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00:00Team USA is headed back to the World Baseball Classic Final, but the way they got there is what everyone
00:06is talking about.
00:06The 10th 2-1 semifinal win over the Dominican Republic ended with a call third strike, a pitch that replay
00:12and tracking data suggests was below the zone.
00:15And now the conversation around the game has quickly shifted from a great baseball game to whether technology should be
00:21part of the tournament.
00:23Controversy aside, Team USA found a way to win a heavyweight fight, and now they're one win away from a
00:28World Baseball Classic title.
00:29So joining me to break it all down is a contributor to the New York Post and an international sports
00:34competition enthusiast.
00:35Trust me, people, he is an enthusiast here.
00:38His name is Brian Fonseca. You see him right there, and he joins me now.
00:41Brian, what's going on? I talked to you at the start of the WBC.
00:44I assume that you were really enjoying this. Not sure you enjoyed to finish this game, but how are you
00:49doing?
00:51Game can't end like that, man. We'll talk about it, but, you know, it's more nuanced.
00:56It's more nuanced than maybe people on Twitter want to fight about, but it's, yeah, game can't end like that.
01:02Good luck with that. That's not, that's never happened.
01:04Yeah. I'm not even sure a lot of those people exist, to be fair.
01:09Fair enough. But let's start about this. Let's talk about the moment that everybody's talking about.
01:13The game ends on that called third strike against Geraldo Perdomo, a pitch that, I said, replaying tracking data suggests
01:20was below the zone.
01:21We all saw it. So, when you watch that final sequence, what was your reaction, and how do you think
01:27it will shape the conversation around this game, which was a pretty well-played game, except for a couple of
01:34calls?
01:35It was a great game. It was two of the best lineups that were getting all tournament.
01:39I thought the Dominican Republic had the best lineup, and I thought Team USA probably had one of the best,
01:43if not the best, combination of hitting and pitching in terms of all-around team.
01:47And we saw it become a pitcher's duel, which not everyone probably expected leading into that contest.
01:53And then it gets ruined, basically, with the umpiring in not even just the last Sauer Perdomo, but if you
02:00remember an inning before with Juan Soto, there was another pitch well below the zone.
02:06Not as egregious as it was in the ninth inning, but there was another pitch well below the zone.
02:10We know how good Juan Soto's eye is. I think we can trust Juan Soto on this one.
02:14And if you just look at the replay, it was well below, and they call that a strike as well.
02:18And that was a meaningful tilt, because then that sort of shakes up how the eighth inning turns out.
02:23The Dominican Republic had opportunities to win this game before that, and I won't even say, like, listen, there's not
02:30a guarantee they end up winning this game, although I think they could have.
02:34There's not a guarantee that they end up winning this game if the call is right in the ninth inning.
02:38That being said, you can't end it like that.
02:40And the umpiring, especially in this round, has been very shaky.
02:43You saw with Puerto Rico versus Italy, Seth Lugo had a couple of pitches that were strikes, like, really strikes
02:50right on the corners, beautifully pitched.
02:52They were called balls, and they ended up being balls to send runners on base.
02:56That contributed to walks, that eventually contributed into runs for the Italian national team, and that sort of metastasized throughout
03:03the rest of the game.
03:04Like, that set the tone for the game and why Seth Lugo had a shaky start.
03:07He got an unfortunate look after unfortunate look on multiple occasions.
03:10This was more egregious, and a game of this quality, the greatness on both sides in terms of pitching.
03:17You cannot end a game of this magnitude like this.
03:20Yeah, it was really disappointing how the game ended.
03:23And as you mentioned, it wasn't just that last pitch.
03:26There was that earlier call strike on Juan Soto.
03:28That raised eyebrows.
03:29Definitely raised your eyebrows.
03:31And because of that, one of the big discussions coming out of this game is the lack of the automated
03:35ball strike system, ABS.
03:38Given what happened in that final at bat and the other lack of called strike, or the called strike to
03:44Juan Soto, I should say, that was lack of calling a ball,
03:47do you think this moment becomes a turning point that pushes the WBC toward using ABS in future tournaments?
03:54Yes, it turned me, Dex.
03:57Like, going into the tournament, and as we're getting into more, like, AI, robots in general, you have queasy feelings
04:05about these things.
04:06As it pertains to baseball, you do want the human element of, hey, umpire occasionally is going to make mistakes.
04:11And then, you know, you want, you know, you also want managers to argue with umpires.
04:16It's an element of the game you don't want to lose.
04:17At the same time, though, you should try to get more of these calls right.
04:21And if you have the ABS system, and if it doesn't prolong games too long, like, that's something that we're
04:27going to have to look out for.
