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00:00MUSIC
00:09Inside the secret world of the surveillance industry...
00:18You can intercept the communication of your targets,
00:24send fake short messages.
00:28Our undercover reporter exposes the spy merchants
00:31willing to sell powerful eavesdropping equipment
00:34to anyone willing to pay.
00:46Europe's most advanced producers of spyware
00:48explain how they circumvent international sanctions with ease.
00:52First, we are OK with Iran.
00:57Of course, it's subject to export restriction.
00:59But this is something that we can manage.
01:02We hear of the damage that surveillance technology
01:04can do to democracy.
01:13And we expose the methods used to cover their tracks.
01:18You can sell to your shop money.
01:21No parameter. No any trend.
01:23We wipe everything.
01:24We wipe everything.
01:25There will be no logo.
01:27Even use of fake email account.
01:30How many other Italian sizes sported things in your head?
01:35Let's see.
01:36It's great.
01:38Lots.
01:40These are the deals putting our privacy at risk.
01:44I find it unacceptable.
01:46I would like to see transparency in this very, very dark
01:50and dangerous market.
01:52The safeguards protecting our private life are disappearing.
01:56These are the nuclear weapons of the 21st century.
02:00The surveillance state is the asset that eats out democracy from within.
02:04The surveillance state.
02:05Inside the spyware game.
02:07Big money.
02:09Dirty tricks.
02:11And a legal structure unable to control who is spying on you.
02:25Edward Snowden, the defence contractor, leaked information about US surveillance methods.
02:30They had charged him in the US courts.
02:32With espionage, theft and conversion of government property.
02:36Edward Snowden blew the whistle on a secret programme of mass surveillance carried out by the United States government and
02:43its allies.
02:44You ultimately have to make a choice about what do you have a greater commitment to, the law or to
02:50justice.
02:51Al Jazeera's investigative unit enters this hidden world where companies make and sell equipment to intelligence and law enforcement agencies.
03:00Talk of Russian hacking, of Democratic Party emails.
03:03Released by WikiLeaks.
03:05Tended to interfere with the US election process.
03:08It's a global multi-million dollar industry whose products can capture your life on your phone, tablet and computer.
03:16One that operates with few controls and little political oversight.
03:25Even as a politician who is responsible for human rights, foreign policy, specifically export controls, it is difficult for me
03:33to know how big this market is.
03:35These companies operate in the dark.
03:38When these technologies end up in the wrong hands, they end up with agencies which have a very proven and
03:45bloody history of oppression and human rights abuse.
03:48For many of the companies in the high tech arena, they will sell their surveillance wares to anybody who wants
03:55to buy them.
03:56It doesn't matter what the morality or the ethics are.
03:59I have a service. I have surveillance. I can sell it to the highest bidder.
04:05It doesn't matter.
04:07Who cares?
04:22We wanted to find out how easy it is to break the rules intended to control the sale of spyware.
04:29It's a world closed to outsiders, where manufacturers mingle with intelligence officers and arms dealers.
04:38So we found an insider, a man prepared to approach spyware companies he's worked with for years, using that trust
04:47to get to the truth.
04:54We agreed to protect his identity and refer to him simply as James.
04:59I think people would be really shocked to see how some of these surveillance companies operate.
05:04For some of them, their only concern is money.
05:07They really have no interest in how this equipment is used.
05:11That's why I'm doing this.
05:15I want people to be able to see that world. My world.
05:20Posing as a middle man, James planned to take three deals to the market for clients that shouldn't be able
05:27to buy mass surveillance equipment.
05:30The first client we would propose is the government of South Sudan.
05:47The second client would be the security services of the Islamic Republic of Iran.
05:53Currently under European Union sanctions, the sale of surveillance equipment to Iran is prohibited by law.
06:02Lastly, could James obtain restricted surveillance equipment without telling the company who the client was?
06:10Any company agreeing to this deal wouldn't know if he was buying on behalf of a criminal gang or a
06:15terrorist organisation.
06:29The first product James would try to buy for his clients is an interception device called an IMSI catcher.
06:50Some of the most intrusive tools in the surveillance industry's locker are small and mobile.
07:02An IMSI catcher is a portable surveillance device that can be driven to anywhere the target is. Some are as
07:08small as a suitcase.
