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Gardening Australia Season 37 Episode 7
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00:05Hey!
00:06Hey! Hi!
00:11Whoa!
00:17Hey!
00:18Hello?
00:20Hey, mate.
00:22Hey!
00:24Hey!
00:25Hey!
00:27Hey!
00:34Surrounded by plants, where else would we rather be?
00:38We've got a garden bed full of goodness for you this week,
00:43so let's dig in.
00:44Welcome to Gardening Australia.
00:46Here's what's coming up.
00:50Guest presenter Tan checks out a fruit with a taste like no other.
00:55They definitely have a sour tang and a lot of sweetness.
00:58I love them.
00:59I'm reconnecting with a bush food expert who we've featured before.
01:03Now, always make sure that, you know, the information is shared
01:06before you start eating and picking things in the bush,
01:09just to make sure that we can actually eat it.
01:11Her life has changed dramatically,
01:13and her garden has never been more important to her.
01:17Autumn is such a great time to get busy in the garden,
01:21and I'm going to give you my top jobs to do this weekend
01:23to ensure that your future is delicious.
01:27And Wollongong Botanic Garden is home
01:29to a recently donated collection of cycads.
01:32I'll be finding out what it takes to transplant
01:34these endangered prehistoric masterpieces to their new home
01:38and how to look after them.
01:46As gardeners, we all know how refreshing it can be
01:50to take a breather in the shade of a tree on a hot day.
01:54Well, Adelaide certainly has its fair share of hot days,
01:59so Sophie's checking out a garden that's got it made in the shade.
02:10I love a plant-filled cottage-style garden,
02:14and this one in the eastern suburbs of Adelaide is a real haven.
02:22It doesn't just look good.
02:24Owner Deb Worthley's house and garden
02:26have been designed to deal with Adelaide's harsh heat.
02:29For her, it's all about sustainability.
02:33I lived in a house before that couldn't be made sustainable,
02:37and I wanted to build a straw bough house,
02:39so the walls are 500 millimetres thick,
02:43and the good thing about it is that when I'm dead and gone
02:47and the house is being knocked down,
02:49the walls can be put onto the garden and just composted.
02:54Truly recyclable.
02:55Truly recyclable.
02:56Compostable.
02:57Yes, compostable, absolutely.
02:59People often build a sustainable house, as in the building,
03:04but they forget that the garden helps with the house's sustainability.
03:08Yes.
03:09Well, obviously, the trees shade the house,
03:12so that is going to lead to a cooler inside of the house as well.
03:17When I first came here, there weren't any trees at all,
03:21so it was gradual, but gradually the shade came,
03:25and it's made a lot of difference to living in the house.
03:36You've got your beautiful crabapple.
03:37Yes.
03:37You call this Crabapple Cottage.
03:39Yes.
03:39But these magnificent weeping elms.
03:42Yes.
03:42They are lovely.
03:43They are lovely.
03:44Great for shade, and I just love the shade.
03:46In fact, I like them better in winter.
03:48Really?
03:49Yeah, because of the architectural.
03:51They look very graceful and pretty.
03:54Yeah.
03:54They do.
03:55And you've got a beautiful weeping mulberry too.
03:57Yes.
03:57That's a bit harder to look after.
03:59It wants to grow so much.
04:05Tell me about this tree.
04:07Oh, my lovely southward dancer, pear tree.
04:11Mm.
04:11Yeah, it's fantastic.
04:12It gives beautiful shade.
04:15And you can feel the temperature drop once we get here.
04:17I can, yeah.
04:18So this is the north side of your house.
04:20It is.
04:20So it could be quite hot.
04:21Yes.
04:22You've got white leaves and just a few of trees.
04:23Yes, exactly.
04:24And it was a lot warmer before the trees grew.
04:28And they offer beauty as well.
04:30And this area of the garden has a lovely, tranquil feel.
04:34It has.
04:35I'm glad you feel that way, because I definitely feel that way.
04:38And I think it's possibly the shade and the colour scheme I've chosen,
04:42of the green and white.
04:43So it's very restful, I feel.
04:46And you've got the beautiful water feature, too, that you look out onto.
04:49I do, yeah.
05:00The shade features continue into the backyard.
05:04Wow.
05:05I just love the way you've trained your weeping elms over your pergola.
05:10I know.
05:10It's worked out really well, actually.
05:12And I thought, well, why not have that instead of any vines that you have to keep pruning?
05:16Why not just train the branches over the top?
05:18And it's really half covered it in a season.
05:21So it's done well.
05:23And, of course, these are deciduous again.
05:26Yes.
05:26So they let winter sun in.
05:28Yes.
05:28But summer shade.
05:29Yeah.
05:30Don't we all want that?
05:31Shade in the baking heat and lovely warming sun in the winter.
05:35And a big part of Deb living sustainably is growing her own food, which includes an abundance
05:42of fruit trees, providing both shade and produce.
05:46Yeah, I've got 13 fruit trees.
05:48It's really nice having all the different fruit to pop out and get a lemon when you need
05:53one and share with the neighbours and have an orange a day.
05:58It's got to keep me healthy.
05:59Absolutely.
06:00And definitely, you know, if we're talking about sustainability, growing at least part
06:04of your own fruit.
06:05Yeah.
06:05Well, it saves the petrol.
06:07It does.
06:07Going down the shops and getting them.
06:09Let alone the food miles in the produce.
06:11Yes.
06:11Absolutely.
06:12Now, tell me about this one.
06:14I'll start with my mother.
06:16She used to make poor man's orange marmalade.
06:18So when I moved here, I really wanted to get a poor man's orange tree.
06:22And they're quite difficult to find because not many people make marmalade these days.
06:27It's got quite a lot of pith, doesn't it?
06:30Yes, it has, which is great for making marmalade because pith has a lot of pectin in it
06:35and that's the setting agent.
06:36It was explained to me that it's actually a New Zealand grapefruit.
06:39It grows in New Zealand where it's a lot colder.
06:42So I found one and planted it and it's going really well and I make marmalade every winter.
06:50You're actually an award-winning preserver.
06:53Yes, I am.
06:55Well, I used to enter the Australian marmalade competition.
06:58I didn't become grand champion, but I became a runner-up or third or something.
07:04I was really happy with that.
07:05That's fantastic.
07:06But you don't just grow fruit trees, do you?
07:10Oh no, I grow vegetables too.
