00:08My guest today on Euronews' 12 Minutes With
00:11is the exiled Iranian Kurdish leader Abdullah Mokhtadi.
00:14Sir, thank you so much for joining us on Euronews.
00:17Of course, at this stage, it's a month of this war
00:19between Israel, the United States and Iran
00:22because you know there has been speculation, even reports
00:25that the Trump administration had suggested
00:28that perhaps you could join in this war
00:31against the regime in Tehran.
00:34Is there validity to those claims?
00:36Have you had those kind of conversations?
00:38Well, it was not that serious.
00:40President Trump decided not to invite Kurds
00:44to take part in the campaign.
00:47We are still in defensive positions in Iraqi Kurdistan
00:54and we have not crossed the border.
00:57We are under constant shelling by Iranian missiles and drones
01:04day and night for about a month now.
01:07But we are still in defensive positions.
01:10So, to that extent, then, you are confirming plans were debated,
01:16perhaps casually, but there was an idea before the war started
01:18that you could join forces with Israel and the U.S.
01:22Those conversations happened with the Trump administration directly.
01:26It was more an idea rather than a plan.
01:31There's a lot of uncertainty around this operation,
01:35what kind of plans the U.S. has in mind,
01:37the timeline to the ultimate goal.
01:40But I wonder if they were to ask you the same question now,
01:43would you say, yes, we will switch from defensive
01:46to now offensive?
01:48Because that call could come.
01:50It depends on the situation in Iran.
01:53We are Iranian Kurds.
01:56This is our homeland.
01:57This is our country.
01:59This is our land.
02:00This is our ancestors' land.
02:02So we have every right to return to our land.
02:06It depends how and when.
02:09It depends on the situation on the ground.
02:11If the Iranian regime is weakened enough, sufficiently enough,
02:17so that they can make no harm against the civilian people,
02:22against our forces,
02:24then yes, of course, we will be back on our land.
02:27What you're saying is you could join in,
02:30but there needs to be conditions on the ground
02:32in which the regime in Tehran is sufficiently degraded,
02:36and you don't think that's the case at this stage?
02:37The coalition of Iranian political parties,
02:42which we started almost a month ago before the war,
02:48is ready to cooperate with our people in Iranian Kurdistan.
02:55We can provide security.
02:57We can prevent chaos.
03:00We can prevent massacres by the Iranian security forces.
03:05And we are responsible political parties
03:09with massive support among the Iranian Kurds
03:14and a very popular position among the Iranians altogether.
03:19So we will be ready to go back to our country.
03:27Do you still have faith in the U.S. administration
03:29that they can achieve those strategic goals
03:32that they laid out at the beginning,
03:33which was a sort of regime change away from the hardliners
03:37and to destroy the nuclear threat?
03:39If they weaken the regime enough,
03:43if they crush the security forces,
03:46the military industrial base,
03:48not the civilian infrastructure, of course,
03:52we're not for that.
03:52But if they hit the pastar and the revolutionary guards enough,
03:57then maybe it can help the Iranian people
04:02to rise at some point.
04:04In fact, this war started 47 years ago
04:07by the Iranian regime.
04:09They confiscated the storm,
04:12the American embassy in Tehran.
04:14They started terrorist activities all over the region in the Middle East.
04:21They massacred their own people.
04:24They destabilized the whole region.
04:27So they threatened Israel to...
04:33that they want to annihilate Israel.
04:36They wanted death to America.
04:38It's 47 years that they are shouting death to America.
04:42In fact, I'm not surprised that the war is happening
04:46because I expected it to happen even decades ago.
04:50To be very specific,
04:52the Israelis did say they wanted to create the conditions
04:54on the ground for that to happen.
04:56The leadership obviously belongs to the Iranian people.
04:59But the U.S. did say that they could not work with the Ayatollah
05:02and, in fact, his debt.
05:03They also say the Ayatollah Jr.,
05:06that's how the Trump administration refers to the sun,
05:08is an unacceptable choice.
05:10And they also say they're in talks with more reasonable people.
05:14So from the outside,
05:15it does look like a form of regime change.
05:18And I wonder, who are reasonable people for you?
05:20Do you have any names in hand?
05:22No, I do not believe any figure
05:27in the existing Islamic Republic of Iran to be trustworthy.
05:33No one, not even the head of the parliament.
05:36None of them.
05:36You say that that will not work?
05:38Of course not.
05:39No, no.
05:40There are butchers of Iranian people.
05:42They killed more than a month ago.
05:45In January, they killed 32,000 people in 48 hours.
05:50They are butchers of the Iranian people.
05:53They are criminals.
05:54They are a bunch of criminals.
05:55We do not trust any of them.
05:58For us Iranian people, including Kurdish people,
06:01we are for a democratic, secular Iran.
06:04An Iran that respects the rights of Kurds
06:09and other nationalities and that respects democracy,
06:13that respects human rights,
06:15that respects international law.
06:17None of these figures in Iranian regime,
06:20existing regime, can achieve that,
06:23can be even near to that code.
06:25So then I wonder,
06:26if it's not from people already in Tehran,
06:28because they do not work for you
06:29and you say will not lead to a democratic, secular Iran,
06:32what about the opposition?
06:33Who is acceptable in the opposition?
06:35Because we are not seeing opposition externally
06:38and there are no protests in Iran.
