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Catching Up With the Royals - Season 1 Episode 10
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00:00Hello and welcome to Catching Up With The Royals, the show that never complains, but always
00:05explains.
00:06In today's episode, we're going to be answering more of your questions, from Queen Elizabeth's
00:11favouritism within the firm to the lessons Prince Harry could have learnt from previous
00:15spares.
00:15I would literally get pushed out of the way because I wanted to be interested in him.
00:19And of course it didn't matter, but you know, it really did matter.
00:23Sibling rivalry, you know, that could be tricky.
00:25When Harry and Meghan get the wrong end of the stick, things can get a bit nasty.
00:28Plus, we'll be taking a look into the property portfolios of the royal family and asking
00:34if it's time they ended their grace and favour agreements.
00:37Do the royals pay for them out of their own funds?
00:42No.
00:43Is it entirely appropriate that you should live in that sort of style?
00:47And we'll be sharing our predictions on the changes Prince William may be making when he
00:52becomes monarch.
00:53If I'm a Prince William and I think about how can we slim this down, how can we make this
00:56just more acceptable?
00:57One thing would be probably getting rid of all that stuff.
01:00I don't feel he's really answered the question.
01:08Welcome back to Catching Up With The Royals with me, Emily Andrews.
01:12Hello.
01:13And my lovely co-host, Richard.
01:15You've been brilliant sending us so many of your questions.
01:18And if you have any more burning questions, please do email us at royals at spirit-studios.com.
01:27Without further ado, Richard, shall we get into them?
01:30I mean, they've been coming in thick and fast.
01:33Richard, we're going to adopt the Prince Harry position and we're going to talk about spares
01:38now.
01:39So I think we might probably have to inevitably talk about Prince Harry, but I think we should
01:43also look at other spares in the royal family.
01:46And we've got a couple of questions and the first of which is from Evelyn.
01:50She says, all this talk about the spare, I'm assuming she means as of Prince Harry or Prince
01:56Andrew.
01:57She said, Princess Margaret was the spare to her sister, Queen Elizabeth, but we didn't
02:01get all this jealousy between the sisters that we know of.
02:04In fact, Margaret seemed to enjoy the freedom as the spare.
02:08Harry should have just enjoyed his freedom rather than be jealous of his brother.
02:11What do you think?
02:12Well, I'll do Liz's question as well.
02:14We'll throw that into the mix.
02:15Go on then.
02:16Liz says, I'd like to put in a word of appreciation for the Princess Royal, Anne.
02:20It's often overlooked that she grew up as spare to a spare to a spare, being pushed down the
02:25line of succession after Charles, then Andrew, and then Edward, but never voicing self-pity.
02:29She just got on with it, has carved out a very successful path in life for herself.
02:34So I suppose when we're thinking about spares, can you ever escape your destiny?
02:41Famously, obviously, George VI never thought that he would be king.
02:45He was because his brother, because of the abdication.
02:48He wanted to be a spare.
02:49He wanted to be.
02:50He didn't want to be king.
02:51He wanted to be a spare.
02:52And I don't think he wanted his daughters necessarily to be monarch and spare.
02:56I think it's the only way to do spare is to be reconciled to the notion that you're
03:02a spare and to realise that that's probably good for you in lots of ways.
03:05I think where it's tough is this, if you, I imagine if you were like two brothers, roughly,
03:11you know, maybe two years apart in age, and you grow up, and then all of a sudden the realisation
03:14comes that one of them is special in a way that the other one isn't.
03:18And bearing in mind developmental stuff and the way kids are, the way boys are, the way
03:23brothers are, sibling rivalry, you know, that could be tricky.
03:26I think there's a couple of things here, aren't there?
03:28Because as you say, most families have sibling rivalry.
03:30I mean, there's been so many studies done by neurologists and paediatricians that where
03:35you're born within a family affects your personality, it affects your future prospects.
03:42Where are you?
03:43Take a guess.
03:44Middle child.
03:45No.
03:46Oldest child.
03:47No, I'm the eldest.
03:48Well, there's two of us, so I'm the elder.
03:50Okay, I'm going to guess for you, I think you're middle.
03:55Exactly right.
03:56Yeah.
03:58What does that mean, if you're middle?
04:00Nobody knows our pain.
04:01Oh.
04:02Nobody knows our pain.
04:03I think it did make me sort of, I don't know, my older brother kind of, he forged a way
04:10ahead
04:10and everything, and I felt that that was, I had to follow.
04:13And then I thought, no, I mustn't follow, I must do my own thing.
04:16So yeah, it's a hugely formative thing.
04:18I think where you are in the pecking order does.
04:19I mean, obviously I as the elder was like people, parent pleaser, massive wannabe overachiever.
04:25We'll see whether I am an overachiever or not in another 40 years time.
04:29But where you are, and so I guess, and it must be superannuated when you're born into
04:34a dynasty, a Murdoch, a Windsor, you know, whatever the surname, there are pressures, aren't
04:41there?
04:41And I wonder, you know, I remember being in Chile with Prince Harry, I think this probably
04:47was about 2014, Prince Harry and I were chatting and he said, you know, Emily, the thing is,
04:54I've got 10 years.
04:56I was like, oh my, oh my goodness, have I got a really good scoop here.
04:59It's Prince Harry telling me something awful.
05:02I said, well, what do you mean?
05:04And he said, well, you know, every, every morning I kind of wake up and think, what can
05:07I do?
05:07You know, how can, how can I make things better?
05:09How can I help people?
05:10Well, but I've only got 10 more years because, um, he said, once George grows up, um, in 10
05:15more, in 10 years or whatever, everyone will be interested in George and they won't be interested
05:18in me anymore.
05:19And it wasn't a me ego.
05:22Not self-pitying.
05:22No, it wasn't self-pitying or ego me.
