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00:00Hello and welcome to the Traitors Uncloaked, the visualized companion podcast with me, Ed Gamble.
00:05Now, this is your spoiler warning. If you haven't watched episode 9 of the Traitors yet,
00:10head to BBC iPlayer and do that first, because tonight we are unpacking everything in full
00:15spoilerific detail. Coming up on Uncloaked, we'll see the moment our latest murdered and
00:20banished faithful Jesse and Ellie finally discover the identity of the Traitors. They'll both be here
00:25to talk through their emotional exits. Ross is back and reunited with Ellie to talk through
00:30the pressure of playing the Traitors as a secret couple. And helping me break it all down,
00:34I'm joined by comedian Chris Ramsey, alongside series three faithful Kaz.
00:44Welcome. Welcome to both of you. Welcome to Uncloaked for the first time, Chris.
00:48Thank you very much. And welcome back, Kaz. A delight to have you both here. I've got to know,
00:53what do you think of the series so far? How are we enjoying it, Chris?
00:56Brilliant. Yeah? Absolutely brilliant. I love it. I'm a recent convert to the Traitors.
01:02Fantastic welcome. My God. Where has it been hiding? I'm like, serious?
01:07I will say it's not been hiding in the slightest. Well, that's because I'm, yeah, that's because I'm an idiot.
01:11It's the biggest show in Britain. Yeah, it's because I'm an idiot. And it's absolutely
01:15Goddard's hoop, line and sinker. Yeah. First time I saw them catch a Traitor, did I cry? I cried.
01:21No word of a lie, I cried watching it. I was like, what's happening?
01:24So that would be, you cried when Hugo left? I cried, not specifically.
01:28Look, I love Hugo as well. No, it was the elation and the mood in the round table when they
01:34knew
01:34that they'd done it. Yeah. Oh, it's just, just absolutely amazing.
01:39Picture and a half for Celeb 2, wasn't it? Yeah.
01:42Couldn't do it. Couldn't do it. With ages a decade.
01:46First, we need to talk about the ceremonial dagger, the huge reveal at the end of the
01:50episode. This is a new thing for UK traitors. The ceremonial dagger that gives you double
01:55vote privileges. How impactful do we think this ceremonial dagger is going to be at the
01:59next round table? Obviously, it all depends on who they give it to. If they don't give it
02:02to Roxy, I think they've lost their minds. Really?
02:05Because she is absolutely drinking Stephen's Kool-Aid at the minute.
02:08Yeah. I mean, Roxy would be the logical choice to go for. The second person's that would be
02:11for us. Yeah. He's another one who's not really pinned that much onto Rachel or on Steve and
02:16actually he's quite trusting of Rachel. Yes. But the other temptation would be, of course,
02:21to give themselves the dagger. But I guess the worry is if you give it to yourself as a
02:26traitor, that I think whoever gets the ceremonial dagger will come under suspicion of being a
02:31traitor. Absolutely.
02:32They'll be like, just in case we should get rid of them.
02:34And so it's got to be someone that's on side with you right now. And that's why Roxy we
02:37think is perfect because it's on side with me right now. Well, Stephen slash Rachel right now.
02:41And I can throw something onto her later on and it's fine. But we know she's already gunning
02:46for James. She's voted for James since her mum went. It's enough to keep you ticking over
02:51that you can then throw things away. As artfully as Rachel seems to throw everything in the way
02:55What I'll be interested to see is my temptation as a faithful, if I didn't have the ceremonial
03:00dagger, would be to try and unite people against whoever has the dagger. So their double vote
03:05means nothing. So vote for them.
03:07But you don't know when they're going to reveal it to them.
03:09Yeah. But if they all vote and then Claudia goes, this person had the ceremonial dagger,
03:14so their vote counts for two. Then all tactics are out the window, I think.
03:18Oh my God.
03:18It's very exciting. Let's talk about Jessie's murder. I am personally gutted that Jessie is
03:24gone.
03:25Horrified.
03:25She is amazing.
03:27Yeah. She's brilliant.
