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00:00The Lincoln Law Pod is a part of so many shows and discusses the events from each episode of The
00:05Lincoln Lawyer, which all four seasons are available now on Netflix.
00:09Before we get to our conversation on The Lincoln Lawyer, we wanted to pass along our condolences to Eric Overmeyer's
00:15family and friends.
00:16Before jumping on the podcast today, we found out that he had passed away.
00:20So as the time we're recording this, we just want to send our condolences from so many shows, so many
00:25shows.com, so many mashups.
00:27On behalf of all of us, me, Mike, Tracy, and Jay.
00:31R.I.P., and sorry to hear that he's passed away, 74 years old.
00:35He was a powerhouse for, he was one of the core three for the showrunners for Bosh Bosh Legacy at
00:40the start.
00:41He's worked on dozens of other shows, projects, The Wires, and Homicide Life on the Streets, so from all of
00:48us, we just want to pass along our condolences.
00:51All rise, the Lincoln Law Pod is in session.
00:54In this episode of The Lincoln Law Pod, we'll be discussing The Lincoln Lawyer, Season 4, Episode 8, titled Confirmation
01:00Bias.
01:01It was written by Ryan Huang Williams and directed by Jennifer Lynch.
01:06In the wake of a violent attack, the Sheriff's Department, along with Maggie, Lorna, Judge Stone, and Dana Berg, all
01:13agree to allow Mickey to be housed in a different way.
01:16Izzy tracks down the green energy expert to get information from him.
01:20Before having to subpoena Gazarian, Sisko seems to be enjoying his assignment, and Lorna has a rough start to the
01:27prelim against Carter, but an idea pops in her head to turn the tide.
01:55All righty.
01:57Well, J. Pete, welcome back to The Lincoln Law Pod.
02:01We haven't seen you all season long, so I'm glad you're able to jump on with us.
02:04I'm glad to be here.
02:06I've been hiding out, just doing some mashups, but, you know, same channel, so many shows, so many shows.com,
02:10so many mashups.
02:11Me and Mike actually handle that.
02:13Mike's been the big dog here with the actual breakdown podcast and, you know, Sparks, Meters, and Games, so I'm
02:18excited to hand over the steering wheel.
02:20You know, let Mike, you know, kind of lead the way and steer me in for once, because I've been
02:23steering you for so long.
02:24I'm like, oh, no, I hope I don't try to, like, hijack this whole thing, so I'm just going to
02:27stay quiet.
02:27I'm here for color commentary.
02:29I'm not here for the review.
02:30So I know my role, people.
02:32So you will get some good shit coming out of me since you haven't heard a lot all season.
02:35But we did do, however, full disclosure, and it is a spoiler alert, if you didn't finish The Lincoln Lawyer
02:40yet, we did a mashup of The Lincoln Lawyer on, I don't know if it's on YouTube or just the
02:44site.
02:45YouTube.
02:45But you can find that we break down the whole season in, like, a small, you know, just little bits
02:50and pieces of, like, things that we found interesting or whatever in the mashup category.
02:54So just feel free to check that out, so many shows, so many shows.com, so many mashups.
02:58But, Mike, go ahead.
02:59Sounds good.
02:59Well, before we get into our discussion on this episode, Pete, since Pete and I have done a bunch of
03:05mashup podcasts, we have developed a good system with leaving the fans wanting a little bit more with our approach
03:11to the shows.
03:11And because of that, our discussion went by pretty quickly, especially with no game plan for this episode.
03:16So instead, to cover that time, I had the chance to interview showrunner Daylon Rodriguez about things from the first
03:23eight episodes of Season 4 of The Lincoln Lawyer.
03:25So I've included that at the tail end of this episode.
03:28So please stay tuned to hear what insights she gives our listeners about The Lincoln Lawyer season up to this
03:34point.
03:34All righty.
03:35I asked everybody else this question since Episode 6.
03:38We discussed it on that So Many Mashups conversation where we lost Legal Segal in the sixth episode.
03:43First off, what was your favorite Legal Segal moment from any season or any episode?
03:48Anything that comes to your mind that was a favorite moment of yours?
03:52Well, first of all, rest in peace, because that death in a TV show broke me.
03:56That was devastating.
03:58I didn't expect that.
03:59I expected a lot of other things, but not that at the moment.
04:01I feel like his latest work was the best when he told Lorna, you know, you can't always think you're
04:05going to hit a home run.
04:06You know what I mean?
04:06As far as I'm concerned, whatever you do with it.
04:08He broke it down like in baseball analytics.
04:11But at the end of the day, he's like, you know, you're a winner in my book.
04:14Like, that's a win.
04:14Like, the way he explained it to her, that will lead to my other thing, which is the thing I
04:20noticed, actually, out of this whole thing and the whole Lincoln Lawyer and has nothing to do with, like, any
04:25specific category.
04:26But Lorna, her education is top notch because she's been on the Mickey for how long?
04:32And now she's working directly with Maggie.
04:34Yep.
04:35And she sees, and not only has she worked with these people, but she's also worked against the people they
04:40worked against.
04:41Yeah.
04:42So she has, like, two educations on both ends.
04:44And I feel like that's, if we were going to, you know, like we do with the show, We Make
04:48It Real, that would be like, oh, my God, she's going to be, like, the sickest lawyer ever.
04:53Yes.
04:53In five to ten years, you're going to be writing books about her.
04:56Yes, definitely.
04:58So that's where they should go with it, if you want my opinion, you know, but we'll get there.
05:02Yeah, the character is different in the books.
05:03I think in the books, she's still just the office manager for Mickey.
05:08So, yeah.
05:08But Lorna is kind of filling in a role of another young lawyer that Mickey brings under his wing.
05:14So Lorna in the show is taking over that role.
05:17Well, let me just stop you right there because I'm Pete, right?
05:20And I don't care about the book.
05:21Yes.
05:22Let's just get that out there.
