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00:00Sauer, really happy to have you here. So he grew up in New Hampshire. He was born and raised in
00:05Keene, New Hampshire. He then left New Hampshire to go to military school. He went to VMI, to the
00:10Virginia Military Institute. He was actually valedictorian of his class at VMI. He then went
00:16on to Harvard. He was going to be an English literature major at Harvard, but he soon changed
00:23his mind. He felt a calling. He was called to the priesthood. And so he left Harvard. He enrolled
00:31in the Episcopal Theological Seminary in Cambridge, Massachusetts. And it is while he was enrolled at
00:38seminary, he was still a seminarian, that he got permission from the seminary to complete some of
00:43his classwork remotely, not in Massachusetts, but in Alabama. It was 1965, the roiling summer of
00:531965. And he went to Lowndes County, Alabama, right in the Alabama Black Belt. He went there to serve
01:01the poor. He tutored kids, tried to get people hooked up with programs that could help them financially.
01:08He helped integrate a whites-only Episcopal church in Lowndes County, Alabama. He registered people to
01:16vote there. Specifically, he registered African-Americans to vote in Lowndes County. His name
01:21was Jonathan Daniels. And in 1965, he was 26 years old, 26-year-old Episcopal seminarian.
01:30On August 14th, 1965, Jonathan Daniels, this young man, the seminarian, he put on his clerical collar
01:39and he took part in a peaceful picket of segregated whites-only businesses in a town called Fort Deposit,
01:48Alabama, in Lowndes County. They wanted those businesses to serve everyone, regardless of race.
01:53They protested for it. Local police in Lowndes County arrested every single person taking part
01:59in that picket. And they put them all in a garbage truck. And they drove them in the garbage truck
02:06to
02:06the Lowndes County Jail in Hainville, Alabama. And all of the people, about 30 people who participated
02:12in that protest, they were all held in the Lowndes County Jail in Hainville for six days.
02:18And on August 20th, at the end of those six days, in the stinking heat of that hot, hot August,
02:26the protesters were let out. And they were just dumped outside. No transportation to anywhere,
02:32no warning. They were just dumped out in the street.
02:36And then picture this, this young seminarian. Again, he's wearing his clerical collar,
02:42which he has now been wearing for six days in jail. He's 26 years old. And he's with another
02:49priest, another white priest, a Catholic priest, who's about the same age as him. He's newly ordained
02:55as a Catholic priest. He's 27. And these two priests, age 26, 27, both white men, both dressed for work
03:02as priests, both dressed in their clerical collars. They get out of jail after six days spent in there.
03:08And when they get out, well, they and their fellow protesters are trying to figure out
03:13how are they going to get a ride? How are they going to get back to where they live? How
03:16are
03:16they going to let people know that they're out? These two priests and two young women who had also
03:22taken part in the protest, who had also been locked up, they decided they would cross the street
03:26from the jail and go get a Coke, go to a local store and get something to drink.
03:31It's a really hot day in August. It's these two priests, these two young white men and two young
03:38black women, again, who had also been part of the protest. And one of the young women,
03:43her name is Joyce Bailey. She's 19 years old. The other young woman, Ruby Sales, is just 17.
03:51But the four of them, the two priests and these two teenage girls,
03:54they walk over to the store to go get a soda. And Jonathan Daniels, the Episcopal seminarian,
04:01he borrows a dime from 17-year-old Ruby Sales so he can buy a soda. And the four of
04:07them walk up to
04:08that store. And as they get up to the door of that store, a white man with a shotgun swears
04:14at them
04:14and tells them to get off this property or I'll blow your bleeping heads off.
04:19And that man standing at the door of the store, he levels the shotgun and he aims at 17-year
04:26-old
04:26Ruby Sales. And this Episcopal seminarian, Jonathan Daniels, he sees that the man is actually going to
04:35fire the shotgun. And he pushes 17-year-old Ruby Sales out of the way. He throws himself in front
04:41of the gun. And he takes the full blast from the shotgun to his chest. And he is killed.
04:49And he is laying there on his back on the ground, bleeding to death.
04:5617-year-old Ruby Sales survives. The other priest, 27-year-old Richard Morrisrow,
05:02he grabs the other young woman, this 19-year-old Joyce Bailey, and he runs with her. And the man
05:08at the
05:09store with the gun, having killed this Episcopal priest, this Episcopal seminarian, having killed
05:15Daniels, he fires again. And he shoots the Catholic priest in the back and leaves him for dead.
05:23And 19-year-old Joyce Bailey survives. And 17-year-old Ruby Sales survives. And Richard Morrisrow,
05:31the Catholic priest, 27 years old, he is shot in the back. He's shot in the spine. He is very
05:36nearly
05:36killed. He spends months in the hospital. But Jonathan Daniels dies there. He is killed there
05:44at the door of that store in Hainville, Alabama. And when they put his killer on trial in that
05:52Lowndes County courthouse, it was an all-white jury. And the man who killed that seminarian,
05:58he claimed self-defense, self-defense, an armed man claiming self-defense against these two young
06:06priests and these two teenage girls, needless to say, all of whom were unarmed. He claimed self-defense
06:13against them. And he was acquitted. It took one hour and 43 minutes of thinking about it.
06:21The following year, that killer did an interview with CBS News in which he proclaimed that he had
06:26no regrets about it. He said, quote, I would shoot them both tomorrow, by which he means both of those
06:33men in clerical collars. 17-year-old Ruby Sales went on to become a seminarian in her own right
06:42and an important civil rights activist herself. Jonathan Daniels went on to become a saint,
06:50quite literally. The Episcopal Church, decades later, named Jonathan Daniels officially a Christian
06:58martyr. His feast day in the Episcopal Church is not the day he was killed, August 20th. It's actually
07:07August 14th, the day he was arrested for peacefully protesting before they killed him.
