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Dirty Rotten Scandals - Season 1 - Episode 03: America's Next Top Model Pt. 1
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00:12Over 20 years ago, I created a television show called America's Next Top Model.
00:18Tyra Banks at the Essence Awards made an appearance because she was getting awarded as a luminary.
00:23You guys have no idea how hard we fought to bring the diversity to that television show
00:31at a time when the world was like, what? You're casting that and what? And what is that?
00:36The mistakes were severe.
00:39I trusted you with my dreams. How dare you take my f***ing life away from me?
00:47Thousands of aspiring models stood in line for a chance to be America's Next Top Model.
00:52I'm from St. Louis, Missouri, Virginia, Salt Lake City, Utah.
00:55Just come on up.
00:56We were actually looking to give someone a dynamic career.
01:00Tyra really was the holy grail.
01:05Tyra Banks was the air that we breathed.
01:09Everyone wanted to be her.
01:12But truth of the matter, she was a hardcore b***h.
01:17Do you know what I'm doing, fooling you?
01:18Your pictures have been wah, wah, wah.
01:22Be quiet, everybody. Be quiet.
01:24That's what is wrong with you.
01:26Stop it.
01:27The crazier the models were, the better ratings they got on television.
01:32I don't understand why I don't have any friends.
01:34I break my daughter all day.
01:36What do you f***ing say?
01:45It was a TV show.
01:48Tyra was trying to create great television.
01:52In 2020, Top Model clips started showing up on social media.
01:57Yo, Tyra and her little crew, they were hella problematic.
02:00Gen Z, God bless them, were like, hey, this is bad.
02:04We are actually going to switch your ethnicity.
02:07This is racist.
02:08This is all people see.
02:09Easy reads beautiful color, girl.
02:11This is abusive.
02:12Destiny.
02:17Tyra declined many requests to give a public statement,
02:21which is why her essence moment was so significant.
02:23I refuse to have my legacy be about some stuff linked together on the internet.
02:34You're breaking the girls down for public consumption.
02:38I was rooting for you.
02:39We were all rooting for you.
02:40How dare you?
02:41I had never shaved my head like that before.
02:44And they throw you out in the world.
02:45And they're like, yeah, feed you to the f***ing wolves.
02:47They're not looking for the next model.
02:48They could care less.
02:51All Tyra is doing is counting her money.
02:53It wasn't a modeling competition.
02:54It was psychological warfare.
02:57Borrow something from this.
03:14I was born in Harbor City, California.
03:21But it's all LA.
03:22All of it is LA.
03:24We are super close to where we filmed near Skid Row.
03:28I was like, Mom, I'm going on America's Next Top Model.
03:30I get to go to New York.
03:32And then I was like, surprise.
03:34You're going to be down the street from Skid Row.
03:39Boy, that was sketchy times.
03:41I guess it was, maybe it was cheaper.
03:45Maybe it was cheaper.
03:52Tyra Banks was not just a model.
03:56She was a superstar.
04:01Top Model was a pop culture sensation.
04:05Tyra considers herself an ugly duckling.
04:08There's this one image that she uses consistently.
04:11Anytime she talks about body images,
04:12she always starts with that photo.
04:13It wasn't just that gawky, cute, skinny,
04:16oh, she's so gawky and young.
04:17It was, I looked ill.
04:18People thought I was sick.
04:19People used to stare at me.
04:21She was discovered around 17.
04:23And then she made her way to Paris.
04:27And then took over the runways from there.
04:32Tyra was a Victoria's Secret angel.
04:35She was on the cover of the Sports Illustrated Swimsuit Issue.
04:40But by the mid-2000s, Tyra was no longer a 17-year-old skinny little model.
04:46And so for Tyra's career to continue, she had to grow outside of just the modeling world.
04:55The early 2000s was like the wild, wild west, not just for the internet and social media at its infancy,
05:03but also shows like the real world, Survivor, American Idol were exploding in popularity.
05:13And Tyra Banks wanted to be a part of it.
05:15She had gone on to do some acting, some bit parts, but she never really made it big.
05:21The last time Tyra was in my memory as part of like popular culture was when she was dating Chris
05:30Webber.
05:30And I can't imagine that the Tyra Banks would like to go out on being just Chris Webber's girlfriend.
