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00:01The perfect murder, the unsolvable crime, does it really exist?
00:07In a TV first, we reveal the cutting-edge technology now used by British police to join the dots
00:15and reveal new evidence in all homicide investigations.
00:19I'm Tim Tate. I've been an investigative journalist for almost 50 years.
00:26I'm Sam Robbins, and I'm a criminal intelligence analyst.
00:30For over 20 years, I've worked alongside detectives on major murder investigations.
00:34Together, in this new series, we are going to discover the fatal mistakes
00:39which prevented the perfect murder from ever being committed.
00:44MUSIC PLAYS
01:16MUSIC CONTINUES
01:20Many killers plan what they believe will be the perfect murder.
01:26Many killers go on to put that plan into action.
01:31Very few, though, try to commit the perfect murder on the same victim twice.
01:43Emile Sillier is the rare exception.
01:46Over the space of just a few days in spring 2015,
01:51Emile Sillier tried to kill his wife, Victoria, twice.
01:57But because she did live Emile Sillier's double life as an abusive husband,
02:06a serial philanderer, a fraudster and a would-be murderer, rapidly unravelled.
02:16This case continues to be of interest to the public because it's a sexy case.
02:21It has somebody from the military, it has good-looking people, it has sex,
02:25it has all sorts that makes it titillating for the public to listen to
02:30and to hear the details of, and they can't get enough of it.
02:35In my career, this was defining for me, to be honest.
02:39I was involved in that case for three years,
02:42and it was three years of long, hard work.
02:44Emile Sillier stands out purely because of the person he was,
02:48purely because of the characteristic traits that he showed.
02:51Everything Emile did had to bring a benefit to Emile,
02:54whether that's financial, sexual,
02:56the extremes he went to to achieve those ends,
02:59you rarely see in people.
03:05Sam, Emile Sillier, what do we know about him?
03:08So he originated from South Africa.
03:12He had a relationship with a very young girl, Nicolene,
03:16and she's only 13 at the time.
03:18She becomes pregnant at 16, so she's a very, very young mother.
03:22That was the start of a pattern, a repeating pattern,
03:25of predatory behaviour by Sillier.
03:30And he likes money, doesn't he?
03:31He likes the really good things in life.
03:34I think he probably looked at himself as a bit of a James Bond figure.
03:38He liked all the latest gadgets.
03:40You know, he was very keen on money and the finer things in life.
03:43And he liked that playboy lifestyle of having multiple relationships,
03:48despite the fact that he marries some of the females
03:51that he's in relationships with.
03:53He has children.
03:54When he bores of those responsibilities, he just moves on.
03:58So Emile Silliers is all about Emile Silliers.
04:02You know, what are you describing?
04:05Are psychopathic traits.
04:07Definitely some psychopathic traits in there.
04:10And the trait that really comes out in all of his behaviours in this case
04:14is narcissism.
04:16So people like Emile Silliers often have a collection of traits.
04:20We call them the dark triads.
04:22So there's psychopathy, Machiavellianism, and narcissism.
04:26And certainly Emile Silliers has had elements of all those three traits.
04:29They sort of link together largely through this sort of common aim of manipulation.
04:34But again, this general disregard for other people, the feelings,
04:38and an inability really to connect emotionally with people.
04:43Every action that Emile takes is all about furthering his own wants and needs
04:49and exerting power and control over those around him.
04:53So his first major relationship, he fathers two children with her.
04:58He does, but he doesn't hang around very long.
05:01And he moves to the UK.
05:04So he essentially abandons his pregnant girlfriend.
05:08And then when he's in the UK, she gives birth to his son.
05:12Emile Silliers really sees other people as something that he can use for his own gains.
05:18Very quick then to move on as soon as he finds something new
05:21or the parts of his life are not unfolding as he wished them to.
05:25And he will manipulate and con people in various situations.
05:32In his late teens, early 20s, he'd moved to the UK.
05:35He'd worked a number of casual jobs before settling down in Ipswich in Suffolk,
05:40where he'd met Carly Silliers, who he subsequently married and had children with.
05:46He forms a relationship with a lady called Carly, who he marries,
05:50and then goes on to have two more children.
05:54Whilst he was with her, he joined the army.
05:56Being a South African national, he was allowed to.
05:58And from there, he initially joined the Royal Artillery,
06:01who were based in Lark Hill, just outside Salisbury.
06:05From working with them, he gravitated more towards the PTI side of it.
06:09And on getting promotion, he joined the Royal Army Physical Training Corps as a sergeant.
06:17Narcissistic individuals seek out occupations,
06:20or they'll pretend to be from occupations that exert authority and control.
06:26And what's quite interesting with Emile Silliers is that he joins the army.
06:30It's all the things that would appeal to his narcissistic characteristics.
06:34And he becomes a skier for the army.
06:38He's going on lots of skiing expeditions,
06:39and becomes really very proficient until he has a very serious skiing accident.
06:46Being married to someone like that can't be easy.
06:51No, absolutely.
06:52And actually, it leads to a breakdown of the marriage from Carly,
06:57and Emile and Carly separate.
07:00But he has to have physiotherapy as part of his recovery.
07:04And he meets Victoria, who is his physiotherapist.
07:11She is going through a divorce from a very tricky marriage,
07:17a fairly abusive marriage that she was in.
07:20So she's a vulnerable individual.
07:22It's at a time when Emile is essentially looking for his next fix and high,
07:30and next victim in terms of female relationships.
07:33So he's on the hunt.
07:34Absolutely.
07:35And, you know, I think what is really clear from the whole of the timeline
07:40is that he's got very predatory behaviour.
07:44She was a captain in the army before leaving and joining the MOD as a physiotherapist.
07:49And I think he saw her as a way to making himself appear higher up in the echelons,
07:57if you like, than he actually was.
07:59And he could use her and her connections in order to do this.
08:03So in the first few months, they were very much in love.
08:08He would love bomb Victoria.
08:10He would make her feel like the best thing in the world,
08:12and, like, he couldn't live without her.
08:14He fastens on to Victoria.
08:18What need is he meeting for her?
08:22What Emile is excellent at, as are all narcissists,
08:26is being able to look at a situation and mirror back the behaviours
08:32that they want someone else to see in them.
08:36So he knows, and he spots very quickly that Victoria is vulnerable.
08:40So he starts to inhabit all the behaviours that are going to be needed to win her over.
08:46And it's a term called love bombing.
08:48And when you see that very, very early on,
08:51when it comes very quickly and it's hard and fast,
08:55it really is a massive red flag that you've potentially got a problem
08:58because someone's trying so hard to win you over.
09:01And if you're Victoria, it's very hard to spot that, isn't it?
09:04There is no quicker way to fall in love than thinking that you're falling in love
09:07with someone who's got your values and your best interests at heart.
09:10It's not just values, though, is it?
09:14Victoria's hobby becomes part of Emile's life.
09:18Yes.
09:22So Victoria's hobby was skydiving.
09:24In fact, it was more than a hobby. It was a way of life for her.
09:27She was a free-fall skydive instructor,
09:29and she'd done over 2,500 jumps.
