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00:00Ciao a tutti amici di Bumavy Player, io sono Elisa e oggi ho il piacere, l'onore di avere
00:07con noi uno dei più grandi direttori della fotografia del cinema contemporaneo.
00:12Probabilmente molti di voi non lo conosceranno per nome ma per i suoi film, infatti pensiamo
00:19solo ad Espiazione, Anna Karenina, Animali Notturni che io penso sia il suo capolavoro,
00:25lasciatemelo dire. Quindi senza tanti indugi salutiamo Shemus McGarvey. Hi Shemus, how are you?
00:33I'm doing great Elisa, thank you for having me on the show. Oh it's a pleasure and as I said
00:40in my introduction, probably we tend to know the cinematographers by the movie rather than
00:51by your name. It's a sort of curse. What do you think about it?
00:58That's okay because you know I think that cinematography although it's fundamental in
01:05cinema there are many parts to making a film but it's a fundamental aspect of it but by the same
01:13token it it has to blend in with the film it has to tell a story gently evocatively but appropriately
01:23for each film and that's I think the what I love about cinematography in my job is that you know
01:31every film is different every script is different every every time I work with a new director I kind
01:37of become a different cinematographer so that's a really exciting part of my job because you know
01:43you're constantly changing and exploring new avenues and and uh yeah I think it's it's right that I mean
01:51there are some very famous ones like Roger Deakins and Darius Kanji and all the greats of of the past
01:57but I think it's um it's nice that we sort of take a we're in the shadows you know because
02:04we are on the set
02:05anyway we're in behind the camera and we're deep in the shadows and I like that uh kind of uh
02:11shadowy side of
02:13of things because you're not in the limelight like an actor uh and you're not in that spotlight you're uh
02:21you're
02:21behind the camera it's my natural habitat
02:26and also in the introduction I said that probably nocturnal animal is your masterpiece
02:32of course except for atonement uh well uh you know I I do love that film but I would I
02:39would
02:39counter that by saying it's actually um Tom Ford's masterpiece not mine but it's certainly one that I
02:46absolutely so excited to work on I mean I love Tom Ford as a designer but just as an artist
02:54across the
02:54board he's one of the best directors I've ever worked with and he's one of the nicest people
03:00I've ever worked with um it was just a pleasure from start to finish and it was a very fast
03:06shoot
03:07um very you know intense actually as you can imagine with the subject matter uh but Tom you know is
03:15used
03:15to working under stress to a deadline you know for in his fashion career I suppose so this is no
03:22different and he was created a wonderful temperature on set which allowed us all a kind of a creative
03:31freedom and for somebody who's the head of of uh you know a fashion house that bears his name
03:38he was actually very very welcoming to collaboration which is is fantastic when you
03:45have that as a cinematographer that you you can work with somebody who say who invites ideas and and
03:52also deflects ideas if you come up with something that it isn't doesn't feel appropriate but it's
03:58really nice when you actually feel part of a of a creative juggernaut of a creative team
04:04in talking about the importance of the collaboration between the cinematographer and the director
04:09looking back at your career I noticed how there's no movie that is not a must say from a visually
04:21point of view
04:22even an average movie like Fifty Shades of Grey it's beautiful to see from a visual point of view but
04:44the chemistry between you and Sam Taylor Johnson is fantastic
04:50well you know that came naturally because Sam and I have known each other for 30 years and we've worked
04:58together from her earliest you know not earliest but very early stills and installation work and film when she started
05:07moving into film and her installation work so you know we were always been great pals and went from the
05:16time when Anthony Minghella the great director Anthony Minghella
05:19suggested who suggested who suggested who suggested who suggested who suggested who suggested who suggested who suggested that she make
05:23a short film which was called Love You More with Andrea Riseborough and Harry Treadway that it was just after
05:35that she sort of took off and she's a great spirit to be around we get on so well because
05:40we almost think the same things at the same time
05:44and I think the same time and I think the same time and I think that she had a little
05:47bit of a hard time on that film because there was so many expectations from you know the fans of
05:54the book and from Erica E.L. James the writer was very present on set and was trying to honour
