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Short filmTranscript
00:12Melbourne voted the world's most livable city, unless you're a drug dealer.
00:18Then, it was the most deadly.
00:21The gangland war wasn't fought with lawyers or contracts.
00:24It was fought with bullets and betrayal.
00:28And the men pulling the trigger weren't soldiers, they were contractors.
00:33Hit men for hire, paid in cash, paid in pills, paid to make people disappear.
00:40And business was booming.
00:44There are five million stories in the Naked City.
00:47This is one of them.
00:57A murderous gangland war that's being fought on the streets of Melbourne.
01:01Police are already fearing reprisals in the wake of this latest killing.
01:05All it seems revolve around the lucrative amphetamine trade and the millions made from the industry.
01:15This was the thing that started the underworld war as we know it now.
01:19From that moment on, Carl Williams knew he was in danger, but he also swore that he'd get his revenge.
01:25And he was willing to go through and act with violence and take out his competitors.
01:30What we are looking at is a fairly brazen, execution-style double homicide.
01:36Carl was obsessed.
01:38A gunman fired at least seven shots in the head.
01:41He swore that he'd get his revenge.
01:43Why don't you admit that you murdered my children?
01:46Oh, good.
01:48Murder had now become a commonplace tactic.
01:53And we didn't have a moment to breathe.
01:55It's the worst series of organised crime killing in Australia's history.
01:59The pressure was on the Victoria Police.
02:01There's been so many murders, a special task force has been set up to catch the killers.
02:06These are the people who are willing to kill their friends, their family for money.
02:10We're dealing with some very dangerous people.
02:13There were plenty of witnesses to the brazen shooting.
02:17The murder.
02:18The crime.
02:20The war.
02:21This has got to stop.
02:31I think, in many ways, Melbourne's history has been littered with various underworld wars.
02:38You had Market Gardeners' War.
02:40You had the Painters' and Dockers' War.
02:42Generally speaking, they've been killers of other criminals, where the public hasn't really been in danger.
02:48And up till now, they've been the same of this war.
02:52But on Cox Plate Day, 2003, the runner and the driver are in South Yarra.
02:58And we thought they were gearing up to commit an armed robbery.
03:02But it was actually a murder they were looking to commit.
03:06Here, go.
03:14Get in.
03:16Get down.
03:16Get down.
03:18Nice and down.
03:19Safe down.
03:23When they left the scene, the runner calls Carl Williams and says,
03:28Carl, you know that horse you tipped us, it's just been scratched.
03:35We arrested the driver and the runner for the murder of Michael Marshall.
03:41We knew, despite the extensive web of electronic surveillance that we had, if we were going to get Carl Williams,
03:49we needed someone in the witness box.
03:51We either heard, saw or did it themselves.
03:55The driver knew he was in trouble.
03:58And right from that moment, he was looking for a deal.
04:01And we knew then that we had our first crack in the underworld code of silence.
04:12As a matter of policy, you generally don't do deals with murderers.
04:17But one of the first ones who came forward were people acting on behalf of the driver.
04:24And I said, well, if we could have him as a witness, that would really help us a good deal
04:29about the whole ongoing investigation.
04:32And what I felt at that stage was, we just needed a breakthrough.
04:45It's the 13th day of November 2003.
04:49The time is now 12.45pm.
04:54We didn't get to where we wanted to get to on the night we had arrested the driver.
04:59He didn't give us the information we needed.
05:02So we needed to get another crack at it.
05:05Slip this around it.
05:07One of the opportunities we had was to interview him over the murder of Jason Moran and Pasquale Barbaro.
05:13To do that, we had to get him out of custody.
05:16And we did that by applying to the Magistrates Court.
05:19This here jacket is for the media.
05:22OK.
05:22If they are there, you went down and put that over your head, right?
05:27Yeah.
05:27We knew he would take the opportunity to talk to us in the car on the way back to the
05:32police
05:32station and probably in the car park when we arrived.
05:40So we set up cameras in both the car and the car park to cover that conversation.
06:00Just before we go up, I want to get this straight in my mind.
06:08Are you saying that you were trying to help us when all this happened?
06:12The one I'm charged with now?