07:16Dr. Martin Luther King Jr., who is honored today with a federal holiday in his name,
07:21when he heard about what happened that day in Hainville, Dr. King said, quote,
07:25one of the most heroic Christian deeds of which I have heard in my entire ministry
07:32was performed by Jonathan Daniels.
07:38In New Hampshire, where Jonathan Daniels is from, in Concord, New Hampshire,
07:41the Episcopal Bishop there now in 2026 said that he had Jonathan Daniels on his mind when he gave
07:50new advice to the Episcopal priests who he oversees now in New Hampshire. It was at a vigil for
07:57Renee Good, who was shot and killed in Minneapolis by an ICE officer, when Episcopal Bishop in New
08:03Hampshire, Rob Hirshfield, said that he had asked his clergy in New Hampshire to prepare, quote,
08:09for a new era of martyrdom.
08:16I have told the clergy of the Episcopal Diocese of New Hampshire
08:21that we may be entering into that same witness. And I've asked them to get their affairs in order,
08:33to make sure they have their wills written, because it may be that now is no longer the time for
08:42statements, but for us with our bodies to stand between the powers of this world and the most vulnerable.
08:56I've asked them to get their affairs in order. In an interview this weekend with NPR, Bishop Hirshfield
09:04explained what he meant by that very dramatic pronouncement. He said, quote, what I said to the
09:10clergy was, I'm just asking you to live your life without fear of death. Be prepared. I'm not asking you
09:16to go look for that bullet. I'm simply saying, be ready. Have your affairs in order. Have your soul
09:21ready in case you find yourself in trouble. The bishop said, quote, not everyone can be a Jonathan
09:27Daniels, but we're increasingly called to go into places that feel dangerous.
09:35Well, that Episcopal bishop in New Hampshire was doing that interview with NPR yesterday. At the same
09:40time, Catholic Archbishop Timothy Broglio was doing an interview with the BBC. Now, Archbishop Broglio
09:48is the archbishop who serves the U.S. armed forces for the Catholic Church. And Archbishop Broglio was
09:54asked in this BBC interview yesterday about the prospect that President Donald Trump may order the
10:01U.S. military to invade Greenland, to try to seize Greenland for the United States. Archbishop Broglio
10:08told the BBC, quote, it would be very difficult for a soldier or Marine or a sailor by himself
10:14to disobey an order such as that. But strictly speaking, he or she would be within the realm
10:21of their own conscience. It would be morally acceptable to disobey that order.
10:30So yesterday and one day, we have the Episcopal bishop in New Hampshire explaining that his clergy
10:36need to have their wills written and their affairs in order because they may be called to stand up
10:41against tyranny in the United States right now to the point of dangerousness, to the point where
10:45their lives may be at risk, to the point where he is talking about martyrdom in his church.
10:50The same day, the Catholic Archbishop for the U.S. Armed Services says it would be morally acceptable
10:55for U.S. service members to refuse orders from this president to invade a country that he is currently
11:03threatening. All in one day. Then today, the very next day, the three highest ranking Catholic clerics
11:11in the United States, cardinals who oversee Washington, D.C. and Chicago and Newark, all released a joint
11:18statement lambasting the foreign policy adventurism of the U.S. government right now, saying it calls
11:24into question the, quote, moral role of our country. And, you know, that's a lot all at once. I mean,
11:35whether whether or not you're a religious person, even if you are a religious person, whether or not
11:39these developments are from your faith tradition, I think it's safe to say there's something going on
11:46when big, mainline, mainstream religious leaders of very, very large, very influential religious
11:54denominations in the United States start talking in terms this stark. Start literally talking about
12:01martyrdom. Start trying to bring their moral force to bear against the behavior and actions of a U.S.
12:12president and the U.S. government that he commands. Tonight here on the show, we're going to speak
12:18live with Cardinal Blaise Cupich of Chicago. He is going to be here live in just a minute. Look busy.
12:27Tomorrow marks one year since Donald Trump has been back in office for his second term as president.
12:34And as we speak tonight, on the eve of that one year anniversary, our allies in Denmark and France
12:42and the U.K. and Germany and Norway and Sweden and the Netherlands and Finland, all of those countries,
12:49all our allies have all sent troops to Greenland to try to protect that island from us.
12:57Canada says they may send troops as well because all of NATO is still standing by each other,
13:04even if we now appear to have left and crossed over to the other side,
13:09potentially threatening war now against NATO.
13:15President Trump's bizarre letter to the government of Norway this weekend,
13:19complaining that him not being awarded the Nobel Peace Prize is reason enough for him to now
13:25righteously consider invading Greenland and seizing it for himself.
13:30I mean, that was one of the single strangest moments in the history of the American presidency.
13:36And it means that America truly, maybe more so than at any other time in the history of our nation,
13:44it means that America truly stands alone in the world and for good reason.
13:51I mean, who are who are our real allies now?
13:55Like Russia, maybe North Korea.
13:58I mean, I guess El Salvador, since we might want to use their torture prisons there again.
14:04I don't know.
14:05Who do we stand with now?
14:07Who would stand with us?
14:10These were protests this weekend in Denmark and Copenhagen.
14:14Huge protests in Copenhagen.
14:17This was one of the largest ever protests in Greenland as well.
14:22People there were wearing red hats that said MAGA, M-A-G-A, make America go away.
14:28People in Greenland are now making contingency plans in case of a U.S. invasion.
14:34People in Greenland now looking out at ships and fighter jets from our ostensible NATO allies
14:41posted up there in defense against the United States, which is threatening to invade and seize that nation.
14:51While threatening Greenland and NATO, this same president simultaneously is threatening to use the U.S. military,
14:57to use active duty U.S. troops against the American people in Minnesota,
15:02as his ragtag paramilitary federal agents continue to run wild in the city of Minneapolis.
