#video #The Gilgo Beach Killer House of Secrets S01E04
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00:00:08Some breaking news out of Long Island, New York.
00:00:12I'd like to report that we found human remains.
00:00:16Four bodies wrapped in burlap dumped alongside Ocean Parkway.
00:00:20The so-called Gilgo Four were all petite women,
00:00:24all under 5'5", and they were all sex workers.
00:00:27Police excavate an apparent serial killer's dumping ground.
00:00:32The murders of two more women.
00:00:35Bringing the total number to six.
00:00:37Add to a major development in the Gilgo Beach murder case.
00:00:40A seventh murder.
00:00:42Find this killer before he strikes and hurts and murders someone that you love.
00:00:51And then, after 13 years, this bombshell drops.
00:00:55Major break in a cold case.
00:00:57A suspect now under arrest in connection to the unsolved Gilgo Beach murder.
00:01:02Rex Heuerman, a longtime resident of Massapequa Park, Long Island.
00:01:07The 59-year-old architect and father of two.
00:01:10Rex Heuerman is a demon that walks among us.
00:01:14This is like a modern-day horror story.
00:01:17The idea that the wife didn't know anything about what he was doing is hard to believe.
00:01:22They're telling me that my husband is alleged to be some horrific serial killer.
00:01:28No freaking way is this man going out soliciting sex from a sex worker, killing them, and dumping them on
00:01:36Gilgo Beach.
00:01:39He had a room specifically built in his basement that even his wife was not allowed to enter.
00:01:48We've recovered numerous electronic devices from the defendant, including laptops, smartphones, tablets.
00:01:54Investigators were able to forensically extract this planning document.
00:01:59He's getting drop cloths.
00:02:00He's getting booties for his shoes.
00:02:02Hairnets so that his hair won't get on the victim.
00:02:06Or so he hopes.
00:02:07Investigators say they matched hair fibers that were found at six of the seven crime scenes.
00:02:12They matched this DNA to Rex Heuerman and his family.
00:02:15Victoria, are you here to support your father through the charges?
00:02:19It's so hard to even believe the fact that, you know, he's this sick killer.
00:02:25Prosecutors saying this.
00:02:27But my memory says this.
00:02:30Prosecutors in Suffolk County say they are ready to take accused Gilgo Beach serial killer Rex Heuerman
00:02:35sent to trial for the murders of seven women.
00:02:38Heuerman has pleaded not guilty.
00:02:40Rex would have to tell me face to face that he killed these girls for me to believe it.
00:02:53No, it's, I don't believe my husband did this.
00:03:34No, it's, I don't believe my husband did this.
00:03:39They could mark a pivotal moment to a case that's rocked the tri-state area for years.
00:03:45This morning, a possible change of plea for accused Gilgo Beach serial killer Rex Heuerman.
00:03:51At 11 a.m., he is expected to confess to and admit to each of the murders in court.
00:03:56But his attorney, not yet commenting.
00:03:59Heuerman is accused of killing seven female sex workers whose remains were found near Gilgo Beach
00:04:04and elsewhere on Long Island, New York, between 1993 and 2010.
00:04:09Heuerman's family, meanwhile, has not commented on the expected plea today.
00:04:26I just got to back up for a minute.
00:04:28Let her just get out of the car, please.
00:04:29After we have the proceedings today, we'll have statements to make.
00:04:32I'll call for myself and Asa will make a statement, okay?
00:04:34Can you just say one thing today?
00:04:35Can you just say one thing?
00:04:36There's nothing to say at this point.
00:04:37We don't know what's going to happen at 11 o'clock.
00:04:38Come on.
00:04:38Good morning, Laura.
00:04:39Good morning.
00:04:40Jody.
00:04:41How's everybody feeling?
00:04:44Went up all night.
00:04:45Asa, how are you feeling?
00:04:46She'll have something to say later on.
00:04:47Hey, Bob, right here.
00:04:48No fighting, Jimmy.
00:04:49Asa.
00:04:50You guys are going to make a statement after?
00:04:52After.
00:04:53Can't say anything before then.
00:04:54Do you know what's going to happen in the courtroom?
00:04:56It's not going to get there.
00:04:57Okay.
00:04:57So we'll address it after it happens.
00:04:59At this point, it's pure speculation.
00:05:01Yeah, right here.
00:05:01Right here.
00:05:02Thanks.
00:05:04What's going on?
00:05:04What was the question?
00:05:05Go ahead.
00:05:06How have they been processing this?
00:05:07They've been processing this for the past 33 months.
00:05:09We're prepared for whatever's going to go on in the courtroom today.
00:05:12Asa and Victoria are both prepared for that.
00:05:14And she has said consistently since day one.
00:05:17She wants to hear this and see this play out in the courtroom.
00:05:40Come to order, please.
00:05:41Remain seated at this time.
00:05:43Yeah.
00:05:43Number eight, Rex Ewerman, trial control.
00:05:51Coming out, Judge.
00:05:59On the record, number eight, Rex Ewerman.
00:06:03Party's appearances, please.
00:06:15Remind us who you are, and take us back to how you first got involved with Asa.
00:06:21My name is Bob Macedonio.
00:06:22I'm an attorney.
00:06:23I practice in the areas of criminal defense, matrimonial, and family court work.
00:06:32Rex, did you do it?
00:06:33Less than 48 hours after Rex Ewerman's arrest, my firm received a call from Asa Elorup, who
00:06:38was Rex Ewerman's wife.
00:06:40Asa would like me to express she's going through a very difficult time.
00:06:43When we first were retained by Miss Ewerman, the media frenzy was chaotic.
00:06:49Rex Ewerman's wife and the suspect's adult stepson was seen crying on the front porch.
00:06:54They were parked outside of her office across the street.
00:06:57They followed her 24-7.
00:06:59They were stationed outside of her house for months on end.
00:07:03Asa, we're not blaming you for anything.
00:07:05No, I don't care.
00:07:06We feel very bad, and we want to know if you have anything to say.
00:07:12My office played every role for the family.
00:07:14We were therapists.
00:07:15We were counselors.
00:07:16We were financially helping them.
00:07:19There was no money.
00:07:20Rex was the sole financial supporter of the family.
00:07:24Victoria worked for Rex.
00:07:26Her job was obviously terminated when they arrested Rex and the office was closed.
00:07:35So you have a family completely turned upside down, and it basically says the way you think
00:07:41you've been living for the past 30 years is not really what's been happening.
00:07:44So they were distraught.
00:07:48And I personally thought they needed professional help with the psychological issues that they're
00:07:54dealing with.
00:07:54So I brought in Allison Winters, who's a therapist that my partner and I have known for 20-plus
00:07:59years and works with a lot of our clients.
00:08:02We trust her.
00:08:05You're on the speaker.
00:08:07I'm Allison Winter.
00:08:09I'm a psychotherapist, and I'm a family counselor.
00:08:12Bob Macedonio calls me up and asks,
00:08:15Have you ever heard of the Jilgo Beach murders?
00:08:17I said, Yes, of course.
00:08:19And he said,
00:08:20I need you to take on the family.
00:08:23At this point, their friends wanted nothing to do with them.
00:08:26Their family wanted nothing to do with them.
00:08:29And they really needed someone they can speak with.
00:08:32I am grounded in family work.
00:08:36It's important for me to understand the dynamic they were living in as a daughter, as a wife,
00:08:42as a son.
00:08:44So Rex had to be a part of this process.
00:08:47So in other words, you see the whole family as an emotionally interconnected unit.
00:08:50Sure.
00:08:51Absolutely.
00:09:09After the second search of the Heuermann home, and about a year after the arrest, Rex is done.
00:09:15He's tired.
00:09:17Rex shares with me, he had a conversation with his lawyer.
00:09:21He sat Mike Brown down, and he said, I need to tell you that I'm guilty of all of this.
00:09:27And he said, I had to tell him certain things were his words.
00:09:32So in the spring of 2025, Rex Schumann, through his attorney, starts discussing a proffer agreement with the district attorney's
00:09:40office.
00:09:41And what a proffer agreement is, is a defendant on any criminal case will come over and meet with the
00:09:47detectives or the task force in a fashion that is protected to the extent anything that is said at that
00:09:54proffer would not be able to be used at a trial against Rex Schumann.
00:10:00And the proffer sessions sets the table for plea negotiations to begin.
00:10:05And when we say plea negotiations, we're not talking a lightning of a sentence.
00:10:09You're doing life in jail without parole.
00:10:11That's not going to change.
00:10:12But there is a benefit to both sides to have a plea.
00:10:17You're sparing seven victims' families from hearing the gory, graphic details of what happened to their children, their sisters, their
00:10:24moms.
00:10:27The potential benefit to Rex would be you could kind of negotiate where you will be sentenced and how your
00:10:34sentence will be served.
00:10:35Also, the benefit to Rex is to protect the narrative of what his family hears.
