- 54 minutes ago
Union Minister Hardeep Singh Puri launched a scathing attack on Rahul Gandhi for linking him to the infamous Epstein Files and raising the issue in Parliament.
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00:00So let's raise the big questions tonight. Are the Epstein files a can of worms?
00:05Can a relationship with a convicted sexual offender be seen as purely professional?
00:12Has Hardeep Puri become an embarrassment for the Modi government?
00:16Or is Rahul Gandhi guilty of a smear campaign against Union Minister Hardeep Puri?
00:23The Epstein files are focused. Joining me now on our face-off,
00:27Nasir Hussain, Senior Congress Rajasaba MP, and Aparajita Sarangi, two-time BJP MP from the Lok Sabha.
00:35Appreciate both of you joining us. Aparajita Sarangi, to you first.
00:39That question straight direct. Hardeep Puri's email exchanged with Jeffrey Epstein,
00:46someone who was a convicted sexual offender.
00:50Are they assuming the proportion of an embarrassment for the Modi government?
00:56Or do you believe this is simply a smear campaign that you can ignore?
01:06A very good evening.
01:08You have said what I wanted to say at the end.
01:11This is all politically motivated.
01:15And Shri Hardeep Puri, we must remember, is a career diplomat turned politician.
01:21He has a huge number of years in his kitty, plethora of experience in the administration side.
01:31And now, of course, he has been the minister for quite some time.
01:34And he knows how to frame policies at the national level.
01:37So, he is a very mature diplomat turned politician.
01:41And when he says that there was some kind of professional talking three or four times with them,
01:49I think we should believe, we should trust him.
01:52You know, I mean, we should not be so...
01:55No, but why should we trust him?
01:57No, no, ma'am, why should we trust...
01:58No, no, you're saying we should trust him because, ma'am, ma'am, just a minute.
02:03Ma'am, you're saying we should trust him because he's a career diplomat who's been involved.
02:08Okay, fair enough.
02:09But just look at some of the email exchanges.
02:11They're very direct.
02:12One of them, Mr. Puri praises Epstein's taste in people.
02:16He also refers to the exotic island where, remember, the belief is that's where many of these offenses took place.
02:24The fact is, Hardeep Singh Puri today says, I had no idea of Jeffrey Epstein's being convicted.
02:31I only knew he was controversial.
02:33That cannot be a defense.
02:35It reflects poor judgment at the very least.
02:39So, I ask you again, is he an embarrassment for your government because of these email exchanges
02:44that seem to go beyond the professional and seem to talk of a very personal equation
02:50that he was attempting to build up with Epstein?
02:53And why?
02:53Why should he be building up this equation with Jeffrey Epstein in the first place?
03:04See, it is always very easy to talk about anything because, you know, you want to be in the newsprint.
03:10Now, here, there is a very senior, very erudite, very experienced politician, the minister,
03:21who has been there for quite some time, holding press conferences and saying under what circumstances he met him.
03:28So, under these, I think, in this kind of situation, I think it's always very important
03:33that we look into the issues and trust him.
03:36Now, let me tell you that he was part of the International Peace Institute, a New York-based think tank,
03:44and it was a professional exchange that took place.
03:48And he himself says, not three, but four times.
03:51See, if somebody who would have had some kind of hanky-panky or something, you know, something to hide,
03:59would not come out and say, no, I have met him three and four times.
04:02I mean, I really like the way he handled the press conference, or rather, he conducted the press conference from
04:09his own side.
04:09So, he's definitely an asset for the government and not a liability, not an embarrassment at all.
04:14And as far as Rahul Gandhiji is concerned, he did raise this issue even on the floor of the house
04:21in the Lok Saban,
04:22where he did so, I was very much present there.
04:25See, the point remains that Rahul Gandhiji is a habitual offender, if I can say so, 110 CRPC.
04:35I don't desist from saying this.
04:37Because, you know, he loves to indulge in baseless criticism.
04:41He never actually, you know, substantiates his claims, whatever he has been saying.
04:47He talked about Pegasus.
