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Europe Today: Charles Michel a Euronews mentre i leader UE discutono la crisi a Cipro

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00:14Good morning, it's Friday the 24th of April.
00:18I'm Mariette Gwynne and you're watching Europe Today.
00:21Your daily dose of news and analysis broadcast live here from Brussels.
00:26Coming up on today's show.
00:28EU leaders are gathering in Cyprus to talk Ukraine, Iran, energy and mutual defence.
00:35They arrive fresh off a major win, having unblocked a crucial loan for Ukraine and sanctions on Russia.
00:43Leaders from Lebanon, Egypt, Syria, Jordan and the Gulf are also flying in for talks on the situation in the
00:49Middle East.
00:50And as world leaders gather at the Delphi Economic Forum in Greece,
00:54we speak to former European Council President Shave Michel about Europe's role on the global stage
01:01and his deeply critical stance towards the European Commission President Ursula von der Leyen.
01:06And US President Donald Trump has said that Israel and Lebanon have agreed a three-week extension to the ceasefire
01:14in Israel's war on Hezbollah.
01:16It came after direct talks between the Israeli and Lebanese ambassadors to the US, the second such talks in recent
01:23days.
01:25They like each other, I found that out today and I've sort of heard about that.
01:29They actually like each other, Lebanon and Israel.
01:32They've agreed to an additional three weeks of, I guess, no firing, ceasefire.
01:39No more firing.
01:40Let's see.
01:40We hope that happens.
01:42It's not going to happen between them, but they do have Hezbollah to think about.
01:47But first, for our top story today, we're taking you to Cyprus,
01:52where EU leaders are holding an informal summit against a fraught geopolitical backdrop.
01:57Last night, over dinner, leaders discussed plans to revive the EU's little-known defence clause
02:03amid deepening cracks in the relationship between the US and its European allies.
02:09Today, they'll tackle the EU's long-term budget and they'll also lunch with leaders from the Middle East.
02:14For more, we can cross over to Cyprus now and to our correspondent, Jorge Liborero, who's there for us.
02:21Great to see you, Jorge, this morning.
02:24Listen, this should have been Viktor Orbán's last summit, but he's decided to skip,
02:29and that really seems to be defining this gathering.
02:35Calimera Marit, indeed, the longest-serving member of the European Council,
02:40is not making his way to this summit.
02:43It would have been his farewell summit, so to speak, after 16 years of uninterrupted power.
02:48But as we remember, Viktor Orbán was defeated in the polls earlier this month,
02:53and opposition leader Peter Magyar took over with the promise of restoring ties between Budapest and Brussels.
03:01Leaders yesterday, as they made their way to the dinner,
03:04were noticeably relieved by the change in power,
03:07because Viktor Orbán has been a figure of disruption and obstruction for 16 years,
03:13and now everybody wants to bring back a sense of normalcy into the collective decision-making.
03:19And, Jorge, the president of Ukraine, Volodymyr Zelenskyy, was also there,
03:24joining the leaders over dinner yesterday.
03:27And he had some very interesting comments on Ukraine's bid to join the European Union.
03:37Yes, indeed.
03:38At first, we didn't know if Zelenskyy was going to make it in person to the summit here in Cyprus.
03:44But after the vetoes on the 90 billion loan and the package of sanctions against Russia were lifted earlier this
03:50week,
03:50he decided to show up in person, and his message was unmistakable.
03:55He was pushing to really speed up the accession process of Ukraine,
04:00which has been blocked by Hungary for almost two years now.
04:04The frustration of Zelenskyy was very palpable as well.
04:07He said that he needs a clear date for accession,
04:11and he wants to speed up the process as soon as possible.
04:14However, other leaders, like the prime ministers of Belgium and Luxembourg, were more cautious.
04:20They said that they don't want any shortcuts,
04:22they don't want any fast tracks for Ukraine's accession.
04:25So my short analysis here in Cyprus is that after the end of the urban era,
04:31EU leaders will have to finally face head-on the complex issue of Ukraine's accession with no easy answers.