07:09You could be sat at home drinking coffee or reading paper.
07:14And as soon as the IMSI catcher is turned on, it tricks your phone and potentially all the other phones
07:19in the area into locking onto its system.
07:28Once that's done, the operator can track your movements, intercept your messages and your phone calls, even send you fake
07:34messages from your friends.
07:36These are not designed to be the simple bugs that you stick under the table to record a conversation.
07:42These are powerful devices which can intercept, record and otherwise interfere with people's communications.
08:05But where could our undercover reporter find such a device?
08:09He began his search in Mexico at a conference for the world's surveillance industry.
08:16James used his contacts to set up a meeting with Marco Braccioli,
08:20Senior Vice President of the Italian surveillance firm Aria, a big player with several government contracts.
08:28Would he sell us IMSI catchers for use in South Sudan?
08:35How does it work with the IMSI's?
08:37I've heard there's a lot of grey market activity.
08:41There are some people that are trying to sell in the grey market.
08:48How? Where do they get that from?
08:51Ukraine and Russia.
08:53What about your IMSI's? Are these your own products?
08:57We design the IMSI and we make them up to use in Turkey.
09:03Great. Let's go grab some lunch.
09:07While they walked, Marco bragged about having a close relationship with the Italian government,
09:12which he said helped smooth the export process.
09:16If there is a real need, I can ask informally.
09:23Our authorities is before to waste time and waste money and waste.
09:30Is this possible or not?
09:37We sell trust. We don't sell rubbish. First of all, we sell trust.
09:46So, you cannot work at the border of the woods, but inside...
09:59For Marco to sell the IMSI catcher legally, he needs a government-authorised export licence
10:05and an end-user certificate showing where the technology is headed.
10:13Marco explained that when it's a sensitive destination, like South Sudan,
10:17the industry sometimes sends the equipment via another country.
10:22So, how can I sell a solution? Your solution to South Sudan, for example?
10:31If I have an end-user statement signed in Tanzania,
10:38and then Tanzania give as a gift this system to South Sudan,
10:46it's something that I can't control the country.
10:51I heard this many times. This is common, right? That it can work like this.
10:57It's not my method.
11:01A suggestion for how to get around the regulations,
11:05and Marco was interested in dealing with our South Sudan clients.
11:12A month later, James was invited to area's headquarters
11:16for a demonstration of the IMSI catcher.
11:25The plan is we do a tour of the building,
11:28to present what can be presented to the customer when they come.
11:36That's the big one.
11:37This is the case size.
11:39This is the frequencies.
11:40This is one three-directional antenna.
11:44You can intercept the communication of your targets.
11:49or even control the communications,
11:52meaning that you can send fake short messages.
11:57After the demonstration,
11:59the sales manager, Luco Di Musio, wanted to talk business.
12:03He explained that officially selling IMSI catchers
12:06to a country like South Sudan from Italy
12:08could be a long process.
12:10In order to know if you can ask for something in a place,
12:14you have to first get a purchase order.
12:17You can't apply for an export license without having a purchase order.
12:22That's a big, big problem, huh?
12:24It is. That's why I mention it, because this is the problem we are facing.
12:29But our undercover reporter suggested an alternative.
12:33Use a third country to avoid the Italian export process.
12:37What I can do, what we can consider, is to go through our Turkish partner.
12:46Okay?
12:47And see if they can support you through Dubai.
12:52Okay?
12:53Avoiding some of these problems.
12:58While we waited for Aria's answer,
13:00James moved on to our next client, Iran, and our second product.
13:05This equipment could monitor the internet traffic of an entire country.
13:11In the industry, this technology is known as an IP intercept system.
13:15It constantly monitors the data being sent over the internet.
13:19It can record who is visiting certain websites,
13:21who is using certain keywords.
13:23It can gather all your internet history.
13:26But it's a huge project.
13:28In order to capture the data,
13:29you must physically insert monitoring devices into the telecommunications infrastructure.
13:34Once the system is complete, an entire nation's internet traffic can be monitored and analyzed.
13:42So would any company be willing to sell a system like this to our second client, Iran,
13:47despite the European Union sanctions?
13:52Fabio Romani is the chief executive officer of Italian company IPS.
