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00:04in recent years murders carried out by young men who openly spoke of their hatred for women
00:11have dominated headlines unfortunately by the time the emergency services got to the beach
00:16Amy was already dead for the next three days I woke up crying every morning politicians and
00:26the public's reactions to these brutal killings has led to an intense focus on controversial
00:32internet subcultures the day before the crimes Clifford was looking at Andrew Tate videos online
00:39this idea that you can look at one word one post and it will make you a misogynist it's nonsensical
00:46these high-profile homicides have coincided with a rise in police reports of violent misogyny over
00:541,600 primary schools had reports of experiences of rape culture sexual assault financial abuse
01:01domestic finance a dangerous group of men called incels a fearful time for women what we've been
01:08through you will never escape that a confusing time for men social media suicide women are incapable of
01:17love no one can really define what being a man or masculine is more money equals more pictures
01:24a cultural clash over what a man should be even when you've got a nice guy yeah because we hear
01:32this word a lot a nice guy and he turns out to be just as useless as the rest of
01:36them but are we
01:37arriving at the right conclusions so effectively I have got everything wrong about themselves yes
01:43focusing on the right things just to put onto the online world is potentially going to miss a lot
01:49of the other things for good and bad my adult life has been defined by other people's views on
01:55masculinity I want to find out what's fueling a generation of men in crisis and what can be done
02:02to stop the spread of violence against women to be frank this has been a hard subject to investigate
02:15it's the father of two young girls growing up in a world of increasing violent misogyny and dad to
02:22two boys living in a time where some young men are faced with a crisis of identity increasing suicide
02:29rates and where some young men commit random acts of violence it's it's hard not to worry about their
02:37future but on the other hand I have been encouraged by some of the individuals and organizations that
02:43I've met trying to come up with solutions but there's still no quick fix as the people of Croydon
02:53found out in September 2023 our top story today a 15 year old girl has been stabbed to death in
03:01the
03:01rush hour in South London another teenager has been arrested emergency services were called to Wellesley
03:07Road around half past eight this morning the girl was treated by air ambulance medics but died a short
03:13long time later I love speaking about her just because she was just an amazing young person love
03:24joking love messing around love dancing every time they used to come to my house I'm her and my other
03:30cousins they would do tick tock videos I felt old just a normal young girl from Croydon that just loved
03:37life
03:40my name is Denzel Lobby I'm a pastor at West Croydon Baptist Church and I'm a husband I'm a father
03:48and
03:49I'm a cousin to a beautiful young girl called Elia Anandam she wants to be a human rights lawyer and
04:00yeah
04:00that really drove her passion into many things but mainly she just hated any form of injustice from the
04:07smallest level like snails being stepped on it was her loyalty to her friends that ultimately cost her
04:16her life my name is Alex chalk I was the lead prosecutor in the case of the crown against Hassan
04:23sentiment he formed a short-lived relationship with a girl who was a friend of Elia An's and Elia An
04:33got to
04:34know Hassan through that but really she didn't know him terribly well he principally came to her
04:40attention because when there was the breakup he Hassan acted in a way which the girls quite rightly took
04:49offense to so he swore at her and was abusive when this girl Elia An's friend wanted to call an
04:58end to
04:58the relationship and Elia An again is this gesture of solidarity said look he shouldn't speak to he
05:03shouldn't speak to you like that
05:09I think that it's central for a lot of young men and boys and older men in fact to their
05:18sense of
05:19self-identity self-worth and also masculine pride and honor that others show them respect and when
05:31they feel that they are not being respected that somebody is taking liberties with them that if they
05:37don't somehow respond to that and punish that then they are showing a a weak side
05:49so there was a shopping center called the wit gift shopping center in central Coydon and an
05:56arrangement had been made for the girls to meet with Hassan sentiment they met in the afternoon in the
06:03wit gift center and Hassan spent a bit of time speaking with his ex-girlfriend but what the girls
06:12were keen to see is an apology for the way that the ex-girlfriend had been spoken to and treated
06:19and
06:20they were saying why don't you just apologize why can't you just say sorry but he stood there
06:27utterly impassive arms crossed refusing to engage at all but then what happened was the girls who
06:36became increasingly riled and frustrated about his impassivity his refusal to engage with him at all
06:42then one of them in a clearly in a gesture that she later regretted and felt ashamed of
06:47splashed a bit of water to try to provoke a reaction but there was no reaction
06:55that night Hassan's friend called him to check how he was and what did Hassan say he said
07:04was I made to look a fool did I look like a dickhead and his friend said bro don't waste
