- 3 hours ago
US President Donald Trump and Prime Minister Narendra Modi held their first discussion since the commencement of the West Asia war.
Category
🗞
NewsTranscript
00:00Well, welcome. You're watching To The Point. I'm Kreeti Chaudhuri.
00:03The U.S. President, Donald Trump, has spoken to the Indian Prime Minister.
00:07We're going to get you details also.
00:08You had Prime Minister Modi who addressed the Rajya Sabha on the ensuing war in West Asia.
00:15All of that coming up first. Allow me to take you through the headlines.
00:20U.S. President Donald Trump speaks to Prime Minister Modi amidst raging war.
00:25U.S. Ambassador to India Sergio Gors says both leaders talked about the situation
00:30and importance of keeping the Strait of Hormuz open.
00:40Prime Minister Modi's big unity pitch amidst raging war.
00:44Modi's big appeal to states to unite during challenging times
00:47assures India's energy diversified, backs peace and dialogue amidst the war.
00:55We have talked about the issue of peace in the world of dialogue and diplomacy.
01:04We have talked about the de-escalation and the Hormuz Trait and the Hormuz Trait.
01:15Day 25, West Asia war rages on.
01:18U.S.-Israel continues to pound Iran.
01:20Iran-Israel buildings reduce to rubble.
01:22Israel intercepts Iran missiles over central Israel.
01:34Lebanon expels Iranian envoy as Israel continues to hit the country,
01:39asks him to leave the country by Sunday.
01:42Lebanese government accuses Iran of funding Hezbollah,
01:45who dragged the country into war.
01:52The Trump court of the country slams bias against women officers in forces,
01:58says women officers faced prejudice,
02:01says evaluation process loaded against women.
02:20All right, the latest news break right now coming in.
02:23U.S. President Donald Trump and the Prime Minister Modi have spoken ever since the war began in West Asia.
02:30First Modi-Trump conversation since the beginning of the West Asia war.
02:35Prime Minister Modi has tweeted out a short while ago on social media platform X.
02:40His social media post says received a call from President Trump
02:44and had a useful exchange of views on the situation in West Asia.
02:48India supports de-escalation and restoration of peace at the earliest.
02:52Ensuring that the Strait of Hormuz remains open, secure and accessible
02:57is essential for the whole world.
02:59We agreed to stay in touch regarding efforts towards peace and stability.
03:07We're going to quickly get in a word from our reporters,
03:11but viewers, to put this in perspective,
03:14ever since the war has been waging on in West Asia,
03:18this is the first telephonic communication that has taken place
03:22between the two world leaders, President Trump and Prime Minister Modi.
03:25You had the Ambassador of America to India, Sergio Gaur,
03:31confirm that the conversation had taken place
03:34and both the world leaders spoke, hoping to resolve the crisis soon
03:39and especially where the Strait of Hormuz is concerned, that needs to open up.
03:43On the other hand, a short while ago, Prime Minister Modi has also tweeted out
03:47saying that he believes in peace and stability in the region
03:51and he had a word, Prime Minister Modi said, that President Trump called him.
03:58He had a word with him and the emphasis on the Strait of Hormuz was spoken on
04:04that the renewal or the opening of the Strait of Hormuz is priority.
04:12I want to quickly cut across to my colleague, Gaurav Savant, who's joining us for more.
04:17Gaurav, you know, elucidate for us.
04:20This is the first time that the two world leaders, Prime Minister Modi and President Trump,
04:24have spoken ever since the war has been waging on in West Asia.
04:28Prime Minister Modi also tweeting out once again,
04:31hoping that there'll be a diplomatic solution to this,
04:34something that we heard him say even in Parliament today
04:37and also emphasising on the importance of the Strait of Hormuz to be open.
04:44So, India has very strongly advocated constantly
04:48that there has to be dialogue and diplomacy to find a solution to every situation.
04:52On the 28th of February, the US and Israeli forces bombed Iran
04:57and Iran's very cut up with the fact that negotiations were on
05:00and in midst of those negotiations, the bombing started
05:03and they shut the Strait of Hormuz.
05:05Now, India is amongst those few countries that have successfully managed to get
05:09some of our oil tankers and LPG tankers from the Strait of Hormuz,
05:13given our good ties both with Iran and with Israel
05:16and this time our ties with Iran holding India in good stead,
05:19our tankers, some of them have been able to sail through the Strait of Hormuz
05:23and then the Indian Navy is escorting them from the Gulf of Oman
05:27through the Arabian Sea back to ports in India.
05:29America is also very keen that Strait of Hormuz be kept open.
05:33President Trump had initially reached out to the UK,
05:36he reached out to several NATO partners,
05:38he then reached out to other countries like Japan,
05:41which get more than 90% of their oil and gas from this region and South Korea.
05:46But several countries have been hesitating in contributing ships for this mission.
05:51India has advocated dialogue and diplomacy for sea lanes of communication to remain open
05:57and that's the best way forward.
05:59Now, India does enjoy a unique position of being good friends both with Israel and with Iran,
06:06being a strategic partner on all sides actually with the United States,
06:10very close to UAE and Saudi Arabia, having partners in other Gulf countries
06:15and Prime Minister Narendra Modi has remained engaged with all the Gulf heads of state and governments
06:20as has the External Affairs Minister with the Foreign Ministers.
06:22In fact, our Foreign Minister and the American Foreign Minister,
06:25they spoke yesterday.
06:27American officials are in India even as we speak.
06:30An official of the Pentagon in the Department of War is currently in India
06:35and they're talking about a pivot to the Indo-Pacific.
06:38So, India-US engagement appears to be intensifying,
06:42but the big issue is how does Strait of Hormuz remain open,
06:46not just for countries like India, but India, China, Japan, South Korea,
06:51multiple countries where the economies depend extensively on this
06:55and that's where the conversation is taking place, Preeti.