09:32So she was extremely experienced and very, very well respected
09:36in the parachuting world.
09:38But Cillier trained as a packer,
09:43someone who is qualified to pack the main parachutes
09:47and also the reserve chutes,
09:50which are sometimes deployed
09:51if the main canopy doesn't open or malfunctions.
09:55And by 2013, he'd got full qualifications on both
09:59and was earning extra pay as a packer.
10:04Meanwhile, back at home,
10:06Victoria has given birth to their daughter.
10:09Yes.
10:10Her first child?
10:11Yes.
10:12Emile's fifth.
10:13Yes.
10:14What's he doing around this time?
10:16So he's certainly not being the loving, attention-giving father
10:21that he should be.
10:22So that love bombing of Victoria in order to win her over
10:27has done exactly what Emile wants it to do.
10:29It's got her into a position where she's married him
10:32and she's had a child with him.
10:34He, on the other hand, is carrying on like he always does.
10:40So from the surface, everything looked almost picture-perfect.
10:43But behind that, you had a wife that was ignored.
10:46He'd spend many nights away.
10:48He would go to swinging parties.
10:50He would try and coerce Victorians going to swinging parties.
10:53Women he met there, he would meet subsequently on weekends.
10:56He was on the various dating apps.
10:58So he was constantly looking for sexual partners whilst married.
11:05Financially, how's the family doing?
11:07Not brilliantly.
11:09So Emile is also, in order to chase the highs
11:12that he so desperately needs, is gambling
11:15and he's starting to spend the family money
11:18and also his playboy lifestyle.
11:20He always wants the finest things.
11:22It's not necessarily about getting the finest things
11:25for his small family.
11:27It's about feeding himself.
11:29So the money starts to decrease
11:32and to the point where he starts to lie to Victoria
11:36about what he needs funds for.
11:38I think, first of all, one was to fund an operation for his father
11:43and then he starts to steal money from Victoria.
11:45He steals money from his own wife?
11:47Yeah, he does.
11:49I don't know whether she knew where it was going
11:52because they would never discuss this.
11:53He would never allow that conversation to happen.
11:56But she did challenge him on why money went from her account.
11:59There was one point, I think it was £6,000,
12:01went from account to three, £2,000 lump sums
12:05and he just gave her some cock and ball story
12:08about it was a bank's fault, it was this fault,
12:10it was everyone else's fault.
12:12And when she dug down into it,
12:13she realised the money had gone from her account
12:15to his account using their own sort of home computers, etc.,
12:19the IP addresses of those.
12:21Emile blamed the bank for their incompetence and he said,
12:25do you think I'm stupid?
12:28This is all your fault.
12:29You're mad.
12:30This is nothing to do with me.
12:33You're paranoid.
12:34And he made her think that it couldn't possibly have been him
12:37and it was all down to her insecurity.
12:41Emile Cillier subjected Victoria
12:44to what psychologists term coercive control.
12:48He would criticise her viciously one minute
12:53and then praise her like a princess.
12:56Next, it meant she never knew
12:58which Emile Cillier she was going to get.
13:02Coercive control is nothing to do with gender, class, age.
13:07It goes across everything.
13:09It's not the obvious broken arm, black eye violence,
13:14but that subtle coercive control
13:16where they lose control of their freedom,
13:19their confidence, their finances
13:22until they become effectively a shell of themselves.
13:24They're shut away from their friends and their family
13:26and they're just there to serve a person.
13:40We fast-forward not very far
13:42to November 2014 on your timeline.
13:47Victoria's pregnant with their second child.
13:50Yes.
13:50But Emile is not being any more faithful.
13:54No, he's not.
13:55And he has now regained enough fitness
13:58to be back skiing with the army.
14:01So he goes on a one-month skiing course to Austria
14:05and he meets Stephanie
14:07and he starts to have an affair with her.
14:10And this particular relationship will be critical
14:13in the undoing of Emile Cillier.
14:17So Emile had met a lady called Steph Goller.
14:21She became his new infatuation.
14:24Victoria had her suspicions.
14:26She certainly at times thought something was going on,
14:29but he denied it, always denied it,
14:31and would put the blame back on her
14:33that she was paranoid and ridiculous.
14:36But did she ever think he would go as far
14:38as to try and kill her?
14:40No, absolutely not.
14:41This is just a continuation of his narcissism.
14:44He started another relationship
14:46and he wanted to be with her.
14:48He told a load of lies to start this new relationship
14:51by saying he was single, et cetera.
14:54And the only way he could see out of it,
14:56if you got rid of Vicky, get rid of the children,
14:59pick up the life insurance, he could start afresh.
15:02Emile Cilliers was different to a lot of men
15:05who commit murder
15:07because, for him, he didn't want to be
15:10necessarily actively involved in that murder,
15:13as in face-to-face.
15:14It needed to be from a distance
15:16so that he could distance himself from it
15:18and he didn't feel, therefore,
15:20perhaps that he was part of it.
15:22I think once the decision was made,
15:25Emile Cilliers would have stopped at nothing.
15:27He needed to move on
15:28and to move on, he needed to get rid of Victoria.
15:32So, he plans what he thinks is going to be a perfect murder.
15:38What Emile had done is he'd taken a room at the barracks,
15:41all the shots,
15:42so on Sunday night he used to leave home
15:44and go to the barracks saying
15:46it was too difficult to drive on a Monday morning.
15:49Essentially, he used it as a place
15:51he could take other women back to.
15:53So, on that Sunday,
15:55what he did was he put the children to bed early,
15:57had dinner, put Vicky to bed,
15:58she went to bed about ten,
16:00he then went downstairs into the kitchen,
16:02he loosened the gas valve,
16:03had a gas hob in a brand-new kitchen
16:04with an emergency cut-off, as they all have now,
16:08and he loosened the nut on that
16:09to allow gas to seep into the kitchen,
16:12and he left and went straight to the barracks overnight.
16:16In the process of loosening the knob,
16:21Cilliers grazed his knuckle.
16:23He didn't notice,
16:24but there was a tiny smear of blood.
16:27He then got in his car,
16:29he didn't drive straight to the barracks,
16:32on route he stopped to have sex with his ex-wife, Carly,
16:36and then arrived at the barracks
16:38and texted love messages to Stephanie Golley,
16:43all the while knowing
16:44that the gas was building up in the kitchen
16:47and that when Victoria switched on the gas hob,
16:53she and their two children would be blown to bits.
16:58He was prepared to try and blow up the house with a gas leak
17:02whilst his children were there.
17:05I get marriages, relationships fail,
17:08I get rightly or wrongly
17:10that people then end up
17:11in some sort of violent confrontation with each other.
17:13But how rarely do you see people
17:15that are willing to allow their children
17:17to be collateral damaging and be killed?
17:20Even amongst lots of criminals,
17:22that would be seen as quite extreme,
17:24but he doesn't have this conscience in a sense
17:27that if he gets away with it,
17:29then it won't matter to him,
17:31he won't feel bad.
17:32The only real consequences
17:33that he wants to avoid is being caught.