06:40That's not happening either.
06:41There are credible oppositions.
06:45Like who?
06:46Inside and outside the country.
06:48Kurds are one of them.
06:49In fact, one of the main opposition forces
06:53for the past 47 years,
06:55we started, we were against this regime.
06:58We did not accept the Islamic regime of Iran
07:01from the outset.
07:04And we are still fighting for our rights
07:07and for democracy in Iran.
07:09There are also Balochis,
07:10there are also Azerbaijanis, Arabs, Persian people.
07:14People started protest movements
07:17many, many times in the past decades.
07:20So the Iranian regime has lost all vestiges
07:24of credibility and legitimacy.
07:28What road do you see for the Europeans?
07:30Are you satisfied with the messaging
07:32coming out of Europe?
07:34In a way, they talk about de-escalating,
07:36going back to diplomacy
07:36and at some point helping out
07:38to open the Strait of Hormuz,
07:40but not in the hot face of the war.
07:41Is that a message that you can abide to?
07:45Europeans have pursued a policy of appeasement
07:48for decades now towards Iran.
07:50And it's a bankrupt policy.
07:52Iran is a menace,
07:53not only for the United States,
07:55not only for Israel,
07:56not only for Arab countries in the region.
07:58It is a menace.
08:00It is a terrorist threat
08:02against Europeans as well.
08:04They should be more decisive.
08:07They should be more clear.
08:09They should join the United States
08:11in its effort to curb the Iranian influence
08:15and put an end to a regime
08:19that is a menace,
08:21a threat to its own people,
08:23to the region and to the West.
08:25They are anti-American.
08:27They are anti-West.
08:28They are anti-everybody in the region.
08:30So just so I understand,
08:32what you're saying is
08:32they should fight this war directly?
08:34They should engage militarily?
08:36I'm not deciding for them,
08:38but they should put pressure on Iran.
08:41They shouldn't go for de-escalation
08:45with a regime
08:46that is a threat to everybody
08:49and to the international community.
08:51They should join,
08:54if not militarily,
08:55at least politically and economically.
08:58They should join force
09:00to put an end to this regime
09:03and help the Iranian people.
09:04That's what we expect the Europeans to do.
09:07So in that sense,
09:08when President Trump is critical of the Europeans
09:10and he says they're not helping enough,
09:12is he right?
09:13I'm speaking from the standpoint
09:15of the Iranian and the Kurdish people in Iran.
09:18We expect the Europeans
09:20to help the Iranian people,
09:22to help the Kurdish people,
09:24to help women,
09:25ethnic groups,
09:27religious minorities,
09:28everybody else.
09:29We are under pressure by,
09:30we have been under pressure
09:32and repression by the Iranian regime
09:34for decades now.
09:36Where are Europeans?
09:37Where are the human rights articles?
09:42They should have been more active,
09:44more pro-democracy in Iran,
09:48more pro-people
09:49unless they should decouple with Iran.
09:54They should put an end
09:55to the appeasement policy of appeasement.
09:59Yes.
10:00So when you look at countries like Spain,
10:02I'm just wondering,
10:03the Spanish prime minister,
10:04what does that evoke to you?
10:06Because he said this war is illegal.
10:07Europe cannot join
10:08because this war is illegal.
10:10Massacre is,
10:11is massacre legal?
10:12is terrorism legal?
10:14Iranians,
10:15the Iranian regime
10:16boasted a couple of years ago
10:18that they control five capitals
10:20in the region.
10:23and they,
10:25they are,
10:26they have
10:27organized and
10:28financed
10:29and armed
10:30many
10:31proxies,
10:32terrorist groups
10:33in the whole Middle East.
10:35They are
10:35trying to
10:36annihilate Israel.
10:38They're trying to
10:39expel the United States
10:41and the West
10:41from the region.
10:43They're reshaping
10:44the region
10:45according to their,
10:48to their adventurous
10:50illusions.
10:51So,
10:53it's time
10:54for the Europeans
10:55to,
10:55to put an end
10:57to this policy
10:58of appeasement
10:59and take
11:00a more active
11:02pro-Iranian
11:03anti-regime policy.
11:06And let me ask you
11:07just as a final question,
11:08the other big
11:09regional power,
11:10of course,
11:10is Turkey.
11:11Have you had
11:12any communications
11:13with President Erdogan?
11:15Of course,
11:15there's also been
11:16multiple reports
11:17that he does not
11:18want to see
11:18this war escalate
11:19and that he also
11:20doesn't really
11:20see a role for you.
11:22Are you having
11:22any direct communications
11:23or if not
11:24back-channel dialogue
11:25with the Turkish?
11:27We've been trying
11:28to assure Turkey
11:29that we have
11:30no bad intentions
11:31against Turkey.
11:31We can be friends.
11:33We can be good neighbors
11:34both in Iran
11:36and in Iranian
11:37Kurdistan
11:38with Turkey.
11:39So,
11:39we are doing
11:40no harms to them.
11:41There is no reason
11:42for them
11:43to be concerned
11:44about our intentions
11:46and our policies
11:47in Iranian Kurdistan.
11:49Okay,
11:49well,
11:49on that note,
11:50thank you so much
11:51for joining us
11:51on Euronews.
11:52Good to see you
11:53and thanks for your time.
11:55Thank you.
Commentaires