06:00her fans by making everything exactly as it was in the book of course Sam is an artist and had
06:08great notions about how to shift things into a more cinematic
06:12rather than a literary realm and that led to some fisticuffs and tensions on the set but we resolved it
06:24I mean that's the beauty of working on a film
06:27you're sort of working at headlong speed there's no stopping when an argument arrives in your face you have to
06:35deal with it you simply can't turn away and ignore it
06:38so it's a great life lesson as well as a filmmaking lesson is to you have to engage with somebody
06:44be diplomatic work through the issue and move forward because otherwise you're spending money that you don't have in terms
06:54of production time
06:55and now I know that you are working on a very special project about a character that we all know
07:05but I don't know if you could tell us anything about it
07:09well all I can tell you Lisa is that I am no longer working on it
07:15really no I was in America working on it it's a Marvel project it's the biggest one out there now
07:24it's about to it's going to be the first Marvel project that's that's going to hit the cinemas
07:33and after the COVID lockdown but I went to Los Angeles to prep the film in March and it got
07:41me in like really early under the wire
07:44and then it was lockdown the day I arrived literally hours after I landed in Los Angeles you couldn't leave
07:51or you couldn't come in
07:52and it was you know I was isolated there and so we prepped the film online for I was there
07:59for three months
08:00and finally I kind of managed to get back to Sweden and now Italy I live I live here in
08:06Italy in San Cassiano
08:08but it got to the point where they kept pushing the dates back and back and back
08:17and it was uh there were some visa issues with with what Trump was doing it was sort of suddenly
08:24getting
08:25tricky for me to get a visa so I and a couple of other little things uh and so I
08:32had to regretfully
08:33leave the project and I don't know but they haven't found another DP yet they will have maybe when this
08:39goes
08:39out but um there you go so I can't even talk about it I wouldn't be able to spill the
08:47beans
08:47anyway Lisa I would have been hired if I if I'd said anything about it so I'm being very cautious
08:53about even talking about the characters now okay but you can talk about the Avengers I can I can
09:05yeah how it was how how is difficult to work on a superhero movie
09:12well you know it's it's very different like I I sort of call it cinematographic pilates because
09:20you're exercising different parts of you I don't do pilates living the state of me but but um yeah
09:28you're exercising a different type of cinematographic skill in in on it but it was really interesting
09:37firstly it was on a huge scale as you can imagine so that's pretty daunting and terrifying as a
09:45cinematographer when you're going into big big stages that have massive sets which have the biggest stars
09:52in the world all there um kind of that you you have to sort of like them all well and
10:00and the there's a
10:02huge responsibility in terms of the money spent each day so that that it was something that I find
10:10challenging I hadn't done anything of that scale before I think it was like maybe 180 million or 200
10:16million dollars at that time it was terrifying but it was a it was a wild ride I've got to
10:23say and I was
10:24very supported by uh firstly our director Joss Whedon who I've just been working with doing a tv series called
10:31the nevers um but also by a visual effects supervisor called Yannick Sirs so he said look just don't like
10:41look like a rabbit caught in the headlights when because I'll sort of fill you in on stuff you know
10:49after the meeting or after we talk about it so just nod and go along with it and then we'll
10:53work it out
10:54together so he was tremendously helpful to me uh to fill in the gaps in my knowledge in terms of
11:01the extent of the visual effects and the pre-visualizations and all the new techniques that we used
11:08in the Avengers in fact it was one of the first films shot on the Alexa camera in fact we
11:15shot on
11:16Alexa number two um out of the factory so that was exciting for me to learn about digital
11:24and you know certain regrets about how I shot it because I didn't know it well enough
11:29I like to dance between celluloid and digital they both have separate and distinct attributes
11:39What I liked about your cinematography in Avengers is all the time it looks like
11:45a theatrical stage in a way and I think it's it's your it's your style I mean and I think
11:53about
11:53Anna Karenina and it's the first time that I said this is Seamus McGarvey I can't recognize it
12:01It's probably a bad thing because I think that the producers uh initially reacted badly to that style