04:38And yesterday, I got to talk to one of these leaders, the Estonian prime minister, Kristen Michal,
04:44and we talked about accession, but also other topics that are hot on the agenda right now.
04:48Take a listen.
04:50We'll see, because always there's a chance,
04:53at least for a fresh start.
04:55So it will mean that you can start again.
04:58And to be honest, I cannot see any other way that Ukraine's future is in the Europe.
05:06That is definitely so.
05:08That will mean that the question is only when, not if and how.
05:15Now, I know you've been working on an initiative to introduce an European-wide ban for Russian soldiers who have
05:22taken part in the full-scale invasion of Ukraine.
05:24Why are you pushing for this measure now?
05:27And why is it so important to you?
05:29It's not even important to me, but it's important to everybody living in Europe because, to put it very simple
05:37terms, that before the war and at the start of the war,
05:42Russia had less men under the arms than right now.
05:45So we have more men under the arms right now than at the start of the war.
05:50And we would imagine for a moment that the war would stop.
05:54There will be ceasefire, peace and some, but hopefully just a lasting peace.
05:59Fine.
05:59But what will those people do?
06:02Most of them are criminals, but they have to be treated as heroes inside Russia.
06:07So, once again, I would ask everybody that, do you want these guys near to your home?
06:11No, you don't.
06:12So that's why you have to ban them for life from Schengen.
06:16Ideally, you think it could happen this year or do you think it needs more time?
06:21Ideally, it could happen.
06:23It should happen before the summer, but this is ideally.
06:26I have this kind of feeling that we will be talking about it before the summer already,
06:32but I don't know if enough decisions will be made before the summer, but I hope so.
06:37Another issue here for this informal summit is mutual assistance.
06:41We know that the European treaties have an article of mutual assistance, 42.7.
06:46It hasn't been explored until now, but we also know that many member states like yours
06:51are also part of NATO, which has an article 5 of collective defense.
06:54Do you see a possible contradiction between these two articles or can they coexist?
06:59They are coexisting because, for example, NATO article 5 has been invoked only once from the United States
07:08and European article 42.7 has been also invoked once by France.
07:14So the question is about the need and they can exist together, I would say,
07:21because usually it's pretty much overlapping what we're doing because you need certain assistance.
07:28You need your allies to act with you.
07:30So I would say this is working well, but also we should talk about European capabilities,
07:36because, as we can see, President Trump's message is also that Europe should bear more burden in its own defense.
07:43Trump has also threatened to withdraw the United States from NATO.
07:47He's been saying this several times.
07:49We don't know what's going to happen, but do you think that because of these threats
07:53that he's making so publicly, the value of article 5 has been decreased,
07:58that it's not so powerful anymore?
08:01I would say no to that because, for example, when we had Russian MiGs in our space a little bit
08:09before
08:10that certain Russian drones were in Poland's airspace, which were shot down first time in NATO's history at that moment.
08:17At that moment, Trump's message was quite clear that America is standing to protect Baltics, Poland and so on.
08:24So I would say that the messages have been quite clear that NATO is working.
08:28Also in Hague, we had NATO summit there, and Trump said that if Europe is sharing the burden, he will
08:36commit to NATO.
08:38Yes, I can understand that there's a lot of political messages, but the military side is working absolutely well.
08:48That was the Estonian Prime Minister, Kristian Michal, speaking to our correspondent, Jorge Liborero.
08:54And we'll, of course, keep an eye out for Jorge's reporting throughout the day from those talks in Cyprus.
09:00Now, when he was president of the European Council,
09:03Charles Michel had a notoriously strained relationship with commission president Ursula von der Leyen.
09:10Those tensions have resurfaced in recent weeks.
09:13Our Europe editor, Maria Tadeo, caught up with Michel earlier today at the Delphi Economic Forum.
09:20She began by asking him about von der Leyen's leadership style, often described as highly centralised,
09:27and whether sufficient checks and balances exist to keep that approach in check.
09:34All of us, we know what we have to do, what I'm observing, it seems that it's difficult to make
09:39decisions that are urgent and that are needed.