07:11your life
07:12he knew that at that moment Hassan was on a mission that having been humiliated he could not live with
07:18that humiliation at the hands of 15 year old girls and he was going to do something about it and
07:22his
07:22friend said don't do it and then he said in those words which were so chilling because it set the
07:27path
07:28for what was going to happen bro I can't let this slide
07:39a woman is murdered by a man every three days in the United Kingdom I'm meeting Jess Phillips the
07:46government's lead on safeguarding and violence against women and girls who has pledged to half
07:52violence against females in the next decade I rise as I do at this time of year to remember the
08:01women
08:01who have been killed by men in the last year Alicia Nazarova Beryl Purdy Sarah Bateman an unnamed woman Lucy
08:16D
08:16Hayley Burke Katie Heighton Kelly Pitt Christine Sun I think of the the piece of data that keeps me awake
08:28at night
08:29is that of child sexual abuse last it you know last year for example the where we know the age
08:38of the
08:39perpetrator over half of all child sexual abuse was perpetrated by somebody aged 10 to 17 the most
08:48likely age is 14 and the year before it was 15 so it's dropping so what do you think fueling
08:55violent
08:56misogyny it's very difficult to pinpoint one thing but the wide availability of online content
09:06pornography you know the idea of masculinity as a sort of political tool as well that gets hyped up by
09:16different people and I think that all of those things have contributed to what leads to violence and
09:24misogyny how much of what you're planning to do is preventative and how much of it is reactive if
09:31we look at the the Department for Education have recently released the new curriculum and guidance for
09:40schools with regard to teaching healthy relationship education and quite a lot of evidence shows that if
09:48you have a universal scheme for all children in school that you can see a reduction over time and of
09:58around I
09:59think it was 17 percent reduction in if we have young people being given this the proper education on
10:08this that that reduces violence against women and girls in that younger group by around 17 percent but education
10:15only works if you can keep children in the classroom Hassan Sentamou had been excluded from multiple schools
10:23and so the chance to be taught respect control and empathy slipped away in their absence he would instead choose
10:32violence
10:36the following day Hassan Sentamou gets up early
10:39and he puts on several layers of his tracksuit bottoms more than one layer of tracksuit bottoms why did he
10:48do
10:48that well because he was going to secrete a knife he didn't take the bread knife he didn't take a
10:54short
10:54little dagger knife he took out a proper blade a chopping knife and then he gets on a bus heads
11:03into
11:04central Croydon there'd been an exchange over WhatsApp to meet the following day to exchange between his
11:13ex-girlfriend and him the belongings that they had swapped during the course of relationship they met very
11:21close to the wit gift center Eliane gets out her phone and she records this video
11:40he reaches into his waistband he pulls out the knife and he starts sprinting after him
11:49he catches up with her and then the blows rain down on her he mercilessly stabs her
12:01the lack of male role models at home and at school is a recurring theme when we talk about violent
12:08young
12:08men only one in four teachers in our schools are men just one in seven in nursery and primary school
12:15now I want more male teachers guiding teaching leading the boys in our classrooms what's the
12:22thinking behind that the theory goes really that these boys are going to respond better to some
12:28masculine figures within the classroom the research around this I think shows us that it's a bit of a
12:36flawed strategy there was one study that said that about a third of students would say their parents are
12:42a main role model and then they list other people you know footballers actors like like yourself you
12:50know celebrities people that they say you know these are our role models teachers of 2.4 percent of
12:56students said they saw teachers as role models and I think that if we're going to look for for big
13:01solutions it's a bit of a red herring going down this approach I think having more male teachers may
13:08make little difference but I've already met one teacher who's having a significant impact on all
13:14aspects of his students lives it's not necessarily because Patrick Kelly is a man it's more that his
13:21workshops dedicated to discussing masculinity are resonating you're all going to get a post-it note
13:27and your job is to do the following in your own opinion based on your upbringing based on everything
13:33that you know and heard of masculinity I want you to write down three things on your post-it note
13:37in
13:37terms of what it means to be a man make sense Danny okay perfect John uh I wrote you can't
13:44show
13:44emotions as often as others guys just hands up if you've written something along that down so
13:49something about not showing emotions interesting right Oli I wrote try to be the best at everything I
13:55do because if I'm not the best at something like I like doing I can get frustrated about it yeah
14:00do you want to
14:00hands up who've done that one for I mean for me Oli this is the one I relate to the
14:04most yeah this
14:05like constant pressure just to be good at everything that we do yeah after discussing the expectations