06:57Thank you, Gaurav, for joining us.
06:59I want to quickly bring in Rohit Sharma, my colleague from Washington, D.C.
07:02Rohit, you know, to put the focus also on the sheer fact that there is word
07:09that you had nations like Turkey, Egypt and Pakistan that were used as intermediaries
07:14or are being used as intermediaries between Iran and the U.S.
07:18The conversation between America and India gains that much more importance
07:23in the current context.
07:26Absolutely.
07:27I think, Preeti, you know, we actually reported yesterday when we said, you know,
07:32there was a lot of reporting going on about the back channels that were at play.
07:36One of the things that was talked about yesterday is that how India is also playing a role
07:41of keeping that back channel open in terms of ensuring that the messages could go through
07:46the Iranian leadership.
07:47Again, you know, by their own admission in the U.S.,
07:50they were not sure who the leadership is.
07:52So I think the United States is going to, is keeping its option open
07:57and making sure that they have enough people in the area, in the region,
08:01whose interests align with that of the United States.
08:03And I think in that context, it kind of was, you know, pretty, I should say,
08:08expected after external affairs ministers spoke to Secretary Rubio yesterday.
08:13And I think today or just right now, we have the prime minister speaking with President Trump.
08:18President Trump, in fact, calling.
08:20And again, you know, talking about the crisis in West Asia.
08:23Have the ambassador of, you know, America, the United States, Mr. Sergio Gaur,
08:27also, you know, give out information on what was spoken about.
08:32Our prime minister, Prime Minister Modi, has also posted on social media,
08:37X, on what the conversation was.
08:39Any word coming in?
08:41Was there a request, you know, for ships?
08:45Because India has always taken a stand where it's dialogue and it's diplomacy.
08:54You're in mute, Rohit.
08:58Okay, we seem to have lost Rohit Sharma.
09:00We're going to try and connect to him later.
09:02But let's quickly move on, viewers, because these are interesting, challenging times.
09:06You had Prime Minister Modi speak to President Trump.
09:10President Trump called him.
09:11They had a fruitful conversation, is what is being reported.
09:15The Strait of Hormuz and why it should be open at the earliest was one of the prime concerns of
09:22President Trump.
09:23This is also a time when America is trying to lean on allies to support the mission to open the
09:29Strait of Hormuz.
09:30Till now, India has taken the stand of diplomacy.
09:33On the other front, that is what India reiterated in its conversation with America,
09:39where its dialogue, its diplomacy and stability, that's what India wants.
09:44And, of course, did agree with the President of the United States
09:48that the quick reopening of the Strait of Hormuz should be priority.
09:53We're going to keep a keen eye on all developments,
09:54but let's dive into the domestic implications of all of this as well, viewers.
09:59You have the Prime Minister on two days running.
10:01First, his address in Lok Sabha.
10:04Second, today, his address in Rajya Sabha,
10:07where it came down to the raging war in West Asia.
10:10Well, Prime Minister spoke in Rajya Sabha today,
10:13but, of course, the domestic politics peaking at the sidelines, attacking the government.
10:29Prime Minister Modi delivered his second address on the West Asia war,
10:34this time in the Rajya Sabha, just a day after speaking in the Lok Sabha.
10:38In the Upper House, Modi reiterated India's consistent pitch of peace, dialogue and diplomacy,
10:45urging all sides to step back from escalation.
11:08He also outlined the government's strategy to tackle the fallout.
11:37But the government's stance has come under sharp attack from the opposition.
11:42Our foreign policy, this is Prime Minister Modi's personal foreign policy.
11:47You can see the result of this.
11:50It's a universal joke.
11:52Everybody considers it a universal joke.
11:54Donald Trump knows exactly what Mr. Modi can do and what Mr. Modi cannot do.
12:00So, if the Prime Minister is compromised, our foreign policy is compromised.
12:06Amid this, global developments have added a new twist.
12:11Reports suggest Pakistan is attempting to position itself as a mediator
12:15after Donald Trump announced a five-day pause on attacks on oil refineries.
12:21Pakistan Army Chief General Asim Munir is said to have spoken to Trump.
12:25Reports suggest that Trump and Munir discuss the West Asia war.
12:29Pakistan is positioning itself as a lead mediator.
12:33Pakistan Prime Minister Shahbaz Sharif also dialed Iranian President on Monday.
12:38And Pakistan is holding back-channel talks with the US and Iran.
12:42As per reports, Pakistan is in touch with the US envoy Steve Witkoff and Trump's son-in-law Jared Kushner.
12:49Islamabad is also a possible venue for peace talks.
12:53These reports have triggered a political storm back home with the Congress questioning the government,
12:59asking why Pakistan is stepping into a mediator's role and where India stands in the diplomatic equation.
13:34As the war began,
13:35reshapes global alignments, the battle lines are not just on the ground, but also in India's
13:40domestic politics.
13:48All right, joining me now is Ambassador Sergio Gore, Ambassador of the United States of America
13:53to India. Ambassador Gore, thank you for taking the time and joining us. Ambassador, I want to
13:57just quote your tweet on social media where you say that President Donald Trump just spoke with
14:03Prime Minister Modi. They discussed the ongoing situation in the Middle East, including the
14:08importance of keeping the Strait of Hormuz open. What more can you add, Ambassador, to that conversation?