04:28Because if games are just going back to being over three hours, then it's going to be something that you
04:33have to, like, figure out the timing of.
04:35That being said, these things, especially when it's deciding games, in a way, toward the end, like, you cannot allow
04:43that to happen.
04:44And I don't know why, Dex, we're doing the ABS system, and we're rolling it out in spring training when
04:50we probably should have been here already, one.
04:52But two, why are we not doing this for the WBC already?
04:55Because it's going to be here in 2029.
04:56There's no way it's not, given what we just saw here in this game and in other games throughout the
05:01tournament.
05:02It's been the one thing that's been constant.
05:04It's like the umpires have not been very consistent in this tournament.
05:08So I think we're going to have it, but I don't know how you're rolling it out in spring training
05:12and not having it ready for the World Baseball Classic already.
05:16And you're going to have it ready for Major League Baseball this season.
05:19That quite doesn't make sense to me in terms of timing.
05:21So I understand that you would have had to have done the measurements of all the players because that's what
05:26they had to do to get this ready for spring training and for the Major League season.
05:29And yes, there are some players spread out in other places, but I feel like they could get it done.
05:34And I guess what I'll say to that is they should get it done.
05:38By the time 2029 rolls around, because if they don't, there's going to be a lot of talk because a
05:42lot of people are going to remember this from this game.
05:44I think it gets done, right?
05:46But I guess my point is they should be more like if we know we were trending in this direction
05:51anyway, maybe be more proactive and get it ready before the World Baseball Classic.
05:55That's fair.
05:55You have the resources to do it.
05:57It's not a resources thing either.
05:58Like clearly you can do this.
06:00Right.
06:00No, that's that's fair.
06:01And you always want to be proactive.
06:03And now it seems like they will have to be reactive.
06:05And it seems like it will come because of this controversial call or calls, I should say, in this game
06:11between Team USA and Dominican Republic.
06:13But let's set aside the controversy for a moment.
06:16This was a game where Team USA really had to pitch and defend.
06:20It was a pitcher's duel, as you mentioned earlier.
06:22What does a 2-1 win over the Dominican lineup, which feature guys like Soto, Tatis, and Guerrero say about
06:27the way this team, Team USA, that is, is built right now?
06:32It kind of makes you question why they lost against Italy, who is not, I would say Italy is a
06:38good team, but they shouldn't be somebody who you would put over the United States team or the Dominican Republic
06:44team or even Venezuela or Japan, who Venezuela beat, for example.
06:48Like going into the tournament, the U.S., DR, Venezuela, Japan, in no particular order were the top four teams
06:54in this tournament.
06:55And I've been up here saying DR has the best lineup and could win this tournament.
07:00The United States has great fielding, has very good pitching as well.
07:04Venezuela, we'll see them against Italy today.
07:06And Italy's been playing really well.
07:08Like they got great wins over the United States.
07:10They hung on against Puerto Rico, for example.
07:12But at the same time, I think as it relates to the U.S., like they showed their balance, right?
07:16Like Paul Skeens went out there.
07:18He was great.
07:18We're going to see what happens with their pitching staff in a couple of days.
07:22They're also going to have a rest advantage for what that's worth.
07:24So the pitching matchups to watch tonight are going to be interesting as it pertains to Venezuela and Italy because
07:29the United States has tonight off and then we're into the championship tomorrow.
07:34So whoever plays today, they're basically on a back-to-back, to use a basketball term.
07:40In baseball, it's obviously more common.
07:42But, you know, this is a winner-take-all, gold medal game, essentially, in which the United States will have
07:49a leg up because some of their pitchers who pitched on Sunday will get to rest on.
07:53And we'll get to rest and be ready for Tuesday.
07:56So I think they're going to have that advantage as well.
07:58So looking ahead to the final, Brian, we're expecting to see Mets young star Nolan McLean get the ball for
08:04Team USA.
08:05What have you seen from McLean's rise during his time with the Mets and then also pitching in this tournament
08:11that makes him ready for a moment this big on an international stage?
08:17It was a little shaky in the game against Italy after an initially good start.
08:21So he'll have to bounce back for that.
08:23And it may come against Italy and have that opportunity.
08:26But of all the Mets prospects that we talk about, Dex, like he's one of the ones and is the
08:32one from a pitching standpoint, at least.
08:34But one of the ones that you really have an eye on moving forward.
08:36The fact that he can even make this team and this pitching rotation speaks volumes for where he is in
08:42his career right now at 24 years old.
08:45He'll be 25 in July.
08:46So there's still plenty of time before we get to that point.
08:49But we saw him last year in the majors come through and was one of the reasons, honestly, that you
08:53look forward to this season, regardless of who was going to be on the roster.