17:38Victoria became aware
17:39when she came down the stairs on a Monday morning
17:41that there was a smell of gas in the kitchen.
17:44So when she smelt gas,
17:46she messaged Emil and said,
17:48do you know anything about this?
17:50And he said to her,
17:51have you put a stove on?
17:53And she replied immediately,
17:54well, I'd rather not, obviously.
17:56He didn't come home at that time,
17:58he just left her to sort it out.
18:00So she actually called out another gas engineer
18:02who came and found the loose nut and tightened it up.
18:08Victoria's suspicion is already building
18:10that all is not well here.
18:11So she sends him a sort of jokey text
18:16saying, are you trying to kill us?
18:18Which he reacts very badly to
18:21and obviously does what he does in every situation
18:24where he's being caught out.
18:26He tries gaslighting her
18:27in terms of making her think she's going crazy,
18:31he loves them, why would, you know,
18:33don't be ridiculous, why would I do such a thing?
18:35But by this point,
18:37Victoria's suspicions have definitely raised
18:40to the point where she thinks she needs
18:42to take some kind of protective action.
18:44And she does, doesn't she?
18:45She takes action to protect her family's finances.
18:49She does.
18:50Unbeknown to Emil,
18:52she actually writes him out of her will.
18:56That is a really strong course of action
18:58to write your loving husband
19:00out of a will should you lose your life.
19:03We know he doesn't know about this
19:05because he takes his own action.
19:09He does.
19:10So one thing that you'll always look for
19:13when you're looking at a murder inquiry
19:15is has any suspicious activity taken place
19:18prior to the incident being discovered?
19:21So one thing that the police would always look for
19:23is have any insurance policies been taken out?
19:27And lo and behold,
19:29in this case,
19:30police find that an insurance policy
19:31for £120,000
19:33has been taken out on Victoria's life by Emil.
19:37We're now coming to April 2015.
19:40Everything's coming to a head.
19:41Yes, his first attempt has failed.
19:43So within days,
19:45he's hatched another plan,
19:47which possibly was when you look back to 2012,
19:50so almost three years earlier,
19:52did he always have this in his mind
19:54that he could manipulate conditions
19:57to the point where
19:58he could encourage Victoria
20:00to jump out of an aeroplane.
20:03So Victoria and Emil
20:04already had a three-year-old child
20:06and Victoria had just had a baby
20:09five weeks prior.
20:10She obviously hadn't been jumping
20:12since she found out she was pregnant
20:14and Emil, five days after the gas leak,
20:18said to her,
20:19why don't you go and jump this weekend?
20:21It would be lovely for you
20:22to get back into it again.
20:24Victoria, thinking she had the old Emil back again,
20:27jumped at the chance
20:28and said,
20:29yes, I'd love to.
20:31She was now capable of jumping,
20:33but with two young children,
20:34she was a little bit dubious about,
20:36you know,
20:36is this a sport I want to get back into?
20:38Would I still have the same love for it
20:39now I'm a mum of two?
20:41So he convinced her to go.
20:42They would try it that weekend.
20:44So he'd come home.
20:45They'd packed up.
20:47Saturday morning,
20:48they shot up there.
20:49Now, this is April, May time,
20:51so skydiving is very weather dependent.
20:54It has to be clear.
20:55They don't jump through clouds, etc.
20:57So if it's any of that,
20:58then there's no jumping.
21:00Emil had taken a parachute out for her
21:02from the parachute centre.
21:03He had rented it for her
21:04because her own parachute was in for repairs.
21:07So that was given to him.
21:08He puts it on his shoulder.
21:09She finishes paperwork,
21:11comes over and joins him.
21:13And the little girl says,
21:15Mummy, I need to go for a wee-wee.
21:16I need to go to the toilet.
21:17So he says,
21:18don't worry, I'll take it.
21:20So he takes the little girl
21:21into the men's toilets,
21:22and he's there a number of minutes,
21:25five plus minutes.
21:26We believe that when he was in that toilet,
21:30we believe that that is when
21:31he tampered with the parachute.
21:33She goes and listens at the door
21:35and hears some sort of
21:36chingling-type noise.
21:38Difficult to describe,
21:39but sort of something in there
21:41that was a funny noise.
21:43But she comes back,
21:44a minute or two later,
21:46Emil comes out with the little girl
21:47and the parachute on his shoulder.
21:49And they have a bit of chat.
21:51They didn't get told,
21:52look, it's too cloudy today,
21:54there's going to be no jumping.
21:56But instead of putting the parachute
21:58back in the main store
22:00where all the parachutes
22:01are stored for the jumps,
22:02Emil ensures that it's placed
22:04into Victoria's locker
22:05at the airfield
22:06so that she will go
22:07and retrieve that exact parachute.
22:09So it's so calculating
22:10that he's ensuring
22:12every step of this plan.
22:13He's failed once
22:14to try and kill her.
22:16He's not going to make
22:17that mistake again,
22:18and he's going to ensure
22:19that she gets the parachute
22:20that's 40 this time.
22:22Mian insisted that Victoria
22:24put it into their locker.
22:26This was really unusual,
22:29but Victoria didn't want
22:30to make a fuss.
22:31The children needed to get home,
22:32they needed to be fed.
22:33So she agreed,
22:34and they put that parachute
22:36that he had rented for her
22:37into their locker overnight.
22:40He would have really
22:41taken some pleasure
22:43in trying to create
22:45some kind of situation
22:46that was indicative
22:47of his narcissistic beliefs.
22:49It reflects very much
22:50on his personality.
22:51There were probably
22:52less audacious,
22:54conspicuous ways
22:55in which he could have
22:56killed his wife
22:56if he really wanted to,
22:58but it really reflected
22:58on him as a person
23:00that he wanted to do it
23:01in this very almost
23:02flamboyant way.
23:06The next morning,
23:07on the Sunday,
23:09the weather had lifted slightly,
23:10and Victoria went
23:12to Netheravon airfield
23:13on her own.
23:14She drove herself.
23:16At this point,
23:17she's still expressing milk,
23:19breastfeeding,
23:20so there's some text
23:20conversations about,
23:21you know,
23:22this is quite difficult
23:23to find a private space,
23:24and, you know,
23:25I feel awkward,
23:26and I've got a sort of milk,
23:27so I might just come home,
23:28she says.
23:29And she said,
23:29no, no, don't come home,
23:30you know, stay there,
23:31it'll be great,
23:31you'll enjoy it.
23:32Jump twice if you can.
23:34Yet again,
23:35it was bad weather
23:35throughout the day,
23:36but at about 4 o'clock
23:38in the afternoon,
23:39they said that they could jump,
23:40but they would only go up
23:41to 4,000 feet
23:42as the cloud cover
23:43was very low.
23:44It was going to be
23:45a jump called
23:46a hop and pop,
23:47which meant that
23:47almost as soon as
23:48you come out of the plane,
23:49you pull your parachute,
23:51so there's very little freefall.
23:55So she said
23:56she was always nervous,
23:59but she put that down to,
24:00look,
24:00I'm going to jump for months,
24:01mum of two,
24:03you know,
24:03I've got some concerns.