00:10:41Whatever love they have left for him, I believe, would be erased if they heard the details of what he
00:10:48did to these young ladies.
00:11:02Come in.
00:11:03Hey.
00:11:04Hi.
00:11:05Asa, how are you?
00:11:07Good to see you.
00:11:09Here, have a seat.
00:11:11It's so good to see you.
00:11:12One of the conditions Rex had to take a plea was to meet with his wife and his daughter separately
00:11:18in a private meeting before making a public plea, and he would answer any questions.
00:11:24Nobody knows about this meeting.
00:11:25This was set up by Rex.
00:11:27He's been very supportive to the process of sitting with you so you can hear the truth from his mouth
00:11:36because you need that.
00:11:38I do.
00:11:39To believe, to live, to grow, to heal, and you need to hear it from him.
00:11:45Yes.
00:11:46And he owes you that.
00:11:47He owes you that.
00:11:48He does owe you.
00:11:48Yes.
00:11:49I want to hear the truth, period.
00:11:53I'm going to this meeting because I need to hear it.
00:11:57I want to hear it from his mouth.
00:11:59Okay.
00:11:59Because hearing him tell me, am I going to see it?
00:12:07We've worked so hard for this to happen.
00:12:09This is unprecedented.
00:12:10It is.
00:12:23Early on, when I recognized that as long as Rex was going to keep lying to his wife, there was
00:12:31no way I was going to be able to ground her because he has such a big influence on her.
00:12:37Anything Rex said overrode everything, so it wasn't denial.
00:12:40It was real to her.
00:12:41My husband's a family man.
00:12:43He's incapable of this.
00:12:44So I knew the more Rex fed her that, I'm innocent, she wouldn't be able to move on, and ultimately,
00:12:49that would have destroyed her existence.
00:12:52She needs to live and accept what she can, and she needs to move forward.
00:12:58We've been working for a very long time, two years and one month, to get to this moment.
00:13:05I'm scared.
00:13:07There's no doubt about that.
00:13:09I'm nervous.
00:13:12But I have questions to ask, and I'm going to need him to answer them for me.
00:13:18Number one is, did you kill any of these women?
00:13:22Then there would be, okay, how many of these women did you kill?
00:13:32I need to hear from him whether he did this or not.
00:13:37I can't process things I don't know.
00:13:40What we'll process is to see the truth, hear the truth.
00:13:45The hardest part of this whole story is that it's possible that I was married for 29 years to a
00:13:53serial killer.
00:14:13What is the next step for the prosecution of Blanca's Barnes case goes?
00:14:16Well, I mean, you're in the end of discovery, we're entering trial phase.
00:14:21I mean, you talk about the number of witnesses, the number of documents in this case, it's a dizzying amount
00:14:27of information.
00:14:28Without a doubt, the Long Island serial killer case and the trial of Rex Superman is going to be the
00:14:33biggest in Long Island history.
00:14:35We'll have over 100 witnesses coming in from 15 different states.
00:14:40There's never been so much interest in controversy surrounding a case.
00:14:47I mean, Gloria Allred showed up to advocate for the victim's families.
00:14:51The courthouse door should never be shut to any woman who is victimized by gender violence.
00:14:58It is long overdue to provide justice for vulnerable women who are missing and murdered.
00:15:04We gave the defense well over 100 terabytes of information alone.
00:15:09And if you took a terabyte and you printed out all that information, it would take you about 6.5
00:15:15million pages.
00:15:16So we have well over 120 of those terabytes.
00:15:20It's going to be one bombshell after the next.
00:15:23All these questions we have, everything we've been speculating about, if there is a trial, they will have to be
00:15:28addressed.
00:15:29Everything we don't know about, all the evidence they have that we're imagining they have, we're going to find out.
00:15:47Rex Heurman's attorneys are pushing to hold as many as five trials.
00:15:52Trial one, the first three of the Gilgo Four discovered Amber Costello, Megan Waterman and Melissa Bartholomey.
00:15:57A second trial for Maureen Brainerd Barnes and third, fourth and fifth trials for Jessica Taylor, Sandra Costillo and Valerie
00:16:03Mack.
00:16:03The danger of having count after count, victim after victim in the same trial is that smoke, there's fire mentality.
00:16:12They shouldn't be tried together.
00:16:34I want to have a seat.
00:16:48Long day.
00:16:49Yes.
00:16:50It's not every day you get to sit with a serial killer.
00:16:54What was the hardest part for you to hear?
00:16:56Well, I put a wall.
00:16:59What do you mean you put a wall?
00:17:00She called him Mr. Heurman.
00:17:02So his response was, oh, are we formal now?
00:17:07Mrs. L. Are up?
00:17:08Did you feel you were sitting across the table from a stranger?
00:17:13No.
00:17:14When he started talking, he started feeling like that's the Rex I know.
00:17:18But I didn't want to see that one.
00:17:20I wanted to see the one I needed to see.
00:17:22Paint a picture for us of what it was like to walk into that room.
00:17:27He looked very nervous.
00:17:29Very, very nervous.
00:17:31And, um, I said to him, so, Mr. Heurman, I understand that you are, uh, confessing to me on these
00:17:43murders.
00:17:44Can you please tell me how many of these women did you kill?
00:17:47He said eight.
00:17:49Eight?
00:17:51Was there any hesitation when he said eight?
00:17:54No, he just told me the answer.
00:17:57He said he killed eight women.
00:17:59Eight.
00:18:01Who was the eighth?
00:18:02Because he's charged with seven.
00:18:03I didn't ask.
00:18:05He sat and told you he killed eight?
00:18:07Yeah.
00:18:09He said I wasn't home during all of them.
00:18:13Were any of them killed in the house?
00:18:15He said yes, they were killed in his room downstairs.
00:18:18All except one.
00:18:20He said that he killed Sandra Castilla in the Dodge.
00:18:25That was his first murder.
00:18:27Before I married him.
00:18:34I said, uh, they said that you dismembered some bodies.
00:18:39Did you dismember them?
00:18:40And he said, yes, I did it.
00:18:42There are certain things, certain questions that I believed.
00:18:46Others, I'm not 100% sure.
00:18:49He said he never really intentionally tried to kill these women.
00:18:54He says he just killed them.
00:18:56No.
00:18:56But he doesn't, he doesn't know how he killed them.
00:19:02That's what you heard?
00:19:03No, is, is, is.
00:19:05I didn't hear that.
00:19:06What did you hear?
00:19:07He said the first one, I had no idea I was going to kill at that time.
00:19:11Right.
00:19:11I just randomly did it.
00:19:14But the others?
00:19:15He planned to kill them.
00:19:17I mean, some women he, he had sex with and he didn't kill them.
00:19:21And he said, he said that some women I had sex with and I did not kill.
00:19:25Knowing the wrecks you know since you're 18 years old,
00:19:30do you feel he expressed any remorse?
00:19:36No, no.
00:19:38Okay.
00:19:39How did you feel about his tears?
00:19:42I think the tears were for me.
00:19:46Not for the victims?
00:19:47No.
00:19:49Do you believe Rex got into a relationship with you, married you,
00:19:57because he was able to control and manipulate you?
00:20:01No.
00:20:02No.
00:20:03What did he say about his first wife?
00:20:06Remember?
00:20:07He said she was crazy and he couldn't.
00:20:10Go ahead.
00:20:11Right.
00:20:11And he couldn't control her.
00:20:12He couldn't control her.
00:20:14So think about that.
00:20:15Just sit with that for a minute, right?
00:20:16My first wife, she was crazy.
00:20:18I couldn't put up with her.
00:20:20I couldn't control her.
00:20:20What did you say?
00:20:21Do you remember?
00:20:22I said, um.
00:20:25Why did you choose me?
00:20:26Yeah.
00:20:27He said he loved me.
00:20:30Do you believe he loved you?
00:20:34Yes, I do.
00:20:36Do you think that he has any remorse for destroying your family's life?
00:20:49Yes, I saw the tears.
00:20:54He lived a double life.
00:20:57I saw the man that worked hard, took care of his family.
00:21:02But anyone who takes a life, I don't think that they deserve to die.
00:21:14I think that they deserve to be forced to face the reality of what they've done.
00:21:23All of these girls that were found on Gilgo Beach, they were somebody's daughter.
00:21:30They were somebody's sister.
00:21:34They were girls.
00:21:47Awesome.
00:21:48Yes.
00:21:50Here we are, 26 months after the arrest.
00:21:53Do you now believe that your husband is the Gilgo Beach serial killer?
00:22:02Yes, I believe he's the Gilgo Beach killer.
00:22:30The peace and beauty of Fire Island was shattered today by the grisly discovery of two human legs minus a
00:22:36body.
00:22:36Police have no clues as to who the legs discovered at Davis Park belonged to.
00:22:41Investigators say the legs with red painted toenails are definitely female, but that's all they know so far.