04:48You know what happened about Pegasus.
04:50He talked about the Rafale deal.
04:52And about Rafale deal, we are aware of the fact that he got reprimanded by the Supreme Court.
04:58He talked about the China border issue, that, you know, we have surrendered to China,
05:02our territories have gone, and ultimately, not an inch was lost.
05:06Even Narwane has said that, the army chief.
05:09So, I think Rahul Gandhiji, being a habitual offender, would be doing this because he wants to remain relevant.
05:15And we are well aware of the fact that Congress never performed so badly in the last 140 years,
05:24when Rahul Gandhiji has been the LOP and he has been kind of indirectly holding the reins of the Congress.
05:32We know what's happening to the Congress.
05:34So, he indulges in this kind of talks.
05:37We need to ignore all these statements.
05:39You're saying he's indulging?
05:41Ma'am, you're saying he's indulging in sensationalism to remain relevant.
05:45I want to still focus on the facts.
05:47Hardeep Singh Puri refers to Jeffrey Epstein as my friend in an October 4, 2014 email.
05:54He seeks his advice on meeting with Reid Hoffman of LinkedIn.
05:58You have to tell me, how do you explain this level of familiarity with a convicted sex offender?
06:03And what is the specific advice that Hardeep Puri should seek that couldn't come from legitimate diplomatic channels?
06:11That's the question.
06:12The question is, at the end of the day, Hardeep Singh Puri in these emails comes across as someone who
06:18is trying to woo Jeffrey Epstein
06:23and through him get to Reid Hoffman.
06:25Why should he be doing any of this?
06:27And all these years later, across many countries, all those associated with Jeffrey Epstein are finding themselves in the line
06:36of fire.
06:37Why should Hardeep Singh Puri not be able to provide more specific answers?
06:45Mr. Puri has repeatedly said that his interactions with Epstein were professional and limited.
06:53And these took place decades ago when he was a diplomat and had nothing to do with Epstein's criminal conduct.
07:00Now, being a diplomat, being a foreign service officer, you as part of a particular organization, you get in touch
07:10with so many number of people.
07:12One does not have to do anything with the antecedents of a person concerned.
07:16And, you know, you meet at different levels.
07:18You talk about different things.
07:19You don't call them your friend.
07:20I don't think that there is any kind of, I would say, criminality to be attached to it.
07:26I don't think this is absolutely having any kind of substance.
07:31And Rahul Gandhiji is a past master in the art of scooting and running away.
07:37He is a hit and run master.
07:39And this is what we call him.
07:41Aate hain, kuch bolte hain, chale jate hain.
07:44The parliament now is not in session for a couple of days.
07:48You will see, I am telling you, in a day or two, he will just be flying to some other
07:52country.
07:52He will not be in India.
07:54So, again, he will come back around 8th March, 9th March when we start the discussion.
07:58He will again create a flutter with some statement.
08:01Some flex.
08:02Yeah.
08:03Yeah.
08:04Please continue.
08:06Okay.
08:07You know, I am asking you questions more on Hardi Puri.
08:10You are switching it to Rahul Gandhi.
08:11Let me take those answers, though, that you have given to Nasir Hussain.
08:16You have heard what Aparajita Sarangi is saying.
08:18She is saying that Rahul Gandhi is running a smear campaign.
08:22Hit and run campaign that Rahul Gandhi is trying to create a perception through innuendo
08:28that Hardi Puri had something to hide.
08:32The truth of the matter is that there is no evidence of criminal misconduct, if I may say so,
08:39on the part of Hardi Puri.
08:40It's not that he's gone on the so-called exotic island of Jeffrey Epstein.
08:45He is having conversations with him.
08:47Yes, he is calling him my friend.
08:49Yes, he is seeking his advice.
08:50But the truth of the matter is, where is the evidence of criminal misconduct?
08:55And is what Aparajita Sarangi is saying, Rahul Gandhi is engaging in a smear campaign.
09:00Your response?
09:05Rajdeep, I think instead of answering the questions you posed to the BJP spokesperson, she was speaking
09:13and diverting the issue and she was all about like Rahul Gandhi, hit and run.