24:04But other than that,
24:05you know,
24:05the parachute looked fine,
24:06there's nothing untoward
24:07about it visually.
24:09One by one,
24:11the divers jumped
24:11and she watched
24:13as their canopies opened
24:15and they floated down
24:16towards the ground.
24:18And then she lodged herself
24:20out of the plane.
24:23After Victoria left the plane,
24:25she was at 4,000 feet.
24:27Almost instantly,
24:28she pulled the handle
24:29to engage her main parachute.
24:32But to her horror,
24:33when she looked up,
24:34she could see
24:35that the lines were twisted.
24:37When you deploy,
24:38you look up
24:38and it should be like
24:39a rectangle of material
24:40above your head.
24:41Visibly demonstrates
24:42that it's deployed correctly
24:43and you can fly it.
24:44And she realises straight away
24:45something's wrong.
24:46It's not a rectangle of material
24:48and she can't use it.
24:49Victoria was both
24:51highly experienced
24:52and highly trained.
24:54She knew
24:56what to do
24:57in these circumstances.
24:58She'd been trained
24:59to cut away
25:00the main malfunctioning chute
25:02and pull the cord
25:03of the reserve chute
25:05which would get her
25:06safely to ground.
25:07When you cut away
25:08a main parachute,
25:09the reserve comes out
25:11almost instantly.
25:12You can pull it manually
25:13but it does come out
25:14as an automatic response.
25:16However,
25:17when her reserve parachute opened,
25:19she realised
25:20that only half of it
25:21was attached.
25:22On one side,
25:24the slinks,
25:24which are a key component
25:26of the parachute,
25:27were missing
25:27and her parachute
25:29was no longer attached
25:30on one side.
25:31So now she's not
25:32flying at all
25:33but it's put her
25:34into a spiral
25:35and what she says is
25:37I don't really ever
25:39look down,
25:40I don't really ever
25:41start to panic,
25:42I just spend my time
25:43trying to correct it,
25:45trying to fly it.
25:46You know,
25:46training kicks in
25:47and I try and get on with it.
25:51During the fall,
25:52Victoria was conscious
25:54of fighting
25:54all the way
25:55and she will say
25:56and she will say she fought,
25:57she fought with everything
25:59all the way down.
26:00This was her life.
26:02She thought about her children,
26:04she thought about them
26:05being left without a mother
26:06but ultimately she fought
26:08to stay alive.
26:11Spectators watched in horror.
26:14They were convinced
26:16there was only going to be
26:17one outcome for this.
26:19They have an open top
26:21double-decker bus
26:22on the apron
26:22out the front.
26:23So someone stands
26:24at the top
26:25with a pair of binoculars
26:26so straight away
26:27they put up
26:27an emergency call
26:28that they can see
26:29something is clearly wrong
26:30as she's descending.
26:32So straight away
26:32they go towards
26:33where she's heading
26:34because she's now heading
26:35away from the hangar
26:37and away from the landing zone.
26:39She is twisting in the air
26:41because of the spin
26:42of the parachute
26:43and she lands
26:44about 10 to 15 feet
26:47from a road
26:47in a ploughed field,
26:49a freshly ploughed field.
26:52By chance
26:53that field
26:55had been recently ploughed
26:57making the ground
26:58of the mud
26:59softer for a landing
27:01and frankly
27:02Victoria
27:03had also been well trained
27:04in how to protect herself
27:06on difficult landings.
27:08and although
27:09she was horribly injured
27:11with a broken pelvis
27:13and spine
27:13and a huge number
27:15of other injuries
27:16Victoria Cillier
27:18was alive.
27:30Victoria was plunging
27:324,000 feet
27:33towards the ground
27:35at a rate
27:36at a rate
27:37of 60 miles
27:38an hour
27:38and
27:39when she hit the ground
27:41spectators
27:42watched in horror.
27:44No one
27:44could surely survive that
27:46but Victoria did.
27:53normally
27:55you don't survive that.
27:58Piece of luck
27:59for Victoria.
28:00It is genuinely
28:01miraculous
28:02that she
28:03survived this
28:04attempt
28:04on her life
28:05and it was down
28:06to a couple
28:07of factors really.
28:09One
28:09is that she was
28:10an incredibly
28:11experienced skydiver
28:13so she did
28:15actually
28:15know what to do
28:17in an emergency
28:18situation
28:18not that she
28:19probably
28:20ever would have
28:20faced that
28:21in her life
28:22or ever
28:22witnessed anybody
28:23doing it
28:24but she did
28:25know what to do
28:25so she knew
28:26how to position
28:27her body
28:27in the best way
28:29to minimise
28:30injury.
28:31The other
28:32stroke of luck
28:33is that she
28:33happens to land
28:34on a freshly
28:35ploughed field.
28:36She
28:36miraculously
28:37survived.
28:38she is
28:38hideously
28:39injured
28:40with various
28:41broken bones
28:41and damage
28:43to internal
28:43organs
28:44but she does
28:45survive
28:45and amazingly
28:46she is
28:47conscious
28:48when the
28:48rescue team
28:49get out
28:50to her.
28:53The first
28:53person to race
28:54to her
28:54was a
28:55Royal Marine
28:56who was up
28:56there that day.
28:57He had a
28:58body bag
28:58in his car
28:59actually
28:59and he thought
29:00that's what
29:00they were going
29:00to use
29:01and when they
29:01get there
29:01they find her
29:02semi-conscious
29:03and groaning
29:04against all the
29:05odds
29:05and they can't
29:06believe it.
29:07They then
29:08click into
29:09safety mode
29:10first aid
29:11call in
29:12air ambulance
29:12etc.
29:14Emile was
29:14called by one
29:15of the people
29:16working at the
29:17parachute centre.
29:18They advised
29:19of the accident
29:20and what had
29:20happened
29:20and that she'd
29:21survived
29:21and was being
29:22taken to
29:22Southampton
29:23Hospital.
29:24Emile didn't
29:25say much at
29:25all.
29:26He was quite
29:26quiet on the
29:27phone for a
29:27little while
29:28and then said
29:29I shall sort
29:29some child
29:30care and I'll
29:30go down to
29:31the hospital.
29:33And learning
29:34that she'd
29:34survived the
29:35accident
29:35it wasn't
29:36necessarily
29:37bothered him
29:38too much
29:38it would
29:38have just
29:39been a
29:39little bit
29:39of an
29:40inconvenience
29:40and he
29:41undoubtedly
29:41would have
29:42tried to
29:42do it again
29:43because this
29:43was not
29:44something that
29:44he would have
29:45played on
29:45his emotions
29:46or any
29:46guilt or
29:47any worry
29:47about anything.
29:49Another good
29:50example of
29:51his attitude
29:52was he was
29:54due to go and
29:54visit Victorian
29:55Hospital in
29:56Southampton
29:57so he searched
29:58for a sex
29:59worker who lived
30:00in the vicinity
30:00of Southampton
30:01Hospital
30:02so he could
30:03go there first
30:04before going
30:04to see his
30:05wife.
30:05Who would do
30:06that?