06:13Yeah.
06:13Yes.
06:14After he did what he did.
06:15Yeah.
06:16I can tell you other things too, but I can prove I tried to help you.
06:20Yeah, well, I'll be here as can.
06:22When we're here primarily to talk about Jason said that if you want to tell me these things,
06:27then I'll listen to it.
06:27Well, you can check it.
06:28In the car park, he talks about five shots going into the victim marshal.
06:35On the van on the way back just before I was arrested, I asked him, did you fucking
06:40whisper to him?
06:41Did you?
06:41And he said, yeah.
06:42And I said, where did you put them?
06:43And he said, and then you pointed, you put them all over the victim's head.
06:47Fuck.
06:48And then you guys grabbed me.
06:50And he certainly says at that stage to try and protect his own reputation and his chances
06:57of getting a deal that he didn't know it was going to be a murder.
07:01And was this the first time you were aware of it?
07:03Yeah.
07:04You must have heard the shot, surely.
07:06That's, yeah.
07:08But prior to that, were you aware of what was going to happen?
07:11No.
07:11You never spoke about it?
07:13No.
07:14I thought it was always going to be a dead collection.
07:17Of course, that was a lie.
07:18When you were in here last time, you indicated to my senior sergeant the initials CW.
07:29What was all that about?
07:31Oh, he was suggesting, I can't remember what question he asked, but that person may know
07:46a few things.
07:47I'm not sure, but I've suggested to him on the phone, I may be able to find out things.
07:52That he's talking in riddles.
07:54He wasn't talking in clear sentences.
07:57But what he was trying to do is put a hook out for us.
08:00He didn't want to be specific at that stage.
08:03He wanted to hold off to see what kind of guarantees he could get.
08:08No, we said shippers were going where and when and that sort of thing.
08:12He would be the best person to do that.
08:17You.
08:18But nevertheless, there was some information that we were able to elicit from him quite
08:23clearly on that occasion.
08:26For us, that was an important step.
08:30We knew it would find its way to Carl Williams.
08:33He's going to get it either through one of his associates or he's going to get it through
08:38a corrupt lawyer.
08:39We took that as an opportunity to use that to get that information to Carl.
08:45All of a sudden, he knows people are talking.
08:48All of a sudden, he knows he's at risk.
08:51And that was our leverage and we used it well.
08:54The driver couldn't go back to Carl Williams.
08:57He couldn't go back to that crew.
08:59And over time, he came to realise if he wanted to get a deal, he had to come on board.
09:06Still to come in the Naked City.
09:18It was, I thought, the most unusual time.
09:22This gangland war, it just took over the imagination.
09:28These are the people who are willing to kill their friends, their family for money.
09:34Carl Williams said, fasten your seatbelts.
09:37The Williams family were not just infamous, but famous.
09:41Widespread publicity.
09:43We understand that there's been some sort of confrontation inside the premises.
09:47No one deserves to die in this fashion.
09:49Carl moved quickly.
09:50The establishment, we're not going to let this occur without consequences.
10:03By December 2003, Carl Williams wasn't just surviving the gangland war.
10:09He was winning it.
10:11The Morans were broken.
10:13Mark and Jason were dead.
10:15He started calling himself the Premier because, in his mind, he ran the state.
10:21Williams had a revolving door of hired guns, ready to work for the right price.
10:31Carl was raking in millions through the drug trade, all while playing the family man.
10:36At his daughter's christening, Hilda Crown Casino, he dropped tens of thousands like it was spare change.
10:44Carl Williams wasn't just a criminal anymore.
10:47He was a brand.
10:52Carl Williams, good afternoon.
10:54Good afternoon.
10:55You've been accused of being involved in a $20 million amphetamines ring.
11:00That's just...
11:01That's got to go to court yet, so I'd prefer really not...
11:03Yeah, I understand, but you're saying that you never threatened Stuart Bateson's girlfriend.
11:08No, I never ever threatened to kill anybody, no.
11:11Aren't you scared you may get knocked yourself?
11:14No, I don't...
11:15Not really.
11:16I've got nothing to...
11:17I've got no enemies anywhere, is what I can know.
