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00:00What's up, guys? I'm Jason Lipschatz. I'm the co-chief content officer at Billboard. I'm here with Nick Sweeney and
00:07the one and only Noah Kahn. The one and only Nick Sweeney, too. I'm sorry. I didn't mean to say
00:13that.
00:13We both want to know him. Yeah. Thank you guys for coming to the Billboard House for this discussion about
00:19Noah Kahn out of body coming soon to Netflix. I love this project. We were talking and there are a
00:29lot of artist documentaries and this one's really, really special. So first of all, congrats to you guys on it.
00:37Noah, how are you feeling, man? This is a very personal project that is about to be unveiled to the
00:41world.
00:42Yeah, I'm nervous. I feel like being vulnerable in music is something that's always come really natural to me. I
00:48think it was a lot harder for me to open up in that way, knowing that it would just be
00:52like, you know, an examination of like my life and my family. And it was hard. I'm definitely nervous. I
00:59do feel like anytime I felt nervous about vulnerability, my mom was telling me this the other day because I
01:04texted her. I was like, man, I'm just nervous for this thing.
01:06And she was like, anything that makes you uncomfortable is probably worth sharing. I think it's important to like approach
01:13the things that make you feel vulnerable or scared because a lot of people want to connect with that.
01:17And you kind of have to forget about yourself and think about the person that's watching it that maybe needs
01:22that to see that experience.
01:24So I'm excited for people to see it. I'm very proud of it. I know Nick is proud of it,
01:28too. And ultimately, it's just going to be a stressful hour and a half, probably.
01:35But there's lots of laughs. There's moments that I'd love to revisit and some that are harder for me to
01:39revisit.
01:39But I think that's what's important about art. It should make you uncomfortable.
01:42How did these conversations start? Like how like tell me the background of this documentary.
01:47Yeah. Yeah. Well, I mean, I know his music was everywhere and I was aware of that.
01:57But. And obviously, his lyrics are so detailed and cinematic that I was really excited about the idea of doing
02:02a documentary with him.
02:03We'd started to have discussions about it. But for me, what I find the most interesting is like, is somebody
02:09going to let me in while they kind of like grapple with the big questions in their life?
02:16And what I kind of noticed from the very first discussion that we had about it was that Noel was
02:22like he was really willing to go there.
02:24There was nothing that was off limits. And, you know, as we got further and further into filming, I was
02:30just like I was I was constantly waiting for him to be like, yeah, I don't want to talk about
02:34that.
02:34Or like, yeah, let's not go there. And it never happened ever.
02:38So it kind of came about in this organic way where we were having these discussions about doing something.
02:43And like I said, for me, the most important thing was just like, is he really going to let me
02:46in?
02:47And he was he was fully committed to that. So, yeah.
02:52It was it was kind of like a Trojan horse almost because I thought it was kind of just going
02:56to be documenting tour.
02:58And then I knew the second you meet my family, the second you meet my dad or my siblings, my
03:02mom, like it's you're going to want to talk to them.
03:04And as we kind of dug more into what my family life looked like in the wake of everything that
03:09was going on, I think it started to I started to realize that it was going to be a deeper
03:13thing.
03:15And I was really excited to explore that. I feel like I do that a lot in my music, but
03:19it's hard to show somebody to the world without, you know, really capturing it.
03:22I think Nick was incredibly grateful. I'm sorry, incredibly gracious and kind, asking some difficult questions, but it made it
03:31feel really natural.
03:32And I think the result kind of has a lot of truth in it for that process.
03:36Yeah, I was going to ask, like, Nick, what you kind of set out to capture at first and how
03:41that mission evolved.
03:43And it sounds like it was going to be much more like tour. This is a whirlwind career moment for
03:49Noah.
03:49And then it was like, oh, I need to spend a lot of time with his family and his friends
03:55and where he's from.
03:57Yeah, I mean, it's like you said, Noah's music is incredible and he's an amazing artist and his lyrics are
04:06so beautiful.
04:08And obviously, I was really excited about the idea of making a music focused film.