09:19Rahul Gandhi is hitting them in every session and the people actually who are running are
09:24Bharatiya Janta Party.
09:25And in this session, it was not only Bharatiya Janta Party MPs, but also the Prime Minister
09:31himself who ran away from Lok Sabha without replying to the House on the motion of thanks
09:38from the President's address.
09:40She mentioned Pegasus, Rafael, and I would also like to add Hindenburg.
09:46I would like to also add Panama Files.
09:49I would like to also add Chinese scuffles that is happening on the border and Chinese taking
09:56over lots of our land, etc., etc.
09:58The moot question is, we are an opposition party.
10:01When there is an issue, when there is something in the public domain, then when there are some
10:06revelations happening across the world concerning our polity, our economy, our country, it is
10:12the duty of the opposition party, parties or opposition MPs to raise the issue when they
10:18are in session.
10:19So Rahul Gandhi, well within its rights, as the leader of opposition now, earlier as the
10:25MP from the opposition party and leader of opposition party.
10:30He can raise issues, Mr. Nasser Hussain.
10:33He raised several issues.
10:34He can raise issues, he has every right to raise issues, Mr. Hussain.
10:40But when you link it to US trade deal, when you link it to Narendra Modi, when you suggest
10:44there is criminal misconduct that the Prime Minister is under a chokehold from the Americans,
10:51then you are asking people to make a leap of belief in what Rahul Gandhi is saying is the
10:58truth.
10:58I can only go by what the Epstein files show.
11:01Epstein files show, Hardeep Singh Puri on a few occasions was in touch with Jeffrey Epstein.
11:06You could call it error of judgment.
11:09The BJP is saying where is the criminal misconduct that Rahul Gandhi seems to allege?
11:16Then, Radeep, the whole problem with the Bharati Janta Party, they don't want to discuss any issues that
11:23are raised by the opposition.
11:25Was there a discussion on Pegasus?
11:27Was there a discussion on Rafale?
11:28Was there a discussion on Hindenburg files?
11:31Was there a discussion on Chinese aggression?
11:33Was there a discussion on Panama files?
11:35Was there any discussion?
11:36See, why is the government scared of discussion?
11:41When the opposition poses questions, raises issues, they have to be ready for discussion.
11:47The problem with the BJP spokesperson is they want to brand Rahul Gandhi as someone who
11:54does a guerrilla warfare, comes, attacks and run away.
11:57That is not the issue.
11:58He is there.
11:59He wants a discussion.
12:00Opposition wants a discussion.
12:02It is not just Rahul Gandhi.
12:04The entire opposition is asking for a discussion.
12:05So, now, in the trade deal, when the entire country is on a back foot, we all know how
12:13it will impact our farmers.
12:14We all know how it will impact our economy.
12:17We all know how the US president is dictating terms.
12:20He is telling us that we can't buy cheap oil from Russia.
12:23He is telling, in the future, he will tell you can't buy oil from Iran, from other Gulf
12:28countries, from other countries.
12:29We'll have to buy only from Venezuela.
12:31When he is putting up tweets, on his tweets, we are getting to know when the parliament is
12:35session.
12:36It is the duty of the government to inform the parliament as to what is happening with
12:41the trade deal.
12:42Instead of that, we get to know from the US president's tweet.
12:45Can I bring you back?
12:46And now, when the trade and combat...
12:48Can I bring you back to the Epstein files?
12:50I want to...
12:51We wanted...
12:52Rajiv, Rajiv.
12:55Rajiv, just one second.
12:56We wanted clarification on the trade deal.
12:59Nothing has happened.
13:00We want to know why is this government bending, kneeling and succumbing to the dictates of the
13:06US president and signing such an important...
13:08You've made that point.
13:09I want to know why...
13:11No, no.
13:12I...
13:12Sir, my discussion is on the Epstein files.
13:14Sir, my discussion is on the Epstein files, not on the US-India trade deal.