14:15Good evening. It's a pleasure to join you tonight on India Today. The president had a very good call
14:22with Prime Minister Modi, and the two leaders discussed the importance of keeping the Strait
14:27of Hormuz open. As you and your viewers know, the Strait of Hormuz is considered
14:33part of international waters. And so the United States maintains a position that nobody should
14:38be able to hold this area hostage. We fully support this area to be open. We want this area to
14:47be
14:47navigable. We want ships to go through so energy can go out, not just for India, but the rest of
14:52the world. And so tonight, the two leaders had a very productive call. President Trump not only
14:58considers Prime Minister Modi a dear friend, but India is a vital partner. And this was a very good call
15:05between the two leaders so the Prime Minister can be appraised of the latest efforts and what is going
15:10on in the ground. Ambassador Gore, it was lovely speaking with you. You were there with us at the India
15:15Today conclave. I want to bring in my colleague Rohit as well, who's joining us from Washington. But I'd like
15:19you, you know, just to ask you one question before Rohit also has a question for you. Ambassador Gore, was
15:24there a request
15:25in this conversation, you know, for India to join the mission to open the Strait of Hormuz?
15:33Without getting into too much details, because it was a private conversation. So it's not for me to reveal any
15:38of those
15:38details. But as as as I shared online, the key to this, and I think the whole world agrees that
15:45nobody should be able to
15:47hold the Strait of Hormuz hostage. Right now, there's only one country, one belligerent country, Iran, that is trying to
15:53blockade this area. And to the United States, and I hope to the rest of the world, that is unacceptable,
15:59because energy
16:00costs, you know, cooking and LPG and LNG and gas and natural gas, those things should be able to go
16:09through
16:09international waters without any one country trying to bully the rest of the world. And so that was the primary
16:16goal is to
16:17discuss the importance of maintaining that the Strait of Hormuz is open. And India is a vital
16:22partner to the United States. And so President Trump is always happy to make sure that Prime Minister Modi is
16:28appraised of what is happening. Rohit, you have a question? Go ahead.
16:33Mr. Gore, thank you so much for doing this. You know, one last question. I know you're running short on
16:37time.
16:37We've also heard about a lot of back channels that have been established in the region, including, you know,
16:42Egypt and Saudi Arabia and Pakistan and India. Just to go back to the first question that was asked,
16:48I mean, what role has India played in ensuring that these talks go through? And what role is
16:53India playing in these negotiations that will happen in this during this week?
16:59Look, I think that's a great question, Rohit. And it's always great to speak to you, my friend.
17:04But that's a question that should be posed to the Indian government. The one thing that I will say is
17:10the United States always welcomes India's input. Not only is Prime Minister Modi a leader of an
17:18incredibly important country, but he's also been around as a leader for a very long time.
17:22And so he's someone that has had a phenomenal relationship with President Trump for many years.
17:27And so President Trump is always keen to engage him, to engage India. And so this was a very,
17:36it was a very productive, substantial phone call without getting into too many details.
17:40And but the big takeaway, I think, for everybody is that the Strait of Hormuz needs to be reopened.
17:46There's no reason that ships are lining up trying to get out and they don't know if they're going to
17:51be sunk or not.
17:52And so we hope the world will line up and say, open up the Strait of Hormuz,
17:56because this is this is not acceptable at this time. I appreciate joining you tonight on India Today.
18:02Thank you. Thank you, Ambassador.
18:03Thank you. Thank you, Ambassador Gore. Like I said earlier, it was lovely to speak with you again.
18:08We had Ambassador Sergio Gore at the India Today Conclave, Rohit, just about a week ago. You know that.
18:13But thank you, Rohit, for joining us. And after that conversation with the ambassador,
18:18who made it, you know, to put it together very clear that the focus of the conversation between President Trump
18:25and the Indian Prime Minister revolved around the Strait of Hormuz and the importance to reopen it at the earliest.
18:31However, there are domestic implications to all of this. I want to cut across right now to GVL and Narsimha
18:36Rao,
18:37former Raju Sabha MP and senior BJP leader, who's joining us. Thank you, sir.
18:41We've had a bit of a news break and a bit of the patience that you had to wait for
18:45us.
18:46But two quick questions, Mr. Rao.
18:48First up, there is pressure from the opposition that they are, you know, we spoke with, you know,
18:57on that with the ambassador as well, that there are back-channel talks where even a country like Pakistan
19:03is seemingly the go-between America and Iran as an intermediary, while India has been completely overlooked.
19:12I think I've heard the comments of the Congress Party. They are rather either immature,
19:18I could even call them bombossed by a failed party when in government.
19:25We've seen how Dr. Manmohan Singh went to Sharmul Sheikh and how conceded that Pakistan,
19:31which was exporting terror to India, which actually repeatedly engaged in cross-border terrorism,
19:40Pakistan was called a victim of terror by the then-UPA.
19:43So, so much for the UPA's credibility. I think the less said about it, the better.
19:48I think you have seen at the height of this war, after the prime minister has spoken in both houses
19:56of parliament,
19:56you have just reported a call between President Trump and Prime Minister Srinarendra Modi,
20:03and you have the ambassador to India, U.S. ambassador to India, giving a gist of that conversation.
20:10So India's opinions, India's stand is very much appreciated all over the world.
20:18And the Honorable Prime Minister said this on the floor of the House,
20:21that we are engaging with both Israel, Iran and United States.
20:27And our aim is to de-escalate tensions in this situation and go back to the discussion table.
20:36All problems have to be resolved in a peaceful manner.
20:39And it is not acceptable.
20:41Prime Minister made very categorical statement that it is not acceptable for anyone to really prevent
20:48flow of passage of ships from Strait of Hormuz.
20:52And more or less, you have heard a similar statement coming from the ambassador of the U.S.
20:58So certainly India's opinions, India's views, and is very much not only respected in the world
21:07and taken as a very major input.
21:10We are, you see, we are certainly facing the consequences of the war.
21:14And that's not a creation of India.
21:16The Congress Party seems to be having in its own imaginary political agenda that they have
21:25solutions to all the problems.
