will join us in a moment,
18:23and the Republican Congressman Thomas Massey,
18:25that would have restricted Donald Trump's ability to continue his war in Iran
18:29without congressional approval.
18:31It's not that high a bar.
18:32If you think you're justified in having your war, just ask Congress.
18:35That's what the law says you have to do.
18:37However, a similar measure failed in the Senate yesterday.
18:40Joining us now is the Democratic Congressman Jason Crowe of Colorado.
18:43He's a member of the House Intelligence and Armed Services Committee
18:46and is a former U.S. Army Ranger.
18:48Congressman Crowe, good to see you. Thank you for being with us.
18:52I don't know where to start.
18:54The cavalier attitude toward the loss of life,
18:57Pete Hegseth had it and Donald Trump had it.
19:00It's kind of wild to me.
19:02I understand that in wars people die,
19:03but then those wars should be considered and strategic
19:05and should be explained to the American people
19:08and justified to the American people.
19:11Yeah, let's start there.
19:13Let's start with the cavalier attitude.
19:14I mean, because isn't that what this is all about?
19:17The fact that they don't understand the suffering.
19:21They don't understand that the Americans don't want this.
19:24They're sick and tired of financing this,
19:27of bearing the burden of endless wars,
19:29of fighting and dying in these wars.
19:31I learned a long time ago when Donald Trump and others love to talk tough and bang the war drums.
19:38It is working class folks that always have to bear the burden.
19:42That continues to this day.
19:44Why we took a vote today really didn't have anything, in my opinion,
19:48to do with us just wanting to be involved,
19:51us wanting to be engaged, notification requirements.
19:54What the vote today was about was about returning accountability back to this broken process,
20:00putting Americans back in the driver's seat in the most important decision the government can make,
20:05and that is the decision to send our sons and daughters to war and to spend our money in conflict.
20:11And Republicans walked away from that.
20:13Carlos, when I spent a lot of time studying Iran,
20:15I was there when the deal was negotiated.
20:18You know, I kind of know a lot about the place.
20:21Pete Hegsitt said we have clear objectives.
20:23I cannot determine what the clear objectives are in this war.
20:31Yeah, because he's lying.
20:32That's why, right?
20:34The justifications for the war change by the day.
20:37The objectives change by the day.
20:40You know, he said we're doing the opposite of dumb things, which should be smart things, right?
20:45So there you have.
20:46That's the end of the debate.
20:47We're dominating.
20:49We're meeting all objectives.
20:50Donald Trump has rated it a 15 out of a 10.
20:54So we should just all move on and not worry about it.
20:56But the problem is, this is costing us $2 billion a day.
21:00Six service members already gave their lives.
21:02This is likely to get worse, much worse, in the days and weeks ahead.
21:06They are doubling down on this failure, which is exactly why Congress needs to step up.
21:12And Republicans need to grow a spine and actually stand up for their constituents.
21:17Congressman, I know you've done two tours in Iraq and in Afghanistan.
21:21I wouldn't mind if you could help me explain what Pete Hegsitt said when he said,
21:26dumb, politically correct wars of the past are over.
21:29Were you involved in dumb, politically correct wars?
21:33Well, I have no idea what Pete Hegsitt talks about half the time.
21:37I don't spend my time inside of Pete Hegsitt's head because it's not a great place for me or anybody
21:43else to be.
21:44But listen, he deployed in these wars and he took something very different out of that experience than I did.
21:52What I took out of that experience was that it's working class kids like me and the people that I
21:58grew up with
21:58that have to go and do endless, endless patrols in Baghdad and be subjected to roadside bombs and sniper attack,
22:08while oil executives and CEOs get rich off of these wars, much like is happening today, as a matter of
22:17fact.
22:17And the fact that we spent five to eight trillion dollars, seven thousand American lives, 20 years of conflict trying
22:28to nation build and regime change.
22:30And look what happened.
22:32Have we learned nothing from that experience?
22:34Apparently, Donald Trump and Pete Hegseth haven't learned anything from that experience.
22:38Americans know better, though.
22:40Here's the deal.
22:41The reason why this is unpopular is because we know better.
22:46Americans don't want this, right?
22:48They literally can't afford health care.