05:23So I don't care how it compares to the book.
05:25I just know that Lorna's the shit, and there should be a whole book written about her or a whole
05:30spinoff show about her and her legal things at the end.
05:33Her and Sisko.
05:35Yes.
05:36She can do, like, a housewife's thing where she handles divorce law, and it's a Netflix spinoff, limited series, six
05:41episodes.
05:41Sisko gets them for screen time.
05:43She calls in Mickey for a cameo.
05:45Come on.
05:45Let's go, Netflix.
05:46Yeah, exactly.
05:47Spinoff, spinoff, spinoff.
05:48All righty.
05:48And then the second question I was asking people was, so Legal Segal was able to eat from a place
05:53of his own choosing as a final meal.
05:55So if you could pick a favorite place or a favorite meal, what would you pick as your final meal?
05:59That is so tough.
06:01I mean, I want to say, like, oh, I would get, like, you know, a chicken-colored palm from my
06:07favorite, you know, Italian place or, you know, boneless sparrows from my favorite Chinese place because, like, those are the
06:13favorite things.
06:14However, I'm not exposed to, like, rich lobster and steaks that taste that melt in your mouth because I don't
06:19go to those places.
06:20So I think if I had to pick any place and it was, like, you know, like, your last meal
06:24and you're going to die, I think I would definitely look for, like, the most expensive, stupidest shit I could
06:28try ever before I'm going to, you know, either die or whatever it is for a last meal.
06:32Yes.
06:33So, like, I would look for the most expensive steakhouse in the world or, like, you know, would have to
06:37fly the steak in from, like, a different country on a private jet, you know, just something that I would
06:43never normally be, you know, privy to.
06:46Yeah.
06:46But if it was something that, you know, you normally eat, it would just be, like, yeah, some Chinese food
06:50or something.
06:51Yeah, exactly.
06:51But I eat every day, yeah.
06:52And that'll lead me into the – so we're just going to jump into our favorite moments or highlights of
06:57the episode here.
06:58So bringing up food, you mentioned Chinese food.
07:01I like the scene where Mickey and Maggie are sharing Chinese food and she has that jerk chicken or whatever
07:06and she's only giving them a little sample, little, little bitty piece.
07:09And I remember on our mashup podcast you were saying something about, you know, where does – how does Mickey
07:14know all these good places?
07:15And Maggie even asks.
07:17But not even how he knows these good places.
07:20How he knows what to get from these places because you can find the good food place.
07:23Okay, this is a great Italian place.
07:24But how do you know that the eggplant palm is the best and anybody else ought to have the best
07:28breadstick?
07:28Like, how do you know that somebody tell him and he picked up these clues along the way?
07:32Or has he actually tried all those foods?
07:34I'm pretty sure he's tried all those foods because he even says, you know, when you work out of your
07:38car, you get around and you try a lot of places.
07:41So I'm guessing it's probably trial and error.
07:44You know, it's like maybe he'll hear something, you know, from somebody, go try it out.
07:48And based on their recommendation, then he'll try something new the next time.
07:51You never know.
07:52But that's my point.
07:53He wasn't like, oh, well, this jerk chicken is amazing.
07:56How do you find these places?
07:57And he should have been like, yeah, if you have the boneless rips from this place, it sucks.
08:00Yes.
08:00You know, it's never bad talk, but I'm glad you brought that up because, yes, we did talk about that
08:06in our mashup.
08:07And I do want to bring to the point of actually what I was thinking during that moment was they
08:11made that that was when he made that joke.
08:13Right.
08:13Because I miss I miss having like these moments with you or these meals with you.
08:17And he says, oh, do you miss my charm or whatever or my personality?
08:21And they held hands.
08:22Yeah.
08:22And there's a moment where you're like, oh, no, they're going to kiss or, oh, yes, depending on who you
08:26are.
08:26However, she's still actively involved in a relationship.
08:29So, you know, it gets real sticky.
08:31And I'm really glad that they didn't go there.
08:33Right.
08:34Right.
08:34At this moment, because I feel like that would have been like, oh, my God, Lincoln Lawyer's got drama written
08:38all over.
08:39Oh, my God.
08:39Real Housewives of Lincoln Lawyer, whatever, blah, blah, blah.
08:41However, I'm glad they didn't because it shows, you know, that Mickey's a little bit of still has a little,
08:46you know, and that she has some restraint.
08:48And like, don't get me wrong.
08:48If that phone doesn't ring, what happens?
08:51We don't know.
08:52But I want to think and I want to appreciate the writers not giving us that sticky drama where Mickey
08:57looks like unethical and does like a piece of shit move, which is even though it's your ex-wife and
09:01you both love each other.
09:03And, yeah, we all want you to do it.
09:04Yeah.
09:04She's got to go tell the other dude to call first.
09:07Yes, exactly.
09:08So that's where I'm at.
09:09Yeah, that was one of my questions is do you think if the phone had not rung, you know, would
09:15they have tried maybe kissing, but then they would have regretted it and then there would have been the awkwardness
09:19afterwards.
09:19So, all righty.
09:21What do you have for a favorite moment off the top of your bat there?
09:24So there was a couple of moments that all of a similar.
09:28I liked when Cisco was in the talking when Cisco and Lona were having the fight and they were both
09:33trying to text each other.
09:34Yes.
09:35But like she's at work and he's in a robe having like, I guess, his tea, like looking all sophisticated,
09:41which is totally not him.
09:42Yes.
09:43And it's like he's sitting there.
09:44He's like, you wouldn't believe me.
09:45I'm going to come back better.
09:45And he's like resting.
09:46He's like having like a rest, but at the same time he's stalking.
09:49You know, this guy, which leads me to my other favorite part of the episode, which is the end when
09:56you know, because in my mind, I'm like, oh, they're going to kill this guy right now.
09:59And then has this has the scene starts and you can see my hands as they start to visualize the
10:03they start to do a fade away.