08:56And now you see that he's going to have a rotation with them, with Freddy Peralta, with Kodai Senga.
09:01We'll see what he brings this year and we'll see where other guys fit in like Sean Minaya and David
09:04Peterson.
09:05But you know that he's going to be part of that.
09:07And this is just going to be a great experience for him because you're going to get to see him
09:11just like you saw with other young pitchers in yesterday's game, like Paul Skeens from Team USA.
09:15And then with Juan Mejia, for example, in the Dominican Republic, you're seeing guys get put into high leverage situations
09:22early on in their careers.
09:23Things that you cannot replicate in spring training and things that you can't always replicate with regular season baseball.
09:29Things that really feel like playoff style atmospheres because that's what this is.
09:33And you know, Dex, from watching the EPL because people still want to have this conversation and still are confused.
09:39Even in New York City, of all places, are still confused about why players, Aaron Judge being the latest, saying
09:45like this intensity is different.
09:46This intensity is different than being in a World Series.
09:50And you know, Dex, from watching the EPL, winning for Liverpool is different than winning for, say, your country.
09:56And you have various guys on those teams from different countries.
10:00So that's the kind of pressure that you can't really replicate in Major League Baseball until maybe you get to
10:05the postseason, obviously.
10:06But you can't give them postseason simulation style baseball now.
10:09So you might as well do it with the World Baseball Classic where everything is going to be on the
10:13line.
10:13And this means so much more to a lot of people.
10:15Yeah, it's going to be huge for Nolan McLean and his development to get this chance likely here in the
10:21title game.
10:21Last thing for me, Brian.
10:22Team USA, they're going to face the winner, as you mentioned, Venezuela or Italy.
10:26When you look at those two teams, which matchup do you think suits Team USA better from a roster and
10:32style perspective in terms of them being able to get the win in this game?
10:35Which is the better matchup for Team USA?
10:39Even though Italy got the win, I would still say them because I think they just kind of caught the
10:43United States slipping last time.
10:45And it's going to be hard to beat them twice in a row with a team with that quality.
10:50I think Venezuela is a super wild card.
10:52Like, they have some pitching.
10:53Obviously, we saw Ranger Suarez in their last game get off to a decent start and help get them, you
10:59know, that victory against Japan.
11:00But they also have guys in their lineup, not to mention Ronald Acuna Jr.
11:03So, I think with Venezuela, like, they have the hitting with Acuna, with Eugenio Suarez.
11:09And they also have – it's kind of like a version of the Dominican Republic team that I would say
11:14is not as talented, not as high of a ceiling.
11:16Just how people try to say, like, oh, the Timberwolves are Knicks West when it's like, no, the Knicks have
11:20a higher ceiling, but I get what you're trying to say.
11:22They're probably, like, a slightly worse version.
11:24I would say Venezuela has some of the dynamic offense that the Dominican Republic has as well.
11:30They were able to come back.
11:31They didn't win that game that they had in pool play, but they were able to come back and make
11:34it a game toward the end because the Dominican Republic had all of their runs early on.
11:39Venezuela has an electric, electric offense.
11:41They're also slightly favored in this game, as I'm looking at it right now, by one and a half runs,
11:46which is interesting.
11:47But the Italian national team is going to trot out Arenola to start this one.
11:50And they do have pitching, as they showed, against an albeit weakened Puerto Rican lineup who didn't have many of
11:57their best players, probably, I would say, their C team, not even their B team.
12:00But they still demonstrated some very good pitching in that game up until the end where it got a little
12:05bit dicey.
12:06But I think Venezuela would be the tougher matchup for Team USA because of the electric offense.
12:11But I do think that Team USA has demonstrated they have the pitching to handle this, especially with the day's
12:16rest.
12:16That's going to be important, and it's going to be important to see how many guys Venezuela puts out there
12:21in this game and to what degree they do, because the winner of this game, again, is going to play
12:2624 hours later.
12:28Yeah, it's going to be a tough challenge for the winner of Venezuela and Italy.
12:32They will face Team USA in the final.
12:34We'll see how it all goes down.
12:35Team USA getting a 2-1 victory over the Dominican Republic on Sunday night to advance to the final.
12:41But a lot of controversy.
12:42Hopefully, ABS coming soon to the World Baseball Classic in 2029.
12:46That is Brian Fonseca.
12:47Check him out with us here at the New York Post Sports as a contributor for us.
12:52Brian, you've got a couple more games left here in the World Baseball Classic.
12:56Enjoy it, and then you'll be on to your next international competition fix.
13:00Thanks for joining me, man.
13:01Appreciate it.
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