05:24It was more my platform and what I can do and the light I can shine.
05:30I mean, it was just before it was like probably about six months before he launched the first
05:34Invictus Games.
05:35And, and I, my reading of what, of our chat was that that's kind of what he was thinking
05:40and he wanted to set up.
05:41What's my role?
05:42Yeah.
05:42What's my role?
05:43And I did wonder whether he was trying to prove to himself as much as to his father, to
05:50his grandmother, to the wider world, just as much to himself, try and find a role.
05:56Because obviously his brother's role had always been set and defined.
06:01I was, um, in back, when I was in a pop band, there was me and a singer, a duo,
06:05right?
06:05A brilliantly talented, amazing singer.
06:08Everybody was fascinated with him.
06:10Everybody would want to know him.
06:11I would literally get pushed out of the way because wanted to be interested in him.
06:14And of course it didn't matter, but you know, it really did matter.
06:19If you stand next to someone who sucks up all the attention, the light and the air, unless
06:23you're a very robust personality, I think it's hard not to wilt in that.
06:27And I do understand it.
06:28Sometimes I found that immensely frustrating.
06:30Not so much now, I'm a bit older now.
06:32And also, uh, actually playing second fiddle is not a bad place to be.
06:38Well, this is the thing.
06:38And I, I mean, looking at someone like Princess Anne, I mean, she is venerated now, but I think
06:42age is on her side.
06:44But I mean, Princess Anne, perhaps it helped that she knew that she never would be monarch
06:50because, I mean, she's, I often think she's the, she's the best queen we never had, Princess
06:54Anne.
06:55But obviously because of the rules of, um, sort of male primogenitor, it meant that even
07:01when her older brother, Charles and her older brother, Andrew, and her younger brother, Edward
07:06started having children, they would, all of those children and those children's children
07:09would be above her in the line of succession.
07:12She knew that.
07:12So that probably gave her freedom to do things, to always, to know that she would always be
07:19the spare.
07:20And maybe because she was the only woman, she was the only daughter of the Queen and Prince
07:24Philip and, you know, arguably Philip's favourite, um, because the two were quite similar.
07:30And also she was a very successful sports person in her own right.
07:33And I do actually wonder for her and for Zara, because those two women seem very secure.
07:38I mean, look, Zara's a non-working royal, as we know.
07:40But because those two women have achieved outside the royal family, they've got something, you
07:47know, literally shiny.
07:48They've got medals.
07:49In Zara's case, Olympic medals.
07:51Because they've got this huge achievement that they've competed with everybody else,
07:56it doesn't matter the fact they were royal.
07:57I wonder whether that gives them more confidence.
08:01And I, so I wondered kind of with, with Harry, I mean, yeah, maybe you should have, I always
08:07thought Harry should have stayed in the army.
08:10What's the, what's the good thing about being the spare?
08:12You don't have all that expectation upon you.
08:14There's more room for your life to grow, perhaps in a different kind of way.
08:17You could get something out of that.
08:19Well, as Evelyn says, you get your freedom.
08:21And isn't that a good thing?
08:23And when we look at kind of the queen, sorry, the late queen, Queen Elizabeth, and her sister,
08:28Princess Margaret, I mean, obviously both those girls, when they were first born, they
08:33were the nieces, well, the granddaughters, and then the nieces of the monarch.
08:38And so they never assumed ever, I think, that either of them would be in line to the throne.
08:45Obviously, their father was, was, became king, and then Elizabeth became heir.
08:49I mean, it must have been quite difficult for Margaret, particularly when, of course,
08:53it was her sister who decided who she could and couldn't marry.
08:57I mean, she infamously said that she couldn't marry group captain Peter Townsend.
09:02But I've always thought that actually, Elizabeth was smarter than that, and didn't sort of forbade
09:08it, but just said, if you're going to marry him as a divorcee, this is what you're going
09:13to have to give up.
09:13You're going to have to give up your security, your money, potentially your titles to become
09:17Mrs. Peter Townsend.
09:19Do you really want that?
09:20And Margaret was like, no, thank you.
09:23You can email us at royals at spirit-studios.com.
09:28And don't forget, you can catch us every Thursday, wherever you get your podcasts, on Instagram,
09:34on Facebook, we're on YouTube, and Richard.
09:38Yes.
09:39We're on five.
09:40You're all over it.
09:41And just before we go to the break, a question for you.
09:45When did Queen Elizabeth change the law that would affect the royal family's line of succession
09:51and why?
09:53Don't tell me.
09:55We'll be back after the break.
10:00Welcome back.
10:01Now, once again, it's Richard's chance to shine because I asked you, I mean, I love Richard
10:08and of course he always shines, but he is also a polymath and knows a huge amount and he
10:14will know the answer to the question of when Queen Elizabeth changed the line of succession,
10:19but do you know why?
10:20I don't know when, I know roughly when, but do you know why?
10:24Tell me why.
10:24And it was changed the line of succession so that a girl can inherit on equal terms with
10:27a boy.
10:28Absolutely.
10:29And I suppose it was with the birth of Princess Charlotte, was it?
10:32I'm not sure.
10:32It was with the Duchess of Cambridge's first pregnancy.
10:36Right.
10:36So when she was pregnant before the birth of Prince George in 2013, so no one knew, she
10:43and William didn't find out what the gender of the baby was and the Queen had to get agreement
10:48with all the 14 other realms to end primogeniture, which favoured boys.
10:54And the succession to the Crown Act modernised the British Royal Succession by introducing
10:59absolute primogeniture as opposed to just male primogeniture, meaning birth order to term
11:05in succession, regardless of gender.
11:07So it ended the rule where younger sons displaced elder daughters.
11:11I'm quite right too.
11:12I wonder if aristocrats who are in a similar sort of business of, you know, dynastic succession,
11:18one of the same rule might apply to them or you have to?