05:38Ex-girlfriend.
05:41Tyra wanted to extend her career and extend her visibility.
05:45The entertainment industry has always been very skeptical of models and whether or not they can act.
05:51And so it was really smart for Tyra to say the best role for me to play is me.
05:58Everybody out here wants to be America's next top model.
06:02Lay it to the camera.
06:06Because I'm involved in being part of the fashion industry for so long, it's quality control.
06:11It's not going to be like a joke.
06:12A person that wins is going to go from being nobody to being the star.
06:18Everyone wanted to be the next Tyra Banks, but the show was not only about trying to be a model.
06:24It was what happens when you take a dozen strangers and make them live together kind of show.
06:30I went in there so innocent.
06:32I thought I've never been a model before.
06:34I'm just learning.
06:35Who are these fabulous girls in this world that I want to be a part of?
06:38A lot of them were just out of high school.
06:41They thought that they would have the chance to have mentorship under Tyra and actually move towards a successful modeling
06:48career.
06:49It happened really, really fast.
06:51Here I am in the house.
06:52I live with the girls.
06:5424-7, every day really started off with Tyra showing up when it was time to do the competition.
07:00And that's when we had an idea of what the day was going to be like.
07:05So today, you guys are shooting a commercial.
07:07So this is where your stardom is solidified.
07:10What's lovely, it's formulaic, and we love a formula.
07:14First, there's always like a mini challenge or some sort of weird test.
07:18You'll be stepping on and off a moving carousel.
07:25Usually something that is loosely applied to the world of modeling.
07:30You're going to have to balance these items on top of your head.
07:36And then one of the most defining things about Top Model is the makeover episode.
07:44It usually comes around as a third to fourth episode, depending.
07:48Tyra comes in and is like, all right, basically, you guys all look bad.
07:53I know how to make you look good.
07:57And it did seem like the makeovers were engineered to make at least three people cry.
08:01I'm like a boy.
08:02Right now, yeah, it's a little Albert twist.
08:05But when they style it, it's your makeup done.
08:07It's going to be so pretty.
08:08You've got to trust me, okay?
08:10The makeup episodes every season were appointment television.
08:15And not because they were good.
08:17They want to see if you react excessively to stress to make a good show.
08:22And so in the fasting process, they asked personality questions to see whether or not you are a volatile person.
08:29We have a psychologist who comes and evaluates them even before they're chosen.
08:34The psych evaluations were no joke.
08:37I was in a room for two to four hours.
08:40They would ask, have you ever thought I wanted to commit suicide or hurt somebody?
08:44You hurt yourself.
08:45Are you depressed?
08:46It also shows Tyra, do we think they can handle the pressure?
08:51I don't like to cast for conflict.
08:54We just cast strong personalities.
08:58On my psychological evaluations, one of the questions that they ask was about my childhood.
09:04It did make me feel uncomfortable.
09:06But then I was like, well, this is reality TV.
09:09So I shrugged it off as nothing.
09:11The show is pretty transparent about how it wants to mine the backstories of its contestants.
09:19Tyra is trying to make a show that's entertaining, even if it is a little exploitative.
09:24So what's this about your relationship with your mom?
09:27They kept trying to pick and get more information about my mom.
09:33My mom was my abuser.
09:35My mom is the one that tortured me my whole life.
09:40They ask, what kind of abuse?
09:44How do you think your mom would feel right now?
09:49The show is shocking audiences by putting not just explosive confrontations on screen.
09:56You're basically presenting yourself like a moron, okay?
10:00And what are you doing, alcoholic bitch?
10:02But also asking a lot of its contestants to perform their kind of trauma on screen.
10:17I wasn't eating correctly.
10:19I wasn't sleeping.
10:22And I probably had a couple too many glasses of wine.
10:29I was just like always one moment away from like fully almost like losing it.
10:37Because they were weaponizing my childhood trauma, they just f***ed with me emotionally.
10:56Tyra made me look absolutely crazy.
10:59I felt like she decided we're going to make a mockery of you.
11:02And then the whole world on top of that is going to call you crazy and make fun of you.
11:08Corinne calls me an alcoholic bitch.
11:11That set the tone of what I've been called around the globe for over 15 years.
11:18I was set up to be publicly humiliated on repeat forever.