15:11Reaction against that all around the country continues.
15:14There are big protests today on the Martin Luther King holiday in Philadelphia.
15:18People marched today in Philly.
15:20Also, big crowds today marched in Austin, Texas, at the Texas state capitol.
15:25There were protests this weekend against Trump and against ICE in Denver, Colorado, at the state capitol, Colorado.
15:31There were protests against ICE and against Trump in Albuquerque, New Mexico, and in Akron, Ohio,
15:36and in Boston, Massachusetts, and out in the cold and the snow in Morristown, New Jersey.
15:41In Fargo, North Dakota, people turned out this weekend to protest against Trump and ICE
15:45when it was minus six degrees outside.
15:50Minus six in Fargo for these protests.
15:54Protests this weekend against Trump and ICE in Alameda, California, along miles of beach in Alameda.
16:01Protests in Portland, Maine this weekend, because it is widely expected that Trump's federal agents
16:06will mount their next attack in Maine, in Portland, and potentially in Lewiston, Maine,
16:11and people of Maine are getting ready.
16:14This was Minneapolis this weekend, where ongoing protests and community response
16:19to the thousands of federal agents overrunning that city
16:22included one big protest by Minnesota postal workers.
16:27ICE out of Minnesota.
16:28They're postal workers, and so they are very clever.
16:30Included this sign in the shape of an envelope.
16:34From ICE to Minneapolis.
16:35Return to sender.
16:37ICE out forever.
16:38This is the stamp.
16:40From ICE, care of U.S. government, to Minneapolis.
16:43Return to sender.
16:47Minnesota protests this weekend also included the annual Powderhorn Sled Races,
16:53which, look, this is a sled,
16:54which included this big bottle of de-icer,
16:57like windshield de-icer for your car.
16:59Also, a big container of horchata.
17:01I'll take my horchata warm because F ice.
17:05And then when the horchata sled went down the hill,
17:10it threw the ice cubes out the top.
17:11Get it?
17:12Also, a bowling ball knocking down a bunch of dictator bowling pins.
17:17Trump was right up front as the first dictator bowling pin.
17:20Ah!
17:21They all fell down.
17:22Also, a flying chicken sled,
17:26with the chicken having a big whistle to blow
17:28to let people know if ICE is present.
17:31That's a good one.
17:34Protests continuing day and night in Minnesota
17:37at the ICE facility in Minneapolis,
17:41that federal building there.
17:42Literally, day and night protests continuing there.
17:44We're also seeing continued anti-ICE protests
17:46at the ICE facility just outside Chicago
17:49in Broadview, Illinois.
17:51Thinking about these ICE facilities,
17:53ICE processing facilities,
17:54ICE holding facilities,
17:55here's a little bit of a heads up,
17:56something to watch out for.
17:58You've all seen, right,
17:59ongoing protests,
18:01and occasionally very intense protests
18:02at these ICE facilities
18:03in places like Broadview, Illinois,
18:06and in Minneapolis at the ICE facility there.
18:08We've seen flashpoint protests
18:10at the ICE facility in Newark, New Jersey,
18:13and the one in Tacoma, Washington.
18:14You've seen all that
18:15over the course of the past year, right?
18:16Well, here's something that we are now noticing.
18:19We're now noticing protests
18:21in sort of communities in uproar,
18:25really big local responses
18:27in far-flung, out-of-the-way towns
18:29all over the country
18:30as ICE now starts to try to use
18:34some of the billions of dollars
18:35Trump and the Republicans just gave them
18:37as they've used that money
18:38to try to build new facilities
18:40and prisons and prison camps
18:42all over the country.
18:43They have now cited
18:44where they want those places to go.
18:47They're trying to, like,
18:48repurpose vacant warehouses
18:49into prison camps.
18:51Everywhere they are trying to do that,
18:53they are being pushed back.
18:54And oftentimes it doesn't make
18:55more than local news,
18:56but when you start looking for it,
18:57you see it everywhere.
18:58Here, for example,
18:59is local news coverage
19:00from Durant, Oklahoma.
19:02Locals there packed a town meeting,
19:04and the local government,
19:06in response,
19:06rushed to pass a brand-new ordinance
19:08that gives the city of Durant, Oklahoma,
19:11the power for the first time
19:12to say no to a jail
19:14or detention facility
19:15being put up in their town.
19:17They've got a 1.2 million square foot
19:19warehouse space
19:20that ICE wants to use
19:21to build a prison camp,
19:22but in Red State, Oklahoma,
19:25this local community,
19:26Durant, Oklahoma,
19:27and the Choctaw Nation,
19:28which is headquartered quite nearby,
19:30they are both very firmly saying,
19:33no, they will not stand for it.
19:35Red State, Oklahoma.
19:37Also, look, Roxbury, New Jersey.
19:39Now, New Jersey is a blue state,
19:41but Roxbury is pretty much a red town.
19:43Roxbury has an all-Republican local government.
19:45But after locals in Roxbury, New Jersey,
19:47got word that ICE wanted to use
19:48a half-million-square-foot warehouse
19:50in their town
19:51to put up an ICE prison camp there,
19:54locals started protesting like mad,
19:55and now the all-Republican town council
19:57in Roxbury has passed a resolution
19:59saying, no, you are not going to be allowed
20:01to build that here.
20:04Hutchins, Texas.
20:05In Hutchins, Texas,
20:06ICE is trying to build
20:07an immigrant prison camp there, too.
20:08They've got a million-square-foot
20:10vacant warehouse in Hutchins, Texas.
20:12Locals have been protesting,
20:13and now the mayor is coming out
20:14firmly and publicly
20:16and saying they are not going to allow ICE
20:18to put in a prison camp
20:19in Hutchins, Texas, either.