12:08which was something that we and Joss really wanted because it was unexpected it wasn't cartoonish
12:15and I think the Marvel sort of uh people have gone back to a much more you know over stylized
12:23I feel uh
12:24style and we wanted something that that had proscenium and had these extraordinary like scenes to look at
12:32and extraordinary characters in the midst of it but uh one that had an apparent naturalism that we didn't
12:40want any kind of uh slight of hand or eye or you know it was it there was no sort
12:47of photographic bombast
12:50I mean there were big moments in the film explosive moments and and dynamic traveling moments that where we
12:57had helicopters and all sorts of things flying around but the general overall feel I think Joss really
13:05wanted it to have this sort of authenticity that it would the these characters although they're superheroes
13:11they could do all these crazy things that they're somehow fallible and and almost like human-esque
13:20uh attributes so that was something that he was really playing with to to lend them a kind of
13:26a believability to an audience that hey you know I could do that so uh I don't know I think
13:33it works
13:34partly but having said that I think that uh one of the notes we got at the start of the
13:42film you know
13:42after the rushes kept coming in was like the producer whispered in my ear marvel think that
13:48this is looking a bit like star trek and not in a good way and I was like oh christ
13:53well we better do
13:54something a bit more ultra and ramped up um now we are all obsessed uh with uh uh Hamilton I
14:06don't know
14:06if you already watched it on Disney plus Hamilton I haven't seen it I don't have a facility here to
14:14to watch it but oh okay anyway um I just linked the fact that you walked about on a musical
14:24the greatest showman which are the differences working on the musical uh movie based on a famous
14:31novel which are the differences it is it is different um and it doesn't have to be a particular
14:39style for a musical but on the greatest showman um I think Michael Gracie and Hugh Jackman really wanted
14:49a sense of of joyfulness and and unabashed spectacle and just like audiences clapping and wanted the
14:59songs to have an uplifting spirit to them and that's something I think that when the film first came out
15:05critics frowned upon it because they thought well it's just like popcorn uh cinema or popcorn
15:12entertainment which which actually is paradoxically is its charm it's very charming which meant that it
15:20stayed in cinemas for over a year actually but we shot it in a very different way than I'm used
15:26to
15:26shooting drama it was sort of like a mixture of the two and Hugh Jackman was very closely involved also
15:33uh in in all those creative decisions he's very hands-on and wonderful man to work with
15:40uh but it was that was probably the most fun I've ever had on a film because every day
15:47we you know we had great stuff going on there was like songs to and it reminded me of my
15:52old days on a
15:53music video where we would some we would shoot in a very precise way for certain things but then we
15:59would
15:59have the choreography all laid out and we just have to shoot it almost like a Bollywood musical like a
16:06shot
16:07with one camera and then two cameras cross shooting to capture like sort of accidental details so that
16:15was just fun because you really caught stuff and it gave it a particular energy I think that sort of
16:21haphazardness that uh that I really love about the film and especially when you see it all with the sound
16:27you see it in the cinema with all the surrounds on and my family although my son knows all the
16:33songs and
16:34even has a little Hugh Jackman suit like the greatest showman outfit that his grandmother made for him
16:41really yeah in fact Hugh invited us when he played at Wembley Stadium and he got us front row seats
16:51and uh it was poor little Ossian's my boy he was there and suddenly at one point the the spotlight
16:59came on to
16:59Ossian and Hugh said that little man has is the best dressed man in this in Wembley Stadium in the
17:07best dressed man in the in the hall and Puri Ossian was almost in tears but it was he'll never
17:14forget it
17:15as long as he lives I was talking to Dario Marianelli some weeks ago and I asked him among all
17:23of these
17:24soundtracks which is the one that he most um proud of so I'm gonna ask you the same question
17:33among among all of your cinematography which is the one that you are most proud of
17:42oh of of his work or no yours Dario said Atonement yes I was gonna say the question because I
17:52love I love his
17:53work on that it's so metronomic and precise and it was yeah it was written alongside our action like
18:01the the movement happened to his temporary tracks that ended up in the movie so the there's a synthesis