11:27I got into the editing bay and I was like, I love this!
11:32Fun putting it together, editing it.
11:36Not only is Tyra on set, but Tyra goes to every single editing session.
11:45She really sits there and knows exactly what she wants to see fold out on tape.
11:50Do you care to comment on Ken Mock calling Tyra a control freak?
11:55I managed to dodge that question really well, didn't I?
12:00No, absolutely not.
12:02Tyra a control freak?
12:03I don't know what you're talking about.
12:07Anyone who likes to think that Tyra is just the face of the show,
12:11I'm here to tell you that that is a complete lie.
12:15Tyra is the puppeteer
12:18that was being psychologically tortured
12:21for the entertainment of the world.
12:26And for Tyra Banks and the network's profit.
12:30And she did the same thing to all the other girls.
12:40So are you going to come back next season?
12:42To America's Top Model?
12:43Of course!
12:45Until they get sick of me or I say something wrong and they fire me.
12:51Tyra chose judges.
12:53They were always over the hill.
12:56Supermodels.
12:57It was Paulina Poroskova.
12:59It was like Twiggy.
13:00It was Janice Dickinson.
13:03So Tyra had the ability to say,
13:06these are my peers.
13:07But she still got to be younger and beautiful
13:10and inflate her presence.
13:15The most important judge is Tyra, but you really wanted somebody that was going to come in,
13:20that was going to kind of be a lightning rod.
13:23Someone who is not going to censor herself.
13:26I'm Janice Dickinson.
13:27I am the world's first supermodel.
13:30I coined the term.
13:32Ask anybody, it was me.
13:34Ha ha.
13:36I cast Janice.
13:38She was 100% my idea.
13:40I definitely wanted her because I was like, you know what?
13:43She seems like she's going to be really honest and really tell it like it is.
13:46I had no idea she was going to be as honest and tell it like it is as she is.
13:50It looks like you landed from another planet because you have so much teeth.
13:54You deranged.
13:55This photograph looks like the batteries died in her vibrator.
14:00The producers on America's Next Top Model, especially Tyra,
14:04were begging me to be harsher and cruel like Simon Cowell was on American Idol.
14:12Tyra was able to allow Janice to be the bully in a way that gave Tyra plausible deniability.
14:17It's like a Hitchcock film.
14:19Go back and forth, back and forth really fast to see what I mean.
14:27If she doesn't want to be the one to say,
14:28you look fat and disgusting and your thighs are jiggling,
14:30she doesn't have to say it.
14:33Because Janice is going to be willing to take the lump on that.
14:35You got to work on the thighs.
14:37That's the booty thing.
14:38You got to kind of, you really watch the diet and exercise.
14:42I was taken back by the judges in their comments.
14:45One minute they're saying, oh, you're just so beautiful.
14:48The next minute, oh, your body, look at this.
14:51You have all these issues.
14:52Ioana has a lovely face.
14:54I think she needs to definitely work on her body.
14:56I think, you know, I wouldn't want to see her in a swimsuit.
14:58It almost felt like you're in this vortex of a narcissistic relationship.
15:03Going from the love bombing back to getting devalued at the drop of a hat.
15:08See her back.
15:10Ioana has one problem and it's the midriff.
15:16I didn't know what my backside really looked like and to have cameras really zoning in on
15:21that and to be so young and to have, you know, other people commenting.
15:26There was a level of, I want to say, cruelness at that time that you wouldn't be able to get
15:32away with saying in this moment.
15:33Why don't we go around the room and talk about imperfections?
15:35What do you think yours is?
15:39It really kind of messed with my self-esteem.
15:45If you're sporting a gut, then you turn to the side and disguise it.
15:51Really, honestly, putting that on TV was really dangerous because I was so, so thin.
15:58I've had so many people message me and say that they developed eating disorders after
16:02watching and it sucks.
16:09I'm really very interesting in the early aughts.
16:12The biggest thing that I remember about Tyra was that people kept talking about how curvy
16:17she was.
16:18I represent the modeling world as a body that's fuller, it's thicker, it's got a booty.
16:23Are you considered a whole?
16:24In this industry, yeah.
16:26I'm like 20 pounds heavier than these girls, girl.
16:28Her body type is not that of like a 2000s era model, like a Kate Moss, skinny, heroin chic.