03:28Kaz, as a former faithful, do you see that murder as a mistake? Jessie's murder as a mistake
03:33from Stephen's perspective? Or is it a double bluff you can expect?
03:36If you're thinking, with trade hat on, I think Jessie was the logical person to murder. And
03:40if you think you can get away with it and play that game. And it is a risky strategy to
03:43do. But actually, they've done it.
03:46So not only did Stephen escape the round table without a vote, Rachel also escaped the round
03:51table without a vote. But she didn't really keep a low profile. She decided to cause a
03:56bit of chaos over breakfast instead.
03:59Right. Well, I think I have the next one. And I'm not telling anybody. But I think somebody
04:08messed up last night and didn't realise they messed up. And I think I have them.
04:12To me, Rachel is doing some amazingly bold and wild plays. But she's not checking with Stephen
04:19at any point in the turret. She's not going, tomorrow at breakfast, I'm going to say that
04:24I've got my eye on someone. And he's just watching it like he's watching the telly.
04:28She's just... He's watching it like someone in a play who's watching their partner forget
04:32their lines. That's the look on his face. He's like, that's not the next bit. You don't
04:36know the bit. The man is bright red and sweating at every round table and no one's even looked
04:41at him. I don't understand what's going on.
04:44Chris, if you were playing as a faithful, who would you be watching most closely out of who's
04:47left, do you think? I would be suspicious of everyone at every moment while simultaneously
04:55being not suspicious of everyone at every moment. I've got no backbone when it comes
05:00to stuff like this. Well, no, I think you'd be better than you're giving yourself credit
05:03for. I think you'd really get into the game. And I think on the missions, you'd be the
05:07giddiest little boy. Were you? Yes, because we weren't together.
05:11So excited by those missions. Imagine me pushing someone in that little wagon up the hill.
05:14Are you kidding me? I'd be absolutely buzzing. Play with all the little puzzles, going,
05:18come here, man, have you seen this? I'm stacking skulls.
05:21I would love that, to be fair. I would love to stack skulls, yeah.
05:25Speaking of missions, let's talk about this box mission in this episode. Absolutely brilliant
05:31mission. A jack-in-the-box was wonderful.
05:33Yeah. Could give you so many clues, but also so camp and ridiculous.
05:37Yeah, it's just so out there.
05:38It felt like it should expose the traitors, but did it give the faithful anything useful,
05:43do you think?
05:44No. I think it was chaos. I said, yeah, I think it was absolute chaos. And also, one of the
05:50questions was, who do the traitors think wouldn't make it to the final? And instead of looking
05:56at what it meant as a group, they were looking at the fact that someone who they liked had
06:01picked them and taken to pursue, do you know what I mean? It was absolute chaos. I think
06:05if you think you could find a pattern from that, you're a psychopath.
06:09They're all just overthinking it so much. With every single play that seems to be happening
06:12in this series, we're seeing it as like, is it the most obvious thing? Is it not the
06:15most obvious thing? And everyone's like double-guessing everything.
06:17Well, what I thought was amazing, and he's proved this a couple of times already, actually,
06:21is Matthew has a photographic memory for how people vote for things. He's been asked a few
06:27times who's voted for who at the round table, and he can go back four round tables
06:31and be like, she voted for him, he voted for her, and with this as well, he remembered
06:35who voted for everyone and everything. Brilliant. Well, okay then. He's a psychopath.
06:40I think, well, yeah, apart from the insane memory, actually, he was building up that kind
06:45of picture towards Stephen. Yes. And it did seem like it was one of these things where
06:48Stephen was, again, just going to go as a result of what he'd done, because the logical
06:52thing as a traitor would be, I want to make as much money as I can. I also don't want
06:55to
06:55look like I know all the answers, so I want to get one of them incorrect.
06:59What I liked about this mission is it's a version of the chessboard mission in previous series,
07:05that you're answering questions and trying to get the same answers as the traitors. But
07:09in those missions, the traitors come up with the answers, they discuss them the night before
07:12in the turret. Here, the traitors had to do it on the fly.