00:22:50Today, authorities identified one of the victims in the Gilgo Beach murders, her remains found nearly three decades ago off
00:22:58of Fire Island.
00:22:59We were able to identify Fire Island Jane Doe as Karen Vergata, who was 34 years old at the time
00:23:06of her disappearance.
00:23:08Vergata disappeared in February 1996.
00:23:10She was 34, living in New York City, and authorities said, like other Gilgo Beach victims, a sex worker.
00:23:16Her legs were found in Davis Park.
00:23:20Her skull is found at Gilgo, where Rex Hewerman's other alleged victims were disposed of like trash.
00:23:30Karen Vergata's stepsister has said,
00:23:33I'm glad she's found.
00:23:34It's nice to have closure.
00:23:36We always wondered what happened.
00:23:38She also explained Vergata's father once hired a private investigator to try and find her, but died never knowing the
00:23:46fate of his daughter.
00:23:48Still unknown how or why Vergata was killed, and more importantly, whether accused serial killer Rex Hewerman was involved in
00:23:55her death.
00:23:56It's important to note that there are no charges at this time.
00:24:00We are going to continue to work this particular case as we did the Gilgo 4 investigation.
00:24:07Let's talk about the 8th victim.
00:24:10Karen Vergata is the question mark.
00:24:12We know that she was murdered sometime between February, Valentine's Day of 1996.
00:24:18Sure.
00:24:19And when she was discovered in April of 1996, we also know that Rex Hewerman married Asa Elleroon on April
00:24:3113th, 1996, in Sweden.
00:24:36Now, Asa and Chris travel ahead without Rex Hewerman to Sweden.
00:24:45The timeline indicates Rex Hewerman stays behind, murders Karen Vergata, then flies to Sweden to join his pregnant wife, his
00:24:58adopted son, and marries Asa Elleroon.
00:25:03How did he explain that to you?
00:25:06Am I allowed to talk about this?
00:25:08I don't know if he'll ever be indicted for the 8th.
00:25:13It's not public, the 8th, because they don't have evidence.
00:25:16No, it's a part of the plea deal.
00:25:18He will admit to 8 murders.
00:25:20Okay.
00:25:22I would say that the killing of Karen Vergata before he was getting married was a pivot point to make
00:25:30him more comfortable in future killings.
00:25:33I don't think he cared that he was about to go get married to his pregnant wife.
00:25:40He divides the worlds.
00:25:42He said they're two separate entities.
00:25:45He doesn't regulate emotions like you and I.
00:25:47So when he was doing what he was doing, was he thinking of his family?
00:25:51No.
00:25:52Was that a stressor?
00:25:54Subconsciously?
00:25:55Absolutely.
00:25:56Did he recognize it at the time?
00:25:58No.
00:25:58In his mind, it was time that Asa will be away planning their wedding so he was free to do
00:26:03what he wanted and fulfill his own fantasy.
00:26:06I think that was pivotal to making it easier and easier to move forward.
00:26:10And it became more of a game inside his mind.
00:26:14Prepping, timing, playtime, clean up.
00:26:19It all became a methodical second life, so to speak.
00:26:31Rex has said that the only one that he didn't plan was the first one.
00:26:36So that would mean that starting with Karen Vergata, that was planned and everyone was planned thereafter.
00:26:43No.
00:26:44No.
00:26:45That's not the way I understand it.
00:26:47Planned or unplanned?
00:26:48No, no.
00:26:49No, no.
00:26:49He said...
00:26:50I asked him.
00:26:51I asked him.
00:26:53Hold on.
00:27:02Hello?
00:27:04How are you, Jill?
00:27:06I'm doing much better.
00:27:09Okay.
00:27:10So the...
00:27:13So, uh, what?
00:27:18Yes, well, yes, we're on speaker.
00:27:21So I have one question for you.
00:27:25Sure.
00:27:27I'd like to know when was the first planned event?
00:27:35I had gone in hand with a wedding dress to Sweden.
00:27:43You were meeting me on the last week of the vacation.
00:27:47I took a three-week vacation that year.
00:27:52She flew down how long before you?
00:27:55I had to be a week or two.
00:27:58Two.
00:28:01And what year was that?
00:28:0496.
00:28:05Right.
00:28:08Rex?
00:28:09Yes.
00:28:09Um, just so you understand, what we're trying to do is help Asa process through the two separate lives.
00:28:19Sometimes there are stressors in your life that trigger things to do things.
00:28:28So we're doing a little live therapy session here.
00:28:32She was about approximately two months pregnant.
00:28:37Was that stressful, knowing that you're having a baby coming?
00:28:42Can I see a girl with a crazy pregnant wife?
00:28:45Um, yeah, I'll be kidding, dear.
00:28:48Yeah, so you're both.
00:28:50That's what we wanted.
00:28:52Can you share with her to help her understand, just emotionally maybe, like, what you were feeling, what you were
00:28:58going through when you were home?
00:29:03Alone.
00:29:05Before you flew out to marry her.
00:29:09Yeah, I understand what you're trying to do.
00:29:13Um, I just don't have a specific date that I can say about anything at the moment.
00:29:21You've got one minute left.
00:29:23Uh, one minute to go.
00:29:27So, anyway, um, I didn't want to scare you off, because I get a little confused sometimes.
00:29:35I've known you since 1981.
00:29:38I think if you haven't scared me off right now, you'll be not going to.
00:29:43I know.
00:29:46I know that.
00:29:51In her heart, do I think she'll ever let him go?
00:29:54No, because she didn't know him that way.
00:29:56She never saw that side of him.
00:29:59She only saw the man who she believed was saving her from a life of trauma.
00:30:12When Asa was born, we have to realize nobody wanted her.
00:30:16They adopted her into an American family.
00:30:19She never felt wanted or loved.
00:30:22She always felt less than.
00:30:24She always felt different.
00:30:26Asa comes from years of abuse, years of neglect.
00:30:29She went from one trauma to the next, to the next.
00:30:35When I think back to my childhood, my father was always working.
00:30:41He would end up traveling, you know, for, like, two, three months at a time.
00:30:47A lot of my friends had older brothers.
00:30:50And the older brothers were always keeping an eye on their little sisters.
00:30:54But no one was watching out for me.
00:30:58I'm 16 years old.
00:31:00I was out one day.
00:31:02There was a bunch of boys on a street corner, hanging out.
00:31:07And one of them pulled me behind my house and molested me.
00:31:15I couldn't get away.
00:31:20I quit school not too long after that.
00:31:26I also tried to commit suicide.
00:31:31Not something I'm proud of.
00:31:37So if there's anybody that knows anything about what bad men are capable of doing, that would be me.
00:31:46When I first met Asa, she was broken.
00:31:49It's crying from guilt.
00:31:54Guilt that I wasn't a good enough wife.
00:31:59In total shock.
00:32:00What would anyone do if they're in my shoes?
00:32:06Denial.
00:32:07And I go to bed at night and I wake up the next morning saying to myself,
00:32:11girl, it didn't happen.
00:32:13Your husband, Rex Heuermann, did not do this.
00:32:18I've noticed her cognitive dissonance.
00:32:21Asa was placing reality onto what she needed to believe.
00:32:25He's a family man, period.
00:32:29I'm convinced that the person they're looking for is not a family man.
00:32:37Rex was the kind of person that you could call, even if you just wanted to talk, and that's it.
00:32:45He was the one person I could count on when I needed something, and he was there.
00:32:57Charming Rex comes in, he says, move into my home.
00:33:02She went with what was safe, because she needed to survive.
00:33:10She never challenged him.
00:33:12He would say something, and she would just take it in and believe it.
00:33:15And when I would ask her why, because he's my husband.
00:33:20And that's an honest answer of hers.
00:33:23I do believe there's a part of Asa that will never accept that he murdered these women.
00:33:31She would rather create something that works for her in her mind than something that's more real,
00:33:39and that's a process in itself.
00:33:41Believing that she can have any healthy relationship with Rex in the future is delusional thinking.
00:33:47We need to work on that.
00:33:50She clearly grieves differently than Victoria.
00:33:53So now, Victoria has to hear the truth.
00:33:57She wants closure.
00:33:59Whatever that looks like, she's ready for this to be done.
00:34:15Ever since my dad was arrested, it has become a combination of humiliation, confusion, sadness,
00:34:25and uncertainty, all in a whole bowl of, like, fruit salad or something, just all those things.
00:34:33Nobody really thinks about the daughter of the serial killer.
00:34:38There is actually artwork produced by Victoria.
00:34:42People are just making up stories about it.
00:34:45This horrifying monster with blood eating on the breasts of this woman.
00:34:50They were writing my story right in front of us on the news.
00:34:53Your hair, your DNA, whatever it is, is on the bodies.
00:34:56Why aren't you involved?
00:34:58All I knew was everything I knew was gone.