16:36Tyra was not that.
16:38This is the era where the idea was the double zero.
16:42Can you be able to wear low-rise pants and, you know, not have love handles?
16:46When Tyra would say stuff to people about their bodies, it felt like it was coming from
16:52like a place like deep in there where she was like, I haven't dealt with this yet, so
16:56let me just put it on you instead.
16:58I got the same stomach, girl, but I know how to hold it in.
17:01You got to work with what you got.
17:02It seems like Tyra is sort of working her s**t out on other people.
17:07She's been explicit that she was viewed as too big for the runway.
17:10And Tyra really projected a lot of her traumas onto women who weren't necessarily ready to
17:16receive it.
17:19Immediately, I was like, they're going to talk about my weight.
17:21That's going to be the thing.
17:22You are a little perhaps nervous about your body.
17:26Every question, everything we did got tied back to my weight.
17:31When I got the makeover, I looked great.
17:34It has since become the Karen haircut.
17:36It was like that short blonde with the...
17:39At the time, it was cool.
17:40But they were like, are you worried that the short hair is going to make you look fatter?
17:46What is it like being the biggest girl?
17:49I realized that I had been brought to this show to be other.
17:55Like, they were all the ideal.
17:57They were all what everyone in America, every woman should aspire to look like.
18:01And I was something else.
18:05It just confirmed every bad thought that an eating disorder had already planted in my head.
18:12There would always be a plus-size model or two, and they were kind of cannon fodder.
18:17It was, on one hand, saying, we want women of all sizes.
18:23But then when there were women of all sizes treating the women of different sizes like s***.
18:27You know your plus size.
18:28Suck a gut, baby.
18:29Anything hanging out?
18:30It looks nasty.
18:31They were just recruiting these women who weren't traditional model size and then throwing them to the wolves.
18:38Do you think that I'm going to be able to get a rack like this loaded with clothes in your
18:43size?
18:43I don't think that you realize how this whole modeling thing works.
18:48When she came in, Sarah was openly a plus-size model.
18:51But then, over the course of filming, Sarah lost weight.
18:55And that became a problem.
18:56I lost quite a bit of weight.
18:58People have said that, and I haven't been trying to, but people keep mentioning it.
19:03Sarah was told that you're pretty despite this thing.
19:07And by virtue of what production has you doing, you lose weight.
19:12And they hold that against you.
19:14The judges feel like you, Sarah.
19:16Your place in the industry is kind of confusing right now because models are so, so, so skinny for their
19:23plus size.
19:25I was told I was too thin for a plus-size model, but too fat to be an America's next
19:30top model.
19:31Tyra Banks can't shake up standards of beauty while ultimately crowning the person who suits the standard of beauty.
19:40Here she is reinforcing the status quo when she promised us the opposite.
19:45So when you create an environment that you told me was going to be better than this, and then you
19:51make it worse, that's up.
20:04One of the things the viewers never really realized we were going through is the amount of deliberation and the
20:11feedback from the judges.
20:12We might see a clip of one comment.
20:15I think it's the worst picture I've ever seen in my life.
20:18Your hair looks like a cockatoo there and here.
20:23But we would be in front of the judges for hours.
20:26The elimination days were usually minimum 12 hours, sometimes 18, until 2, 3, 4 in the morning.
20:35On the first day, one of the crew members warned us.
20:38They were like, look, a girl faints every week.
20:45So if you feel like you're feeling faint, don't be a hero.
20:48Raise your hand and someone will come help you.
20:50And I remember I thought, like, oh, my God, these skinny bitches can't even stand for a while.
20:56Like, and they're fainting.
20:58First day, it was me.
20:59I had to raise my hand and I almost went down.
21:03All of us were sleep deprived.
21:05All of us weren't able to eat enough food.
21:08They know what they're doing.
21:09It's all intentional.
21:13If you can get through the pressure and look like a model and get through judging and get through us
21:19being evil, just knock you down and build you back up, then you have what it takes to become America's
21:26next top model.
21:28The rules in the house were challenging.
21:30Lights were always on, even when you were ready to go to bed.
21:34There was no cell phone usage.
21:36You were not allowed to leave the house.
21:38No windows were allowed to be opened.
21:41If we didn't follow the rules, we would be punished.