14:11around masculinity Patrick asked the boys how they would redefine manhood so what I've written guys is
14:19I would like being a man to mean doing stuff simply for the enjoyment and not this focus on being
14:25the
14:25best or winning it or mastering it Seb standing up for what's right why is it not always easy to
14:31stand
14:31up for what's right something to just have to follow the crowd absolutely we call this peer pressure in
14:37education and like I think every single boy will will be able to relate to this this idea that when
14:42your friend says a joke or says a comment and you know they probably shouldn't say it that how
14:47unbelievably difficult it is to call that comment out when your whole friendship group maybe is laughing
14:51about it uh Ross kinder to ourselves and others that's a nice one oh what do you mean by that
14:57Ross well I think that I think it can be perceived as a weakness it's I'm talking about complete
15:03strangers or it can seem odd if you're generally openly kind to people I don't want being powerful
15:09to mean that you're intimidating to people or that you're a bully or that you're violent or that
15:13you're scaring people so redefining this word just means being powerful just means being confident
15:19in the lesson means being self-assured it means standing up for people guys thank you very much
15:24for your time today do you want to give yourself a last little round of applause
15:29I can honestly say I am genuinely impressed with what I've just witnessed what are the issues these
15:36boys are faced with for me a huge one peer pressure a huge one the pressures associated with being
15:43masculine tell me Patrick about the gains that you've seen in those boys the biggest difference I see
15:49with these boys I've worked with from beginning to end is an increase in self-esteem when we're able
15:54to have conversations like we have today I think it's a really I think it's really powerful and
15:59really eye-opening for maybe people in society to see boys open up and to see what they're really
16:11thinking but it isn't only boys and teenagers finding it difficult to cope with masculinity in the
16:18modern age men only retreats are becoming increasingly popular and I'm joining one in Devon to find out why
16:29men can we give a big warm welcome to Ross Kemp thank you thousands of years men have carried a
16:43burden
16:46and often they've carried it alone
16:52they've struggled they've placed bricks on their shoulders one after the other
16:58it's caused them pain and suffering
17:05men we invite you to the unmasked man
17:10a place to be real a place to be vulnerable a place to be seen in all of your beauty
17:18and your
17:18messiness no more hiding no more masking no more performing actually
17:34I want you to bring to your heart and to your mind's eye
17:41that the person in front of you
17:44is a man
17:46that has probably had to suffer some of the most incredibly painful
17:51moments in his life
17:52and now I invite you to raise your head
17:58and to look
18:02and to see the pain that is in this other man's eyes
18:06to see what he has had to experience
18:08we're going to take a moment to look that man in the eye
18:13and then we're going to tell him in one sentence
18:17that one man goes first
18:19what he always needed to hear from his father
18:22it's not always about competition
18:24and now I want you to consider what has this cost you not having this
18:33this connection
18:34trust in people
18:37thanks man
18:39thank you
18:53as a man have you been scared to show your power
18:58talk to me about that why is that
18:59I've been shamed for my anger a lot
19:02and it was always my default place to go
19:05it was very comfortable for me
19:07I was good at being angry
19:08I thought I'm being a man
19:09I'm being angry since this is what you do
19:13yeah
19:14learnt the hard way has cost me a lot of relationships
19:20thank you for your vulnerability
19:21I almost didn't come to the retreat today
19:24last night I got a call confirming that my father had been diagnosed with a terminal disease
19:30but I would have felt guilty for cancelling at the last moment
19:34and maybe it was a good thing that I didn't
19:37we got brought up in a society where our grandfathers probably had to go to war
19:43yeah
19:43so they didn't have time for emotion
19:45they had to bury their emotions six feet underground
19:48it's going to be an opportunity to share something vulnerable
19:52that maybe follows on from what you've just shared
19:54my father was in the army
19:55then he was in the police force
19:57he was absent a lot
19:58and now I'm losing him
19:59yeah
19:59but because I was made to be effectively alpha male winner
20:04that's a lonely path
20:06I have built up layers around me to protect me
20:10that I've only sort of come to terms with as I've got older
20:13and because I'm an older man
20:14but I still use that armour
20:17because that was what's being blokey was being about
20:20yeah
20:22and if you were free of that armour
20:24what would your life look like?
20:26I'd have been less competitive and aggressive
20:29I'd have maybe had more relationships
20:31that ended in a better way
20:33particularly with women
20:34yeah
20:36and I'd probably had a wider social circle of friends
20:40that takes a brave man
20:42to step in
20:43and to be vulnerable
20:44like you have
20:49there you go
20:50don't have to carry this anymore
20:53don't have to carry it anymore
20:57no longer
20:59let it go
21:02I'm just sick of
21:04pretending I've got it all together
21:06anyone else feel like that?