21:27Rahul Gandhi, instead of running away from parliament and running away from any all-party
21:31meetings, he should come forward and say what great ideas that he have.
21:35The Congress Party is only indulging in cheap politics.
21:40And people of the country have seen how Honorable Prime Minister is helping this country steer
21:46through this crisis, much as we have really overcome the COVID crisis.
21:51And he has praised to the whole country through parliament that these are difficult times.
21:56And we certainly want de-escalation of tension, but tensions and also resumption of normal
22:03trade.
22:03But these are times for us to really prepare ourselves very well.
22:07The country and the government are fully engaged in ensuring that the ordinary people do not
22:13suffer.
22:14All arrangements are being made.
22:15Right.
22:16But Mr. Rao, you know, the question that I'd like to ask you at the back is what has unnerved
22:20a lot of Indians is not once but multiple times, be it in, you know, social media posts or
22:27his address both times, Lok Sabha and Rajya Sabha, that the Prime Minister is constantly stressing
22:33on the fact that we could go back to COVID times.
22:37We're already facing an LPG crisis in various parts of the country.
22:41An imminent, you know, fuel hike is around the corner.
22:45What are we looking at?
22:46Because there is a sense of panic when the Prime Minister mentions COVID-like times.
22:53No, I think rather than talking about creating panic, Prime Minister, Honourable Prime Minister
23:01is reassuring the country.
23:03COVID has really cost heavily.
23:06But then because people of India were with the government, the Prime Minister repeatedly
23:12spoke to the people of India.
23:14And now he has done that through the House of Parliament, through the House of People
23:18and Rajya Sabha.
23:21And this is and people have confidence in Prime Minister.
23:24People know.
23:25I think the best thing, the Prime Minister, Modi, is crisis management skills are, I think,
23:31the best in the world.
23:33And he's actually when going gets tough, Modi gets going.
23:37I think that's easily a very, that's a small correction that can be made, a small amendment
23:43that can be made to the maxim.
23:45Prime Minister Modi has always come out tops in crisis situations.
23:50The Congress Party similarly made very silly comments during COVID.
23:54They should go back and say, check.
23:56The people of the country rallied behind Prime Minister.
23:58They questioned the vaccines efficacy.
24:01They said, don't trust these vaccines.
24:03They joked about India's ability to manufacture vaccines.
24:06And we have seen how this vaccination in India, COVID vaccination, was such a big success.
24:12So like we have overcome the COVID crisis, even this crisis we shall overcome.
24:18But this is a crisis that is looming.
24:20And we are making every effort to shorten the possible fallout of this war.
24:25Every attempt is being made by India, given its position, preeminent position in the world
24:31trade and also in the field of world diplomacy.
24:34All right, Mr. Rao.
24:35Thank you for joining us.
24:42For the latest news break coming in, Lok Sabha has passed the bill to amend a law on protection
24:47and rights of transgender persons, which seeks to exclude social orientations from the ambit
24:53of the statute and provides for graded punishment based on the gravity of harm inflicted on such
24:59people.
24:59Opposition parties opposed the bill, saying it violated the basic principle of the right to
25:04human dignity.
25:06Human dignity, BJP and allied parties in the Lok Sabha have supported the bill, noting
25:10that self-identification could lead people claiming a trans identity to claim reservation,
25:15if at all reservation is bought in the future.
25:18Having said that, many civil rights activists, transgender activists in groups as well as the
25:24opposition had hoped that this bill will go to a standing committee.
25:28But in Lok Sabha, that is not to be.
25:31The bill has been passed.
25:32Of course, it needs to clear the Rajya Sabha test.
25:35Joining me for more on this is my colleague, Moshmi.
25:37Moshmi, what more can you add?
25:40So clearly, PTB saw that the House was bitterly divided between the ruling party and the NDA
25:48and the opposition party, including the Trinamool Congress, SP and the DNK joining the bandwagon
25:56with Congress saying that it violates the basic constitutional rights of a citizen.
26:01And on the other hand, the government was clearly saying that this was actually a landmark bill
26:08because it would also ruin those grounds of people identifying themselves as transgender
26:16to claim reservation and benefits.
26:19So clearly, earlier in the day also, PTB saw that Rahul Gandhi met the transgender community
26:25that were calling out that this bill has not been consulted by the section that it pertains to.
26:33So clearly, we'll see that this bill will be moved to the Raj Sabha in this session, the next two,
26:39three days.
26:39And one will have to wait and see whether it becomes a law within two, three days
26:44because the government has a clear majority in the upper House.
26:50All right.
26:50Well, that remains to be seen if it passes the Rajya Sabha test.
26:53Thank you, Moshmi, for joining us with that quick update.
26:55Renuka Chaudhary has been somebody, Rajya Sabha MP, Congress senior leader, is joining us now,
27:01has been someone who's been steadfast against the passage of this bill.
27:05Renuka Chaudhary, that bill has cleared Lok Sabha today.
27:09Why is your party against the transgender bill?
27:17I don't think we're against the transgender bill.
27:20I'll be speaking on it, hopefully, in the next few days when it comes to the Raj Sabha.
27:26And we are asking for an objective look at what the issue is.
27:31They both are being exaggerated.
27:34There is this exaggerated concern by the government who now suddenly says that
27:40they're people who are taking advantage of the great lagrists that the government gives to such people.
27:50And we are against the bill because it actually demonizes the situation and the recipients of this.
28:02It strips them of any vestige of respect and privacy.
28:09And look, let's face it, if you go to see it in this country,
28:14what are these medical boards that they constitute?
28:17It's just a way of shifting the responsibility somewhere else.
28:21Do you really believe that in India we have medical boards which are competent,
28:26who know what all this is about?