22:50I have constituents calling me a daily.
22:53They're losing their health care.
22:54They're losing their homes.
22:55People are dying of medical issues that they can't pay for.
22:59Our infrastructure is crumbling.
23:01And Donald Trump is spending two billion dollars a day and counting on another endless conflict in the Middle East.
23:07Yeah, you bring up a good point.
23:09We spent five to eight trillion dollars on those other wars, and now we cut benefits to people because we've
23:14got to balance the budget.
23:16I mean, it's kind of amazing that this is the stuff that drives up our debts and deficits.
23:20I'm going to be talking to your colleague, Brendan Boyle, about that in a minute.
23:23Congressman, thank you.
23:23Thanks for your service to the country, and thanks for being here tonight.
23:26Jason Crowe of Colorado.
23:28All right.
23:28Joining us now is the Democratic Congressman Ro Khanna of California.
23:31He's a member of the House Oversight and Armed Services Committee.
23:33And along with Republican Congressman Thomas Massey pushed the measure to stop Donald Trump's war, which didn't pass but came
23:40awful close.
23:41It perplexes me, Congressman.
23:44You were not – we're not debating whether or not Donald Trump should go to – whether America should go
23:50to war in Iran.
23:50That's a valid discussion that people can have and you in Congress should be having.
23:56You're asking for Donald Trump to be accountable to Congress as the Constitution requires, that if you want to go
24:00to war, you need to make the case and convince Congress that you go to war.
24:04You don't get to do this on your own.
24:06Yes, and all Democrats but four stood together to affirm Article I, that Donald Trump can't be getting us into
24:14an endless war, costing over a billion dollars a day, costing American lives, without asking the American people for their
24:22support, without asking Congress for authorization.
24:25But I was so offended by the clip you played with Peter Hegseth, the Secretary of War, saying that these
24:30are politically correct ways that we've fought in the past.
24:34You know what?
24:35It's led to his thinking.
24:37It's led to arguably a strike that killed 170 Iranian girls.
24:44The military is saying that we may have done that.
24:47And that's because Pete Hegseth thinks that protecting civilian lives overseas is politically correct.
24:52You know what?
24:54I believe that an Iranian life has as much dignity as an American life.
24:58It's a human being.
24:59And to have that kind of callousness is not only contrary to every faith tradition, it's a contrary to the
25:06founding principles of this country.
25:08Shame on Pete Hegseth for talking about Iranian girls as if they're politically correct pawns.
25:15Yeah, I would just like to have not illegal wars.
25:17I mean, it's not clear this is a legal war to start with.
25:20Forget politically correct.
25:21Why are we doing this?
25:22Why are we at war with Iran?
25:23What is the explanation given to American people about why this is in the national interest?
25:28Well, there is no explanation.
25:30They first said we want to change the regimes.
25:34Now they're saying they don't even think they can achieve a regime change.
25:37They have no sense of there being an imminent threat to the United States.
25:41In fact, Donald Trump is acknowledging that the threat to people here in the United States is because he launched
25:47this war.
25:48That is chilling.
25:49If you're living at home in a suburban community, Donald Trump is saying you may die because Iran may retaliate
25:55here in the United States.
25:57He's literally made people's lives less safe and he's saying, oh, well, that's what happens when you go to war.
26:03And for what? This is the most egregious foreign policy blunder since the Iraq war.
26:11And the American people are waking up to that.
26:14And the Republicans now own it because almost the entire Democratic Party said we're against these endless wars.
26:20We want to be spending on schools and hospitals and jobs here.
26:24Congressman, thanks again for being with us tonight.
26:26Congressman Ro Khanna of California.
26:28All right.
26:28Coming up, six days of Trump's Iran war.
26:30And Pete Hegseth is showing yet again that he is a terrible choice to lead the Pentagon.
26:34That's the assessment of Tom Nichols, who will join us to explain why next.
26:41We are learning more about the six U.S. service members killed in an Iranian drone strike in a tactical
26:47on a tactical operations center in Kuwait.
26:49They are Nicole Amor of White Bear Lake, Minnesota.
26:52She's a mother of two.
26:54Captain Cody Cork of Winter Haven, Florida.
26:56His family described him as the life of the party.