20:21It is something we do not need in our city
20:23and something we do not want.
20:26Orange County, New York.
20:27Again, New York, a blue state,
20:28but Orange County has generally leaned red.
20:32Residents of Orange County
20:33packing town halls
20:34and local public meetings,
20:35at least one of which had to be moved
20:37to a larger meeting site
20:38to accommodate the size of the crowd
20:39clamoring to get in.
20:41The village board and the mayor
20:43and the local Democratic congressman,
20:44Pat Ryan,
20:45the Republican County executive
20:46in Orange County,
20:47all now saying,
20:49no, ICE will not be allowed
20:50to build a new ICE facility.
20:52They will not be allowed
20:53to build an ICE prison camp
20:54in Orange County, New York.
20:56It would be catastrophic
20:57for the local community.
20:59In Missouri, Kansas City, Missouri,
21:01ICE said it wanted to build
21:02a prison camp there,
21:03a huge one,
21:04to hold 7,500 people.
21:07Kansas City, Missouri City Council
21:09responded by passing a ban,
21:11a five-year ban.
21:13Any non-municipal detention facility
21:16cannot be opened in that city
21:18for the next five years.
21:20That's a resolution introduced
21:22by the mayor.
21:23The ordinance was passed
21:24by the Kansas City, Missouri City Council.
21:27No ICE, you cannot come in here
21:28and put a prison camp in here.
21:29Down to North Mississippi,
21:32Bahalia, Mississippi,
21:33locals there this past week
21:35protesting at the site
21:37where ICE wants to build
21:38a prison camp
21:39at a vacant warehouse
21:40in their town as well.
21:41Northern Mississippi saying no to that.
21:45In Social Circle, Georgia,
21:47which is 45 miles east of Atlanta,
21:50you see the headline there,
21:51Georgia town of 5,000
21:52vows to fight ICE plan
21:54to warehouse 9,000.
21:56Even local Republican officials,
21:58even local Trump supporters
22:00saying they will not let ICE
22:02turn a vacant warehouse
22:03in Social City,
22:04Social Center, Georgia,
22:06excuse me,
22:06Social Circle, Georgia
22:08into a huge immigrant prison camp.
22:11People protesting there against it.
22:13Get ICE out of Social Circle.
22:15Hagerstown, Maryland,
22:17they're going to have a big protest
22:18tomorrow in Hagerstown.
22:19It'll include, among other people,
22:21their U.S. Senator,
22:22Chris Van Hollen,
22:23their Congresswoman,
22:24April McClain, Delaney,
22:26protesting tomorrow
22:27against ICE's plans
22:29to try to build a prison camp
22:31in Hagerstown, Maryland as well.
22:32Salt Lake City, Utah,
22:34people went out
22:34in deep, dense, cold fog
22:37on Friday morning,
22:38visibility just a few feet.
22:40They convened at a local site
22:42where they'd heard
22:43that ICE or federal officials
22:44might be coming to inspect
22:46a local facility
22:47in Salt Lake City
22:47to see if it was a place
22:48they could put
22:49a new ICE prison camp.
22:51Salt Lake Tribune says
22:52like 50 people showed up
22:53in this incredibly dense fog
22:55to try to be there,
22:57to try to show
22:57any federal officials
22:58who turned up
22:59that they were going to face
23:00local resistance
23:01if they wanted to put in
23:02an ICE prison camp
23:03in Salt Lake City.
23:05The feds didn't brave it.
23:06They never showed up
23:07Friday morning.
23:08But then people in Salt Lake City
23:09came out Sunday morning
23:11and protested against it anyway,
23:12essentially saying,
23:13don't you dare try it here.
23:15We're not going to stand for it here.
23:17No ICE detention camp here.
23:20Tonight, we're going to talk
23:21to an organizer
23:22from the successful campaign
23:24to get Avello Airlines
23:26to stop flying deportation
23:28flights for ICE.
23:29You'll remember,
23:30we've been covering protests
23:31against Avello Airlines
23:32for months.
23:33Avello is a commercial air carrier
23:35that wants to fly people
23:37like, you know,
23:37on vacation
23:38or on business trips
23:39while they were simultaneously
23:41also chaining up people
23:43in shackles and handcuffs
23:45and flying them
23:45on their planes
23:46on deportation flights
23:48for ICE.
23:48People protested
23:49all over the country
23:50against Avello for that.
23:52At every airport
23:53they had operations,
23:54peaceful,
23:55relentless protests
23:56for months
23:57to pressure Avello
23:59into stopping
24:00taking money from ICE,
24:02stopping helping ICE
24:03with their deportations.
24:04And you know what?
24:05That Avello campaign
24:07succeeded.
24:08Avello Airlines
24:09has now announced
24:10that they have ended
24:11their contract with ICE.
24:13They are no longer
24:14flying their deportation flights.
24:16We're going to talk
24:17with one of the people
24:17involved in that
24:18successful protest campaign
24:20against Avello Airlines
24:21to ask how they did it.
24:24I mean,
24:25the Tesla takedown
24:25protests worked
24:27to get Elon Musk
24:28out of the U.S. government
24:29and ultimately
24:30to end his Doge thing.
24:31The Avello Airlines
24:32protests worked
24:33to get them
24:34out of deportation
24:35flights for ICE.
24:37And now we are
24:38seeing protests
24:38all over the country,
24:40anywhere they want
24:40to try to put
24:41an ICE prison camp,
24:42in any town,
24:43of any size,
24:44in any state,
24:45no matter how liberal
24:46or how conservative.
24:49We're also seeing
24:50corporations like Target
24:52being pressured
24:53to tell ICE
24:54to get out of the state
24:55where they are
24:56headquartered in Minnesota,
24:57to tell ICE
24:58that they cannot stage
24:59in Target parking lots
25:00or enter Target stores
25:02for their operations
25:03without a warrant.