10:04So how do you see more of the building?
10:06You're like, this guy's coming down.
10:07Yep.
10:08And then here, boom.
10:09And you're like, but then you also realize the ramifications.
10:13Yeah.
10:13This guy's no longer there to testify.
10:15So Mickey's.
10:16Yeah, hopefully not.
10:18Geez.
10:18That's we don't obviously they needed him to testify.
10:22So now it's just going to be another hurdle.
10:24They got to try to jump over to figure out how to defend Mickey.
10:27So, yes, it's going to be interesting.
10:29It's a very downer ending of an episode there.
10:32But I did like you.
10:33I did see it.
10:34I'm like, OK, they're they're showing way too much of the building to not have something happen.
10:38Yeah.
10:38Something crazy is about to go down.
10:40Exactly.
10:41Oh, already.
10:43When my daughter and I were watching the episode, I don't know if you caught on to or my daughter
10:47had said something about the start of the episode.
10:50Mickey being in that solitary confinement or the shoe single housing.
10:54With the dripping of the water.
10:56Dripping of the water.
10:56My daughter said it was like psychological torture or something like that on him.
11:00That's so funny because I actually have it written down here and I noticed it right away.
11:04The visual effects of it's not that you write a scene.
11:07OK, Mickey's in solitary confinement water dripping on the thing.
11:10But the way they filmed it.
11:12Yes.
11:12They nailed it.
11:13So hats off to whoever is in charge of, you know, the little details of the scene and making it
11:19look the way they wanted to make it look.
11:21Because it really it looked realistic.
11:23It got to the point of this guy is is going to lose his mind.
11:27And he does briefly, too.
11:29Yes, briefly, very quickly, because we see everybody forgets that Mickey has a temper to begin with.
11:34Yep.
11:34So just because we haven't seen it this season, because he's trying to be ethical, because he's trying to keep
11:39his composure.
11:40Just look at in this episode alone when he's testifying what he said to the guy.
11:44Oh, you'll be dead by us.
11:46You know, like, yes, you know, he's not exactly a nice guy all the time either.
11:50So it's like, well, everybody has their breaking points.
11:52And Mickey being in the in the shoe all weekend long really tipped him to only for a weekend.
11:58They put those they put some people in there for 60, 90 days for doing some stupid shit.
12:01That's, you know, crazy, because like they were saying when they approached the judge, you know, that they lost a
12:06whole weekend of prep because he's, you know, because a riot broke out.
12:10I couldn't even see him.
12:10I couldn't even see him.
12:11So so I do like how they reluctantly all agreed or I don't know if maybe Dana was still fighting
12:16the tooth and nail, but they decided to release him on house arrest for the duration of through the trial.
12:22So I love that factor that at least then he'll be able to sleep in his own bed.
12:27But Dana did that as a tactic, because the more you the more freedom you give this guy, the more
12:31it looks like he's not guilty, maybe.
12:33Yeah, because if you had if you had stone cold evidence, this guy had a gun on his person, then
12:37you would definitely not let him out thinking he might hurt somebody.
12:40Yeah, you know, I'm saying like, so the visual of it, I could see where, you know, Dana has to
12:45keep nor does she want Mickey sitting there, you know, digging up stuff, knowing how good he is and how
12:50many tricks he has up his sleeve.
12:51Yeah, definitely.
12:52And I do like how Mickey's new driver seems to be a ray of sunshine.
12:57Yeah, he's assigned a deputy to drive him to and from the court and home.
13:01And that's all he can do is be, you know, he can't go out on his own or anything like
13:05that.
13:05So he's under house arrest for until through the trial.
13:08But like I said, this driver driver isn't too cheerful.
13:12It's like get in the car.
13:13It's like, yes, sir.
13:16Oh, man.
13:17Speaking of that temperament you're talking about earlier, the other scene that caught my attention was when Jessica and I'm
13:24glad I called that last season.
13:25I knew that scene was going to come into play the way Jessica reacted when Mickey had spotted off.
13:31You know, if you don't pay us, you're dead.
13:32I knew that was going to come into play.
13:33I'm glad I got to see that play out.
13:36But Mickey at first was going to get up to ask her to do the cross-examination.
13:40And Maggie kind of like grabs his, you know, not forcefully, but kind of touches his arm, says, I'll take
13:44this and try to calm down.
13:46It's not playing well with the jury.
13:48So you got to not look so mad.
13:50Don't look so mad.
13:52Yeah.
13:52Yes.
13:53So what else do you got on your notes?
13:55Okay.
13:56So I see.
13:57Here's my thing.
13:58In the beginning of the season.
14:00So his, what was her name?
14:02Andrea from last season?
14:03Andrea Freeman.
14:04Yes.
14:05Yes.
14:05Okay.
14:05So now she's like somebody in this thing, right?
14:08Like in this, because in the beginning he said, I don't want to call her.
14:11Yep.
14:11Now here's the thing.
14:12When you're in the situation that he's in, and I think I said this on the mashup too.
14:16Yeah.
14:16I don't even like her as a viewer.
14:19Unfortunately, it's called hard truth.
14:21I didn't want to see more of her.
14:22But in the situation you're in, I don't care how ethical you want to be.
14:26I've, and I said this in my mashup and you guys can go there.
14:28You can hear it here.
14:29Mickey's stupid.
14:29He should take it off on the technicality in episode one or two, whatever it was.
14:33And he should have called Andrea as soon as he could.
14:36And if he didn't, Maggie or Lorna or Cisco or anybody else should have called her in
14:41and at least have her come in and say, Hey, listen, you know, this is what we can
14:45do for you from my office, but I can't get you out of this, but this is what we can
14:48do to help you because I know that kind of guy you are, but I can't get and step
14:51in because it's a something, but the fact that he kept her, the fact that he kept her
14:55out of it is like, okay, you know, now we, now we revert to the books.
