- 12 hours ago
The Beauty Queen And The Catfish - Season 1 Episode 3 - Convicting The Catfish
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00:00I had a message on Facebook of this random woman saying do you still use this account she tried
00:18calling me and I was hesitant to answer but she was so persistent and then she'd send a photograph
00:25of myself asking whether this is me so I immediately thinking then why is this woman got a photo of me
00:33what was her name Abby Draper you don't understand what's just about to happen no I was not oh my god
00:45that is hamlet go on to Facebook typed her name in and then her picture came up and I was like holy
00:53fuck she works on my granddad's ward as a nurse I was in the police station for about four or five
01:01hours their words to me were catfishing is not a crime and then Adele had started using tinder swipe
01:08right and it came up a match I was like oh Matthew consistently asked for explicit nude photos it
01:18wasn't just happening again but it was actually getting worse I instinctively knew this was a big
01:25story there was a Jekyll and Hyde side to Adele Rennie Adele was there Adele was watching me she's
01:34not a catfish she's just a monster is there anything going to stop this girl
01:40girl
01:57It was like a good year, year and a half since I'd first reported Adele to the police.
02:19Their words to me were, well, she's not done anything criminal.
02:25But we know that she's stopping people.
02:27She was physically following people.
02:29It's not just behind the computer.
02:33It did make me worry.
02:34Total anxiety the full time.
02:36We were just sitting ducks and nothing was really happening.
02:38So what's our next move?
02:47A lot of time had passed since Abby Draper contacted the newspaper.
02:52And I knew straight away that this was going to be a front page story.
02:56The police had been investigating allegations made by three different women.
03:01But as time went by they found many more victims.
03:04And the case just continued to get bigger and bigger.
03:10And then one day I get a phone call from the police.
03:13It was like a moment where I was like, finally, like, something's happening.
03:20I remember coming home from school and there was a police car in the front of the house.
03:33Never in a million years could have imagined that I was about to walk into, you know, Adele being arrested and the two detectives sitting on the couch.
03:50They were searching the whole house, they took all of our electronics, they took my phone, they took the old laptop and just anything that Adele would have access to, they took.
04:06They had told us what she was being accused of and totally hard to believe because you never have expected for Adele to be in trouble.
04:19But especially not for charges like that.
04:21I went to the PlayStation with my dad to collect her.
04:42How did she seem?
04:45Very teary. Very teary.
04:52She was struck.
04:53She denied it?
04:54Oh, yeah.
04:59There was no reason for me to doubt Adele.
05:02I've never, ever seen Adele do anything to hurt anyone.
05:07She was a great big sister.
05:10She was happy.
05:12She had her own house.
05:14She had a job and a good job.
05:17I thought, no, it's got to be a mistake.
05:19It's got to be someone else.
05:21I got a phone call from Kilmarnock police station, would I be willing to give a statement? And they briefly had just told me, like, what had kind of went on.
05:33They did say to me that it looked like I was her favourite because I received basically the most gifts. I thought to myself, hang on a second, I received the most gifts? Like, how many was there?
05:46When it reached that point where Adele Rennie had been charged, I dropped what I was doing. And I just went straight down to Kilmarnock Sheriff Court press office. And then they handed over the charges. And it was pages and pages of what I was doing.
06:01This is a copy of the papers that I saw at Kilmarnock Sheriff Court. So there are a total of 18 complainers. There were 27 charges. Just one offence and it's something that I saw at Kilmarnock Sheriff Court.
06:20This is a copy of the papers that I saw at Kilmarnock Sheriff Court. So there are a total of 18 complainers. There were 27 charges. Just one offence on its own is shocking. But to see 27 of them, I had to count through several times to make sure I had it clear in my head just how many victims there were.
06:41Charges include allegations of stalking, alleged offences committed under the Communications Act. She's accused of perverting the course of justice.
06:48In most of the cases, there's a sexual element to them. Some of the cases, the women have actually participated in sexual activity and filmed it and sent it.
06:58Yeah, that's quite a charge sheet.
07:01We'll probably never see anything like it again, to be honest.
07:03I've been in the cybersecurity industry for over 20 years. We open around two and a half thousand cases a month. Most don't get to court. Most don't get investigated.