28:28Do you believe that the DM who's already overburdened in the districts,
28:34that the district magistrate is going to take a call on this?
28:38That people will be called and if they're not satisfied,
28:42now that is a dangerous word to use.
28:45If they're not satisfied,
28:48then they can turn everything down and turn it against the gender people.
28:53That can't be accepted.
28:56They are citizens of this country.
28:59They deserve to be respected and recognized.
29:02And if they want to self-identify,
29:05yes, if you find someone who's actually misusing
29:08what the great thing that the government gives,
29:12then there are the laws under which they can be taken care of.
29:17But to just en masse put people into this situation
29:22and tell them that they have to go and report.
29:25We as families,
29:27we don't know how to deal with transgenders.
29:30We don't know.
29:30We are not qualified.
29:32Parents quite often have cruelty in the house
29:36because they're so terrified.
29:38They don't know what to tell society.
29:39So they try to compartmentalize them
29:42and put them into a narrow state of socially accepted behavior,
29:46which is all rubbish.
29:48So where do these people go?
29:50They run away from home.
29:52They go to other places
29:54where they have like-minded people who support them.
29:56They support systems and structures
29:58which the government has done nothing for.
30:01They're citizens who've come forward
30:03and helped and protect them.
30:05And now they say allurement.
30:07What is allurement?
30:09You're not alluring people
30:10saying that you are only Hindus,
30:13that that's the only religion in this country.
30:16And you're abetting.
30:18I mean, these are wild allegations to make.
30:23This is like what you say,
30:25that the man who loses a limb in service.
30:29The government says that there is the need of this bill
30:32because if tomorrow there is reservation,
30:34then self-identification can become hazardous
30:39in terms of misuse.
30:43Oh, please.
30:45This is a government that's doing the SIR all over the country
30:48where there's large lacunas and holes in the whole theory.
30:51And now suddenly this population,
30:53what is the percentage of this population across the country?
30:56Please tell them to tell you that.
30:59This is all.
31:00I mean, is this the priority item at this point today
31:03when we have geopolitical situations there
31:06and people, citizens across the country are sitting?
31:08We have a prime minister who's busy canvassing in election states
31:12instead of coming to parliament and giving us a statement.
31:14It took the government three weeks to come to parliament
31:17to say while parliament is in session
31:19to tell us what is happening.
31:21As Indians, we are sitting here and waiting
31:23for Trump to declare something
31:25and for Russia to declare something.
31:27I mean, this is bizarre.
31:29Your level of priorities and what you consider as important
31:33are totally skewed.
31:35And the reservation, you're thinking of reservation now.
31:38On the other side, you're dangling the guarantee of,
31:41the carrot of giving women's reservation now
31:44after it's been lying forever.
31:47Let's not get carried away
31:49or deviated from what the truth is.
31:52And this is going to be absolute harassment.
31:54I'm sorry, the systems are not in place
31:58where we can respect the government
32:00and say that, yes, you have this wonderful response system
32:03and you actually have people who follow the law.
32:06So I'm sorry, you cannot stigmatize,
32:09you cannot victimize,
32:11you cannot take away the rights of the transgenders.
32:16First of all, there's no understanding of what it is.
32:19Let's be realistic.
32:21You think half of parliament knows what we're talking about?
32:24They don't.
32:25So let's be realistic about this.
32:27You know, I think the bill needs to go to a standing committee,
32:30but it has been cleared.
32:32It has been cleared in the Lok Sabha.
32:34You're saying you're going to speak in the Rajya Sabha?
32:36There's no...
32:37Yeah.
32:38Well, you're going to speak in the Rajya Sabha.
32:39Thank you, Ms. Chaudhary, for taking the time out.
32:41We actually had you on a completely different topic,
32:43but we got you a little late.
32:45So thank you for speaking on this.
32:46Appreciate you joining us.
32:48We're going to quickly shift into right now
32:50on what are the issues with the transgender bill
32:53that has been now cleared in Lok Sabha.
32:55Watch this report.
33:00A political firestorm is intensifying.
33:03Protests are spreading across the country
33:06against the government
33:07Transgender Persons Amendment Bill 2026.
33:10Members of the community say
33:13this is not reform,
33:14but a rollback of identity and dignity.
33:21At the core of the outrage
33:23are sweeping changes
33:25that dismantle self-perceived gender identity
33:28and replace it with mandatory medical certification.
33:32Introduce screening before recognition,
33:34narrow who qualifies as transgender
33:36and remove identities like genderqueer.
33:39The bill also mandates reporting
33:41of gender-affirming surgeries
33:43and proposes stricter penalties.
33:46This marks a decisive break from 2019
33:49when the law formally recognized
33:52transgender persons
33:53and upheld the right to self-identify
33:56without medical proof
33:57with a wider and more inclusive definition.
34:01The framework is now being fundamentally rewritten.
34:05In 2019,
34:07identity was based on self-perception.
34:09In 2026,
34:11it shifts to state validation.
34:13Earlier certification was a direct application
34:17to the district magistrate.
34:18Now it requires medical or screening boards.
34:22No medical testing was needed then.
34:24It is compulsory now.
34:26Definitions that were once inclusive
34:28are being tightened
34:29with identities like genderqueer
34:32at risk of exclusion.
34:34Access to rights earlier came from self-declaration.
34:38It is now tied to official approval.
34:40While 2019 faced criticism for weak penalties,
34:452026 introduces tougher punishments.
34:48The backlash has been fierce.
34:52The National Council for Transgender Persons
34:55have called the bill
34:55unconstitutional and regressive,
34:58alleging no consultation
35:00and warning it violates privacy
35:02while erasing identities.
35:06It is a cross-violation of democracy,
35:09constitution,
35:10right of expression
35:11and our civil right also.