21:08place your hand up
21:10yeah
21:10just have a look around
21:11what's behind that?
21:13love has never felt secure or safe for me
21:16alright men
21:18invitation
21:31so we're a space for men to come
21:33and feel the trauma that they've suppressed
21:36the pain that they haven't faced
21:38we can still be vulnerable
21:39and not lose our strength
21:40not lose our power
21:41but men are suffering
21:43men are deeply deeply suffering
21:45I can already feel
21:49positivity inside me
21:51and also feel that
21:54inside that space
21:55men who are complete strangers to me
21:57I felt
21:59at ease with them
22:01which is not something that you'll
22:03often feel as a man
22:04walking into
22:05a room full of men
22:06right
22:07and undoubtedly
22:08there'll be people
22:09watching this
22:11saying this is
22:12mumbo jumbo
22:13being incredibly sceptical
22:15sometimes they come
22:16because their partners send them
22:18and their wives send them
22:18and we have many men
22:19that turn up
22:21cross-armed
22:22very anti this work
22:23I came here
22:24because I got sent by my partner
22:26after a few hours
22:28they're on board
22:30the armour's down
22:31the defences are down
22:32now the cynic might be like
22:34I'm absolutely fine
22:35I'm going to slide into my coffin
22:37I'm going to work really hard
22:38I'm not going to ask for help
22:39okay
22:41so how's that impacting
22:43people you care about
22:44I do that
22:45I am guilty of that
22:46I'm guilty of that
22:48because if I'm having a hard day
22:50and I come home
22:51I'm not as loving to my children
22:53or to my wife
22:54I'm not as caring
22:55I'm not
22:55I don't think about them
22:57I'm thinking
22:57I've got
22:58I didn't get what I needed to get today
23:00in order to get up that next
23:01rung of the ladder
23:02less so now
23:04but definitely guilty of that
23:05in the past
23:06like
23:06the more and more men
23:08that I see
23:08they want this
23:10they just want to get rid of the mask
23:12that they're wearing
23:13they want to stop saying
23:14I need to toughen up
23:15this tough up
23:16man up
23:17energy
23:17it's not supportive
23:19it's not sustainable actually
23:20it's like driving in the fast lane
23:22and never refuelling
23:23you're going to have a crash
23:25to try to avoid that crash
23:28Alex has another couple of exercises
23:30one in particular
23:31that encourages men
23:33to purge their pent up frustrations
23:35and aggression
23:37I'm meeting your aggression
23:38and it's okay to meet your power
23:39your aggression
23:40okay
23:40these men are going to celebrate you
23:42all right
23:42when you're ready
23:43let's go
23:44look at me
23:45look at me
23:47look at me
23:47look at me
23:48look at me
23:49keep your eyes open
23:50look at me
23:51look at me
23:52look at me
23:52look at me
23:52look at me
23:55that's it
23:56that's it
23:59and contain
24:00contain
24:01contain
24:02feel the power in your body
24:04it's okay to be powerful
24:06you feel that
24:07relax the jaw
24:09feel good
24:09yeah
24:10yeah
24:11just take a breath
24:16your father would be proud brother
24:18yeah
24:19your father would be proud
24:20that's amazing
24:21I saw my dad
24:22thank you
24:22yes
24:23yes
24:23yes
24:25yes
24:28I've met so many young men
24:29going to dangerous extremes
24:31both physically and mentally
24:33as they struggle
24:35what they think a man should be
24:37or what they believe
24:38society wants them to be
24:40the men that I've met here
24:42are from all walks
24:43and stages of life
24:46and if nothing else
24:47the bonds that they've made here
24:49can only do them good
24:51but what surprised me the most
24:53was just how easy it was for them
24:56to open up
24:57with their emotions
25:00but maybe that's the reason they're here
25:01because they can't do that
25:03because they can't do that
25:03in everyday life
25:04in Hassan Sentamu's case
25:07we saw what can happen
25:09when anger is left unaddressed
25:11and the devastating cost
25:14of isolation
25:31Eliane initially got to her feet
25:33and she has her hand
25:34and she's clutching it
25:35to what we then found
25:36was the fatal wound
25:38she's holding it
25:39and then she crumples to the floor
25:41and then everyone knows
25:43that she never got up again
25:45this is where they tried to save her
25:48medical kits
25:49and a school bag
25:50strewn on the ground
25:52where a 15 year old girl
25:54was stabbed to death