11:19Why is that?
11:20You must know something that I don't know.
11:21Well, the stuff I know, I think you should get life insurance in a hurry.
11:27We talk predominantly around the runner, the driver and Andrew Veneman as being a hit team for Carl Williams.
11:36But as his stature grew in Melbourne's underworld, we actually had people coming to him offering their services as a
11:44hitman.
11:45And Carl Williams wanted to continue his revenge against the Moran family.
11:51And he believed that if he was going to get to the patriarch, Lewis Moran, then he had to do
11:57something about Graham Kinabur first.
12:00He was really one of the most respected criminals in Melbourne.
12:08My name's Bernie Rankin. I joined Victoria Police in 1974.
12:13I went to the CIB in 1979. I worked at the Major Crime Squad.
12:19Kinabur was a prolific shoplifter.
12:20On a down day when there was nothing else going on, he'd go to an upmarket women's boutique or a
12:25menswear store and find himself some very nice clothing.
12:29He was also a very, very, very good safe broker, alleged to be a member of the Magnetic Drill Gang.
12:38They did a job, a bank at Mwilembar.
12:42Evidence of the crime was today readily visible inside the bank, where workmen spent most of yesterday breaking into the
12:49strong room to confirm the robbery.
12:51The hole they had made was roughly covered by a large sheet of paper with the safe door standing ajar.
12:57Their method of opening safes was brilliant and it was one of the largest burglaries in the history of Australia.
13:06One of the strongest leads remains the connection between the Mwilembar robbery and other safe crackings in New South Wales
13:14and Victoria.
13:15Allegedly he was up north assisting with that particular criminal enterprise and there's no doubt in my mind Kinaburra was
13:22involved in that.
13:23I don't think we ever really got to the bottom of how successful the criminal Kinaburra was.
13:29He specialised in all levels of crime.
13:33So in the weeks leading up to December 2003, we had intelligence to suggest that his life was in danger.
13:42So I went out with one of my colleagues to Graham's house in Kew and he invited us in, was
13:48very polite.
13:49We sat at the table and I said to him,
13:53Graham, you know, we believe your life is at threat by Carl Williams and his crew.
13:58And Graham said to me, better than cancer getting out.
14:1862 year old career criminal Graham Allen Kinaburra was shot several times.
14:24It's clear the man has been ambushed and executed.
14:33Graham Kinaburra had been out shopping and was coming home.
14:36And as he pulled up towards his house, two gunmen emerged and shot him dead.
14:45I was called out to Kinaburra's residence.
14:48He'd actually fired a shot in his own defence.
14:52He obviously saw the criminals coming at him and fired one shot before they mowed him down.
15:00The murder getaway car was found torched not all that far away.
15:04It looked like a professional hit.
15:06While police believe it's too early to say who may have been responsible,
15:10there are fears this latest murder may escalate the city's gangland killings.
15:17The murder of Graham Kinaburra for us as police was an escalation in this.
15:22And it certainly was something that brought Mick Gatto into it.
15:30Gatto and Kinaburra had been good friends since Mick was in his teens.
15:35Mick really looked up to Graham Kinaburra and regarded him really as, you know, a father figure.
15:43Used to call him Pa.
15:45Now, who actually taught Mick to cut a safe?
15:49I don't know.
15:51But if it wasn't Graham Kinaburra, it would have certainly been someone who was very close to Graham.
15:56Mick grew up around South Melbourne, inner suburbs boy, competent boxer,
16:01very well known in the criminal fraternity.
16:05So Mick was one of these individuals that really valued friendships.
16:11He was very, very loyal to Kinaburra.
16:15I would say that Kinaburra would have been Mick's closest friend.
16:20He was deeply impacted by the death of Graham.
16:26So on the day Graham Kinaburra was killed, it was a really significant escalation in the underworld war.
16:33The establishment were not going to let this occur without consequences.
16:39Mick Gatto started making inquiries on who was responsible.
16:48What's cooking, good looking?
16:50Hey buddy, what's going, mate?
16:51Any cash in the camp or what? We're all starving here, mate.
16:54No, it's fast, mate.
16:56Broke, mate, broke.