15:00Is she in the books any further?
15:01No.
15:02So that might be it for that guy.
15:04Yeah.
15:04She was only in the book that one, that one season that was used for season two of that
15:09book.
15:09Which I also found weird because she's Maggie's friend.
15:12So you would think at least, you know, Hey, show a scene of her walking past or talking
15:17to Maggie house and make, Oh, you know, hold, you know, and then that's it.
15:20They need, they cut her out a whole mix and everything.
15:22I know.
15:23I, I, I thought for sure.
15:25Cause when we heard that she wasn't going to be a series regular or a regular in this
15:28season, I thought they'd at least have her in by now, especially with the situation that
15:32he's in.
15:33Yes.
15:33I'm still holding out hope that nine or 10 episodes, nine or 10, you might get to see
15:38her yet.
15:38Maybe.
15:39So you think that, so you think that there's a possibility that she could come in on like
15:43the, the, the, the 12th hour, the 11th hour and maybe half my office, this is what we're
15:49doing and shit.
15:50Maybe the 12th hour.
15:51We know Mickey's not going to be found guilty, but I'm just hoping we see it.
15:54Like you said, a phone conversation, something where she calls him up saying, Hey, I'm, I'm
15:57so glad you were able to beat this.
15:59I knew you were innocent all along, blah, blah, blah.
16:01And you know, that's my only real beef about the, the, the series so far is that, yeah,
16:06that he should have utilized all his resources.
16:09Exactly.
16:10Definitely.
16:11Definitely.
16:11The one scene that I loved watching the first time through, and even more of the second and
16:16third time as I was watching for these podcasts is, uh, Izzy meets with the, uh, Arthur Schultz,
16:22the, uh, bio green EPA expert.
16:24And the actor is actually Adam Shapiro.
16:27And I actually got to meet him on my set visit that one day, even though I was there for
16:32episode
16:3210, he was there.
16:33He has a side gig of making pretzels.
16:37At least one of his side gigs is making pretzels.
16:39He's not just a guest star, but he's been in, uh, shows like the bear as well.
16:43And a few handful of episodes, if anybody's watched those episodes, but he makes really
16:47good homemade pretzels.
16:49And I remember, uh, cause we got to chat with him for a little bit.
16:52I remember him telling people around us, you know, it's like trying to find yeast during
16:56the pandemic was like, almost like making back alley deals.
17:00He felt like he was making back alley deals just to get yeast to make pretzels.
17:03So it's kind of funny story.
17:06I'll try you five gold coins for some yeast.
17:08Exactly.
17:09So I like how Izzy's kind of taking the charge here, finding, you know, potential witnesses
17:14for the defense as well.
17:16So that was, yeah, they had two different court cases going on at once in this episode.
17:20I don't know.
17:20You had Lorna's case.
17:21You had Mickey's case.
17:22It's funny too.
17:23Cause I actually got to interview Paula Garces for episode nine.
17:27Anyways, they use the same courtroom.
17:28They just dress it up differently for the two different cases.
17:31So it was the same set, but they dress it up a little bit differently for each court scene.
17:37Oh, let's see here.
17:38Did that one.
17:39So it's your turn.
17:40What do you, what else do you got?
17:41I mean, that was really, like I said, we had the two different court cases, you know,
17:45we, we know Lauren is going to figure it out, but how?
17:47Yes.
17:47Well, she seemed to have an idea at the end of the episode there.
17:50So I'm curious to see what light bulb went off in her head when Izzy was saying, we got
17:54to take a different look at this type of thing.
17:56I know you did ask me what my favorite character of the season was so far.
18:01And I do like the guy that was his protection in jail.
18:03What's his name?
18:04Bamba.
18:05Yeah.
18:05Bamba.
18:05So he's my, he's been my guy so far.
18:07Yeah.
18:08No, I'm just so far, you know, he helped him out.
18:10You know, he looked out for Mickey when he needed to.
18:11And yes, you know, he did what he did, what he's getting paid to do.
18:14Definitely.
18:15And that's interesting that even Mickey needs a security.
18:18Well, up through episode five, I didn't really care for the character.
18:21Cause it like right at the beginning, it's like, he's sitting in a cell, you know, it's
18:25like, was he even watching over Mickey as Mickey gets pushed off?
18:28He was going to let Mickey get shanked or something.
18:30Exactly.
18:30And then episode five, it's like, he's blaring his music.
18:33He cares more about the music than driving Mickey in that low riding car and driving
18:38over speed bumps, making the parts fly.
18:40But yes, he did have that redemption arc in episode seven.
18:45Yeah.
18:45Right.
18:45The last episode we, we discussed it on the last scene where Bamba, you know, gets the
18:52guy that's trying to attack Mickey off of him and Bamba starts getting attacked.
18:56And that's the so-called riot.
18:57Yeah, exactly.
18:58I'm hoping Bamba's okay now.
19:00It's like, yeah, I crapped on him pretty much all year, but now that he actually helped
19:04protect Mickey, I'm like, oh, I hope nothing bad happens to him.
19:08Yeah.
19:08So Dana throws a couple of curve balls in this episode.
19:11First one being Jessica Westfeld.
19:14And I love how Maggie got her testimony knocked down.
19:17It's basically, she's only testifying because she's pissed because she interned at Mickey
19:21or Holler and Associates.
19:22And now she can't find a job because he's on trial for murder.
19:25And then the second curve ball she throws is she has Mickey step into a trap where he's
19:31cross-examining Drucker and Drucker had come across some kind of email or something that
19:37led to a website thing for donations to be donated to a charity.
19:43But obviously Sam Scales is running a scam as always, scamming Scales as always.
19:48So yeah.
19:49They don't know if the scam and that's, you know, Scales was doing is even involved.
19:54You know what I'm saying?
19:55But that's what, that's where the, the, you know, the rabbit hole is leading.
19:58Exactly.
