00:01NASA sent a spacecraft toward an asteroid named Bennu with the goal of collecting samples from the space rock without
00:07actually landing on it.
00:09In 2020, that sample collection happened quite dramatically, I might add.
00:14And in just a few days, the spacecraft is returning to Earth sample in hand.
00:19And so we're very excited about the OSIRIS-REx mission.
00:22And today we have NASA expert Noah Petro here with us to discuss the ends of NASA mission and, you
00:28know, what this endeavor might mean for the future of space studies.
00:32Thank you for joining us, Noah.
00:33My pleasure. Thank you for having me. What an exciting time.
00:36Oh, of course. And so to begin, I guess the question everyone has is, you know, we've collected moon rocks
00:42and we're looking at Mars sample return.
00:44Well, what can we learn from asteroid sample collection that we can't with planetary or moon samples?
00:48Well, the first thing is really that we think we think that asteroids reflect the very earliest parts of our
00:56solar systems history,
00:57that they are effectively pristine fragments left over from the first few hundred million years of solar system evolution.
01:05And as such, as they hurdle through space, remain relatively unchanged.
01:10And so what we hope to learn through the samples from Bennu is what this particular type of asteroid,
01:15this carbon rich asteroid, how it reflects what happened four and a half billion years ago,
01:20and compare it to what we learned from samples from Apollo through other meteorite and asteroid sample studies,
01:27and really, you know, again, use this to inform how we construct the family tree that is our solar system,
01:32and maybe challenge some assumptions that we've had, change our interpretations of early solar system history,
01:39and then guide us on future studies of our solar system.
01:43Yeah, absolutely. And more specifically, why was Bennu selected as the asteroid for this project?
01:49And I guess in particular, why was the northern crater from which the sample was collected, why was that the
01:55site?
01:55So for multiple reasons, Bennu was an excellent target.
01:59One, it's a near-Earth asteroid. It will pass close to the Earth in the future.
02:03So we want to understand what these potentially future Earth-intercepting asteroids are like.
02:08And so by going and studying it, orbiting and mapping the asteroid,
02:13we get a greater insight into the properties of this wonderful rock in space.
02:18Collecting the samples, again, these carbon-rich samples may inform our understanding of what were the things that seeded Earth
02:26with the chemistry that led to life.
02:28There's a possibility that we'll find amino acids, chemistries within these rock fragments,
02:34that may have helped introduce the compounds that lead to multicellular life on the Earth.
02:42The other thing is, again, understanding how these samples relate to fragments from other asteroids that have been brought back
02:50by the Japanese Space Agency from meteorites.
02:53You know, for me, one of the exciting things is by shepherding these materials through the Earth's atmosphere in the
02:57sample return container,
02:59we're able to understand how different pristine samples are from those meteorites that we've been studying for well over 50
03:05years.
03:06And so the sort of the encapsulation and preservation of those fragments from the surface of Bennu will help us
03:13understand meteorite history,
03:14whether it's from Bennu or other objects that reside in our labs.
03:19Now, the interesting thing about the spot that these samples were collected from goes back to our interpretations of the
03:26Earth-based data that we had of Bennu before Osiris-Rex was launched.
03:30It was assumed that the surface of Bennu would be relatively beach-like, very fine-grained material covering the entire
03:36surface.
03:37Of course, when we get there, we see that the surface of Bennu is covered in rocks.
03:41Almost every inch of the surface has a rock fragment.
03:45And I'm holding a small piece from my personal collection of a rock fragment.
03:49The entire surface was covered in these rocks.
03:52And so the spot that we ended up collecting these samples from is one of the few places that was
03:57not completely covered by rocks.
03:59And so the fascinating thing will be understanding what we got and how the samples we collected relate to other
04:06parts of the asteroid.
04:07And again, we have this wonderful collection of data from the orbital phase of the mission.
04:12Understanding what we have compared to what we think exists elsewhere on the asteroid is going to be, I think,
04:18a very exciting field of study as we unlock these samples.
04:21Yeah, absolutely.
04:22One of the most interesting things about the sample collection to me was when the spacecraft reached out and it
04:28went sort of poof instead of, you know, having like a solid surface as we might expect with an asteroid.
04:33Was there any reason that the team decided to not land and actually just do a touch and go?
04:39Yeah, I mean, the idea to touch and go was baked into the mission from its, you know, from its
04:46very earliest stages because, you know, to actually stop the spacecraft and touch for more than a few seconds takes
04:54fuel and time.
04:55So this idea that we touch and go to make it this cosmic kiss really simplifies things.
05:02You know, as we touch the spacecraft, there's a blast of gas to kick up material that then gets collected
05:07into the sample collection system.
05:09And we leave, you know, the assumption is, and again, remember, Bennu is a very small object, so it's a
05:17microgravity environment.
05:18So there was a thought that when we touched the surface of Bennu, they would kick up abundant dust so
05:24that it could become this dust cloud around the spacecraft.
05:26So we wanted to get the spacecraft away from this dust cloud as quickly as possible.
05:31So through this touch and go, we minimize the chance for contaminating the entire spacecraft, but maximize the opportunity for
05:37collecting these precious fragments that will be returning to Earth on Sunday.
05:41Yeah, absolutely. And one of the things that I was really awestruck by is reading about how, like what it
05:48took, like the maneuvers it took to bring this spacecraft, not just back to Earth, but to a very specific
05:53spot in Utah.
05:54So what does it take to accomplish such a feat?
05:58It takes practice, high level math, engineering, but also an understanding exactly where the spacecraft is in the solar system,
06:05right?