04:12But like Noah said, it's kind of like the more I saw, the more I was like, we have to
04:16cover that.
04:17We got to cover that. Like, are you cool? And then Noah was really open to it.
04:21I mean, they're really they're complicated things. And I think it's interesting that you kind of knew that it was
04:28like maybe you could see it in my eyes when it's like we were having these discussions, like asking these
04:33questions.
04:34I think it's such a complicated process because I think for somebody like Noah opening his life up in the
04:42way that he does in this film.
04:43I mean, we really go very, very deep.
04:47I think that it evolved in this way where I was just very honest and upfront with him, like, hey,
04:53I'm really interested in this for this reason.
04:55Like, for example, there are things around his family, for example, Noah wanting to be a better son to his
05:01dad and and dealing with with things around his parents.
05:05And I was going through a lot of that stuff at the time. And I remember we would have these
05:08discussions where I was like, hey, I find this really interesting because I'm going through some of it and a
05:13lot of other people going through it at the same time.
05:15And, you know, how do you feel about us exploring that? And Noah was really open about it.
05:19So in terms of like where it kind of started, which was I don't want to say just a music
05:25doc, because it would have been an incredible documentary, even if all we were covering was this like incredible tour
05:31and and Noah's music.
05:33But it it evolved into so much more than that. And I'm so grateful for that.
05:37Yeah, I think it's kind of like therapy, like for a long time, I went to therapy and I just
05:41like said enough to feel like I was being vulnerable.
05:44And I think I was guarding a lot of things. And I think the documentary process kind of started like
05:49that.
05:50You're just trying to protect these things that you hold close to you because you want some stuff for yourself
05:54when you kind of give a lot to the world.
05:56I think for me, I give a lot of myself to my music and I sometimes feel like that should
06:00be enough.
06:01But as Nick started to ask more questions and as I started to kind of contextualize like what it was
06:06looking like on camera, I started to see it as like a really healthy thing for our family.
06:11And then getting to watch it back with what the family was like really therapeutic for us.
06:15And I said this before, but I wish everybody could see the way that they treat each other and treat
06:21themselves on camera because it's really eye opening.
06:23And I think it was like a healthy thing for us to be able to watch how we interact.
06:28There's so much love there and there's so much kindness in our family and getting to see that like reaffirmed
06:32our belief in ourselves, I think, for a lot of for a lot of ways.
06:35Some of the most powerful kind of quiet moments in the documentary involve your dad and your mom and your
06:43siblings, you know, and and part of it is you discussing your songwriting process and how much they were aware
06:50of that you were sharing about your family life and and kind of grappling with that.
06:55I'm curious as to like making that leap for them going from songwriting subject to, hey, you're part of this
07:02documentary now.
07:03Like, hey, we're going to like go through old photos.
07:06I'm going to be in the back.
07:07We're going to have a camera in the backseat of our car while you're driving with your brother.
07:11Like, what was that like?
07:12Yeah, I think a big fear I had for for my family was like, hey, I signed up for this
07:17kind of thing when I got into music and when I started to tour and do interviews and be like
07:23publicly available.
07:24But, you know, they didn't they didn't ask for extra attention.
07:28They didn't ask for the songs about their divorce to be played for hundreds of thousands of people.
07:32But I did it anyways.
07:35So it was complicated.
07:36I think I had a lot more fear for it than they did.
07:39I thought they were all really brave and open that they really let Nick in.
07:43And I think they also understand that they're a fundamental part of of the story that I've told to my
07:48music.
07:48And they were very willing.
07:50I think it created a lot of conversations between me and my family that maybe we wouldn't have had without
07:55the impetus of like a documentary being made about me.
07:59And so I think on the whole, it was a good thing.
08:01Like those hard conversations might never have happened or might have taken longer to happen.
08:05And so having a documentary crew be here asking, you know, questions about my dad, his accident or my parents
08:11divorce or our childhood.
08:14Like it, it opened the door to like a lot of healthy conversation behind the scenes.
08:18And I'm really grateful for that.
08:20Nick, I'm curious, a big kind of driving point of the doc is this kind of juxtaposition.
