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00:00Team USA is headed back to the World Baseball Classic Final, but the way they got there is what everyone
00:06is talking about.
00:06The 10th 2-1 semifinal win over the Dominican Republic ended with a call third strike, a pitch that replay
00:12and tracking data suggests was below the zone.
00:15And now the conversation around the game has quickly shifted from a great baseball game to whether technology should be
00:21part of the tournament.
00:22Controversy aside, Team USA found a way to win a heavyweight fight, and now they're one win away from a
00:28World Baseball Classic title.
00:29So joining me to break it all down is a contributor to the New York Post and an international sports
00:34competition enthusiast.
00:35Trust me, people, he is an enthusiast here.
00:37His name is Brian Fonseca. You see him right there, and he joins me now.
00:41Brian, what's going on? I talked to you at the start of the WBC.
00:44I assume that you were really enjoying this. Not sure you enjoyed to finish this game, but how are you
00:49doing?
00:51Game can't end like that, man. We'll talk about it, but, you know, it's more nuanced.
00:56It's more nuanced than maybe people on Twitter want to fight about, but it's, yeah, game can't end like that.
01:02Good luck with that. That's not, that's never happened.
01:04Yeah. I'm not even sure a lot of those people exist, to be fair.
01:08Fair enough. But let's start about this. Let's talk about the moment that everybody's talking about.
01:13The game ends on that call third strike against Geraldo Perdomo, a pitch that, I said, replaying tracking data suggests
01:20was below the zone.
01:21We all saw it. So, when you watch that final sequence, what was your reaction, and how do you think
01:27it will shape the conversation around this game, which was a pretty well-played game, except for a couple of
01:33calls?
01:35It was a great game. It was two of the best lineups that were getting all tournament. I thought the
01:39Dominican Republic had the best lineup, and I thought Team USA probably had one of the best, if not the
01:44best, combination of hitting and pitching,
01:45in terms of all-around team, and we saw it become a pitcher's duel, which not everyone probably expected leading
01:51into that contest.
01:53And then it gets ruined, basically, with the umpiring in not even just the last Sauer Perdomo, but if you
02:00remember an inning before with Juan Soto, there was another pitch well below the zone.
02:06Not as egregious as it was in the ninth inning, but there was another pitch well below the zone. We
02:10know how good Juan Soto's eye is.
02:12I think we can trust Juan Soto on this one, and if you just look at the replay, it was
02:15well below, and they call that a strike as well, and that was a meaningful tilt, because then that sort
02:21of shakes up how the eighth inning turns out.
02:23The Dominican Republic had opportunities to win this game before that, and I won't even say, like, listen, there's not
02:30a guarantee they end up winning this game, although I think they could have.
02:34There's not a guarantee that they end up winning this game if the call is right in the ninth inning.
02:38That being said, you can't end it like that, and the umpiring, especially in this round, has been very shaky.
02:43You saw it with Puerto Rico versus Italy.
02:45Seth Lugo had a couple of pitches that were strikes, like, really strikes right on the corners, beautifully pitched.
02:52They were called balls, and they ended up being balls to send runners on base.
02:56That contributed to walks, that eventually contributed into runs for the Italian national team, and that sort of metastasized throughout
03:03the rest of the game.
03:04Like, that set the tone for the game, and why Seth Lugo had a shaky start.
03:06You got an unfortunate look after unfortunate look on multiple occasions.
03:10This was more egregious, and a game of this quality, the greatness on both sides in terms of pitching, you
03:17cannot end a game of this magnitude like this.
03:20Yeah, it was really disappointing how the game ended, and as you mentioned, it wasn't just that last pitch.
03:25There was that earlier call strike on Juan Soto, that raised eyebrows, definitely raised your eyebrows, and because of that,
03:33one of the big discussions coming out of this game is the lack of the automated ball strike system, ABS.
03:38Given what happened in that final at bat, and the other lack of call strike, or the call strike to
03:44Juan Soto, I should say, that was lack of calling a ball,
03:46do you think this moment becomes a turning point that pushes the WBC toward using ABS in future tournaments?
03:54Yes, it turned me, Dex.
03:56Like, going into the tournament, and as we're getting into more, like, AI, robots in general, you have queasy feelings
04:05about these things.
04:05As it pertains to baseball, you do want the human element of, hey, umpire occasionally is going to make mistakes,
04:11and then, you know, you want, you know, you also want managers to argue with umpires.
04:15It's an element of the game you don't want to lose.
04:17At the same time, though, you should try to get more of these calls right, and if you have the
04:22ABS system, and if it doesn't prolong games too long, like, that's something that we're going to have to look
04:27out for,
04:27because if games are just going back to being over three hours, then it's going to be something that you
04:33have to, like, figure out the timing of.