06:05So this is one of the wonderful things about tracking spacecraft is we know where OSIRIS-REx is within a
06:13few meters of its location as it hurdles towards the Earth.
06:16And it will drop off the sample return canister.
06:19And that sample return canister has to find a particular spot above the Earth.
06:23Parachutes have to deploy and it will gently touch down in the Utah desert.
06:28This takes, you know, a team of people.
06:31I hope people don't think that, you know, missions are one or two folks locked in an office somewhere, punching
06:36numbers.
06:37This takes expertise across NASA and really, really around the world.
06:41This is a global effort to return these fragments to us here on Earth.
06:46And, you know, we've had an opportunity to do this type of thing before.
06:51There was the Genesis sample return mission from many, many decades ago that was effectively a test run for this.
06:58So as much as everything is new with OSIRIS-REx, we've learned from previous missions how to do this.
07:04So we have great confidence that, you know, come Sunday morning, we'll all be glued to our televisions and see
07:09parachutes deploy
07:10and a gently rocking spacecraft touch down in the Utah desert and make its way to the Johnson Space Center
07:17where those samples can be curated so that not only scientists today,
07:22but scientists for decades and centuries to come can benefit from the samples that come back from asteroid bending.
07:28I'm certainly very excited. I know the whole Space.com team is. We've been covering it very, very detailed.
07:34Detailedly. I don't know if that's a word.
07:36It is today.
07:37It is today.
07:39On something you said about how these samples will be used for generations to come or studied for generations to
07:44come.
07:44I was really impressed by one of the points in the mission overview, which said that 70 percent of the
07:49sample is going to be preserved at, I believe, Johnson Space Center.
07:53And I wrote the quote down because I really loved it.
07:56It was for a study by scientists not yet born using technologies not yet invented.
08:02So what do you think is the importance of that approach?
08:04And if you can think of any, what are some gaps that we currently have in these studies that like
08:09future technologies can help fill?
08:11The valuable lesson comes from Apollo, Apollo samples, because we learned in 2008 that by studying previously studied samples,
08:19we could find water in them because we had instrumentation that measure smaller fragments.
08:24And so the valuable thing for OSIRIS-REx is to preserve everything from fragments the size of a walnut down
08:30to things that are microscopic,
08:32because future studies of those microscopic samples will find things that we miss in the next years to come.
08:38So the study of smaller and smaller fragments, I think, is where the bonanza will be because we expect that
08:43there's going to be many, many microscopic samples that we'll have.
08:46And so, you know, my children and their children and their children's children will develop those technologies and unlock the
08:52secrets that are held in those tiniest of fragments.
08:55Absolutely. And just the second part of my question was sort of, you know, what are there any gaps that
09:00we currently have when studying these types of samples that you know of that you hope will be filled with
09:05future technologies?
09:06You know, I don't know. I mean, that's the joy is that I think the questions that we want to
09:10ask haven't even been raised yet. Right.
09:12So. So for me, it's perhaps about what might, you know, where in the solar system did those fragments form?
09:18And so extracting every piece of atomic information from them using technologies that have not yet been developed to answer
09:26questions that that actually might get raised by other sample return missions.
09:29We're going to be surprised by Artemis. We're going to be surprised by bringing in fragments from across the solar
09:33system.
09:33And so those missions will help inform things that we ask of OSIRIS-REx. And we know that we'll be
09:39surprised.
09:40And so for me, the joy is finding out where the surprises come from that lead to future questions.
09:45Definitely. I guess sort of related, I think a lot of a lot of the time the public questions whether
09:52it's worth, you know, funneling money into space missions in general and more specifically very science forward space missions like
09:58OSIRIS-REx.
09:59What would you say in response to that? Why is this important for humanity?
10:04Again, I think it becomes, again, the fodder for future science.
10:08And in my, you know, limited amount of time that I have left, I want to say, you know, we've
10:12learned that missions not only fulfill science questions today, but then allow us to raise and answer other questions.
10:19We have data from Bennu, we have the samples, and those are going to be used for decades to come,
10:24centuries to come.
10:25And so, yes, it takes money, but those fund scientists to ask important questions, to educate the public, and then
10:33hopefully inform people and excite people to become the future scientists.
10:36I'm hoping that the kids that watch the sample come back on Sunday will be those future researchers who are
10:42in laboratories around the globe studying those fragments and unlocking the history of the solar system.
10:47Wonderful. I know you have to leave soon, but I guess I'll just leave you with one final question.
10:52On a very personal, like in your opinion, what would be the best thing we find from these samples, and
10:58what would be the worst, do you think?
11:00I mean, I think that the best thing that we'll find are fragments potentially of water, of amino acids that
11:07may have been the precursors to seeding life here on the planet, as well as the ages of these samples.
11:12How old are they? Are they 4.8 billion years old? Are they 4.4 billion years old? Are they
11:163.8 billion years old?
11:18Bennu will hold secrets. Some of them will surprise us, and that's what I'm most excited about.
11:23I think the worst case scenario is that we get a suitcase and all of the rocks are very similar.
11:29I'm looking for the diversity of fragments as well, because we know that there are different types of material on
11:33Bennu,
11:33and I expect that these samples will all reflect the diversity of that asteroid and have other surprises as well,
11:40other fragments of other asteroids that have found their way onto the surface.
11:44But even said, if everything is identical, we will then have, you know, material that is the feedstock for future
11:50scientists
11:51and for understanding this earliest history of the solar system.
11:54Wonderful. Thank you so much for your time, Noah. This was really insightful, and I really enjoy our conversation.
11:59My pleasure. Anytime. Enjoy the show on Sunday.
12:02Have a great day.
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