09:43I trust the European Council.
09:45I think that by nature, the European Council is the right body to decide what are the main orientations,
09:52and also to make the most difficult decisions, because, you know, the European Council is the guardian of the European
09:59unity.
10:00And this European unity is something that's not easy to achieve.
10:03It requires a lot of work, a lot of preparation.
10:06It requires a lot of collective intelligence.
10:08It requires to listen to each other.
10:11And I'm confident that sooner or later the European Council will make additional decisions to clarify some of the orientations
10:20we have to decide on in the near future.
10:23Do you, are we to understand, therefore, that the Council's stance, it should be stronger, it should have a louder
10:29voice?
10:30It's not as strong as it should be the message now.
10:32You know, in my opinion, there's not a question of voice, it's a question of decisions, the fact that they
10:38have to be made.
10:39And what is a bit frustrating for all those like me, who are absolutely convinced that this project is more
10:45needed than ever,
10:45the European project, the European dream, the European principles, the European values, the European coexistence,
10:51and what is frustrating is the fact that all of us, we know what we have to do.
10:55We know exactly what we have to do.
10:56Everything is on the table.
10:58They are observing that there are always good reasons to procrastinate.
11:01There are always good reasons to waste time.
11:05And that's regrettable.
11:06And again, I don't want to blame anyone in particular.
11:12Let's be clear.
11:13That's not my point.
11:14When I want to blame someone, I'm very clear.
11:16You know me.
11:17Here, that's not my point.
11:18My point is, let's look at the future.
11:20And we have tools, we have capacities, we have capabilities, we have great companies, we have great searchers.
11:29We have a lot of strength within the EU.
11:31And there is a crisis.
11:32There is chaos across the world.
11:34And by experience, we know when it's difficult in the world, in general, the EU is able to learn lessons
11:42fast.
11:43Let's act faster and let's learn our lessons.
11:46Some would argue the weakness at times of the Council goes back to the idea of unanimity.
11:52And that has been dragging the action and certainly the peace and the speed around it.
11:56Viktor Orban obviously has been crushed in a defeat.
11:59Viktor Orban now is gone from the Council.
12:02Is that going to make things better?
12:04Or actually, would you argue the dynamics are more profound?
12:06Even with the Hungarian Prime Minister gone, this issue will remain.
12:10I hope that it will help the European plans to be more united in the future.
12:16Are you relieved that Viktor Orban lost?
12:18I wouldn't say that.
12:19Because I will tell you why.
12:20Because I think that based on the experience I have on some topics, some in the European Council were hiding
12:28behind Viktor Orban.
12:31Point one.
12:31And point two, in some of the European countries, you can have tomorrow some national leaders who are not so
12:38far from Viktor Orban's ideology.
12:41On some topics, including on Ukraine, for instance.
12:44Point two.
12:45Does it mean that unanimity is a problem?
12:48For sure, unanimity is a challenge.
12:50There is no doubt.
12:50But I think you should think carefully before making a decision not to use unanimity anymore.
12:57Because if you stop to try to involve every country in the same decision, the reason is that you will
13:05weaken the weight of the EU at the international level.
13:10And that's why I think that the priority should be different.
13:14In my opinion, you should fight against the abuse of this veto right.
13:18Because if you follow the philosophy and the principle of the Lisbon Treaty, the idea was really that the veto
13:25right was supposed to be used when your vital interests are at risk.
13:30And the problem is that today, too many countries are tempted too many times to use this veto right as
13:37a kind of tool to blackmail it, to get something in the other side.
13:40That's the problem, the one, I think.
13:42It seems to me, however, listening to the leaders just finally on this point, that they would agree that larger
13:45needs to happen as soon as possible and complete the union.
13:49But they would also say we need to reform and there is no fast track for Ukraine.
13:53Are those three statements compatible?
13:55Yeah, but what you are mentioning is this agreed language, no fast track, etc.
14:01When we want to do something, but in parallel, we add a sentence so that it is in fact more
14:10difficult to get the result.