07:13Various types depending on the season, but I put in a few strawberry plants one year
07:19and they've actually grown like triffids and they're taking over the veggie garden.
07:24I've managed to pick 23 kilos this year.
07:29Wow.
07:30And made lots of strawberry jam, which is really nice and they're beautiful to eat.
07:35They're soft and they're not like boiled ones.
07:38No, with real flavour.
07:39Yeah, with real flavour.
07:49Every available corner is cultivated, including the front verge.
07:54The roses were the first to go in because I couldn't have any roses at my old house.
07:59So I was really looking forward to having a bit more sun and it's enjoyable and the neighbours seem to
08:04love it.
08:05They like looking at it as they're walking past.
08:07They have comments sometimes, which is really nice to make other people happy.
08:12And you've planted in front of your neighbour's house too?
08:15Yeah, just to save them having to do it because they're a busy young couple.
08:19And you found out they love lavender, so you encourage them?
08:23Yes, yes.
08:23I have lavender coming up in my footpath all the time.
08:26So I said, please come and help yourself if you want any more.
08:30It's good to have freebies from the garden that you don't have to buy.
08:34And I love the vincas.
08:35Now, vincas are an old fashioned annual.
08:37They're sort of like an impatience, but they're really hardy and they love the heat.
08:42Yeah.
08:42And that's exactly why I chose them.
08:44Set and forget.
08:45I mean, they do get watered, don't worry.
08:47And I do mulch everything, so.
08:55Deb's pretty and productive patch proves that even in the heart of suburbia, you can cultivate a cooling, sustainable life.
09:11I get so much joy being out in the garden, even just seeing the occasional frog or some interesting insect.
09:19If you're not out in the garden all the time, you don't see those sort of things.
09:33I'd like to introduce you to naranjia.
09:36This is a relative of the tomato and it comes from northern South America.
09:42Now, the fruit look lovely and they're delicious and juicy, but very tart.
09:48So, what I like to do is to use the juice with things like beetroot and celery and apple, and
09:55it gives it a little bit of an extra zing.
09:57It's an easy to grow plant, fruits when it's in its first year, and it loves growing in a warm
10:04climate, but it must have good drainage and compost rich soil.
10:09Bees love it.
10:10It's a lovely fresh vegetable to try in a garden.
10:15Why do trees seem to grow taller in some places than others?
10:20To get this tall, this black butt needed light water and nutrients.
10:24But to reach its full potential, it needed something else, soil depth.
10:29Here in Sydney's Pennant Hills are some of the deepest soils on the eastern seaboard.
10:35These deep, fertile clay soils have plenty of water and nutrients, and also allow better root stability.
10:43So, what created these deep, fertile soils?
10:46It's geology and topography.
10:49Gullies tend to have greater soil depth than ridges.
10:51But some places have greater soil depth because of millions and millions of years of slow geological forces.
11:00What's a good structure to prune your backyard fruit trees into?
11:03I'm a big fan of the open vase shape, which means you get good sun access, air circulation,
11:09and it's easier to harvest your fruit later on.
11:12You need a minimum of three leader branches for this and a maximum of around five.
11:18I also like to make sure there's around half a metre between the ground and the first leader branch.
11:23This gives good air circulation and allows the space to grow a low growing ground cover if you like.
11:37Tarn the fruit nerd Truong has been taking us on a tour of tasty treasures to help us expand our
11:45fruit horizons.
11:46Today, he's giving us the inside scoop on a fruit that's definitely got its own thing going on.
11:54It's been a childhood favourite of mine, and pomegranate, it's not you.
12:09I'm at the foot of the picturesque Glasshouse Mountains, about an hour north of Brisbane.
12:14It's not only a beautiful part of the world, but it's home to a variety of gorgeous locally grown produce.
12:22Coffee, tea, macadamias, and of course pineapples are all farmed commercially in this little slice of subtropical paradise.
12:30But today, we're here to find out more about a lesser known crop, the custard apple.
12:37Daniel Jackson bought this farm ten years ago with his wife Angela, despite having no farming background.
12:44Yeah, so I was originally a Sparky, but I'd always wanted to farm.
12:48We had intentions of buying a macadamia farm.
12:51We'd come across this one a couple of days before auction that had macadamias on it.
12:54And yeah, lo and behold, we got it at auction and here we are.
12:58While the 100-acre property certainly does have a macadamia plantation,
13:03Daniel discovered after purchase that the majority of the farm is dedicated to a fruit he'd never heard of.
13:09We had no experience in custard apples.
13:11I didn't know what they looked like.
13:13I didn't know what flavour they had. I didn't know how to grow them.
13:16So it wasn't until we moved in and we started pruning for the first year that I actually had an
13:21idea of what a custard apple even looked like.
13:24Wow.
13:24Yeah.
13:25And how did you learn how to farm custard apples?
13:27Look, we joined the industry association who were fantastic and provided support the whole time.
13:34There's a farmer just down the road from us that had been farming for nearly 40 years.
13:37He came over and showed us how to pick and when fruit was ready.
13:41It was a steep learning curve, but it was learning on the run.
13:44And the student has become the master.
13:47Maybe not.
13:51So how much of your land is dedicated to custard apples?
13:53We have approximately eight hectares planted to custard apples across a variety of vase and trellis trees.
13:59It's equivalent of two and a half thousand trees, which we produce about 80 tonne of fruit per season.
14:05That'll keep you busy.
14:06It does, yeah. That's for sure.
14:10Custard apple trees are fast growing, woody, dense and semi-deciduous with a spreading form.
14:16Or can grow into a large shrub around six metres tall.
14:20And their edible fruit is like no other.
14:23They're a sweet tropical flavour.
14:26They have a creamy flesh, soft and mushy.
14:29Yeah.
14:30The famous American writer Mark Twain did say that custard apples are the most delicious fruit in the world.
14:35Let's give them a try.
14:39Mmm.
14:40Texturally, they're such a unique fruit.
14:42But in terms of flavour, they definitely have a sour tang and a lot of sweetness.
14:47I love them.
14:53What Australians know as a custard apple is a unique cross between two species.
14:58The cherry moya and the sweet sop, or sugar apple.
15:01Both of these separate species are widely grown overseas.
15:05And the fruit is prized in Southeast Asia.
15:11And so tell me what's involved with harvesting custard apples.
15:14They're very labour intensive, extremely.
15:17So we pick the farm twice a week, which means you go around and inspect every tree, all 2,500
15:22of them.