25:05We're seeing
25:06Home Depots
25:07continue to be protested,
25:08like this one
25:08in Phoenix
25:09this weekend.
25:10Home Depot
25:10continuing to face pressure
25:12to tell ICE
25:14to not use
25:16their parking lots,
25:17to not use their stores
25:18for their operations.
25:21We're also seeing
25:22protests now
25:23in the seat of power
25:24in Washington,
25:25like this really big one
25:27a few days ago
25:28at the headquarters
25:29of Customs and Border Patrol
25:31in Washington, D.C.
25:34Tomorrow,
25:35on January 20th,
25:36we are expecting people
25:37all over the country
25:38to stage walkouts
25:40from their jobs
25:41and their schools
25:43as a fitting way
25:44to mark one year
25:45exactly since Trump
25:46has been back in power
25:48and this disastrous year since.
25:52On this MLK Day,
25:54we are seeing Americans
25:55bring moral force
25:57of every imaginable kind.
26:00Moral force,
26:01bringing it to bear
26:02against the attempted
26:03overthrow of our system
26:04of government
26:05and the violence
26:06that's being used
26:07to try to achieve that.
26:08Moral force,
26:09non-violent moral force
26:10and faith.
26:11The most powerful things
26:12in the world.
26:14We've got a big show tonight.
26:15Cardinal Blaise Cupich
26:16of Chicago
26:17is here with us next,
26:19live.
26:20Stay with us.
26:24Exactly one year ago today,
26:26it was the eve
26:27of Donald Trump's inauguration
26:29for a second term
26:29as president.
26:30And the Catholic Archbishop
26:32of Chicago,
26:33one year ago today,
26:35delivered this message
26:36to the country.
26:38Well, I wish the new administration
26:41success in promoting
26:43the common good.
26:44The reports being circulated
26:46of planned mass deportations
26:48targeting the Chicago area
26:51are not only profoundly disturbing,
26:53but also wound us deeply.
26:56For members of faith communities,
26:58the threatened mass deportation
27:00also leaves us
27:02with the searing question.
27:04What is God telling us
27:06in this moment?
27:08People of faith
27:09are called to speak
27:10for the rights of others
27:12and to remind society
27:14of its obligation
27:15to care for those in need.
27:16If the indiscriminate
27:18mass deportation
27:19being reported
27:20were to be carried out,
27:22this would be an affront
27:23to the dignity
27:24of all people
27:25and communities
27:25and deny the legacy
27:27of what it means
27:29to be an American.
27:33If the indiscriminate
27:35mass deportations
27:36being reported
27:36were to be carried out,
27:38this would be an affront
27:38to the dignity
27:39of all people.
27:42Said one year ago tonight,
27:44Cardinal Supich,
27:45Cardinal Blaise Supich,
27:46Archbishop of Chicago.
27:48Eight months later,
27:49Donald Trump launched
27:50Operation Midway Blitz
27:52in Chicago,
27:53sending massive numbers
27:55of federal agents
27:56effectively
27:57to terrorize that city
27:58and hunt immigrants
28:01in the streets,
28:02hunt immigrants
28:03and ultimately
28:04hunt their defenders.
28:06Cardinal Supich
28:07responded by saying this.
28:10Families are being
28:12torn apart.
28:13Children are left in fear.
28:16and communities
28:17are shaken
28:18by immigration raids
28:20and detentions.
28:21These actions
28:23wound the soul
28:24of our city.
28:25Let me be clear.
28:27The church
28:28stands with migrants.
28:32weeks later,
28:33the U.S.
28:33Conference of Catholic
28:34Bishops
28:34made headlines
28:35when they issued
28:36a statement
28:36on behalf of
28:37the 200-plus
28:38bishops in the U.S.
28:40condemning
28:41the administration's
28:41policy of
28:42indiscriminate
28:43mass deportation.
28:45Cardinal Supich
28:45was a key voice
28:46in drafting
28:47that statement.
28:48He has been
28:50outspoken
28:51about the
28:52moral imperatives
28:54of this moment.
28:56That was true
28:57again today.
28:57Today,
28:58he and two
28:58other U.S.
28:59cardinals,
29:01the Archbishops
29:01of Washington,
29:03D.C.
29:03and Newark,
29:05released a statement
29:06about our country's
29:07quote,
29:08moral role
29:09in confronting
29:10evil around
29:11the world.
29:11Quote,
29:11the events
29:12in Venezuela,
29:13Ukraine,
29:13and Greenland
29:14have raised
29:14basic questions
29:15about the use
29:16of military force
29:16and the meaning
29:17of peace.
29:18The sovereign
29:18rights of nations
29:19to self-determination
29:21appear all too
29:22fragile in a world
29:23of ever greater
29:23conflagrations.
29:24We renounce war
29:26as an instrument
29:26for narrow
29:27national interests
29:28and proclaim
29:29that military action
29:30must be seen
29:31only as a last resort
29:33in extreme situations,
29:34not a normal instrument
29:36of national policy.
29:38Joining us now
29:39is Cardinal Blaise Supich.
29:41He is the Archbishop
29:41of Chicago.
29:42Cardinal Supich,
29:43it's a real honor
29:43to have you with us tonight.
29:44Thank you for making
29:45the time to be here.
29:47Thank you, Rachel.
29:48Good to be with you.
29:50Let me ask you
29:51about this statement
29:52you and two of your
29:53fellow cardinals
29:54made today
29:54about U.S. foreign policy.
29:57Why did you feel
29:59compelled to make
29:59this statement?