19:59We're not even there yet.
20:00Like we're still trying to figure out how Mickey's going to get out of this.
20:02How long, like, we're, you know, this was episode eight.
20:05Yeah.
20:05There's still two more episodes to go.
20:07So you think a lot of crazy shit's going to happen over the next two episodes.
20:09I mean, we, and on top of that, it's not even like, okay, he's going to bring this
20:13guy in for episode nine.
20:14He's going to get them off, you know, with the testimony, Alex Gagritsky or whatever his
20:17name is.
20:18And then episode 10, you know, this is going to be the setup for the next season.
20:22No, we don't know where we're at.
20:23I know still two more episodes.
20:25We haven't seen the defense, but I know Maggie had said something about, you know, she sees
20:29that Dana would probably end her side of the case the next day.
20:33You know, they just had to survive this type of thing.
20:36So, so, oh, that's the other thing too.
20:38They were talking about a potential October surprise on Dana's part.
20:41So I don't know if this email thing was going to be that October surprise or Jessica being,
20:47you know, called as an October surprise.
20:50Or does she have another October surprise that we're going to see next episode?
20:53I think so, because the next episode is titled October surprise.
20:57Well, then I guess it wasn't what happened this episode, Mike.
21:00Exactly.
21:01I know.
21:03All right.
21:04Any other notes from you on the favorite moments or anything like that?
21:09Just really more, like I said, I like the Cisco aspect as he's chasing down this couple and
21:14he's kind of just stalking them the whole time.
21:16And then they see the bad guys.
21:17He's like, that's just it.
21:18There's something wrong.
21:18These bad guys.
21:20I don't think, you know, he seemed more scared of them than I am.
21:23Yes.
21:23And then, boom, you know, shakalaka.
21:26So, yeah.
21:27Did you spot right away that was Janine pushing the laundry cart past Cisco when he went to
21:31I knew.
21:32Yeah, I knew that.
21:32I knew there was a trick right away.
21:34I was like, they're scheming to get out of it.
21:35Once you tell us get out of it, I was like, they're scheming that, you know, they're smart
21:38criminals.
21:39I'm just surprised that Cisco even fell for it the first time.
21:42Yeah.
21:42Me too.
21:42I was surprised.
21:44I was surprised, too.
21:45He would have thought he would have caught on a little quicker.
21:47But at the same time, it led to that nice chase, you know, chase scene with the car
21:52and the mini and everything.
21:53It was funny that way.
21:55But at the same time, not funny how it ends, because obviously it took Cisco too long to
22:00figure out what was going on with those two goons, unfortunately.
22:04Yeah.
22:05By the time he figured it out, it was over.
22:06Yeah.
22:07Over for Gazarian.
22:08That's for sure.
22:10So now, yeah, I guess he goes back empty handed, right?
22:12Oh, no.
22:13He's got to go find the girl.
22:15Yeah.
22:15He's definitely got to go find the girl now.
22:17Because they're probably going to kill her next, because they didn't kill her in this
22:20episode, right?
22:20Nope.
22:21She was still alive.
22:22She was heading down to the pool, unless the goons got her on the way down to the pool.
22:26I feel like they would have showed us that.
22:28Yeah.
22:28Consider they just showed us a guy falling through a car.
22:31Yeah.
22:31Considering the end of the episode.
22:34Well, pretty much on that front.
22:35But yeah, who knows where she's at.
22:37And, you know, maybe they get her.
22:38Maybe that's the star of the next episode.
22:40It's like, hey, look, this is the girl, Pop.
22:42Yeah.
22:42The girl's dead.
22:43Bye-bye.
22:44You know, we don't know, so it's not a spoiler alert, because it's just Pete talking shit
22:46alert.
22:48Exactly.
22:49Yeah.
22:49We all like to talk and have fun in our conversations.
22:52It's always a fun thing.
22:54Oh, I just wanted to kind of bring up Lorna's prelim trial quickly here.
22:58So I know we've touched on a little bit that she had kind of a rough day in that courtroom
23:04because the community security guard was called to testify after, I think, Rashad Harrison, the witness, quote unquote, who was
23:12hiding in the storeroom.
23:13But the community security guard testified that he tried administering CPR on Gary, who was Carter's business partner.
23:21And apparently that he claims this security guard testified in court saying that Gary had said the word Carter or
23:29what sounded like Carter as he was trying to do CPR.
23:32So that was a huge hit on Lorna for her prelim trial.
23:36So, but like we said, at the end of the episode, Izzy was saying something about something about what are
23:41the chances Gary would live long enough to ID the shooter and Lorna calls someone to get an assist.
23:47Listen, that don't matter.
23:48They're not going to show you Lorna in a court case and that she's going to lose.
23:52She's obviously going to win.
23:53She's going to use one of Mickey's tricks or figure it out or use, you know, something.
23:57Maybe there'll be like a legal beagle flashback where like something he says triggers her and then all of a
24:03sudden she's like, that's it.
24:04I got it all, you know, or maybe something you look like what something is.
24:08He said my triggers like we don't know.
24:10Yes, but I know she's not losing this case.
24:12I don't I don't see it happening.
24:14She can't take another loss.
24:15We saw her take a loss a few episodes back with the lady claiming that the vegan donuts weren't vegan
24:20and she apparently ate two.
24:21And then so that was kind of a bust.
24:23And then she actually got a win for the other divorce client and she kind of got a win for
24:28Bamba, but it was kind of a Bamba still has to serve time.
24:31So which is not going to be good for him.
24:33No, but at least like like legal said, you know, he'll be out in under a year.
24:37So hopefully if he gets out, if he gets out, hopefully, man, if there's one thing I know, they don't
24:42let you leave gangs that easily.
24:44True, but he is making the effort.
24:47But once you start like he's in jail, he's already made enemies right now.
24:51True.
24:51He starts getting, you know, stop hanging with the people that protect you at this point.
