00:00Can I just start by asking you a very personal and human question?
00:0347 years ago was when your father was toppled,
00:07when the forces of Ayatollah Khomeini came to power
00:11and declared on February 11th, 1979, the first Islamic Republic.
00:17Where were you at the time? What were you thinking?
00:20Did you think, as your father and mother and other siblings were leaving the country,
00:25that this was it forever, or what?
00:27Well, I actually was in Lubbock, Texas, undergoing pilot training when the revolution happened.
00:34The plan was for me to return to Iran after a year of training
00:37and perhaps go to the military academy and continue my formation.
00:43My parents left Iran January 16th of 1979,
00:47so basically that was the beginning of our forced exile,
00:50and I never got to return to Iran.
00:52And ever since, it's been an odyssey of exile.
00:56And when my father passed away in Egypt in the summer of 1980,
01:01I was practically engaged into the politics of Iran,
01:06opposition politics, that is obviously, to the current regime.
01:10So it's been 47 years and counting now.
01:12So clearly a lot of people in this room,
01:14a lot of certainly Western leaders, maybe others,
01:18they've always had a very, very rough relationship
01:20with the current government of Iran, with the Islamic Republic.
01:24And every time there is a protest, and there have been many every time,
01:28they and the Iranian exiles essentially say,
01:31this is it.
01:32This is the time that it's going to happen.
01:34I remember being there in 2009 over a disputed election,
01:37and I was with the people as they were running in the streets saying,
01:41it's going to happen this time, it's going to happen this time.
01:43That was inside Iran.
01:45What do you think made this December-January protest different, bigger, more intense?
01:52You know, for all of us who have been involved in the struggle
01:56for liberty and freedom against this regime,
01:59and as you pointed, there have been many upheavals
02:02and perhaps unsuccessful campaigns in the sense that the regime is still standing.
02:07But the resolve and perseverance of Iranians have continued.
02:12In the latest uprising, which was, of course, the Women's Life Freedom Movement,
02:16we saw to what extent Iranians from all walks of life,
02:19from the four corners of Iran, including, of course, the diaspora,
02:23were supporting that.
02:24But I think something that is definitely the game changer,
02:29if I could call it that,
02:30and by the same token, the frequency of these protests increased over the years.
02:35If they were separated the first time,
02:37I'm thinking about the first upheaval of students during the Khatami era,
02:41all the way through the Green Movement in 2009,
02:46and all the way to the last few years,
02:48we've seen that the repetition and frequency of these uprisings
02:51became more and more and shorter and shorter.
02:54And, of course, this time, well beyond a protest
02:58because of economic circumstances, what have you,
03:01when people start chanting death to the dictator,
03:03that means they're fed up with the regime.
03:05They want political change.
03:06They want fundamental change.
03:08They no longer believe that by reform we can achieve that end,
03:12that this regime simply doesn't allow for any kind of process
03:16allowing for people to decide whether or not
03:18they reject the current government they have.
03:20So we are forced into revolt,
03:22and we started this revolt in the last few months.
03:25We saw how many people were chanting these slogans
03:28and came to the streets, only to be faced with a severe repression
03:33that led to, unfortunately, a genocide-level reaction by the regime,
03:39shooting people on the street with military weaponry,
03:43chasing people in hospitals,
03:44finishing them up shooting a final shot in their heads on their hospital beds.
03:51Women are currently being raped in prison.
03:53Soldiers are being arrested and executed for refusing to cooperate with the regime
03:58in the repressive of people.
03:59This is really something that is right under our eyes.
04:02There's a sea of blood that separates today Iranian people with this regime.
04:06So if you ask me whether this time the nation is fed up and ready to act,
04:10they are.
04:11What we do need, however, is an equalizing factor
04:14because we saw how the regime treated its own citizens.
04:17That's where I think a lot of Iranians inside and outside hope
04:20that an intervention that will neutralize the regime instrument of repression
04:26will finally give us an opportunity for a final shot.
04:29And what does that look like?
04:30Is that intervention by the United States,
04:33certainly even now, I know people are saying inside Iran,
04:37certainly everybody outside Iran,
04:38that they are waiting for President Trump to actually deliver on what he said.
04:43Remember, he said, seize your institutions, help is on the way, etc.
04:48And it didn't happen.
04:49Well, not yet.
04:50And I think the reason it hasn't is perhaps because, first of all,
04:54mobilizing for it is not an easy affair.
