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00:03I'm Steve Peo, a former Scotland Yard murder detective inspector.
00:08I'm going to take you deep inside murder investigations.
00:13Opening my contacts book for the first time.
00:17To reveal the secrets of what it really takes to be a murder detective.
00:21On the front line, exposing how we solve the most penis of crimes.
00:31Welcome to secrets of a murder detective.
00:40The murder of John Hay in March 2012 was one of West Yorkshire's most challenging cases.
00:46I'm going to be meeting the senior investigating officer on the case to reveal what really happened.
00:51The pressures, the setbacks and the methods in the investigation that brought the killer to justice.
00:56I am Lisa Griffin and I was a senior investigating officer with the Homicide and Major Inquiry team within West
01:03Yorkshire Police in 2011.
01:06Hi Lisa, thanks very much for coming in.
01:08Hello.
01:12Lisa, the incident we're going to be talking about today stems from March 2012.
01:16What were you doing back then? What was your role?
01:17I was a detective superintendent. My role was a senior investigating officer in the Homicide and Major Inquiry team within
01:25West Yorkshire Police.
01:29An incident was reported to police. When did that first come to your notice?
01:33The police took a three-nines call of a missing person on March the 13th, 2012.
01:40Thank you for calling 999. Port your emergency please.
01:42The missing person was an adult male, aged 61, called John Hay.
01:47He'd failed to return at the end of his working day.
01:51It didn't come to my notice until March the 14th, 2012, when the missing person was raised to high risk.
01:57The reason why this became a high risk missing person was because of concerns that it was very much out
02:04of character for John.
02:05He was a creature of habit and he had no reason to absent himself or to be missing.
02:11He was regarded by colleagues and by his family and friends as a very kind man, a very helpful and
02:19very gentle man.
02:20So he had no known enemies. No one was volunteered to us as a potential suspect who might wish him
02:27harm.
02:28And everybody who knew him were puzzled.
02:31So when a missing person report comes in to the police, they will be looking for what we call signs
02:35of life.
02:36So when we go about our everyday business, we leave a trail behind us, be it when we use our
02:41credit card.
02:42We use our telephones, most of us, on a regular basis.
02:46There was a trace of him, but that had stopped. So he was failing to return calls.
02:51Family and friends were ringing his mobile phone. He didn't pick up. Messages were left.
02:56They were not returned. Text messages were not returned. And that was very unlike John.
03:02Every effort was made to trace John Hayes' vehicle, which was a van. It was his works van.
03:06And it had triggered ANPR cameras and it had followed a route that had taken it through to Humberside.
03:14So the question was asked, why? Why would he go to Humberside?
03:18And there was no good reason for that. This was completely out of character.
03:21Eventually, the activity on his phone stopped completely at Humberside.
03:28And also the movement of his vehicle stopped in Humberside.
03:32All right. So that's going to be key for you now. That is the location, the significant location.
03:36So first of all, we put an inquiry through to Humberside police.
03:40And very helpfully, they put their helicopter up, which resulted in the vehicle being found in a location close by
03:48the Humber Bridge.
03:51So that must have been a really encouraging time for you as the SIO that we're onto something here.
03:57Absolutely. And my first request is to see if there's any signs of life in the van. Is John in
04:02the van?
04:03Secondly, I need to forensically examine that van. So I dispatched a team from the Homicide Major Inquiry team across
04:12to go and assist in that process.
04:13Right. So at this stage, you're still not being treated as a murder. It's still a high risk missing person
04:20inquiry.
04:20But you're doing all the things that you would do in a murder because you have to. You can't get
04:26it back later on.
04:27You have to act like the worst has happened.
04:29That's right. I don't want to miss opportunities to recover forensic evidence. So I'm going to treat it as a
04:34crime scene.
04:35At such a point that John Hayes found safe and well, nothing is lost. So it's always worth doing a
04:43thorough investigation.
04:44So essentially, you're preparing for the worst but hoping for the best.
04:47Exactly.
04:51To find a missing person, it's really important you build up a picture of their life.
04:55Who's involved, who are their contacts, where do they go, what are their habits, etc.
04:58So when you did that for John, what were you getting back? What did you learn about him?
05:03What we found out about John, he was a retired police officer.
05:07He'd worked as a traffic patrol officer and he'd retired on ill health grounds.
05:12He then set up a business as an independent builder.
05:16And he had a very good reputation in Huddersfield.