30:01Well, we were
30:02at the consistory
30:03with all the other
30:05cardinals of the world
30:06and we heard voices
30:08of great alarm
30:09about what was happening
30:10in the United States,
30:12particularly
30:14the breakdown
30:15of the consensus
30:15that we've had
30:16in the world
30:18since World War II
30:20about the way
30:21that we handle
30:21conflicts,
30:22the easy turn
30:24to war
30:25and violence
30:26and military action,
30:27the sovereignty
30:28of nations,
30:29and the dialogue
30:31that must go on
30:32with allies
30:33in order to solve
30:34difficulties.
30:35We saw
30:36that alarm
30:38in the voices
30:39and in the expressions
30:41of the cardinals
30:42from around the world.
30:43And then subsequently,
30:45right as we were
30:46leaving Rome,
30:47the Holy Father
30:48gave his talk
30:49to the diplomats
30:50of the world
30:51who are in the Vatican.
30:53And he gave us
30:55a language
30:56to speak to the issues
30:58that we believe
30:59need to be addressed
31:01following what we heard
31:02from the cardinals
31:03around the world.
31:06Obviously,
31:07the church
31:07is a nonpartisan
31:08institution
31:09and we have
31:10a secular government
31:11and we have
31:11the separation
31:12of church and state
31:12in our country,
31:13but the church
31:13obviously also
31:15speaks with
31:16moral force
31:17and speaks
31:19in some ways
31:20on behalf
31:20of the millions
31:21of Catholics
31:22of all different
31:23backgrounds
31:24in the United States.
31:26I wonder
31:27if it takes
31:28some bravery
31:30on your part
31:31and the part
31:31of your fellow cardinals
31:32to speak the way
31:34that you are
31:35and the way
31:35that you have
31:37against a secular
31:39administration
31:39and government
31:40leadership
31:42that has had
31:43no qualms
31:44whatsoever
31:44about not only
31:45denouncing
31:46but taking
31:46as many actions
31:47as they can
31:47to harm
31:48those who
31:49criticize them.
31:51Well,
31:51first of all,
31:52we're citizens too.
31:53We have a responsibility
31:54for the good
31:55of the nation
31:56and the common
31:57good of the world.
31:58So there really
32:00should not be
32:01any hesitation
32:02on our part
32:03to offer
32:04what we can
32:06from our own
32:06tradition,
32:08but also
32:08to recall
32:09in history
32:10how the world
32:13has come together
32:14since the Second
32:15World War
32:15in order to solve
32:16problems.
32:18I'm old enough
32:19to have lived
32:21in those years
32:22post-World War II
32:24where I saw
32:25the United Nations
32:27come together
32:27where treaties
32:29between allies,
32:30especially in NATO,
32:32were drafted.
32:33And when we see
32:36that those kinds
32:37of ways
32:40in which
32:41multilateralism
32:42has been built
32:44evaporate now,
32:45we can speak
32:47to those issues
32:47from our own
32:48experience,
32:49but also from
32:50the basis
32:50of our own
32:51moral teaching.
32:54Cardinal Cupich,
32:55we're speaking
32:56tonight while
32:56you are in
32:57Chicago.
32:58Obviously,
32:59that's your
33:00diocese.
33:02Chicago has
33:02really been
33:03through a lot
33:04in these last
33:05couple of months.
33:05I have to ask
33:06for your reflections
33:08not just on
33:09what the government
33:10did to put
33:12immigrant communities
33:13and immigrants
33:13and the people
33:14of Chicago broadly
33:15in such difficulty
33:17over the past few months,
33:18but the response
33:19of the people
33:19of Chicago.
33:20Your reflections
33:21on the way
33:23people responded
33:25to this influx
33:26of federal agents,
33:27the mutual aid
33:28actions that people
33:29took to try to help
33:30immigrant families
33:31and immigrant communities,
33:32and the way
33:33people peacefully
33:34protested
33:35against federal
33:37agents trying
33:38to stop
33:39the mass
33:39deportation campaigns
33:41that you have
33:42condemned.
33:43Well, I think
33:44there was
33:45an appreciation
33:46of the fact
33:47that Chicago
33:47is the immigrant
33:49city.
33:49We are,
33:50even this day,
33:52in the Catholic
33:53Church,
33:53we celebrate mass
33:54in 26 different
33:55languages.
33:56So we have
33:57our finger
33:57on the pulse
33:58of what an
33:59immigrant community
34:00is.
34:01And so we have
34:02organized from
34:03early on
34:04legal services
34:05for people,
34:07ways in which
34:08we can support
34:08them materially
34:09in terms of
34:10food and
34:12necessary ways
34:13in which they
34:14can visit
34:15hospitals or
34:16doctors to
34:18give that kind
34:19of support.
34:19And people have
34:20pulled together
34:20in order for
34:21that to happen.
34:22So I'm very
34:23proud of that,
34:24but I'm not
34:25surprised.
34:26At the heart
34:27of who we are
34:28in Chicago here
34:29is a deep
34:30appreciation of
34:31our immigrant
34:32roots.
34:34Cardinal Blaise
34:35Supich,
34:35Archbishop of
34:36Chicago,
34:37sir, it is an
34:37honor to have
34:38you with us
34:38here this
34:39evening.
34:40Cable news
34:41talking with
34:42somebody of
34:42your position
34:42in the church
34:43is a very
34:45rare thing,
34:45and I'm
34:46conscious of
34:46what an honor
34:47this is.
34:47Thank you,
34:48sir.
34:49Well, I hope
34:50it's maybe the
34:51first of other
34:51chances we can
34:52get together.
34:53Me too.
34:54Thank you,
34:55sir.
34:55All right,
34:55more news
34:55ahead here
34:56tonight.
34:56Stay with
34:56us.
35:01It's a small
35:02airline.
35:03It's called
35:03Avelo,
35:04A-V-E-L-O.