15:22You're looking for the right colour fruit or ripeness of fruit.
15:26And you hand pick, put it in the trailer, hand wash, hand grate, hand pack.
15:30So it's very labour intensive.
15:31For a gardener, that's probably a really good thing, because they're not going to want to eat fruit all in
15:36one or two weeks, right?
15:38No, that's exactly right.
15:39You might go back for eight to ten weeks and pick two or three bits of fruit a week.
15:43Yeah, as they ripen on the tree.
15:45If you pick them too early, they'll never ripen.
15:47They'll just go black and hard.
15:49We process them daily.
15:50So they come in, we wash and grade them, get the core temperature down to around 10 degrees to maintain
15:55shelf life.
15:57They're packed the next day onto a truck and truck to Brisbane, Sydney, Melbourne, even Adelaide and Perth.
16:04So what takes most of your time with these trees?
16:06Pruning takes most of the time, trying to control the vigour.
16:09We like to keep them at about two metres, just so we don't have to pick from ladders.
16:13We can pick from the ground.
16:14Gotcha.
16:15But we'll continuously prune.
16:17We'll find water shoots and you're taking out water shoots to open up the centre of the tree.
16:22We also come and strip and tip throughout the season to promote more.
16:26So you'll take leaves off, that promotes flowering.
16:29But yeah, pruning is our biggest job.
16:31You know, it's eight people for, you know, four to six weeks a year.
16:36Wow.
16:36Once they're pruned, we rake them out, all the prunings, to the middle of the row and mulch them up,
16:41just trying to prevent disease.
16:43Yeah, so it's a massive job.
16:44Wow.
16:45That's a lot of work.
16:47How do you deal with pests and disease?
16:49They have perfect hidey holes for pests to sit in.
16:52So they're prone to fungal diseases like anthracnose.
16:56We get root rot if it's a wet season or bacterial wilt.
16:59But yeah, those little crevices are perfect for citrus mealybug to hide,
17:03which is one of the biggest pests in the industry.
17:05We've had some problems with them in the past, but we now introduce beneficial bugs.
17:09So we actually buy farmed bugs and release them to control the bad bugs.
17:13So we buy green lacewings and cryptolemus.
17:16And through that, we've managed to reduce all of our pesticide sprays for that insect.
17:23Custard apple is a common name that can refer to six different species of plant,
17:27most of which are in the Anonor genus, hailing from Central and South America.
17:33In Australia, there are two main cultivars in production.
17:36The first is African Pride and the second is Pink's Mammoth variety.
17:41Pink's Mammoth variety probably makes up the majority of the industry.
17:45Within the Pink's Mammoth, you have KJ Pink's, which is an industry standard,
17:48and you have the Hillary White.
17:51The main difference between the two is the KJ Pink is a self-pollinating fruit,
17:56which means you don't have to go and hand pollinate.
17:59It sets a consistent crop year on year.
18:02The Hillary White, you have to hand pollinate.
18:04You will get some self-pollination, but it is hit and miss.
18:07The payoff for that, though, is you get this much bigger, beautiful fruit,
18:11specifically made for an export market.
18:14I would definitely recommend the KJ for a backyard grower.
18:17Yeah.
18:18If you're a person who loves fiddling with plants and seeing an end result,
18:21you could go with a Hillary White or Pink's Mammoth variety.
18:24Fantastic.
18:25If you want to enjoy some tropical flavoured custard at your place,
18:29Daniel says growing them at home is fairly easy,
18:31provided you're in the right climate.
18:34They're a subtropical tree, so they won't fruit or flower below 4 degrees,
18:38but there is small pockets grown in the South Australian-Victorian border,
18:43just north of Perth as well.
18:44So you could expect to grow them in places like Sydney as a backyard tree,
18:49as long as it's sunny, well-protected, north-facing.
18:53But it's important to remember they're a subtropical tree.
18:56And so how do you manage the tree as a home gardener?
18:59Look, they're a very vigorous tree, so you want to manage height.
19:03So we give them three good prunes a year, a major one in autumn,
19:08in which we'll take the tops out and we'll cut some big major branches out of them.
19:12We do another one in November, which will do the skirts.
19:16You want to keep the skirts off the ground to prevent pests and disease.
19:19And you'll probably come back through in late December, January,
19:23and be cutting water shoots.
19:24You might have water shoots coming up through the centre of the tree,
19:26just to keep the vase open.
19:28So you'd spend quite a bit of time every session.
19:30So if you're a back yarder, you'd expect about two hours to prune this whole tree.
19:34And so what about fertiliser use?
19:36You don't want to give them too much, so it's a lot of micro feeds.
19:39I'd probably recommend a good compost,
19:42and then even just a couple of small doses of chook poo throughout the year.
19:49So you're also trialling some new varieties with really interesting attributes on your farm.
19:53Yeah, so this is a red one that's been in the program for a few years now.
19:56It's still a couple of years away from commercial release.
19:59It's a self-pollinator as well, which makes it easier to grow.
20:03In saying it's a self-pollinator, it definitely doesn't set as much fruit as a KJ would.
20:08It's a bit of a different flavour profile to a KJ.
20:11It's less sweet, which we think might appeal to a broader base.
20:14Well, I can't wait to try it when it comes out,
20:16but that colour is visually stunning.
20:18It's beautiful.
20:20Now, as the fruit nerd, the most important thing for me
20:23is to ensure that Australians are eating great tasting fruit.
20:26Now, as a gardener or as a consumer,
20:28how can they identify a good eating custard apple?
20:32You're looking for the same thing on the tree and into the supermarket.
20:35Firstly, you look for a change in colour.
20:37We've got a lightness of the skin here,
20:40so it's gone to a lighter shade of green and some yellowing.
20:42Yep.
20:43We're looking for the carpels, which are these lumpy parts, to have smoothed out.
20:47And you can even look for, like, sort of stretch marks here in the fruit.
20:50And how do we know when to eat it?
20:52You definitely don't want to put them in the fridge.
20:54You don't want them under 8 degrees because they will get chill injury.
20:57Three to five days at room temperature.
20:59They'll become soft to touch.
21:01You can literally tear them apart and scoop them out.
21:03Fantastic tips.
21:05Daniel is very keen to get the word out about this relatively niche fruit,
21:10which he's grown to love.
21:12From having no experience with them whatsoever,
21:14I've just enjoyed growing them,
21:16the journey of learning how to grow a good piece of fruit.