05:20And all his customers came pretty much through word of mouth.
05:24Did you know him personally? Did you come across each other?
05:26I didn't know him personally, but many of the officers that I work alongside did know him personally
05:31and had worked with him in the past.
05:33So that would make this quite personal, wouldn't it?
05:35If you are investigating a high-risk missing person of someone who tends to come to harm
05:41and people on your team know him.
05:42Absolutely.
05:43And it gives me a better picture of the kind of man that he was.
05:46And I'm getting that information from people who I know to be as reliable sources.
05:52What came across to me when I was speaking to Lisa was how the fact that John was a former
06:00police officer
06:01within West Yorkshire and that he was known by some of her team,
06:06that was clearly an extra motivator for them to get justice for a former colleague.
06:12We conducted a search of the van.
06:14What we noted about the vehicle was that the seat, the driver's seat, had been pulled forward.
06:19Was John a tall fellow?
06:20John was six foot four.
06:21Right.
06:22And he would certainly have had the seat pushed back as far as it would go.
06:26And also it had been parked skewiff in the parking bay.
06:33That's going to raise your concerns, isn't it?
06:35This does raise my concerns because clearly the person driving that van was not somebody of six foot four height,
06:43somebody who hadn't parked it in the way that John would.
06:46So it's definitely raising the ante in terms of who is driving that vehicle.
06:50And if not John, who?
06:54We were wanting to trace John's last known movements.
06:57And when we spoke to his family, they told us that John had taken the grandchildren to school.
07:04As he often did.
07:06And their understanding was that he'd then gone to see a prospective new client to give an estimate for some
07:12building work.
07:13So I wanted to know who was that client.
07:18John's diary was located.
07:20And in there was an entry with a name and a phone number.
07:23We wanted to know who was the named person, which was Eric Johnson.
07:27So that was given to our intelligence department to do some research,
07:31to try and identify the Eric Johnson that he was meeting.
07:34And also work was done around the telephone number.
07:39Phone enquiries came back with the fact that this was a pay-as-you-go sin
07:44that had been used to make two phone calls, two outgoing calls only.
07:49And those were made to John Hayes' landline.
07:52Now, as a murder investigator, when you say that, I'm feeling the hairs on the back of my neck stick
07:56up.
07:56Because, first off, when a phone comes into an inquiry and it's not registered to anybody, there's a little red
08:03flag there.
08:05But only two phone calls on that number, and that only to John, that's suggesting to me that that phone's
08:13been set up with the purpose of just phoning John.
08:16Was this your kind of thought process at the time?
08:19Yes. And to confirm that, we went to the shop where the SIM card was purchased from a shop in
08:26Huddersfield.
08:27I sent officers to the shop to make enquiries as to who it was that had purchased the SIM card.
08:32They came back and reported that the shopkeeper had no recollection of this.
08:38But I wasn't satisfied with that.
08:41So I sent one of my detectives from my team to go and interview the shopkeeper more thoroughly.
08:47And as a result of that, the shopkeeper gave us an account saying that a man had come in telling
08:53him that he had a problem,
08:55that he wanted to make a call but did not want the person he was calling to recognise his number.
09:00The shopkeeper advised that he buy a SIM, put it into his phone, make the call and then remove it
09:07from his phone and discard it,
09:09because that way he could protect his identity.
09:11But the customer didn't understand what he meant, so the shopkeeper actually put the SIM card into his phone
09:17and helped him understand that he could now use it and it would generate a new number that wouldn't be
09:23recognised by the person he was trying to call.
09:26And off he went with his phone with a new SIM card in it.
09:31That is a fantastic piece of police work there, because how easy would it have been for you to accept
09:37that what the first officer was told was the truth?
09:42By not accepting what came back from that first officer and then sending somebody else down there, somebody that you
09:49trusted,
09:50that's a fantastic piece of information, you've just turned up there, that without that would have made your enquiry much
09:57harder.
09:57So hats off to you, Lisa, for doing that.
09:59Yes, I have some really good staff that I can rely on and you've got to give it your best
10:05effort
10:05and it simply wasn't acceptable to be told, oh no, we don't remember someone coming into the shop.
10:11For me, that wasn't good enough, because this was an absolutely key line of enquiry.
10:23The determination by Lisa not to accept what seemed to be the obvious reason for John's disappearance
10:31undoubtedly laid the groundwork for the result that came.
10:36In the police there's a principle known as ABC, accept nothing, believe nobody, challenge everything.