21:44They could take away our books, take away our iPods.
21:46So we would have to sit in silence for hours.
21:51You're squeezing into an apartment with so many girls and only one bathroom's working.
21:57And the rules are we will not film you in the shower or in the toilet stalls.
22:01If there's only one of you, but the second there's two of you, we can film you.
22:06And also you guys should shower together for the environment.
22:12You're almost an animal for spectator sport.
22:16Versus a human being, felt like it was an experiment to see how easy we could crack and break.
22:25For the most part on my season, the producers just wanted to instigate conflict.
22:30But the photo shoot in Africa was something else.
22:35You're going to be dancing with three hot guys.
22:40What a lot of people didn't see was that like behind the scenes,
22:44the male model Bertini was actually hardcore flirting with me,
22:50telling me that he was going to come to the States and find me.
22:54And he wanted to be with me.
22:56And it was, it was just a lot.
22:57You give me that side.
22:58Sorry, I got to go right in the wardrobe after this.
23:01This is so cringe to watch.
23:03I got to break this out.
23:07He was like grunting as he was dancing with me.
23:09And he stood a lot closer to me than the other models.
23:12He had on this tiny little loincloth fabric.
23:17And then it just got to the point where I realized that he actually had an erection.
23:21And what's the issue?
23:22I know it's not about feeling comfortable, but here I'm moaning and it just threw me off.
23:28Moaning where?
23:29Like on me.
23:30Like, I'm sorry.
23:30I just didn't feel comfortable.
23:32It was flipped into me being a bit of a diva.
23:37We're here in a professional situation.
23:39There are like 50 of us sitting here on set.
23:41Right, right.
23:41When your space is invaded and you're put in a tough situation, it almost feels even more sinister to be
23:58in front of everyone.
23:59I really thought that I would be applauded for speaking up for myself.
24:07What's even crazier to me about that scenario is that it's not a real job.
24:12Kenya wasn't a girl who had to get the job done so that she can pay her bills next week.
24:18This was a fake shoot on a fake show.
24:23And there are people in charge who can do something about it.
24:26There has to be a way that you can handle it.
24:28You know, you have to be able to be in control.
24:31Like with your feminine wiles, like, boy, you best to back up front and knock you upside the head.
24:34You do it in a fun way where he knows to back the heck up, but it doesn't really hit
24:40static in the air because then it makes you uncomfortable.
24:42Tyra Banks reprimanded you for not handling real sexual harassment on a fake shoot.
24:49You have to wonder what Tyra went through to think that that's the way you handle a situation like that.
24:55But then my empathy has to go out the window because you visited upon that girl something that was probably
25:01traumatic to you.
25:05It's just so interesting, like, watching it back to little Kenya because Tyra's a grown woman at this time.
25:12I was 19 years old and it should have never unfolded that way.
25:22Moments like what Jada endured are particularly frustrating because ultimately what you're doing is a little bit of a humiliation
25:30ritual.
25:30Do you think, oh my God, okay, I say I don't like it.
25:34Jada's partner Nacho tells Jada that he doesn't even like black girls.
25:38That man just is like, I don't want to kiss her, I don't really like black girls.
25:41Again, a fake shoot with a real racist in a fake scenario that you all created.
25:52Well, you're going to have to give him a kiss to make him love some black girls because what do
25:56they say?
25:57Once they go black.
25:58They don't go back.
25:59There you go.
26:01Jada, you can't cry because we don't have time to fix your makeup.
26:04I can't do this.
26:06She expressed her discomfort over and over and over again and they made her do this fake commercial with a
26:17real racist.
26:18You told me that this is the guy that said that he didn't want to kiss a black girl.
26:21He doesn't like black girls.
26:23Oh, he's just an extra.
26:25That should not have stopped her from doing the job that she was sent there to do.
26:30At what point do you get to put your hands up and say enough is enough?
26:42I can actually believe that Tyra thinks that representation feels important.
26:47I want to be out like I'm gay and I'm really proud of it.
26:52But in the wrong hands, is representation enough?
26:56It absolutely is not.
26:57I think there's a certain thing of being proud.
26:59Like, I'm black and proud, you know what I mean?
27:00But I'm not like walking on the red carpet, I'm black.
27:02Yeah, I'm black.