00:35:02Victoria, do you have anything to say about why you're here today?
00:35:05We're not going to turn this into some kind of sideshow.
00:35:10Victoria has told me that she and her father have a very strong relationship.
00:35:15Her protective fantasies about the father that she knows are very real to her.
00:35:22My initial observations of Victoria, she was in total shock.
00:35:31Completely blindsided and hurt.
00:35:34I feel like I definitely do jump between depression and anger a lot.
00:35:40My self-esteem and self-worth is just tanked.
00:35:43Like, why am I even here anymore?
00:35:47She's definitely traumatized by it.
00:35:49It took me months to feel anything about this case.
00:35:55Like, this stuff does not, you know, hit just like that.
00:35:59It takes a while to actually set it.
00:36:02So, you know, like right now, I just don't have it yet.
00:36:07Her brain processes it on her terms.
00:36:11And she needed to do it her way.
00:36:20About 26 months after the arrest,
00:36:23I got a call from Allison saying that he wanted to meet me.
00:36:29He wanted to sit face to face and, you know, admit his crimes.
00:36:36And give us time before he confessed to the world.
00:36:52Walking into that room, um...
00:36:57I saw my dad, the man, not necessarily the monster.
00:37:03They, uh, set up his handcuffs to the chair and everything.
00:37:09What was the first question you asked your father?
00:37:23What was the first question you asked your father?
00:37:29Something that was really important to me
00:37:31and really just how I'm going to get past this was
00:37:33were any of them, how many were there?
00:37:36He said eight.
00:37:38Um, he did tell me the first murder wasn't planned.
00:37:44In 1993, he killed Sandra Castilla
00:37:48in his car at the time.
00:37:50Do you remember that car?
00:37:52Um, I remember as a kid, uh,
00:37:55he had a, um, a Dodge Ram Charger.
00:37:59Did you ever ride in that Dodge Ram?
00:38:01I did.
00:38:02As a kid, we did ride in the Ram Charger.
00:38:08So, besides Sandra Castilla,
00:38:11he did say that they were all in,
00:38:12the rest were in the house.
00:38:14You know, in the, in the kill room.
00:38:18And he said,
00:38:19Karen, Valerie, and Jessica
00:38:23were, um,
00:38:26murdered and mutilated
00:38:27and dismembered in, in that room.
00:38:33And my dad has confirmed
00:38:35that one of them was killed in, in, in their bed.
00:38:43I also asked him about his planning document
00:38:45that was created in 2000
00:38:47before Valerie Mack's murder.
00:38:50My dad told me
00:38:52he first created that document
00:38:55as a way to try to distract himself
00:38:59from having to actually do the act itself.
00:39:02If he, you know, puts it on paper
00:39:04and acts it out in his head
00:39:06that, that would curb the zone,
00:39:09you know, curb the urge.
00:39:12On the planning document,
00:39:14under problems,
00:39:16he writes photos, question mark.
00:39:18And under supplies, he writes photo film.
00:39:22Um, he said he took two pictures,
00:39:26only two out of all eight murders
00:39:28he'd only took two pictures.
00:39:31But nobody's seen these pictures.
00:39:33He destroyed them promptly afterwards.
00:39:37They were long destroyed.
00:39:40Did you ever ask him
00:39:41why he did those horrific things?
00:39:44He said that his demons got to him.
00:39:47When he was in a certain opportunity
00:39:49or there was a certain catalyst
00:39:50in front of him
00:39:51that would start to create
00:39:52these, these dark urges,
00:39:55it was a sickness.
00:39:58I asked him, I'm like,
00:39:59well, did you see them
00:40:00as somebody's daughter?
00:40:03He told me he didn't even see them
00:40:04as human.
00:40:11But did you ask him,
00:40:13I'm your daughter.
00:40:15Did you ever think of me
00:40:16when you were doing this?
00:40:18Yes.
00:40:20He said he doesn't think about
00:40:21the family.
00:40:23He had never thought about me
00:40:25when he was doing it.
00:40:27They were completely kept separate
00:40:29and he never let the two cross.
00:40:33So I'm like, okay,
00:40:34he's a loving dad.
00:40:35Dad and the serial killer.
00:40:38How, how did he manage
00:40:39that the two never crossed?
00:40:43Seven women have been murdered
00:40:45in this house.
00:40:48It's hard to stomach.
00:41:15I had a lot,
00:41:16I had like a whole,
00:41:16almost two years
00:41:18to have mentally prepared me
00:41:20for this.
00:41:21The uncertainty of not knowing
00:41:23was a lot harder
00:41:25than eventually finding out.
00:41:31With everything that has happened,
00:41:33how am I supposed to just
00:41:33go back to normal, you know?
00:41:36So,
00:41:38I do accept his guilt
00:41:41and the crimes that he has,
00:41:43the crimes that he has done.
00:41:49What are you doing?
00:41:51I am
00:41:53lighting some,
00:41:54some sage down here.
00:41:56Uh,
00:41:58What does the sage do?
00:42:00Uh, just to,
00:42:01to cleanse the area
00:42:02of, um,
00:42:04after hearing that
00:42:05some of the victims
00:42:06were killed,
00:42:07killed down here,
00:42:09especially in,
00:42:10in this room.
00:42:13Um,
00:42:17I kind of,
00:42:18In here?
00:42:19Yeah,
00:42:19I just want to
00:42:21clear out the
00:42:25energy
00:42:26of it all
00:42:27and send,
00:42:28you know,
00:42:28and hopefully the,
00:42:30any linger,
00:42:31you know,
00:42:31any,
00:42:32any other spirits
00:42:34are pure,
00:42:35they can,
00:42:35you know,
00:42:36finally rest.
00:42:39She was just
00:42:40very kind-hearted,
00:42:41you know?
00:42:42She made mistakes.
00:42:42Who doesn't?
00:42:43She didn't deserve this.
00:42:44Nobody deserves this.
00:42:45She's just a beautiful,
00:42:46beautiful,
00:42:47loving human being
00:42:49and I,
00:42:50I miss her terribly.
00:42:53It kind of makes sense now
00:42:54after hearing
00:42:55that some of them
00:42:57were killed here.
00:42:58There were just,
00:42:58some moments were just,
00:43:00the energy cut,
00:43:01there was just really...
00:43:03You were feeling it?
00:43:04Yeah.
00:43:04It brings me happiness
00:43:06to know that he
00:43:07will not be having
00:43:08access to any
00:43:09other girls.
00:43:10It brings me peace
00:43:12to know that my sister
00:43:13is laying where she
00:43:14should be with my family
00:43:15and that if my parents
00:43:17were here
00:43:18and my sister was here,
00:43:21she would say thank you.
00:43:24The lingering anger,
00:43:25the lingering emotions,
00:43:28everything,
00:43:29you just kind of,
00:43:30just here.
00:43:32I remember
00:43:33as a kid
00:43:34I would watch TV,
00:43:36plays, video games
00:43:37in that area
00:43:38and that is about
00:43:39maybe 10 feet
00:43:41from where
00:43:42those women
00:43:43were mutilated
00:43:44or murdered.
00:43:46That image was in my head
00:43:47of just,
00:43:48you know,
00:43:49yeah,
00:43:49I was watching TV
00:43:50right where he,
00:43:51you know,
00:43:52he did all these things.
00:43:58It's him.
00:44:00You want to get Asa?
00:44:01Yeah, I'll bring her down.
00:44:05An incarcerated individual
00:44:06at Suffolk County
00:44:08Correctional Facility.
00:44:09This call is subject
00:44:10to recording
00:44:11and monitoring.
00:44:15Hey there.
00:44:17Hey, how are you?
00:44:18I'm good.
00:44:20I'm good.
00:44:20I'm standing here
00:44:21with your daughter.
00:44:28She's hanging in there.
00:44:29We were just talking
00:44:30about what it was like
00:44:32for her
00:44:33and for you
00:44:35after the meeting.
00:44:42It's difficult
00:44:43to go into
00:44:45details about that
00:44:46because there's such
00:44:48an array
00:44:49of mixed emotions.
00:44:51Sure.
00:44:54Is Asa coming down?
00:44:58Are you allowed
00:44:58to call back?
00:44:59Because I know
00:45:00you're going to run
00:45:00out of time.
00:45:02All right,
00:45:03I'll call you back.
00:45:05All right,
00:45:05let's go first out of stairs.
00:45:14Hold on.
00:45:16Camera space.
00:45:19Ready, guys?
00:45:20Yeah.
00:45:25We're extrobed.
00:45:28An incarcerated individual
00:45:29at this call
00:45:30is subject to recording
00:45:31and monitoring.
00:45:34Hey there.
00:45:35Hi.
00:45:39We even have Christopher
00:45:40next to us.
00:45:42Mr. Christian,
00:45:43how are you doing?
00:45:44I'm doing all right.
00:45:49So we're all sitting
00:45:50here together
00:45:51in the den.