13:57He explained that supplying IP intercept systems covertly is difficult.
14:03I tell you something, IP intercepts is not the easiest way,
14:08I mean it's not the easiest product to sell and run away.
14:13But that's the requirement.
14:15You will get burned.
14:16You will get burned.
14:19Because it's a long project.
14:21It's not something that you ship, you train, you leave the country.
14:34Despite these warnings, when James raised the prospect of a deal to sell intercept systems to Iran,
14:40Fabio seemed tempted.
14:42Iran is robbing.
14:43Iran is robbing now.
14:45Could be open.
14:47Are you serious?
14:49Iran now.
14:52Okay, can you confirm this for me please?
14:55I know money talks in this industry.
14:58But I was surprised to hear them say they'll consider a deal in Iran.
15:02There are still sanctions in place.
15:04And I can't think of a way they're going to be able to get this deal done legally.
15:25ABAS HAKIM ZADEH knows about Iran's surveillance regime.
15:30His involvement in student protests during elections in 2009,
15:34brought him to the attention of the then government of Mahmoud Ahmadinejad.
15:38He was targeted as someone to watch.
15:41I was surprised that Iran's security system has been found on technologies.
15:50They can use the email to people.
15:54They can use the mobile phones as a microphone.
15:58They can use the phone.
15:59They can use the phone.
15:59The ones who are in the house were able to collect them.
16:03And they can record them.
16:06With his communications as evidence, the Iranian authorities arrested Abbas.
16:12There was a small house,
16:14and a glass of water.
16:16There was a glass of water with different windows.
16:17It was a wall.
16:23I took a small house in the house.
16:25For two or three hours, I took a seat for 2-3 hours.
16:28I took a seat and took a seat in the seat, in the back, in the back.
16:39Well, anyone who has looked at Iran, the young population can understand
16:44the enormous pressure and fear that they live under in a country
16:48where surveillance and restrictions and monitoring are not only systematic
16:53but the consequences of being caught speaking your mind can be death.
17:22James was invited to the IPS headquarters near Rome.
17:30Sales manager Ugo Santillo was there to meet him.
17:35First, as I wrote to you, we are OK with Iran.
17:41OK.
17:41Yeah.
17:42These, for all, are virgin countries and virgin customers.
17:48But Ugo appears to know that IP intercept systems cannot currently be legally sold to Iran from Italy.
17:55We're talking about IP interception for Iran.
17:57OK.
17:58Now we are talking about something that should be classified, OK?
18:04So, in this way, of course, it's subject to export restriction.
18:09But this is something that we can manage.
18:11Fortunately, we have a sister company, Lazy.
18:14So, we can manage to...
18:17I mean, at the end of the day, we are supplying just off-the-shelf hardware with some software.
18:23OK.
18:23No, no, no.
18:25By using IPS's sister company, RACI,
18:29Hugo could describe the product as a simple traffic management system on the export paperwork
18:35that avoids strict surveillance equipment regulations
18:38and circumvents international sanctions on Iran.
18:42RACI has some software for analytics or statistics
18:48to traffic congestion.
18:49This solution is purely civilian and it's not subject to any investigation.
18:54The hardware is the same.
18:57The software is completely different, of course.
19:01Basically, through RACI and the road of civil hardware and software,
19:06we can basically sell anywhere?
19:08Is this correct?
19:10Yeah.
19:10But this must be a very, very strong, strong relation with a customer.
19:18Hugo said that they'd done this before.
19:21We sell only this.
19:23And we have at least, I think, 20 countries in the world.
19:26So far, nothing happens because we are very, let's say, conservative and prudent to manage this thing.
19:38There are huge rewards for a contract of this size.
19:42Something that can cost up to 20 million.
19:44Are you talking euros or US?
19:46Euro.
19:48In four months from payment, they had the system.
19:51They would have the system.
19:52Running?
19:52Right.
19:55With the agreement in place, he suggested that all communication should be very discreet.
20:03Everything will be in a white label.
20:06I mean, all the documents that we will provide them, would be, I mean, talking about interception.
20:13We use, let's say, dummy words, flowers instead of IP, but there will be no logo.
20:21The company will be called the supplier, and the customer will be the client.
20:26We can even use a fake dummy email account.