26:58Noah Tietzins of Bellevue, Nebraska, a father and a husband.
27:02Declan Cody, just 20 years old, from West Des Moines, Iowa, who was posthumously promoted to sergeant.
27:08Major Jeffrey R. O'Brien of Indianola, Iowa, who has received multiple awards during his service.
27:15Pentagon has not yet formally confirmed the identity of the sixth soldier killed and is awaiting positive identification from military
27:21medical examiners.
27:22Yesterday, Pete Hegseth said this about the media reporting on the loss of American soldiers in Donald Trump's war.
27:31We've taken control of Iran's airspace and waterways without boots on the ground.
27:37We control their fate.
27:39But when a few drones get through or tragic things happen, it's front page news.
27:45I get it.
27:46The press only wants to make the president look bad, but try for once to report the reality.
27:55Try for once to report the reality.
27:58The reality of war is that soldiers die.
28:00The absolute least that their sacrifice deserves, as inconvenient as it may be to Pete Hegseth and all the fun
28:07that he has,
28:07talking about the absurdly named Operation Epic Fury, is for the media to report out the names of fallen soldiers.
28:16In a new piece for The Atlantic titled, Pete Hegseth treats fallen American soldiers as a PR problem,
28:21staff writer Tom Nichols writes,
28:23For years, defense secretaries and top generals have carried the anguish of decisions that have led to troop deaths.
28:28Former defense secretary Robert Gates has said that he wept as he read the stories of the fallen.
28:33Some generals have carried photos of those lost under their command, even into their retirement.
28:38Hegseth, instead, noted the losses almost in passing and used them as a vehicle for his ongoing beefs with the
28:45press.
28:46Like his boss, he does not talk to the American people so much as put on performances for them.
28:50Pete Hegseth, if he does not resign, should at least get out of the way and let better men than
28:54him talk to the nation and to the press.
28:58Joining us now is Tom Nichols, professor emeritus of the U.S. Naval War College and staff writer at The
29:02Atlantic.
29:02I've never served in any military in my life, Tom.
29:06That is disgusting, what Pete Hegseth said.
29:09It was in passing.
29:11He basically said, we've got our video game war that goes on.
29:14We've got control over all sorts of things.
29:15People die.
29:16People just die.
29:18You don't have to have served in the military to find that whole episode ghoulish and terrible.
29:25Hegseth, like his boss, has to make everything about him and his interests and his political fortunes and the idea
29:35that somehow six American soldiers should die.
29:39And Pete Hegseth is, you know, irritated that that somehow makes the front page during a war instead of all
29:48the cool stuff we're doing.
29:51It shows you just what a complete adolescent the secretary of defense is and why he should never have been
29:57confirmed to that position in the first place.
30:00What's the – there's so much wrong with this war, it's not worth sort of figuring out whether or not
30:08you like the Iranian regime.
30:10That's actually a fairly easy conclusion to come to.
30:12Most people don't like them, and they're really bad.
30:14They're murderous.
30:15There's a lot of things that are bad about them.
30:17There's also a lot of headroom for what we can continue to do with it.
30:20We had a deal with them.
30:21We can make another deal with them.
30:23We can negotiate.
30:23We can put sanctions on.
30:24We're not out of headroom to have decided to do this without the approval of Congress and without making a
30:30case to the American people.
30:32If Donald Trump had wanted to go to the American people to say, look, as George W. Bush did and
30:38whether he agreed with the Iraq war or not.
30:40Whether you liked it or not or agreed with him or not, he believed that that was a hill that
30:44he had to climb.
30:46And to the United Nations as well, even though he really had no use for the United Nations, but he
30:51went and stood in front of it twice to make this case.
30:53And said, in effect, even though the rationale for that war was WMDs and Saddam's refusal to cooperate with international
31:04inspectors, which was a real problem, really what the Bush administration was saying is this regime in this kind of
31:10world we live in is an intolerable threat to everybody.
31:14They are just too—Saddam Hussein and his sons are simply too dangerous to be allowed to stay in power.
31:19If Donald Trump wanted to go to the Congress and the American people and say the Iranian regime is so
31:24hideous, so ghastly, and he couldn't make that case, as you say, no one is shedding any tears for the
31:31Ayatollah here or anywhere else.