25:55on her way to school
25:58we decided to go on holiday
26:00on that day
26:01and we were on the plane
26:03you know
26:03you turn your phone off
26:04of course
26:05and so as soon as we landed
26:06I turned my phone back on
26:09and I saw in the message
26:11that it's so sad to hear
26:13about the 15 year old girl
26:14who had died
26:14and then suddenly
26:15my phone started ringing
26:16my sister kept calling me
26:18she was just hysteric on the phone
26:21and she said
26:23Eliane has been killed
26:25and I remember I just froze
26:29and I just broke down
26:35what did Hassan do
26:36he just
26:37he just
26:38sprinted off
26:39he knew exactly
26:40what he'd done
26:41because within seconds
26:43he was trying to cover his tracks
26:46he abandons his gloves
26:47in a bin
26:48he disposed of a knife
26:54he gets on a bus
26:55tries to get out of there
26:56as quickly as possible
27:09what's your name mate
27:11what's your name
27:12what's your name
27:13John
27:14have you got any idea
27:15any way
27:15I'm looking for someone
27:16who should stab someone
27:17need to see your name
27:18say something in the oysters car
27:21put your hands behind your back
27:23put your hands behind your back
27:24now
27:25listen listen listen
27:26listen
27:27listen
27:28listen
27:28listen
27:29listen
27:30right now
27:31I need you do nothing
27:33but
27:33I need you do nothing
27:37urgent assistance
27:39King Henry's Drive near the park
27:40I'm Mark
27:40I've got this mail to sign
27:44we as a family
27:46are struggling
27:47to comprehend
27:49this painful tragedy
27:51that has happened
27:53to our beautiful daughter
27:55and beloved sister
27:58Eliane
28:04during the trial
28:05we heard a lot
28:06about his upbringing
28:08we heard that he had
28:10hard situations
28:11in Uganda
28:12he said that he was beaten out
28:14there
28:14he was beaten with a metal pole
28:15and when he came back
28:17his behaviour deteriorated
28:18but my goodness
28:19it did deteriorate
28:21he went through a series of schools
28:24and he demonstrated
28:25extremely volatile behaviour
28:27including pulling a knife
28:29and having pulled the knife
28:32then threatening to stab himself
28:34on another occasion
28:36pulling out a pair of scissors
28:37and threatening someone else
28:39he'd tried to cut off the ponytails
28:42of girls
28:44his mother struggled
28:46to look after him
28:46and so he was in foster care
28:48and we see from the school records
28:50that violence was just normal for him
28:53it was just
28:53if he doesn't get his way
28:55violence is the answer
28:57as hard as it is for me to say that now
28:59I do think that if there were other measures
29:02that were taken
29:03I think my cousin will be here
29:05today
29:07I think that this is somebody
29:09who has
29:10not been taught
29:11to regulate
29:12his emotions
29:13you need
29:14a consistent caregiver
29:16who when you are upset
29:19will take you
29:20in their arms
29:22and they will be calm
29:24and they will be calming
29:26and they will hold you
29:27and they will soothe you
29:28until you will calm down
29:30and I just don't think
29:32that he'd ever had that
29:34one thing I saw missing
29:35in Hassan's life
29:38was
29:39where's your dad
29:39where's your uncle
29:41there was just no male presence
29:44in his life whatsoever
29:45in the United States
29:47around two thirds of men
29:49say their father
29:50greatly influenced their views
29:52about what it means
29:53to be a man
29:54and in the UK
29:562.5 million children
29:58one in five
29:59have no father figure
30:01at home
30:02one charity
30:03Lads Need Dads
30:05is trying to remedy that
30:08apologies everybody
30:09it's about time
30:10Mr Ken
30:10thank you
30:11there we go
30:13welcome welcome
30:14thank you
30:14for allowing me here
30:17we're going to be starting off
30:18with our chicken
30:18all of these boys
30:20grew up
30:21without a father figure
30:22what we ask the boys
30:24what we ask the boys
30:26how they're feeling today
30:28and then to rate themselves
30:30out of ten
30:30which is one
30:31is
30:33I'm struggling
30:34and ten
30:34is I'm doing really well
30:36I'm feeling
30:37a big sense of clarity
30:42at the moment
30:43about a month and a half
30:44I split up with my
30:46long term girlfriend
30:47it's been quite
30:49confusing
30:50I give myself
30:52an 8
30:53an 8.5
30:548.5
30:57I reckon I'm
30:59well it was probably
31:00a 7 until I got here
31:01and I've got up to an 8