20:30And we throw everything into this account?
20:33Yeah.
20:33Buddy at gmail.com means Google from IPS.
20:40As we left, Fabio Romani, the chief executive officer of IPS, offered his reassurances that the company knew how to
20:48handle deals like this.
20:51How was the discussion?
20:53Very good, very good.
20:55I think we made a massive step forward.
20:57And next, we'll be a meeting with the end user.
21:00Don't be worried about the export license.
21:03Don't be worried about this.
21:04It's something that we usually manage.
21:06Your eyes will not be good.
21:09I will take care of you, sir.
21:12The footage that I've just seen confirms my concern about the actual practices that are going on that are not
21:20in line with how EU regulations function today.
21:24Some suppliers won't respect restrictions, but this is among the most blatant and explicit references to circumventing the law, and
21:35I think that that is disturbing.
21:37The company will be called the supplier.
21:40We sell only this, and we have at least, I think, 20 countries in the world.
21:44He won't get any license to ship to Iran.
21:47They are circumventing the regulation on 428 on well-used items.
21:53They will be subject to violation of money laundering, because they submit a crime, they make a profit, and then
22:00it will be minimum of five to ten years.
22:05James had agreed our first deal, an illegal plan to sell an IP intercept system to Iran for up to
22:1320 million euros.
22:15We asked IPS and RACI for a response to the evidence that they were prepared to break the law by
22:21shipping to Iran in this way.
22:24The RACI group said that they operate with full respect of the regulations.
22:29They also stated that they had been aware of the identity of Al Desira's undercover reporter.
22:34They had only met him because they believed he might be working for a competitor.
22:39They added, we had no intention of completing this or any deal with the individual our staff met with.
22:47Any deal that we may have discussed with him would have been dependent on obtaining full legal authorization from the
22:54authorities.
22:59In part two, our undercover reporter delves deeper into the world of illegal surveillance sales.
23:05We revealed those prepared to sell to war zones in partnership with their intelligence service.
23:11Did you check with the authorities and did they give you the green light?
23:15No, nothing on paper.
23:19Who is that from in Turkey?
23:21My T is called Central Intelligence Agency.
23:26And those who don't care if they sell powerful spyware to criminals or a terrorist organization.
23:38It doesn't matter what the morality or the ethics are.
23:41As long as I don't get caught, I'll sell it.
23:44There's simply a demand, we can supply the demand.
23:47It's simple economics.
24:23Al Jazeera's investigative unit has used an insider to infiltrate the secret world of the surveillance industry.
24:30Exposing the deals that are putting our private communications at risk.
24:36James has already negotiated a deal to buy sophisticated monitoring equipment for Iran with Hugo Santillo from IPS.
24:45It's a deal that would breach international sanctions.
24:48Something that can cost up to 20 million.
24:51And for months from payment they will have the system.
24:54Some suppliers won't respect restrictions.
24:57But this is among the most blatant and explicit references to circumventing the law and I think that that is
25:05disturbing.
25:08Later, our undercover reporter reveals the company willing to sell sophisticated surveillance equipment to anyone.
25:16Or maybe we can sell to your shell company and then you do a business with the end user.
25:22Yeah, but you don't need an export certificate for that?
25:25Normally no.
25:27Because normally we will not say this is an image catcher.
25:30We say this is a Wi-Fi router.
25:37First, James follows up on proposals to supply surveillance equipment to South Sudan.
25:42He travelled to Rome to meet again with area vice president Marco Braccioli.
25:52He was aware of the reputation of IPS and their sales manager, Hugo Santillo.
26:00This is not something that he heard with me, but the nickname of Hugo in the customers of the Arabic
26:10world is the Italian Pimp.
26:12And you know this.
26:18The trouble of IPS is that they sold in particular countries with an export license without regulation.
26:34So anything that's encrypt or decrypt something, have to be sold without these documents.
26:45Into where?
26:48In places in which there are dictates.
27:01But in the surveillance world it's not just IPS that may have profited from deals with dictators.
27:11The Arab Spring uprisings demonstrated the power of popular protest.
27:15But it was also a gold rush for the surveillance industry.
27:18The region's leaders raced to crack down on the protest organizers.
27:24I found that activists, students, journalists, opposition figures in North Africa and the Middle East were targeted.