08:26No, you actually describe it as going from 100 to zero at one point in the doc of like Fenway,
08:33lifelong dream of playing this stadium.
08:37And then the next day in your backyard, pushing a doc out, helping your mom out, like what was it
08:43like kind of capturing that juxtaposition of like these enormous moments versus like the absolute like quiet?
08:50Like because, you know, most most docs, most films exist in one mode or the other.
08:55It's very loud or it's very quiet.
08:57You have like constantly kind of oscillating.
08:59Yeah, I mean, it was bonkers.
09:02Like, like you said, it's like Fenway and it's it's 40,000 people screaming and like fireworks and just it's
09:10like every single like stimuli that you could possibly imagine.
09:14And then the next day, like Noah is making a weird like coffee, like my ears are so much cinnamon
09:21with so much cinnamon.
09:22He's making this really strange drink and and like good and all of our ears were still ringing from the
09:28night before.
09:28And it's like literally just after Fenway.
09:31And when that stuff was happening, I was like, we have to include it in the film the way that
09:33it happened.
09:34Like we have to because normally in a film, you kind of like smooth out those edges and you make
09:38the transitions slow and kind of like get the audience accustomed to it.
09:42And I was like, no, we just have to go straight from like screaming at Fenway.
09:45I mean, Noah's after Fenway, we're in the van with him and he's in this like completely transcendent state.
09:52I mean, it was part of what inspired the title Out of Body.
09:54He's he's like having an out of body experience.
09:56And like you say, seconds later in the film, he's like making this weird drink with so much cinnamon.
10:01I mean, it's it's so much cinnamon.
10:03It's like it was too much.
10:05It make me sneeze.
10:07Yeah.
10:08Yeah, it was.
10:10It's a it's a perfect encapsulation of, I think, what tours like for a lot of artists.
10:14I think that was on the broader scale outside of my story, like what touring really looks like for a
10:18lot of artists is people screaming and singing.
10:20And then you're just on your own and we cover a lot of that in the documentary of how that
10:24that kind of the vertigo from that is really hard to deal with.
10:28And I'm really glad that, Nick, that you captured that, because I think it speaks to an experience that a
10:34lot of a lot of artists have.
10:35And it'll help the audience understand the loneliness of that moment, you know, of having everybody and then nobody.
10:40It can be really hard.
10:41And I think we explored that in the doc and it's done really beautifully.
10:44You know, I don't want to spoil specifics, but you talk about things in this documentary that you've never talked
10:49about.
10:50You talk about issues and challenges that you've never talked about.
10:54When you did that, when you kind of had those conversations, was that freeing afterward?
11:02Were you was it almost like an exhalation of like, wow, I actually kind of finally got this out there.
11:06It was absolutely freeing in those moments.
11:09It's just talking about things makes it so much easier and smaller, you know, like same thing as therapy.
11:15Like you leave and you realize that your problems are hard, but they're you can overcome them and you can
11:19talk about them.
11:21It's been really hard to see it and to know that other people are going to see it.
11:25It doesn't feel less therapeutic.
11:27It kind of you start to get scared.
11:28I'm almost as excited for it to be out that people can can know.
11:33But it was it was important for me to to talk about because I just know that I cannot be
11:38alone in all those things.
11:40I hope I'm not alone in all those things.
11:42And I hope that when people see it, they that people reach out and share their own stories or are
11:47more inspired to talk about it themselves.
11:51It's a it's hard to see yourself like that.
11:54I think what was really hard to see was how consumed I was by all of it.
11:59And there's all these beautiful people and lovely things happening around me.
12:02And I can just see myself with this tunnel vision to this pain and anxiety that I was feeling.
12:07That part is hard, but I know that it'll I'll be better for having it out in the world.
12:11And I think other folks might might benefit from it, too.
12:13I think that last part is absolutely true.
12:16I think a lot of people are going to get a lot out of this.
12:19The new album is kind of coinciding with this documentary, which seems like it kind of happened by happenstance.
12:26Right. It just it wasn't like the documentary will lead into the album.
12:30Like, how did this all happen?
