00:08joining me on 12 minutes with is the EU's counterterrorism coordinator Bartian Vector
00:17thank you very much for being here thank you Iran issued a global threat warning that parks
00:23recreational areas and tourist destinations worldwide will not be safe for what Tehran calls
00:30its enemies how concerned are you regarding this situation and these threats Iran has been on our
00:38agenda for a while from a counterterrorism perspective why because Iran has consistently
00:43over the years targeted individuals in the EU dissidents and try to disrupt our society I would
00:50say it's a lethal spoiler that's very well known to our services in fact tactics deployed by Iran
00:56often say are terrorist tactics we've seen assassinations we've seen like I said cyber
01:01attacks targeting of individuals and it uses it instrumentalizes proxies as well meaning it
01:07instrumentalizes criminal networks in the EU to carry out attacks so that it can then deny any link to
01:13its own regime in fact we've listed as terrorists the IRGC the Iranian Revolutionary Guard Corps as
01:19well as the the security service of Iran and we've taken measures but yes in the current context
01:25obviously it's much more of a concern than ever does that also simplify and help you to probably speed
01:32up to the process of identification of those assets and those proxies definitely I mean and this is all
01:39about intelligence and information sharing among member states that's where it comes down to and I think
01:45if you look back at what the EU has done to counter the terrorist threats let's say in all their
01:50forms
01:51whether it's state malign state interference or the traditional sort of terrorist actors that we know
01:56I think the core of our response has always been more information sharing more common approaches
02:03strengthening our borders strengthening our databases making sure that they're interoperable so that any
02:10information uploaded by one member state can be cross-checked with that of another member state and
02:14so these these are all measures that we have really put in place over the past 10 years and by
02:20the way I
02:20should I should say this is very much been driven by the European Commission that has put in place all
02:25these instruments and it is still working on many of these to strengthen our borders especially but
02:30also to look within our the EU itself you know we've we've taken measures and stepped up some members
02:36have stepped up those measures to protect Israeli sites to protect Jewish sites as well because very
02:43often it's now equated with with Israel unfortunately we've seen a rise of anti-semitism so the kind of
02:49propaganda that is generated by a conflict that we're now seeing in the Middle East is it's very worrying
02:55because this is spreading online it is affecting the divisions of some people I do want to ask you
03:02about Jewish communities in Europe there's been an increase in the rise in the attacks ever since
03:07October 7 massacre do you foresee the situation worsening now with the US Israel war on Iran I would
03:17say that in a situation as we're seeing now where global tensions are rising rising especially in the
03:22Middle East there will be reverberations on the international or the internal threat picture in
03:29the EU meaning that also when it comes to Jewish sites or anti-semitism yes we see an impact and
03:36we
03:36have seen it for a while also the the conflict in Gaza at the time now less less of a
03:43headline
03:43perhaps but that has very much generated the kind of narratives that influence some people and that
03:49radicalized some people leading to anti-semitism by the way also to anti-islam so we've seen a polarization
03:54throughout I would say if Iran now becomes this state of revenge what does that mean for Europe specifically
04:01because Europe is still at the same time not joining officially the United States going into the war against
04:07Iran but does that put Europe at the same threat level as the US the way you see it or
04:12could that be worse should
04:14Europe join the threat has been there for a while and the threat is escalating now depending on how
04:19Europe will engage or not in in that conflict that of course will affect further the the threat picture
04:26internally but I don't I don't deal let's say with the bigger picture I really focus on you know how
04:32are
04:32the lives of people in the EU possibly affected what is your assessment over the threat coming from
04:39ISIS is that over we're not yet look Islamic the jihadism let's say remains the number one threat in
04:46Europe has always been and that has not gone away over the years we've seen some new threats and I'll
04:52be
04:52happy to say a few words about but in terms of jihadism that's the number one threat to our security
04:57we've seen it coming from different regions Central Asia's one and where we see a direct threat projection
05:02what's important to say yes we defeated the caliphate or the so-called caliphate 10 years ago and ever
05:10since what we've seen and that is something that we're very closely monitoring is that IS has adapted
05:16its tactics and it's been very agile first of all it's decentralizes its command centers meaning that it
05:22has now different front lines let's say in the global war of jihad in different regions but also instead of
05:30organizing the sort of large-scale concerted attacks from outside the EU's borders it has now shifted
05:37tactics to really trying to recruit people very often young adolescents from within the EU which
05:44from their perspective is is perhaps more effective and we've seen there is a trend of increased
05:49radicalization especially of young people and all this is happening in an online environment that very
05:54much still provides a lot of space for the kind of content that leads to radicalization when you say
05:59young people what are is the if we can speak about the age range of the young people being
06:05radicalized I mean we're talking about minors age between 12 and 20 years old I mean we've seen cases
06:11of of young individuals radicalizing who were as young as 12 years old and the huge challenge for
06:18law enforcement is that young people young individuals radicalize very fast it's sometimes it's a matter of
06:26of weeks some will have mental issues or will just be vulnerable as adolescents are generally but they
06:35will not have any track record any criminal track record they will not meet physically very often they
06:39spend most of their time online so it's very difficult for law enforcement to capture this and again it comes
06:46back to the same point it's a matter of exchanging good practices sharing data sharing information but also very
06:54much monitoring the online environment which is where much of this takes place what are some of the
06:59you mentioned earlier the new threats what are those new threats if you could list some of them yes so
07:05what we've seen over the years is an increase arise in the kind of violent right-wing extremism also to
07:13agree find left-wing extremism but certainly we've seen that the the violent right-wing extremism is very much
07:25the threat to fight this kind of attack before for sure but we're not to claim that we've seen over
07:27the years and
07:27it's a huge due to the Minsk that we've been around and it's a huge conflict of this and it's
07:28a huge conflict of
07:28those networks and the L or the others and it's a huge conflict of that and and it's very much
07:31of a chance of
07:31all kinds of some I've called it a sell-it-bar terrorism sell-it-bar ideology if you will meaning
07:38that
07:38there are very often different parts of different ideology that are put together in a sort of
07:43mishmash of very negative, very violent, let's say, motivations.