00:45:54Hey, John.
00:45:56How are you doing, dear?
00:45:57I'm doing okay.
00:46:02Did he provide clarity?
00:46:04You needed to hear it
00:46:06from him?
00:46:07Yes and no.
00:46:09I mean, clarity comes
00:46:10from much more
00:46:11than just him saying
00:46:12something, you know.
00:46:14But him saying it,
00:46:16now it helps my mind
00:46:18because now that I know,
00:46:21then it's easier
00:46:22for me to move forward.
00:46:29I don't want to say something.
00:46:30I don't want to say something.
00:46:30Go ahead.
00:46:31Hold on.
00:46:32Christopher's next to me.
00:46:33He wants to talk.
00:46:35I don't know what else
00:46:36to say, but...
00:46:39What?
00:46:41You need to take charge
00:46:43because you know
00:46:44how to talk
00:46:46the best out of everybody
00:46:48sitting there.
00:46:49You know how to talk
00:46:50about how you feel.
00:46:52Right.
00:46:54You start.
00:46:56Great idea.
00:46:57Because you know
00:46:59the other two sitting there
00:47:00are going to sit there
00:47:02and stare at each other
00:47:03for at least a good 20 minutes
00:47:04before either one of them
00:47:06say anything.
00:47:08Right.
00:47:09That about summing up.
00:47:11Why was it important
00:47:12for you, Rex,
00:47:13to sit down with them
00:47:16and answer their questions?
00:47:20It was something
00:47:21that we needed to do
00:47:23face to face
00:47:24and be honest
00:47:26with each other.
00:47:28It needed to be done
00:47:31person to person,
00:47:32heart to heart.
00:47:36So I went in
00:47:37dressed in some open book.
00:47:42Is that what you guys felt?
00:47:43Do you feel that?
00:47:45That he was receptive
00:47:46to your questions?
00:47:47Yeah.
00:47:48Yes.
00:47:49Good.
00:47:51Were you surprised
00:47:52by any of the questions
00:47:53that they asked?
00:47:57Well, Victoria's question
00:47:59about communion
00:48:02that took me by surprise.
00:48:14I figured I'd take my
00:48:16opportunity to ask
00:48:17when I, you know,
00:48:17when I had it.
00:48:19He said I wasn't born yet
00:48:21when Sandra Castilla
00:48:23and Karen Vergato
00:48:24were murdered.
00:48:25I was three
00:48:26when Valerie Mack
00:48:27was murdered.
00:48:29I was six
00:48:30when Jessica Taylor
00:48:31was murdered.
00:48:32I was ten
00:48:34when Maureen
00:48:34Brainer Barnes
00:48:35was murdered.
00:48:37I was twelve
00:48:38when Melissa Bartholome
00:48:39was murdered.
00:48:41And I was thirteen
00:48:43when Megan Waterman
00:48:45and Amber Castilla
00:48:47were murdered.
00:48:55Why do you think
00:48:56he stopped killing?
00:48:58Rex told me
00:48:59that toward
00:49:00the last two killings
00:49:02he knew he wasn't
00:49:03getting the same gratification.
00:49:04He wasn't
00:49:06receiving the adrenaline rush.
00:49:08And by his last kill
00:49:10he knew he was gonna stop.
00:49:11And I looked at him
00:49:13and I said,
00:49:13well, I beg to differ
00:49:14a little bit.
00:49:14Look at the timing.
00:49:16Shannon Gilbert
00:49:17had gone missing.
00:49:18And that family,
00:49:20they kept that case alive
00:49:21until someone
00:49:22paid attention.
00:49:24And because of that
00:49:25his killings were found.
00:49:27So it became
00:49:27so sensational
00:49:28and it became
00:49:29so newsworthy
00:49:30that subconsciously
00:49:32or consciously
00:49:34that's when he decided
00:49:35to stop killing.
00:49:36I think he was
00:49:37very concerned
00:49:38about getting caught
00:49:39and I think he knew
00:49:40he was gonna get caught.
00:49:41And it's been
00:49:43fourteen years.
00:49:47Do you think
00:49:48it's possible
00:49:49that your dad
00:49:50murdered more
00:49:51victims?
00:49:53I don't know.
00:49:57But
00:49:59one was too many.
00:50:02One was
00:50:02too many.
00:50:17take us back
00:50:18to the beginning.
00:50:19The first time
00:50:20you came face-to-face
00:50:21with Rex Heuerman.
00:50:23You walk
00:50:24into a private room
00:50:25and you see
00:50:26a six-foot-four,
00:50:28270-pound
00:50:29serial killer
00:50:31sitting there
00:50:32handcuffed,
00:50:33shackled.
00:50:37So I walk
00:50:38into the jail.
00:50:39I go through
00:50:40security.
00:50:41Rex is already
00:50:43sitting there.
00:50:46And he was
00:50:47absolutely
00:50:49analyzing me
00:50:50in his mind.
00:50:53He looked at me
00:50:55and he said to me
00:50:56like he was special.
00:50:58Have you ever
00:50:59sat with a serial
00:51:00killer before?
00:51:01I know his body
00:51:03language and I
00:51:04know where it's
00:51:04coming from
00:51:05and it's coming
00:51:05from the narcissism.
00:51:07So I looked
00:51:08right at him
00:51:08and I paused
00:51:10and I said
00:51:12I have not
00:51:14but you're
00:51:15all the same.
00:51:16I said you're
00:51:17not that special.
00:51:19And he looked
00:51:20at me and he
00:51:20just kind of
00:51:21froze.
00:51:23And then
00:51:24eventually you
00:51:24build a rapport,
00:51:25you build trust,
00:51:26you build a
00:51:28connection.
00:51:30And finally
00:51:31it happened.
00:51:33he looked at me
00:51:35right in the face,
00:51:36right in the eyes
00:51:37and he turned
00:51:37his whole body
00:51:38toward me.
00:51:40And he goes,
00:51:41do you have any
00:51:41idea what it's
00:51:43like to want
00:51:43to kill someone?
00:51:45To hurt,
00:51:46to kill,
00:51:47to play God
00:51:48and end
00:51:49somebody's life?
00:51:50You don't know
00:51:51what that's like.
00:51:54after that,
00:51:55Rex is sharing
00:51:57everything with me,
00:51:58details about the crimes,
00:52:00his mind,
00:52:01how he thinks.
00:52:02So the deeper
00:52:03that gets,
00:52:04the darker
00:52:04that gets.
00:52:07did he talk about
00:52:08what it is
00:52:08that brings him
00:52:09to that point
00:52:10where he decides
00:52:11to kill
00:52:11the moment
00:52:13he chooses
00:52:13to take a life?
00:52:15Why he does not
00:52:16know,
00:52:16I've asked.
00:52:17I've asked the why.
00:52:18They really don't
00:52:19have answers
00:52:19in those moments.
00:52:21They don't.
00:52:22He doesn't know
00:52:23why.
00:52:23The only thing
00:52:24that he's able
00:52:25to really come up
00:52:26with is that
00:52:27he gets to know
00:52:29them as people.
00:52:30If he gets to know
00:52:31someone,
00:52:31he gets vulnerable.
00:52:32He's not in total control.
00:52:33So if he felt
00:52:35he was losing
00:52:35a sense of control,
00:52:36what would he do?
00:52:38He would pursue
00:52:39with a kill,
00:52:40which was planned
00:52:41because he set up
00:52:42his house for it prior.
00:52:43So he met them once.
00:52:44He got to know them,
00:52:45had a transaction,
00:52:47set up a second time,
00:52:48and had his four-day plan.
00:52:51Day one was the prep,
00:52:52which he cleaned
00:52:53the entire basement,
00:52:56and he would prepare
00:52:59for his time
00:53:00with them in the house.
00:53:02The second day,
00:53:03he's with the victim,
00:53:05which he says
00:53:06was always very enjoyable,
00:53:07and he was very kind
00:53:10until they were
00:53:10going to be murdered.
00:53:12And then a lot of it
00:53:13was the post-mortem,
00:53:15his playtime.
00:53:17And that night
00:53:18was the dump.
00:53:20The third day
00:53:21was his cleanup day.
00:53:23He had to take
00:53:24every single thing
00:53:25he used,
00:53:27tools,
00:53:28tarps,
00:53:30clothes,
00:53:31everything,
00:53:32and he would dispose of it
00:53:34so there was,
00:53:34in his mind,
00:53:35no evidence.
00:53:37He would say,
00:53:38well, day four
00:53:38is in case of emergencies.
00:53:40I just need the extra day.
00:53:42It's a four-day high.
00:53:45It's a four-day adrenaline rush.
00:53:51And then he'd fly out
00:53:52to his family.
00:53:55And over time,
00:53:56he would try to perfect
00:53:57his process.
00:54:00Exactly.