07:16Climbing out of a box and whispering. Climbing out of the box, whispering, and so it takes a little
07:21bit more control away from them, and then they have to choose how they're going to answer based
07:25on how everyone else will see it. I think if people had been looking hard enough, they could have got
07:28some clues from that. For me, questions and all that aside, if you really wanted to know
07:32who were the traitors, all you had to do was, when they opened the box, look at how much
07:37Stephen was hammering up the, rubbing the eyes like a bear coming out of hibernation.
07:42It was like, I've been in here ages. Never rub your eyes. It's dare time.
07:47It's also, it's the same thing when you take the blindfolds off after the traitors selection.
07:52People need to realise, if you're a traitor, humans don't rub their eyes like that.
07:56Humans don't go, what? Our latest murdered and banished faithful, Jesse and Ellie, will be
08:03with us shortly. But first, let's see the moment they met after leaving the castle and finally
08:07discovered who the traitors really are.
08:14Why? Why? Why? Oh my gosh!
08:21What the heck? Why? Right, no. I can't care. Are you okay?
08:27I'm okay. I'm okay. I'm at peace.
08:31Oh, Ellie! I know. I bet that I, erm, know who it is now.
08:39Mm. Who do you think the traitors are?
08:42Jade.
08:46Stephen, even though I'm, do you know what, I'm really bored of saying his name.
08:52Roxy could be a traitor. I don't know.
08:57Ellie. I really trusted you. Yeah.
09:00I'm hoping you are a faithful.
09:06Tell me, what are you?
09:08Oh!
09:09Jesse, I don't want to disappoint you.
09:13I am...
09:16..a faithful.
09:17Oh! I knew it, I knew it.
09:20I can't believe they're banished yet.
09:21It was rude. It was rude of all of them.
09:24Who...
09:24Who do you think the traitors are, then?
09:29I voted for Jade at my last round table.
09:33I could have got it wrong.
09:34Like, I am a bit worried.
09:35I've just done what I've done to her, to Sam, you know, to Sam.
09:38Yeah.
09:38But I'm still stuck on Jade.
09:41And then Stephen...
09:43Stephen, I was bearing him in mind after you pointed him out yesterday.
09:48And, you know, with the library thing, you know, I was like,
09:52oh, maybe Stephen has done this.
09:54And then, obviously, when Fiona was caught as a traitor, it was like,
09:57well, maybe that's case closed and it was just Fiona.
10:00So, should we find out, then?
10:02Oh!
10:03We've got to.
10:04I can't. I'm dying.
10:05I can't. I'm really excited.
10:06Right.
10:07Oh, Ellie, I'm scared.
10:09Yeah.
10:09I'm scared.
10:10Go on. Go on, go on, go on.
10:12Are you ready?
10:12Rip the band-aid off. Are you ready?
10:13Yeah, yeah, yeah.
10:14Oh, God, OK.
10:15Right, OK.
10:20HE SIGHS
10:24It's Stephen!
10:26It's Stephen!
10:26HE LAUGHS
10:28I knew when he hopped on that boat last night.
10:31I knew.
10:32From the beginning.
10:34Ellie, oh, my God! It was Stephen.
10:36I am not just a daft lass that wears yellow and orange.
10:39No-one trusted...
10:41You were right. You were on it.
10:43You were on it.
10:45He's done well.
10:46He had the old daft city to mend me.
10:48Oh! Get in!
10:50Right.
10:51Stephen, I actually can't take this.
10:58HE SIGHS
10:59HE SIGHS
11:02Rachel.
11:04HE SIGHS
11:06HE SIGHS
11:07HE SIGHS
11:09Oh, Harriet!
11:10She was like, you were acting suspicious, Ellie.
11:12It was all a ruse.
11:14Harriet!
11:15It was all a ruse. She was right.
11:16Harriet, I'm so sorry.
11:18Oh, I'm so sorry.
11:19Harriet!
11:20I just...
11:21When Harriet made her argument,
11:22it just didn't make quite enough sense.
11:26I'm so sorry, Harriet.
11:28Harriet.
11:28Rachel...
11:29Rachel's played a really good game.
11:31Rachel's played a really good game.