18:08between sound and image that doesn't really happen very often so I love that but in my own work oh
18:16my god
18:16I mean it's there are some favorites I have uh like a film that Tim Roth directed many of your
18:26viewers
18:26may not have seen it called The War Zone which I love very much um it's very heavy uh subject
18:34matter but
18:35he was great to work with and it's one that I'm very proud of um I mean I I've got
18:41a fondness for
18:42atonement also but nocturnal animals I love yeah I agree you know you asked me that question but
18:52there's one that nobody will have seen and that's a little short film that was that was one of the
18:58first things ever shot called Flying Saucer Rock and Roll Flying Saucer Rock and Roll and it's sort of a
19:04spoof
19:05black and white b-movie starring Artil O'Hanlon and uh made it in my hometown of Armaa Northern Ireland
19:13and it's just got a certain b-movie charm that that I really love and it's only like 10 minutes
19:20long but
19:20it it I'm shot on 35 on black and white and it's all day from night and rear projection and
19:27all this stuff
19:28that you have in the in these 50s movies is probably one of my favorites weirdly we'll check on it
19:36maybe 30 years ago or more yeah 32 years ago uh talking about Ireland I've just finished to read
19:48Normal People by Salirone have you watched the tv series I have in fact just the other day
19:56I interviewed uh the great dp Susie Lavelle who's also Irish and uh she shot it so beautifully I saw
20:06all
20:06the 12 episodes she shot six of them and a woman called Katie McCullough shot the other six
20:12um but I just think extraordinary work so it was for American Cinematographer magazine so they're called
20:19uh in conversations uh so you can you can look them up on the American Cinematographer and there's a nice
20:26talk with her she's so wonderful I've known her for years but beautiful job again that thing about
20:34an apparently naturalistic approach which was so necessary for the intimacy of that to to kind of build
20:44and and cook and I think it just has a real fragility and and delicate touch the cinema um I
20:54I thought it
20:55was amazing because with something that was so uh you know vivid erotically and and explicit and
21:03actually they they just did it in such an intimate way where it was about the looks and the burgeoning
21:08love and then the the jealousies and the split and all the things that you know we all know in
21:14life and
21:14love they were so beautifully depicted with such a an apparently innocent eye but of course you know
21:22you know in Lenny Abraham's uh films Abrahamson's films um they're they're told with such a true
21:30gaze towards the human condition uh and I thought that she was hand in hand with him and in telling
21:38that story and bringing that narrative because I read the book before and loved it and then I thought
21:45wow what a movie this is going to make I think they're making her next book into a movie now
21:49too
21:50okay talking about Tuscany the last time that we met in 2018 oh my god two years ago um you
21:59took you
21:59told me that you were working on Pinocchio I don't know about the movie what's going on with the movie
22:05but
22:07I was so excited because you live in Tuscany you know the landscape and I was so excited to know
22:14how
22:14you can translate um all this landscape into cinematography but well we were we had found all
22:22the locations we were going to shoot in Montepulciano we were going to shoot all around this area I mean
22:28I could have driven to work every day it was fantastic we also had started to build like massive
22:35sets in Shepperton studios so there was a significant amount of money had already been spent in the film
22:41and then there was something happened I think I can't really go into it but there was something
22:48personal happened with the director that his family I don't know it anyway it got put on hold and then
22:55that was that and the film didn't happen they were trying to make a version of it recently with
23:02Robert Zemeckis I think yeah in an entirely different way possibly in a more sort of polar express
23:09type of stylization where what we were going to do was very different but um yeah I mean that that
23:18happens it has happened quite frequently in the last couple of years where projects have ramped up and
23:24then just suddenly evaporated I think there's you could tell that there were sort of tremors financial
23:31tremors happening across the board anyway in the movie industry so that never happened I mean once you got
23:38a call to shoot a movie you almost knew you were going to do it but it's this there's a
23:43lot of
23:44trepidation now in in the financial world with insurances and all that stuff so it's it's increasingly
23:51difficult for producers to get films made um and COVID-19 does not help that