27:04One of the things that queer phobia kind of generates is this idea of a looming predator.
27:09I can't be safe around you because you are attracted to my gender.
27:12Therefore, anything you do is automatically sexual.
27:15Can you think I'm beautiful?
27:17Yeah.
27:20It becomes, again, this contradictory message in which it's we want to support queer inclusivity,
27:25but we also need to somehow make a spectacle of it at the same time.
27:31In those early days, you couldn't find lesbians anywhere on television outside of Ellen,
27:36and you certainly couldn't find a black lesbian.
27:38We know you're a lesbian.
27:39How do you feel about expressing that on national television?
27:43People never assume I'm gay.
27:45I felt my sexuality.
27:47It was something between me and everybody that was producing the project.
27:50But Tyra Banks choosing to say that I was gay and putting that out there without talking to me first,
27:55I was floored.
27:57We're talking the 90s, 2000s.
27:58What do you think about that time?
28:02Being openly homosexual was actively exposing yourself to danger.
28:06I just wondered, what did she think was going to happen to me afterwards?
28:10I would get random calls from churches telling me to come back to the Lord.
28:16I didn't understand how churches got my number.
28:19If you were to ask Tyra, I'm sure she would say, well, I gave you a platform.
28:23But a platform, it's not safety.
28:27It's scrutiny.
28:28It's surveillance.
28:29It's inviting millions of people to have judgments on how you live your life.
28:34One of the first representations of a trans woman on television was on top model.
28:41But the other girls weren't very nice to Isis.
28:44Growing up in the South, you don't exactly run into a he-she every day.
28:48You walk around like that in a small town, you were shot.
28:51The transphobia is harder to swallow than some of the other stuff because there wasn't really any other trans representation
28:58on the show.
28:59And so it really does feel like Isis is being picked on.
29:03I think Tyra's belief is I should get a pat on the back simply for the idea of acknowledging that
29:10a trans person exists and is worth talking to.
29:14But if you are someone with visible, marginal identities, there's little reward in being the primary person to break a
29:21boundary.
29:22You're the person who gets all the backlash.
29:25She actually used to be he and I think still is.
29:30Tyra wasn't trying to help these girls.
29:33They were trying to create a great TV show.
29:38I think in the first couple seasons, it tried to take itself a little bit seriously and then it just
29:43got like wacky.
29:45These are giant Madagascar hissing cockroaches.
29:48Oh, he's going crazy.
29:50We were put through things that would never happen in real life.
29:52So girls are going to be shooting with a bull.
30:00Listen, I think there is some thrill in watching pretty people be tortured.
30:05These girls have to be prepared to do almost anything to sell a garment.
30:10I'm freaking bleeding.
30:15America's next top model is also a social experiment.
30:18What people are willing to do for fame, what they're willing to endure to get it.
30:23You find out what someone's fear is and then you find a way to exploit it on television.
30:27If you find out the girl is afraid of spiders, guess what she's going to be doing?
30:32I'm definitely afraid.
30:34A photo shoot with spiders.
30:36She's cold.
30:37Really?
30:38Can I get a tissue for her, please?
30:40They made these models work with snakes.
30:44Take rest.
30:45Take rest.
30:46See how it's going to be.
30:47Okay, David.
30:48Heights.
30:49Do you want to come up, Katie?
30:50Give me a second.
30:51Okay.
30:51Dangling over a pit probably was more of a liability than an actual shot for a magazine.
31:00But I thought, there's a modeling contract eventually that you're going to be able to have.
31:04Just go for it.
31:07There were a lot of things done in Top Model that they got wrong.
31:16And one challenge got it very wrong.
31:19I think Hulu banned this one now.
31:22Someone should have refused to do that and yet no one did.
31:33The Got Milk Challenge photo shoot was...
31:39Shocking.
31:40Degrading.
31:40It was just stupid.
31:44That episode, there are literally people in blackface on TV in the 2000s.
31:50The challenge here really is taking on the persona of that other ethnicity.
31:57Everyone seems kind of like, okay, girl, I guess I'll do this because I'd like to win the show.
32:02But I remember watching that as it was airing and being like, I don't know, man.
32:07This doesn't seem...
32:08I don't think we should be doing this.
32:12Michelle?
32:12Yeah.