12:31Yeah, I think it really was just good timing.
12:35But I also think the documentary happened kind of up about up until the end of this really whirlwind tour
12:41experience.
12:41And then I had like six or seven months where I just wasn't really doing anything.
12:46And I was giving myself time to do as little career stuff as I could.
12:51I just wanted to have my own space for a second.
12:56And seeing the documentary during that time as it was edited and processed and kind of became what it is
13:01now,
13:01I think I started to see the shape of that story come into my songwriting as I started to make
13:06music again.
13:08And a lot of what happens in the documentary and what's talked about the documentary is further explored on the
13:12album.
13:13And so it became this really, really great vehicle for telling a story visually and then telling a story musically.
13:18And I think they coincide in a way that's symbiotic and really beautiful.
13:22Yeah, I was saying before this panel that like one of my favorite things about this documentary is it doesn't
13:27feel like promo.
13:28It's not like buy my new album.
13:30And I'm curious, Nick, like the decision to very kind of organically suggest that new music is coming and he's
13:38working on new music and but also not kind of make that a focal point, you know?
13:43Yeah, I mean, we had no idea that we would be capturing the process of making a new album.
13:50Like if anything, I thought the opposite would happen and that this would come out and then maybe like a
13:55year later or, you know, 18 months or two years later, an album would be out.
14:00And these two things would kind of exist as like very separate things.
14:04And that's not what happened.
14:06And I would have been so happy if all we got was like the incredible, crazy tour and stuff with,
14:12you know, Noah's family.
14:14I would have been like, wow, what an incredible film it already is.
14:16And then to, in addition to that, have some of the process of this next album is such a privilege.
14:24One thing, I mean, I actually have been wanting to ask you about this one, Noah.
14:30A place that is truly sacred for Noah is the studio for any artist.
14:35But I think for Noah in particular, because he's so focused and his artistic process is like it's so detailed.
14:45And so when it came time to film some of the things in the studio, there's a new song that
14:51Noah is writing and kind of doing the first drafts of.
14:58And in the studio, I was trying to be very careful to not disrupt your creative process.
15:02And I remember you were recording and you closed your eyes.
15:06And, you know, like those videos on the Internet where there's a cat and then you go around the corner
15:10and then you come back and the cat's closer.
15:12And it was like it was like that, like Noah was performing.
15:15He was like recording it and then he'd shut his eyes and then I kind of step closer with a
15:20camera.
15:20And then he closes eyes again and I get closer.
15:22And then at this certain point, like my camera's right here and he's got his eyes closed and then he
15:27opens them.
15:28And I was like, I was like, were you hoping I wasn't going to be there?
15:31Like, were you? Is this like your worst nightmare?
15:34What's that?
15:35Like, he's like, oh, didn't you leave?
15:37Didn't you leave? Exactly.
15:38And then he gives this like extraordinary, like vocal.
15:43Like it's, it's this incredible belt.
15:45You know, you've seen it and you guys will obviously see it soon.
15:48And and yeah, I mean, it was just it was just this incredible thing to capture.
15:53It was.
15:53Yeah, that was closer to the end, too.
15:55So I think I kind of gotten used to you slinking around.
16:00But you it's all trust.
16:02Like this experience required a lot of trust.
16:05I have a hard time, you know, letting people into my world.
16:08Sometimes I like to have my music be my music and then my life be my life.
16:11And it was hard to merge those two things.
16:13But you did an amazing job of making me feel safe, even though I knew eventually you'll be out in
16:18the world.
16:19But to make that process happen, like we had to establish a lot of trust.
16:22And I think that the music studio is a very sacred place for me.
16:27But you allowed me that space.
16:29You captured in a way that allowed me to kind of almost enhance the experience.
16:32And I was happy to have you in there to see that because it's a totally different world than what
16:36most people are used to seeing.
16:37It's me and doing shit like this or me on stage or me talking about my ass on social media.
16:42So it was it was really special to kind of share that moment with you.
16:47It's so funny you bring that up because like and I want to I want to clarify that like there
16:52are there's a lot in the documentary that's very funny, too.