04:35That being said, these things, especially when it's deciding games, in a way, toward the end, like, you cannot allow
04:43that to happen.
04:43And I don't know why, Dex, we're doing the ABS system, and we're rolling it out in spring training when
04:50we probably should have been here already, one.
04:52But two, why are we not doing this for the WBC already?
04:54Because it's going to be here in 2029.
04:56There's no way it's not, given what we just saw here in this game and in other games throughout the
05:01tournament.
05:02It's been the one thing that's been constant.
05:04It's like the umpires have not been very consistent in this tournament.
05:08So I think we're going to have it, but I don't know how you're rolling it out in spring training
05:12and not having it ready for the World Baseball Classic already,
05:16and you're going to have it ready for Major League Baseball this season.
05:19That quite doesn't make sense to me in terms of timing.
05:21So I understand that you would have had to have done the measurements of all the players,
05:25because that's what they had to do to get this ready for spring training and for the Major League season.
05:29And yes, there are some players spread out in other places, but I feel like they could get it done.
05:34And I guess what I'll say to that is they should get it done by the time 2029 rolls around,
05:39because if they don't, there's going to be a lot of talk, because a lot of people are going to
05:43remember this from this game.
05:44I think it gets done, right?
05:46But I guess my point is they should be more, like if we know we were trending in this direction
05:51anyway,
05:51maybe be more proactive and get it ready before the World Baseball Classic.
05:55That's fair.
05:55You have the resources to do it.
05:57It's not a resources thing either.
05:58Like clearly you can do this.
06:00Right.
06:00No, that's fair.
06:01And you always want to be proactive, and now it seems like they will have to be reactive.
06:05And it seems like it will come because of this controversial call or calls, I should say,
06:10in this game between Team USA and Dominican Republic.
06:13But let's set aside the controversy for a moment.
06:16This was a game where Team USA really had to pitch and defend.
06:20It was a pitcher's duel, as you mentioned earlier.
06:22What does a 2-1 win over the Dominican lineup, which feature guys like Soto, Tatis, and Guerrero
06:27say about the way this team, Team USA that is, is built right now?
06:32It kind of makes you question why they lost against Italy, who is not, I would say Italy
06:38is a good team, but they shouldn't be somebody who you would put over the United States team
06:43or the Dominican Republic team or even Venezuela or Japan, who Venezuela beat, for example.
06:48Like going into the tournament, the US, DR, Venezuela, Japan, in no particular order, were
06:53the top four teams in this tournament.
06:55And I've been up here saying DR has the best lineup and could win this tournament.
07:00The United States has great fielding, has very good pitching as well.
07:04Venezuela, we'll see them against Italy today.
07:06And Italy's been playing really well.
07:08Like they got great wins over the United States.
07:10They hung on against Puerto Rico, for example.
07:12But at the same time, I think as it relates to the US, like they showed their balance, right?
07:16Like Paul Skeens went out there.
07:18He was great.
07:18We're going to see what happens with their pitching staff in a couple of days.
07:22They're also going to have a rest advantage for what that's worth.
07:24So the pitching matchups to watch tonight are going to be interesting as it pertains to
07:28Venezuela and Italy because the United States has tonight off and then we're into the championship
07:33tomorrow.
07:34So whoever plays today, they're basically on a back-to-back to use a basketball term.
07:40Baseball, it's obviously more common, but, you know, this is a winner-take-all gold medal
07:45game, essentially, in which the United States will have a leg up because some of their pitchers
07:50who pitched on Sunday will get to rest on and will get to rest and be ready for Tuesday.
07:55So I think they're going to have that advantage as well.
07:58So looking ahead to the final, Brian, we're expecting to see Mets young star Nolan McLean
08:03get the ball for Team USA.
08:05What have you seen from McLean's rise during his time with the Mets and then also pitching
08:11in this tournament that makes him ready for a moment this big on an international stage?
08:17It was a little shaky in the game against Italy after an initially good start.
08:21So he'll have to bounce back for that and it may come against Italy and have that opportunity.
08:25But of all the Mets prospects that we talk about, Dex, like he's one of the ones and is
08:32the one from a pitching standpoint, at least, but one of the ones that you really have an
08:35eye on moving forward.
08:36The fact that he can even make this team and this pitching rotation speaks volumes for where
08:41he is in his career right now at 24 years old, he'll be 25 in July.
08:46So there's still plenty of time before we get to that point, but we saw him last year in
08:49the majors come through and was one of the reasons, honestly, that you look forward to
08:54this season, regardless of who was going to be on the roster.