10:44A principle perfectly demonstrated by Lisa in this case.
10:51So we do enquiries at the phone shop to establish if they have CCTV,
10:56so we can capture some images of the man that went into the shop.
10:59Unfortunately there were none, but adjoining premises, a bank, had CCTV,
11:05which gave a view of the shop and the footage there showed a grey-haired man
11:09with a little white dog going into the shop.
11:12And that man matched the description as described by the shopkeeper.
11:17When you sent your officers to Humberside to make enquiries around where John's van was abandoned,
11:23what sort of information were you getting back?
11:25The van was abandoned in a car park, very close to the Humber Bridge, and nearby was a cafe.
11:33The officers went to the cafe to make enquiries there.
11:36They gave a description of the man that came into the cafe.
11:38It's been an ageing man with grey hair and a small white dog.
11:43When we reviewed the footage from the helicopter, we could see that there was a male with grey hair and
11:48a dog
11:48who had approached the cordon and was speaking to officers at the crime scene.
11:54So this is the third time you've mentioned it to me, this man with grey hair and a dog.
11:58Exactly.
11:58So it's now starting to build up that Eric Johnson is someone you need to speak to.
12:02How close are you getting to identifying him at this point?
12:05We're not getting any closer to identifying Eric Johnson.
12:08The intelligence unit are not able to give us any information that realistically identifies an individual by that name.
12:16When we spoke to the wife, she told us that there was a voicemail message left on the landline, which
12:22we had access to.
12:23And this was somebody calling John Hay, leaving a message that it was Eric Johnson and asking for him to
12:28ring him back.
12:29There is a second call coming into the home address.
12:32And the wife tells us that actually there is a second recording of a message that's been left.
12:40And when we listen to this, it's a different voice.
12:42This is a different person ringing the house.
12:44With the same message, can John Hay please ring me back?
12:48This is Eric Johnson.
12:50Different voice?
12:51Yes, this is a different voice.
12:54What you're describing to me is quite bizarre.
12:56So the same message from the same phone, but with a different voice.
13:01What do you think is going on there?
13:03Well, this is a question that was posed to the wife of John Hay.
13:06And she was asked if she recognised either of the voices.
13:09And she said that yes, she had a suspicion that one of them, the older sounding voice, was a man
13:15that she knew to be Kenneth Bill.
13:18Kenneth Bill? Who's Kenneth Bill?
13:19She explained that Kenneth Bill was somebody she had had a relationship with in the 1970s.
13:26He'd been her boyfriend for four years and that she'd seen him in an article in the local newspaper.
13:33She met him for a coffee and they renewed their friendship.
13:37But he's now ringing the landline to speak to her husband under a false name and two different voices.
13:43When this is now screaming, there's something not quite right here.
13:48So we need to trace Kenneth Bill at the earliest opportunity.
13:55He has clearly rung the house, giving a false name to get John Hay to meet him, which in itself
14:01is sinister.
14:03Just as I'm sitting here thinking about this and I'm thinking about what you know.
14:07This Kenneth Bill, is he a tall or a short man?
14:09Kenneth Bill is considerably shorter than John Hay.
14:13So the sort of person that would have to move John's seat forward from someone who's driving who's six foot
14:18four?
14:18He would need to move the seat forward. Yes, he would.
14:22So you make a decision. You make a decision that this is no longer a high risk missing person case.
14:27We're going to treat this now as a murder inquiry.
14:30What were the pieces of information that you saw were important to that decision?
14:34He's been missing for four days. And this is so out of character for John.
14:40There is no good reason why he wouldn't return calls to his family and his friends.
14:45Also, his van has gone to Humberside. He has no connections with Humberside.
14:51It appears that someone shorter than John was driving that van.
14:55Add to that the fact that someone's been into a phone shop to purchase a SIM card specifically to ring
15:01John Hay.
15:01And the wife is telling us that this person is potentially Kenneth Bill, a man that she has a relationship
15:11with.
15:14Kenneth Bill's now a suspect in your murder.
15:17And if any suspect comes into an inquiry, it's important you build a profile of them.
15:21So that would be getting as much information as you can assist your inquiry.
15:26What sort of picture were you building up of Kenneth Bill?
15:29I knew from inquiries through the intelligence cell that he had no police record.
15:33He wasn't known to the police. He was a successful businessman.
15:36He had more than one business that he operated out of Huddersfield.