07:21Last year, the conviction rate for stalkers was 1.7%. It's a horrendous experience for the victim going to court, being involved in this process for a very low chance of success.
07:36You know, if your perpetrator doesn't go to prison, then how safe do you feel?
07:43I wasn't able to go to court, but I had the girls from the 007 chat. They were my eyes and my ears. So I remember on that day, just being on my phone, waiting.
08:04I do remember the first time I saw Adele Rennie in court in person, immaculately dressed, hair in perfect condition. She walked into the courtroom, supported by her family. And there wasn't a hint in her demeanour that she was facing real jeopardy.
08:26All the victims are made aware that if Adele pleads not guilty, then anyone involved basically all needs to go to court and give evidence.
08:33How did you feel about the idea that you might have to face her in court?
08:38Didn't really want to do that because you were having to relive it all, especially in front of people and in front of her. There was a part of me that thought she's going to want to see me up in court and she's going to want to watch me suffer.
08:51I have no interest in bringing this back into my life. I didn't want to stand in a courtroom and tell the story again.
08:58There was just a lot of apprehension. There was a lot of unknown. Like, we know the evidence is stacked against you. Like, why would you want to plead not guilty?
09:08There comes a point where you hear the Crown's narration. That's a description of the offending, a more detailed description of offending.
09:22In this case, that narrative was lengthy, almost impossible to take in. The scale of it, the breadth and the length and the complexity of her offending and the imagination she had to create one fictional story after another.
09:41Her demeanour changed. Adele sat with her head bowed. She must have known that her fate was sealed. And she agreed to plead guilty to 18 charges.
09:56You'd think that you would be relieved because she's pleading guilty. However, I'm sitting there knowing fine, well, she might not get prison time.
10:10I remember saying, like, I really hope she doesn't just get community service. She's a female. She looks like a nice person. Like, she looks friendly.
10:18She could get released there and then. So I'm still shitting myself.
10:24Later on in the afternoon, I got a phone call and I just remember having, like, loads and loads of adrenaline.
10:31Like, do you know that way when it's like you feel sick, like the pit of your stomach?
10:35I answered not knowing am I going to get told something that I want to hear or am I going to be disappointed?
10:40The sheriff who sentenced Adele Rennie made it absolutely clear that her offending warranted a prison sentence and a strong one at that.
10:55She was given 22 months. She was placed on the Sex Offenders Register for 10 years.
11:02That's when you hear the jangle of the handcuffs and then the click when it goes round her wrist.
11:13She wept in the dock. She wasn't going to be going home with her mum or her family members that day.
11:19She left the courtroom by another door which was going to take her for her first day in a prison cell.
11:27I thought finally we've got justice and then I found out her sentence would be automatically halved.
11:39So realistically, our sentence was then 11 months.
11:42What did you think about the sentence?
11:44I don't think it's long enough. I think she needs to be in prison basically for years.
11:49For everything that she put me through that time, everything she put all the other giggles through that time for me was not enough.
11:55It's nothing. She's ruined people's lives.
12:00It was a horrible feeling to know that she was going to be out that soon.
12:06Because she pled guilty to the charges, she never got to like stand up and be asked like, why have you done this?
12:13So all of us are pretty much just left with no answers whatsoever.
12:16What question would you ask her if you could ask her no question?
12:20I just want to go up to her. Just like, why? Why are you doing it?
12:24Just tell us why. Why does she want to be David Graham or any of the other aliases that she used?
12:29What are you getting from this and what's the point? Why did you start doing all this?
12:33Definitely I want to know why.
12:35Do you think she knows why?
12:37Yeah. Yeah, I think she knows why.
12:42I think she knows why.
12:44When I came out the courtroom, I was desperate to tell the story. I thought people need to know this. The first thing I did was speak to the news desk. The minute I told them that the guilty plea was there and that there were 18 charges and 10 victims, the front page was cleared.
13:03It goes massive. It's all over the newspapers and then getting shared on social media. It just went viral.
13:13Okay, so female nurse jailed for fake male doctor scam.
13:18Rennie admitted 18 charges involving 10 victims of stalking, causing fear and alarm.
13:23I read the article and then I seen all the other comments from all the other girls saying like me as well, like he spoke to me.
13:30Then I realised just how deep and dark it got with them. You know, then I sat back and was like, oh wow, I got off really lightly.