27:31And sometimes imprisoned as a result of these systems coming from Europe.
27:36And I found that unacceptable then, I find it unacceptable today.
27:39We had actual victims coming from Libya, from Syria, who had survived torture, detention and saying this was the cause
27:48of my arrest.
27:48They wouldn't have identified me, they wouldn't have tortured me if they hadn't been able to monitor my communications.
28:06Aware of growing dissent, Bashar al-Assad, the Syrian president, sought to improve his country's surveillance capabilities in 2009.
28:15It was our Italian company, Aria, that stepped in to help.
28:23The project in Syria was a project for a system of intercepting that could cover the entire country.
28:41This man was employed by Aria to work on the contract.
28:46He'd been told the 13 million euro system was a civil project bought to assist in criminal investigations.
28:53But on a trip to Damascus, he realized the targets of the surveillance technology were Assad's political opponents.
29:00He realized that in the past, there were a few other opponents
29:00and it was the only two other people who took place in Syria.
29:23He was the only one of the people that were involved in Syria.
29:28They were to confront this user-in-law to the trial.
29:30absolutely need to understand who could be those who would have begun to create the first
29:37disorders and the first revolts against the regime. And so they needed a system that
29:46would not serve to find criminals, but rather to dissident politicians. It's like going
29:53to buy a kitchen towel and find someone who tells you that you are selling a gun, a
29:59gun. It's completely different. He informed Area's management but he says he was told the company
30:07wasn't responsible for how the system would be used. When you create a system of this kind
30:15you can't think about selling it without any management from an ethical point of view of the thing.
30:27He took his evidence to the media, public protests followed, and Area withdrew from the project. At the time the
30:35company claimed that they had a valid export license to supply Syria and that they had no desire to be
30:41accomplices to repression.
30:45Throughout history corporations and individuals have profited from war. The surveillance
30:51industry is really just carrying on a tradition there.
30:54In December 2016, Area's activities in Syria caught up with them. Italian authorities raided their Milan headquarters.
31:04Company executives were accused of falsifying the export documents relating to the Syrian deal.
31:11And nearly eight million euros that the company had received from the Syrian authorities were seized.
31:18When James next met Area's Vice President Marco Braccioli to discuss our South Sudan deal, he appeared untroubled by the
31:26ongoing investigation.
31:31So they are investigating all the Italian market around some exportation, some exports in the last five years.
31:44So we are just the first of the list because Area starts with up.
31:51He believed that the investigation would expose other companies as well as Area.
31:58But if you go back in the five years, how many other Italians have exported in, let me say, deep
32:07grey countries? Lots.
32:11Yes.
32:13Although willing to supply South Sudan client, Marco warned that obtaining an Italian export license could now take time.
32:21But he had a solution. James could buy the IMZI catchers directly from their manufacturer in Turkey.
32:28He even made the introductions.
32:30Alfred, it's Marco from Area. How are you? Ciao, ciao. Good, good, good.
32:37Listen to me.
32:39He believed a Turkish export license would be obtained more quickly.
32:44So, consider that it's too difficult for me to manage these things from Italy.
32:50So the idea is that you can meet him.
33:08Since 2013, tribal and political conflict in South Sudan has led to the deaths of tens of thousands of civilians.
33:17The government has been accused of human rights atrocities.
33:21The violence has resulted in European Union sanctions and calls for an international arms embargo.
33:34Pagan Amom fled the country after being targeted by surveillance equipment bought by the government.
33:42In 2013, he was a senior member of the leadership, before disagreements with the president led to him being arrested
33:49and falsely accused of plotting a coup.
33:52The government, when they interrogated me and told me that they have recordings of my telephone conversations,
34:01that would incriminate me and that they were going to charge me with treason, punishable by death.
34:08Of course I could not believe it, but I was in a shock.
34:12Pagan fears the impact that the further supply of surveillance equipment will have on his country.
34:18The government, with that surveillance, has reduced the political space for our citizens to speak.
34:29The right of freedom of speech has been curtailed, even to speak in private.
34:46A few weeks later, Alper Toussaint, the founder of Turkish company BTT, agreed to meet our reporter in Milan.
34:53It would finally conclude our deal to supply South Sudan's military with IMSI catchers.