04:56We have to consider many aspects.
04:57But most importantly, I think President Trump realizes
04:59that he needs to convince the whole world
05:01that I've given a diplomatic solution or diplomatic effort the maximum chance.
05:08We have to see to what extent Iranians from their side
05:12are willing to settle for what has been asked.
05:14I don't see it very likely that they will actually come even close to what are the demands,
05:19which will then say, look, my diplomatic means we haven't managed to get it done,
05:24so now we can move forward with that.
05:26Are you yourself in touch with the senior American administration officials?
05:30Is there a sense that they are also in this with you, so to speak,
05:36that they also actually want to see regime change?
05:39Because, you know, the latest statement from President Trump,
05:42after meeting with the Israeli Prime Minister just this week,
05:45he basically said, where are we here?
05:49He said, there was nothing definitive reached in this meeting
05:52other than I insisted that negotiations with Iran continue
05:55to see whether or not a deal can be consummated.
05:58If it can, I let the Prime Minister know that will be my preference.
06:02So no talk about the people or regime change.
06:06How did you read that?
06:08Again, I think for what is obviously an attempt to say,
06:13let's try to resolve this diplomatically,
06:15but at the same time, I think President Trump realizes
06:18that the Iranian people have been very clear in their ask for support.
06:22They actually believed in his promise of help is near, hanging there.
06:27And that's a very important position to take.
06:29There's a lot at stake in terms of maintaining face vis-à-vis that expectation.
06:34But never mind my conversations with the U.S. administration,
06:38or for that matter, European politicians.
06:40The most important conversation I have is with the people of Iran.
06:44And I can tell you from political prisoners, to members of civil society,
06:48to many Iranians that have been fighting the fight
06:51and have been dying on the streets,
06:53they are asking the world to intervene.
06:55We are asking for a humanitarian intervention
07:00to prevent more innocent lives being killed in the process.
07:04We need to have that support and have an equalised playing field
07:08so we have a real chance as unarmed citizens
07:11to overcome this repressive regime.
07:13You know, again, a month ago you said you were very confident
07:16that this is it for the regime.
07:18You said the planets were aligned.
07:20But as we saw, which has happened over and over again,
07:24that they come out, there's a, you know, the government allows it for a minute,
07:29and then they crack down.
07:30And they did it again incredibly swiftly and brutally,
07:33as we've all been documenting this time.
07:36I want to ask you about what you said as well.
07:38You also called on people to come out,
07:40and you told them that there would be a 50,000,
07:43I'm picking that number that you used,
07:45you know, guard of defectors and people who would save them
07:49and protect them during their demonstrations.
07:52Of course, that didn't happen,
07:53and they were alone, and they were slaughtered.
07:56So why did you say that?
07:59What was it based on?
08:00And who are the people that you say are defecting?
08:04And if not then, when?
08:06When are we going to see that?
08:08Well, look, there are many elements
08:10within the regime structure
08:12that refused to carry out the orders of repression,
08:15and they were severely penalized.
08:17We know of some police officers
08:18that were executed by the regime
08:20for refusing to crack down.
08:22We know of the fact that the regime had to import
08:25from Afghanistan, from Iraq, from Lebanon,
08:28elements that were not even Iranian citizens
08:30to do the dirty job.
08:32That, to me, is a sign of desperation,
08:33knowing that they were pushed back.
08:35They panicked, they shut down the Internet,
08:37and in the darkest of night, they did what they did.
08:39To a point that today you have the Chancellor of Germany
08:42saying that this regime has lost complete legitimacy.
08:45So maybe finally, the changing factor
08:48will be shifting from a four-decade-long policy
08:51of appeasement of this regime
08:54towards we have to find a solution beyond this regime.
08:57Most importantly, because of the people calling that.
08:59Now, there has been defections already.
09:02We had a specific project, as part of the entire movement,
09:06to call for people who have to show
09:09and demonstrate their intentions to defect.
09:10Many have applied, and many have reached.
09:12Many of them are members of the military, paramilitary forces.
09:15They are also members of the civil bureaucracy.
09:18Now, there's an extent to which they can do their part,
09:21but as long as the RGC and Khamenei are sitting up there
09:24using them as an instrument of repression,
09:26even if you have defectors,
09:28it's not enough to be a shield of protection.
09:30People were chanting anyway on the streets,
09:33and we, in fact, were successful in pushing the regime back,
09:36except for the regime acted the way it did.
