00:00Just the mood music around Anthropic, the power that it has, the use of Claude, the enterprise adoption, it all
00:07seems to be very strong right now, Peter. Are there any concerns that you have?
00:12I think when you own a business and when you invest in any company, you always have concerns around companies.
00:19It's our job to worry about the holdings that we have.
00:21But I think that what we're seeing at Anthropic at the moment is unprecedented. In 15 years of investing, I've
00:29never seen a company of this scale grow this quickly.
00:33And I think what we're seeing is a company that is really pushing the edges of all the boundaries of
00:40where AI can be brought to bear in real world applications, initially in coding, which really broke out last year.
00:47And with Mythos models, we're starting to see how it can really impact cybersecurity as well.
00:55What has been notable, apart from Mythos, has been the adoption, the ARR, that they're managing to post $30 billion,
01:02and the amount of enterprises that are now using it, even in the face of concern that they are suing
01:09the government because of the current blacklisting singled out by the Pentagon.
01:13How is that narrative driving what you think about Anthropic at the moment?
01:18Well, when we invested in Anthropic, one of the reasons we liked the business was the principal approach they took
01:25to safety.
01:26Now, that, I think, has informed how they're approaching the Mythos models, and it's informed the approach that they've had
01:32with the Department of War.
01:35So, whilst we would, of course, rather not see them in this disagreement with the Department of War, I think,
01:42and the company have said this, that there's more that unites them than divides them with the Department of War.
01:47And I think it's important to us to see a company standing by the underlying principles, which enables them to
01:51flourish and enables them to attract and retain key talent.
01:56What has been so interesting about the headline generation from Mythos is that people are looking at the model itself.
02:03You know, Caroline's absolutely right, the revenue run rate, all those kind of classic measures for late-stage startups.
02:10But just your sort of response to the model's capability, Anthropic's place in a group of five or six frontier
02:19labs that are trying to do exactly that, very big models with great capability.
02:25Yeah, I mean, what we've seen with these LLMs is that the capabilities of the leading-edge models will quickly
02:35become available to the trailing-edge models.
02:38And then what separates the likes of Anthropic or OpenAI is their ability to continuously stay at the leading edge.
02:43And so, as a citizen, it does concern me that there will be these capabilities, which today are in the
02:52hands of Anthropic, who we trust.
02:55But I think it is inevitable that these tools, whether in the Mythos model or developed by other foundational models,
03:03will become more widely available.
03:05And I think that leaves a lot of enterprises, a lot of governments, a lot of economic systems vulnerable to
03:11attacks.
03:14A lot of focus in the United States on Anthropic.
03:18There was a headline this morning that OpenAI, which you are not an investor in, is opening a permanent London
03:23office, having wound down the Stargate project in the U.K.
03:27I ask you all that basically to push you on whether people outside of the United States see that same
03:33level of battle that's going on between the frontier labs
03:36and whether the release of a model like Mythos impacts everyday people in the United Kingdom or in Europe.
03:43I think in the very short term, the everyday person on the street is not impacted this week or next
03:51week.
03:52But are these models going to impact all of our lives in the months and years to come?
03:57Like, yes, absolutely.
03:59I think that here in the U.K., those that are in the industry, those that follow this are just
04:04as aware and on top of what's going on as is in the U.S.
04:09But I think that within the U.K., there isn't such a sort of cultural resonance of developments in technology
04:17as perhaps there is in the U.S.
04:19by virtue of the fact that it's such a large and important part of the U.S. economy.
04:23And in the U.K., sadly, it is not such a dominant part of our economy.
04:28I mean, Peter, what hasn't been notable is while we're all spellbound by AI, the whole world has been spellbound
04:35by space over the course of the weekend.
04:37And I'm interested, therefore, in your exposure to SpaceX and exposure to XAI in many ways.
04:43How are you thinking about this moment that everyone's world changes if they get access to some of these big
04:48companies, not just being private, but potential to be public as well?
04:53I think it's important that everyday investors are able to access these kinds of companies.
04:58And so I think these companies coming to the public markets is overall a good thing.
05:02I think what is in many ways a shame for the everyday investor is that there is so much growth
05:07that has already happened before these companies come to the public markets.
05:12And it's not just Anthropoc. It's not just SpaceX.
05:15You could look at ByteDance, for instance, in China, the owner of TikTok.
05:18So ByteDance today is 40 to 50 times larger in revenue and profit than Facebook was when it listed.
05:27That's a leg of growth, an enormous amount of growth, which has accrued to private market investors, which is foregone
05:35by public market investors.
05:37And so this is why we invest in these companies is to be able to give our clients access to
05:41this growth that's happening privately.
05:43Historically, that happened in the public markets, but where you can only really do growth investing properly today if you
05:50are doing it in both the private and the public markets.
05:53Peter, I know we've had the opportunity to speak to you a lot recently.
05:56Just very quickly, at this point, does the market understand the economics of Orbital Data Center ahead of this SpaceX
06:03IPO?
06:05No, I don't think the market does understand the economics of Orbital Data Centers.
06:09I think that this is a very nascent idea and nascent technology.
06:14And where that value can potentially accrue, I think, is through the vertical integration with the models.
06:19If we get to this place where power for computing AI models is existential pinch point for these businesses.
06:28So, in short, no, I think it's not yet well understood.
06:31It doesn't, in a sense, exist yet.
06:33But I think what is well understood at SpaceX is the incredible launch business they have and the incredible economics
06:39of Starlink.
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