11:33OK.
11:33Right, OK.
11:34Jessie, we've got another scroll to open.
11:36Let's go. I need to know.
11:43Oh!
11:48Secret...relation...tips.
11:49Right.
11:50Oh!
11:51OK.
11:56Hang on.
11:58Hang on.
12:01You and Ross are in a couple?
12:06I'm...
12:08Yeah, we are.
12:09Yeah, we've been together four and a half years.
12:12I'm sorry I can't be here anymore.
12:15I totally backed up your boyfriend.
12:18You did, and that's why I love you so much.
12:20Team Ross!
12:20Team Ross!
12:22You are the best...
12:22You are the best couple ever!
12:25Oh!
12:26Jessie, I was so grateful to you.
12:29I was so grateful to you.
12:31I was like...
12:32Because I didn't want to do too much,
12:34because I didn't want to give it away.
12:36And the fact that you backed him up straight from the get-go,
12:39I was like, thank you, Jessie.
12:40Thank you!
12:42Oh!
12:42Oh!
12:43Oh, my gosh!
12:45Yeah?
12:46You are the best couple.
12:48Oh, my gosh.
12:49You are going to have beautiful babies.
12:51LAUGHTER
12:55And Jessie and Ellie are with us now!
12:58Yay!
12:59Welcome!
13:00Thank you!
13:01Welcome to Uncloaked, both of you.
13:03Jessie, if you could stay in your seat for Uncloaked,
13:05that would be great.
13:06That was whirlwind!
13:07I feel like I was getting immersion!
13:08Yeah!
13:09Like, oh, my God, you and Ross!
13:11That was wonderful.
13:12That was such a good clip.
13:13Let's start with you, Jessie.
13:15Obviously, very early on, you were on to Stephen.
13:18Yes.
13:18With the Library Five and the Cage theories.
13:21How does it feel to be proved right?
13:23I mean, I am pleased,
13:25because I had Ross back it up.
13:31Yeah.
13:31And then he left, and I was like,
13:34right, it's just me now.
13:36And I was hoping people might hop on board,
13:41but no one did, really.
13:43And sort of completely ignoring you the way they did.
13:45Everyone was ignoring me.
13:45I was a massive ghost in that castle.
13:48I was irrelevant.
13:48But I was right!
13:49Woo-hoo!
13:51Not to us, as viewers, we're watching it going,
13:53someone listen to Jessie.
13:54Yeah.
13:55We need this to happen.
13:56It was hard, but I guess that's just how it is.
13:59That's how it is.
13:59I mean, you never shied away from voicing your suspicions
14:02about Stephen, especially back in episode four
14:04after Ross was banished.
14:06Let's have a look.
14:07Ross, mate, you were stitched up.
14:11Oh, it's Stephen.
14:13It's Stephen.
14:17Are you all right?
14:18It was just like a split decision between him and Rhys.
14:21I just put my relationship with Rhys first.
14:23It just goes to show how wrong we can get it.
14:28And here they all come to chat a load of bollocks.
14:32Honestly, this is mad.
14:34That is one of my quotes of the series so far.
14:36Here they come to chat a load of bollocks.
14:37It is absolutely perfect.
14:41For me, it was like the Fiona thing really threw me off.
14:44Like I was starting to get there with Stephen.
14:46And then when Fiona got banished and he cried at the table,
14:51I thought for me, that was like, oh, he can't be a traitor too.
14:54You know, he's so upset.
14:57And like, it really like, it took me backwards.
15:00I was, no, no, he wasn't.
15:01I was like, it's lies.
15:03It's lies that I was, I was like on, on him.
15:07I blocked her.
15:08I was like, right, she's gone.
15:09I was what?
15:10And I was like, no, I do not trust you.
15:13Yeah.
15:13But the rest of the world does.
15:15So I don't know what to do here.
15:16But I didn't believe those tears.
15:19Stephen.
15:20Ah!
15:21I think that's like admirable gut feeling,
15:23because when Fiona went, not only did he cry,
15:27which is, you know, maybe something to suggest that he's faithful,
15:30but also that should have been the end of the Library 5 theory,
15:33because Fiona was also in that room.