11:21I have a feeling that at the moment it's, it's the old fashioned rules in inverted commas
11:27still apply.
11:28So you'd have to change it.
11:29So it would have to be changed.
11:30And even if you have, say, five daughters and then your sixth child is a son, that son inherits
11:35everything.
11:35Hey aristocrats, here's something you can do.
11:37A little blow for equality, about time.
11:39Got one from Christine.
11:41Can I give Christine a curtsy?
11:43Quick.
11:43Quick curtsy.
11:44This one's a good seated curtsy.
11:45That is a skill.
11:46Yeah, quick curtsy.
11:47Christine says, I enjoy your insights on royal matters and wonder what your thoughts are
11:51about Harry and Meghan's inclusion on the royal website.
11:55It gives the appearance that they're still working members of the royal family.
11:58And after the controversy surrounding their Jordanian trip, I doubt that the rest of the family
12:02are too happy with being associated with it, particularly at this time.
12:06Should Harry and Meghan be labelled as non-working royals or even removed entirely, as has happened
12:12with Andrew and the Duchess of Kent following her passing?
12:15Do you think that's the list you should get knocked off?
12:17Oh, great question, Christine.
12:19And thanks so much, because just before we recorded today, Richard and I had a quick look
12:25at the royal family's website and you're absolutely, well, of course, you're absolutely right.
12:28But what's so interesting is that on the page about the royal family, it literally is in order
12:35of succession, so in precedence, so the king, the queen, the prince and princess of Wales.
12:39You're absolutely right.
12:40The Duchess of Kent has been removed since her death from last year.
12:43And then after the Duke and Duchess of Gloucester, the next, the bottom people are Harry and Meghan,
12:50the Duke and Duchess of Sussex.
12:51And it makes no differentiation between the Duke and Duchess of Sussex as non-working royals
12:57and the rest of the royals above them.
12:59Do you think it's actually about the line of succession?
13:01That's what it's reflecting, because Prince Harry is still, he's quite high up, isn't he?
13:07He is.
13:07He's behind Prince Louis.
13:09So William is first, and then you've got the three Wales children.
13:13So Prince Harry is fifth, and then Archie is sixth, and Lilibet is seventh.
13:17Prince Andrew is eighth, but he is obviously not on the royal family's website.
13:23To answer your question, Christine, yes, I think Harry and Meghan should be removed from
13:27the same page as the rest of the working royals.
13:30And I think it should be more clearly differentiated working royals and non-working royals on the
13:36website.
13:37And then on the non-working royals, you could have Eugenia Beatrice, Mike, Tyndall and Zara,
13:42members of the family, but not working royals.
13:45Would that make any difference, do you think?
13:47What is this website for?
13:48Is it a sort of who we are kind of thing?
13:51Or is it a sort of more like, I don't know, kind of hello sort of thing?
13:57I think it's probably a bit of, I mean, it's PR, isn't it?
13:59It's a bit of both.
14:00I mean, at the end of the day, the royal family are funded by the taxpayer.
14:04So I think it has to give quite a lot of, you know, information.
14:09This is what you're paying for.
14:09Exactly.
14:10This is what you're paying for.
14:11Lovely pictures of us.
14:12And in Harry and Meghan's case, lovely pictures of us on Bondi Beach when they were still working
14:17royals.
14:18That's their picture on the royal family website.
14:20And so I think that it's important that there is as much information as, and it is what
14:26they want to tell us, as we've discussed before.
14:28I think it's very important that there's a website and it describes what they do and
14:32who they are.
14:33But when I come to write about them or when I come to, you know, some of the magazines
14:37that I write for, the royals that people want to read about and know about often are the
14:44non-working royals, like Mike and Zara.
14:46Oh, right.
14:47Or Harry and Meghan.
14:48Or Harry and Meghan.
14:49But I wonder whether this has been done just to kind of keep Harry and Meghan sweet.
14:54And what do you think, Richard?
14:55Not offend them?
14:56I don't know.
14:57I suppose there's a lot to be said for not offending people unnecessarily.
15:01I don't know.
15:02And also, perhaps it's a way maybe of keeping the door open.
15:05Or perhaps there's a courtier in charge of the website who's forgotten his password and
15:09can't get in and change it.
15:11Well, yes, passwords.
15:12I mean, we're not, neither your eye are very good with those, aren't we?
15:15Not really, really.
15:16I mean, we're all writing them down on bits of paper so we don't forget.
15:17Actually, the royal family's website has always been a bit of bone of contention because other
15:22members of the family do look at it.
15:24And I mean, infamously, when Charles became king, Harry wanted Archie and Lilibet, Prince
15:30Archie and Princess Lilibet, to be listed on the website.
15:35And the courtiers who are in charge of it, the comms department, often the website lags
15:40behind real-time events, certainly did with Megxit, with Harry and Meghan leaving, because
15:44everyone was so terrified about what to put on the website for fear of offending Harry
15:49and Meghan.
15:49They were in a state of paralysis.
15:50And I think that what happened when Harry and Meghan stepped back is partly to explain
15:55why they're still on the website.
15:57When, in March 2020, under the terms of the Megxit and Sandringham summit deal, there was
16:03a year's grace given to Harry and Meghan as a way back in.
16:07And actually, Queen Elizabeth...
16:08It was sensible.
16:08Yeah, Queen Elizabeth wanted them to come back.
16:10It was, you know, let you go for a year, but we'll review it.
16:13And then in January 2021, it became, I mean, basically Harry and Meghan told the royal family
16:19that they were never coming back.
16:20So, and then they did Oprah in March 2021, just before Prince Philip died.
16:27And so I think that made it perfectly clear.
16:29But even so, as I understand it, as I've been told by courtiers, there's always been this
16:36reluctance to ever publicly criticise Harry and Meghan because they are...