00:54:03He told me
00:54:04that he would take
00:54:04a stopwatch
00:54:05before he would dump
00:54:06a body at Gilgo Beach.
00:54:10And he went
00:54:11from his first kill,
00:54:12two minutes
00:54:13and 32 seconds,
00:54:16to his last kill
00:54:18at Gilgo.
00:54:18He would hit the timer,
00:54:21dump the body,
00:54:21get back in the truck,
00:54:22and hit the timer again.
00:54:2537 seconds.
00:54:27He's so meticulous,
00:54:29detail-oriented,
00:54:31pathological,
00:54:32control,
00:54:33domination.
00:54:33He had to beat himself
00:54:35in his own game.
00:54:36Clearly,
00:54:37he enjoyed killing,
00:54:38and it became
00:54:39a sickness for him.
00:54:41It became an outlet.
00:54:42It became an obsession.
00:54:48Session 12.
00:54:50Today,
00:54:51Rex opened up
00:54:51about his childhood,
00:54:53his impressionable years.
00:54:55Rex doesn't remember
00:54:57much of his childhood,
00:54:58but some of those memories
00:55:00are starting to return
00:55:01as we talk about it
00:55:02more and more.
00:55:04How did he describe
00:55:05his father?
00:55:05He was non-approachable,
00:55:08very domineering,
00:55:09very controlling,
00:55:10loud.
00:55:11He was always being yelled at,
00:55:13screamed at.
00:55:14He did nothing right.
00:55:17He was a man
00:55:18of integrity.
00:55:20He spent time
00:55:22with his children.
00:55:23Whenever Dad was home,
00:55:25they would be in the garage,
00:55:26hanging out with Dad.
00:55:28He fought in World War II.
00:55:30He was a co-pilot.
00:55:32We are through.
00:55:33One of Rex's favorite TV shows
00:55:36is Hogan's Heroes.
00:55:39It reminded him of his father.
00:55:43Look at me.
00:55:44I only work here.
00:55:46Airplanes,
00:55:47pilots.
00:55:49Rex had always wanted
00:55:51to join the Air Force,
00:55:52but he couldn't
00:55:54because he was dyslexic.
00:55:57So he was disappointed.
00:56:01He died when Rex was 12.
00:56:04He had been ill,
00:56:07but it was a sudden death,
00:56:09though,
00:56:09for everybody.
00:56:10His dad was very critical of him,
00:56:13and I do believe
00:56:14it manifested into
00:56:16why he's very
00:56:18methodical,
00:56:19OCD,
00:56:21obsessive on certain things,
00:56:23because he was criticized
00:56:24so much.
00:56:26The tabloids ran a story
00:56:28that Rex was a mama's boy.
00:56:30Tell me about
00:56:31Dolores Heuermann.
00:56:32Was she hard on him?
00:56:34Dolores was not hard
00:56:36on Rex at all, okay?
00:56:38She had five children.
00:56:41Every single one of them
00:56:42had a uniqueness to them,
00:56:44and she...
00:56:45she was proud of them.
00:56:47How did he describe his mother?
00:56:52Not available.
00:56:55His mother wasn't
00:56:56emotionally available for him.
00:56:59She was self-absorbed
00:57:00and detached
00:57:01from any emotions
00:57:03that he had
00:57:04or any grief
00:57:05in regards to
00:57:06his own dad.
00:57:07He says he pretty much
00:57:09raised himself.
00:57:10Dad passes away.
00:57:11Mom's trying
00:57:12to run a house
00:57:14with five children.
00:57:15It was chaos in the house.
00:57:19So Rex didn't have
00:57:20much of a voice.
00:57:22He wasn't really heard
00:57:23as a child.
00:57:25And I go,
00:57:26what did you do?
00:57:27He held it all in.
00:57:29He goes,
00:57:30I keep it here.
00:57:33When did Rex first tell you
00:57:35he began having
00:57:36dark thoughts?
00:57:38So Rex in
00:57:39later high school
00:57:40shares with me
00:57:41he starts having thoughts
00:57:42that he knew
00:57:43weren't healthy.
00:57:44He did not know
00:57:45what they were per se.
00:57:47He did not know
00:57:49how violent they were.
00:57:51But he knew
00:57:52his thinking wasn't right.
00:57:55Rex knew
00:57:56there was a piece
00:57:56of him missing.
00:57:57He didn't know
00:57:58what that piece was.
00:58:00He couldn't put it
00:58:01into words.
00:58:03So he started
00:58:05pornography,
00:58:07books on death.
00:58:08He became very fascinated
00:58:09with dissecting
00:58:10a human body.
00:58:12and the sex
00:58:13and the pornography
00:58:14and the human body
00:58:15and all of that
00:58:16in a mind
00:58:17that's not healthy
00:58:18is a very dangerous recipe.
00:58:21There was one session
00:58:22in particular
00:58:23he told me
00:58:24about a book.
00:58:25It's called
00:58:25Death Scenes.
00:58:27It was hard
00:58:27to look at.
00:58:29It's bodies mutilated,
00:58:31heads cut off,
00:58:33arms cut off,
00:58:34hundreds and hundreds
00:58:35of wounds everywhere,
00:58:37pure mutilation.
00:58:39That's what was
00:58:40fascinating him.
00:58:41That's what was
00:58:41feeding his mind.
00:58:43There was no
00:58:44healthy sexual
00:58:47experiences in his life.
00:58:48Maybe he witnessed
00:58:49an unhealthy
00:58:51events
00:58:52that he wasn't able
00:58:53to process right.
00:58:54Sex and violence
00:58:55went hand in hand
00:58:56for him
00:58:56somewhere subconsciously.
00:58:58It goes one layer,
00:58:59one layer,
00:59:00one layer.
00:59:00One thought
00:59:01feeds another thought,
00:59:02feeds another thought,
00:59:03feeds another thought,
00:59:04deeper and deeper
00:59:05and deeper
00:59:05to more and more evil.
00:59:07He couldn't put
00:59:08the brakes on it.
00:59:09He had no control
00:59:10of stopping it.
00:59:11It overrides him.
00:59:13He kept it all inside,
00:59:15fed his own addiction,
00:59:16his own demons,
00:59:20and it led him
00:59:21to a place
00:59:22he hurt other people
00:59:25brutally,
00:59:27violently.
00:59:28His outlet was
00:59:35to kill.
00:59:37to kill him.
00:59:47Dear Mr. Douglas,
00:59:49I hope this message
00:59:50finds you well.
00:59:52John Douglas is this
00:59:53legendary criminal profiler.
00:59:55He wrote this seminal book
00:59:57called Mindhunter,
00:59:59and that Rex Hureman
01:00:00referenced Mindhunter
01:00:01several times
01:00:02in his planning document.
01:00:05I'm currently working with Rex Huberman, often referred to as the Gilgo Beach serial killer.
01:00:12Mr. Huberman has studied your books. In fact, he and I discussed Mindhunter often.
01:00:19We're trying to get to the root cause of his fantasies, which created his urges to kill.
01:00:25He can't explain why he did this? Is he a true psychopath? I don't know.
01:00:32I know there's a chemical component, a genetic component, family component.
01:00:37There's a little bit of everything overlapping at once.
01:00:41I would love to talk to you more and get your expert opinion on this topic.
01:00:52Allison, how are you?
01:00:53Hi, John. How are you?
01:00:54Welcome, welcome. Come on in.
01:00:56Thank you. Thank you for having me.
01:00:57It's great for coming here. Thank you.
01:00:58I have your book. I do. I have your book.
01:01:01I was wondering who bought my book.
01:01:03That was me.
01:01:05What you were able to do was amazing, getting to interview the, not only the subject in the case, but
01:01:10the family.
01:01:11I've never done that before. I usually, I'll interview the subject.
01:01:14Maybe sometimes he's already incarcerated.
01:01:16And the victims, they deal with victims of violent crime.
01:01:18But this, you're really, you know, it's great.
01:01:21That's why I was so excited to come speak with you.
01:01:24Because it is a different perspective.
01:01:26I'm grounded in family systems.
01:01:28So my goal is to take trauma of families, whatever the trauma is, and to help them navigate to hopefully
01:01:37a healthier place so they can move on.
01:01:39This specific family, Asa, is so loyal, so dependent on Rex, where I realized very early on that I needed
01:01:49him to help me help her, because the denial was thick.
01:01:53But Asa always says to me, how on earth can he call me to make sure I got to Vermont
01:01:59safely, call me three to four times a day, show up at work, live his daily life?
01:02:04How does he jump from one mind to the other lines?
01:02:11They do not identify with these victims like you and I, I would do.
01:02:16In fact, I used to have major arguments with law enforcement.
01:02:19Don't polygraph, do not polygraph these guys.
01:02:22These crimes are justifiable in their mind.
01:02:25So you're not going to get any reaction out of them.
01:02:28Interesting.
01:02:30I was involved in the BTK investigation, first in 1979 and then in 1984, did the analysis.