15:35So you go, she's the tracer who was in there.
15:37But the fact that you, I think you even say that, Jessie,
15:40you're like, well.
15:40I did wrap it up a bit.
15:41And I was like, right.
15:43Yeah, it isn't him.
15:45And I did leave it.
15:47For a bit.
15:48And then you're straight back onto him.
15:49Yeah, I just couldn't.
15:51You were like a cold case detective, keep going back.
15:54Yeah, I was just like, hmm, it just doesn't add up totally.
15:58And yeah, I'll just go back.
16:01Because that's all I have.
16:03I don't have.
16:03Trust your gut.
16:04Yeah, she was right.
16:05Trust your gut.
16:06Did that influence you at all, Ellie?
16:08In terms of everything that Jessie had said and brought together
16:10to the round table the day before.
16:13Obviously, she was then murdered.
16:14Did that change your mindset at all the next day?
16:16Or was it just a case of, next day, that's it?
16:18It was absolutely ticking away.
16:20And I think I had been listening to Jessie,
16:22but then I wanted to come with an idea
16:25and kind of show conviction around my own ideas.
16:28And so much to my mistake,
16:31like I kind of stuck with the things that I was going for
16:34and kind of shut out what you were saying a little bit,
16:37which is obviously to my great regret,
16:39because you were right.
16:41It's fair.
16:42And like, we know halo effect.
16:44If you like someone,
16:45you give them other positive characteristics.
16:47You think of them as more trustworthy.
16:49I think it helped that you built bonds with other players.
16:52Bloody snappy dresser as well.
16:53He looks great.
16:55So stylish.
16:56Honestly, yeah.
16:57Yeah.
16:58Do you think Matthew,
16:59when he was packing all his little jumpers and went,
17:01I'm going to look so great in there,
17:02and then he saw Stephen and he's going,
17:03oh, damn it.
17:04Oh, damn.
17:06Yeah.
17:07So obviously you are a psychologist, Ellie.
17:09That was another one of your secrets while you were in the castle.
17:12Were you using that while you were in there?
17:14Were you psychoanalyzing people?
17:15Well, I've got a research background,
17:18so I was trying to think about all the theories that would apply,
17:22biases that you might have,
17:24like confirmation bias is a really classic one we see in the traitors.
17:27As soon as you decide that someone's a traitor,
17:30you then just find evidence to support your theory.
17:33I think that's absolutely what happened with me.
17:35For Sam, I was just like, everything he did,
17:37I was like, well, that's traitorous.
17:38Yeah.
17:39That's S.H.I.E.L.D.
17:40When he went with that S.H.I.E.L.D.
17:41I was like, classic traitor, that.
17:42I mean, I bet that S.H.I.E.L.D.
17:43was traitorous to everyone.
17:44Yeah.
17:45To be fair, we know he's not a traitor watching the show.
17:47It seemed traitorous to me.
17:48Did it?
17:49Oh, yeah.
17:49Completely, yeah.
17:50You were like, this is dead dodgy, Sam.
17:52What are you doing?
17:53At least say it beforehand.
17:54If he'd done it more quietly,
17:56and just got the S.H.I.E.L.D.
17:57and not announced it in front of everyone quite confidently.
18:00I think that was, it was a bit of a red flag.
18:01I just hadn't really doubted him at all.
18:05Yeah.
18:05Well, you were right.
18:05I think I was just Steven.
18:07Total Vision.
18:08But yeah, I didn't really think much of that.
18:10Jessie, you brought so much energy to the missions.
18:13Let's remind ourselves of how much you got into them.
18:16Please, please, we must win.
18:19Oh, no!
18:26Go, go, go! Come on!
18:32Yes!
18:33Oh, no, this is a nightmare.
18:36Yes!
18:38Yes!
18:43Yes!
18:45Yes!
18:45Yes!
18:46When you met me earlier before we started filming,
18:48you seemed really excited to meet me.
18:50And then I thought, Jessie's excited for everything though.
18:53I just love life.
18:54I just love life so much.