16:57Car.
16:58It's so fucking good, mate.
16:59What are you doing, buddy?
17:00These things have got to change, mate.
17:02Can't be fucking cars full.
17:03I know, mate. What can you do, bud?
17:06All the rats are making the money and we're fucking starving.
17:09Yeah, I know, buddy.
17:26Not long after Graham's murder, Mick Gatto met with Andrew Veneman and Carl Williams at the Crown Casino.
17:34We had footage of that meeting.
17:36Carl was asked by Mick Gatto, were you responsible?
17:41And he asked that question directly of both Carl and Andrew.
17:44They both denied having anything to do with it.
17:49Mick Gatto believed that Andrew Veneman was responsible for that murder.
17:55We knew he wasn't because we had a listening device in his car and we knew that he was on
18:01the other side of town when that murder was committed.
18:04So we knew it wasn't him.
18:06But there was no convincing Mick Gatto of that.
18:15Hello.
18:16What's going on, buddy?
18:19Hey, what's happened to you?
18:21Oh, mate, just quiet.
18:22Huh?
18:22You're giving me the ass.
18:24Mate, don't even say that, mate.
18:26You'll offend me.
18:27I haven't heard of you for a month.
18:29You know, I swear to you, mate.
18:31Every bike I've rang off this phone...
18:34Yeah?
18:35...been raided.
18:36Oh, fucking I'm used to that, mate.
18:38I'm not worried about being raided, I think.
18:40Got nothing to hide?
18:42I've just been quiet, mate.
18:44Yeah.
18:44Well, you know, they tell me in the dance, we've got a dance buddy, you know?
18:47Yeah.
18:48I've been meaning to drop in at that joint where you're there.
18:51Mate, I'm there every day, buddy.
18:53Every day we're there.
18:54I'll drop in there.
18:55You're welcome any time, mate.
18:57See you, buddy.
18:57Bye, mate.
19:19On that particular day, Mick Gatto rang Andrew Veneman.
19:23And we know Mick Gatto said to him, Andrew, come and see me.
19:27He went to the restaurant where Mick Gatto was that day.
19:59We understand that these bones are all right.
20:00There's some sort of confrontation and an altercation inside the premises.
20:05Veneman is the 23rd gangland killing in the past five years.
20:10Gatto was taken into custody shortly after the shooting
20:13and continues to be questioned by detectives
20:15from the Underworld Piranha Task Force.
20:19Mick ran an argument at trial saying that he'd acted in self-defence,
20:25that Andrew Veneman had pulled a gun on him.
20:30And he'd reacted, got the gun off him and shot him dead.
20:36Andrew Veneman, from our point of view, was a dangerous individual.
20:42He was a guy that would do anything.
20:48He would not hesitate to take up a gun and shoot people.
20:54And there was a feeling that if we were in danger
20:57and there were certainly threats made against a number of us,
21:00that Andrew Veneman wouldn't hesitate to take action.
21:04And in some ways, there's some begrudging respect from the task force
21:10for Mick taking that action.
21:13At one stage, we were taking Gatto down the lift
21:17and Mick said,
21:20boys, when it's time to dance, you've got to get on the dance floor.
21:26The fact that Andrew Veneman died is a bad thing.
21:29It's not the sort of thing we want happening here in Victoria.
21:33We can't exclude the fact that there will be further killings.
21:37We have fears for Mr Williams' safety, yes.
21:40Carl Williams declined the offer to be interviewed
21:42but said that despite police predictions
21:44there would be more Underworld slayings,
21:46he wasn't in fear of his life.
21:48Today he arrived at the scene
21:50but had little to say on the murder of his friend.
21:54At first, he got into a stranger's car
21:56and ordered him to drive
21:58then locked himself in a petrol station toilet
22:00rather than face the waiting media.
22:03Someone's been shot.
22:04Is there anything you'd like to say to the family?
22:05Nothing to say to anyone.
22:06I'm waiting for a lift.
22:08After Andrew was killed,
22:10Carl Williams said, fasten your seat belts.
22:13And a week later, Lewis Moran is dead.
22:24Things were starting to come apart for Carl Williams,
22:27the self-declared Premier.
