- 19 hours ago
Nadia Massih is pleased to welcome Clémence Bectarte, a lawyer at the Paris Bar, specialising in international criminal law and international human rights law. She is working with survivors of the Yazidi genocide, whose experiences reveal both the depth of the brutal systematic violence and the enduring struggle for recognition and basic justice. The testimonies presented in this case are not only legal evidence, but acts of resistance against erasure of a people.
What emerges is a dual reality. On one hand, these proceedings represent a meaningful, if limited, advancement in accountability, marking the extension of genocide prosecutions into new judicial spaces such as France. On the other, they underscore the profound insufficiency of current international responses, as the majority of perpetrators remain untried and the structural conditions of displacement persist. Central to this analysis is the role of testimony, not merely as a legal instrument, but as a collective voice. Survivors speak not only for themselves, but for families, children and an entire community whose existence has been targeted. In this sense, justice is inseparable from memory: the act of speaking becomes a safeguard against forgetting. At the same time, the continued inability of Yazidis to return to Iraq's Sinjar, the destruction of cultural and religious sites, and the absence of coordinated political support point to an ongoing crisis. The genocide is not only an event of the past but a condition with enduring consequences, threatening the continuity of identity itself.
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What emerges is a dual reality. On one hand, these proceedings represent a meaningful, if limited, advancement in accountability, marking the extension of genocide prosecutions into new judicial spaces such as France. On the other, they underscore the profound insufficiency of current international responses, as the majority of perpetrators remain untried and the structural conditions of displacement persist. Central to this analysis is the role of testimony, not merely as a legal instrument, but as a collective voice. Survivors speak not only for themselves, but for families, children and an entire community whose existence has been targeted. In this sense, justice is inseparable from memory: the act of speaking becomes a safeguard against forgetting. At the same time, the continued inability of Yazidis to return to Iraq's Sinjar, the destruction of cultural and religious sites, and the absence of coordinated political support point to an ongoing crisis. The genocide is not only an event of the past but a condition with enduring consequences, threatening the continuity of identity itself.
Visit our website:
http://www.france24.com
Like us on Facebook:
https://www.facebook.com/FRANCE24.English
Follow us on Twitter:
https://twitter.com/France24_en
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NewsTranscript
00:05Hello. You are watching Middle East Matters here on France 24. I'm Nadia Massey. In the
00:11show this week, we look into an historic legal case here in France. A French ISIS member
00:17convicted for his involvement in the genocide of the Yazidi minority in Iraq and in Syria
00:22in 2014. Sabri Yazid was tried in absentia, but nonetheless, campaigners say this is a
00:30victory for justice and a victory for the Yazidi survivors who bravely spoke up to give
00:36their testimony in the court here in Paris. Well, we will look in a moment at the legal
00:42implications of this verdict. But first, my colleague Gabrielle Nadler takes us back more
00:47than a decade to Mosul and Sinjar as the Islamic State group was consolidating its caliphate
00:54to remind us of the violence endured by the Yazidis at the hands of ISIS.
01:02Rehan remembers the day she was kidnapped at 14. An ethnic Yazidi, she was taken by the
01:09Islamic State and sold as a slave here in Mosul. At the crossroads where she was abducted, three
01:15of her eight brothers were killed. They captured us at Hardan's crossroad, then
01:21took us to Umm al-Shababik. And from there, they took us to Tel Afar, to a school there,
01:27then to the Badush prison. The Islamic State group was taking the young women and girls one
01:33by one. When they took us, my brother and I were crying. We were very young. We were crying.
01:42In 2018, Rehan was able to escape from Syria, where she'd been taken, and reached Turkey
01:48on foot. She stayed in hiding with another survivor until she found her brother, Shihab,
01:53on Facebook, and eventually was able to return to Sinjar. Rehan says her story is one of many
02:00others like it.
02:03What happened to me happened to all Yazidi women.
02:06I lost everything, but I came back to life.