16:55And like obviously anyone who's who's seen you perform knows that you're hilarious and you're self-deprecating.
17:01And like my one of my favorite moments, speaking of the kind of songwriting process and like you working through
17:06it,
17:06there's a scene where you're sitting on a toilet.
17:10And so he's sitting like the toilet seats down, but he's sitting on the toilet.
17:14He has a notepad and a pen out and he's just kind of staring at it for a couple seconds.
17:21And your camera lingers on it.
17:22And after a couple of seconds, he just kind of looks for the camera.
17:25He goes, stupid.
17:28Yeah, there's a lot of that.
17:29There's a lot of like kind of humor within like struggling to figure out what to write.
17:34Yeah, I think like one thing I've always thought about, like depression, anxiety and pressure, like really there they can
17:41kind of create like a superpower of like self-deprecation and humor that helps you deal with it.
17:47Like knowing my family, we've all struggled with mental health in our own ways.
17:50And like I think we're the funniest people.
17:52I think that comes from having empathy and having understanding of the world and seeing beauty maybe in moments.
17:59Those light moments you get are so valuable.
18:01I think that does come across in the documentary.
18:04But my sense of humor, I think, has always been stemmed from kind of having to suffer a little bit.
18:09Yeah.
18:09And just kind of trying to tell things how they are.
18:11At that moment, it was like 119 degrees in California.
18:14And I was sitting on the toilet, like writing this just horrible song and like the camera person was like
18:19staring at me and I was like, there's no way you like that.
18:24Like, just tell me it sucks.
18:25Like, help me out.
18:27What was it like?
18:28There are also interviews with just people in your hometown of talking about your hometown and talking about the way
18:34you grew up.
18:34Like, well, why was that important to you?
18:36I think what's really important about talking to people from Stratford, from the Upper Valley, is not just to give
18:42perspective on, you know, what life is like there and what it's like growing up in a small town, but
18:46also the way that that town has always kind of moved in the same way.
18:50And my career has been, obviously, it's brought more people there, but they're still living as people there.
18:55This is their home.
18:56And my favorite scene in the entire documentary is when Nick goes and asks all the different people in Stratford,
19:02if they listen to my music, they're like, not really.
19:05I love it.
19:06It's what I love about Vermont is that it represents this kind of safe space for me and this place
19:11that feels consistent with all the change in my life.
19:14And that was captured very well.
19:16Like, this is a place that's been around for hundreds of years.
19:18People will be there for hundreds of years.
19:20One indie folk singer-songwriter is going to change the whole architecture of the town.
19:23And I thought that was really important to include.
19:25There was one, like, teenager who was more psyched about the new Duncan than he could hear music.
19:29He's like, yeah, it's right there.
19:31Well, somebody goes, like, what's your favorite song?
19:32This little girl is like, my favorite Taylor Swift song is.
19:36Yeah.
19:37And then the follow-up question is, what's your favorite Noah Collins song?
19:40She's like, I don't know.
19:44Yeah.
19:45It's really cool.
19:46I think I'm always impressed by how natural people are on camera because it's always been really hard for me.
19:50But, like, my brother, my mom, like, my family were all, like, stars.
19:55Like, they come across so naturally.
19:56I think they were really able to express themselves as the people they are.
19:59And I think that was really, really helpful for making it feel like a really real documentary and, like, a
20:05real experience for the audience.
20:06Yeah.
20:07Nick, there are going to be – how many people are here are big Noah Collins fans?
20:12Okay.
20:13Yeah, a lot of people.
20:14I like some people.
20:14Surprising.
20:16A lot of super fans who have followed Noah's whole career are going to see this documentary.
20:22What do you hope that they get out of it?
20:25You know, it's such a good question.
20:30I kept thinking about this one because I was, like, what would I want – like, when somebody's, like, finished
20:37watching it, what would I want them to kind of go away and think or do?
20:40And I was, like, I feel like if people were to watch it and then leave and, like, call somebody
20:47that they love or text somebody that they love, like, if it was, I don't know, their parents, like, that
20:52to me.