22:29The killing of Graeme Kenneborough was a fatal misstep.
22:34Old school criminals don't forget that sort of thing.
22:38Then he lost his enforcer,
22:40Andrew Benji Veneman,
22:43shot by Mick Gatto in a restaurant standoff
22:45that ended with a gun, a struggle and one dead hitman.
22:50With Mick Gatto arrested and awaiting trial,
22:53fellow Carlton Crew associate Mario Candelo
22:55was now quietly out for payback.
23:00Still, Carl wasn't done.
23:02He had Kill Crews on the move and one obsession,
23:05wiping out what was left of the Moran name.
23:11Lewis Moran was, you know,
23:14he was well-known in the racing industry.
23:16He was well-known in the drug trafficking industry.
23:19He was just a guy that was always around the edges
23:23and would make a deal and sell out his friends.
23:26Not a great crook in my view.
23:30Lewis perhaps always knew he was under threat.
23:33He obviously wanted to take revenge on Carl Williams,
23:37but also to protect his own well-being.
23:40But he was not being overly generous
23:42in terms of the right to kill Carl,
23:44so he had some issues attracting the right person to do the job.
23:51And we warned Lewis he was in danger,
23:54but he was taking virtually no steps to protect himself.
24:01He continued to drink in the same bar,
24:04in the same position in that bar every night.
24:09We're not going away our first time,
24:10but he was suddenly out there.
24:10He was and he grabbed his own way and how he managed it,
24:24He was going to wait for him.
24:25And he finally caught his own way.
24:25For sure, he is taking the best time,
24:25but now he's lucky enough to take him away.
24:27but he's gonna have anything from him,
24:29He can't really do anything.
24:29He can't run away his own way,
24:29I'm trying to lose the time of the world.
24:36He was trying to get to his own way.
25:06The 24th victim in Melbourne's gangland war was claimed in a busy RSL around 6.30 in the evening.
25:13Two men wearing balaclavas brazenly opened fire while patrons played poker machines nearby.
25:19It was only a week after Andrew Vetterman was shot. Carl moved quickly.
25:23Regardless of anyone's circumstance in life, no one deserves to die in this fashion.
25:27And it's quite outrageous that this is happening in Melbourne.
25:30Two murders in a week brought pressure to the Victoria Police that we'd never experienced before.
25:35And I remember seeing Simon overland that night and you could see there was pressure.
25:41We appreciate the gravity of the situation and we're certainly continuing to do everything we can to bring this stupid
25:47and senseless killing to an end.
25:49Internally, we knew we were getting somewhere, but publicly it looked like we were powerless to do anything about what
25:56was occurring almost weekly in Melbourne's underworld.
26:02Three Moran's have now been murdered in less than four years.
26:06The killing comes just a day after slain underworld figure Andrew Vetterman was farewell during an open casket service.
26:13Suspected of being responsible for five gangland slayings, the hitman was shot in the eye at the La Puchella restaurant
26:19last Tuesday.
26:21Carl was desperate to revenge the murder of Andrew Vetterman.
26:26Another part of his crew were looking to kill Mario Condello.
26:33Carl believed that Mario was the last remaining threat to him and his safety from the Carlton crew and thought
26:40he should take him out.
26:53What Carlton and the kill crew believed is that he walked his dog past the North Road Cemetery every morning
27:00and that's where they were going to commit the murder.
27:15On the day, we had surveillance on them, we had a list of advice in the car.
27:21I was in the control room listening to what was going on.
27:38They believed they saw him walking along the street.
27:49We knew that Mario Condello was safe.
27:52If he was in a city apartment, who they saw was an unknown other man, completely innocent, and they were
28:00on their way to kill them.
28:03I'm not going to get a good deal of advantage to me, but I'm going to have to walk up.
28:06I'm just going to hang around and walk up the side.
28:12Gavin Ryan, our inspector, called in the SOG, and just before they were about to shoot this innocent man, they
28:20were arrested by the SOG.
28:21They were shocked as anyone.
28:28Piranha detectives who were investigating Melbourne's gangland war bagged evidence, including a gun, at the scene.