14:14Let's be clear.
14:16There is no doubt that in those countries, they have to do their homework and they know what they have
14:21to do.
14:22There is to put in place a reform, there is to guarantee the independence of justice, to fight against corruption,
14:27etc., point one.
14:28On the other hand, let's be honest, in some of the European countries, it was very comfortable to use the
14:35argument of those countries not acting as fast as needed because there is, in some European countries, a difficult question
14:47debate with this enlargement policy.
14:49And I think in those circumstances, we could all win if we tell the truth to our people everywhere in
14:58Europe.
14:59The future will be more stable, more secure with them within the EU.
15:03And of course, there are some efforts, but also our efforts that are needed in terms of domestic reforms and
15:10in terms of what kind of policy we put in place.
15:17That was the former president of the European Council, Charles Michel, speaking to our Europe editor, Maria Tadeo.
15:24Now, the FIFA Football World Cup is just around the corner, happening this summer, of course, in the US, Canada
15:31and Mexico.
15:32And it's becoming deeply intertwined with global politics.
15:37The Trump administration is reportedly working behind the scenes to replace Iran, which did qualify for the tournament, with Italy,
15:46which painfully lost in the playoffs to Bosnia and Herzegovina, missing out on a spot in the World Cup for
15:53the third consecutive time.
15:55For more, our Jakob Janis has this explainer.
16:00Could the 2026 World Cup see a team that failed to qualify take to the pitch?
16:06A plan is brewing in Washington to give Italy a wildcard entry by replacing Iran.
16:12Paolo Zampolli, a special envoy to President Trump, confirmed he has pitched the swap to both the White House and
16:18FIFA President Gianni Infantino.
16:21But wait a second. Is this game-changer even in the rulebook?
16:26The Financial Times reports this is an attempt to repair ties between Trump and Italy's Giorgio Meloni after the Republic's
16:33part over the Iran War and the Pope.
16:36And Zampolli argues Italy four world titles offer the pedigree to join the 2026 tournament hosted across the US, Mexico
16:44and Canada.
16:45All right, but how is it legal? Article 6 of the World Cup regulations gives FIFA sole discretion to replace
16:53any team that withdraws or is excluded.
16:57And while Iran insists they plan to participate, FIFA has already set a precedent.
17:03Just last summer, they used the same powers to hand a spot at the Club World Cup to Inter Miami,
17:10enabling Lionel Messi to play.
17:13But football is not the only arena where the guest list is being rewritten.
17:17This February, Russia and Belarus were barred from flying their flags at the Milano-Kortina 2026 Winter Olympics in response
17:24to the full-scale invasion of Ukraine.
17:27Yet, when the Paralympics, which are governed by a different body than the Olympics, allowed these symbols back after a
17:33Swiss court ruling, the European Commission boycotted the opening ceremony.
17:37Sport commissioner Glenn Mikalev called the return of the national banners unacceptable, while Russia's war of aggression against Ukraine continues.
17:46So if Italy does make it to Los Angeles this June, it could be the most historic wildcard in the
17:52history of the sport.
17:54They just have to hope their diplomatic pedigree is as strong as their footballing one.
17:58Especially after the brutal defeat to Bosnia and Herzegovina in the qualifying play-off final.
18:09And that brings this edition of Europe Today to an end.
18:13Thank you so much for your company today and throughout this week.
18:17We will be bringing the latest from that meeting of EU leaders taking place right now in Cyprus.
18:23Our correspondent Jorge Liborero is there on the ground.
18:27Keep an eye out for his reporting throughout the day on Euronews and Euronews.com.
18:32You can also get in touch with us.
18:34Email us at europetoday at euronews.com with your tips, questions and feedback.
18:39We love to hear from you.
18:41We'll be back on Monday with more news and more analysis from Brussels and across our European bureaus.
18:48In the meantime, do have a great weekend.
19:02We'll be back on Monday with more news and more news and other news and more news and more news
19:16and more news and more news and more news.
19:20Grazie a tutti.
19:56Grazie a tutti.
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