18:56It's amazing.
18:57Which, this is a question for both of you.
18:58Which was your favourite mission that you got a chance to do?
19:01Picture mission.
19:02Recreating the pictures.
19:03Which one's that?
19:03The portraits.
19:04You know, with the...
19:05Oh, I love that.
19:06When Ross cradled me, I was like,
19:07yes, please, Ross.
19:10Sorry.
19:11No?
19:11Jessie, remember?
19:12Remember?
19:13Ellie loves me.
19:14It's fine.
19:15You're lucky I'm not the secret traitor.
19:18Yeah, that was good, that.
19:20Yeah, it was really good.
19:22I think because it just broke it up a bit, didn't it?
19:23It was a good laugh.
19:24This is what I love about The Traters,
19:26is it can be such a dark and tense show,
19:28but then the next thing you know,
19:29you're watching a man get milked.
19:32Jessie and Ellie,
19:33both of you played with a lot of heart,
19:35especially at the round table.
19:37It got quite emotional now and again.
19:38Let's have a little reminder of one of those instances.
19:42Walking in today and finding out that Jessie was murdered,
19:47it was actually quite hard.
19:48Oh, don't cry. Don't cry.
19:53Oh, I didn't want to cry.
19:56You're actually the person I probably feel second closest to
19:59after Jessie, and I just wanted to spend time.
20:02Oh, Ellie.
20:05You don't know who to trust.
20:08You want to hang out with people.
20:11I'd just come in here and I was like,
20:12I'm going to talk to Jessie tomorrow,
20:14and she's gone.
20:17Ellie, you said there that Jessie was the person
20:19you were planning to talk to that day.
20:21Yeah.
20:22How did it feel losing that opportunity
20:24after Jessie was murdered?
20:25When you didn't walk into breakfast,
20:27I was just like, I was so depleted.
20:31I had nothing left to give.
20:33Aww.
20:34Because it was at that point,
20:35I really, you were the only person
20:37who was pretty much a faithful to me.
20:39Yeah.
20:40And I just didn't really know who to turn to.
20:43And I think that I spent that whole day
20:45just running around like a lost lamb,
20:47trying to go to Rachel, I guess.
20:49Yeah.
20:50She's just like, wrong move, wrong move.
20:52It's like when you're on a night out
20:53with like loads of friends,
20:55and some friends of friends,
20:56then your friends leave,
20:57and you're left with the people you don't really want.
20:59Oh, yeah.
20:59That's basically what just happened to you.
21:02Now, Rachel admitted that she used a white lie.
21:06Was it a white lie?
21:07It was a lie.
21:08That's what she called it.
21:10White lie, in inverted commas.
21:12To flush out someone at breakfast
21:13and then came for you at the round table, Ellie.
21:16Were you expecting that at all?
21:18No.
21:18No, no, no.
21:19That really took me by surprise.
21:22And I think that's probably what got me tearful
21:24is I just wasn't ready.
21:26So I just didn't have time to steal myself.
21:29I was just like, what are you saying?
21:32Kaz, once a suspicion sticks in the game,
21:34is there anything a faithful can do to shake it off?
21:36If you find a way, please let me know.
21:40I don't think, I mean,
21:41it comes back to what you were saying before, Ellie,
21:42about confirmation bias.
21:43Because I was at a point where
21:45everything someone does then becomes traitorous.
21:47Is that idea, once someone suspects something of you,
21:49that's it.
21:49Well, of course, with you then we got to
21:51who would do a toast at breakfast?
21:53He must be a traitor.
21:54And then we got to
21:54of course a doctor is going to be a traitor.
21:56Yeah.
21:57Helping people in the day and killing people at night.
21:58Oh, that's what I do.
21:59That is ultimate confirmation bias, isn't it?
22:01Yeah.
22:02Jessie, this series we've had quite a few secret relationships
22:05and there is some chatter that
22:07you're in a secret relationship with someone in the cast.
22:10I don't know if you've heard this.
22:11There's been a couple.
22:12Well, some people are suggesting that
22:13either you're in a relationship with Jack
22:15or Jack's your brother, which it's not both.