35:14So we are vehemently protest
35:16against this draconian regressive
35:18proposed
35:21The opposition is accusing the government
35:24of rolling back hard-won rights.
35:47What was once seen as a step towards inclusion
35:50is now being called a step back.
35:54Fair identity risks becoming paperwork
35:57and rights subject to approval.
36:00Bureau Report, India Today.
36:08The bill has been cleared in Lok Sabha.
36:09It stands the Rajya Sabha test now.
36:11But let me bring in our panelists this evening,
36:13Dr. Raksa Sheikh,
36:14trans woman doctor and professor,
36:15Anish Gawande,
36:16spokesperson, NCP.
36:17Very vocal against this bill
36:20is also Avani Bansal,
36:22national spokesperson,
36:22Congress, Rahul Ishwar,
36:24social activist.
36:25I want to bring all of you in
36:27to give your point of view.
36:28We're a bit short on time,
36:29keeping in mind all the developments
36:31with President Trump
36:32and Prime Minister Modi speaking.
36:33So apologies there.
36:34Let's begin.
36:36Dr. Raksa Sheikh,
36:37give us the reason
36:39why you feel
36:40that this bill
36:41should not be made into a law.
36:46Well, thanks for this conversation
36:48and I must put this on table right now
36:52that the bill has just passed in Lok Sabha
36:54and I feel that I'm no longer
36:56an equal recognized citizen
36:58of this country
36:59because it seems I identify
37:03as a transgender person
37:04and if I'm no longer a trans person,
37:06then who I am?
37:06Am I some other category?
37:08Having said that,
37:09I'm also a medical doctor
37:10and the bill proposes
37:11that a trans person
37:13will have to be examined
37:14by a medical board
37:15to be certified
37:16as a trans person
37:17and I can tell you
37:18there is no medical test
37:20or diagnostic method
37:22by which you can say
37:23that someone
37:24is a transgender person
37:26because gender
37:27is different
37:27from sex
37:28and sexual characteristics.
37:30So you cannot examine someone
37:31and say that
37:32they're a trans person.
37:33This is humiliating.
37:35This is ridiculous.
37:36It is unscientific
37:37and not recommended
37:38by any of the medical bodies
37:40including World Health Organization
37:41and it is taking away
37:43the rights of the transgender purple,
37:45the minimum rights
37:46that were given to us
37:47in the 2019 Act
37:48and in fact penalizes people
37:50who are allies of trans people
37:52and providing care
37:53and support to trans people
37:54who are vulnerable
37:56and in conflict
37:57and they have removed
37:59the trans women,
38:00trans men
38:00and non-binary person
38:01and only kept intersex
38:04and some socio-cultural identities
38:07and the urgency
38:08and the stubbornness
38:09of the government
38:10to pass this bill
38:11without any consultation,
38:12without listening
38:12to opposition parties,
38:13without sending it
38:14to the standing committee
38:15just shows, you know,
38:17that the intent
38:18is totally, totally wrong.
38:21Well, one would have hoped
38:22that it would have gone
38:23to a standing committee
38:23and I, you know,
38:24I understand, you know,
38:26Dr. Aksa Sheikh,
38:28why today you feel alienated.
38:29I want to bring in,
38:31you know,
38:32we're trying to get
38:32in as much opinion.
38:33Rahul Ishwar,
38:34you seem to agree
38:35with the passage
38:37of this bill
38:37in Lok Sabha.
38:38Why?
38:40Two submissions.
38:41First of all,
38:42more consultations,
38:43the better.
38:43In a democracy like India,
38:45more consultations
38:45should definitely be there.
38:47But the core question here is,
38:49is it self-identification
38:50or is it scientific identification?
38:52At the heart of hearts,
38:54there is a matter of
38:55whether it is a person
38:56can identify it as self-identification
38:59or there should be
38:59some kind of a scientific identification.
39:02And there are nations
39:03which use both the methods.
39:04For example,
39:05nations which perceive
39:06self-identification.
39:07But Rahul Ishwar,
39:08you just had a doctor
39:08in the form of Aksa.
39:09I know I'm coming in
39:10and I apologize,
39:11but you just had a doctor
39:13who is transgender
39:15who just detailed
39:16that there cannot be
39:17any scientific identification
39:19where gender is concerned.
39:22That's the reason why
39:23earlier those people
39:24who were admitting
39:25for all the transgender rights
39:26were telling
39:26it's a scientific aspect.
39:30They are born like that.
39:31There is something like
39:32it's a static aspect.
39:34So there is a very genuine
39:36robust debate
39:37that's happening
39:37in the medical field
39:38regarding this.
39:38But don't you think
39:40any government
39:40would require
39:41some kind of formalized
39:42and standardized system
39:43so that there is
39:44no misuse of it?
39:45There is a possibility
39:46of misuse
39:47when there are
39:48welfare measures announced
39:49and the other things
39:50are announced.
39:50There is always a possibility
39:51that people can misuse.
39:53So is it not incumbent
39:54upon the government
39:55some kind of a standardization
39:56and formalized process there?
39:58And there are other nations
39:59which follow a hybrid system
40:00of both self-identification
40:02and scientific identification.
40:03And there are some nations
40:04like Japan and China,
40:05even major nations
40:06like Japan and China
40:07who goes for
40:08some kind of a diagnosis.
40:10So it's a robust debate.
40:11I continue and agree
40:12with the sentiments
40:13of the trans people.
40:14But at the same point of time,
40:16from the perspective
40:16of the government
40:17when there is a formal structure
40:18being introduced,
40:20shouldn't there be
40:20some kind of formalization
40:22and standardization?
40:23Shouldn't there be
40:24some kind of space
40:25that doesn't allow
40:26loopholes to come
40:28and people merely claiming
40:29on wimps and fancies
40:30is that not a very
40:31legitimate demand
40:32from the government?