32:13An Eskimo woman.
32:14Kenya, Korean.
32:16Hey, hey.
32:16Brittany, an African-American woman.
32:19I think Tyra thinks that she's introduced a conversation about us all being one and what are the things that
32:24bring us together versus bring us apart.
32:26But instead, it's like a caricature of existing racist tropes.
32:30It should be noted that so many of the creatives working on Top Model were people of color.
32:38Tyra, a black woman.
32:40Ken Mock, an Asian man.
32:43They knew what they were doing was edgy.
32:48But they viewed it as edgy and not wrong.
32:53At the time, because Tyra Banks is an African-American woman and she's wanting me to become, to transport me
33:00into an African-American woman, I truly didn't see anything of it.
33:04None of us did.
33:05And whatever Tyra says us to do, we do.
33:07No one wants to go home.
33:09As a 19-year-old, you don't really have the courage at that time to say, hey, this is, you
33:17know, isn't politically correct or, you know, whatever you may feel.
33:20Because there was a potential for you to go home and for this whole dream and opportunity to just be
33:25over.
33:26Tyra had the ability to make or break you.
33:29We're all scared of Tyra.
33:32I think that the race swap challenges that the show did a couple of times in some ways have become
33:38a little bit of a scapegoat so that contemporary reality television doesn't have to grapple with its own issues of
33:43racism.
33:45It's not so much that the race swap itself as a challenge was inherently offensive, although it's, like, it's offensive.
33:51The worst thing about that challenge was the judging panel and the ways that they seem to understand racial identity
33:59such that it's a thing that can be authentically performed.
34:05Britney, sister, you look like a black girl, girl.
34:08I was feeling it.
34:10Oh, I loved it.
34:12What's one thing if you take a young white woman and put some dark makeup on her in an Afro
34:17wig, it's another thing to say you need to embody blackness and celebrate her for, you know, I don't know,
34:24just sort of acting like she has an attitude.
34:26You realize the show wants to celebrate blackness, but only a very limited idea of what blackness can be.
34:34That's a ghetto walk.
34:36If she took a little bit of hoochie out of that ghetto walk, that would have been Naomi.
34:39Tyra seemed weirdly obsessed with and repulsed by all things ghetto, like obvious markers of, like, lower middle class, lower
34:50class black people.
34:52But then Tyra always went off her way to cast women who were coded in that way.
34:59Do you really think you can have a cover girl contract with the gap in your mouth?
35:02Yeah, why not?
35:03This is all people see.
35:04Easy reads beautiful cover girl.
35:06It's not marketable.
35:07I remember feeling really uncomfortable by this idea that Dani's gap needed to be fixed.
35:13The show seemed to be equating her gap with a particular type of blackness that was undesirable within that industry.
35:22Being unapologetically working class and black at the same time, it prohibits you from being able to be viewed as
35:28relatable.
35:29So as a result, you're going to be consistently punished for being a product of your own circumstances.
35:35Chelsea, we love your teeth.
35:37We'd love to exaggerate that and take you a little bit more to Lauren.
35:42And then to try to expand this white girl's teeth on camera is not a contradiction that feels out of
35:51place at all with Tyra.
35:58Tyra Banks, as a black woman, there are many things that she did that she knew better.
36:03With your skin texture, being an African-American woman, it should be like butter.
36:08At the retouching session, your photo was the hardest that we had to do.
36:12There's no way that I believe that it's lost on Tyra how offensive and hurtful it is to call a
36:17black woman, especially a dark-skinned one, ashy.
36:20When she said my skin texture was too rough, she knew my skin texture wasn't too rough.
36:23She knew what she was doing.
36:27As a black woman in high fashion, I'm sure, Tyra was made to feel ghetto, lower class, inferior.
36:36And so I can imagine that has a lot to do with her obsession with black presentation in different spaces.
36:44But the thing is, your job is to get therapy, not 20 years of abusive television.
36:52Those girls didn't deserve that.
37:03The media really had a field day with this idea of Tyra Banks and Naomi Campbell beefing behind the scenes.
37:09For years, supermodel Tyra Banks was in the middle of a bitter feud with another top model, Naomi Campbell.
37:18Tyra felt like she was bullied by Naomi Campbell, that there wasn't room for two black girls in the industry.