31:35And if he wanted to make that case, then let him make that case.
31:38But the problem is, every time there's a question about what this war is about, well, it's about nuclear weapons.
31:44Well, it's about ballistic missile launchers.
31:46Well, it's about IEDs and how terrible they are.
31:49And every time the president blurts out the truth, which is this is a war for regime change, all of
31:56the other Republicans going to kind of clean up on aisle six and say, well, like Speaker Johnson, well, it's
32:02not a—I've been told it's not a war.
32:03No, I'm pretty sure that when you fly to an enemy capital, bomb it, kill their leaders, and then call
32:10on their people to rise up, you've pretty much passed the line for war.
32:14But they don't want to say—they want to have it both ways, because, of course, there's such an anti-war
32:17coalition in MAGA world.
32:19They want to say that they're not at war, but they also want to say, you know, look at the—they
32:25want to thump the chest and sort of look at the muscular, cool stuff we're doing.
32:29And they can't have it both ways.
32:30So in the beginning of the Afghan war, there was support for it, because it looked like it was in
32:34retaliation for something that had been done to innocent Americans.
32:38Iraq was more controversial then, and in hindsight is yet more controversial.
32:43This one is not one that has popular support at all, partially because of what you're saying.
32:48No one's bothered to explain to us exactly why we're involved in a war right after we just got involved
32:52in a thing in Venezuela, which no one bothered to explain to us either.
32:56Wars don't get more popular over time.
33:00Right.
33:00And, I mean, it's really remarkable that there has been no rally around the flag effect here, that every president
33:07has gotten a bump for military action except Donald Trump.
33:11And I suspect the reason for that is most of the people in this country have made up their mind
33:15about Donald Trump.
33:17His—the people that don't like him don't like him.
33:19The people that are going to support him will support him through anything.
33:21But there's a large group of people in the middle who are saying, like him or hate him, I don't
33:26want to go to war, you know, with a country overseas.
33:29I don't want to be in yet another Middle East war.
33:32And I think on that, he just assumed that if he just—you know, Trump has this thing where he kind
33:40of wishes things into being.
33:42Well, if I just do it, people will support it, Iran will surrender, and things will work out somehow.
33:50But that's not how a war of this size goes.
33:53No.
33:53No.
33:54With a big country that is an industrialized country that has allies and weaponry at their disposal.
33:59Tom, thanks.
34:00Always good to see you.
34:00Tom Nichols.
34:01All right.
34:02Coming up today, gas prices went up and your 401k went down, all because of Trump's war on Iran.
34:06And not because people think mission accomplished is around the corner.
34:09I'll talk about that next.
34:14There are a few ways to assess the cost of any war.
34:17The most important way we just focused on is the last—in the last block is the actual loss of lives.
34:24Military lives, civilian lives, and not just the ones on our side, on the other side, too.
34:30And then there's the actual cost in dollars.
34:32Today, MSNOW confirmed an estimate first reported by The Atlantic, which says the war with Iran is costing the U
34:38.S. an estimated billion dollars a day,
34:40according to two congressional sources with knowledge of the matter.
34:43Based on that estimate, the U.S. has spent at least $5 billion on the war since it began on
34:49February 28th.
34:51Think about that.
34:51$5 billion.
34:52Okay, now put that aside for a second because I'm going to give you some bigger numbers.
34:55During the decades-long conflicts in Iraq and Afghanistan, the amount spent—the U.S. spent a record amount of money.
35:01The Harvard Kennedy School has put the total somewhere between $4 to $6 trillion.
35:08Trillion.
35:09Adding the largest portion of that bill is yet to be paid.
35:13So sit with that for a minute.
35:14We're still paying for the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.
35:17They actually make up a very big part of our debt right now.
35:22And I mean we, because it's our tax dollars.
35:25So how long will this new war last?
35:27No one knows.
35:27But at a billion dollars a day, what will it do to Donald Trump's already delicate economy?
35:32Last week, the White House was pointing to cheaper gas and a record-breaking stock market to crow about the
35:37economy.
35:37Now, CNBC reports stock resumed their decline Thursday after a one-day respite,
35:43as concerns over the Iran war flared up again, with U.S. crude topping $80 per barrel.