09:40So what do we do now?
09:41Do we have a temporary retreat?
09:42We are.
09:43But people are continuing the struggle.
09:45They are continuing to chant slogans.
09:46You see an unprecedented solidarity of Iranians
09:50in the four corners of the world
09:53demonstrating their support for them.
09:54We've seen millions of people on the streets of Iran
09:57that are doing it.
09:58Does liberty have a price?
10:00Of course it does.
10:00Are we prepared to die for this cause?
10:02Of course we are.
10:04Our whole point is that we don't have a choice but to fight.
10:08We don't have a choice but to liberate ourselves.
10:10And the only way you can minimize the struggle
10:14in terms of time and loss of human life
10:17is not to be alone in this fight.
10:19There's too much blood between us and this regime.
10:22There's no turning back for us.
10:24So the question is,
10:25is the world this time going to be on the right side of history
10:28and supporting Iranian people in their struggle for liberation?
10:31Or are we going to go back to business as usual
10:33and consider another movement that hasn't panned out?
10:37And I think a lot of it depends on the policy of straddling the fence
10:41and not committing to one side or the other.
10:43This is a choice to be made because the circumstances exist right now as we speak.
10:47There's an opportunity, there's a window that exists right now
10:50that could be the game changer for the whole world.
10:52I can really hear you trying to call on something
10:55and that something I think is intervention.
10:58It is intervention only because the Iranian people realize
11:01that this intervention will eliminate the most important stumbling block
11:07between them and liberation,
11:08which is the regime's mechanism of repression and its killing machine.
11:13What does it mean?
11:13It means IRGC, it means any other instrument of repression,
11:17it means further economic sanctions,
11:19it means cutting the regime's means to basically pay the checks of their mercenaries
11:27at the end of the day,
11:28it means putting more diplomatic pressure,
11:31expelling their diplomats,
11:32shutting down the embassy,
11:34repurposing the frozen assets that belong to the Iranian people
11:37to in fact help the Iranian people fund their campaign of labor strikes,
11:42help us with the internet and access to the world.
11:46And, you know, we have specific demands on that
11:48as to where the world can take steps that will be helpful to this campaign.
11:52Okay, so I think it's important not to forget that 47 years ago,
11:55it was your family that was overthrown,
11:57it was your father that was overthrown.
11:59There was a reason for that,
12:00and I wonder how you sort of talk about that right now,
12:08how you think about that right now.
12:09And also, like it or not,
12:13Ayatollah Khomeini had a ground game.
12:15He had the mosques,
12:17he had people who are actually religious,
12:19and he had access to the press, as you know, in Paris,
12:23and he had a real operation, you know,
12:28cassettes smuggled in with his words into the mosques in Iran.
12:33I was there during that year of the revolution,
12:35and I remember it very well.
12:36So this is all to ask you,
12:39why do you think a Pahlavi should be the leader again?
12:46And how can you do it?
12:48What kind of a plan do you have?
12:51What kind of a political ground game inside the country do you have?
12:55I mean, it's necessary, right?
12:56You've got to also be able to convince people there
13:00and to have an organization.
13:03Well, when it comes to the name,
13:04that's the name that people chanted on the streets of Iran
13:07by the millions in 31 provinces of Iran
13:10in the four corners of Iran.
13:11They called my name,
13:13they asked me to come to their support,
13:16and I have,
13:16and I accepted the challenge of leading the transition.
13:20As far as the plan that we have,
13:22we have a plan before the regime's collapse,
13:24and particularly for the transition after this regime,
13:27which is very well documented and presented.
13:30It's an open document.
13:31You can see it on the website of the Iran Prosperity Project.
13:36It talks about the initial 100 days.
13:39How do we manage that process?
13:40How do we avoid what happened in Iraq post-Satdam Hussein?
13:44Because we don't want to have the same experience of debatification.
13:48And one of the key components of this strategy
13:51is how much defection can exist,
13:53not just because we need them on the side of the people,
13:56but because,
13:57and that has been my principal position,
14:00that anyone who doesn't have their hands sold
14:02with the blood of the Iranian people
14:04should survive regime change
14:06and have a place in the future.
14:07they can be part of the solution
14:09as opposed to remain part of the problem.
14:11That's very critical to maintain a stable transition,
14:14both on the civilian side
14:15as well as the military-paramilitary side.
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