16:40I mean, look, courtiers have said to me, Emily, what you need to understand is they
16:43are very touchy.
16:44They are very sensitive.
16:45They're thin-skinned.
16:46I mean, aren't we all, some would say.
16:48But there was a real sense that they didn't want to unnecessarily antagonise or upset
16:54them.
16:54Because as we have seen, when Harry and Meghan get the wrong end of the stick, things can
16:59get a bit nasty.
17:00Remember when Harry said that he'd asked his grandmother's permission to give her...
17:05her pet nickname to his daughter, Lilibet.
17:09And then the Queen was very much not amused because the conversation that she had with
17:13her grandson, she didn't remember.
17:15Her recollection wasn't that Harry had asked permission to use her pet name that her father
17:20had given her.
17:21He just basically told her he was doing it.
17:23And so she authorised her director of communications as a bit of a backslap to Harry and to say,
17:28no, this was not what happened.
17:30I wonder if there's also a kind of conflict here in a way, because on the one hand,
17:35Meghan and Harry want to distance themselves from the royal family and no longer do that
17:37kind of thing.
17:38But on the other hand, they seem to want to retain something.
17:42So they retain their royal titles and they're anxious that their children should be known
17:45as prince and princess.
17:47So maybe it's a bit more complicated than it appears to be.
17:50And I think probably keeping them on...
17:52I mean, it's an easy thing for the royal family to do, right?
17:54Isn't it?
17:55Just to keep them on the website.
17:56It's a bit of a sop to them.
17:58And it's very interesting.
17:59We've seen time and time again, Meghan in particular, be very protective of her Sussex
18:05surname.
18:06Now, her surname is not Sussex, I would argue.
18:10Her Sussex is Mountbatten-Windsor, which is Harry's surname, which is Archie's surname.
18:14I mean, Harry was at pains to tell us, tell us, the reporters, that when Archie was born,
18:19that would be his surname.
18:21First, though.
18:22I mean, imagine having that as your email address.
18:25You'd definitely forget your password for that one, wouldn't you?
18:28Keep it to Wales.
18:29So much better, isn't it?
18:30Yeah.
18:30Or Sussex.
18:31Or Sussex.
18:32Yeah, I mean, so you can...
18:33But I do think that Meghan perhaps wants to keep Sussex, just to remind everyone that
18:38they are still Duke.
18:40But we've seen that Duketoms can be taken away.
18:43We've seen with Prince Andrew, sorry, the man formerly known as Prince Andrew, Andrew
18:47Mountbatten-Windsor, we've seen that Duketoms can be taken away.
18:49And HRHs could be kind of unscrewed, right?
18:53And put in the drawer.
18:54How does that work?
18:56What normally happens is that they're kept, I think the phrase is kept in abeyance.
19:00Right.
19:00So not used.
19:01Not used.
19:02So a real sort of sore point was Diana.
19:05So she was Diana, Princess of Wales, after her divorce from Charles.
19:09And her HRH title, His or Her Royal Highness, was removed.
19:14So she was told not to use it.
19:17Put it in a drawer.
19:18Throw away the key.
19:18Never to be seen again.
19:20Harry and Meghan agreed not to use their HRH titles, His or Her Royal Highness, which is
19:28really the big demarcation between working and non-working royals.
19:31But then, of course, we have seen that Meghan has used hers at least twice.
19:36There was a letter, I think, from either Madam Zelensky, Vladimir Zelensky's wife, or some
19:42high-ranking, I think maybe the Ukrainian prime minister or Ukrainian politician, to address
19:48to Meghan, calling her Your Royal Highness.
19:52And Meghan also used an embossed note with HRH, the Duchess of Sussex, to send a thank you
19:59note in a basket of goodies to one of her friends.
20:01Maybe she won't get mixed up with another Duchess of Sussex.
20:04Well, thank you so much, Christine.
20:05That was a great question.
20:07I'm inferring that after you call it the controversy surrounding the Jordanian trip, you probably
20:12think that Harry and Meghan should be removed.
20:15We've got a question from Mrs. M. Thompson.
20:17Hello, Mrs. Thompson.
20:19She says the Queen had four children.
20:20Why do you think Andrew was her favourite son?
20:23And do you think Charles, Anne and Edward resented him being referred to as this?
20:26I mean, everybody says that, don't they?
20:28That Prince Andrew, as he was, was the Queen's favourite son.
20:31Is there any evidence for that?
20:32Well, Courtesy told me.
20:34They weren't quite so blunt to say, Emily, Prince Andrew.
20:38Here is the list of her favourite children.
20:41Here is the list of favourites.
20:42Numero uno.
20:43Percentage.
20:44Andrew, 100%.
20:46It wasn't quite as blunt as that.
20:48But people said to me that, yeah, so Courtesy, so whether the Queen actually thought that or
20:54not, that's what everyone around her thought.
20:57And I think the evidence for that is quite strong.
21:01And I think the potential reasons for it would, of course, that, you know, Charles was four
21:06and Anne was two when the Queen became monarch.
21:10And then she embarked on a six-month tour, I think, of the Commonwealth with Philip when
21:15her two elder children were very, very young and kind of missed out on the whole kind of mum,
21:22mothering.
21:23And OK, fine, being a mum in the 1950s and 1960s is a bit different, perhaps, to how,
21:29especially in aristocratic, whether it's a bit different to how it is now.
21:32But she really didn't see her children for months on end.
21:36And so then when Andrew, there's a 10-year gap between Anne and Andrew.
21:40Oh, really?
21:41Yeah.
21:41I mean, a 10-year gap is quite interesting because it's really the monarch.
21:45Yeah.
21:46I suspect no one is ever going to have asked the Queen, did you plan that?
21:50Did you plan that?
21:52Can you imagine?
21:52I mean, I'm not, the questions, the thoughts that go through my head, I cannot speak out
21:56loud, even though she is not with us anymore, because it would be inappropriate and very
22:01personal questions.