31:02but I've lost
31:03two people who are
31:04close to me this year
31:05one died
31:05which is my dad
31:06which was in August
31:08and two weeks ago
31:09a friend of mine
31:09killed himself
31:11Sonia Shaljean
31:12founded this charity
31:14after noticing
31:15a worrying trend
31:16while specialising
31:17in the field
31:18of domestic violence
31:20I felt like
31:22I was just
31:23firefighting
31:24you know
31:24just responding to issues
31:25and I wanted to try
31:26and reduce
31:27what was happening
31:28so I turned my attention
31:29to working with men
31:30and what I kept on finding
31:33was that
31:34so many of the men
31:35that I was working with
31:37had grown up
31:37without a dad
31:38or they'd had a bad
31:39experience of dad
31:40so I started to kind of
31:42put one
31:42you know
31:42two and two together
31:43and realised
31:44hang on
31:45have we got
31:45got a common theme
31:47going on
31:48why is nobody
31:48doing anything
31:49about working
31:50with young boys
31:52particularly
31:53to prevent them
31:54going down the same
31:55path when they're older
31:58Sonia
31:58what is the state
31:59of fatherlessness
32:00in the UK presently
32:01there's a lot of research
32:03out there
32:04that links
32:05absent fathers
32:06to boys
32:07that struggle
32:08with
32:09anger
32:10with their emotions
32:12with
32:12their mental health
32:14underachieving
32:15at school
32:16so is there a correlation
32:18between boys
32:19who grow up
32:19without fathers
32:20and boys
32:21who end up
32:21in prison
32:21the last statistic
32:23that I know of
32:24is that
32:2476%
32:25of
32:27males
32:27under the age
32:28of 18
32:30in
32:30England
32:31and Wales
32:32prisons
32:32have grown up
32:33without a father
32:34sonia
32:36sonia brings
32:36together
32:37fatherless
32:37boys
32:38with older
32:39mentors
32:39to help
32:40them learn
32:41empathy
32:41and anger
32:42management
32:43as well as
32:44teaching them
32:44practical skills
32:46like cooking
32:47budgeting
32:48and car mechanics
32:52what's it like
32:53growing up
32:53without a dad
32:54yeah
32:55really tough
32:56I feel like
32:57just little things
32:57every day
32:58where it's
32:59you want to ask them
33:00a question
33:00or you want help
33:01or advice
33:01or something
33:02that
33:03you can get
33:04from other people
33:04but I don't think
33:05it's the same
33:05I think it's
33:06different
33:06coming from
33:07your dad
33:07having that
33:08that male role model
33:10to look up to
33:11I got angrier
33:13more
33:13more
33:14more emotional
33:15like a lot more
33:16a lot more
33:17outbursts
33:18from me
33:20almost hiding
33:22how I was really
33:23feeling
33:24and
33:25it definitely
33:27started to affect
33:27myself
33:28and people
33:29around me
33:30friends
33:31family
33:31school
33:31it was
33:32it was definitely
33:33a downwards path
33:34so what do you think
33:35would have happened
33:36if you hadn't
33:36come here
33:37well
33:38I don't think
33:40I'd be standing
33:41here anymore
33:45so many of the
33:47troubled young men
33:48in this series
33:48have lacked
33:50a father figure
33:51in their lives
33:53Jake never really
33:55had a father
33:55he's never had me
33:56in the house
33:56I've only grown up
33:57with my sister
33:58and my mother
33:58there's no
33:59father figure
34:00in the picture
34:01did you have
34:02any
34:03male
34:04role models
34:05in your life
34:06I do see him
34:12in a negative way
34:14of course
34:14he's hurt my family
34:15but there's also
34:16a side of me
34:17that thinks
34:18my gosh
34:18I just wish
34:19I just wish
34:20someone loved
34:21another male
34:21loved you
34:22and really cared
34:23for you
34:24if someone
34:25just
34:26another male
34:26just took him
34:27by the hands
34:28and really
34:29invested in him
34:30like others
34:30have invested
34:31in me
34:31I wholeheartedly
34:33believe that
34:33my cousin
34:34will still
34:34be here
34:42Hassan Sentamu
34:4318 years old
34:45now
34:45found guilty
34:46of Eliane
34:47and Anne's murder
34:49what do you hope
34:50comes
34:51from sharing
34:52Eliane's story
34:53I have a cousin
34:55who
34:55even
34:56in her last moments
34:58was standing up
34:59for what was good
35:00and I just love
35:01that about her
35:06it wasn't just
35:06our family grieving
35:07it really felt like
35:09the whole of Croydon
35:10what we're grieving
35:11that loss
35:12it has horrified people
35:14absolutely horrified