40:33Anish Gawande
40:34shaking his head.
40:35Mr. Gawande,
40:36would you want to come in?
40:37Prithi,
40:38to answer this question
40:39very simply,
40:40just because the
40:41Larki Bahin Yojana
40:42exists,
40:43do we redefine
40:44all women
40:45to only include women
40:46below the poverty line?
40:47I mean,
40:48what an absurd argument.
40:49There are ways
40:50to restrict benefits
40:52depending upon income.
40:53There are ways
40:53to restrict benefits
40:54depending upon
40:56a variety of other factors,
40:57upon your ration card.
40:59I mean,
41:00why is the government
41:01in the middle of a war,
41:03in the middle
41:03of a global energy crisis,
41:05in the face
41:06of a looming
41:07sort of financial crisis,
41:09hell-bent on seeing
41:10what's between
41:10somebody's pants?
41:12You know,
41:13this is outrageous.
41:14There is absolutely
41:15no need
41:16for this bill
41:17to have been introduced
41:18when it was introduced.
41:20Moreover,
41:20the bill is illegal,
41:23unconstitutional,
41:23and illogical.
41:25I mean,
41:25quite frankly,
41:26it goes against
41:27the right to self-identification
41:28granted under NALSA
41:30by the Supreme Court of India,
41:32regardless of whether
41:32or not we might believe
41:33in it on a personal level.
41:35More concretely,
41:37all of these benefits
41:38that you talk about,
41:39I mean,
41:39you only counted
41:404.88 lakh transgender people
41:42in 2011 in the census.
41:43Of those 4.88 lakh people,
41:46which is a vastly
41:46undercounted number,
41:48you only managed
41:48to give 35,000 ID cards.
41:51Of that,
41:51you only managed
41:52to sanction
41:5270 crores per year,
41:54which translates
41:55to around 1,500 rupees
41:56per person
41:57for transgender welfare.
41:59And then,
41:59on top of that,
42:00you only had
42:01an 11% fund utilization
42:03on average
42:04over the last five years
42:05on transgender welfare.
42:07So what kind
42:08of a joke is this?
42:09What misuse
42:09will there be
42:10if there's been no use?
42:12This seems like a bill
42:13that was mistought,
42:15misguided,
42:16goes against
42:16the Prime Minister's
42:17own commitment
42:18to the dignity
42:19and self-respect
42:20of transgender persons.
42:22I want to share
42:22one anecdote
42:23with you, Preeti.
42:25Grace Banu,
42:26an incredible
42:27Dalit trans rights activist
42:28who has been speaking
42:29so powerfully on this,
42:31was at a press conference
42:32with Renuka ji,
42:33with Avni and me
42:34yesterday.
42:35She spoke of how
42:36she went through
42:37this harrowing
42:38medical committee process.
42:40Forty men,
42:41Preeti,
42:42Forty men
42:43asked her to strip naked,
42:46touched her inappropriately
42:47and asked her,
42:48how do you have sex
42:49and how does it feel?
42:50Do we want this
42:51for anybody?
42:52Do we want this
42:53for anybody in this country?
42:54Forget the law.
42:55For self-respect?
42:57For dignity?
42:58What kind of mentality
42:59is this?
43:00It's sick.
43:01Fair point, Anish.
43:03Avni Bansal,
43:04you know,
43:04I was speaking to
43:05some of the MPs
43:06from Lok Sabha
43:06this morning
43:07who are from
43:08the treasury benches
43:09and one of them
43:10off, you know,
43:11doesn't want to be
43:11identified,
43:12said,
43:12where do you draw
43:13the line?
43:14In America,
43:14there are individuals
43:15who are identifying
43:16as dogs,
43:17as cats.
43:18You need to draw
43:18the line somewhere.
43:21Thank you, Preeti,
43:22so much for having
43:23a conversation
43:23on this very important
43:24topic.
43:25Before I answer
43:26your question,
43:26Preeti,
43:27if I may,
43:27with your permission,
43:28I have only one
43:29question for today's
43:30debate to Mr. Rahul
43:31Ishwar.
43:32Can he on this TV
43:32debate,
43:33please explain
43:34what is the difference
43:35between transgender
43:36and intersex?
43:38Can we please ask him
43:39to explain,
43:40because the bill
43:41makes a difference
43:41between intersex
43:42and transgender.
43:43Please ask him
43:44to explain to your
43:45audience first,
43:46what is the difference
43:46between transgender
43:47and intersex
43:48as he understands it?
43:50Rahul Ishwar,
43:51you need to come
43:52in on that.
43:53I have very little
43:53time, sir.
43:56From what I understand
43:57is,
43:58intersex refers
43:59to a biological
44:00variation
44:01in their sexual
44:01characteristics.
44:03That's what I
44:04understand about
44:04intersex.
44:05If that understanding
44:06is right.
44:07What is the difference
44:08between intersex
44:09and transgender
44:09is my question.
44:11What is the difference
44:12between intersex
44:12and transgender, sir?
44:15And transgenders
44:16are people,
44:16from what we have
44:18heard,
44:18they are self-identified
44:20from what they
44:21tell to be
44:21transgender.
44:22And there is a
44:23possibility of
44:23misuse,
44:24which is rightly
44:24pointed out by
44:25many nations,
44:26not only India,
44:27but many nations,
44:28whereas self-ID
44:29alone is not
44:30enough.
44:31Okay.
44:32It's a subjective
44:33grade.
44:33Preeti, intersex
44:35refers to biological
44:36variations in sex
44:37characteristics,
44:38whereas transgender
44:39refers to an
44:39internal sense of
44:40gender identity.
44:41The question really
44:42is that Mr.