24:56You can even make it a year.
24:57Well, I hope so.
24:58I don't know.
24:59Cops don't like him because didn't he then you get in trouble for calling the cop like a curse or
25:03something over like the stupidest thing about, you know, shove it up your butt sideways or something like that.
25:08Yeah, over the stupidest thing.
25:10So, like I said, I don't think it's going to work out very well for him.
25:13That's my dude.
25:13Listen, I hope he's out and I hope he's working for Mickey soon enough, but not right now.
25:17Yeah, I want to see him back as long as he survived this attack that he had.
25:22So your character spotlight was Bamba.
25:24I love that choice, by the way, because like I said, I've been hating on him all season long.
25:28So it's kind of good to see him get some love.
25:30So I don't want to cheat as being, you know, Mickey or Maggie as my character spotlight.
25:36So I know other people have given this guy love, too.
25:39But Judge Stone throughout the man throughout these eight episodes has been really playing both sides really fairly and even
25:46and equal.
25:47So I love seeing that, you know, especially at the start of the episode when everybody's talking about what should
25:52be done with Mickey and he goes, well, this is a cluster.
25:56And they cut him off before he says the entire F word, which was hilarious.
25:59I love that scene.
26:00I like how it was written and cut and edited.
26:02So it was awesome to see that.
26:04The judge, I thought for sure that the judge was going to be like a jerk to Mickey throughout the
26:07season.
26:08But it's really been like he's really awesome.
26:11So I like I mean, we mentioned in the mashup, too, he was that's my you know, it's one of
26:14my favorites this whole season is the judge also.
26:16So, yep, Bamba and Judge Stone, kudos to you.
26:20Hello.
26:20Already.
26:21Well, let's get to our sparks meter and then we'll try to wrap this up.
26:25So what do you have for your sparks meter for this episode?
26:27Since it's the only episode that I will be podcasting this season with you guys as far as in-depth
26:32coverage, I will give it a five.
26:34Nice.
26:35So even if I didn't think it deserved a five, I'm just going to give it a five anyway.
26:37So it gets five sparks.
26:38Glad to hear it.
26:39I had a four point seven five.
26:41That's not too shy or south of yours.
26:44Great episode.
26:44Great ending.
26:45You know, we got some answers.
26:47I think both prosecution and defense kind of hit singles or doubles.
26:51You know, Dana made some points, but also kind of some of the testimony kind of went kittywampus a little
26:57bit, especially Jessica's.
26:59I think, you know, I think they really scored some points with Jessica's cross-examination being.
27:03They go back and forth because Dana brings up a good point and the ballistic expert.
27:08Yes.
27:09And then solidified her point.
27:11And then Maggie had her point and he solidified that point.
27:14So it's a chess game.
27:15Yeah.
27:16Chess or checkers.
27:17Either way.
27:17Or is it backgammon?
27:18Who knows?
27:19It's one of those games.
27:21Game of the minds type of thing.
27:23Awesome.
27:23And that'll wrap up the discussion with Pete and I on this episode of The Lincoln Lawyer, Season 4, Episode
27:308.
27:31Stay tuned after our goodbyes to hear Part 1 of 2 of the interview with showrunner Dalen Rodriguez.
27:37You can listen to Part 2 at the end of our Season 4, Episode 10, Lincoln Law Pod, to close
27:42out the season.
27:42And with that, Pete, let's say our goodbyes.
27:45Pete, I can't thank you enough for joining us for this Episode 8 discussion.
27:49I'm glad to hear your voice for the first time in The Lincoln Law Pod.
27:52And I'm looking forward to so many mashups with you down the road here as well.
27:57So I appreciate your time and let's say goodbye.
27:59It's been a pleasure.
28:00Peace, everybody.
28:00Until next season.
28:01All righty.
28:02Have a great rest of your day, everybody.
28:04Thanks for tuning in.
28:05Talk to you on the next one.
28:05So Many Shows was able to sit down with co-showrunner Dalen Rodriguez to ask her questions we had from
28:11Season 4 of The Lincoln Lawyer, which is available now on Netflix.
28:15Dalen, thank you so much for taking the time out of your busy schedule for this interview.
28:19You wear a lot of hats for The Lincoln Lawyer, co-showrunner, writer, director.
28:23Any other hats that you wear for the production?
28:27I mean, no, not really.
28:29I mean, people do like to, you know, have a nickname that follows me for my last show.
28:33People call me La Jefa, which means the boss.
28:35But I am a co-boss, but it just stuck around with me.
28:41That's funny.
28:42Now, I know these questions are kind of season, they're all Season 4 specific.
28:46So I apologize for the timing on it because you guys are already diving into Season 5 already.
28:51So I hope you can remember some of the moments that I bring up.
28:54I hope so.
28:55Yeah.
28:56Mainly the opening shot of Season 4.
28:59I just loved it, how it was like a downtown L.A. look.
29:02And then it kind of zooms out to a suburb of L.A.
29:05And then you see like a shot going down to a street and then into a bullet hole of a
29:10bakery.
29:10I was just kind of curious how you guys got all those shots filmed.
29:14Yeah, it was a combination of drone work and helicopter work.
29:19Nice.
29:20So we did a lot.
29:22It was the first time we used a helicopter, which is pretty cool.
29:25And like basically at some point once you get towards the shooting and where the tree is and the bakery,
29:33at some point sort of it hands off to a drone and then the rest of that is a drone
29:38shot.
29:39And, you know, and some special effects and all that jazz, you know.
29:43Well, it seems seamless.
29:45So I'm like, but I'm like.
29:46There's a lot of choreography.
29:47It's very complicated and very expensive.
29:50Oh, yeah.
29:51Well, thank you, Netflix, for footing the bill for those.
29:54Yeah.
29:56The other question I had was there's quite a bit of jail scenes, obviously, in the first half of the
30:01season.
30:02Yeah.