15:40And he was quite successful in that.
15:42He had a number of business premises too.
15:44He had an office that was associated with a quarry.
15:48And he also had an industrial unit that we knew that he had acquired for a new business that he
15:55was about to launch.
15:57He was a divorced man and he lived on his own.
15:59He lived in a property in Huddersfield.
16:02The property has land attached to it.
16:06It's probably best described as a small holding.
16:09There was a horse there.
16:11There were goats. There were cats.
16:14There was quite a lot of wildlife.
16:15I think there might have even been chickens there.
16:17Did he have a dog?
16:18He did.
16:19He had a white dog, a Westing.
16:21And that was the dog that I saw on the footage from the helicopter and also the CCTV from the
16:27phone shop.
16:30So if we look at the relationship between Bill and John's wife, she had indicated that it was a platonic
16:39relationship.
16:41Was that the truth?
16:42No, unfortunately it wasn't the truth.
16:45As the investigation progresses, we look at the wife's telephone and there are a number of messages on her telephone
16:54that suggest that she is actually in a relationship with Kenneth Bill.
16:59Well, they had had an affair.
17:01The affair began in October of 2011 and it ran for approximately four months.
17:08At that time, the wife of John Hay decided that she didn't want the relationship to continue and she brought
17:15it to an end.
17:16But Kenneth Bill, by this point, was really quite obsessed with her and he did not want the relationship to
17:23end.
17:23And he made repeated attempts to contact her, pleading with her to get back together, to renew the relationship.
17:31But she wanted none of it.
17:33So he is of particular importance to us and there is a potential motive for a murder.
17:44So you make the decision that Bill is going to be arrested.
17:47How did that go?
17:48So officers were asked to go to his home address to arrest him.
17:53He was informed that he was being arrested for the murder of John Hay.
17:58To which he made a very surprising response given the gravity of the allegation.
18:05He didn't challenge it in any way.
18:07He made a comment along the lines of, can I feed my animals first?
18:11Which given, as I say, the gravity of the allegation is really quite surprising.
18:17I always like to think of it as how would I react or anybody I know react if they were
18:22given those words of being arrested for murder.
18:24I don't think I'd react like that.
18:26No.
18:28Anyone would be shocked to be told they were being arrested for murder and would want to know what the
18:36allegation was.
18:37But there were no such questions from Kenneth Bill.
18:39He was as cool as you like.
18:47So having been arrested, now some searches need to take place of those premises that Bill has some type of
18:56control over.
18:57And there are three.
18:58His home address, the industrial premises and the quarry.
19:02So tell me how those searches went.
19:04I nominated a forensic crime manager to coordinate the search of all three properties.
19:13I'm Frances Senior and in 2012 I was an area forensic manager for West Yorkshire Police.
19:19We needed to search the home address of Kenneth Bill, both the premises and the land.
19:25Concerns really had escalated to the point of thinking we're no longer looking for a missing person, we're looking for
19:30a body.
19:31The decision was made to deploy cadaver dogs.
19:36Cadaver dog is trained to find human bodies.
19:40The cadaver dogs made multiple indications at the same sort of area, indicating that something was particularly of interest in
19:47that area.
19:48The crime scene manager reported back that there was a strong smell of a fire having been there.
19:54It appeared that there had been a fire and then the ground had been dug over.
19:58This area needs to be thoroughly examined and probably is going to need excavation to see if there are human
20:04remains there.
20:08It's a really long and laborious meticulous process and during that process they recovered a number of bones.
20:15Now, we often find bones in the CSI world and predominantly they're animal bones.
20:20On site they won't make a positive identification.
20:23Bones get taken off to the laboratory, in this case in the university,
20:28and they are looked at in much more detail with better lighting, microscopy, etc, etc.
20:33What that resulted in was the discovery of a human toe bone.
20:38And when we did DNA analysis we could establish that that was belonging to John Hay.
20:49But there was no more human remains at this burn site.
20:54So the discovery of a burnt toe bone is not indication in itself of a homicide.
21:01Obviously our suspicions were raised but it wouldn't be enough on its own without lots of other evidence to really
21:07conclude foul play had happened.
21:09The person can of course survive an injury that results in the loss of a toe bone.
21:15So it still doesn't give me a cause of death.
21:18And it doesn't prove actually that John Hay is in fact dead.
21:21The challenge that I face is that I do have somebody in custody and in respect of suspicion for murder.