28:35The target was a close associate of accused killer and underworld figure, Mick Gatto.
28:41This was a build-up of months, years of work, working on Carl Williams and his crew.
28:47We had police from all over the state executing warrants in various locations.
28:54We wanted to bring the whole crew into the police station under arrest.
29:00150 police then raided premises at Baronia, Clifton Hill, Essendon, Noble Park and Wanturna.
29:08Carl Williams was remanded in custody for conspiracy and incitement to murder.
29:13I quickly moved to arrest Roberta Williams, but she was not present.
29:19We went back to police headquarters and it wasn't long after that Roberta attended the police station and presented herself.
29:28She was arrested in the foyer of St. Kilda Road and taken up for an interview.
29:38Roberta tried to present herself as an innocent person in front of the media, but as soon as she got
29:44behind closed doors, I've perhaps never seen her so abusive.
29:52She felt the pressure that was finally coming to bear on her family.
29:59That was the turning point for Carl.
30:02I think he realised at that point he was in for a real legal battle.
30:06He started to realise that he was in a bit of trouble.
30:11But more importantly, that arrest received widespread publicity and watching from his prison cell was the driver.
30:23Now, he'd been hanging out to make a much better deal.
30:36Two days later, I was down at Barham Prison with my crew taking statements off him, implicating Carl Williams in
30:43the murder of Mark Moran, Michael Marshall, Jason Moran and Pasquale Barbaro.
30:52Although we had a huge amount of information, we just needed a witness, because this was the most important breakthrough
31:00that we'd had in the criminal law in Victoria for a very, very long time.
31:11By June 2004, the body count had hit 29.
31:17Melbourne's gangland war wasn't just a crime spree, it was a rolling crisis.
31:22That month, Carl Williams was finally arrested.
31:26He was charged with conspiracy to murder Mario Condello.
31:30The tide was turning.
31:32Behind the scenes, the Piranha Task Force was building something bigger.
31:36A case linking Williams to the murders of Mark Moran, Michael Marshall, Jason Moran and Pasquale Barbaro.
31:44But Carl wasn't talking.
31:49Carl, you've remained mute for questions that clearly appear to be in relation to this matter.
31:55Is it your intention to remain mute for the remainder of the interview in relation to any questions asked about
32:00this offence?
32:04We knew that if we were going to get Carl Williams, then we had to get a cooperating witness on
32:09board.
32:10We needed someone in the witness box who either heard, saw or did it themselves.
32:17We'd had listening device in the car, which had given us some material, but I was by no means certain
32:27that we would, in a trial, have enough.
32:30Where were we going to be right before the interview proceeds?
32:32Where were we going to go from here?
32:36So a man like the driver, you're coming down right to the nitty gritty to saying, what would you prefer
32:42to serve?
32:4320 years or 10 years?
32:45There's a bit in it for him.
32:52My name's Betty King, and I ran the trial with Carl Williams.
32:58When people wonder about how deals are done, how it works is the police do the work on it.
33:05They try and get the person to roll over.
33:07Police will then take that to the Office of Public Prosecutions, but they can't guarantee the sentence because that decision
33:18rests entirely with the judge.
33:20The judge is in a position where they are, by law, required to give certain discounts.
33:27One for cooperation, two for remorse, three if the level of cooperation makes a difference.
33:33So you can get a discount for 5% of what would be a sentence to up to 50, depending
33:40upon how incredibly important your information can be.
33:44And the judge determines that, no one else.
33:47You don't like making concessions because they're bad men.
33:51But what I felt at that stage was we could make things happen if we made a brave decision.
34:00In just two weeks, Carl Williams will face serious criminal charges in the Supreme Court.
34:06Williams stands accused of conspiring to kill former lawyer Mario Condello and the murders of Michael Marshall, drug rival Mark
34:14Marley, Asquale Barbaro and Jason Moran.
34:17Well, this is again another example of significant progress of the task force.
34:24It was heard in the Supreme Court because the Chief Justice thought it was important that it be seen there,
34:29but it caused such logistic nightmares because there was such concern that he would be the subject of revenge.
34:38He had snipers all around the building.
34:40It was just out of control.