13:40Adele Rennie's victims included a 17-year-old girl she met on the dating app Tinder. The 27-year-old convinced some of them to send intimate photos of themselves and engage in explicit conversations.
13:52Were you shocked at the sexual offences?
13:53Yeah, I think it was probably even like the amount of sexual offences. Like it wasn't just maybe a one or two persons. It was almost like nearly half of the victims were involved in that type of way.
14:04If anyone that had sent Adele like any images of themselves, she would also use the fact that she had them to threaten them.
14:12Looking at the court case and Adele Rennie's background, there's a complex web of motivations and personality traits and reasons for doing this that all need to be looked at in combination.
14:29A lot of sex crimes are not really necessarily about sex. They're more about control. And enjoying the fact that you are getting them to engage in something that they're not consenting to because consent has to be informed. There is a huge amount of control in that level of deception.
14:46Adele was 100% trying to control me. It's not about love. No. This person's not ever been in love with any of these women. Never in love with me. This all been about control, power. It was, in my opinion, a sick game.
15:05That's where you really have to look at the person and think, why do that to someone? What's your motive?
15:16When was the first time you heard the word catfish?
15:27Probably when this all came out.
15:31How are you feeling?
15:33Quite weepy, actually.
15:39It's just a horrible feeling.
15:40You just can't believe that your daughter's going into one of the vans and getting taken off to a prison.
15:48You know, she's in the sex offenders register, so...
15:52You know, it's just so complex that it's very hard to make any sense of it.
15:59Was that the hardest bit for you, her being on that register?
16:01Well, it's human nature to judge, I feel, and I suppose when you hear somebody's on that, you just think of predators or, you know, paedophiles or this kind of thing.
16:14I was mortified and ashamed. I went through every emotion because it's just no... the girl we know.
16:29It's quite hard to accept.
16:31You don't want to believe that your child's capable of these kind of things.
16:37Why? Why would you do this? And what are you getting out of it?
16:44I did ask her if she was gay or is there something you need to talk about? It's absolutely fine.
16:49She said that she's not. She's not.
16:52It's hard. You just... I still can't believe it.
16:56But you just think, right, OK, we just need to get through this next year.
17:07She had been in prison, she'd done something wrong, and fair enough, we can all make a mistake, and that's her out, and let's rebuild a life.
17:29Her story had been in the papers and on social media.
17:32Well, obviously, it's a small town, so people knew what she'd done and who she was, and...
17:42Quite a scary thing, cos you don't know how people are going to react to that.
17:46Information came our way that she had been released.
17:51We thought, well, that'll be the last that we hear of Adele Rennie.
17:56But within months, it turned out that she was once again on the radar
18:00of the police and the wider authorities.
18:11And within a matter of weeks of these new allegations coming to light,
18:17she was back behind bars.
18:21Surely not.
18:22Surely you're not going to do it in the same town
18:24three months after you've got out.
18:27I just didn't expect her to ever do it again.
18:28Never mind to people that it's going to be really, really obvious,
18:31like, in your own hometown that's going to have heard the story.
18:34Why? What on earth? What is going on?
18:37Never for a minute did I think that she was going to end up back in again.
18:40So did this feel different than the previous prison sentence?
18:52I think so.
18:54She had quite a lot of support workers,
18:56and she got involved in different things in the prison.
18:58You know, she would push herself and get up and keep going,
19:04get a wee job and put her day in and put some money by.
19:08Just try and make the best of it.
19:10You just thought, you know, that this was a turning point.
19:14We were all sort of back to normal as a family.
19:32Spending Christmases together and spending birthdays together
19:37and, like, it felt like she was back to her old self.
19:41She's got a job, she's got a nice car,
19:43she's going nice wee holidays.
19:45She went away with her friends in a walking group.
19:48She just said that she felt different
19:51and was so looking forward to the future.
19:54We're on the right track now.
19:56She's definitely turned a corner.
19:59She had built her life back up again
20:03to a place where she was happy.
20:10I hadn't heard anything about Adele for a good four years.
20:13Everything's nice and calm.
20:14I started a new chapter in my life.
20:19And now I have two children.
20:21I have my own children's entertainment company now.
20:26Getting on with life.
20:28But there was always that doubt in my mind thinking,
20:31well, is she going to come out and try and do it again?