37:24I think I've been a serious victim of pitting one black model against another.
37:29My mom would look at fashion magazines.
37:31It's just Iman.
37:32That's all you saw.
37:33And then it was just Beverly Johnson.
37:35And then it was just Naomi Campbell.
37:37Do you remember that Times article?
37:40BeyoncƩ's first solo effort is good, but she's no Ashanti.
37:45That's what this is.
37:47It's not just Tyra who makes a marginalized community feel like there can only be one.
37:54It really made me angry.
37:56As I'm saying, in order for me to be successful, I have to knock someone out.
37:59So that means when I get really up there, that somebody's going to come and knock me out.
38:02I think she really did feel like she was sort of competing with Naomi.
38:06When you're presented as the other person's replacement, maybe you do get mean, and maybe you do get jealous, and
38:13maybe you do get catty.
38:15But I think Tyra's been working out her Naomi rivalry with every black woman she's come across in the 30
38:22years since.
38:23I don't even think Tyra really wants any of us to become stars.
38:27Tyra didn't want any competition.
38:30Tyra was breaking the girls down so she could feel better about herself.
38:34She went off on one girl that was so frightening that I was going to get up and, like, hold
38:41her down.
38:42Be quiet, Tiffany. Be quiet!
38:45That's what is wrong with you.
38:46Stop it!
38:47I have never in my life yelled at a girl like this.
38:50When my mother yells at this, it's because she loves me.
38:53I was rooting for you. We were all rooting for you.
38:57All of us were standing there like...
38:59It did not feel like a mother yelling at her daughter.
39:03It just felt like someone just yelling at someone kicking a dog when they're down.
39:07She would go harder on the black girls on the show because it's about competitiveness and jealousy.
39:20And she being older than these young models.
39:23You take responsibility for yourself because nobody's going to take responsibility for you.
39:29If that's Mama Tyra, then they need to come take me away.
39:33Child services needs to take us.
39:35You roll in your eyes and you act like this because you've heard it all before.
39:38You've heard it all before. You don't know where the hell I come from.
39:41You have no idea what I've been through.
39:43But I'm not a victim. I grow from it and I learn.
39:45She was always trying to be this tough teen mom to the girls.
39:50But she just did not build up enough confidence in the girls.
39:54They left the show completely depressed and depleted while she got so effing rich.
40:00Snore. Snore.
40:03Is Tyra a narcissist?
40:07I ain't a doctor, but yes.
40:11Narcissist, high ego, low self-esteem.
40:14Low self-esteem just oozes out of her.
40:18Paulina Porticova says that you lack respect for the co-judges.
40:22Janice Dickinson said that you were righteous.
40:24I mean, why do you think both of them had such negative things to say about their experience?
40:27I don't know. Why do you think?
40:30It wasn't there.
40:31You just want to go there.
40:34Why do you think?
40:35I don't know.
40:36Jealous? Is that what you're saying?
40:38What, masking you? You said it. I didn't say that word. You said it.
40:44America's Next Top Model really tortured these girls for Tyra Banks' ego.
40:51She put the girls down for everything.
40:53The hairstyles, the way they walk, the way they hold their face.
40:57It really tore their ego and identity.
41:01I was there and I saw it.
41:04For four seasons, she was a hardcore bitch.
41:1245 different countries worldwide had their own version of Top Model.
41:18Tyra Banks became a mogul.
41:20A lot of people might have assumed that we were paid to be on that show.
41:23We were given $37 a day to buy our food.
41:26I left the show broker than I'd ever been in my life.
41:28Tyra doesn't have that empathy.
41:31She has blind ambition.
41:32In the all-star cycle, they brought back all of these returning contestants.
41:37I went back for revenge. I went back for redemption.
41:40But they kept us in the vans with paper bags over our heads.
41:43I won this show and they were like, we can't air you as the winner because you were engaging in
41:49sex work.
41:50She was set up from the very beginning to be the one that's disqualified at the end.
41:55They were really good at casting someone who was struggling with something.
41:59Alway accused of breaking into people's homes and cars.
42:03I had never shaved my head like that before.
42:04I felt so small.
42:06And my dream was right there.
42:08It was like almost, almost, almost.
42:10And then you just take my away from me.
42:13How are you any different from a pimp selling dreams?
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