00:00Мы один из самых быстрых шоколадных брендов в мире.
00:02Это как мы получим детей от ребенка.
00:04Это как мы изменим нашу индустрию.
00:12Великолепно к «The Big Question».
00:13Это серия с «Ероньюз», где мы поговорим с большим названием в бизнесе.
00:17Я Ханна-Браун, и сегодня я попросил бы в Тони's «Chоко-Lонely», Дуглас Ламонт.
00:22Дуглас, спасибо за просмотр!
00:24Плесня, это было бы быть здесь.
00:26Тони's was founded in 2005, as a protest against widespread child exploitation and slavery in the chocolate industry.
00:33So, you know, we're about 21 years later.
00:35How is the industry looking now?
00:37Well, it's a slow process for change, as we've discovered.
00:40But I feel like we've made good progress in terms of people becoming much more aware of the challenges in
00:46West Africa.
00:47Also, as a company, what we wanted to do was show that you could do things differently.
00:51You could build a model that was more sustainable, that supported farmers in a different way.
00:55We have an initiative called Tony's Open Chain that has brought, you know, over 20 other partners on board with
01:00us now, who source their cocoa in partnership with us.
01:03But, you know, we're still a very small percent.
01:06We're about 1% of the total industry.
01:08And we need further change to happen, to deliver for farmers in West Africa.
01:13So, just to give us some context, how big is the chocolate industry in Europe in 2026?
01:18The total size is about a 42 billion category in Europe, so it's pretty massive.
01:22And then when you, you know, you look at the sort of global industry, it's more than double that again.
01:27It's a huge global product.
01:29But 60% of the world's cocoa comes out of, you know, West Africa, Ivory Coast, Ghana.
01:34And so that puts a lot of pressure on making sure that the model in West Africa is right to
01:41avoid exploitation of the cocoa farmer.
01:43What kind of percent of that industry would you think is still kind of fueled by exploitation?
01:47Well, I think the reality is an entrenched problem.
01:50You know, and even in our supply chain, we track and monitor child labor every year and you discover cases
01:55of child labor.
01:56Our average, as we go out into the, meet every family, is around 4% of households where we discover
02:01cases of child labor.
02:03Within industry, that's typically been over 40%.
02:05So, you know, a huge problem continues to exist.
02:09And what we see from a living income perspective, you know, less than 40% of families working on cocoa
02:14farms are earning a living income.
02:15And how do you actually go about uncovering and solving kind of exploitation within the supply chain?
02:20So, we have a model called the five sourcing principles, and that starts with traceability.
02:24So, making sure that we know every single farm that our beans come from.
02:28We then work, you know, in partnership with farmers to build a strong farmer base.
02:32We give them long-term contracts, asymmetric contracts.
02:36So, we will always buy from them at the living income price.
02:39They don't have to sell to us.
02:40If they get a higher price from somewhere else, it puts the power in their hands.
02:44But the commitment is that we pay, you know, a living income reference price,
02:47which right now we're paying a 45% premium to the farm gate price in West Africa.
02:53That combination of things means the farmer has a little bit more money in his pocket,
02:57can invest in his farm, and can afford to send his children to school.
03:00You know, your brand name, Tony's Chocka Lonely, obviously that lonely part came from your founder
03:05feeling kind of quite isolated in his fight against exploitation.
03:09How do you think that is changing?
03:10Do you still feel lonely?
03:12No, I think we're feeling less lonely.
03:13I think in two ways.
03:15So, we have an initiative, as I said, called Tony's Open Chain,
03:18where we offer our cocoa sourced ethically to anybody that wants it.
03:22And we have many partners, including private label brands like Albert Hine and Waitrose,
03:26come on board and support us and buy their cocoa through us.
03:30And brands like Ben & Jerry's, you know, sourcing their chocolate for their ice cream through us.
03:34So, that means that we're not just Tony's as a brand.
03:37It's a collective now of 22 mission ally partners, which I think is fantastic.
03:41If you're going to solve these entrenched problems in the supply chain,
03:45we have to collaborate in the supply chain.
03:47Let's compete at shelf, but let's collaborate in the supply chain.