30:02Did anybody get a look inside the Twin Towers or the module that Mickey was being held in for kind
30:09of trying to create the sets?
30:11Yeah.
30:11I mean, our Andrew, our production designer, does all the research for all that stuff before he designs it.
30:18We actually couldn't shoot there, obviously.
30:21So it was a set that we build on our stages.
30:24And so it's a replica, basically, of what that looks like inside.
30:30Yeah.
30:30Yeah, I got to see the set, part of the jail set when I got my set visit day last
30:35summer.
30:37So because it was before tearing them down.
30:39So unless you guys are reusing them, who knows?
30:42You know, we use parts of the jail stuff sometimes, you know, because that is the nature of our show.
30:49Mickey is always in and out of jails, talking to his clients or soon-to-be clients.
30:55A hundred percent, yeah.
30:56Nice.
30:57And what kind of permissions were involved with getting, like, closer up to the jail?
31:03We see some exterior shots of the jail.
31:05Did you guys have to ask for permission?
31:05Yeah, it was pretty cool.
31:06This season, they were actually really excited to work with us this season.
31:11We tried in the past.
31:12And then I guess there was somebody new in charge that was a big fan of the Lincoln Lawyer.
31:17And actually, that was, I think, the first time we shot.
31:20It was my episode in 407.
31:22We shot inside the visitation part where, like, people are waiting to go in to visit their loved ones.
31:27And Lorna comes out and has that phone call.
31:29That was the first time we were able to shoot there.
31:31And that's the real location.
31:33Basically, if I remember correctly, there's, like, two days out of the week that only lawyers go in and out.
31:39And there are no family members.
31:40So it's easier to shoot on those days.
31:42And if memory serves, that's why they let us shoot that day.
31:46But they've been much more amenable to us this season.
31:49And they also let us shoot where Mickey comes out, where they release all the people who have bailed out
31:55of jail or have been found innocent and are coming out.
31:59We did it with Carter Gates.
32:00And then we did it with Mickey also.
32:02So they were just really, oddly enough, even though it's the sheriff's department, they love this show, even though we
32:08talk shit about that.
32:09I don't really get it.
32:11But, hey, I'll take it.
32:12Yeah, exactly.
32:13Yeah, speaking of which, it's like I was doing the math with season four being, you know, Mickey making enemies
32:19with the sheriff's department, FBI, and the jail in general.
32:23It's like season five is going to be based off of Resurrection Walk, where, once again, Mickey's making enemies with
32:29the sheriff's department.
32:30It's actually, if I can be totally honest with you, Mike, it's loosely based on Resurrection Walk.
32:35Yeah, we have to be careful.
32:36I know that they've put that out there, but I don't want to promise too much to the fans because
32:41because of exactly what you said, we kind of had to go away a little bit from some of that
32:47story because it's too similar to what we just did in season four.
32:52So we would be repeating ourselves.
32:54So we've taken some of the fact pattern of the crime and some aspects of Resurrection Walk, but it's it
33:00really is a much looser adaptation than we've done before on any of his books.
33:06Just because we were trying to avoid repetition.
33:09Yeah, I remember when I interviewed Matthew, he was saying that you kind of you guys are kind of going
33:13for a little further away from the books with each passing season.
33:17I love that because then it's not exactly the same thing.
33:20It's like, yeah, there was moments in season four.
33:22I'm like, oh, here comes this.
33:24And it was something totally different.
33:25I'm like, oh, never mind.
33:26Yeah, yeah.
33:27I mean, we we you know, we've said this before.
33:30It's like we have to modernize some of some of the stuff because the books are a little dated at
33:35this point.
33:36And and some stuff just doesn't work on TV the way that it works in a novel.
33:39Like, for example, the Law of Innocence is a really internal book.
33:43It's very like Mickey's in jail and he's in jail for almost the entire book.
33:48We couldn't do that.
33:49So we had to we had to change that up because that's just not the nature of our show.
33:53We can't just have Mickey depressed in a sale in a cell for yes for 10 episodes.
33:57So like there's certain things you have to do to be able to dramatize a novel.
34:02And so a lot of times you have to go away.
34:04And like I said, we couldn't just we just did this whole thing with the sheriff's department.
34:07We can't then do another season.
34:08We're like, oh, there are gangs in the sheriff's department.
34:11Well, kind of pretty obvious because we kind of saw that in season four, you know.
34:15Well, that's great to hear.
34:17Let's see here.
34:18I don't know if you you might not know this.
34:20I'm hoping you do.
34:21I saw a couple incidents or instances where Mickey is having or sharing dumplings with
34:28either he's eating them by himself before he gets a hold of Maggie while she's at the
34:32Lakers game.
34:32And then they're eating him and Haley are sharing dumplings later on.
34:36Are those the octopus dumplings that were mentioned?
34:38I don't know.
34:39I don't think so.
34:40No, I don't think so.
34:41I think it's just generally another L.A. restaurant.
34:45And I don't think we were specific about that one, you know.
34:48Well, that's good to hear because I was just curious because I'm like, oh, is this a callback?
34:51Because I asked my co-hosts on episode two and when I saw that scene or episode three,
34:56when I saw that scene, I'm like, oh, I wonder if those are the octopus dumplings.
34:59But it's all good.
35:00My mind just kind of always.
35:02I get it.
35:02Yeah.
35:03I remember back in season one, you guys had difficulty with Trevor Elliott's car.
35:08And I was curious if the Dodge truck that Cisco is driving in season four was as bad
35:14as it seems on camera.
35:15Or do you guys just kind of make it rougher looking when it's like trying to drive up
35:19hills and stuff like that?
35:20It's pretty rough.
35:22It is pretty rough.
35:23The car is pretty rough.
35:24I mean, it's meant to feel like he bought it for nothing off a Gardner.
35:29So, yeah, it's pretty rough.
35:31I mean, it runs and it does the job, but it's a pretty rough car.