23:59no I mean I was so looking forward to shooting my first movie in Italy but I have a feeling
24:08uh
24:09something might come up where really you know I may do something I can't tell you about it but I
24:14there may be something in the near future we'll see we'll see fingers crossed fingers crossed
24:19yes indeed and toes and legs all of the fingers that we have
24:30the last two questions the one is um it's one that I'm a personal attached to are you going to
24:39work
24:39with Joe Wright again I hope so I hope so yes he Joe has uh asked me to work with
24:48him again um which I'm
24:49really really happy about because we've known each other since we were well since I didn't know what
24:56end of a camera to look through and we we sort of worked together in a in a music video
25:01company and
25:02and we sort of came up through the right anyway it was having done like six movies with him and
25:10all the Chanel commercials and all that stuff and short films and blah blah that we had such a rapport
25:18and then you know as directors do they decide right I'm gonna change it up a bit and so he
25:24he worked on
25:25two movies with the great Bruno Delbonnel so I I joke about it I said he ran off with a
25:31Frenchman
25:31but uh I was I was very kind of like hurt that I wasn't well not just a slightly jealous
25:40because I
25:41enjoy working with Joe so much I think he's a genius and he's just a friend a very close friend
25:48so you know I thought oh well maybe that's the end of a you know a working relationship we'll just
25:54be
25:54pals uh because as you know he he loves Tuscany as well he's here a lot but um
26:01um uh he he has asked me back again so I'm really really happy again fingers crossed
26:11let's see let's see because a lot of people a lot of my friends watched Atonement
26:19earlier and they say oh my god I love this movie I've never watched this movie before
26:25and they loved the Dunkirk scene of course and probably the only one who loved more the library
26:34scene oh yeah the contrast between light and darkness is amazing yeah I prefer it too because
26:43you know I can't look at that big scene on the beach because it was so much planning it I
26:49get so nervous
26:49watching it every time because it's terrifying of the possibility that it could all go terribly wrong
26:57whereas the library scene had real I think you know as you say light and dark it it had uh
27:05storyboarding planned out very carefully it has great performances it's absolutely electric erotically and uh
27:13you know it's it's it's a great moment in in the film and the last question um when you decide
27:22to become
27:23a cinematographer when well I suppose I kind of knew I wanted to be a photographer I when I was
27:34growing up in
27:35in Ireland in Northern Ireland in Armagh I had a dark room and I you know I was looking at
27:40my town through a lens and
27:43translating the the rail through a lens and processing it in the in the in the developer in my little
27:51dark
27:52room and that although I didn't realize that at the time was me becoming a cinematographer because it was
27:58seeing how a lens and the choice of a camera position and light itself changes the real world
28:06and renders it in a more poetic way so I didn't know it at the time because I didn't know
28:12until I went to
28:12film school that I wanted to be a cinematographer I just thought oh the film school does photography on
28:18film but then quickly I got the bug and I I realized wow camera movement time
28:26it's not still it's it's like traveling through it's architectural it's it's like dance it's it's a
28:35light it's playing with time itself so all those things that are intrinsic to cinema that I just
28:41got thought well this is the most magical medium in art uh and that's I think when I decided was
28:48when
28:49I went along I was only 17 when I went there and you know I left college when I was
28:5421 but um
28:56those years were fundamental and steering me towards uh being a cinematographer it just I've never looked
29:03back I just uh love watching movies I I love talking about them I love being surprised by filmmakers work
29:14you know films like Parasite last year it just blew me away I just loved it so much and uh
29:21I just thought the
29:22the potential of cinema to develop and to explore new ideas and to change as we move forward
29:30technically but in terms of ideas and culturally how it can reflect us as human beings that gives
29:38me the goose pimples on my arm you can probably see them
29:45I thank you so much for this interview it's always a pleasure
29:53it's great to see you Lisa and uh thank you for inviting me on this it's a pleasure
29:58it's a pleasure thank you so much have a nice day they're in Toscana
30:05arrivederci ciao ciao
30:07ciao ciao
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