44:43Rahul Eshwar is
44:44talking about some
44:45kind of a scientific
44:46confirmation.
44:46If transgender,
44:48the definition of a
44:49transgender is how
44:50does one feel
44:51internally about his,
44:53her, their gender
44:54identity, who are
44:56these scientists who
44:57will confirm what is
44:58my sexual identity?
44:59If Mr. Rahul
45:00Eshwar, who is
45:02debating here today
45:02on India Today,
45:03cannot properly
45:04explain the
45:05difference between
45:05intersex and
45:06transgender, you
45:07want us to all
45:08believe that
45:09medical officers
45:09understand the
45:12difference between
45:12intersex.
45:14Okay, one second.
45:16Abni, you have
45:1620 seconds.
45:17Okay, Rahul Eshwar,
45:18I'll come to you.
45:18I have two minutes.
45:19Abni, 20 seconds.
45:20Please make your
45:20point.
45:21So my point is
45:23that the difference
45:24between transgender
45:24and intersex, the
45:25difference between
45:26sex and gender, this
45:27government does not
45:28understand and wants
45:30us to believe that
45:31medical practitioners
45:32at the district level
45:33will understand this.
45:34In 30 seconds, this
45:36bill does not
45:37regulate access to
45:38benefits, Preeti.
45:39It regulates identity
45:40itself.
45:41Point number two, this
45:43bill does not respond
45:43to evidence.
45:44It is based on some
45:46kind of a perceived
45:47risk.
45:47And finally, this bill
45:49does not reflect the
45:50lived realities of the
45:52members of the
45:53LGBTQI community.
45:54Today, they are saying
45:55we will determine
45:56scientifically what a
45:58transgender is supposed
45:59to be.
45:59Tomorrow, they will
46:00say we will determine
46:01how women are supposed
46:02to be.
46:03We will determine who
46:04is a Muslim.
46:05They are already saying
46:05we will determine who
46:06is a citizen.
46:07Rahul Eshwar has a
46:08question.
46:08Rahul Eshwar, can you
46:09open?
46:10This government is not
46:10about...
46:11Okay, fair amount.
46:12Ma'am, you made
46:13your point.
46:14Allow me to...
46:15Okay.
46:16Rahul Eshwar, 10
46:17seconds.
46:17Go ahead.
46:18Amdithi, with great
46:20respect, I explain
46:21what's the difference.
46:21Now, please tell us
46:22what is the mechanism
46:23that when a person
46:24raises a false claim,
46:25how do you identify?
46:26When a person simply
46:28raises a false claim,
46:29how do you identify?
46:29If I feel, if I am
46:31born in a man's body
46:32and I feel like a
46:32woman, who I need to...
46:35Okay, can I give the
46:36last two minutes to
46:37Aksa?
46:38Maybe Aksa can answer
46:39your question better.
46:41Okay, Avni, maybe Aksa
46:43can answer Rahul Eshwar's
46:44questions better.
46:45And, you know, it's not
46:46about attacking anyone.
46:48It's about understanding.
46:49Rahul Eshwar, I'm glad
46:49you took the question.
46:50You answered it in the
46:51best of your ability.
46:52Let's just keep it civil
46:53and let's...
46:55Aksa, would you want
46:56to take that question?
46:58That Rahul Eshwar posed?
46:59I don't think, Rahul,
47:00you have read the
47:01amendment bill word by word
47:03because there are many
47:04errors there.
47:05Like, for example,
47:06it talks about sexual
47:07orientation and sexual
47:09identity.
47:09The word sexual identity
47:10does not exist.
47:12And I don't...
47:14I don't know how
47:18any IS officer or
47:20so naturally there's
47:21confusion between...
47:28Dr. Aksa, there's a
47:29problem with your
47:30output.
47:30You know, we can't
47:31hear you.
47:32There's a problem with
47:32your output.
47:33We can't hear you.
47:34I think there's a problem
47:35with your internet
47:36connection.
47:3620 seconds.
47:38Anish, can I bring you
47:39in and our three other
47:41panelists?
47:4120 seconds, Anish.
47:42Final comments.
47:43Preeti, the right to
47:45self-identify is an
47:47important right that
47:48has to be dealing
47:49from benefits.
47:50The right to self-
47:51identify when it is
47:53not combined with the
47:54protection of your
47:55identity is something
47:57that is unfortunate
47:58and that right to
47:59self-identify has been
48:00taken away.
48:01How can you ensure
48:02that people can't go to
48:03school, can't go to
48:04college, can't go to
48:05school?
48:05Quickly, move on.
48:0610 seconds.
48:07Can I bring in Avni?
48:09Preeti, we're listening
48:11from childhood that
48:12God Ram said that
48:14Ram Raj will be
48:16equal to Ram Raj.
48:17How is Ram Raj
48:20where the government
48:21will tell you
48:22who has a sexual
48:23identification and
48:25identity?
48:26I want to ask
48:26my existence.
48:28Okay, 10 seconds.
48:29Fair point, ma'am.
48:3110 seconds, Rahul Ishwar.
48:32I'm sorry, we've just
48:33shot on time, but 10
48:33seconds.
48:34Total respect to
48:36the activists, but
48:37it's a more nuanced
48:38debate.
48:38It's not government
48:39that decide, it's the
48:40medical boards that
48:41decide.
48:41There is a nuanced
48:42difference.
48:42But they're
48:43transgender, sir,
48:44that's the point.
48:45There is no scientific
48:46definition of
48:47transgender.
48:49It is, all right,
48:50we're going to leave
48:51it at that.
48:51I believe, you know,
48:52we just don't have
48:53the time.
48:53But we hope to
48:54discuss it in the
48:55future.
48:55It's past the
48:56Lok Sabha test.
48:56Now it has Raj
48:57Sabha next.
Comments