30:07You know, you're
30:07going to see
30:08your wife who's
30:08just fallen
30:094,000 feet
30:10she's in
30:11intensive care
30:12in hospital
30:12and yet you're
30:14more concerned
30:14with can I
30:16get, can I have
30:17sex with a sex
30:18worker prior to
30:19going to see her
30:19and that sort of
30:21those little things
30:22like that really
30:23showed how selfish
30:24he was, how much
30:25he was concerned
30:26with himself above
30:27and beyond anyone
30:28else.
30:29The chief
30:30instructor at
30:31Netheravon Airfield
30:32had been the
30:33first at the scene
30:34of Victoria
30:35lying on the
30:35ground.
30:36He had scooped
30:37up the parachute
30:38after Victoria
30:39had gone
30:39but very quickly
30:40noticed that
30:41something was
30:42just not right
30:43about the
30:43parachute
30:44and that he
30:45could see that
30:45certain aspects
30:47of the parachute
30:48was actually
30:48missing.
30:49So on the
30:50Monday he
30:51called police.
30:52I happened
30:53to be working
30:53on CID at the
30:54time in
30:55Salisbury
30:55and his call
30:56came through
30:57to the CID
30:58office.
30:59As I was
30:59almost the only
31:00officer that
31:01was working
31:01on that day
31:02the call
31:03fell to me.
31:05At that time
31:06it wasn't a
31:07criminal
31:08investigation
31:08it was a
31:09let's scope
31:10this out
31:10let's see
31:11what's happened
31:11is there
31:12anything there
31:13we'll talk
31:14to Victoria
31:14we'll talk
31:15to some
31:15people up
31:15there
31:15we'll get
31:16the parachute
31:16examined
31:17and then
31:18we'll assess
31:18it from there
31:19so that was
31:19the initial
31:21phase of it
31:22if you like.
31:24So in terms
31:25of a forensic
31:27investigation
31:27especially
31:28one which
31:29involves
31:29physical
31:30evidence
31:30then that
31:31can provide
31:32clues in
31:33the terms
31:34of an
31:34investigation
31:35so where
31:36we have
31:36a damaged
31:36parachute
31:37then not
31:38only can
31:38we examine
31:39the damage
31:40itself
31:40but we
31:41can
31:41potentially
31:42link
31:43that
31:43to a tool
31:44that may
31:45have been
31:45used to
31:46cause that
31:46damage
31:47the DNA
31:48the DNA
31:48technology
31:49that we
31:49use today
31:50is very
31:51sensitive
31:52it can
31:52recover
31:53DNA
31:53from a
31:55matter
31:55of a
31:56few
31:56cells
31:56so it
31:57means that
31:58we can
31:58wipe a
31:59swab
32:00or apply
32:01a small
32:02piece of
32:02sticky tape
32:03to an
32:03area
32:04and
32:04speculatively
32:05recover the
32:07DNA
32:07of an
32:07individual
32:09the British
32:10Parachute
32:10Association
32:11had a look
32:12at the
32:12parachute
32:13and they
32:14came back
32:15to us
32:16and said
32:17look we
32:17can find
32:17nothing wrong
32:18with a
32:18parachute
32:18but we
32:19can't
32:20rule out
32:20someone
32:21manually
32:22interfering
32:22with it
32:23so that
32:23was a
32:24massive
32:24red flag
32:25then
32:25because
32:25if there
32:26had been
32:27a reasonable
32:27explanation
32:28they would
32:28have found
32:28it
32:29this
32:29obviously
32:30led me
32:30to think
32:30well who
32:31else is
32:31involved
32:32who else
32:33could be
32:33involved
32:33with this
32:35Netheraven
32:36Parachute
32:36Centre is
32:37a military
32:37base
32:38which means
32:38that to
32:39get onto
32:39the base
32:40and onto
32:40the
32:40parachute
32:41centre
32:41you have
32:42to have
32:42ID
32:43and you
32:44have to
32:44go through
32:45security
32:45to get
32:46there
32:47so this
32:47narrowed
32:48down
32:48the amount
32:48of people
32:49who could
32:49have been
32:49involved
32:50quite quickly
32:51we started
32:52to look
32:52at the
32:52last people
32:53who had
32:53been
32:54anywhere
32:54near
32:54that
32:54parachute
32:55and of course
32:56Emil Silias
32:58was one
32:58of the last
32:59people to
32:59touch that
33:00parachute
33:01so we
33:01were interested
33:02in him
33:02no more
33:03than that
33:03initially
33:04at the same
33:05time
33:06as I came
33:07in
33:07we were
33:08approached
33:08by a
33:09very good
33:09friend
33:09of Victoria's
33:13after hearing
33:14about this
33:14incident
33:15her friends
33:16one in
33:16particular
33:17decides that
33:18they really
33:19ought to let
33:19the police
33:20know that
33:20all wasn't
33:21well in the
33:21marriage
33:21I took
33:23I took that
33:23call
33:23and that
33:24call was
33:25to change
33:25everything
33:27Victoria's
33:28friend
33:28who was also
33:29a captain
33:29in the army
33:30said that
33:30she was not
33:31happy with
33:32the situation
33:32that Emil
33:33and Victoria
33:34did not have
33:35the happy
33:35marriage
33:35that outwardly
33:36they appeared
33:37to
33:37she said
33:38she'd seen
33:39so much
33:39about him
33:40that made
33:40her very
33:41suspicious
33:42about his
33:42actions
33:43on that
33:43day
33:44she actually
33:45said
33:45that if
33:45he had been
33:46anywhere near
33:46the parachute
33:47then she
33:48would be
33:48concerned
33:49that he
33:49was involved
33:51at that
33:52point
33:52Emil
33:53does need
33:53to be
33:53spoken
33:54to
33:54you could
33:55treat him
33:55as a witness
33:56or treat him
33:57as a suspect
33:57the benefits
33:58sometimes of
33:59treating people
33:59as a suspect
34:00is you get
34:01powers of search
34:01off the back
34:02of that
34:02of the house
34:03of their
34:03workplace
34:04etc
34:06as a person
34:07charged
34:07that investigation
34:08my gut feeling
34:09was I wanted
34:10him arrested
34:11I wanted that
34:12sort of control
34:13and I wanted
34:13the powers of search
34:15so I made
34:16the decision
34:16at that point
34:17we would
34:17arrest him
34:17and interview
34:18him
34:21from what
34:22you've