22:19Well, I mean, you never know these two.
22:22No, we are not in a relationship and we are not related.
22:26Yeah.
22:26Okay, good.
22:27We've cleared that up.
22:28Just cleared that up, guys.
22:29Now, Ellie, you dropped a huge bombshell
22:31when you revealed that you and Ross were a secret couple.
22:34Let's remind ourselves of your leaving speech
22:36and the revelation about you and Ross.
22:39I do have a confession I'd like to make before I go.
22:45I didn't come in here alone.
22:50I actually came in with my boyfriend.
22:54Ross.
22:55Oh, my God!
22:58Get out of town!
22:59And look who it is back at the Uncloaked studio.
23:02It's Ross!
23:07Finally, reunited.
23:08We are.
23:09This is lovely.
23:09It feels so good.
23:11How hard was it keeping that secret for both of you?
23:14And who found it harder, do you think?
23:16I definitely found it harder.
23:19Keeping the secret...
23:20Well, what did I do?
23:21I just stopped talking.
23:23That's amazing.
23:24That is the best way to keep the secret.
23:25That was my secret.
23:26Science.
23:27Yeah.
23:28I think I accidentally was too relaxed around.
23:30She said...
23:31And I was like...
23:34Don't look at me.
23:34Don't talk to me.
23:35And that's why I was like...
23:36Traitor?
23:36Why are you turning away?
23:38This is what we have to mention, Ellie,
23:40is that Ross thought you were a traitor.
23:42I know!
23:43When you left the game.
23:44Can you believe this?
23:46No!
23:46I didn't understand that that's what he was thinking,
23:48but he was really supportive, considering.
23:50100%.
23:51All for the household.
23:52Well, that's the dream scenario, isn't it?
23:55It's like you're a faithful
23:56and you think your partner might be a traitor.
23:57Someone might bring home that money.
23:59Exactly.
24:00That was our game plan going in.
24:01Yeah.
24:03Did you ever suspect Ross, Ellie?
24:05The only time I suspected you was at the traitor's pit,
24:07because you looked a little sweaty at that traitor's pit round table.
24:11And I thought, why is he so sweaty?
24:12It's so cold.
24:14Ellie, you should have known more than the public.
24:16I'm a sweaty boy.
24:18Actually, as a viewer,
24:19it was the first thing I learned about you.
24:20Thank you!
24:21This is what I'm saying!
24:21I'm competitive and I get sweaty
24:23and I become sweaty Ross.
24:25Guy knows his brand.
24:26At least he owes it.
24:27That's the important thing.
24:28That's it.
24:29Were you tempted at the round table,
24:30just to be like,
24:31I've got to go over there and mop his brow.
24:33I've got to go over there.
24:36Nice to meet you.
24:37Get that sweat off.
24:39Did you sit down before the show
24:41and come up with how you were going to act around each other
24:43and set each other any rules, you know,
24:46no eye contact, that sort of stuff?
24:47Not too many,
24:48because we knew that there were just going to be
24:50so many surprises thrown at us,
24:51we'd have to kind of react in the moment.
24:53I think our major plan was just to, like,
24:56bond with different people in the game
24:57so that we could defend each other,
25:00you know, in different social groups.
25:02But we did have the,
25:03I really like this person.
25:05Oh, yeah.
25:06When we were saying, like,
25:07and if someone was coming for one of us,
25:09we'd try and hint at it, like, subtly.
25:12Yeah.
25:12Would you?
25:13Yeah.
25:14Oh, I love this.
25:15It's brilliant.
25:17I feel like Jessie was hinting at it more with Ross
25:19than you are.
25:20It's like, Ross is not a traitor, Steven.
25:22Yeah.
25:23Because you may have had your girlfriend in there,
25:25but Jessie was your protector.
25:27Clearly.
25:27Jessie, Jessie.
25:28Jessie's a new family member.
25:30Yeah.
25:30Oh, that's so nice.
25:32Jessie, do you think if you'd known
25:34that Ross and Ellie were in a relationship,
25:35if it came out while they were both still in there,
25:37do you think it would have changed the way you voted
25:39or built alliances?