22:01But maybe she thought, listen, this is the biggest of big jobs.
22:06Because I can't get pregnant and have another child right now, because I really have to
22:12throw myself into this job.
22:16And it was when she was perhaps a little bit, maybe felt a bit, well, I mean, eight years
22:23later, she had Andrew.
22:25And so maybe when she felt a little bit more au fait.
22:28Maybe also, I imagine that you think if you are a monarch and you have a son and that son
22:34is your heir, then you've kind of given them up to that somehow, and maybe you'd feel more
22:39closely bonded with a child who you hadn't had to give up to an institution.
22:42No, and Andrew and Edward were born quite soon after each other, and she was able to
22:47be there a lot more.
22:48I think that when she sent them to school, she sent them very close to school, to Windsor
22:53Castle, so she could see them.
22:55Well, I was told a story once, I was told a story once from a nanny of Prince Andrew and
23:00Prince Edward, and it was clear that the Queen always kind of wanted to see Andrew first when
23:04she went up to the nursery at kind of tea time when the children were kind of suited and booted.
23:08And I think that Edward and Anne did feel a little bit of the lack of kind of maternal
23:18sunlight, and there was a documentary made about five years ago, and I might be reading
23:24too much into it, Richard, but Anne was interviewed about her childhood.
23:28And obviously, you know, Charles was the heir, so he could never be kind of castigated or
23:35told off.
23:35But I think Anne and Edward were kind of, you know, chastised.
23:41And I think Andrew had quite a forceful personality, which actually made him quite popular with his
23:46parents, they thought he was robust and resilient.
23:49The Falklands hero.
23:50The Falklands hero.
23:51So I think actually they quite liked that about Andrew.
23:54Well, dramas, dramas, dramas happening around all these royal residences.
23:57We've got a question.
23:59Oh, on property?
24:00Well, I've got a question for them, first of all.
24:02Oh.
24:02We're talking royal residences next, but I wonder if you know what is the largest palace in
24:09the world.
24:10Back after this.
24:16Welcome back.
24:17Now, if you want to catch up with Catching Up With The Royals, it's so easy to do.
24:20All you need to do is go to wherever you get your podcasts.
24:22You can go to YouTube and you can click and subscribe if you wanted to.
24:27On a Saturday, you can go to Five and you can find us there.
24:30Couldn't be easier.
24:31Anyway, we left you with this question.
24:34What is the largest palace in the world?
24:35Do you know this, Emily?
24:36I don't.
24:37And I was thinking, actually, in the break, is it somewhere in India?
24:40It's not, no.
24:41I just had to check the card then.
24:43I'll tell you where it's, the Forbidden City in Beijing.
24:45No.
24:46Do you want some stats?
24:46I'd love some.
24:47Biggest palace by area, 720,000 square metres, around 980 buildings, contains 9,999 rooms
24:56and was built between 1406 and 1420.
25:00Wow.
25:01That's a big palace, isn't it?
25:02Have you ever visited?
25:03I have, yes.
25:04Have you?
25:04It's the most beautiful place.
25:06Yeah.
25:06I'd love to go.
25:08I've never been.
25:08It's lovely.
25:09It's all, it's done in this kind of scarlet stucco and then it's got this lovely green
25:13glazed chunery bit.
25:14It's beautiful.
25:15And Beijing's a fascinating place.
25:17But listen, palaces is our subject, isn't it?
25:20We've got a question.
25:23Bethany says, I, thank you, Bethany.
25:25And if you've got any more questions, please do email us at royals at spirit-studios.com.
25:32But Bethany says, I would like to know how many grace and favour homes and people the royal
25:38family still fund.
25:39Since King Charles and Prince William have it in mind to whittle down the hangers-on, how
25:43many are still in our the British and Commonwealth taxpayers pay?
25:47Or are they?
25:48Do the royals pay for them out of their own funds nowadays?
25:51So a grace and favour home is effectively cheap, subsidised housing, palaces, apartments.
26:02Accommodation.
26:03Accommodation.
26:05Cheap accommodation in royal palaces or in royal buildings that are leased for 20, 30
26:12years, 50 years, very small rents to working and crucially, Richard, non-working members
26:19of the royal family.
26:20And I think maybe Bethany's asked this question because of Princesses, Beatrice and Eugenie,
26:26because there's been quite a lot of attention recently, hasn't there, on the rent for Royal
26:30Lodge, for example, which was for a very, very long time, journalists like myself tried
26:35to get from the Crown Estate, how much rent Prince Andrew, the man formerly known as Prince
26:40Andrew, was paying and the Crown Estate refused, refused, refused, but lo, last autumn, suddenly
26:45the Crown Estate released how much Andrew was paying and it was a peppercorn if demanded.
26:53It's an old thing.
26:54Basically, you pay a whole load of money sort of up front or in Andrew's case, he paid a
26:59whole load of money to renovate Royal Lodge and that was in lieu of a rent like you and
27:06I would pay every month.
27:08Members of the royal family, members of the family get these grace and favour residences
27:16should the non-working royals still benefit.
27:18A lovely producer, Eleanor, found a list of royal homes and residences that was prepared
27:25actually by the royal family, so it's from the royal family website.
27:28I mean, I'm just going to read you a few of the more esoteric ones, Richard, because obviously
27:32there's Buckingham Palace and Windsor Castle, which are not owned by the royal family, but
27:37are kept their crown, exactly.
27:40There's loads of these places, places that I didn't like, you know, Thatched House Lodge
27:45in Richmond, which I think is where Princess Alexandra lives.
27:48Barnwell Manor in Northamptonshire, now that's where the Prince and Princess Michael live.
27:54No, no, so do you think it's a Gloucester place?
27:56Do you think it's a Gloucester, Barnwell?