20:53I feel like this documentary kind of, like, it kind of, like, hurdles towards that idea in this, like, in
20:58spoken and unspoken ways.
21:00And I think it would be that.
21:04Yeah.
21:05There's also this thing that Noah said when he was talking about The Great Divide, the song, this idea that
21:10it's never too late to mend something.
21:12And I think we see a lot of that in this film.
21:15I don't want to spoil it.
21:16But we see that process happening in real time in, like, kind of explicit ways and in subtle ways.
21:24And I think that idea is really powerful and important.
21:27And you don't really expect to see it.
21:29Like, it's not – I don't know if that's what people are expecting when they go into this.
21:34But to me, that would be a thing that I would be really, really happy if that's what happened after
21:40people saw it.
21:41Yeah.
21:42I think it's, like, just the approach towards something that you're afraid of is enough sometimes.
21:49There's no, like, resolution to every issue you have, but just poking it with a stick, you know?
21:55Well, that was my last question, actually, is, like, you're gearing up for album release, huge tour.
22:01It feels like through this process of this film, you've figured some things out and you've found some personal solutions.
22:09Like, how gratifying is that to kind of come away and, you know, not only watch the documentary, but be
22:14like, yeah, this was helpful.
22:17It's an amazing feeling.
22:19It's something that I was experiencing a lot privately in therapy in my life.
22:22And then to have it kind of happen in such a real way where I'm, like, literally sitting next to
22:27my mom, like, asking her for forgiveness for, like, exposing things about her life and my music and those conversations
22:34that I really might never have had.
22:36It was incredibly cathartic.
22:37Like, I feel like it allowed me to really go into my next, like, the writing process for my album
22:43in a way that felt more honest and felt less guarded.
22:45I think it's really opened up a lot of doors for not just my music and my career, but for
22:50the relationship I have with the people that are in the documentary in my life.
22:53And I don't know.
22:54It's felt like the dialogue has been so open since that.
22:58And especially with my dad, like, you know, we sat on the documentary and I was like, oh, my God,
23:03he's going to freak out.
23:04Like, he's such a major part.
23:05And he's like, love it, buddy.
23:06Like, that's all he said.
23:07I was like, oh, wow, okay.
23:08Like, I was expecting, like, a long conversation.
23:10He's like, I love it.
23:11Like, I look weird while I'm skiing, but that's it.
23:14And so it was amazing.
23:16I feel like my dad and I's relationship has never been better.
23:20Just, like, getting to hang out with him and kind of have cleared this air without having to, like, in
23:24a very toxic masculine way where, like, we still haven't really discussed it, but he saw it.
23:29I know he saw it.
23:30So it's like, I think we're good.
23:33So it's been really beautiful.
23:35I mean, my little brother's here, but I feel like, Simon, I feel like when we watched that as a
23:38family, it was, like, really – I feel like it brought us together in a new way.
23:42And I thought it was really special.
23:43I didn't know Simon was here.
23:44I'm, like, starstruck.
23:45I know, right?
23:47He's great in the documentary.
23:48There was a scene in the documentary that Simon, like, out of everything that was in there, it was a
23:53scene of – it was, like, a still shot of him just gulping.
23:56And he called it the gulp, and he was, like, you need to get rid of the gulp.
23:59That was his one note.
24:01It's still in there.
24:03I want to thank you guys for your time.
24:05This was great.
24:06And I really – I do truly, like, congratulate you because this is a really special project.
24:12Like I said at the top, there are a lot of artist documentaries.
24:15This one stands out.
24:17So big congrats to you, and thank you guys for coming through and having this conversation.
24:21Thank you so much for the questions and the thoughtful prompts, and thanks for giving us a chance to talk
24:27about it.
24:27And thank you guys all for being here as well.
24:29It really means a lot to us.
24:30So thank you.
24:32And I will say it is not – the release date is coming out on Netflix.
24:36The release date is not out yet, but it's being announced soon.
24:39Nice.
24:40Vague.
24:42Soon.
24:43Eventually.
24:44But I'm sure everybody here is going to check it out, and please take the time to do so.
24:48Cool.
24:49Thanks, guys.
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