00:00So is it that the mall isn't performing well or is it that this was the one rare case of
00:05unionization?
00:06Well, this tees up what is likely to be a years-long legal battle potentially over that question,
00:13whether this was a legal retaliation or simply a business decision.
00:17It's not inherently illegal for a company to shut down a unionized location,
00:22but it is illegal for a company to retaliate against workers for organizing by shutting down.
00:28And across various industries, it is often one of the biggest fears workers have about unionizing
00:34is that it could lead the company to retaliate by shutting down their business.
00:39How would evidence be weighed here?
00:42I mean, several retailers, we know Crate & Barrel, Banana Republic, have pulled back from that particular mall,
00:46but they're not on electronics sellers as well.
00:49And so what is it that you've tended to see come forward in these years-long battles?
00:53The U.S. Labor Board, when it conducts an investigation, talks to various witnesses, looks at documents.
01:01Sometimes there are internal communications that come up that influence the decision whether to issue a complaint.
01:08Then the case proceeds through many steps after that that can end up in federal appeals court.
01:13The union will point out, as they have, that Apple, they say, is not letting the union members that are
01:20losing their jobs
01:21get the same right to transfer to other jobs that workers at the other two stores being closed down are
01:28getting.
01:29And the union argues that shows the animus against the union here.
01:32In the meantime, though, this upends one of the few footholds that organized labor had at Apple.
01:40And it could have a chilling effect on organizing elsewhere, regardless of what happens with a potential legal case.
01:46The International Association of Mechanists and Aerospace Workers, how do they think Apple will unionize ever again or not, briefly?
01:56Well, they're arguing that they will put pressure on the company, including looking to elected officials.
02:01We've seen sometimes these fights become as much about a company's brand and reputation as about the day-to-day
02:09profit of the company.
02:10And unions look for whatever leverage they can to push back in these situations.
02:15And unions look for whatever leverage they can to push back in these situations.
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