27:57Beautiful place.
27:58Yeah, I didn't know that that was owned by the royal family.
28:00I thought that was their private house.
28:02Obviously, there's like, you know, Craig Owen Lodge on the Balmoral Estate, which was where
28:06the Queen always used to go before Balmoral was shut to the public.
28:09Delna Demphe Lodge in Balmoral, there's obviously Highgrove, Birk Hall, Tamarisk in the Ars
28:15of Scilly, obviously the Castle of May.
28:16There's huge amounts of property owned by them.
28:19And if you think about, we've just noted from Sandringham, it's not just the house, but
28:22there's all the houses on the estate, in use by various members of the royal family,
28:26or former members of the royal family, whatever you want to call it.
28:28So, I mean, I suppose, you know, it's a dynasty, they've been around a long time, they've acquired
28:32a lot of real estate at that time, and maybe they see it as something to do with the firm
28:37that you have planned to accommodate officers of the firm, I don't know.
28:41But it is complicated, isn't it?
28:42Because then you wonder, well, how many, if you're not a working royal, is it entirely
28:46appropriate that you should live in that sort of style with that kind of support?
28:51I don't know.
28:51So I guess to answer Bethany's question, do the royals pay for them out of their own
28:57funds?
28:58No.
28:59It's complicated.
29:00Because, for instance, is the king paying rent on Buckingham Palace or Windsor Castle?
29:05No.
29:05No, he's not, because it's owned by the crown.
29:08William and Catherine, they have the Duchy of Cornwall.
29:11There's a manor house in Cornwall that they always stay at, which is owned by the Duchy
29:15of Cornwall.
29:15Are they paying rent on that?
29:16No.
29:17So are they paying rent on Forest Lodge, which is where they are now currently living in
29:24Windsor?
29:24Yes, they are, because it's owned by the crown estate.
29:29Having said that, are Beatrice and Eugenie paying rent for their apartments in St. James's
29:37Palace?
29:38Yes.
29:38But, when these rents are set for Royal Lodge, for the apartments in St. James's Palace, the
29:48way that the rents are set is to look at how much you would be able to charge for the
29:54market
29:55rate.
29:56And because a lot of these properties are within very secure cordons, you can't actually rent
30:02out these properties to that many people.
30:04They'd have to jump through so many security hoops that probably quite a few people who
30:08might be able to afford it might not be able to.
30:11And so, therefore, that means that the ability to rent out a market rate drops, as in their
30:15marketability rate drops, which is, well, that's how it's always been explained to me.
30:20Maybe to justify why members of the family are charged so little, in inverted commas.
30:27And it came a bit common, I knew someone who was in the Royal Household, who was a chaplain
30:31in the Royal Household, and he had an apartment at one of the palaces.
30:35But to play the organ in the chapel there, the organist had to walk through his flat to
30:39get to the organ console.
30:41Oh, really?
30:41So, it was kind of, everyone was sort of just shoved in.
30:44Well, exactly.
30:45So, you wouldn't be able to charge hundreds of thousands of pounds for that flat, would
30:49you?
30:49Some organist is going to walk through your...
30:50Some organist is going to come and walk through your sitting room every time you want to watch
30:53the six o'clock news.
30:54I mean, you're not going to be, I mean, would you be lucky to get a fiver for that?
30:57So, in a way, it's slightly, it's like, it's a bit like bishops and palaces, because why
31:01should a bishop live in a palace?
31:02Well, they tend to live in a flat at the top of the building, because actually they're
31:06workspaces as well as domestic spaces.
31:08Well, it was fascinating to find out that Number 10 Downing Street is a grace and favour
31:14residence.
31:15And, I mean, does the Prime Minister have to pay rent to stay there?
31:18Probably not.
31:18The Prime Minister doesn't live in Number 10 Downing Street, they live over Number 11.
31:21Number 11.
31:22In the flat.
31:23In the flat.
31:23That's because Cameron had, was it, three children, and he swapped with, no, was it
31:28Blair who started that?
31:29I don't remember.
31:30The PM doesn't pay rent.
31:31I mean, if I were Prince William and I would think about how can we slim this down?
31:35How can we make this just more acceptable to contemporary standards?
31:38Well, I think one thing would be probably getting rid of all that stuff.
31:42The notion that Ralph Reynolds is enormous for a plant, and it has all these sort of people
31:47living in grace.
31:47And not just members of the family, but sort of people who work for them, former retainers,
31:51the whole, you know, they used to have the civil list, and I know that they no longer
31:54have that now, but the civil list would pay pensions to people who'd done various services
31:58to the Crown.
32:00I mean, it's huge and it's cumbersome and it feels a bit medieval.
32:02But then I would, and count to that, and to answer Bethany, I would say that a lot of
32:07people who work for the royal family, who work for the Crown, aren't paid very much.
32:14And you're expected to be on call, depends what job you're doing, but say you're the
32:18Queen's hairdresser, or you're the King's, you know, harpist because he loves harp music,
32:23or you're, you know, whatever, you're the King's private secretary.
32:26You are on call all the time.
32:28You're not paid a commercial salary, but what you do get is you get an apartment in St.
32:35James's or Buckingham Palace or a muse house in Kensington Palace, and, which is quite cool,
32:41but also it's so that you can be living very close to your principal, so that you're needed.
32:46Yeah, I suppose my view would be that if you did slim it down, and I think there's a very
32:49strong case for slimming it down now, then you would slim it down proportionately.
32:53So there would be fewer people in, I don't know, Hampton Court Palace or something.
32:56It would be Lena in all regards.
32:59But then let's say, let's say we, let's say...
33:01You wouldn't need as big a staff, would you?
33:03But let's say that Beatrice and Eugenie, I don't want to single them out too much,
33:08because, I mean, I don't think Peter Phillips or...
33:10Princess Anson.