02:12The Yazidis are an Iraqi ethnic and religious minority, and are one of the groups who have
02:17been in the region the longest. In August 2014, the Islamic State group began its assault on
02:24the Yazidi people with a massacre in the Sinjar region, leaving thousands dead, and displacing
02:29and capturing community members. A United Nations Commission documented the Islamic State's
02:35ensuing crimes against the Yazidi people. Men were killed in mass executions, or forced
02:40to convert to Islam. Boys were sent into Islamic State training camps. And women and girls,
02:47as young as nine, were sold into sexual slavery, and systematically raped. The UN estimated the
02:54Islamic group killed over 5,000 and abducted over 6,000 Yazidis. As of 2022, about 3,000
03:01Yazidi people were missing, and over 200,000 remained displaced, according to the UN Refugee Agency.
03:07The Islamic State's genocide of the Yazidi people has never been subject to an investigation
03:12by the International Criminal Court. However, in national courts across Europe, most
03:17recently in France, Islamic State members have been convicted of genocide and crimes against
03:22humanity.
03:24Yazidi survivor and activist Nadia Murad, awarded the Nobel Peace Prize in 2018 for her efforts
03:30to end sexual violence as a weapon of war, said justice is what survivors want most.
03:35The culture of impunity for perpetrators, that's the most important and needed thing, that the
03:43culture of impunity must, you know, must not be an option. And survivors want their day in
03:51court.
03:52The trials are finally giving the Yazidi people the chance to seek justice, over a decade on.
04:01That's Gabrielle Nadler with our report. And with me now is Clémence Bechtard. She's a lawyer who
04:08represented three Yazidi survivors and eight of their children in this case we're talking about today. Thank you very
04:15much indeed for speaking to us here on the programme.
04:21Look, your three adult clients, they're all women.
04:25Tell us as much as you can a little of their stories and how it is that they ended up
04:31here in France giving testimony.
04:35Well, three of them were abducted, were living in villages in Mount Sinjar and were abducted on the 3rd of
04:45August 2014,
04:47when the genocide began, with their children. They were then held in different villages and then prisons in Mosul,
04:57in Tal Afar, in different places in Iraq, and then separated from their husbands, who were executed. And they were
05:07then sent to Syria,
05:09where they were subjected to sexual slavery for years with their children. They have suffered tremendous amount of violence.
05:17some of them were sold and bought and detained by more than 10 ISIS members. And they finally managed to
05:28escape. And now two of them are living in exile outside of Iraq.
05:34And we can, you know, we can only begin to imagine, given the scale of what these women went through,
05:41how difficult it must have been to speak about that in court.
05:48It is extremely difficult, but for them, justice is necessary. It's at the centre of the reason why they decided
05:59to deliver this testimony.
06:00First of all, at the investigative stage where judges were investigating these crimes. And then in court, two of them
06:08were present in court with their children and testified and confirmed, you know, the horrendous crimes that they had suffered,
06:17including in the hands of one French ISIS member who was tried and convicted last week. It was very important
06:25for them, not only to see justice, to get this conviction.
06:29Of course, it's not, you know, a wider investigation such as it could have been before the International Criminal Court,
06:37for example.
06:37But nonetheless, it is very important for them because for them, the greatest danger is to forget about these crimes,
06:45is to forget what the Yezidi community have suffered.
06:48And it is very important also for them to testify not only in their name, in their name of their
06:55families, of their children who have suffered also with them, but also in the name of the whole Yezidi community.
07:01And as you say, look, this was the trial of one individual, a Frenchman, Sabri Ezeid. For the survivors that
07:10you spoke to, these three women in particular, does it feel now like justice has been done, given that we
07:17are talking about one man and one man who is important to say was tried in absentia, meaning he was
07:23not present in court?
07:25It is a step towards justice, but a significant step. They, of course, aware that, you know, all the suspects
07:35of ISIS who have committed these crimes have not been prosecuted or convicted.
07:43We're far from that. This is only the 15th trial, actually, that is taking place.
07:48It was the first in France, but there are other European jurisdictions who have already organized trials that resulted in
07:56convictions for genocide and crimes against humanity.
07:59But it is nonetheless an important step, also because it is now a new jurisdiction, France, that had never organized
08:06such a trial, that is now considering to organize other trials and to prosecute other French ISIS members.
08:14And for them, it is really essential that this quest for justice continues, because, again, it is also a way
08:20to remember the crimes that were perpetrated and also for them to shed light on the current situation of the
08:28Yazidi community, because all these survivors have not been in their immense majority able to go back to their villages
08:37in the Mount Sinjar.