13:19Rahul Gandhi and your other leaders like Pawan Khera are suggesting that Hardy Puri has something
13:26to hide, that Hardy Puri, according to Pawan Khera, his continuance in office is untenable
13:32because of his email exchanges with Jeffrey Epstein.
13:37That's the point I want to clear answer.
13:39Why is the Congress saying that Hardy Puri should resign?
13:46See, see, see, I'll tell you something, Rajiv.
13:49When certain...
13:50See, these revelations that are coming from different parts of the world on different issues,
13:55they are not something which the Congress party has gone and dug.
13:59We are not digging into something and bringing out.
14:01This is something which has come in the normal course or through revelation through some other
14:07sources and which is there in public domain.
14:09When they are there in public domain, it is the duty of the opposition party to raise the
14:13issue, as simple as that.
14:14And the party that is there in power is to defend themselves.
14:17That can only happen when they allow a discussion.
14:19And who is not allowing a discussion?
14:21It is the government that is not allowing the discussion.
14:23Can I take this point?
14:25It is as simple as that.
14:26I've taken your point, sir.
14:28Can I?
14:28Yes, please.
14:29I've taken your point.
14:30Let me take that to Aparajita Sarangi.
14:32Yeah, Aparajita Sarangi, the point that is being made by the Congress MPs, you don't
14:36want a discussion.
14:37You don't want a discussion on Rafael.
14:39You didn't want a discussion on Chinese incursions.
14:43You didn't want a discussion for the longest time on COVID.
14:46Anything that is seen to embarrass the government, you don't want a discussion.
14:49And then you say, we are going to file a privilege motion.
14:52The truth is, you ask Rahul Gandhi to authenticate the charges.
14:56Rahul Gandhi is putting forward the Department of Justice report on the U.S. Department of
15:01Justice on Epstein.
15:02In that report, Ani Lombani is seen to be virtually again influence peddling, almost seeking
15:08appointments through Epstein for Delhi's leadership.
15:12Hardeep Puri is seemingly in some kind of a relationship to, is trying to get Jeffrey
15:20Epstein to get him appointments or get Reid Hoffman through Jeffrey Epstein to come to
15:26India.
15:26Now, is Rahul Gandhi not entitled to ask questions on it in Parliament?
15:30The moment he asks questions, the BJP seems to, he seems to get under your skin.
15:42My esteemed colleague from the Congress was deviating from the topic today.
15:48He was beating around the bush because he knows he doesn't have answer to your questions.
15:54He has absolutely no evidence, no substance to actually, you know, kind of qualify whatever
16:04Rahul Gandhi has been saying about Epstein files about Hardeep Puri ji.
16:08Now, as far as Hardeep Puri ji is concerned, he called a press conference and he has said
16:14very candidly that when he was a diplomat, he had certain number of exchanges, not three,
16:20but four times, and he had nothing to do with Epstein's criminal conduct.
16:25Now, having heard from him and government of India supporting him in this matter, saying
16:34that it is nothing and you know, just a minute, ma'am, just a minute, ma'am, just a minute.
16:39Hardeep Singh Puri in that press conference claimed of meeting Epstein as part of a delegation
16:45from the IPI.
16:46However, emails show him having one-on-one meetings at Epstein's residence, February 2015,
16:52January 2016, May 2017, June 2017, including requests to drop by for a chat and deliver a book.
17:00Now, this seems to me to be a relationship that is not strictly professional.
17:05And this is therefore a relationship with a convicted sexual offender that your union minister was in.
17:11How can you not, how can you just brush it aside?
17:15You're a woman, you can't casually just brush it aside.
17:20You, you just said seems to me.
17:23Now, seems to me is not the answer, Hardeep.
17:27Pegasus also, they tried to convince the entire world they failed.
17:31And you know, we don't have to have discussion.
17:33The Supreme Court reprimanded them.
17:35In Rafale, the same thing happened.
17:37China border issue, same thing happens.
17:39So, my point is that here there is no evidence, no substantive evidence.
17:44And as far as this particular person is concerned, Epstein is concerned,
17:49Sri Hardipuriji actually does not want to get into it because he says he was a diplomat.