33:11Zara, Princess Anson, or Zara Tindall, they don't have grace and favour apartments.
33:17But I bet you my bottom dollar, Richard, that were Peter or Zara to ever want to stay
33:26probably at St James's, of course they could.
33:29Of course they could.
33:30You know, a couple of nights, Tuesday night, Wednesday night.
33:32Uncle Charles, could you put us up on Tuesday?
33:34Yeah, Tuesday night, Wednesday night in central London.
33:36Of course, my dear.
33:37Well, because the other thing to remember is that they are, you know, if the Queen were
33:41to, or the King, rather, were to have a state banquet, well, not everyone's going to go
33:45home afterwards, are they?
33:46I mean, you've got to put people up, you've got to find room.
33:48If the Archbishop of King, I don't know, obviously accommodation must be a thing.
33:53Yeah, and I mean, often there are people for those sort of state banquets or whatever,
33:57people are put up at Buckingham Palace, which at the moment it's being renovated.
34:00And so I've noticed, actually, that recently even investitures are happening at St James's
34:04Palace rather than Buckingham Palace.
34:06Yes, but I kind of think, well, if we did get rid of all these grace and favour residences,
34:12there needs to be income to be paid to keep them looking shiny and for the, you know.
34:19And staff.
34:20And the staff.
34:21These places still need to be looked after and maintained.
34:23Yeah.
34:24And even if the rent is a peppercorn, they still would have paid quite a lot of money up front
34:28to, you know, for the renovations or whatever.
34:30Two years ago, a friend of mine went to stay at Balmoral for connected with that thing.
34:34And he'd never stayed there before.
34:36There was a kind of footman who sort of settled him into his room and everything.
34:40And so he left his bag and went down for a cup of tea with the royal family.
34:43And when he came back, all his stuff had been unpacked and all his loose change had been
34:48put on the table, but in the correct order of value and with the monarch's head all upright.
34:54Upright denominations.
34:55Yeah, it was all just very impeccably done.
34:56I love that.
34:57Well, yeah.
34:58It's classy.
34:59But, you know.
35:00Oh, are you saying that we shouldn't have that?
35:02Are you saying that that's too much?
35:03Are you saying that we don't need all the coin flunkies?
35:06I'm not sure that there's a really powerful case to make for a coin flunky these days.
35:11Oh, I'd love a coin flunky.
35:12You'd like a coin flunky.
35:13I don't love a coin flunky.
35:13When was the last time you actually used cash, Emily?
35:15I'd love a pound flunky.
35:16I'd love a note flunky.
35:18I'd like an internet flunky.
35:21Sadly, no flunkies for us, but.
35:24Question.
35:25Question.
35:26Question.
35:26And actually, I didn't know the answer to this, folks.
35:29So I'd be intrigued as to if anyone else knows.
35:32Richard, I'm going to come to you after the break.
35:34So hold your thoughts.
35:36What do Prince William and Harry Potter have in common?
35:42Richard.
35:43I'm going to have to let Richard breathe during the break.
35:45Otherwise, I'm going to lose my co-host.
35:47Be back in a bit.
35:52Welcome back to Catching Up with the Royals.
35:54And don't forget, you can always catch up with us on Thursdays, wherever you get your podcasts, on YouTube.
36:00Don't forget to subscribe on social media and on Five on Saturdays.
36:05And now, Richard, that question about Prince, what do Prince William and Prince Potter have in common?
36:12Harry Potter.
36:13Is it Quidditch?
36:14Is it Quidditch?
36:15I mean, I'd love to see Prince William on a broomstick, wouldn't you?
36:18Yeah.
36:19Any other guesses?
36:20Not really.
36:21Fancy Hermione?
36:24Emma, what's the chops?
36:25Emma Watson?
36:26Thingamajig.
36:26Thingamajig.
36:27I have no idea.
36:29They both have scars on their forehead, which glow.
36:34Oh.
36:34No, I know.
36:36At age nine, a classmate hit Prince William with a golf club.
36:39I mean, can you imagine if you were the parents of that classmate?
36:42I want to know who that classmate was.
36:44Well, I know.
36:44I'm sure the journalists at the time tracked him down and the poor parents down.
36:48I mean, you'd be mortified, wouldn't you?
36:49Causing a depressed skull fracture.
36:51Oh, my goodness.
36:52That required surgery.
36:53William apparently caused the resulting forehead scar his Harry Potter scar.
36:57Because it glows.
36:58I mean, I suspect this was a Prince William chat with a child, trying to make the child,
37:03trying to, you know, I mean, because I cannot believe.
37:05Make the child feel better.
37:06Make the child feel better, yeah.
37:07Okay, last question for the day, and it's relevant to what we've been talking about.
37:10It's from Julie.
37:11She says, what changes do you think William will make when he becomes king?
37:15Good question.
37:16Good question, Julie.
37:18Because actually, although William has talked quite a lot about this, Richard,
37:24I don't feel he's really answered the question.
37:27About 18 months ago, William started to kind of slightly sort of tell us a little bit more
37:33about what he would do when he becomes monarch.
37:36Because it's slightly delicate, right?
37:38Because it involves the death of his dad.
37:40Yeah.
37:40So, slightly tricksy question, but he said, I'm trying to do it with maybe a smaller R in the Royal.
37:48So, a smaller R, not a capital R for Royal, if you like.
37:52It's more about impact, philanthropy, collaboration, convening and helping people.
37:57And I'm also going to throw empathy in there as well, because I really care about what I do.
38:01It's like being a vicar.
38:02That's literally what vicars do.
38:04Yeah.
38:04Except plus.
38:06Yeah, exactly.
38:06It's like being a national vicar.
38:08But that answer, that to me didn't really answer the question.
38:13Because that's all, isn't that a bit kind of like big ideas kind of answer.
38:16Feel, mood music.