35:03Hi, how are you?
35:04Merhaba, good to see you.
35:09I don't know if you've ever done business with the South Sudanese.
35:12Between us, they're military people, intelligence people.
35:17Are they going to use it in the country or do they want to use it on the borders against
35:21other neighbors?
35:23Those are the scenarios that we have to go through.
35:27Export? You mentioned it's not a problem.
35:29But did you check with the authorities and did they give you the green light?
35:33Probably. Nothing on paper.
35:37Who is that from in Turkey?
35:39My IT is called Central Intelligence Agency.
35:45Although he claimed to have permission from Turkish intelligence, Alper appeared keen to disguise the true nature of the IMSI
35:52catcher.
35:53Anything which is considered to be dual use, which is our case, because my equipment is actually a telecommunication equipment.
36:01I don't want to mention the software inside, but actually it's a box where you can make calls through it.
36:07Why don't you want to mention the software inside? What's the problem with that?
36:11Then I need to go a longer procedure.
36:16I say this is dual use telecom equipment.
36:20And most of the time, it is a telecom testing equipment.
36:26This is the main purpose that I'm declaring.
36:29While doing it, I inform my clients that I'm doing this.
36:34This is how I do it.
36:37It was the same strategy that we had seen in our other deal in this industry.
36:42Hide the software and the real purpose of the product, and you can circumvent the surveillance export regulations.
36:49For Alper, complying with Turkey's export procedure was too slow.
36:53It takes around six months to get an answer.
36:57Then it's too difficult.
36:59Alper claimed that his plan would have the equipment delivered to our client more quickly.
37:03How long would it take to get the IMSI's?
37:06Four weeks.
37:07I find it absolutely unacceptable that there are people willing to sell to countries where the human rights violations are
37:16obvious.
37:17South Sudan could be on the brink of massive violence.
37:22To conduct this surveillance in violation of the law, this is absolutely very dangerous.
37:27And it becomes actually weapons of mass destruction.
37:32I do believe that every individual, no matter who their employer is, should really look themselves in the mirror and
37:40wonder, what am I doing?
37:41These are the things that states that want to get ahead in their security capabilities, they'll pay big money for.
37:49These are the nuclear weapons of the 21st century.
37:54We approached BTT with our evidence, but they failed to provide a response.
38:00We also asked Area about the behaviour of their staff and whether they represented the ethics of the company.
38:07Area works with the relevant governments to ensure the proper export and legal use of our equipment.
38:13They added that they wouldn't be able to comment further until they had seen the evidence.
38:19We very rarely actually seen this clear evidence of how companies attempt to go around regulations and seek to go
38:28around regulations.
38:29If that is happening on a massive scale, that is hugely concerning.
38:34We are not talking here about regulation, about an expert control.
38:38We are talking about criminal qualification.
38:41Saying that these commercial agreements amount to complicity, to torture, to crimes against humanity or war crimes.
38:57The third and final deal that James hoped to seal was even more brazen.
39:03To buy IMSI catches without revealing the name of our client.
39:06The sale of this type of surveillance equipment is highly restricted.
39:11Using this ploy, James could be buying the spyware for anyone.
39:16Corporations willing to spy on business rivals, criminal gangs or terrorist organisations.
39:22It doesn't matter what the morality or ethics are.
39:26As long as I don't get caught, I'll sell it.
39:28There's simply a demand. We can supply the demand. It's simple economics.
39:33There have been scandals in South Africa and in India where IMSI catchers have been imported and used and abused
39:41by private parties.
39:42The telephone calls of politicians were illegally intercepted and recorded and then published.
39:50We contacted a business called Semtian, a multi-million dollar surveillance company based in China.
39:58Would they do a deal without an export licence?
40:02Or knowing who the client would be?
40:08We arranged a meeting at our reporter's hotel.
40:19It's heavy, very heavy.
40:26So the interface, two antenna, two channel.
40:30And the GPS, GPS and modern and this is for the ground.
40:37He explained that they produced different models of the IMSI
40:40and the configuration and capabilities would be tailored to our client's requirements.
40:46This is very important that we have a clear understanding about this.
40:50We're talking about ten units here.
40:53Ten units? Okay.
40:58We have a client where no export certificate can be provided.