21:18And I'd just like other Australians to experience them,
21:21enjoy them as I have.
21:24I don't think I've ever worked so hard in my life.
21:27It's through the heat, through the rain,
21:29my wife keeps reminding me,
21:31we thought you bought this place with a lifestyle.
21:33We're still waiting to see what that lifestyle is.
21:49When it comes to growing herbs,
21:51I basically want to grow all of them all the time.
21:53But sometimes you have to preserve them
21:55so you can eat them year round.
21:58Often I'll dry them and store them in a nice glass jar,
22:01but I love mixing it up,
22:03including using your ice trays and freezing them.
22:09The kitchen smells incredible from the mint that I've just harvested.
22:12So I'm going to lock in as much of that delicious flavour as possible.
22:18Chop or whiz the mint up until you're happy with the consistency
22:21and then fill the trays with it.
22:28Fill it up with some water.
22:33And now that one's done.
22:35It's time for the basil.
22:39I'm chopping it up, but I reckon by whizzing it up,
22:42you could probably cram in more into the ice trays.
22:44So keep that in mind.
22:47This time round, I'm actually going to fill up the ice trays with olive oil.
22:51So when it comes time to making a pizza sauce or a pasta sauce,
22:56you can just pop out your little basil olive oil flavour bomb
22:59and have a quick head start into your cooking.
23:03This method is also great for other kinds of seasonal herbs,
23:07including coriander and chives.
23:11I've got some that I've already frozen.
23:13I just store them in a glass jar in the freezer.
23:18For herbs that are frozen in water, you can thaw them as needed
23:21and drain off the melted water.
23:23Or pop the whole cube into a drink or soup.
23:28I always love having my minty ice cubes on hand
23:30so I can have summer goodness any time, including winter.
23:42Josh is catching up with an old friend
23:45who's been on a healing journey since they last met
23:49and plants are playing a vital role
23:52in helping her overcome some huge challenges.
24:05I met bush food expert Marissa Verma
24:08during a previous Gardening Australia story.
24:11I wanted to show you one of my faves,
24:13which is actually wonal, which is the peppermint tree.
24:15Marissa shared some of the knowledge of her people,
24:18the Noongar Nation, with us,
24:20particularly how fauna and flora of the Perth region
24:23changes across the six seasons of the local calendar.
24:27So if you're inhaling that, it actually clears the sinuses
24:30and the sore throat.
24:32Yeah, and you can put this in your pillow slip today
24:35and have a really good sleep.
24:37But since then, Marissa's circumstances have changed
24:40in a way that quite frankly is staggering.
24:51It was about June 2023.
24:54I wasn't feeling the best.
24:55I didn't really know about what happened to me
24:58until when I got out of ICU.
25:01They told me I had necrotising fasciitis,
25:04which is a flesh-eating disease.
25:07The main concern was actually trying to stop it
25:09before it got to my organs.
25:12While I was under, it had started to affect my body parts,
25:17so my hands started to turn black.
25:19I had to get my hands amputated to save my life.
25:26With the medical profession looking after Marissa's physical recovery,
25:31restoring her spirit was something her old friend Carol Innes took on.
25:39I've known Marissa a couple of decades now.
25:42She set out on her business in promoting cultural tourism,
25:46so she's had a huge influence in that period of time.
25:51Our journey has always been together and supporting her.
25:56What did you anticipate her needs would be as part of her recovery?
26:00The recovery was a long time, nearly a year for the hospital.
26:05And then we realised she was going to be losing her tools,
26:10her hands for her business and her livelihood.
26:13She loved being on country and she needed a place to heal
26:17that can bring that back.
26:18And I think knowing her and her love of country
26:22is that we needed to bring something back for her here.
26:27It just makes you want to eat it straight away.
26:30A Nullar cultural consultant
26:31who has worked on a number of Perth's civil construction projects,
26:36Carol looked to her network for ideas and support.
26:40And one of her clients stepped up.
26:43Landscape architect Natalie Bush.
26:46Looking really good, so...
26:48What happens to this one over here?
26:49You've got the macadamia tree.
26:51That's the macadamia.
26:51Well, Carol called and said,
26:54Nat, we need to build Marissa a garden.
26:57Here's her address.
26:59And I had never had the pleasure of meeting Marissa,
27:02but I've worked with Carol for a really long time.
27:05And I knew when Carol asked for something,
27:07we had to make it happen.
27:09We have a Design for Good program
27:12built into our work,
27:15which means that we can volunteer time and resources
27:18to design places that align with our values
27:23and what our people want to do.
27:25We created the vision, but we put the call out
27:28to paving contractors, plant suppliers,
27:32and they were the ones that really brought the labour
27:36and the materials and made it happen.
27:39We were just project managers.
27:41What are some of the key design features that you feel are so important
27:45to support Marissa in her recovery?
27:48So it was really important to create easy pathways for her to navigate around the garden
27:54and seeing her come out and zip around so confidently with her walker,
27:59once we had new paths, was quite fundamental.
28:02And then we just filled it with bush foods, which we knew were so important to her healing.
28:10And yeah, really were led by Marissa as to what would make her feel better.
28:18What was it like to have so much support rally around you?
28:23Oh, just phenomenal.
28:24I was pinching myself all the time thinking,
28:28wow, there's like really good-hearted people that want to do good things.
28:33One of the things I think I am unable to do is get to the bush until I'm ready.
28:38So I think the idea was to get the bush to me.
28:46I wanted to focus on bush healing plants and bush foods.
28:50So that was the thing that I wanted.
28:52And I wanted plants that I'll be able to show my friends and family
28:57and actually use as well.
28:58So we've got like a little bit of a herb garden
29:00where we're going to be using some of those herbs for, you know, cooking and things like that as well.
29:05I've got lemon myrtle, which is one of my favourites.
29:10I've got river mint.
29:13I've got samphire.
29:16I've got these beautiful grass trees, balgers.
29:21And the kangaroo paws just give colour to the garden.
29:28I love it. I'm in the garden every day.
29:31And then they're smiling at me, you know, these beautiful colours as I walk through the garden.
29:35So, you know, all my senses come alive when I'm in the garden.
29:42Do you think it's part of the healing process?
29:44Oh, definitely.
29:45I think with everything, the birds chirping and I'm listening to them,
29:49the air that I'm breathing, I'm smelling the air from the flowers.
29:54So it's definitely healing.
29:56Yeah.