20:35Sometimes when maybe a profile will add me
20:38or something will attempt to talk to me,
20:40there is sometimes similarities
20:42and I do automatically think it's Adele.
20:44Do you think you started thinking everyone was fake?
20:46Yeah, everybody was fake.
20:48Like, everyone was fake unless I knew you were real.
20:51Like, unless I'd actually met you.
20:53Like, even to this day, like, everyone's fake until you're not.
20:56Have you ever got it wrong before about someone being a fake profile?
20:58Yeah!
21:00There was a girl called Lucy.
21:01Oh, yeah.
21:02There was so many.
21:03There was, like, a Lucy, a Rachel,
21:05and these were all profiles that I sent to the police.
21:07But Lucy wasn't fake?
21:09I think she was.
21:10Was she not? Was she real?
21:11Was she real?
21:18It was at home.
21:20I get a message from someone I know from Kilmarnock.
21:23It literally just said,
21:26who do you think this sounds like?
21:30It was a screenshot from a Facebook group called
21:33Are We Dating The Same Guy?
21:35It was a group set up for women to double-check
21:39if a man was safe or not.
21:42I join and then I look for this message
21:45and I'm reading it
21:47and I'm like...
21:50Professional job.
21:52Semi-Italian name.
21:54He was a pharmacist.
21:55He had a fancy car.
21:56He was from Newton Mearns
21:57and he loved a voice note.
21:59And I'm like, Adele, Adele, Adele, Adele.
22:02Like, every single thing.
22:03Adele, Adele, Adele.
22:04I'm aware that not every single catfish in the world
22:07is going to be Adele.
22:08But in my little world, every single catfish is Adele.
22:12I just put a comment on the original post.
22:15Just basically say this story is almost exactly the same
22:17as something that I've went through.
22:21It was enough for me to dust off my wee casebook
22:24and open it up again.
22:26And that's when I posted on Instagram.
22:28We knew there had been an accusation made.
22:35Adele had told me that someone had put an Instagram story up
22:42and tagged her in it.
22:43Something along the lines of,
22:45everyone's watching, get your popcorn out.
22:49Understood why they would suspect Adele.
22:52But I was worried.
22:56Because she had told me that if she was to go back to prison
23:03that she, yeah, that she wouldn't survive it.
23:06In that week's time, I remember Adele being very stressed
23:14and very, very on edge.
23:17I was given a phone number that belonged to Callum Crowler.
23:25And when I phoned it, I was speaking to a guy.
23:29He was saying that they had a girlfriend and blah, blah, blah.
23:35So it's a guy that's maybe having an affair or cheating or something
23:39and, like, it's genuinely a guy that's catfishing.
23:42And I left the phone call thinking,
23:45oh, fuck, it's not Adele.
23:47So you've got the wrong catfish?
23:49I've got the wrong catfish.
23:53The next day, Adele phones me.
23:55I've got the two kids in the back of the car.
23:58My heart is absolutely racing.
24:00I answered it, basically saying,
24:02why am I bringing her name up again?
24:06And this isn't her.
24:08I've got it all wrong.
24:10I need to stop saying things are her.
24:12She can't be the only catfish.
24:14From when I left the restaurant until I got home,
24:17it was just adrenaline, adrenaline, adrenaline.
24:19I'm pointing the finger back to myself.
24:21I'm the issue.
24:23I'm the one that needs to let it go.
24:25I'm obsessed with Adele.
24:27I'm trying to ruin her life.
24:33However, there's still a catfish on the loose.
24:38Why not just leave it this time?
24:43I can't sit on that.
24:45Like, I'm not going to sit here.
24:47And then the next thing I'm getting told is,
24:50oh, by the way, someone get murdered in their house.
24:52Do you know what I mean?
24:54One of the girls talking to Callum Crowler at that point
24:59was being followed.
25:01It was very much in real time.
25:03Callum Crowler had sent a Google Maps picture
25:06of where she lives and said,
25:08never have I felt rejection quite like this.
25:10I wasn't even in her situation and I was shitting myself.
25:14He also sent a photo to the victim
25:21of some random girl with blonde hair
25:24at a gig down in London.
25:26She's like laughing, she's got a drink in her hand.
25:29And because we had this photo of her,
25:31I was able to find who that person really was.
