00:30Thank you very much for joining us on Euronews.
00:32Thank you very much.
00:34Minister, I just want to ask you about what we've been hearing over the past few days in relation to
00:38the war in Iran.
00:39It appears that the United States really wants Europe to get on side.
00:43Is that something that Finland can consider?
00:45Well, among the European allies, we're now assessing what could be kind of the role potentially.
00:53But this is not kind of a European or NATO war.
00:58That's obvious.
01:00But there's discussions on about this hormone trade challenge, how it's going to be solved.
01:08But still, among NATO, I think it's quite clear that NATO is not, as a NATO, it's not participating in
01:16that thing.
01:17OK, but let's say from a European perspective, because we heard from Secretary of State Marco Rubio on his way
01:23to the G7.
01:23He said, you know, Europe keeps saying this is not our war.
01:27Well, Ukraine isn't the United States war, but we're bringing it off the table there.
01:31So for how long can Europe stay outside it?
01:34And I don't just mean maybe being part of a coalition that discusses dealing with the Strait of Ormos when
01:39the war is over.
01:40I mean, they're calling for really being party to the conflict in some way.
01:44Well, I think from the Finnish perspective that we are a small country neighboring Russia.
01:49So all our resources are kind of involved into our readiness in this area.
01:55So there's no kind of options or potential for our participation anyhow.
02:01And what could Europe do, if anything?
02:04Because you're talking about a whole different sort of region and the different sort of topography to what obviously the
02:10Finns or other Baltic countries might be used to when it comes to dealing with the Russian threat.
02:15But did you see any way that Europeans could help in dealing with the Strait of Ormos in any way?
02:20Well, I think the bigger countries in Western Europe with big Navy powers, they are now doing this assessment now
02:27and that they are done some declarations.
02:30But from the Finnish point of view, we have got to use to operate in the Baltic Sea, which is
02:36quite shallow waters.
02:38And all our capabilities are kind of involved now in the Baltic century and the readiness operations, what we are
02:47doing in these areas.
02:49So we don't have any options kind of to change our principles in here, this area.
02:58But do you think that the Europeans can at least try to salvage or help the Americans at this time
03:04when the impact on Europe for the closure of the Strait of Ormos is actually quite big?
03:09I mean, it may be not Europe's war, but in effect it is.
03:13Of course, we know that the war is bringing a lot of impacts to Europe.
03:20And that's why several countries are now assessing that what is their potential to do something, not to involve in
03:26any war action, but maybe after the peace to some actions.
03:31And those are individual countries now, which are now assessing that.
03:37But from the Finnish point of view, I think that our main responsibility is the Russian border and the Baltic
03:43Sea.
03:43And we don't have any resources or capabilities to kind of change our focus.
03:48What we have heard over the past while is reports that military, crucial military equipment destined for Ukraine through the
03:55Pearl system, so paid for by Europe, but bought from the United States, could be diverted to Iran as the
04:01war grinds on there.
04:03And that makes a lot of sense, obviously, because the Americans are using so much, so many missiles, so many
04:08patriot defense systems.
04:09They're using up a lot of equipment as this war goes on.
04:13Are you concerned about that?
04:14Well, of course, we are now having this dialogue between NATO and other countries and the U.S. that what
04:20is the situation in that field.
04:22We have made arrangements also from Finnish perspective that we have participated one time in the Pearl.
04:28And what has promised to Ukraine has to go to Ukraine.
04:32That's clear.
04:33How do you check that?
04:34I mean, how do you ensure that that is the case?
04:36The United States holds the weapons.
04:39They're now in a hot conflict with Iran all across the region.
04:43And they might say, well, look, you know, that was then.
04:46You know, you purchased the stuff for Ukraine a few months ago.
04:49We're in a changed position now.
04:51Well, I think that the overall picture, what comes to the European defense industry, U.S. industry, Middle East and
05:00partners and Asian partners,
05:01that we have to everyone has to ramp up their defense industry capabilities and stocks, stock levels, because there can
05:08be these kind of cases in future also that there's two theater challenge where, for example, air defense capabilities are
05:18consumed in high speed.
05:20So, this is kind of the main notion of this thing and conclusion that the industrial capacity and stock levels
05:29has to be raised.
05:30But what happens now in the Middle East and in Ukraine, we have to keep in mind that Ukraine needs
05:38also air defense capabilities.
05:41And NATO General Secretary and SACR also has promised that this pearl package will be arranged such a way that
05:50it has been promised to us who is paying those pearl packages.
05:55So, we are trusting that.
05:56Yeah, you're just trusting it.
05:57But you're making calls to ensure that it happens, are you?
05:59Of course, of course.
06:01Every time we are assessing that how the money is being spent and we are trusting that the mechanism is
06:10working.
06:10Yeah.