35:35Yeah.
35:35And will we see that in season five of the truck?
35:40As of right now, we are not seeing the truck.
35:42I think the truck may have died.
35:45And I think he's back on his motorcycle because the truck didn't make it.
35:50Good.
35:51Well, any chance to see Cisco riding his Harley is always a good thing.
35:56It is.
35:57And let's see here.
35:59Just as a funny kind of question, how many paletas were lost in the filming of season
36:03four?
36:04Oh, boy.
36:05How many paletas were lost?
36:07A few.
36:08I mean, Manuel really liked eating that paleta.
36:13I don't know.
36:14He probably dropped.
36:15I wasn't.
36:16I was only there for half that filming day.
36:17So I don't actually.
36:18You would have had to have asked Matthew.
36:19He would have probably known how many.
36:21But probably at least at least at least five.
36:25OK.
36:25We're probably lost to the ground.
36:28Did you know what Manuel or what Mickey sprinkles on?
36:32Is that toxic?
36:33Yeah, it's a very common Mexican thing that they do.
36:37And also they do in L.A. because of our Mexican culture that's so huge here.
36:42It's called tajin.
36:44And it's like this spicy mix that they put a lot.
36:47I don't know if you saw it at all when you were in L.A. visiting.
36:50But there's a lot of those fruit trucks all over the place, which is really common.
36:54And it's usually you get a fruit thing, which like with jicama and like other fruit.
36:58And then they put the tajin on it.
37:01And so like, yeah, it's it's T-A-J-I-N.
37:05And then so he put a little bit on the lemon paleta.
37:08So it's like a common.
37:09They add like a tiny little bit of spice to it.
37:12Yeah.
37:12Awesome.
37:12Because Pete and I were trying to figure out if it was hot sauce or something.
37:15So it's so it's kind of like powder.
37:18It's like in a powder form.
37:19OK, great.
37:20Yeah, I appreciate that.
37:22Because we're like I said, we're kind of discussing it's like, I don't know.
37:25The bottle kind of looked like this, but now already.
37:28And we're going to kind of end on two sadder note kind of questions for the for this first half
37:33of our interview here.
37:34Were any other restaurants discussed for Legal Seagull's final meal restaurant?
37:39We know that Langer's was his choice.
37:41He got the number 19 with a side of Russian dressing.
37:45So I was just kind of curious if any other restaurants were discussed.
37:48No, we wanted to shooting Langer's and we it's we felt like it was the most character specific that that's
37:56where you would want to eat if he was downtown.
37:58You know, it's such like an L.A. landmark.
38:01So we always had Langer's on our mind.
38:04We didn't we didn't even scout anything else.
38:06So it was always Langer's.
38:07Yeah, I'm glad to hear that because Langer's is top notch pastrami sandwiches for sure.
38:13I'm glad to hear that.
38:15So I just figured I'd ask you if you had a choice to eat a meal or from any restaurant
38:21as a final meal.
38:22If you had a choice, what would that be?
38:24If I had a choice?
38:26Yes.
38:26Where I would eat as my final.
38:28Oh, my God.
38:29I know.
38:29Sorry.
38:30I don't know.
38:31That is terrible.
38:32I don't know.
38:35Did he have an answer for this?
38:37Did Matthew have an answer for this?
38:39Matthew said Langer's would be a good choice for me personally.
38:43I said the for if I had to choose like a restaurant, I choose the smokehouse for the garlic bread
38:49and the steak Sinatra.
38:52And it has to be an L.A. restaurant.
38:54It doesn't have to be an L.A. restaurant.
38:55Well, it doesn't have to be an L.A. restaurant.
38:57If you could pick a restaurant or just a meal in general from somewhere as a final meal.
39:03I mean, in my world, I would probably go to a very nice French bistro and have a bowl of
39:11mussels and French fries as my last meal.
39:15Because that's one of my favorite things in the world.
39:19And if there's an American French restaurant that has them as good, then I would probably eat them there.
39:25But my husband makes it.
39:26So he makes it when I'm having a bad day.
39:30He makes me some mussels.
39:31So that's yeah, that's my thing.
39:33I don't eat beef.
39:34So steakhouses are out for me.
39:37And diners aren't going to happen for me either.
39:40But like I'd probably eat a seafood meal somewhere is really my thing.
39:45Well, I'm glad to hear that.
39:46And SMS was really sad to see legal go.
39:51But at the same time, we had a sentiment that in the book, he kind of had dementia towards the
39:55end.
39:55So we loved the send off that he had.
39:58The writers in general, I didn't see the twist coming when Lorna gets that phone call.
40:03And we think it's Cisco.
40:04And then she breaks into Nikki.
40:06Yeah, it was a good twist.
40:06My heart sank.
40:08So incredible writing and incredible job on that specific episode ending there for everybody involved in that.
40:17So this will end our first half of our interview.
40:20I appreciate your time.
40:21And I'm looking forward to finding out what other questions I have here for answers for the last three episodes
40:26of the season.
40:27So have a good rest of your day.
40:28And we'll talk to you later.
40:29Oh, you just want to say thank you so much.
40:31It was nice talking to you.
40:32Yes.
40:33And with the conclusion of the interview with Dalen Rodriguez, that'll wrap up our discussion about this episode of The
40:39Lincoln Lawyer, which all four seasons are available on Netflix.
40:43We thank you for tuning in and we hope you enjoyed this episode of The Lincoln Law Pod, which is
40:47a part of So Many Shows and SoManyShows.com.
40:50The website is currently undergoing maintenance.
40:52So for the time being, you can find this podcast and others on the So Many Shows YouTube channel.
40:57While there, keep an eye open for constantly dropping mashup podcasts in which we discuss a variety of shows.
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41:18We will reconvene as soon as possible for the next episode, so stay tuned.
41:22Thank you for joining and talk to you on the next one.
41:42We'll see you on the next one.
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