35:15like we have
35:16young girls
35:17who are scared
35:18to go to school
35:18it does make me anxious
35:20I must be honest
35:21it does make me anxious
35:21for my young daughter
35:24for a long time
35:25I've really
35:27resented him
35:28so I think
35:28particularly during trial
35:30when I would see him
35:32I just
35:33I just feel
35:34elements of rage
35:35I had
35:35just to be honest
35:37I had
35:37times where I was like
35:38how can I jump
35:39this doc
35:40to get this guy
35:41who's done something
35:42so senseless
35:45but I think
35:46I've come to a point
35:47now where
35:48I don't
35:49I don't feel
35:49total pity
35:51for him
35:51because he
35:51he knows what he did
35:56but there is
35:57an element of
35:58pity
35:58that I have
35:59for him
36:00that he's got himself
36:01in this situation
36:02and honestly
36:03now I hope
36:04that as he serves
36:05his time in prison
36:06that he does change
36:07and actually
36:09he can
36:09when he comes out
36:10eventually
36:12he could be
36:12such a great
36:13voice
36:14imagine the voice
36:16that he will have
36:17to tell other young men
36:19don't do what I've done
36:21it's my hope
36:22that's my prayer
36:23for him
36:23I'm still
36:25on that healing
36:25process
36:27but I think
36:28right now
36:29I wish no harm
36:30to come his way
36:31Hassan Sentamu
36:33will spend
36:34at least
36:3423 years
36:35in prison
36:36in the hope
36:37that he can be
36:38rehabilitated
36:39young men
36:41are facing
36:42a growing
36:42mental health
36:43crisis
36:43but what's
36:44being done
36:45to tackle
36:46this issue
36:47incels
36:48whose recent
36:49notoriety
36:49prompted
36:50this investigation
36:51can turn
36:52to professor
36:53and therapist
36:54Andrew Thomas
36:55at the University
36:56of Swansea
36:57he's invited me
36:59to join a call
37:00with a US
37:01based incel
37:02how are you
37:03nice to meet you too
37:09I really like
37:11hate myself
37:13like
37:14it's going to
37:15sound extreme
37:15but I really do
37:16see myself
37:16as like
37:17subhuman
37:19you know
37:19and
37:21like sometimes
37:22I'll be at the store
37:23I'll like make
37:24eye contact
37:24with like some
37:25random lady
37:26like it'll just
37:27like strike me
37:27oh shit
37:28she probably
37:29thinks I'm like
37:29fucking ugly
37:30oh my god
37:31she's probably
37:32disgusted by me
37:32but it's just like
37:34but sometimes
37:34I'm like
37:35she's just like
37:35a random stranger
37:36I don't think
37:36she really cares
37:37honestly
37:37I understand
37:38the rejection
37:39stings doesn't it
37:40it hurts
37:42and
37:44we build walls
37:45sometimes to keep
37:46people out
37:46and to stop
37:47them from
37:48from hurting us
37:50how long has
37:51that wall
37:52been there for you
37:52for years
37:54like all my life
37:58and last time
37:59we spoke
38:00you were trying
38:01pretty hard
38:02to stay away
38:03from the incel
38:04content
38:04like forums
38:05and stuff
38:06right
38:06how has that
38:07been over
38:08the last week
38:09um
38:10I haven't watched
38:11any
38:14good
38:14yeah
38:16brilliant
38:16well done
38:17yeah
38:18when I would
38:18go on there
38:18digital self-harm
38:21like I'd read a post
38:22and
38:23I just feel
38:24fucking shitty
38:25about myself
38:26it's bad for you
38:27what's the objective
38:28for you
38:29is it just to
38:30ascend out
38:31of the
38:31black pill
38:33oh for sure
38:34I don't want
38:35to be like this
38:37I really don't
38:38want to be
38:38in this mindset
38:39it makes me miserable
38:40you know
38:41like there's definitely
38:41some hope for sure
38:43I really do
38:44like I really
38:45don't like this
38:46at all
38:46like I hate it
38:47Andrew says
38:49he's been
38:49criticised by
38:50some for his
38:51work with
38:52incels
38:52those who
38:54cannot see
38:54past the
38:55idea
38:55that incels
38:56are a threat
38:57to the public
38:58see what people
39:00really want
39:01what they're
39:02crying out
39:03for
39:03is some
39:04sort of
39:04intervention
39:04that takes
39:06an incel
39:06by the throat
39:07gives them
39:07a good shake
39:08and says
39:09don't do that
39:10that's a stupid
39:11thing to believe
39:12so how
39:14do you help
39:15incels
39:15it has to be
39:16a relationship
39:17that's grounded
39:17in empathy
39:18I need to
39:18understand
39:19what's going
39:19understand
39:20understand
39:21be able to
39:21adopt the
39:22perspective
39:22without
39:24agreeing with
39:25it