35:05This year,
35:05we've talked
35:05about it a
35:06whole bunch
35:06on this show
35:07because we
35:07took note
35:08fairly early
35:09in this
35:09Trump
35:10administration's
35:10first year.
35:12We took note
35:12that all over
35:13the country,
35:13people were
35:14starting to
35:14protest this
35:15little airline.
35:17It's really
35:18not a high
35:18profile thing.
35:19It mostly
35:19serves smaller
35:20airports,
35:20places like
35:21New Haven,
35:21Connecticut,
35:22or Santa
35:22Rosa,
35:23California.
35:23But when
35:24Trump came
35:24back to the
35:25White House,
35:25Avelo decided
35:26they would
35:26make money
35:27by working
35:28with the
35:29Trump
35:29administration
35:29to fly
35:31deportation
35:31flights,
35:32in addition
35:33to all the
35:33commercial flights
35:34they were offering
35:35to retail
35:35passengers.
35:37That combination
35:38translated into
35:39a lot of
35:39protests against
35:40Avelo because
35:41honestly,
35:41it's kind of
35:42a tough sell,
35:42right?
35:43Fly us to
35:43Key West for
35:44vacation and
35:45pay no attention
35:46to the waste
35:47chains and
35:48shackles we're
35:49also using to
35:50fly other
35:50passengers to
35:51legal black hole
35:52prison camps.
35:55For months,
35:56people protested
35:57against Avelo
35:58Airlines at more
35:59and more airports
35:59across the country.
36:00Last summer,
36:02we reported
36:02that Avelo
36:03had decided
36:04to pull out
36:04of airports
36:05in California,
36:07Nevada,
36:07Oregon,
36:08Washington State,
36:09and also
36:09Montana.
36:10They shut down
36:11all of their
36:11West Coast
36:12routes,
36:13saying the
36:13decision had
36:14nothing to do
36:15with the
36:15protests at
36:16all.
36:16But then on
36:17the East Coast,
36:18we saw the
36:18state of
36:18Connecticut
36:19cut off
36:19some state
36:20subsidies for
36:21Avelo because
36:22it was carrying
36:23ICE prisoners
36:24on deportation
36:25flights.
36:25After that,
36:26Avelo pulled
36:27out of the
36:27airport in
36:28Hartford,
36:28Connecticut as
36:29well.
36:29At the end
36:30of October,
36:3113,000
36:32petitions were
36:33delivered to
36:34the governor
36:34of Maryland
36:35calling on him
36:36to cancel
36:37Maryland state
36:38contracts with
36:39Avelo,
36:39calling on Avelo
36:40to be banned
36:41from BWI,
36:42from Baltimore,
36:43Washington,
36:43International Airport.
36:45Month by month,
36:46protest by protest,
36:48petition by petition,
36:49from Baltimore
36:50to Hartford
36:51to Rochester,
36:51New York,
36:52to Wilmington,
36:52Delaware,
36:53to Burbank,
36:54California,
36:55Daytona Beach,
36:55Florida,
36:56everywhere.
36:57Americans kept
36:58the pressure on Avelo
36:59in a million
36:59different ways.
37:00The airline was
37:01clearly feeling
37:02the pressure.
37:04And we know that
37:05because,
37:05guess what,
37:06Avelo Airlines
37:07has now announced
37:08that they are
37:08ending their
37:10deportation flights.
37:11They are ending
37:11their work with ICE.
37:13The airline is saying
37:14in a statement that
37:14the deportation flights,
37:15quote,
37:16did not deliver
37:17enough consistent
37:18and predictable revenue
37:19to overcome its
37:21operational complexity
37:22and costs.
37:25We know a lot
37:26about what some
37:26of those costs
37:27were.
37:29In less than a year,
37:30Avelo Airlines
37:31went from
37:31enthusiastically signing up
37:33to run deportation
37:34flights for Trump
37:35to make some
37:36extra cash
37:37to having to
37:39shut down
37:39multiple routes
37:40and pull out
37:40of multiple airports
37:41to getting out
37:42of the deportation
37:43flight business
37:43altogether.
37:44This is
37:45a victory,
37:47a very clear victory
37:48for the coalition
37:49of everyday Americans
37:50who decided
37:51to take this on,
37:52who decided
37:52they would pressure
37:53this airline
37:54to get out
37:55of Trump's
37:55deportation business.
37:57They did it
37:58and it worked
37:59and it is worth
37:59understanding
38:00exactly how they did it.
38:02One of the organizers
38:02joins us next.
38:07Refuse inevitability.
38:09Refuse inevitability.
38:10Nothing is inevitable.
38:12The company
38:13Avelo Airlines
38:14has now stopped
38:15providing deportation
38:16flights for ICE
38:17in the Trump administration.
38:18That's a decision
38:19that follows months
38:20of protests
38:20pushing Avelo
38:22to do just that.
38:23When the organizers,
38:24some of the organizers
38:25of that effort
38:27to push Avelo
38:27to make this decision
38:29learned that they had won
38:30when Avelo
38:31made its announcement
38:32that it was quitting ICE,
38:34two of the organizers
38:35who had supported
38:35that protest campaign
38:36wrote a sort of
38:38online explainer
38:39about how they did it
38:41and what they learned
38:42in the process.
38:43They said in part,
38:44quote,
38:44more than anything
38:45this campaign
38:46proves the fragility
38:47of the system.
38:49ICE
38:49and the security forces
38:50of this current government
38:51are not invulnerable.
38:54This win proves
38:55what happens
38:56when we refuse
38:57inevitability
38:58and fight together.
39:00That lesson is dangerous
39:01to any system
39:02that survives
39:03on our silence
39:03and our resignation
39:04to the idea
39:05that we can't change anything
39:06because we can
39:08and we did
39:09and there's more to come.