07:51And the new phenomenon as we see it is, and that's particularly worrying
07:56because it's affecting very young individuals, is what we call
08:00nihilistic extremist violence, which means that it's very often driven
08:04by an online community, which is very much violent extremist
08:08or accelerationist, meaning that they want to disrupt the whole of society.
08:12Is there racism, is there misogynism?
08:15And these young people, they don't have any ideological baggage,
08:20which is why it's called nihilistic, but they're very much drawn to extreme violence.
08:25And the kind of extreme violence that we're talking about is very much also generated
08:28to come back to your earlier question about Iran, by the kind of conflicts that we're seeing.
08:32But that once again puts the youngest Europeans in utmost danger,
08:37once again, in terms of the age group.
08:38As the use of the internet has dramatically increased,
08:43I mean, young people spend about 4, 4.8 to 5 hours a day on social media,
08:48and some research has indicated that young people who spend 5 to,
08:53between 5 and 8 hours a day on social media have a chance of mental health issues,
08:58that's doubled.
09:01So we have to be concerned about the exposure to social media and to the internet,
09:06which is not to say that it's all a negative thing, but it's a matter of educating youths,
09:10but it's also a matter of dialoguing with the platforms and the industry to ensure that,
09:17you know, they take their responsibility in countering the kind of content
09:21that is leading to radicalisation of our young people.
09:25And that is, of course, a huge debate globally and in Europe specifically regarding the access
09:29to some of the platforms for the younger Europeans.
09:32And with everything that you have been saying now about how much they are in danger
09:36and how much they could be radicalised as early as 12 years old and as quickly as within few weeks,
09:43that's an argument in that debate.
09:45Definitely.
09:46And it raises the stakes.
09:49What I always say, and it's an important debate to have,
09:51because, you know, what we're often talking about,
09:53and we're all using those communications, which are encrypted communications,
09:58which is very useful and very important because it protects our privacy,
10:01it protects us against cyberattacks and all of that.
10:03But there's also a downside, unless we organise it well.
10:06The downside at the moment is that our investigators, our law enforcement,
10:11does not have the access in the context of certain investigations to access those data
10:18and to explore the communication data between individuals, malign individuals,
10:23whether it's terrorists, people plotting attacks or whatever,
10:26often criminal networks, and that is a problem.
10:29And the final question.
10:30Ten years since the Brussels attacks with the commemorations taking place in Brussels over the weekend,
10:38do you feel Brussels, the EU, being safer now 10 years past that?
10:43I would say I think we're in a much better place.
10:46And I say this also for two reasons.
10:48First of all, because I'm regularly speaking to law enforcement,
10:51the intelligence community, and they all share that assessment.
10:54That being said, we do face new threats, as you know.
10:59But we have also to be aware that even though we are in a better place today
11:06and we can never always exclude fully any major attack from happening again,
11:11but I think the chances of that happening are much lower today.
11:14Why?
11:15I think it's to the credit of our law enforcement that has been very agile in adapting to the evolving
11:22threat
11:23and is now still evolving, as I explained, to the kind of new threats that we're seeing.
11:28But we have to recognize that the threat has never really disappeared
11:32and it's unlikely to disappear in the short term.
11:35Why?
11:36Because it's very much driven by propaganda, by conflicts outside of this world,
11:42outside of our borders, as you'd say,
11:44that are very much feeding into our public narratives or our public debates
11:49and sometimes affecting also our young people.
11:51That's where we are today.
11:53Thank you very much.
11:54It's a pleasure.
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