21:30I cannot charge him with an offensive murder unless I have a body or I have a cause of death.
21:37And at that moment in time I have neither.
21:46I think undoubtedly from talking to Lisa I could tell that the biggest frustration was the fact that they had
21:53no body.
21:53They didn't find John.
21:55Now it's not impossible to charge someone with murder if no body is found.
21:59But it definitely makes it harder.
22:00They have to prove firstly that the person has died.
22:04And they'll also have to see some kind of sign of trauma.
22:08To be able to clearly demonstrate that it wasn't an accident or some other reason that the person died.
22:19I asked detectives to attend the industrial unit and the office premises of the quarry to establish whether John Hay
22:26was present.
22:27They reported back that John Hay was not present and in their belief there had not been any disturbance at
22:34the two sides.
22:35But I wasn't satisfied with that and I wanted it to be forensically examined.
22:39And actually those officers were wrong because there were deposits of blood in four separate areas within the industrial unit.
22:47If you'd accepted the word of those officers you would have missed an attack site.
22:54That decision you made was absolutely vital in identifying that crime scene.
23:02Bill's in custody, haven't been arrested for murder.
23:04Anybody in that situation gets interviewed and it's their chance to put their side of the story.
23:10What did he say to you in that interview?
23:14In the initial interview he gave no account of his actions in relation to John Hay and was very unhelpful.
23:23When police interview murders in the UK we use what's known as staged disclosure.
23:27Yeah.
23:28Bit by bit they give him more evidence.
23:30Yes.
23:32As the evidence was put before him little by little he changed his account and what he told officers was
23:41that he had been in a relationship with John Hay's wife.
23:45And that he had had indeed obtained the SIM card from the shop in Huddersfield.
23:53And that to make contact with John Hay he had asked an employee to ring on his behalf.
24:00Kenneth Bill rang a second time and he did it himself.
24:05On the second occasion he tried to disguise his voice and he said in the interview that to do this
24:10he removed his dentures and put a marble in his mouth.
24:14No one answered the phone and he left a message again saying this is Eric Johnson please return my call.
24:21With the marble in his mouth?
24:22With the marble in his mouth.
24:24Bizarre.
24:25Yes.
24:26We formulated a forensic strategy for the industrial unit that will give us the best chance of telling the story
24:35of what's happened within the unit.
24:37Has John Hay been physically present in that unit?
24:40So I sent the crime scene manager and CSI to the industrial unit.
24:45Due to the size of the unit it presents a particular challenge for forensic examiners.
24:50There was an area of blood quite visible on the wall and it was more visible because it looked to
24:56have been recently painted over.
24:58So we deployed what's called Quasar Lighting and different light techniques using different frequencies of lighting to look at the
25:07paint and to identify using crime lights if there's anything visible underneath it.
25:13They found blood spatter so there was visible blood spatter in a number of places and the main find of
25:21interest there was finding a human tooth at the bottom of the stairs.
25:27As well as the areas of blood spatter there was indications of scalp and hair so I got a very
25:35excited call from the crime scene manager there notifying me of these key finds that really were a pivotal point
25:42in the investigation.
25:43What we found inside the unit was obvious signs of a cleanup. The floor had been cleaned but there was
25:53a ring of congealed blood which gave us an idea of the volume that had been on the floor prior
26:00to the cleanup.
26:00Until that blood was identified as belonging to John you do worry that something else has happened there and it's
26:09not actually going to be John.
26:11So in that instance I authorized and opened up the out of hours lab so called in scientists to work
26:17out of hours and to do what's called a quick turnaround DNA analysis.
26:21So that is when they use ultra first techniques so that will have been done overnight and I remember getting
26:27that information that we'd have got a conclusive match that it was John.
26:36You knew now that John was dead you always have at the back of your mind that there's that potential
26:43that is alive somewhere.
26:47But the moment you discover this attack site and the blood and the distribution and the story that tells, that
26:58hope, no matter how small it is, is gone.
27:05He was a colleague of yours from West Yorkshire.
27:08How did you feel at that point?
27:09He probably felt more motivated to get to the truth and establish exactly what had happened.
27:17Kenneth Bill had an account for John Hay coming to his unit and what his account was that he wanted
27:25to tell John Hay that he was in a relationship with the wife and that in fact they should share
27:30her.
27:31Share her?
27:32Yes, this is what he said.
27:34Yes, this is what he said he wanted to tell John Hay.