06:11If there's problems, of course, then we have to reassess that.
06:14And one of the things that has happened over the past few weeks as a result of the Iran war
06:20is that the United States decided to take the sanctions off sanctioned Russian oil,
06:25meaning that Putin can now earn millions of dollars to prosecute his war against the Ukrainians and also be harmful
06:32to NATO.
06:33What's your response to that?
06:34All the countries are doing individual decisions.
06:37But let's be clear that Russia, last 20 years, Russia used all the oil revenues what they got from Europe
06:45to build up their military.
06:47And with that military, they attacked Ukraine and now threaten Europe.
06:51We paid that.
06:52So, let's be clear what's now happening.
06:56Russia is a big kind of oil company which have a huge military.
07:01So, without oil revenues or gas revenues, they don't be able anymore to do this, conducting this warfare.
07:09So, taking out the oil sanctions is like supporting the Russian war machine.
07:16So, and after the Ukrainian war, it's a similar situation.
07:20What inside NATO, we are now thinking that the Russia can be aggressive also after the Ukrainian war.
07:26And how the threat is developing dependence on the oil revenues.
07:32If you are taking out the sanctions immediately after peace or doing a peace deal where the sanctions are getting
07:38off
07:39and the Putin will get a huge amount of money fast, of course, the military reforms will speed up in
07:45Russia.
07:46And the threat is speeding up also.
07:49So, let's be clear on this.
07:51It's not a new thing.
07:53Soviet Union did that same thing.
07:55So, that's why these sanctions are vital for European security.
08:01So, what do you make of Donald Trump then, a NATO ally, putting NATO and Ukraine in greater harm's way?
08:07Well, these sanctions, it's a big part of the security policy against Russia.
08:14But not for the U.S. anymore?
08:16Well, I think the main challenge now inside NATO is how to ramp up fast the defense industry
08:24and the defense capabilities, of course.
08:26And we are at the same page with the U.S. in that field.
08:29But in the sanctions policy, we have to be clear that if we take out the sanctions,
08:34that will support the Russian economy and the Russian military in Ukraine war,
08:40but also speeding up the threat against NATO.
08:45So, this is a challenging kind of complex game.
08:50What do you think of the comments by Bart Deweyver, the Belgian prime minister,
08:53who said that we can no longer choke the Russian economy because the United States has removed the oil sanctions,
09:00and that now is the time to actually negotiate with Putin?
09:03Well, at least in Europe, everyone has to take seriously about the Russian military threat after Ukrainian war.
09:14And lifting the sanctions off will just speed up the threat.
09:19So, let's not be naive.
09:23The situation before the 2022 attack doesn't come back.
09:29Of course, we are trying to be diplomatic and friends with Russia,
09:33but let's be clear, they are in war footing, and they can be aggressive.
09:38And if we lift up the sanctions, the threat will speed up,
09:43and we will have, in the European defense perspective,
09:46we will have a bigger hurry to ramp up our own defenses.
09:52So, I'm a little bit cautious on that kind of file.
09:55To say the least, I'm sure.
09:57Yeah.
09:58And just before I let you go, there's another issue, obviously, going from an EU perspective,
10:02and that is the blockage by Hungary of the 90 billion euro loan for Ukraine.
10:08We've heard also, in addition to that, from Peter Ziartou, the Hungarian foreign affairs minister,
10:14that he regularly speaks to the Kremlin after a European Council meeting.
10:19Well, they are kind of supporting the wrong side of the war in that kind of action.
10:25So, everyone has to understand that Russia is not only a threat for Ukraine.
10:31They can be a severe threat for European Union members.
10:35And that's why this kind of politics, what Hungary is now conducting,
10:41it's supporting only the Russian side.
10:44So, and these new things that have occurred now in media,
10:49that they are giving information to Russia, they are really severe.
10:53Okay, final question, Minister Antti Hakkinen,
10:56because your constituency here in Finland is the Russian border.
11:00Can you talk to people who are, let's say, geographically removed from that,
11:04maybe people in Ireland or the UK,
11:06to understand what it's like to live so close to Russia with a border of 1,350 kilometers,
11:12and what you experience, let's say, from a cyber threat or just daily threats,
11:17and why it's important that there is so much concentration in this area?
11:20Well, in my home region, Russia is not a new neighbor.
11:25We have neighbored them for hundreds of years,
11:27and they have been a little bit surprising or aggressive neighbor all the time.
11:34So, we have get to use it.
11:35That's why Finland has a strong defense
11:37and also a strong comprehensive security model to counter hyper threats.
11:42So, that's why people are taking this quite cool and calm,
11:45but they still know that we have to invest heavily into defense.
11:49Okay, Minister for Defense for Finland, Antti Hakkinen,
11:52thank you very much for joining us on Euronews.
11:54Thank you very much.
11:55Thank you very much.
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