01:02:38Very similar, you know, with Rex here, children, each lived in the same small house.
01:02:44Each house was originally their parents' home, which is very, very unique.
01:02:51BTK, he surfaced somewhere in his late 20s too.
01:02:54Very similar types of backgrounds, the fantasies.
01:02:58But if I would have Dennis Rader here and Rex here, I believe that Rader would be jealous of Rex.
01:03:07Why is that?
01:03:08The ultimate with these subjects is to keep a victim for a period of time.
01:03:13In the fantasy, they have them locked up.
01:03:16They have them in a room.
01:03:17And that was a strong fantasy with Dennis Rader.
01:03:20But he didn't have that room.
01:03:22He didn't have that location.
01:03:24So here you have Rex.
01:03:25He has the place to do whatever he wants to do, carry out his sadistic fantasies.
01:03:30I don't know if he told you any of this about fantasy, how they get heavy into fantasy.
01:03:34Because that's how it all begins.
01:03:38With fantasy, everything works.
01:03:40Everything is perfect in the fantasy.
01:03:41And they have what we call a preferential victim.
01:03:46Preferential victim may be a certain size, a petite color.
01:03:51So I'm on the hunt.
01:03:53And these predators do hunt.
01:03:54They hunt looking for victims that they're sure they can get away with.
01:03:59You look into a crowd differently than he would look into a crowd.
01:04:02He is the lion on a Serengeti plane.
01:04:04He's not going to go after the water buffalo that's strong and healthy.
01:04:09The lion is looking at weakness.
01:04:12So these guys, like Rex, are the lion on a Serengeti plane.
01:04:19In speaking with Rex, he always said to me, and he still says consistently,
01:04:23it's not about the women.
01:04:25It's not the women.
01:04:26Which leads me to believe, and we talk about,
01:04:29it's clearly he's detached from the person that he's mutilating.
01:04:34But he gets a lot of self-gratification post-mortem.
01:04:38He can say what he wants, but, you know, it's still sadistic.
01:04:44It's the violence that really turns him on.
01:04:47He does it downstairs in the kill room, which was his old bedroom,
01:04:53where he keeps a lot of his childhood memories.
01:04:56It's a comfort zone for him, just like the disposal sites are a comfort zone.
01:05:00There has to be some attachment there.
01:05:05He put these victims through hell, and it wasn't a swift kill.
01:05:09It didn't have to be a swift kill, because no one was home.
01:05:12No one could hear the screams and yells coming from his cellar.
01:05:17Is he a psychopath?
01:05:18Oh, yeah, definitely a psychopath.
01:05:21When he's doing these killings, he has to be...
01:05:24What's going through his mind has to be something, you know, related early on in his life.
01:05:30To a trauma.
01:05:30To a trauma in his life.
01:05:31I wouldn't be surprised if there's a sexual component of this.
01:05:35Something happened to him very, very early in his life.
01:05:41There's something there.
01:05:42So you feel that he knows the answers to a lot of the why.
01:05:46Yeah.
01:05:46He's just not ready to verbalize it.
01:05:49Yeah.
01:05:49They know.
01:05:50They know the answers.
01:05:51Something went on there, you know, with him sexually.
01:05:54Something had to do that.
01:05:57So the notion that Rex created a kill room in his childhood room,
01:06:03is there an overlap there, subconsciously or consciously?
01:06:07I think with the kill room, it started as a teenager.
01:06:11I could see him as a teenager beginning a lot of these fantasies in his teen years.
01:06:16May have been fueled by pornography.
01:06:22That kind of stuff starts very, very young.
01:06:24It doesn't always have to start in the mid-20s.
01:06:26And he says it started young.
01:06:28In your fantasy, you're writing a script.
01:06:31The script is being written through your fantasy.
01:06:34This stuff has to fester.
01:06:36Fester, at an early, early age, in those teens, when he was down in his room down there,
01:06:41going through puberty, his fantasies, I'm sure,
01:06:45were different kind of fantasies than a normal kind of teenager.
01:06:47And he'll admit to that.
01:06:48No, that's, that would fit.
01:06:50And it would be violent, a violent kind of tendency.
01:06:54Are they ever free of that urge?
01:06:56No, they never get free.
01:06:57There's no burden.
01:06:58The urges never go away.
01:06:59To keep reminding him, it's not a sexual thing.
01:07:03It's anger, power, control.
01:07:04Oh, I believe that.
01:07:05Domination.
01:07:05I could see that with Rex.
01:07:08With insecurity, some of the most gregarious serial killers you'd ever want to meet,
01:07:11like say, like a Ted Bundy, have strong feelings of inadequacies.
01:07:16How can this inadequate nobody become a somebody to get, to regain this power and control?
01:07:22I can go out and kill.
01:07:25And he didn't start killing, according to him, until he was 30.
01:07:29He's admitted to eight.
01:07:30Do we believe that?
01:07:32Am I naive to believe that?
01:07:33I don't believe he started killing at 30.
01:07:37There may be cases that he does not want to admit to, because in those states, like, like
01:07:42where he has a house, I believe, in South Carolina, and I've worked many cases down there, they
01:07:46got the death penalty, and they use it.
01:07:49In South Carolina, where Rex Uriman has property and his brother has property, investigators
01:07:54were curious about a missing teenager, Aaliyah Bell, and also a woman, Julianne Bean, who
01:08:01was 36, 18-year-old Aaliyah Bell went missing back in 2014.
01:08:05Bell disappeared around 20 miles from property owned by Uriman.
01:08:10In Julia M. Bean's case, her daughter saw a picture of Rex Uriman and said,
01:08:14that's the guy that I last saw with my mother.
01:08:17She recognized him right away.
01:08:19She said that was the last person she ever saw with her mom.
01:08:23I think he has a lot of hidden secrets here.
01:08:26He's a malignant, narcissistic, sadistic, psychopathic serial killer.
01:08:31Had he not been apprehended, I think he would kill more.
01:08:43Tomorrow will be the first time seeing Rex in a public courtroom since his private confession,
01:08:49and almost certainly the last before he tells the whole world what you already know.
01:08:55With the stage set for justice to finally be served, is there now room for forgiveness?
01:09:03Victoria, do you forgive your father?
01:09:07I do.
01:09:09You know, I do.
01:09:11I do forgive him.
01:09:12I can't move forward unless I do.
01:09:15I don't think it's in my place to forgive him.
01:09:21I'm not the one who's judging him.
01:09:25God is.
01:09:28So, he would need to get that from God.
01:09:41Clearly, like, the mind of a serial killer is beyond, it's like we don't know how it came to be.
01:09:47It's one in a million that, like, just wound up being one.
01:09:50So smart that he completely kept it from us, and that's what they do.
01:09:55They, Siri Kellis don't let their loved ones see their other side.
01:09:59But he really was just those two people.
01:10:02And they never crossed.
01:10:04Like, you know, the two worlds never crossed.
01:10:07When I sat with him alone, we spoke of that.
01:10:11He has time to go through all the discovery of his case in his cell.
01:10:17So, he sees photos of all of the eight women.
01:10:22And he spends time on these eight women, talking with them.
01:10:28And I said to him, what, what do you say?
01:10:32And he said a whole bunch of different things.
01:10:34That was his answer.
01:10:35All different things.
01:10:37And then he says, I look at the dump sites, and I look at what was done, and I try
01:10:44to connect the two, and he can't do it.
01:10:47His words.
01:10:48He goes, I can't do it.
01:10:49I try.
01:10:50It's two different worlds.
01:10:53He's trying to connect emotion to what he's done, and he can't.
01:10:57He has emotion with you guys.
01:11:00He doesn't have emotion on the other side of it.
01:11:08He doesn't have emotion on the other side of it.
01:11:08Tomorrow's a big day.
01:11:09Let's get some sleep.
01:11:11All right.
01:11:12All right.
01:11:137.15, okay?
01:11:18Bright and early.
01:11:33Accused Gil-Gil Beach serial killer Rex Heuerman
01:11:35returns to Suffolk court for another conference.
01:11:38Heuerman's attorney, Michael Brown,
01:11:39says he wants to break up the trial
01:11:41to avoid wrongly convicting him on all seven slayings.
01:11:44Each charge must fall or rise on its own.
01:11:48Prosecutors will file their motion
01:11:50for one and only one trial.
01:12:00So, Victoria.
01:12:02Yeah?
01:12:03Is this the first time you're seeing Dad since?
01:12:06He told you he was guilty?
01:12:08Yeah.
01:12:10The impact was already felt
01:12:11when Allison told me my dad wanted to confess to me.
01:12:15And then the meeting with him was another stage of impact.
01:12:18The next chapter is people's reactions.
01:12:23Is the world going to be considered...
01:12:26Is society, people, are going to be considered enough
01:12:28to know, yes, I'm the door of a serial killer,
01:12:32but that does not mean that I'm him.