30:00Still to come on Gardening Australia,
30:03Clarence meets some ancient plants in a new home.
30:07We meet an academic transforming urban green spaces.
30:12And all the gardening jobs you need this weekend.
30:23Don't let the dropping temperatures fool you.
30:26It's go time in the garden.
30:29And Millie's here with her seasonal set list.
30:36Autumn really is one of the most beautiful times to be out in the garden,
30:41but it's also one of the most important.
30:43The work you do now will pay dividends for months to come.
30:47And one of the most important jobs that I do at this time of the year is save seed.
30:52Now this tomato was gifted to me and it has been such a winner for the garden.
30:57You can see these are actually small fruit.
30:59They get absolutely huge.
31:01And even though it's looking a bit ratty,
31:02it is still producing when all the other tomato varieties are finished.
31:06So I know that this is one that I want to grow again.
31:09I need to save seed and I'm going to show you how.
31:13You can see how beautiful this fruit is.
31:16It is absolutely delicious.
31:18I picked this one a few days ago.
31:20It's not fully ripe yet.
31:21So I'm not going to use this to save seed.
31:23I'm going to use this ripe one.
31:24And it's a really simple process to do.
31:27And you could just squish it out onto a piece of paper,
31:29but I've had a lot of diseases in my tomatoes over the last few years.
31:33And so I'm going to take this extra step.
31:37First thing you need to do, open the tomato up.
31:39You can see this one doesn't actually have a lot of seed,
31:41but I'm going to chase it all and scoop it out into the bowl.
31:50I'm going to cut that again.
31:52You can still use the flesh for pizza.
31:59Once you've got your pulp, you add a little bit of water.
32:02I go about twice as much.
32:04And then you need to take this, put it in a warm spot,
32:07anywhere from a few days to about a week.
32:10You want it to ferment.
32:11It doesn't matter if it actually gets quite discoloured
32:14because that process, that fermenting,
32:17is much like what would happen in the forest.
32:19When the fruit falls from a plant and starts to rot down,
32:23it goes through that natural fermentation
32:25and that helps to break down that little sack of gel
32:28that's around a tomato seed,
32:30which can contain a lot of inhibitors to germination,
32:32but it can also carry a bit of disease.
32:34So by doing this, you're able to really clean that seed.
32:38I'm going to pop that in a warm spot
32:40and I'll show you one I prepared earlier.
32:48You can see this is a little bit worse for wear.
32:51It's really cloudy.
32:52It's been fermenting away on a windowsill.
32:54It's been doing it for a few days.
32:56You actually need to clean the seed further
32:58and you just do that with a sieve.
33:02A bit of water.
33:06You really want to get all of that flesh off,
33:08all of the sacks off
33:09and strip it back to pure seed.
33:14Just gently.
33:22Just spreading them out to make sure
33:25they'll dry nice and evenly
33:27and don't forget to label them.
33:37I'm going to pop them in a nice warm spot
33:39to fully dry on the paper.
33:41Put it in your seed store
33:42and they'll be ready to sow next spring.
33:47Another seed that I really want to save
33:50is this beautiful paper daisy.
33:52It's been so strong and flowering its head off
33:55and it's a total bug magnet.
33:57So I really want to plant hundreds of them next year.
33:59You can see like all daisies,
34:02they have a really simple little structure
34:04and they're easy to save.
34:05This one here, you can see that central area.
34:07That's where the actual flower is.
34:09There's hundreds if not thousands of them
34:10in that little disc.
34:12As they get pollinated and start to form seed,
34:15they start to swell.
34:16You can hear it's not quite ready this one,
34:18but this disc here,
34:21as those seeds form,
34:23they get these great little dispersal devices.
34:26They're called a pappus,
34:27like a parachute
34:28and the seed is at the base of it.
34:31That whole head is nearly ripe.
34:33You can snip that whole thing
34:35and just put it straight into your bag
34:38and those seeds will ripen and dry in there.
34:41And then this one,
34:42you can see they're all about to lift off.
34:44You can just scrape it
34:46and put it straight in the bag
34:47and that's going to give you heaps of seed
34:49for the next season.
34:54One thing about autumn,
34:56it's really a great time to prepare soil.
35:00Over summer, as that soil dries out,
35:02you find that the life in the soil
35:03can disappear a little bit as well.
35:05They need moisture to thrive.
35:06So as soon as you get that autumn rain,
35:08it's a great time to put a light top dressing
35:11of compost on your garden beds
35:12or start to prepare a new garden bed completely.
35:15Now you can see here,
35:17I'm working my way out across the lawn
35:19and I'm doing it with a really simple method.
35:22This is just big sheets,
35:24big thick sheets of cardboard
35:25on top of the lawn with fertiliser,
35:28some chook manure,
35:29I've got some straw,
35:31I've got lots of garden waste and wood chips.
35:33And essentially,
35:34I'm just building a compost on top of the lawn.
35:36It'll help to weaken and smother the grass below
35:39and all of those soil organisms can access it
35:43and help to break it down.
35:44It's a really simple way to improve the ground below
35:47and make a new garden bed on top.
35:52Like any compost,
35:54keep the pile moist
35:55and a regular liquid feed will help push things along.
36:06One of the jobs that you've got to get done at this time of the year is planting.
36:11And it's a great time to get garlic in the ground.
36:14Don't wait until winter, autumn is perfect.
36:17And so I've already prepared these cloves for planting.
36:20I broke apart the bulb last night and I've soaked them in water.
36:23And you can see the roots are already starting to shoot out of this clove.
36:28It's absolutely raring to get in the ground.
36:30Planting them, it's super simple.
36:33You just poke a hole in the ground about a couple of knuckles deep,
36:36drop them in, cover them up and watch them grow.
36:41You know, rain, hail, snow, I'm out here in the garden.
36:46But this time of the year is absolute perfection.
36:50A little bit of work now means you will have a beautiful and bountiful patch for months to come.
36:55So get out there and enjoy autumn.
37:06Well, we're off to the Wollongong Botanic Gardens now
37:10where Clarence is checking out a new collection of plants
37:13that confirms the old adage
37:16some things just get better as they age.
37:19Including you, Clarence.
37:26Cicads are great survivors.
37:29They're one of the earliest seed-bearing plants dating back to the Jurassic.
37:33They can live for hundreds of years, if not up to a thousand years.
37:37Now, here at the Wollongong Botanic Gardens,
37:40they've been creating their own Cicad display for all to see,
37:43thanks to the donations from Aussie collectors.
