00:00To discuss what's been happening further, we have Mumtaz Zahra Balosh, the Pakistani ambassador to France, in the studio with
00:07us, along with our international affairs editor, Andrew Hillier.
00:11Ambassador, welcome to the program. Thank you so much for coming on and speaking with us today.
00:16Now, we've seen months of clashes between Pakistan and Afghanistan.
00:22Now, though, the defense minister came out and he said on social media that our patience has now run out.
00:28Now it is open war between us.
00:31So why this declaration and what is the Pakistani government hoping to achieve militarily that it felt it couldn't achieve
00:39through dialogue?
00:41You see, what happened yesterday was anybody who is paying attention was not surprising because ever since 2021, when Taliban
00:52came back to power, we have seen an increase in terrorist attacks in Pakistan.
00:57And we have followed a dialogue path.
01:02We have been engaged with the Afghan authorities.
01:04We have used mediators.
01:07And we have been trying to reason with them, asking them to basically rein in these terror groups, which are
01:15targeting Pakistani civilians, Pakistani armed forces and foreign nationals in Pakistan.
01:19And what happened a couple of days ago was that Afghan government authorities and their military supported those terror groups
01:32which were entering Pakistan with all their heavy equipment.
01:37And the government decided, Pakistan decided, and this time we had to target the government officials, the government facilities from
01:48where such actions were being coordinated.
01:52Now, Afghanistan has said that this is an internal problem for Pakistan and not a new one.
02:01This is something Pakistan has been dealing with.
02:04So does bringing military action into this risk further destabilizing the region?
02:09You see, Pakistan, as I said, Pakistan has exercised patience for a long time.
02:15And our enemy is not the people of Afghanistan.
02:21Our enemy is these terror groups, the TTP, the Al-Qaeda, the ISKP, which have found refuge inside Afghanistan.
02:31And the Afghan authorities have either turned a blind eye or they have given them refuge and they have given
02:41them protection.
02:43And Pakistan has undertaken strikes against these terror groups, very precise strikes against their hideouts, against their training camps.
02:58And if Afghan authorities cannot reign these terror groups, Pakistan has to take action.
03:07And that's what we did yesterday.
03:09Ambassador, you mentioned 2021, the return to power of the Afghan Taliban.
03:14Indeed, back then, Islamabad was viewed as one of the Afghan Taliban's closest friends by many.
03:20Indeed, the then Prime Minister of Pakistan, Imran Khan, said, proclaimed that Afghans had broken the shackles of slavery.
03:27Has Islamabad badly misread the Afghan Taliban?
03:32You see, there is a history.
03:36The Afghan Taliban, what we call Afghan Taliban 2.0, has come back.
03:44And ever since they came back, they have gotten hold of all that military equipment that was left by the
03:53Americans.
03:53And that is very sophisticated military equipment.
03:57They think they are powerful enough to take on their neighbors.
04:03And they also think that they can get away with supporting these terror groups.
04:08And that is a problem.
04:10And as I have said earlier, we have been engaged with them.
04:18We have been communicating with them, through dialogue, and on various occasions.
04:24And requested them.
04:26We have asked them.
04:27We have communicated why this was a very important issue for us.
04:32And Pakistan believes that there is only one serious challenge in our relationship.
04:38That is that of terrorism.
04:40All other issues can be resolved.
04:42Indeed.
04:42But for decades, Pakistan was accused of providing covert support to the Afghan Taliban,
04:49including during U.S.-led NATO operations in Afghanistan.
04:53Is Pakistan not responsible for the situation it finds itself in now?
04:57I think this is a very incorrect assessment of the situation.
05:03Pakistan was a very close partner of the United States and of the NATO forces when there was this operation
05:10in Afghanistan.
05:12And Pakistan provided all kind of support to the NATO and the United States.
05:19We provided our air and ground locks for them to undertake these operations.
05:27And Pakistan has been very cooperative with the Western countries in combating the terror threat that we have had in
05:37Afghanistan.
05:38The unfortunate thing is that since 2021, the world has forgotten that the problem still remains in Afghanistan.
05:45The terror groups are still there.
05:49ISKP has really become stronger.
05:53And so has TTP.
05:55We have a Baloch Liberation Army, which is also targeting Pakistan.
06:00But also, don't forget, there are other terror groups which are targeting other neighbours of Afghanistan.
06:06Almost all neighbours of Afghanistan are suffering because of terror threat that emanates from Afghanistan.
06:13I'd like to ask you a question about the nature of this confrontation.
06:17Now, of course, the Pakistani military vastly outnumbers the Afghan Taliban's own military capability.
06:23So this is a classic case of asymmetric warfare.
06:27We know the Afghan Taliban have a doctrine of asymmetric warfare.
06:30Our correspondents today have been telling us that local people in Pakistan are scared of reprisals, of unconventional warfare, of
06:37attacks that may be carried out on Pakistani soil.
06:40Is Islamabad worried about reprisal attacks being carried out against its own civilians?
06:47And is this not a dangerous strategy to escalate in the way it has done?
06:50You see, we have been suffering for the last several years.
06:53And Pakistani civilians and armed forces and foreign nationals in Pakistan are being killed on a regular basis because of
07:02these terror groups.
07:03So, yes, of course, there is this possibility.
07:08But as the Prime Minister of Pakistan has said, we are ready to defend ourselves.
07:16And we have the capability to respond effectively against all such attacks.
07:24And that is what we have done.
07:27And again, as I said, our enemy is not the people of Afghanistan.
07:31We have always opened our hearts and homes for the Afghan refugees for decades.
07:38And the main thing is this issue of terrorism that needs to be resolved.
07:44And the international community must impress on the Afghan Taliban to take action against these terror groups that they have
07:55harbored for so long.
07:56Thank you, Ambassador, for your time.
07:57Thank you very much.
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