41:03You mean this is not the government?
41:07He was hesitant at first, aware of how such spyware can be misused if it ends up in the wrong
41:13hands.
41:14Yeah, but the key point is that the end user, what we worry about is that the end user is
41:21like the terrorist.
41:25Of course, it's not in our interest to sell to any terrorist organisations.
41:29Yeah, the property is sensitive. It's more sensitive than the government.
41:36But in this industry, money talks.
41:39As with our other deals, he would lie on the paperwork to avoid the export restrictions on surveillance equipment.
41:48We can sell to your shell company and then you do a business with the end user.
41:54Yeah, but you don't need an export certificate for that?
41:58Normally, no.
42:00Because normally, we will not say this is the image capture.
42:02We say this is a Wi-Fi router.
42:04We just apply for the Chinese government that this is the Wi-Fi router, so it's okay.
42:11We just sell it.
42:13Basically, you falsify the documents, the shipping documents, and you say this is not an Emsi catcher.
42:20Yeah, actually, you don't know this at all.
42:22You see this Wi-Fi here.
42:24This works for Wi-Fi also.
42:28Hey, Greg. Hey, you know?
42:32With the prospect of a multi-million dollar deal, he invited his boss to join the discussions.
42:49When Semtien co-founder Frank Fung arrived, he had no desire to know who the clients would be.
42:59What would be the suggestion?
43:01How can we sell it to private users?
43:15We don't pay for the private company. We pay for you only. So you pay for the private user. But
43:22for the service, like the delivery training, we don't buy us. Yeah. But for the contract, I think we only
43:29pay for you.
43:31Okay. So we can do it through a shell company, basically.
43:36You've done that before.
43:38We have done it.
43:40We don't know who is the driver and who is the driver.
43:45And we don't care about it.
43:48This way it's good, because we have done it before.
43:51No.
43:52They would also remove any reference to their company from the IMSI catcher.
43:59We don't print any sentences here.
44:04No brand.
44:05No any brand.
44:06We wipe everything.
44:12With the plan agreed, the conversation turns to the payment.
44:16What's the price for a unit like this?
44:21$200,000 to $300,000.
44:25It's possible for you to give us order before the end of this year.
44:30I have to wage some performance.
44:33So that's my concern.
44:35It's truly remarkable when you consider what the implications of this might be.
44:39For many of these companies, all they care about is that the cash is green.
44:43They don't seem to care at all.
44:46And that's what's really concerning.
44:48Who's going to be using this?
44:50Are they going to be criminals?
44:51Are they going to be gangs?
44:53Private businessmen to spy on his opponents?
44:56It shows that these companies and this business has developed in total secrecy,
45:01above the law, above any kind of regulation.
45:03And this is very frightening and problematic.
45:10We asked Semtien for a response to our findings, but they have not replied.
45:17After four months posing as a middleman in the surveillance industry,
45:21James appeared to have found companies willing to supply both the clients that we proposed,
45:26as well as one seller not caring where the equipment ends up.
45:30For the first time, we have revealed how companies in this secretive industry ignore regulations.
45:37Anyone with enough money is able to buy these highly sophisticated systems,
45:42which could proliferate all over the world.
45:45I would like to see more accountability and transparency in this very, very dark and dangerous market.
45:53Once the genie is out of the bottle, I think there will be sort of an escalation.
45:57The bad guys have this device, now the police force must have this device.
46:02And I think the loser will be the general public.
46:09I've worked in and around the industry long enough to know that there will always be some companies prepared to
46:13break the rules.
46:16If you tighten legislation here, they'll find a loophole there.
46:20If things get too difficult to operate out of Europe, they'll just move somewhere else.
46:23For me, controlling the spread of this technology is almost impossible.
46:36The surveillance state is the asset that eats out democracy from within it.
46:42If we can't find a way to bring surveillance and the practice of surveillance within the rule of law, it's
46:47going to have huge effects for democracy.
46:58Anything you do could be monitored, analyzed, collected or stored by people you don't know about and entities that you're
47:05not aware of.
47:07When you sell a tank to a government in Central Africa, you don't have to worry about that tank rolling
47:13through the streets of Paris.
47:14It stays in Africa.
47:18But this spying technology has a way of coming back.