01:12:34Even to the point you're going to see
01:12:36some of the victims' families today.
01:12:38Austin, same thing.
01:12:39Like, knowing what you now know,
01:12:41seeing the victims' families,
01:12:43any different feelings?
01:12:44I really don't know.
01:12:48I have no idea how you'll feel.
01:13:03Well, Victoria's here today,
01:13:04and we know that Peacock said that you made a statement
01:13:08that you thought that your father might be guilty
01:13:11of the serial killer...
01:13:12She's not going to respond to anything.
01:13:13...based on the publicly available evidence.
01:13:15She's not going to respond to anything today.
01:13:16Mm-hmm.
01:13:17Well, today's sort of D-Day.
01:13:19I mean, the judge will decide possibly the date,
01:13:21a decision on the date of the trial,
01:13:23and also whether there will be seven murders tried or...
01:13:27I don't think so.
01:13:28I have something to say.
01:13:29I promise.
01:13:30The judge will decide, we believe,
01:13:33whether or not all seven murders will be tried in one case
01:13:36or if there will be separate trials.
01:13:40I think given all of the success of the prosecution
01:13:43in terms of these pre-trial attempts the defense is making,
01:13:46they have fewer and fewer options,
01:13:48and this evidence is overwhelming.
01:13:50If I were the defense attorney,
01:13:51I'd be encouraging my client to take a plea personally.
01:14:03Am I reported?
01:14:10Okay, um, good morning, everybody.
01:14:12Thanks for coming.
01:14:13We are obviously here with Asner and Victoria,
01:14:15um, to listen to today's proceedings.
01:14:17The court, uh, primarily in the interest of judicial economy
01:14:20and given the fact that the evidence of the charges
01:14:24are inextricably interwoven, uh, is not going to sever.
01:14:28So all seven of the victims are going to be tried together
01:14:30in one trial.
01:14:31Another nail in the coffin of the defense.
01:14:33There's a lot of talk out there
01:14:35that Rexy Roman might consider pleading guilty
01:14:38to spare his family the trauma of a trial.
01:14:41I think that's a decision that will be made
01:14:44by Mr. Heumann and his defense team
01:14:46and Mr. Chaney's office.
01:14:49Okay, thank you.
01:15:01Asa, you okay?
01:15:03Yes, I'm okay.
01:15:04Okay.
01:15:10Hold on.
01:15:13Hold on.
01:15:14This is him again.
01:15:17An incarcerated individual
01:15:19at Suffolk County Correctional Facility.
01:15:22This call is subject to recording and monitoring.
01:15:26Hello?
01:15:27I want to call you back now.
01:15:31Because I just wanted to say,
01:15:34I know there's a lot to understand.
01:15:38And you're not going to be able to get a lot once.
01:15:40You do know that and I know that.
01:15:43Don't let it slip to.
01:15:45Because I know you tend to do that.
01:15:49And I know I can't answer some of the questions
01:15:52that you have right now
01:15:55because we're on the phone calls.
01:15:57Yeah, but you will in the future.
01:16:00Yes.
01:16:01Okay.
01:16:03I am patient.
01:16:04I am patient.
01:16:05I can wait.
01:16:09I always knew you didn't have as much patience as I do.
01:16:14But perhaps maybe you will be forced to be patient.
01:16:24Yes.
01:16:26My feelings are shifting.
01:16:29The one thing is ending
01:16:31and now there's a new chapter.
01:16:36In my hopes with Allison coming to visit you,
01:16:40I'm really honestly hoping that you will know
01:16:42that I am okay.
01:16:46I have my moments.
01:16:52I can tell you in your voice.
01:16:59Do you look at him different now?
01:17:02I'm looking at him no differently than I ever saw him.
01:17:11That hasn't changed in my view.
01:17:15At all.
01:17:18But there's a whole side of him you never knew?
01:17:20No, but that's a new side to get to know.
01:17:26How do you think you're going to get to know that side?
01:17:28Well, the only way to get to know that person is to go and visit him.
01:17:33Do you have any interest to get to know that person?
01:17:38Um, from a psychological standpoint, yes.
01:17:46Well, I also realized what I hung up for.
01:17:50I didn't say goodnight.
01:17:53You didn't?
01:17:55Okay, well, I would like to say goodnight.
01:18:13Do you have any interest to get to know that person?
01:18:16I don't know.
01:18:16I don't know.
01:18:23I don't know.
01:18:33It is the understanding of the district attorney's office that the defendant will plead guilty
01:18:37to seven counts in the indictment.
01:18:39The defendant further agrees that although he has not been charged with this fraud,
01:18:44he will admit as part of his plea that he intentionally caused the death of Karen Vergata in 1996.
01:18:50To summarize the foregoing sentence, the defendant agrees to serve three consecutive life sentences
01:18:56without the possibility of parole regarding counts one through three,
01:19:00followed by four consecutive sentences of 25 years imprisonment to life to run consecutive to one another.
01:19:07Do you understand that by pleading guilty to a charge,
01:19:10that is the same as you had gone to trial and found guilty of that charge?
01:19:13Yes, Your Honor.
01:19:14Are you pleading guilty voluntarily and if you're only free will?
01:19:17Yes.
01:19:19We have some breaking news for you.
01:19:21A decades-long mystery has finally come to an end today.
01:19:24Rex Huberman has pleaded guilty.
01:19:44How did you not see what he was?
01:19:47How did you not see what he had done?
01:19:50You were living with him.
01:19:51Sir, sir, sir, sir, the district attorney's office has thoroughly, thoroughly investigated these crimes, okay?
01:19:56It has been proven.
01:19:57You were living in the same house with him.
01:19:59We've answered this a thousand times, okay?
01:20:01Awesome. Awesome.
01:20:03Yes, that's it. There's no question.
01:20:19This defendant walked among us, play-acting as a normal suburban dad,
01:20:25when in reality, all along, he was obsessively targeting innocent women for death.
01:20:34And while we in law enforcement, as well as our Suffolk County citizens, mourn the loss of these victims,
01:20:41we are also grateful to them and to their families, because without them,
01:20:45this defendant would have never been brought to justice and would still be walking amongst us.
01:20:53To Maureen, the promise I made to you so long ago was simple.
01:20:59Sorry.
01:21:01I would never stop searching for justice for you.
01:21:04Through every year, every setback, every unanswered question,
01:21:11I carried you with me, and I kept that promise.
01:21:14And today, it has been done.
01:21:17Justice has finally found its way to you.
01:21:19Your voice was never silenced, your story never forgotten,
01:21:22and your life will always mean more than the tragedy that took you.
01:21:26This moment is not the end, but a reminder that love endures, truth prevails, and hope never fades,
01:21:34because even in the darkest moments, justice will find its way.
01:21:53This whole basement looks very different.
01:22:04It's been completely gutted and redone.
01:22:08New floor, new walls, new moldings, new doors.
01:22:16What do you want people to know about why you moved back into the basement,
01:22:22into the kill room, into the room where these heinous things happen?
01:22:27The brutal truth is that Rex Heumann said he dismembered the bodies in this room.
01:22:35That is the brutal truth.
01:22:38Okay, now there's me, I'm in this room.
01:22:43And I'm here because I do feel spiritual.
01:22:47I am trying to say spiritually in my own way that I am really sorry for what these victims went
01:22:59through.
01:23:07Every night that I go to bed and go to sleep, I am haunted by dreams.
01:23:17Every night.
01:23:21It will never go away.
01:23:24It will follow me for the rest of my life.
01:23:29There will never be any justice for anyone, and there will never be any way to forget about this.
01:23:44I have seen Rex about 12 times since he confessed to me that he actually had dismembered these bodies down
01:23:54here.
01:23:56I want to get to know this other side of Rex.
01:24:00I want to know why Rex killed these women.
01:24:05I want to know what his triggers were.
01:24:13I'm processing the information in a very different way.
01:24:19Because now I see the evil in him.
01:24:46Why did you pick her?
01:24:48Did she say, please, please, like I have kids?
01:24:51She was just very kind-hearted.
01:24:53She didn't deserve this.
01:24:54Nobody deserves this.
01:24:55They were all beautiful women.
01:24:58They were daughters, sisters, cousins, nieces, mothers.
01:25:04Amber was just a beautiful, beautiful, loving human being.
01:25:09And I miss her terribly.
01:25:11Jess was somebody that I looked up to.
01:25:14She was a force, one of the strongest women that I know, with a heart of gold.
01:25:18She was, and still is, loved immeasurably.
01:25:33She was, and still is, loved immeasurably.
01:25:36She was, and still is, loved immeasurably.
01:25:38She was, loved immeasurably.
01:25:38She was, loved immeasurably.
01:25:39She was, loved immeasurably.
01:25:39She was, loved immeasurably.
01:25:41She was, loved immeasurably.
01:25:42She was, loved immeasurably.
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