35:49The moves in oil drove major market swings throughout the session.
35:52The 30-stock Dow fell 1,000 points at almost the very moment that oil reached the $80 per barrel
36:00threshold.
36:02Oil was $60 a barrel not that long ago.
36:05Nobel Prize-winning economist Paul Krugman doesn't seem too optimistic about the long-term impact of the war.
36:09Quote, there are many stresses on our economy, and this could be the straw that breaks the camel's back,
36:14a straw that becomes heavier the longer the war goes on.
36:18My next guest, Congressman Brennan Boyle, is the top Democrat on the House Budget Committee.
36:22He wrote a letter today to the Congressional Budget Office asking them for an analysis
36:26on how much Donald Trump's war with Iran will cost American taxpayers.
36:31Joining us now is Democratic Congressman Brennan Boyle of Pennsylvania.
36:34Congressman, good to see you.
36:35Thank you for being with us.
36:37There are a lot of reasons why Donald Trump should have sought approval from Congress about this war,
36:42but this is one of the big ones.
36:44Wars cost us a lot of money, and then we go through this nonsense we've been through for the last
36:48year with Doge,
36:49cutting regular Americans off from their benefits and from their jobs,
36:55because we're still paying for Afghanistan and Iraq.
36:58Yeah, good to be with you.
36:59And, you know, if you think back just over a year ago, a year and a half ago or so,
37:04Donald Trump was in my state more than any other state during that campaign.
37:09He kept saying that his number one priority would be lowering costs and that he would accomplish this,
37:15mind you, and I quote, on day one.
37:17Well, here we are about 14 months in.
37:20Already we're paying more in terms of what we pay for the cost of consumer goods,
37:26thanks to the Trump tariff tax, which is what it is.
37:30It's a de facto national sales tax.
37:32We're also now paying more for health care because of the record cuts that Republicans pushed through this summer
37:39in their so-called big, beautiful bill, which will mean 15 million Americans will lose their health care.
37:45And now, on top of all of that, you have this, spending at least a billion dollars a day
37:51on a war that the vast majority of the American people do not want.
37:55Yeah, it's not even close.
37:57I mean, 59 percent of Americans don't want it.
38:00Depending on what poll you look to, it's about that.
38:01It's around 60 percent.
38:03About 35 percent of people are supportive of Donald Trump,
38:05but 35 percent of people will support Donald Trump no matter what he does.
38:10But there's a direct line between what we spend on war and what we can't spend here in America.
38:16Yeah, that's exactly right.
38:17I mean, how in the world can we afford to pay to provide health care for the 15 million Americans
38:26that are about to become uninsured as a result of this administration and Republicans in Congress
38:32if it turns out we are instead sending that money to fight this military adventure that we are seeing in
38:39Iran,
38:39which still, by the way, I've yet to hear one rationale for what we're doing
38:44and also what exactly the endgame looks like.
38:48That still has not been communicated to me as a member of Congress.
38:53We've certainly heard many different theories on what's behind it from different administration officials,
38:59but the story is shifting day by day.
39:02Well, remember that we had a strike carrier group off the coast of Venezuela.
39:06Supposedly, this was about drugs.
39:07And, of course, the minute it happened, it was about oil, so at least they finally told the truth.
39:10But that strike carrier group was there, so it couldn't be in Iran.
39:13And now we've got strike carrier groups in Iran that are not in East Asia,
39:17so that, God forbid, something happened in Taiwan.
39:20I mean, the Chinese must be laughing at this, saying,
39:22you just sent all your stuff to Iran for a war you didn't need to be involved in,
39:26and we're endlessly threatening we're going to go into Taiwan?
39:30You know, you raise a concern that is an increasing one for me,
39:35as well as the other members of parliament that I serve with in the NATO parliament.
39:40We are, the group of us, increasingly concerned that China might take advantage
39:47of a very distracted United States in order to act on Taiwan.
39:52And I have to say, the further we go into this Iranian adventure,
39:58the more difficult it would be to turn around and act,
40:01if, God forbid, we needed to, in a Pacific theater.
40:05Congressman, good to see you, as always.
40:06Thank you for joining us.
40:07Congressman Brendan Boyle of Pennsylvania.
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