34:23found
34:24and laid
34:25out
34:25Emil
34:26Sillier's
34:27reaction
34:28to being
34:29arrested
34:29and questioned
34:31is revealing
34:32isn't it
34:32it's so
34:33revealing
34:33so when
34:34police do
34:34decide
34:35that they're
34:35going to
34:36go and
34:36arrest him
34:37he's actually
34:38at work
34:38so he's
34:39a physical
34:39trainer for
34:40the army
34:40by this
34:41point
34:41and he
34:42is furious
34:44that the
34:45lease of
34:46dared
34:46to arrest
34:48him
34:48in front
34:49of his
34:49subordinates
34:50because he's
34:51losing face
34:52because he's
34:53losing face
34:53and also
34:54losing control
34:55and one thing
34:56Emil Sillier hates
34:57is to lose
34:58control
34:58of the
34:59situation
35:01when a prisoner
35:02is booked
35:03they're always
35:04given the
35:05opportunity
35:05of a
35:05solicitor
35:06Emil
35:06however
35:07said
35:08I don't
35:08need a
35:08solicitor
35:09I'm happy
35:10to go to
35:11interview
35:11right now
35:12so we
35:13went to
35:13interview
35:14thinking that
35:15he would
35:15say no
35:15comment
35:16because that's
35:16something
35:17that's
35:17very common
35:17as well
35:18but not
35:19Emil
35:19he wanted
35:20to talk
35:21and he
35:22wanted to
35:22tell us
35:22everything
35:23and he
35:24talked
35:24for six
35:25hours
35:26he says
35:27things
35:27you know
35:27I'm a good
35:29father to my
35:30children but I
35:30know I'm a bad
35:31husband
35:31I don't love
35:32Vicky
35:32I want to be
35:33away from
35:34Vicky
35:34I want to
35:35leave her
35:36I'm in love
35:36with Steph
35:37I want my
35:38life to be
35:38with her
35:39he talks
35:40about his
35:41relationships
35:42with other
35:42women
35:42both at
35:43swinging
35:43parties
35:44and sex
35:45workers
35:46it's almost
35:47as if he's
35:47trying to
35:48include you
35:49in it
35:49and be a
35:49bit
35:50you know
35:50lads
35:51together
35:52you're
35:53police
35:53I'm
35:53military
35:53we all
35:54know
35:54what it's
35:54like
35:54but it's
35:55such an
35:56extreme
35:56version
35:56of what
35:57he's
35:57doing
35:57this is
35:58just
35:58putting
35:58up
35:58loads
35:59of
35:59red
35:59flags
36:00when you
36:00consider
36:01he'd
36:01been
36:01arrested
36:01for
36:02attempting
36:02to
36:02murder
36:02his
36:03wife
36:04most
36:04people
36:04would
36:04be
36:05nervous
36:06the
36:06first
36:06thing
36:06they
36:07would
36:07do
36:07would
36:07be
36:07to
36:08protest
36:08their
36:08innocence
36:08and
36:09say
36:09I
36:09don't
36:09know
36:09why
36:10you
36:10think
36:10this
36:10has
36:10happened
36:11but
36:12not
36:12Emil
36:12at
36:13no
36:13time
36:13did
36:14he
36:14protest
36:14with
36:15any
36:15urgency
36:16that
36:16he
36:17had
36:17not
36:24the
36:24police
36:25he
36:25thought
36:26he
36:26was
36:26cleverer
36:26than
36:26them
36:27yes
36:27absolutely
36:27I
36:28think
36:28he
36:28thinks
36:29that
36:29they're
36:29not
36:29going
36:30to
36:30be
36:30able
36:30to
36:30unpick
36:31this
36:31one
36:31he
36:32thinks
36:33he's
36:33got
36:34away
36:34with
36:35a
36:35perfect
36:35murder
36:36yes
36:36absolutely
36:39Victoria's
36:39at home
36:40so she's
36:40been in
36:40hospital
36:41for two
36:41weeks
36:42or so
36:42we
36:43sat
36:43down
36:43and I
36:43explained
36:44to her
36:44about
36:44he
36:45denied
36:45maternity
36:46of
36:46his
36:46little
36:46boy
36:47that
36:47he
36:47had
36:47and
36:47he
36:48was
36:48having
36:48an
36:49infatuation
36:50with
36:50another
36:50female
36:51but
36:51I
36:51wouldn't
36:51tell
36:51her
36:51who
36:51it
36:51was
36:52and
36:52he
36:52wanted
36:53to
36:53leave
36:53her
36:53I
36:53said
36:53for
36:54these
36:54things
36:55cause
36:55me
36:55grave
36:56concern
36:57and
36:57that
36:59I
36:59can't allow
36:59to be
37:00here
37:00with
37:00you
37:01because
37:02I've
37:02got a
37:02duty of
37:03care
37:03to
37:03yourself
37:04also
37:04duty of
37:04care
37:04to
37:04other
37:05females
37:05and
37:06duty of
37:06care
37:06to
37:06investigate
37:07this
37:07now
37:08because
37:08if
37:09he
37:09has
37:09done
37:09this
37:09you're
37:10at
37:10risk
37:12and
37:12at
37:13that
37:13moment
37:13she
37:14just
37:15broke
37:15down
37:15completely
37:16I
37:16think
37:17that was
37:17probably
37:18the first
37:18time
37:18when she
37:18faced
37:19up
37:19to
37:19what
37:19her
37:20marriage
37:21and
37:21relationship
37:21had
37:21been
37:21all
37:22about
37:23and
37:24then
37:24when we
37:24went
37:24to
37:25leave
37:25that's
37:25when
37:25she
37:25said
37:26well
37:26now
37:27you've
37:27told
37:27me
37:27that
37:27you
37:27better
37:28know
37:28about
37:28the
37:28gas
37:28leak
37:29so
37:30we
37:30had
37:30no
37:31knowledge
37:31of
37:31that
37:31at
37:32all
37:32until
37:33that
37:33point
37:33so
37:35absolute
37:35double
37:36whammy
37:36but
37:37after
37:37that
37:39she
37:40very
37:40much
37:40closed
37:41down
37:41and
37:42she
37:42would
37:42never
37:42accept
37:43that
37:44Emile
37:44was
37:44guilty
37:45and
37:46she
37:46wanted
37:46us
37:46to
37:46start
37:46an
37:47investigation
37:49in
37:50September
37:502016
37:52Emile
37:53Sillier
37:54was
37:55charged
37:55with
37:56two
37:56counts
37:56of
37:57attempted
37:57murder
37:58of
37:59his
37:59wife
37:59Victoria
38:20the
38:20case
38:21came
38:21to
38:22trial
38:22almost
38:23two
38:23years
38:23later
38:24and
38:24even
38:25then
38:26Sillier
38:27might
38:27have
38:28got
38:28away
38:28with
38:28it
38:30when
38:30we
38:31get
38:31to
38:31court
38:31Emile
38:32Silliers
38:33turns
38:33up
38:33he
38:34looks
38:34like
38:34he's
38:34dressed
38:35from
38:35Savile
38:35Row
38:35he's
38:36in
38:36a
38:36three
38:37piece
38:37suit
38:37he
38:37has
38:37a
38:38tie
38:38pin
38:38and
38:39he
38:39is