38:17Feel, mood music.
38:18And surely isn't that what every monarch wants to do?
38:20Maybe not like, you know, the Anglo-Saxon monarchs or maybe the monarchs of, you know,
38:24from the Walls of the Roses.
38:26I mean, I think they were more about big R, Royal with a big R and chopping off, you know,
38:29people's heads.
38:30But he's not really saying what he'd do, is he?
38:33No.
38:34But then again, I guess I suppose A, you don't know, and B, you would be constrained anyway.
38:38And it's fluid, isn't it?
38:40So it's when the moment comes.
38:42I would have thought that perhaps trying to make it fit for purpose, that's what you've
38:47got to do.
38:48What's the thing?
38:49You just don't want it to all disappear on your watch, do you?
38:52So you have to really think about what is the role and purpose of this institution?
38:56How does it match with the world?
38:58And how does it continue to have the necessary public support?
39:01Without public support, there's no point.
39:04No.
39:05I mean, I would imagine sort of a little list in my head would be less costumes, less
39:11royals, less titles, slimmed down.
39:16I mean, we've got a very slimmed down family already.
39:18Can we have to lose all the costumes?
39:20Can we keep some of the costumes?
39:22You'd keep Gar today, wouldn't you?
39:24You'd keep the flummery and the frills.
39:25Not the flummery.
39:26I like the dressing up, though.
39:28I like the royal boatmen thing.
39:32They look good.
39:33They look good.
39:34I think the guys on the back of the carriages, they look good.
39:38Footmen, yeah, they look good.
39:39Yeah.
39:40I was actually a bit disappointed that King Charles said at the coronation, no coronets.
39:47Well, I wonder if you've got one.
39:49I suppose you're never going to use it again, are you?
39:51Although who knows what the future portends.
39:53I don't think King William is going to say, bring out your tiaras, bring out your coronets.
39:59Bowing and curtsying and suring, I just think that's over now, really.
40:04I don't think people get deference.
40:05It just seems weird.
40:06And the other one is the whole religion thing.
40:09You know, I think that the Queen was a devout person, the King was a devout person.
40:13I don't see it in William.
40:15I could be wrong, but I don't see it.
40:16And I wonder if that will be a really significant change.
40:19Interestingly, I think since Catherine was diagnosed with cancer and had her chemo, she has become a lot more interested
40:27in faith, I'm told, and a lot more interested in religion.
40:30I mean, I think her parents, Carol and Mike, are kind of, would you say quiet Christians?
40:35Nominal Anglicans or church goers?
40:38Church, because I don't know, they go to a bit like high days and holidays.
40:41They go to church on high days and holidays, Christmas Day, that kind of thing.
40:43But I think Catherine has become more interested in religion and faith and spirituality.
40:50I've always, whenever I've chatted to William, I've never got the impression, not that I have.
40:53Hi, Wills.
40:54Do you believe in God?
40:55Talk to me about Christianity.
40:57I mean, obviously, I've never been quite so disrespectful to anybody to ask that as my starter for 10.
41:03But I never got the impression that William goes to these services, but he doesn't really believe.
41:09Whereas I do get the impression that Catherine's really been exploring that side.
41:14Oh, that's interesting.
41:15Maybe that, because I don't see how you could do it without it, not the way it's done now.
41:18But I've got a question for you.
41:21If you were monarch, the crown has just settled on your head and you, all of a sudden, you have
41:26the powers of the monarch.
41:28What would you do?
41:29I wouldn't want to be queen.
41:31I know, but, but, but you are.
41:32But I'm queen.
41:33Okay, Queen Emily, for a day, would, and if money, I'm just going to say if money was no object.
41:38Ignore the Crown Estate, ignore the Sovereign Grant, ignore the Duchy of Lancaster.
41:43If the Duchy of Lancaster, which is the Sovereign's personal purse, were to be unlimited,
41:48I would send everybody free bouquets of flowers in the entire UK.
41:56Fill everyone's houses with fresh flowers.
41:59Really?
41:59Yeah, and maybe if they didn't want flowers, they could have a spray tan instead.
42:03Flowers or a spray tan on the Crown's coin?
42:05Yeah, flowers or a spray tan on the Crown's coin.
42:09Surely that would make everybody feel better about themselves, if only for a couple of days.
42:14What would you do?
42:16Oh, easy peasy.
42:18Doggies.
42:18Doggies?
42:19Yeah, I mean, the queen mother, it's always corgis, right?
42:21But actually through an accident, we've talked about this before, a corgi made special friends with a dachshund.
42:29And the result was a doggy, which I think was the queen's, the person who sort of invented it.
42:33The queen mother was very keen on doggies.
42:35I think we should have more doggies.
42:36Are you going to send everybody one?
42:38Or is it just a generic, everyone should have more doggies?
42:41I just would like the royal family, if it did have a sort of, you know, what's its kind of
42:44brand dog,
42:46I'd like it to be the doggy.
42:47Well, now it's Jack Russell as the brand dog, because of course, Queen Camilla's got Jack Russell.
42:52So I suppose for this rain, and the baubles have changed.
42:54For Christmas, the Royal Collection always used to sell corgis for your tree, for your Christmas tree.
43:00And now it's, you can buy a royal Jack Russell.
43:03Well, we're going to have to leave it there, I'm afraid.
43:05I'll buy you some flowers, Richard.
43:07I can't buy...
43:07I'll buy you a doggy.
43:09You buy me a doggy, I'll buy you some fresh flowers.
43:11But thank you so much for all your questions.
43:14Please keep them coming in, royals at spirit-studio.com.
43:18Goodbye.
43:19Goodbye.
43:20Goodbye.
43:21Goodbye.
43:22Bye.
43:22Have a great week.
43:24See you next week.
43:25Bye.
43:44Bye.
43:49Bye.
43:49You
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