25:40No, because I just liked both of them anyway,
25:48trusted both of them.
25:49It would have probably helped us to kind of group up
25:52a little bit more.
25:54No, I don't think it would have changed
25:55because I just love both of you very much.
25:58Talk us through the netty situation
25:59and what that was like for both of you.
26:01Like for me, I was just, my mind was spinning
26:04because it was obviously not part of the plan.
26:07I had never expected that twist for one of Ross's
26:11old friends to be in the game.
26:13So I was just like, oh my God, what's going on?
26:16Did you get a chance to talk about that privately?
26:20Like semi-priv...
26:21Like Ross was able to talk to me
26:24while also talking to other people.
26:26That's good.
26:27Saying, oh, I've just seen my old friend
26:29and they're from 15 years ago
26:31and they're a friend of this friend.
26:33Just a friend!
26:38I stopped playing the Traitors game at that point
26:41and I was literally just playing
26:42we're going home after this.
26:45I know how I made myself look to the rest of the guys there.
26:49I was fighting for my life then
26:50because I was like, this is as innocent as it looks.
26:53Yeah, yeah.
26:54Didn't look.
26:56Didn't look innocent at all.
26:58She was excited to see you.
27:00She was.
27:01She was.
27:01She was.
27:01But obviously we've spoken to Nettie
27:03and she was like, I don't know why I ran at him like that.
27:05I was just like, I guess you're so worried
27:07that's the first day
27:08and suddenly you see someone that you know
27:10you're going to immediately be like, oh my God, this is wild.
27:12But yeah.
27:13Fair play to you, man.
27:14Because I would have messed up straight away.
27:16Yeah.
27:16I would have literally went, no, no, no.
27:18That's me actual girlfriend.
27:20Honestly.
27:20Put the cameras.
27:21That's me actual.
27:22This is not what it looks like.
27:24How's it been, Ross, seeing Ellie carry on playing the game without you?
27:28Now you've seen the episodes.
27:29Really exciting.
27:30I think she's done really well.
27:31I was so shocked at how well you did in some of the challenges.
27:34And so, no, no, no, no.
27:36Honestly, I've been watching as a fan
27:38and really impressed actually, to be fair to you.
27:40So just to clarify,
27:42you thought she was going to be really bad?
27:44Honestly, yeah.
27:45No, no, no.
27:46To be fair to you.
27:46Yeah, yeah, yeah.
27:47Wow.
27:47That's where the shock comes from.
27:48Ellie, what do you think about that?
27:49Oh, well, no.
27:50He's taking me to a few training sessions so he knows.
27:53This is not a real couple.
27:55These are actors.
27:55This is mad.
27:57This is mad.
27:58I'm trying me hardest.
27:59I think I know the answer to this.
28:00If you and Rosie were not a famous couple already
28:02and you went into the traitors
28:03and had to hide your relationship,
28:05do you think you'd be able to do it?
28:06Piece of piss.
28:09It would just be like,
28:10why do those random people hate each other?
28:15Well, that's it for part one,
28:16but the conversation continues right now on BBC Sounds.
28:19We've got more from Chris, Kaz, Jesse, Ellie and Ross
28:22with extra stories, secrets and predictions.
28:25Scan the QR code on screen
28:26or head straight to BBC Sounds.
28:27I'll be back after episode 10
28:29where I'll be joined by former faithful Kate Garroway
28:31and series three winners Jake and Leanne
28:33for more behind the scenes discussions here on Uncloaked.
28:37Thanks again to Chris, Ramsey, Kaz
28:38and of course Jesse, Ellie and Ross.
28:40I'm Ed Gamble.
28:41Stay faithful.
28:46So who'll get that dagger?
28:48We'll find out Wednesday at 8.
28:51Snakes.
28:52Why did it have to be snakes?
28:53They could be hiding above the bedroom.
28:55Amanda and Alan's Greek job next.
28:57While Jennifer Lawrence is in a fight for her life
28:59over on BBC Three.
29:01Now, The Hunger Games, Marking Jay, part one.
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