17:54And as a diplomat, you meet hundreds and thousands of people.
17:59And you don't check the antecedent of every person.
18:02You don't do one-on-one meetings, ma'am, with convicted sexual offenders.
18:06I'm sorry, diplomats don't do one-on-one meetings with convicted sexual offenders and call them, my dear friend.
18:15And as far as Rahul Gandhi is concerned, I want to give a final word here to you.
18:22Sound and fury is signifying nothing.
18:27Okay, let me bring in, therefore, one last time, Nasir Hussain.
18:31Nasir Hussain, sound and fury signifying nothing.
18:34Parliament session gets over, Rahul Gandhi will forget about it.
18:38The Congress will also move on to the next issue and the issue will be forgotten.
18:42Are you all serious about raising these issues in and outside Parliament or is it spit-and-run politics final
18:50answer?
18:51Do you want Hardipuri to step aside?
18:54Can India investigate Epstein files that's already being done in the United States?
19:03Rajdeep, again, I'll stick on to my stand.
19:07Our BJP spokesperson again and again mentioning Rahul Gandhi, calling him names, saying that he doesn't have a right to
19:15raise issues.
19:15If somebody is well-versed with parliamentary democracy, it is very clear the leaders of the opposition, MPs from the
19:23opposition, it is their right to raise issues in the parliament.
19:26And those issues are not something which they have created or dug up from somewhere.
19:32These are the issues which have been revealed by somewhere or these are the issues that have been there in
19:37public domain.
19:38And she was mentioning about courts.
19:41That means the BJP spokesperson and the BJP thinks that parliament is not the right place to discuss issues concerning
19:48the security of the nation.
19:49And the courts will have to deal with it.
19:52And in none of the cases she mentioned, Congress had gone to court.
19:55Somebody must have gone to the court.
19:56Congress wants to debate and discuss these important issues in the parliament.
20:00We will continue to do so.
20:03Rahul Gandhi will continue to do so.
20:05And Rahul Gandhi will continue to raise the issues in the parliament.
20:08I want to speak for 30 seconds.
20:10Thank you so much.
20:11Okay.
20:12Yes, yes, yes.
20:12Take your 30 seconds, Aparijita.
20:14Quickly.
20:15Can I come in?
20:1530 seconds.
20:16Yes.
20:17See, there was budget session and number of hours had been earmarked to talk about the budget.
20:24He talked about everything except the budget.
20:27This is one part.
20:27He did not even know what were the components of the budget, what were the countenance of the budget.
20:32We had 18 hours here marked for a motion of thanks on presidential address.
20:37He chose to talk about something else in Indochina and a particular unpublishment.
20:42Now here, in the statements of Rahul Gandhi, there is no consistency, no conviction.
20:48And as far as this particular issue is concerned, no evidence and no substance.
20:53You made that, ma'am, you made that point earlier.
20:56You made that point earlier.
20:57Last 10, let me give the same 30 seconds now to Nasir Hussain.
21:01Only 30 seconds.
21:02I want to say emphatically that we really need to stop this.
21:05No, no, ma'am, you made your point.
21:07Let him have his 30 seconds.
21:08Your 30 seconds are up.
21:13Rajiv, the point is very clear.
21:15During the discussion on the president's speech, anybody can raise any issue that has been raised by the president.
21:22There, we tried raising issues.
21:24The party that is there in power ran away from discussion, including the prime minister, didn't answer to any of
21:30the questions that were raised there.
21:32Point number one.
21:32Point number two, the India-U.S. trade deal is something to do with the economy.
21:38Budget is something to do with the economy.
21:40The budget, no, just one second.
21:42Budget is something to do with the economy.
21:45And when there is a hidden agenda and the government of the day surrenders, deals and succumbs to a foreign
21:51power and signs some deal,
21:53which is not in the interest of our economy, then we will have to raise it.
21:57Thank you so much.
22:00Okay, Nasir Hussain, Aparjita Sarangi for joining me on the debate.
22:05I appreciate you joining me.
22:08Thanks very much.
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