08:56And now you see that he's going to have a rotation with them, with Freddy Peraza, with
09:00Kodai Senga.
09:01We'll see what he brings this year and we'll see where other guys fit in like Sean Mania
09:04and David Peterson.
09:05But you know that he's going to be part of that.
09:06And this is just going to be a great experience for him because you're going to get to see him
09:10just like you saw with other young pitchers in yesterday's game, like Paul Skenes from
09:14Team USA.
09:15And then with Juan Mejia, for example, in the Dominican Republic, you're seeing guys get
09:19put into high leverage situations early on in their careers, things that you cannot
09:24replicate in spring training and things that you can't always replicate with regular season
09:28baseball, things that really feel like playoff style atmospheres, because that's what this
09:33is.
09:33And you know, Dex, from watching the EPL, because people still want to have this conversation
09:37and still are confused, even in New York City, of all places, are still confused about why
09:43players, Aaron Judge being the latest, saying like, this intensity is different.
09:46This intensity is different than being in a World Series.
09:50And you know, Dex, from watching the EPL, winning for Liverpool is different than winning
09:55for, say, your country.
09:56And you have various guys on those teams from different countries.
10:00So that's the kind of pressure that you can't really replicate in Major League Baseball until
10:04maybe you get to the postseason, obviously, but you can't give them postseason simulation
10:08style baseball now.
10:10So you might as well do it with the World Baseball Classic, where everything is going to be on
10:13the line.
10:13And it's going to be so much more to a lot of people.
10:15Yeah, it's going to be huge for Nolan McLean and his development to get this chance, likely
10:19here in the title game.
10:21Last thing for me, Brian, Team USA, they're going to face the winner, as you mentioned,
10:25Venezuela or Italy.
10:26When you look at those two teams, which matchup do you think suits Team USA better
10:30from a roster and style perspective in terms of them being able to get the win in this
10:35game?
10:35Which is the better matchup for Team USA?
10:39Even though Italy got the win, I would still say them because I think they just kind of
10:43caught the United States slipping last time.
10:45And it's going to be hard to beat them twice in a row with the team with that quality.
10:50I think Venezuela is a super wild card.
10:52Like they have some pitching.
10:53Obviously, we've saw Ranger Suarez in their last game get off to a decent start and help
10:58get them, you know, that victory against Japan.
11:00But they also have guys in their lineup, not to mention Ronald Acuna Jr.
11:03So I think with Venezuela, like they have the hitting with Acuna, with Eugenio Suarez.
11:09And they also have, it's kind of like, it's kind of like a version of the Dominican Republic
11:13team that I would say is not as talented, not as high of a ceiling.
11:16Just how people try to say like, oh, the Timberwolves are Knicks West when it's like, no,
11:19the Knicks have a higher ceiling, but I get what you're trying to say.
11:22Oh, they're probably like a slightly worse version.
11:24I would say Venezuela has some of the dynamic offense that the Dominican Republic has as
11:29well.
11:30They were able to come back.
11:31They didn't win that game that they had in pool play, but they were able to come back
11:34and make it a game toward the end because the Dominican Republic had all of their runs
11:38early on.
11:39Venezuela has an electric, electric offense.
11:41They're also slightly favored in this game, as I'm looking at it right now, by one and a
11:45half runs, which is interesting.
11:47But the Italian national team is going to trot out Arenola to start this one.
11:50And they do have pitching, as they showed against, albeit weakened Puerto Rican lineup
11:56who didn't have many of their best players.
11:58Probably, I would say their C team, not even their B team.
12:00But they still demonstrated some very good pitching in that game up until the end where
12:05it got a little bit dicey.
12:06But I think Venezuela would be the tougher matchup for Team USA because of the electric
12:10offense.
12:10But I do think that Team USA has demonstrated they have the pitching to handle this, especially
12:15with the day's rest.
12:16That's going to be important.
12:17And it's going to be important to see how many guys Venezuela puts out there in this
12:21game and to what degree they do.
12:23Because the winner of this game, again, is going to play 24 hours later.
12:28Yeah, it's going to be a tough challenge for the winner of Venezuela and Italy.
12:32They will face Team USA in the final.
12:34We'll see how it all goes down.
12:35Team USA getting a 2-1 victory over the Dominican Republic on Sunday night to advance to the final.
12:41But a lot of controversy.
12:42Hopefully, ABS coming soon to the World Baseball Classic in 2029.
12:46That is Brian Fonseca.
12:47Check him out with us here at the New York Post Sports as a contributor for us.
12:52Brian, you got a couple more games left here in the World Baseball Classic.
12:55Enjoy it.
12:56Then you'll be on to your next international competition fix.
12:59Thanks for joining me, man.
13:01Appreciate it.
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