27:36And he said that John Hay was angry at this and an outburst, an angry outburst took place and that
27:45he had accidentally fallen down the steps, which were very steep.
27:49And in the process of doing that, he'd bumped his head and fallen unconscious.
27:54The interviewing officers asked him why he hadn't called an ambulance and Kenneth Bill said he had a phobia of
28:02ambulances and he didn't want to call an ambulance.
28:05So he did nothing and John Hay died before his eyes.
28:10So as bizarre as that sounds, and it doesn't sound credible in the slightest, that is presenting a problem for
28:20you now, because on the face of it, if he was telling the truth, that's not murder.
28:27No.
28:28So you need to disprove what he's saying, no matter how bizarre it sounds.
28:32Yes, because he would have us believe that this was an accidental death.
28:36How did you go about that?
28:38So there are a number of experts that are available to me, one of which is a forensic biologist who
28:45was able to tell me about the blood distribution and was able to describe the manner of the attacks that
28:51had taken place.
28:53I was in Leeds Crown Court on another murder case when the DCI, the Detective Chief Inspector Lisa Griffin, for
29:04want of a better word, collared me.
29:05My name is Dr. Brian Rogers. I'm a consultant forensic home office pathologist, have been now for some 25 years.
29:16Generally speaking, a forensic pathologist will undertake a post-mortem examination of a body and establish the unlawful killing, but
29:25I didn't have a body.
29:26All I had was the scene of the attack and the blood pattern analysis that he could look at.
29:34Trying to think back through my career, I don't think I've ever been involved in a case where there was
29:41nobody.
29:42So it's quite an unusual case.
29:47The story that Kenneth Bill gave the police was that John Hay had fallen down the stairs.
29:58Because of the multiplicity of areas of blood spatter, this is highly unlikely to be just due to John Hay
30:08suffering a fall down the stairs.
30:10All that blood and all the blood contamination and tissue found at the scene was confirmed to be a perfect
30:20DNA match with that of John Hay.
30:22There were also found, in various areas going up the stairs, small clumps of about 20 to 30 hairs stuck
30:32in blood.
30:33And the interpretation of the forensic scientists was that those hair clumps had been forcibly pulled out from someone's head.
30:42So it all pointed to some form of struggle.
30:48The other interesting finding there was a further clump of hair embedded in a small piece of scalp tissue.
30:59And that was actually found towards the top of the stairs, quite high up on the wall.
31:06So how on earth has that piece of human tissue ended up there if this was just a simple fall
31:15downstairs?
31:15There's no way.
31:17So taking all the evidence into account and looking at everything, I was of the view that John Hay had
31:25been assaulted forcibly with a weapon to the head,
31:29sustained significant blunt trauma head injuries and probably then fell down the stairs.
31:36But he has been assaulted and the assault probably continued all over the unit from the distribution of blood in
31:44various areas.
31:45The evidence that I saw was, I felt pretty conclusive.
31:54Taking everything into account, I was pretty convinced that John Hay had been murdered.
32:06Whilst he can survive without toe bones, he most certainly can't survive without his skull.
32:13What we have here is a reconstruction of the crime scene.
32:17The victim, John Hay, has been led up these stairs, a very steep metal staircase, to this office at the
32:25top.
32:26We believe that the suspect had secreted a weapon at the top of those stairs.
32:31He was struck very strongly about the head with such force that it removed part of his scalp,
32:38which has caused him to fall down the stairs.
32:40They were able to identify blood spatter down the staircase, showing that he was bleeding as he was going down
32:46the staircase.
32:47There were other areas within here where John Hay had been attacked, namely the fire exit.
32:53He'd been struck about the head, we believe, because there was blood on the wall at a height of six
33:02foot four.
33:02We believe he'd also been attacked as he tried to escape through the point where he'd entered.
33:08A human tooth belonging to John Hay was found at that point.
33:12It was obvious that the victim, John Hay, was trying desperately to escape from the industrial unit.
33:19There were clear signs of impact spatter, so blood that is distributed from something hitting, something that is bleeding.
33:27He had run or had certainly gone to the fire escape, which he couldn't exit because it had been welded
33:36shut.
33:37He couldn't exit from the door because it had been locked.
33:40And there was no other means of escaping from the industrial unit.
33:45John Hay was effectively trapped within that unit.
33:48The final attack point that I suggest is the area in the centre of the industrial unit where we found
33:56the remnants of blood in the pool in the centre of that area there.