37:48It's a project that's taken two years
37:50and I'm meeting curator Felicity Scoburn
37:52to find out what it takes to make these ancient beauties a new home.
37:56Look, the plants are architectural marvels.
37:59They're so beautiful to look at
38:00and who wouldn't want them in their space, right?
38:02But they also have a unique set of horticultural requirements
38:06to make sure that they stay healthy.
38:08So drainage being a key one,
38:10they really need to be in a really free-draining sunny spot
38:13in order to live and thrive.
38:15Like any garden, preparation is key.
38:17Absolutely.
38:18The engineering involved for this was quite significant,
38:22just in terms of making sure the water moved away from the site.
38:25So we put a curb at the front of the garden
38:27and then we put in a 300mm drainage layer,
38:31your geotextile fabric layer, the soil layer.
38:33Then we put the Cicad root ball onto the soil layer
38:36and built up around the root ball.
38:38So that's where you can see the beautiful undulation occurring
38:41is actually the root balls you can actually see above ground.
38:45And the only water they get is from the sky.
38:47They take what they need and then the water moves on.
38:50Getting these guys into place was really interesting.
38:53We had about a team of eight using predominantly forklifts.
38:59It was manoeuvred into place,
39:02positioned facing the right direction.
39:04And not only will these Cicads look good in the short term,
39:08but in the long term that they'll have the space to grow that they need
39:10because most of them are going to at least triple in size in their lifetime.
39:14These particular Cicads, these were part of a personal collection?
39:17Yes, the main part of the collection was from a lovely family,
39:22the Edwards family.
39:23They really wanted their Cicads to go somewhere special.
39:25We had the space, we had the capability to look after them
39:29and make sure that they were going to survive.
39:31Colin's director of the International Palm Society.
39:34Knowing the Edwards family for years,
39:36he was keen to bring their collection to the botanic gardens.
39:39A lot of them are 40, 50 years old.
39:41A lot of them are critically endangered and being wiped out in the habitat,
39:45so they're disappearing quickly.
39:47So this is an extremely important collection.
39:49We've got about 35 species here from the Edwards collection.
39:52They travelled all over Asia, South America,
39:55so they would get stuff sent to them
39:58because people like to share seed with people they know can grow them,
40:02so that these things can survive.
40:03And Cicads are quite ancient.
40:06They've been around for a long time.
40:08They certainly are, about 330 million years.
40:10All the African Cicads evolved from the Cicads that are in Australia,
40:15the original ones.
40:16And so did all the ones in Asia and South America.
40:19Shall we take a closer look at the collection?
40:21That's a good idea.
40:22Nice.
40:25This is a fantastic specimen.
40:27It certainly is.
40:28An Cephalus clavoi from Tanzania.
40:31It's a fantastic architectural-looking plant,
40:33but more importantly,
40:35why it's important to be in this collection,
40:36there's only 30 left in the wild,
40:38and we never know whether they're going to be male or female.
40:42They'll require male or female to reproduce.
40:44All Cicads are dioecious.
40:46It's listed on the international database
40:47so that the pollen can be shared with other botanic institutions
40:51for its survival long-term.
40:53So 30 in the wild, that'd be critically endangered.
40:56That's right at the top, yeah?
40:57Yeah, it could disappear altogether,
40:59become extinct in the wild any time.
41:01And with only 30 of these in the wild,
41:03there's no guarantee that you're always going to have
41:05a mix of male and female.
41:06Well, sometimes you can just have all female or all male
41:08and it's all over.
41:09Yeah, well.
41:10So that's what's happened with other plants,
41:12and that's what happened.
41:13And the form, as you walk through this collection,
41:16there's so much difference between species and genus.
41:21It's a really interesting form here.
41:23This thing looks like a date palm.
41:24It's a Sycas titanensis.
41:26It's from Taiwan.
41:28And this one's 43 years old.
41:30This particular Sycad's creating new leaves.
41:33That's why you see one side of it with the leaves hanging down,
41:35the others have still got leaves that are erect.
41:38But as the new leaves come out,
41:40the other ones sag down to create room.
41:42What is the difference between a palm and a Sycad?
41:44Well, Sycad's leaves unfurled like a fern,
41:47because they evolved from ferns.
41:49Whereas a palm has a spike, it becomes just one spike.
41:53And this one beside it, that, again,
41:56you'd be mistaken for thinking that's a fern.
41:58Well, that's a Ceratizamia robusta from Mexico.
42:02Ceratizamia genus is the toughest of all Sycad species.
42:06So this particular genus is the world's greatest survivor,
42:10just about.
42:11It is amazing.
42:12They've survived ice ages.
42:14They've survived volcanoes.
42:15They've fought for black winters.
42:17They even survived the meteor showers that killed the dinosaurs.
42:19They survived everything.
42:27This is a nice little patch.
42:28There's a few different species in here.
42:29Yeah, there's three different types of species,
42:31and they're all really good.
42:32This one here is the Stangeria aeropolis.
42:35It's from Natal in South Africa.
42:38It's the only one in its genus group.
42:41It can never cross-pollinate.
42:43It can always stay pure.
42:45They're extremely important to the Zulus for their medicinal qualities.
42:50They actually use it for, you know, to purge themselves,
42:54or they use it for headaches.
42:56They use it for infections on the teeth of their cattle to cure them.
43:00It's a really culturally important plant.
43:02It's very culturally important to the Zulus.
43:04Really low-growing?
43:05Always low-growing.
43:07They're growing grasslands in full sun.
43:08Most of it's underground.
43:10It's a subterranean species.
43:13The one behind it is the Cycac Thesauriae from Madagascar.
43:17What I really like about this plant is it hasn't changed in 130 million years.
43:22Wow.
43:22No other Cycac has done it.
43:24130 million years without change.
43:26Yes, without change.
43:27Wow.
43:27So obviously the conditions are just right for it to do whatever it just keeps doing.
43:32Well, it got it right the first time.
43:34A bit like crocodiles, they say.
43:35They're supposed to have lasted a long time too.
43:37Hard not to notice the blue-green amongst the green foliage.
43:40It certainly is.
43:41This is Encephalatus trisposus.
43:43It's from East Cape in South Africa and it's from a very desert area.
43:47It's blue because it stops transpiration and allows the plants to survive in the very low rainfall.
43:53It's nature's sunscreen that's blue.
43:55It's wax.