38:39immaculate
38:40every
38:41day
38:41he's
38:42at
38:42court
38:42he
38:43is
38:43immaculate
38:44but
38:45he's
38:45also
38:45incredibly
38:46laid
38:46back
38:47when
38:48he's
38:48there
38:48and
38:48he
38:48swans
38:49around
38:49court
38:50like
38:50he
38:50owns
38:51it
38:51not a
38:52care
38:52in
38:52the
38:52world
38:53he
38:53would
38:53sit
38:54in
38:54the
38:54dock
38:54at
38:54the
38:54back
38:55and
38:55chew
38:55gum
38:56looking
38:57bored
38:57not
38:58really
38:58paying
38:59any
38:59attention
38:59to
38:59the
38:59evidence
39:00that
39:00was
39:00given
39:01almost
39:01as
39:02if
39:02this
39:02is
39:02just
39:02pointless
39:03I'm
39:04clearly
39:04innocent
39:04and
39:04I'll
39:04be
39:05walking
39:05out
39:10where
39:10we
39:11were
39:11waiting
39:11for
39:11something
39:12wondering
39:13where
39:13Emile
39:13was
39:13and
39:14he
39:14was
39:14downstairs
39:15chatting
39:15up
39:16this
39:16young
39:16lady
39:16from
39:16another
39:17court
39:17hearing
39:18sat
39:19next to
39:19her
39:19on
39:20the
39:20public
39:20benches
39:20downstairs
39:22During
39:23the first
39:23trial
39:24Victoria
39:24Silliers
39:25was called
39:25to the
39:26stand
39:26to give
39:27her
39:27version
39:27of what
39:28had
39:28happened
39:28As
39:29soon
39:29as
39:29she
39:29took
39:30to
39:30the
39:30stand
39:30she
39:31started
39:31to
39:31go
39:31back
39:31on
39:32what
39:32she
39:32had
39:32told
39:32police
39:33She
39:34said
39:34that
39:34she
39:34hadn't
39:35been
39:35given
39:35time
39:35to
39:36read
39:36her
39:36statement
39:37before
39:37being
39:37forced
39:38to
39:38sign
39:38it
39:39She
39:39said
39:40that
39:40police
39:40hadn't
39:41kept
39:41her
39:41informed
39:42and
39:42that
39:43in
39:43actual
39:43fact
39:43Emile
39:44had
39:44not
39:44spent
39:44as
39:45long
39:45in
39:45the
39:45toilets
39:45with
39:46the
39:46parachute
39:46as
39:46she
39:46initially
39:47claimed
39:48She
39:48then
39:49also
39:49said
39:49that
39:50she
39:50thought
39:50she
39:50had
39:50cut
39:50away
39:51a
39:51good
39:51parachute
39:52I
39:53don't
39:54understand
39:54I
39:55don't
39:56I
39:56get
39:56you
39:57were
39:57ever
39:57going
39:57to
39:57accuse
39:58Emile
39:58of
39:59anything
39:59but
40:00I
40:00didn't
40:00understand
40:00why
40:01she
40:01spoke
40:01out
40:01against
40:02us
40:02so
40:03vociferously
40:04and that
40:05damaged
40:05that
40:05did
40:06damage
40:06the
40:06case
40:06a
40:06lot
40:11In
40:12truth
40:12of it
40:13I
40:13think
40:13Victoria
40:13being
40:14a
40:14very
40:15very
40:15smart
40:15woman
40:16suddenly
40:17thought
40:17what
40:18happens
40:18if
40:18Emile
40:19doesn't
40:19get
40:19convicted
40:20he's
40:20going
40:20to
40:20be
40:20at
40:20liberty
40:21to
40:22harm
40:22me
40:22again
40:23He
40:23would
40:23try
40:23for
40:24a
40:24third
40:24time
40:24Yes
40:25he
40:25would
40:25try
40:25for
40:25a
40:26third
40:26time
40:26so
40:26she
40:26wanted
40:27to
40:27appease
40:30his
40:30nature
40:30to
40:31say
40:31I'm
40:31not
40:32against
40:32you
40:32and
40:32actually
40:32this
40:33has
40:33all
40:33been
40:33a
40:33massive
40:33mistake
40:34because
40:34I
40:34think
40:34she
40:35was
40:35genuinely
40:35frightened
40:36We
40:37had
40:37a
40:37clinical
40:38psychologist
40:39assess
40:40Emile
40:40Silias
40:41and he
40:42assessed
40:43him
40:43as
40:43a
40:43narcissistic
40:44psychopath
40:45and a
40:46very
40:46dangerous
40:46one
40:47at
40:47that
40:48but
40:48Emile
40:49had
40:49an
40:49amazing
40:49hold
40:50over
40:50women
40:50and
40:51they
40:51end
40:52up
40:52in
40:52this
40:52coercive
40:53and
40:53controlling
40:54relationship
40:54where
40:55they
40:55are
40:56just
40:56pawns
40:57in
40:57his
41:00game
41:00Ultimately
41:01the judge
41:02decided
41:03to declare
41:04her
41:04what's
41:04known
41:04as
41:04a
41:04hostile
41:05witness
41:05This
41:06means
41:06that
41:07her
41:07video
41:07interviews
41:08would be
41:08played
41:08in full
41:09for the
41:09court
41:10and
41:10for
41:10the
41:10jury
41:10and
41:11she
41:11could
41:12be
41:12then
41:12questioned
41:13about
41:13those
41:13videos
41:15The
41:15jury
41:16couldn't
41:17reach
41:17a
41:17verdict
41:18It
41:18deadlocked
41:19and
41:20after
41:20two
41:20of
41:20the
41:20jury
41:21members
41:21pleaded
41:22to be
41:22released
41:23from
41:23service
41:23because
41:24they
41:24were
41:24suffering
41:25from
41:25extreme
41:25stress
41:26the
41:27whole
41:27jury
41:27was
41:28discharged
41:28and
41:29the
41:29trial
41:29stopped
41:29A
41:30new
41:31trial
41:32was
41:32started
41:33within
41:33a
41:34month
41:35In
41:35the
41:35first
41:36trial
41:36we
41:36had
41:36tried
41:37to
41:37spare
41:37Victoria's
41:38blushes
41:38but
41:39for
41:39the
41:39second
41:39trial
41:40the
41:41jury
41:41needed
41:42to
41:42know
41:42what
41:42sort
41:42of
41:42man
41:43Emil
41:43Silias
41:43really
41:44was
41:44We
41:45had
41:45not
41:45brought
41:45in
41:46the
41:46fact
41:46that
41:47Emil
41:47Silias
41:47visited
41:48sex
41:48workers
41:49He
41:49visited
41:50swinging
41:50parties
41:50He
41:51was
41:51a
41:52really
41:52unpleasant
41:52individual
41:53But
41:54we
41:54had
41:54to
41:54bring
41:54all
41:55this
41:55in
41:55because
41:56the
41:56jury
41:56had
41:57to
41:57know
41:57I
41:58was
41:58allowed
41:59to
41:59give
41:59evidence
42:00and
42:01I
42:01was
42:01asked
42:02about
42:03coercive
42:03control
42:04So I
42:05explained
42:05about how
42:05police
42:06try and
42:06deal
42:06with
42:06coercive
42:07control
42:07how
42:08domestic
42:08violence
42:09isn't
42:09just
42:09about
42:10black
42:10eyes
42:10and
42:11the
42:11obvious
42:12it's
42:12more
42:12subtle
42:13and
42:14it's
42:14a
42:14lot
42:14more
42:14insidious