08:38So there continues to be now a necessity for them to continue to continue to talk about this genocide, about
08:44what has happened and about the consequences also on the whole community.
08:49Clément Spectard, don't go away. I have a few more questions I want to ask you. But before we do,
08:53I'd like to play a clip.
08:56This is from Fahad Shamo Roto. He himself is a Yazidi activist. He's a survivor as well.
09:03He attended the trial that you participated in as the lawyer here.
09:10He spoke to my colleague, Karis Garland, earlier on today about the challenges faced by the survivors, those who are
09:17now in Iraq, in Sinjar, but also some who are here in Europe who say they face challenges with their
09:23asylum applications.
09:24Let's just have a listen to a little of what he said to say.
09:28As now we are approaching for the 12th commemoration of this genocide, Sinjar has had no functioning administration and official
09:36security for 11 years.
09:39And these have kept our people in perpetual uncertainty and instability.
09:47Our people are still waiting, not just for justice or for the over 2,000 women and children remain missing,
09:58but for the condition to live in dignity.
10:01And we are also waiting for a chance to be able to offer our loved one a dignified burial from
10:09over 90 mass grave discovered.
10:12For the past decade, Sinjar has faced blockade policy from Kurdistan regional government, neglected by Iraq and international community.
10:21International community have pledged to protect us and to help us recover and to stabilize our homeland, but in a
10:28state they have funded our life in displacement.
10:32As a result, for 11 years, our children are growing up in the camps.
10:38Families remain separated and many of those who are seeking refuge in European countries are facing rejection of their asylum
10:46application and even deportation from countries like Germany, France and the Netherlands.
10:52If we are to endure and to recover and to thrive, we need the world to fulfill many promises made
11:01to us after 2014.
11:03Isis attempt to eradicate our community and giving up on us would be their victory.
11:11Yezidi has been calling for formation of an international commission to resolve this genocide through an agreement between international community
11:20and Iraqi government so that we can govern our own homeland and we can prevent future genocide.
11:29We've got the testimony there of another survivor, a Yezidi activist, and Clemence Bektat still with me, the lawyer who
11:36worked on the case, who was listening to that.
11:38And Clemence, I don't know whether this affects your clients in particular, but I'm sure you know people in the
11:43community more widely.
11:44And I wondered whether you had any reflections on what we were just hearing there about the fact that there
11:51are apparently Yezidis, he said, even here in France, who face the possibility of deportation.
11:57And is that something you're aware of?
12:02I'm not aware of any individual situation in France of any Yezidi survivor who has been in this situation.
12:10But again, you know, this kind of trial is also a way and this is very important for my clients,
12:17but for Yezidi survivors as a whole to shed light on the current situation again of the Yezidis.
12:24And they need some political support and some mobilization from the international community.
12:28And what this activist was saying is very true.
12:31You know, there is a sense of forgetting by the international community what happened.
12:38This is only a decade ago.
12:40And the fact that despite the tremendous amount of crimes suffered by the Yezidi community, they are not today allowed
12:48to go back to their villages.
12:49Their villages haven't been reconstructed.
12:52There is no political support either from the central Iraqi authorities nor from the Kurdish authorities to allow the Yezidi
12:59to go back to their homes.
13:01And the part of the Yezidi community who is today in exile is only wishing to go back to their
13:09country.
13:09You know, my clients were telling me we're living abroad because for our children, because we don't want to live
13:14in refugee camps, because the living conditions are too hard there.
13:18But our wish is to go back to Sinjar and to be able to continue also and to continue to
13:26transmit the Yezidi identity.
13:28What you have to remember also is that all the cultural places, the temples have been destroyed.
13:33So there's a real threat also on the continuity of the Yezidi identity and practice of religion as such.
13:43Clémence Bechtard, there is more I'd like to ask you, but unfortunately, we're out of time.
13:47I want to thank you very much indeed for your time today.
13:50It's been great to get your thoughts here on Middle East matters.
13:55Thank you very much.
13:57And with that, that's it for the programme this week.
14:00You've been watching Middle East matters here on France 24's Around the World.
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