34:03So there was essentially four attack sites.
34:15Without a doubt, the forensic pathologist in this case was absolutely vital.
34:22His evidence was needed to prove that John's death was unlawful.
34:31John Hay must have been terrified and bewildered by the reason for the attack upon him.
34:37And he did his best to escape but wasn't able to do so because every effort had been made to
34:43make that unit secure so that he could not escape.
34:45Also present in the industrial unit was a horse box and the horse box did in fact contain traces of
34:52blood in it.
34:53At the actual home address of Kennethbill near the burn deposition site, there were tyre marks that looked to have
34:59been made by something on an axle trailer.
35:03We cast tyre marks to link back to vehicles that may have left them to prove that the trailer had
35:09been taken to the land of Kennethbill.
35:13And the hypothesis was at that time that a body had been moved from the murder site at the industrial
35:18unit to Kennethbill's home address where the body was disposed of through the bonfire.
35:28We continued the search of Kennethbill's home address and in an office within the house they found a list of
35:38items.
35:39This is a reconstruction of the note that was found inside Kenneth's home.
35:43It lists duct tape, one ton bag, sim, baling twine, pen knife, wood and then more wood and bleach.
35:56Ticking off items such as duct tape, wood and sim cards certainly raised a few eyebrows amongst myself and my
36:04investigation team as to what he'd written this for.
36:08This alone gives me an indication that this was very much a planned murder.
36:14It was certainly an error of judgement for it not to end up on the bonfire where it so easily
36:19could have.
36:19An awful lot of planning has gone into the murder, but then he's left the note with his planning at
36:28his home.
36:29I mean, as mistakes go, that's a bit of a stupid one there, isn't it?
36:33It is a mistake, but I think we've interrupted the whole operation.
36:38I think it was still ongoing, I think he was still trying to cover his tracks
36:43and that was just a piece of evidence that he hadn't yet destroyed.
36:50Another piece of information that was important for the investigation came from a witness
36:56who approached the police cordon at Kenneth Bill's home address.
37:00This particular person was another employee of Ken Bill
37:05and he told us that he had gone to the pub with Kenneth Bill on two occasions
37:11and had had a conversation that disturbed him greatly.
37:16The first time, Kenneth Bill said to him, I need your advice, I've got a bit of a problem.
37:23I'm in a relationship with a married woman and I need to get rid of the husband.
37:30So I have a plan and the plan is this.
37:34I'm going to invite him to come to the industrial unit
37:38and once I've got him there, there is a steep set of stairs that I can ask him to follow
37:45me
37:45and I will have a weapon that I will then use against him
37:50because I will need a height advantage, this man is a lot taller than me.
37:54I'm going to attack him on the stairs and I'm going to kill him
37:59and then to dispose of his body I'm going to order one of those fertiliser containers that farmers use
38:06which I'll fill with acid to dissolve the body
38:12and I'm thinking that this will be the best way forward.
38:15What do you think?
38:17And this employee of his said,
38:21Well, I do see a problem with your plan, you've told me.
38:25So he just regarded this as a joke.
38:29He didn't think that Kenneth Bill was being serious.
38:32It was so ludicrous, it couldn't possibly be a serious proposition.
38:36And he gave it no more thought at that time.
38:39However, they went to the pub on a subsequent occasion
38:42and he said again, I've changed the plan.
38:46I'm thinking I won't use acid to dissolve the body.
38:50I think what would be a better idea would be to burn it.
38:52I could burn the body.
38:54And the employee of his again laughed it off and said,
38:59you know, surely, surely not.
39:01And thought it was a joke.
39:03He really thought it was a joke.
39:04So when he saw the police activity at Kenneth Bill's home address,
39:08he felt compelled to come and tell us.
39:11I've got to be honest, Lisa, I'm a little bit of a shock to hear that.
39:14I've never heard of anything like that.
39:16This was an employee and he's basically given him his whole plans
39:19what he's going to do, that's mad.
39:20Yeah.
39:21Kenneth Bill was so arrogant and he believed that he could carry out
39:24the perfect murder and that he could get away with it.
39:29You've now managed to get to the stage where you're about to go to trial.
39:34The trial for John's murder.
39:36In your mind, what were the key pieces of evidence that were going to achieve that?
39:43We've got the evidence from our forensic pathologist
39:46who would say that it was the attack within that unit
39:50that has led to the death of John Hay and it was not an accidental death.