34:45So the first of the trials was the murder of Michael Marshall.
34:53He was murdered in front of his five-year-old son.
34:58And it's a big execution.
35:01It's nasty.
35:02It's lots of blood and gore.
35:06We were concerned had we provided enough evidence.
35:10Had we convinced the jury that he was guilty.
35:13We knew he was, but could we convince the jury?
35:17Without the driver, they'd have a problem connecting Williams.
35:22Often people in that position are not very satisfactory witnesses.
35:26And that's always a worry because how will he be seen by a jury?
35:33He was a nasty piece of work.
35:36Convicted rapist.
35:54When the jury came back and the foreman said the words guilty, it was the moment that we'd all been
36:05waiting for.
36:06I'd like to thank the Piranha people who have worked their guts out to get the result that the public
36:13deserved.
36:15We knew we'd had success.
36:19That conviction was integral in terms of bringing other witnesses on board.
36:25And as much as I knew that the driver would always come on board, I was equally certain that the
36:32runner would never do so.
36:33He was a career criminal, hated police.
36:36I never suspected that he would give evidence against Carl.
36:40I was shocked when he actually wrote to the Chief Crown Prosecutor suggesting that he was willing to do just
36:46that.
36:46The reason why Carl Williams didn't pay him the money it was meant to.
37:01The Piranha Task Force finally chalked up its first real win in the gangland war.
37:08Carl Williams still had a stack of matters waiting for him in the Supreme Court.
37:12But on the first murder charge, the jury didn't hesitate.
37:16Guilty.
37:18When the jury came back and the foreman said the words guilty, it was the moment that we'd all been
37:25waiting for.
37:27That conviction really helped the runner come on board as a witness.
37:33As it turns out, he felt completely abandoned by Carl Williams.
37:38In lots of ways, he was paid in little dribs and drabs and he lived a reasonable lifestyle.
37:45Carl put him up in a service department in the centre of the city and gave him spending money and
37:51he lived a great life.
37:52But the reality is Carl promised that he would give him a house that was under construction
37:59and that was part of the payment for the murders he committed on Carl's behalf.
38:03That never came to fruition.
38:06Carl never did that.
38:07Carl Williams dutted him on the deal to kill Michael Marshall.
38:11And for the runner, that was a final insult.
38:14And he saw the driver getting a great deal.
38:18He wanted some of that.
38:19His loyalty to Carl was gone.
38:23The dominoes were falling.
38:26One by one, the very gunman Carl had hired to eliminate his enemies and clean up his problems
38:31were now lining up to talk.
38:34The underworld's sacred coat of silence shattered.
38:37There were a whole lot of people obviously talking to the police.
38:43It wasn't whether he was going to be convicted of one or two or three or whatever it was, extra
38:48murders.
38:49If he was convicted of one other murder, he was life with no possibility of release.
38:58Security was tight as Carl Williams arrived this morning at the magistrate's court.
39:03The final chapter came when I'd been in court listening to another application to adjourn this off because
39:12there were so many delaying tactics that were used and I had refused it and said, no, we are starting,
39:18we are impanelling a jury tomorrow.
39:23And then about three o'clock, my associate got a call to say that Williams was willing to plead guilty.
39:32And I said, fine, let's do it now.
39:36So my associate rang the cells and said, let's bring Williams up.
39:43And they said, oh, we've sent him back to Barwon.
39:48And apart from being totally gobsmacked that he had been sent back to Barwon, I said, well, just, you know,
39:54tell them to bring him back.
39:56So about ten minutes later, my associate comes in and says, oh, they said they can't.
40:01He's on the freeway down to Barwon and they can't turn the van around.
40:06And I just said, tell them if they don't turn the van around, they can do his time instead because
40:12I'll deal with them for contempt.
40:15Just tell them to do a U-turn and bring him right back right now.
40:21So at about half past four, he arrived around about five o'clock.
40:26We arraigned him and he pleaded guilty.
40:29Today, Carl Williams was still the smiling assassin as he sat in the Supreme Court dock and learned of his
40:34fate, life in prison, with a 35-year minimum.
40:38He'd loosened his tongue and admitted to the offences to get that all-important parole date.