03:56Let's talk about pricing.
03:58According to data from Eurostat, consumer chocolate pricing rose 17.9% across the EU in 2025,
04:05which was the highest increase of any food item.
04:08And to put that in context, the average inflation across food and non-alcoholic beverages was on average 3.3%.
04:14So, what exactly caused such a steep increase in the price of chocolate?
04:18So, the main point was that cocoa itself went up five times in price.
04:23So, 500% increase in the cost of cocoa, or two bad harvests in a row as a result of
04:28two different things,
04:29one very dry and then very wet, and then the second year almost the other way around,
04:34which meant that you had two very bad crops and global demand for cocoa continues to rise.
04:39That combination drives really low yield and high demand,
04:43and then the economics follow from there, the prices spiked.
04:46If we're going to survive as a business and to be able to make the numbers add up,
04:51we needed to pass prices through to consumer to make sure that the farmer didn't pay the price for that.
04:57And so, how are we looking now?
04:58You know, are we going to see more steep prices in 2026?
05:02So, again, the prices are now on the ground in West Africa going completely the other way,
05:07so we've seen a massive decline in the cocoa price.
05:11As a result of prices going up, consumer demand falls away,
05:14a better crop, and you get into this reverse situation.
05:19You know, again, really frustrating from our point of view.
05:22We're not celebrating those low prices in the market.
05:24What we want is a consistent, strong living income price for the farmer,
05:28which is now substantially above where the price is today.
05:31Everyone buys 12 months forward,
05:32so what we're buying now will be fed through into consumer prices in a year's time,
05:37and right now everyone's selling cocoa that they bought at very, very high prices.
05:42My argument is actually, yes,
05:43the big companies should invest in the farmer living income price,
05:47commit to that living income premium like we do,
05:50rather than passing all of it back to consumers or retailers.
05:54In the past, everyone said,
05:55oh, we can't do it because if we put the price up,
05:57consumers will never pay the premium.
05:58We're seeing consumers on the whole paying those premiums,
06:01so that money is there to invest in the farmer.
06:04That's how we create a more stable industry.
06:06That's how we get children out of child labour.
06:08That's how we change the industry.
06:10Do you think there's anything that needs to be done
06:11around the public perception of prices?
06:13Tony's Chocoloney is often seen as a more premium-priced chocolate,
06:17but is it a premium chocolate
06:20or is it just what exploitation-free chocolate costs?
06:23We don't see ourselves as sort of a super premium brand
06:25and actually part of the reason that our bars,
06:28people perceive us to be expensive
06:29is because our bar is really big and chunky
06:31compared to most bars on shelf.
06:33So yes, the absolute price point is higher,
06:36but the amount of chocolate you get for that
06:38is also substantially more.
06:40So on a sort of per kilogram basis,
06:42our chocolate is typically at a 20, 25% premium
06:46to other bars on the shelf,
06:48which I think is a price worth paying.
06:49And I think the fact that we're one of the fastest-growing
06:51chocolate brands in the world
06:52suggests that many other people think
06:54it's a price worth paying as well.
06:56Brilliant.
06:57And you are quite successful in this vision that you have.
06:59What are you aiming to achieve in the next 10 years, we'll say?
07:03Look, for us, more volume equals more beans
07:05equals more impact on the ground for farmers.
07:07So yeah, do I want to double the size of the company?
07:10Of course I do,
07:10because that's doubling the number of beans
07:12we're sourcing in an ethical way,
07:14paying a living income price for West African farmers.
07:17And that's exactly what we're all about.
07:19Our other ambition is to change the industry.
07:22So Tony's being good on its own is not enough.
07:24And so creating that tipping point
07:26where more of the industry steps
07:28into a commitment for living income
07:30is actually our true ambition.
07:31I see myself as CEO of the mission,
07:34not CEO of the brand.
07:35And the mission is together ending exploitation in cocoa.
07:39That's way beyond what we do as a brand.
07:41It involves the whole of the industry.
07:43And that's a big challenge.
07:45And on that note,
07:46thank you very much for your insight today
07:47and for joining me on The Big Question.
07:49Pleasure and great to have you here.
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