25:34I had a message on Facebook of this random woman
25:40that messaged me a photograph of myself
25:43asking whether this was me.
25:45I rang and I spoke to her and I asked her,
25:49how do you have this photo?
25:52And I asked her if she could confirm
25:54if she knew who Callum Crowler was.
25:58Never heard that name in my life, no.
26:00And I asked her, so who took that picture of you?
26:04You need to confirm to me who went to that concert with you.
26:07Because whoever took that picture
26:09isn't who they say they are.
26:11So I had a couple of videos on my phone
26:13that I sent over to her.
26:21And I pressed play on one video.
26:23Slowly it comes round.
26:26You've got to be fucking kidding me.
26:29This girl's at it again.
26:31It was kind of like that holy shit moment, like...
26:34I'm not some sort of crazy bitch.
26:36I knew it was Adele.
26:38Did you feel vindicated?
26:39Yeah.
26:40Like it was genuinely just too good to be true.
26:43And never before have we had evidence like this.
26:45And then within like 24 hours,
26:47there was a police officer at Adele's house.
26:49And then within like 24 hours,
26:51there was a police officer at Adele's house.
26:53PHONE RINGS
26:54PHONE RINGS
26:55PHONE RINGS
26:57PHONE RINGS
26:59When you get that one phone call...
27:00... news that she said she's dead.
27:02And then I said,
27:04I'll be fine.
27:06And then we'll get the police officer at Adele's house.
27:08PHONE RINGS
27:10PHONE RINGS
27:11When you get that one phone call with news that she's been arrested again, it's like
27:32chattered. Disbelief that it's happening all over again and anger. She swore to me and
27:53promised that she hadn't done anything, that she was innocent after everything to know that she
28:01had lied again, like straight to my face. Yeah. Do you have a cut off point where you're like,
28:12I've had enough? This is it, for sure. This is...
28:20This has to be it. This is my breaking point.
28:31A former female nurse who posed as a man online to target women has been convicted for a third time
28:38for similar offences. Adele Rennie's conduct was described by the Sheriff as premeditated
28:44deception designed to distress her victim.
28:54Every time this kind of like story of Adele comes about, everybody says like,
28:58she must have a mental health issue. She needs help. That's why she's doing it.
29:05You see all the comments on it. That woman needs help. Why is she back in jail?
29:10What do you think she needs? Help. Like, mental help to kind of get to the deeper root of why is she doing this?
29:18It's very hard to understand why somebody engages in this kind of behaviour. It stems from trauma,
29:24a desire for control, personality traits, like the reasons behind it are so complex.
29:28And in a situation like this, it is quite likely that it's those very early childhood experiences.
29:33They're one of the major predictors of catfishing. Because what we think of as normal when we're
29:39growing up, what we see in our lives is what we learn from. And we have a tendency to bring that into
29:46our future lives as adults, which leads to this kind of behaviour later.
29:59And that's her there, just as a newborn. Smiling away there. Lots of nice family holidays and
30:18lots of stuff we all did together. And I haven't looked at him recently because it does upset me.
30:24Who would have thought, looking at these pictures, how her life was going to turn out?
30:35If somebody said to me 10 years ago, this is where we would be, said, you know,
30:39your daughter would be in prison two or three times, I would never, never have believed it.
30:44As I say, first time, fair enough, we can all make mistakes. Maybe a second time.
30:49But when it goes beyond that, no, I've had it. I'm at the end of my tether now.
30:54You told her that? Definitely.
30:57She was allowed a phone call when she got to the prison. I was like, well, have you thought about
31:03the heart and distress that you've caused these people? What does she say to that?
31:07She would just say, you know, I'm trying to get psychological help. And she did manage to get
31:15some support. And I think, you know, it helped her to begin to understand a lot more of why this was
31:22all happening.
31:23I think she's probably opened up more recently than what she has ever done.
31:31What sort of things has she opened up about?
31:34Unfortunately, my first marriage was quite abusive and it wasn't a pleasant relationship
31:42a lot of the time. He was a good enough dad, but unfortunately, he was a drinker.
31:47So he would go in binges and I would be getting hit and things like that. And it would be happening
31:54when they were in their bed and I just thought they were sleeping. And I didn't know about it,
32:00because nothing would be said the next morning. But she has told me there has been quite a lot,
32:06the three children, you know, quite a lot that they'd heard that I didn't think they had.