43:56It's actually a thick wax that goes over.
43:57If you scrape it, it's green underneath.
43:59It actually protects it from the elements and that's why it looks harder.
44:03You can tell by the shape of it.
44:05We're very lucky because all the Cycads here on the International Database
44:09so that if any botanic institution is looking for pollen,
44:13they'll know what we have here so that it can be shared and ensure their survival.
44:22Cycads have been around for millions of years.
44:24The rapid pace of modern life is making their lives really difficult.
44:28So spaces like this one at the Wollongong Botanic Garden really help conserve these ancient beauties.
44:43As our cities grow, there's more and more pressure on every piece of greenery to perform at the highest level.
44:50Our next story is with a researcher who's developing an approach that's set to transform dull and neglected public landscapes.
45:07I'm Claire Farrell and I'm a plant scientist and my work focuses on how to use plants to make cities
45:13more liveable.
45:18We're here at the University of Melbourne's Burnley campus on the banks of the Yarra River and on the lands
45:24of the Wollongong people.
45:26And this is where I teach and research horticulture.
45:30And excitingly, at the entrance, we have a woody meadow.
45:34And woody meadows have been a real passion of mine.
45:37They're about transforming low maintenance landscapes from monocultures of boring lamandra or saltbush
45:43to these beautiful diverse plantings full of flowers, yet with the same inputs.
45:48And this Eremophila glabra is just looking fabulous.
45:52All the plants in a woody meadow are Australian native trees and shrubs.
45:56And we picked them based on their ability to recover from stresses like fire or drought disturbance.
46:02And they've really taken off.
46:04We have them not only in Melbourne, which of course is where I'm based,
46:08but we have them in Perth and Sydney and Canberra as well.
46:11They are low maintenance plantings and key to their success is high species diversity,
46:16planting really, really close together and then managing them through coppicing.
46:21So woody meadows are really part of my career at Burnley where I've focused on plants for cities
46:26and really focusing on plants to fix problems.
46:30So for woody meadows, it's like how can we get more vegetation, more diversity, more flowers
46:35in those areas where they're almost forgotten.
46:41Burnley, I would say, is the home of horticulture in Australia.
46:45It's been teaching horticulture education for about 128 years
46:49and really has been the focus of outreach into improving cities with plants
46:55and also has a long legacy of graduates going out there and changing landscapes.
47:00I've been at Burnley for about 15 years.
47:03Recently, I also became the first woman director of the campus
47:07and I'm really proud to be part of the legacy of urban horticultural teaching
47:11and research at this place.
47:16So we're on the Burnley rooftop.
47:18When I started as a researcher working on green roofs here,
47:22they were really untested in Australia.
47:24And so my work was to find what plants and substrates would work.
47:27And it wasn't a case of taking what worked internationally in temperate climates,
47:32places like Germany and America and England and transferring it here
47:35because the plants that work best for those environments can't cope with our drought.
47:41Unlike woody meadows, which are all just Australian natives,
47:44this green roof has plants from all over the world.
47:47So there's succulents from Africa, there's Mediterranean herbs,
47:51and there are Australian plants that come from those habitats which are similar to green roofs.
47:55So those rocky outcrops or the grasslands that have drought in the summer.
48:00And green roofs are a really great way of helping to improve some of the problems we have in cities.
48:06So they capture rainfall to prevent it going into stormwater runoff
48:09and creating damage to our waterways.
48:12They also cool buildings and they provide biodiversity.
48:16And I don't know if you can see, but there's bees all around me today.
48:23Dormancy can be alleviated sometimes by water.
48:27So in their natural habitats, they might come from a climate where rainfall is sporadic.
48:33I really enjoy teaching and I enjoy the diverse cohort that is at Burnley.
48:38Are they still up taking nutrients?
48:41They might be converting stored resources.
48:44We have career changes and we have recent grads as well that come into our programs.
48:49And it's nice to help them carve a path forward that might build on their expertise
48:54because there's not one way of studying and having a career in horticulture.
49:01So I was born in Zimbabwe and my parents left there when I was really little.
49:06And we moved around a lot in Australia.
49:08And as a result, I saw many different types of native ecosystems and different gardens.
49:13And so while my parents weren't gardeners, we watched Gardening Australia every week.
49:18And so that, I guess, is where I was exposed to gardening
49:22and thinking about the science of growing plants and how to treat them.
49:27I studied botany in Queensland and then I went to do my PhD on dryland salinity in Western Australia.
49:34And I really enjoyed working with the challenge of what plants could grow in salt affected soils.
49:39But I found it quite depressing that you couldn't see a solution to the problem, I guess, in maybe my
49:45lifetime.
49:46I got really interested in how I could apply my skills and my expertise to solving problems in non-saline
49:54land.
49:54And urban systems seemed a really good match for me
49:57because I was fascinated by places like rock outcrops where plants did it tough.
50:01And essentially, that's a green roof.
50:03And so that's really where I started and how I ended up at Burnley.
50:15Hi.
50:16How's it going?
50:17I'm glad you're doing that job today.
50:19Absolutely.
50:20How's your day?
50:21You're good.
50:22We've recently moved to this house in Hawthorne and I live here with my husband, Chris Soder,
50:27who's also a plant scientist at Burnley.
50:29Bit of a jungle, but a nice one.
50:32But a nice one.
50:33So it's been so great to just play in this garden, put in plants and see what happens.
50:38See, there's just so many pollinators already and they just love all the blue flowers.
50:43So we've only been here a couple of months and before we got here, it was pretty sad.
50:48Lots of white coarse gravel, rotting camellias and standard roses and nothing really salvageable.
50:54So we just started completely from scratch.
50:57It's pretty different from what I'm doing at work.
50:59It's more about play and experimenting with plants that I don't get to work with day to day.
51:04So it's quick growing annuals and perennials and just thinking about flowers and colour and covering the ground.
51:12In the backyard, it was pretty much a brick paved courtyard.
51:16So we've just emphasised greenery around the back since.
51:20The green wall was really a way of solving the issue that we looked into the neighbours' bedroom.
51:25But it's pretty simple.
51:27It's a bunch of half hanging baskets with plants just arranged.
51:30So you've got a combination of plants going upwards and those cascading down.
51:34So hopefully in a year's time you don't see any of the underlying structure.
51:40So this little garden bed in the backyard, it's not very big.
51:43It's about one metre wide by four metres long.
51:45And we put it in pretty much two weeks after moving in.