42:15than
42:15that
42:15and
42:16she
42:16was
42:16a
42:16victim
42:17of
42:17this
42:17So when
42:18Vicky
42:18gave
42:19evidence
42:19and she
42:19said
42:20the same
42:20thing
42:20the second
42:21time
42:21there was
42:22a balance
42:22to it
42:22that the jury
42:23could see
42:23and I think
42:24they understood
42:25her position
42:25then
42:26By the end
42:27of the second
42:28trial
42:28we had
42:29done
42:29everything
42:30we possibly
42:30could
42:32Thankfully
42:33the jury
42:34saw through
42:34Emil
42:35and he
42:36was found
42:36guilty
42:38He showed
42:39no remorse
42:40at all
42:40Even at
42:41sentencing
42:42when the judge
42:43sentenced him
42:43to life
42:44in prison
42:44for the minimum
42:45of 18 years
42:46he didn't
42:47bat an eyelid
42:48There was
42:49absolutely
42:49no expression
42:50on his face
42:51whatsoever
42:52At the end
42:53of the second
42:53trial
42:54it was
42:54three years
42:55since day
42:56one
42:56You just
42:57wanted to
42:57jump up
42:58and down
42:58and scream
42:59and punch
43:00in the air
43:00and say
43:00yes
43:01You have to
43:01retain that
43:02professional
43:03outlook
43:04and sit
43:04there
43:05and smile
43:05I was
43:06emotionally
43:07and physically
43:07exhausted
43:09When that
43:09jury came up
43:10with the first
43:11word of
43:12guilty
43:12I broke
43:13down
43:13I broke
43:14down in
43:14tears
43:14I just
43:15couldn't
43:16contain it
43:16any longer
43:17This had
43:18been three
43:18years of
43:19hard graft
43:19but we
43:20got where
43:21we needed
43:21to get
43:21We had
43:22got a
43:23very
43:23very
43:23dangerous
43:24man
43:24behind
43:25bars
43:25and behind
43:26bars
43:27for a
43:27very
43:27long
43:27time
43:33It's
43:33nice to
43:34sit back
43:34I think
43:34you've had
43:35a really
43:35big case
43:35at the end
43:36of your
43:36career
43:36and
43:36you've
43:36actually
43:37brought
43:37it
43:38home
43:38and
43:38you've
43:38got
43:38a
43:38conviction
43:39from
43:39it
43:41what you
43:42joined
43:42for
43:42originally
43:43I joined
43:44to lock
43:44up
43:45bad
43:45people
43:46and at
43:46the end
43:46of my
43:47career
43:47I got
43:47the chance
43:47to take
43:48on someone
43:48who was
43:49truly
43:49evil
43:50truly
43:50horrible
43:52It would
43:52take a lot
43:53of work
43:53to try and
43:54rehabilitate
43:55somebody
43:55with those
43:56kind of
43:56personality
43:57traits
43:57There's
43:58often
43:58some
43:59research
43:59that
43:59shows
44:00even
44:00giving
44:01treatment
44:02to
44:02psychopaths
44:03makes
44:03them
44:03worse
44:04so they
44:05can learn
44:06emotional
44:07ways
44:07to
44:07manipulate
44:08people
44:08So
44:08whether
44:09he
44:09can
44:09be
44:09rehabilitated
44:10is
44:11a long
44:12standing
44:12question
44:13that
44:13goes
44:14against
44:14lots
44:14of
44:14people
44:14of
44:15his
44:15type
44:15of
44:15personality
44:21In
44:22your
44:22analysis
44:24what
44:25made
44:25the
44:26difference
44:26between
44:27his
44:28plan
44:28for
44:29a
44:29perfect
44:29murder
44:30and
44:31the
44:31conviction
44:31which
44:32proved
44:32it
44:32was
44:32an
44:33almost
44:33perfect
44:34murder
44:34He
44:35vastly
44:36underestimated
44:38the
44:38investigation
44:39team
44:40who were
44:41dogged
44:42in their
44:43efforts
44:43to
44:44get
44:45evidence
44:45that
44:45would
44:46help
44:46secure
44:46a
44:46conviction
44:47I
44:48think
44:48he
44:48underestimated
44:50Victoria
44:50He
44:50must have
44:51been
44:51delighted
44:52when
44:52the
44:52first
44:52trial
44:52failed
44:53but
44:54he
44:54underestimated
44:55the
44:55people
44:56that
44:56loved
44:56and
44:57supported
44:57Victoria
44:58and
44:58he
44:58most
44:59certainly
44:59underestimated
45:00the
45:00investigation
45:01team
45:02The
45:03undoing
45:03of
45:04Emil
45:04Silias
45:04is a
45:05very
45:05interesting
45:05question
45:06I would
45:07suggest
45:07his
45:07supreme
45:08confidence
45:08the fact
45:09that he
45:09talked
45:10for six
45:10hours
45:11he told
45:12us
45:12everything
45:12during
45:12that
45:13initial
45:13interview
45:13that
45:14he
45:14thought
45:14we
45:15would
45:15find
45:15on
45:15his
45:16phone
45:16his
45:17computers
45:17his
45:18laptop
45:18but
45:18he
45:18gave
45:19us
45:19far
45:19too
45:19much
45:19information
45:20and
45:21this
45:21was
45:21to
45:21his
45:22detriment
45:22ultimately
45:23when
45:23we
45:23were
45:24able
45:24to
45:24prove
45:24his
45:25lies
45:26Emil
45:27Silias
45:27may
45:28still
45:28proclaim
45:28himself
45:29to
45:29be
45:30a
45:30victim
45:30he
45:30isn't
45:31the
45:31real
45:32victims
45:32of
45:33Victoria
45:34obviously
45:35but
45:35beyond
45:36that
45:36the
45:37six
45:38children
45:39Emil
45:39Silias
45:40fathered
45:41and
45:42who
45:42have
45:42to
45:42grow
45:42up
45:43knowing
45:44that
45:45their
45:45dad
45:46was
45:47a
45:48would-be
45:48murderer
45:49their
45:50emotions
45:51their
45:51needs
45:52their
45:53psychological
45:54state
45:54often gets
45:56lost
45:56and I
45:57wish
45:58more
45:59sensitivity
45:59was shown
46:01and more
46:01attention
46:02was paid
46:02to them
46:04Emil
46:05Silias
46:06must
46:06have
46:06thought
46:07by
46:08tampering
46:09with
46:09her
46:09parachute
46:09he
46:10was
46:10going
46:10to
46:11commit
46:11the
46:11perfect
46:12murder
46:12nobody
46:13would
46:14have
46:14suspected
46:14him
46:15if
46:15she
46:15was
46:15dead
46:16and
46:16wasn't
46:16there
46:16to
46:16talk
46:17that
46:18murder
46:18would
46:19have
46:19been
46:19perfect
46:22he
46:22got
46:22a
46:22he
46:22got
46:22a
46:22he
46:22got
46:22go
46:22a
46:22a
46:22a
46:23a
46:23a
46:23a
46:23a
46:32a
46:52Transcription by CastingWords
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