32:13He loved the kids dearly, but with alcohol comes depression, although I never thought
32:23he would have taken his life.
32:28I hadn't told Adele how he'd passed away. You know, what a horrific thing to hear,
32:33even for an adult. And Adele had only been six, I think.
32:36I should come in from Sunday school, really, really upset. A child had said to her,
32:45your dad hung himself. This was just two days after it happened. I did go through
32:51a kind of guilt thing that I might have felt. Through, sorry, staying in that relationship has
33:05had a profound effect on her. And through what she's done with this, I kind of thought,
33:13is that something that, you know, I could have prevented?
33:18Some people have gone through the same trauma and they've not gone and done what Adele's done.
33:23What would you say to that? I think everybody's different now. I mean,
33:28I just don't know what somebody's going through and how they're going to react.
33:32And I know it's very hard to understand why Adele would have done all this so many times, but
33:43there's going to be something.
33:49Because of her own upbringing, she may have viewed women as being victims and vulnerable.
33:54And she created these kind of successful men who have a lot of power in society,
34:01and then only interacted with women. And so what she's doing is a coping mechanism,
34:06a maladaptive coping mechanism, but a coping mechanism for the trauma she experienced as a child.
34:30ButWhatGuessis, do you guys see who MCU has?
34:37Dear Miss Draper, the victim notification scheme?
34:44The offender's sentence started on November 15th November 2023.
34:48And they're due to be released automatically on January 13th, 2025.
34:52Basically what that means is Adele is coming out today.
34:55Hey, I just thought I'd give you a little voice note.
35:01I know I've not spoken a wee while,
35:03but it was just to let you know that I got a letter today
35:06to say that Adele was coming out of prison.
35:09Hi, I just thought I'd send you a wee voice note.
35:11I just thought I'd give you a little heads up.
35:13I won't hear anything else unless maybe she reoffends.
35:16I know police are going to check,
35:17and apart from that, we won't hear anything else.
35:19But fingers crossed, we don't.
35:21Hope you're OK, and I'll speak soon.
35:23Bye.
35:24I'm standing here, and I know what's going to happen again.
35:27It's just the when next for me.
35:31Hey, it's just to let you know I got a letter to say that...
35:35I don't enjoy this.
35:37And then I think, because I think of the amount of time I've spent on this,
35:42and then it takes me back to my grandad.
35:45With the amount of time that I've spent trying to trip her up
35:48and trying to get her to the police,
35:50how many hours have I put into this
35:52and I could have spent those hours doing something else.
35:54Like, this is not enjoyable.
35:55Like, this is not fun.
35:57Like, is it, like, a negative obsession?
35:59Maybe I do have, but...
36:03Adele's obsessive, so then I don't want to put myself in the same bracket as her,
36:06because I'm not anything like her.
36:09And if it wasn't for her, I wouldn't have to do this.
36:10Adele's been accused of texting a previous victim.
36:30As part of the release conditions,
36:33she wasn't allowed to approach this person in any way,
36:36and that's why she's back in court today.
36:3750% of people who are jailed for stalking do it again when they come out.
36:44So a lot of traditional therapy doesn't necessarily work.
36:46You've got to get into the motivations behind why somebody does that,
36:49and you can see that her compulsion to do this,
36:53you know, she's been in prison,
36:54she comes out and she immediately starts again.
36:56That means the justice system didn't work.
36:58It means that while Adele was punished with prison time,
37:03she hasn't been changed in any way.
37:05It hasn't had the impact on Adele that it needed to have,
37:09and so we aren't any further forward.
37:12The chances are it will repeat.
37:14It's possible that her lawyer might decide
37:20that Adele's been in jail several times now,
37:24and it doesn't appear to have changed her behaviour,
37:28so he might argue that if we go down the same road again,
37:32we might end up with the same outcome.
37:34If you keep throwing her in prison,
37:35and she keeps coming out and re-offending,
37:37you know, you're not getting anywhere.
37:39That's a nice picture.
37:57And you climbed the...
37:59Arthur's seat.
38:00Arthur's seat.
38:01With the dogs.
38:02She would have just got them then as well.
38:05She'd have had them about three months.
38:08My goodness, that was years ago.