51:48It's a lot of plants from the old place.
51:50So just jamming them in.
51:52They're probably only 20 centimetres apart.
51:54At the moment, there's lots of purples and magenta.
51:58But it will shift to a lot more oranges when we go forward.
52:02So the plants like this geum, tangerine and there's some Leonodes lenuris to come up through the back as well.
52:08And we do also have natives like this scavola here,
52:13which provide a really good ground cover and they're just a beautiful colour.
52:17We should have more native plants in our urban landscapes.
52:21But for me, my garden's not about that.
52:24And for it to be a place of play, it really needs to stretch my boundaries of plants that I
52:29don't know a lot about
52:30because I don't work on them day to day.
52:33And to just be playing with colour and texture.
52:36And it is my belief that we will, in future, merge to a much more blurry boundary
52:43between the native exotic divide.
52:45And we'll be accepting plantings because it's the right plant for the right place
52:50and designing mixtures around that rather than plant origin.
52:56So I've got lots of pots here and I really love growing dahlias.
53:00They're just super, super generous and easy to grow.
53:03And I actually take a lot of joy in deadheading them in an afternoon when I come home from work.
53:11And look at this beautiful, gorgeous colour.
53:15She is a beaut.
53:16This garden's pretty magic to me.
53:19I just feel like it's grown so fast, so rapidly.
53:23It's like the plants know I want them to be here.
53:26And it just makes me feel so serene.
53:28It's a real retreat and you come in through the gate.
53:31You just see all that beauty and joy and you leave the day behind.
53:36As well as gardening, in my downtime I also like to paint plants.
53:40Most people think there's a big disconnect between art and science.
53:43You know, one is left brain, one is right brain.
53:46But the more I do both, the more I see similarities.
53:49They're both about experimenting, asking questions like what if,
53:53and then going to the next step.
53:55When I'm painting and drawing, I'm looking at that plant really closely.
53:59I'm interpreting the arrangement of the leaves, the way the flowers sit.
54:03And it's just another way of taking observations or measurements of plants.
54:09So when I think about my career in plants, it wasn't a straightforward path.
54:14But I could not have imagined I would have got to where I am now.
54:18When I came to Burnley, I really relished the chance to be involved with design,
54:24with urban horticulture, urban plantings, and just helping making cities more liveable.
54:29Having a beautiful house in our own garden is such a blessing.
54:33And really, I can't imagine a better life, but I didn't think it would pan out like this.
54:39Cheers.
54:48Cool temperate gardeners clear out spent summer crops this weekend,
54:52and compost any final fruits or foliage, clearing the decks for soil preparation,
54:57and sowing of wonderful winter crops.
55:00If you have pumpkins to be picked, get onto it before the first frosts hit.
55:05Sit them somewhere sunny and protected for a few days to help the skin cure,
55:09and then store in a cool dry spot.
55:13Australia's native cobra, the cobra greenhood orchid, is coming into flower now.
55:18This rare ground orchid has striking white flower heads with green stripes,
55:23said to look like the head of a snake.
55:26In warm temperate gardens, it's bulb planting time.
55:30In well-prepared soil or pots, plant your stunning spring flower faves,
55:34including jonquils, daffodils, tulips, and hyacinths.
55:38Give empty veggie beds some love this weekend.
55:42Top up levels with aged composts and manures, mulch with straw,
55:46and sow quick-growing green manure seeds to improve tired summer soils.
55:52Spend time in your garden as the seasons change,
55:55and notice where the sun sits as it shifts towards its winter position.
56:00This will help you plan your winter patch
56:02and make the most of the toasty sun traps that remain.
56:07Plant the perfect perennial, the winged bean.
56:10Fast-growing climbers that love the subtropics,
56:13all plant parts can be eaten.
56:15As citrus trees start to slow down going into winter,
56:18now's the time to give them their last supper,
56:21a good feed of aged chook manure or blood and bone
56:24to see them through till spring.
56:27As the weather cools down, so does your compost.
56:30So give it a good turn, a little water,
56:32and whack in some comfrey, borage, or chook poo
56:35to keep your heaps hot and happening.
56:39Tropical gardeners, as the season changes from wet to dry,
56:42the weather can catch us by surprise.
56:45Sow seeds and young plants under cover
56:47to avoid them being drowned or destroyed by the weather.
56:51Flowering now is the lovely lemon myrtle.
56:54Its fragrant, creamy white flowers are a beacon for butterflies and bees.
56:59Tip prune after flowering to prevent seed set.
57:03Get down, get dirty, and show your soil some love.
57:06Feed well with trace elements, treat to some aged compost,
57:11lavish with a liquid seaweed,
57:13and replace those nutrients lost over the wet season.
57:17In arid zones, April is a cracking month in the garden.
57:21Get rolling this weekend with a round of winter veg.
57:24Both broccoli and cauliflower can be sown now,
57:27and they'll rocket away in the mid-autumn weather.
57:30Plant everlasting daisies now for a stunning spring display,
57:34scattering seeds over cultivated garden beds
57:37will create swathes of colour
57:39and a wonderful wild meadow in a few months.
57:43Herbalicious perennial favourites marjoram and oregano
57:46are perfect to plant now.
57:48Both thrive in full sun, are great between pavers
57:51or in pots, planters, hanging baskets and pasta.
57:55Get into the garden this weekend
57:57and, as always, connect with the Gardening Australia family
58:00on our social pages at Facebook and Instagram.
58:05The Glamour
58:05The Glamour
58:05The Glamour
58:06The Glamour
58:11Well, that's it for another week.
58:13But we're already lining up the dominoes for next time.
58:17Take a look.
58:20I'm going to create the perfect low-maintenance pot
58:22of unusual succulent beauties for shady indoor spaces.
58:26Around two and a half years ago, we visited my dad's place.
58:30Shortly after he moved to Nipaluna Hobart.
58:32Well, these days you can hardly recognise the place
58:35and I can't wait to show you around.
58:38And how beautiful are these?
58:41I'm learning everything there is to know about growing
58:43and preparing this ancient aromatic fruit.
58:46It's a quince and you get to smell along with me.
58:49I've had the good idea of like to be a main food country.
58:49I love it.
58:49I'm learning everything there is.
58:50I'm learning everything there is.
58:50I'm learning everything.
58:52It's hard to watch the demon in there.
58:54It's hard to see the helper in your culture.
58:54Then we're leaving everything there is to know about it.
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