39:11Joining us now
39:12is Umi Haack,
39:13one of the authors
39:14of that piece.
39:14She does trainings
39:15at Defend and Recruit,
39:16which is an immigrant
39:17defense network
39:18that's one of the many groups
39:19that supported
39:20this successful campaign
39:21to get Avelo Airlines
39:22to stop working with ICE.
39:24Ms. Haack,
39:24it's nice to meet you.
39:25Thanks very much
39:25for being here.
39:27Thanks for having me
39:28and thanks for all your
39:29incredible coverage
39:30of this campaign.
39:31It's just,
39:32yeah,
39:32it's a joy to be here.
39:35Well,
39:35let me ask you
39:35about the campaign.
39:37It seemed to me,
39:38covering it from the outside,
39:38like this started bubbling up
39:40sort of organically
39:42when people
39:43did their own research,
39:44did their own work
39:45and realized
39:45what Avelo was doing,
39:46maybe while they were
39:47also flying commercial flights
39:49at their local
39:50regional airports.
39:51What were the origins
39:53of this
39:53and how did it
39:54coalesce into something
39:55sort of more cohesive?
39:58Yeah,
39:59this campaign
40:00really did begin
40:00because people
40:01started noticing something
40:02that they definitely
40:03didn't want us to notice.
40:05Deportation flights
40:05usually take place
40:06in the shadows.
40:07They're hidden
40:08from anyone
40:08knowing about them.
40:10But then some local
40:10organizers in Connecticut
40:11realized that Avelo,
40:13which branded itself
40:13as a hometown brand,
40:16had signed a contract
40:17to actually take
40:17these flights.
40:18And so they started
40:19some local organizing
40:20and there was a handful
40:21of protests
40:22across the country
40:22and they launched
40:23this incredible
40:24boycott petition
40:24and called on all of us
40:26to boycott with them
40:27as well.
40:27And that caught attention
40:29of us at Siembra,
40:30North Carolina
40:31and our defendant
40:31accrued brand.
40:33A coalition started
40:34forming together
40:35of the groups
40:35called the Stop Avelo
40:36Coalition.
40:37Other groups
40:37started getting involved
40:38like Mahente
40:39and then we started
40:39digging into it more
40:40and it became
40:42really obvious
40:42that Avelo
40:44was a public company
40:45that had a brand,
40:46customers,
40:47public funding
40:47and they were on
40:48a quest for more funding.
40:49And it wasn't only
40:50in the state of Connecticut
40:51where actual citizens
40:53and taxpayers
40:54were actually paying
40:55for these flights
40:55because of subsidies.
40:57And so we realized
40:58that that made them
40:59an especially important
41:00and especially vulnerable
41:01target
41:02and started all
41:03working together
41:03to be able
41:04to leverage
41:05different strategies
41:06to be able
41:06to really affect
41:07this pillar of support
41:08on ICE's deportation regime
41:10and eventually
41:10win this outcome together.
41:14You say an important
41:15and vulnerable target,
41:18important in the sense
41:19that obviously ICE
41:21was using Avelo,
41:23they don't necessarily
41:24need Avelo,
41:25but how does a campaign
41:26like this
41:28target or weaken
41:30the overall ICE deportation
41:31scheme that you're opposed to?
41:34Yeah, we know that ICE
41:36and depends on pillars
41:39of support
41:39that make it possible
41:40for ICE to be able
41:41to do anything.
41:42Being able to take passengers
41:44on an aircraft
41:45and kidnapping people
41:46and putting people
41:47on those flights
41:47is one of those ways
41:48of being able to do that.
41:50And so noticing
41:51that this company
41:51was a public company
41:52that had signed on
41:53for these flights,
41:54had said they had done it
41:55for financial reasons,
41:57that they were doing it
41:58for the money
41:59and then also seeing
42:00that we would be able
42:01to not only,
42:02we could not only
42:03affect this company,
42:04but also send a signal
42:05to any company
42:06or corporation
42:07that's thinking
42:08about doing business
42:09with ICE
42:09or doing business
42:10with ICE
42:10to show the resistance
42:12that's possible
42:12and that will be
42:13mobilized and organized
42:14if these contracts
42:15are taken.
42:17That's why we say
42:18it's especially important
42:19and especially vulnerable
42:20as well.
42:22Important in the sense
42:23that public,
42:26important in the sense
42:27that its actions
42:28are key
42:29to what ICE
42:30is able to do
42:31vulnerable
42:31in the sense
42:32that it's got
42:32public-facing needs
42:35that are visible
42:36to its opponents
42:36as well as
42:37to its potential customers.
42:39Umi Hawk,
42:41Defend and Recruit
42:42Immigrant Defense Network
42:43that supported
42:43this pressure campaign
42:44on Avello Airlines,
42:45a successful campaign.
42:47Ms. Hawk,
42:48please stay in touch.
42:48I'd be really interested
42:49to hear about
42:50what you and your colleagues
42:50are working on next.
42:51I think this is a really
42:52important signal campaign
42:54that you were part of.
42:56Yeah, absolutely.
42:57And if folks are looking
42:58to get more involved,
42:59now is the time
43:00to get involved
43:01with organizing
43:01around immigration defense
43:02and there's resources
43:03and tools on our website
43:04around other corporations
43:05that are enabling ICE,
43:06other ways that you can get involved
43:07in these coalition efforts.
43:09The fight doesn't stop now.
43:10We really do need
43:11to refuse inevitability.
43:12And now is the time,
43:13especially if you're not
43:14an immigrant yourself,
43:14to get involved
43:15in campaigns
43:16and protests
43:17and organizing
43:18so that we can turn
43:19outrage into action
43:20and then action
43:21into actual power.
43:24Umi Hawk,
43:24thank you very much.
43:25All right,
43:26we'll be right back.
43:26Stay with us.
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