39:25you can
39:26fully understand
39:27someone's
39:28position
39:28or at least
39:29try to
39:30while still
39:31maintaining
39:32it's an
39:32abhorrent
39:32position
39:33but only
39:34when you
39:34they feel
39:36like you
39:37understand
39:37them
39:38and you
39:38build a bit
39:38of a
39:38relationship
39:39can you
39:40then start
39:41to
39:41well
39:42they might
39:42then start
39:43to listen
39:43to you
39:43otherwise
39:44they're locked
39:44in
39:45because the story
39:46time and time
39:46again from incels
39:47is they start
39:48feeling a certain
39:49way
39:49they start
39:49feeling a bit
39:50bitter
39:50a bit
39:51rejected
39:51like they're
39:52a victim
39:53but they say
39:54that no one
39:55around them
39:55is
39:57receptive to that
39:58they can't
39:58talk about it
39:59with anyone
39:59so where do
40:00they go
40:01it goes to the
40:02forum
40:02how easy
40:04is it
40:05to de-radicalize
40:06the incel
40:07the deeper
40:08they get
40:08into the
40:09ideology
40:09the worse
40:10the mental
40:10health
40:11gets
40:12the worse
40:12the mental
40:13health
40:13gets
40:13the deeper
40:14they go
40:14into the
40:14ideology
40:16if i think
40:17about past
40:18cases that i've
40:19had you could
40:20be well over a
40:20year to get
40:23progress
40:23it can take
40:25years to just
40:26take tiny steps
40:27and we've got
40:28a growing number
40:29of incels in the
40:30united kingdom
40:31so how many
40:33people are there
40:35like you
40:36that are out
40:37there treating
40:38them
40:38i'm not aware
40:40of anyone else
40:40who's specializing
40:41in the way
40:41that i am
40:42the fact that
40:43andrew is the
40:44only therapist
40:45specializing in
40:47treating incels
40:48reflects the
40:49limitations of
40:50mental health
40:51services available
40:52to deeply
40:53troubled and
40:54isolated young
40:55men
40:56i've learned
40:57how the absence
40:58of men in
40:59boys lives can
41:00have a profound
41:01effect but
41:02clearly the
41:03lack of women
41:03and healthy
41:04female interaction
41:06can be just
41:07as damaging
41:08the common
41:09theme in all
41:10the cases i've
41:11looked at is a
41:13combination of
41:13viewing women
41:14as fundamentally
41:15different from
41:16men and then
41:18having been
41:18rejected by them
41:19seeing violence
41:21as the only
41:22recourse
41:23so when i meet
41:25these guys they
41:26have a very
41:27two-dimensional
41:27version of women
41:28a poisoned two
41:30dimensional version
41:31of women
41:31so if you're
41:32someone who has
41:33no female influence
41:34in your life
41:34that becomes
41:36women to you
41:37and as they start
41:38to come out
41:38as they get more
41:38female friends
41:39as they engage
41:40more with female
41:41family members
41:41they come to
41:42realize that a
41:44the caricature is
41:45wrong
41:46but b if they see
41:48women talk in a
41:50way or say
41:52something that
41:52goes against
41:53their views
41:54that that's just
41:55one part of a
41:56person
41:57today we remember
41:59a young lady
42:00who made the
42:01ultimate sacrifice
42:02had a life taken
42:04away protecting a
42:06friend
42:27in the uk a woman
42:30is killed by a
42:31man every three
42:32days in every
42:34tragic case i've
42:35looked at the
42:36killer states of
42:36mind were
42:38extremely complex
42:39and their actions
42:40can't just be
42:41attributed to what
42:42they watched on
42:43their phones or
42:44tv as we in the
42:46media suggest for
42:47the purposes of
42:48dramatic headlines
42:49but they all had
42:52something in common
42:53their violence was
42:55fueled by resentment
42:57and that is something
42:58that people and
42:59organizations i've met
43:00are trying to change
43:02many young men are
43:04being left behind in
43:05a world that doesn't
43:06offer them the same
43:07status as men had in
43:09previous generations
43:10yet they're still
43:12being told that being
43:13men makes them
43:15privileged and many
43:16don't feel that way
43:18changing how we talk
43:20about masculinity is
43:21important embracing
43:23it rather than
43:25demonizing it but
43:26at the same time
43:27trying to encourage
43:29boys and young men
43:30to leave behind this
43:32old-fashioned view of
43:33masculinity that can
43:35be harmful to them
43:36and those around
43:38them
44:02they're still
44:04talking to
44:05people in
44:05and
44:06know
44:08and
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