39:58What happened when he appeared at the Crown Court?
40:03Kenneth Bill pleaded not guilty.
40:06That man was so arrogant and so strong-willed,
40:10he was determined to have his say in court
40:14and he felt that he had a realistic prospect of getting a not guilty verdict.
40:20When you turned up for that first day of the trial, how did you feel?
40:24I was confident that we would get a guilty verdict
40:28because I knew that the evidence was very strong,
40:32it was very compelling, but I was also worried for the family.
40:35What defence did Bill put forward?
40:39Bill proposed a defence that he had not killed John Hay,
40:45that in fact it was an accident.
40:47He wanted the court to accept the account that he had given,
40:50that they had had a heated discussion over the relationship with John Hay's wife
40:56and that John Hay had fallen down the steps
41:00and had suffered a fatal head injury.
41:05There are elements of truth woven throughout the account
41:09and clearly he did put John Hay's body in a builder's bag
41:14and he did transport it back to his home in the horse trailer
41:18and he did burn the body, he admitted that.
41:21The key element that he omitted in his account was the fact that he was responsible for killing John Hay.
41:28The way we were able to rebut that defence was by using our star witness,
41:33which was the forensic pathologist Brian Rogers.
41:36He was able to say that the account offered by Kenneth Bill was not consistent with the evidence that he
41:43examined at the scene.
41:44He was able to say that John Hay had suffered catastrophic injuries, head injuries,
41:51and he had been attacked in such a way that part of his skull had been removed within that industrial
41:58unit
41:58and he had died there and that this was no accident, that this was a malicious attack on John Hay.
42:05He was really quite obsessed with the wife of John Hay
42:09and this is what motivated him, we believe, to kill John Hay so that he could have access to her
42:16because in his mind she would not leave her husband for him,
42:20it was the husband that was the blocker to this relationship.
42:23I was satisfied that John Hay's wife had absolutely no inkling that Kenneth Bill intended to
42:30or did in fact carry out the murder of John Hay.
42:32She did not support that action, she did not want a relationship with Kenneth Bill
42:37and she could not have foreseen this outcome.
42:40She was devastated to lose her husband, she loved him greatly.
42:44As human beings, the majority of what motivates us to act is based on emotion
42:51and that's no different when it comes to murder.
42:55Now these could be emotions that push us, so for instance anger, jealousy or feelings of betrayal
43:02or emotions we seek such as power, control or sexual gratification.
43:08When we look at the circumstances of this case, I mean no doubt that emotion played a central role.
43:15So you've been through the trial over several weeks and there will come that point where the jury go out
43:21to consider their verdict.
43:23How are you feeling at this point?
43:27It's always a tense time when the jury retire to consider their verdict because nothing is ever guaranteed.
43:33The jury came back and the foreman announced that they had reached a verdict on which they were all agreed.
43:41And that verdict was one of guilty. Guilty for the murder of John Hay.
43:53The team were relieved that we got a guilty verdict and also very sad really to reflect on the manner
44:00in which John Hay had died.
44:02But satisfied that we'd done enough to get that conviction.
44:06Kenneth Bill was sentenced to life imprisonment with a minimum tariff of 22 years.
44:16Which means he's not eligible to apply for parole until he has served at least 22 years.
44:22He was 63 when he was convicted, so it's unlikely that he will ever have liberty again.
44:28John Hay was very well liked by colleagues.
44:31His funeral was very well attended by police officers and friends alike.
44:35He was very popular amongst the community in Huddersfield.
44:39He was a kind and gentle man and did not deserve the violent death that he suffered.
44:53The investigation you've described to me, Lisa, I've got to say is absolutely outstanding.
45:00It must have left the jury in no doubt that Kenneth Bill killed John.
45:07Some of the decisions you made were absolutely outstanding.
45:13You didn't just take it on face value what you were being told.
45:17You challenged it and you asked people to go back and just make sure.
45:23John isn't around to say thank you.
45:26But on his behalf, can I just say thank you to you as an absolutely outstanding, diligent, professional, senior investigating
45:35officer.
45:35The work you did was outstanding. So thank you, Lisa, for that.
45:45There are many skills that are required to be a good murder detective.
45:50And my conversation with Lisa reminded me that determination is one of those.
45:54But her refusing to accept the information that was coming back from the phone shop, the industrial unit,
46:00and what appeared to be a suicide were pivotal in solving what was always going to be a difficult case.
46:16So thank you.
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