40:42His mother started her tirade inside the packed court soon after her son was sentenced.
40:47Betty King's a piranha puppet.
40:49He doesn't deserve to wear her wig and her gown.
40:52She's never given Carl a go from the start.
40:54She doesn't believe what he says.
40:56She believes what everybody else says.
40:59She's not God.
41:04At the conclusion of my sentence, when I'd just given him life with a minimum of 35 years, he stood
41:13up and he said,
41:14I'd like to make a statement, now, this isn't television, this isn't America, so it was never going to happen.
41:25So I just said, remove the prisoner, and they did.
41:29And I think he yelled out, ah, get fucked, something, you know, wonderfully expressive.
41:36And he went back down to Barwon.
41:41The sentence is given Williams the dubious honour of having the equal highest term among the state's prisoners who are
41:47eligible for parole.
41:52He'll be eligible in the year 2042, when he's 71.
41:58Carl Williams was underestimated.
42:02I believe he snuck under people's radar because of his persona.
42:06But there was no doubt Carl Williams was dangerous.
42:09And he was willing to go through and act with violence and take out his competitors.
42:20You know, the first murder of Mark Moran, yes, it was, at that point, another murder in a long line
42:30of murders.
42:33But, you know, when I think about the murder of Jason Moran in front of all those kids and talking
42:40to those children and the parents of those children in the back of the van has left an impact on
42:46me.
42:46You know, I don't think that's something that I'll ever forget.
42:50And when Michael Marshall was killed in front of his five-year-old child and speaking to that child afterwards,
42:57that really sticks in my memory.
42:59And I think, you know, it does leave a lasting legacy.
43:04You know, these will be things that I'll remember clearly for the rest of my life.
43:10But there's been things that have had huge impact, not only on me, but on my colleagues.
43:17And there's many members of Piranha who would sit here equally and say that the things that happened and the
43:26murders and the experiences we had during that period,
43:29have left a lasting legacy on them and, you know, for their families.
43:44It was, I thought, the most unusual time.
43:49Just took over the imagination.
43:55And then the media sold it to the public and it was just the story.
44:01The Williams family were famous.
44:04Not just infamous, but famous, like celebrities.
44:07Media treated them like celebrities.
44:10But a lot of these people are brought up with no morality in that this is the milieu in which
44:16their families lived and they just move into it.
44:20And they just all cheated each other.
44:23Carl didn't pay anyone properly for the hits he got them to do.
44:28Now, unsurprisingly, they rolled on him in the end.
44:31But it's not a world in which loyalty or fairness lives.
44:37It's a crooked world where they jiff each other out of minor stuff.
44:43I don't think they made nearly as much money.
44:46I don't think they had any real fun.
44:48The girls were far from pretty.
44:50And I don't think it was sex, drugs, rock and roll.
44:53Because this was only ever about money.
44:56And who controlled the pill market?
45:04Next time in The Naked City.
45:07Barwon Prison goes into lockdown.
45:10Police remain on edge, fearing there may be more chapters in the underworld script to come.
45:14If Carl Williams is talking, what danger does he pose for me?
45:19It's very difficult to trust someone like Carl Williams.
45:21And there's no doubt those concerned people on the outside had conversations with people on the inside.
45:29Some of these people, they give the vibe of evil instantly.
45:33He was dangerous.
45:35He had a look of malevolence that I've not seen before or since.
45:39I always felt as if he was trying to get into my head.
45:43You would start with armed robbery and very easily progress to becoming a career hitman.
45:48Nobody frightened me in a courtroom until he did.
45:53Pillows had been placed over their heads to muffle the shots from a heavy calibre handgun.
45:58They'd both been executed.
46:00It was devastating.
46:02We're talking about armed offenders.
46:04It's a highly risky business.
46:05It does seem to be a training ground that you would start with armed robbery and easily progress to murder.
46:10When do we know that we'd be able to pull something off like that?
46:15When we think of hitmen, they're violent.
46:17They're psychopathic.
46:19They're the lowest form of humanity there is.
46:22The fourth form of humanity there is.
46:26The most reasonable reason was that he and the brain is a natural tool.
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