38:09Do you think prison's the right place for her?
38:15I mean, there's a reason she's doing a prison sentence
38:17she has done wrong.
38:19There needs to be a punishment of some sort,
38:21but, no, I think when it gets to, like, to this point,
38:27that's no probably the answer.
38:32Really, it's something in herself that she needs to work on.
38:35It needs to be her that does the work at the end of the day.
38:38She knows that we still love her,
38:43but there's trust isn't there any more.
38:49If it was to happen again, that would be it.
38:51She would have to be on her own.
38:53And I just hope we don't have to put it to the test.
38:57You told her that?
39:00I'm going to.
39:01Mm-hmm.
39:02Turn left, then your destination will be on the right.
39:06Do you think she understands why she's done it?
39:09I'm not sure.
39:10Ask me.
39:11Ask me later.
39:12What do you think would give people closure at this point?
39:17People are only going to get closure from it when Adele stops.
39:20Prison doesn't give us closure.
39:22It just puts a pause on things.
39:25Do you think she'll ever stop?
39:27I don't think she'll ever stop, no.
39:28Do you feel sorry for her in any way?
39:30No, no.
39:31There's no sympathy, not one single bit of sympathy for her.
39:35You obviously must know how badly she's affected women.
39:38And to keep doing it, that's where you start feeling like,
39:41you're like, I can't feel sorry for you anymore.
39:43How after 10 years are you still doing it?
39:46All these victims.
39:48She has ruined people's lives.
39:51Is it a unique experience going through this kind of deception?
39:55Oh, yeah.
39:55Totally a unique experience.
39:57The stigma is, how can you fall in love with someone that's online
40:00and you've never met them?
40:02And you definitely can.
40:05And when there's people out there like Adele,
40:07who is manipulating you fall into traps that she puts for you,
40:12who can you trust?
40:13Absolutely no one after that.
40:16The research on people who engage in pathological lying,
40:20which is what's occurring in this case,
40:22kind of shows that a lot of the time
40:24they start to believe their own lies.
40:27It's actually kind of at a level of delusion
40:29and it can be very hard to treat
40:32because people won't admit to what they're doing,
40:35even to themselves often.
40:36How was that?
40:40How was the whole visit today?
40:43It's been a very positive one.
40:47Before it was, I don't know why I'm here.
40:49I've never done anything wrong.
40:51I felt she just talked to her.
40:53She was like a different person.
40:55You know, I'm here and I've just got to accept it.
40:59How are you feeling about it all?
41:02Much better than what I have done.
41:05You know, I think when she does come out,
41:07I'm quite sure that she is going to rebuild her life
41:10and be happy and that's all you want, really.
41:16Because you said before that you couldn't die through it again.
41:19Oh, I told her that today.
41:20I said that there's just no way we can go through anymore.
41:25We most definitely need this to be the end.
41:28I mean, as I said to you before,
41:30the person that did these crimes is no...
41:34the girl that we all know and love.
41:39No, I think after speaking today, I want to...
41:44I believe that, well, she said
41:47that she'll never set back foot in a prison.
41:49She'll never be back in a prison once she gets out.
42:04If you were to give Adele a piece of advice right now,
42:09what would it be?
42:11Try and turn this into a thing
42:13where you're going to make a positive impact on the world
42:15instead of constantly tearing people down,
42:19making people feel scared.
42:20She's the same age as me.
42:21We're now 35 years old.
42:23She's spent potentially the majority of her adulthood in prison.
42:27In 10 years, like, I've ticked so many, like,
42:30amazing things off my bucket list.
42:31Like, I'm, like, where I want to be in life
42:33and I feel like if I was to die today, I'd die happy
42:37and I just don't think she'd be able to say that.
42:40Why does that make you upset?
42:41Because I don't know.
42:43I actually don't know why I've got so much fucking empathy for her,
42:46but I do, because I just think to myself,
42:48like, if that was me, I'd feel so shit.
42:51I don't even want to feel sorry for her.
42:54Like, it's fucking annoying me that right now I'm crying because of her,
42:56but I'm, like...
43:00I get sad thinking of the thought of,
43:03like, she's not...
43:06She doesn't want to change and that's sad.
43:10Because from not changing that,
43:12just, again, it just affects more and more people.
43:15Do you hope this is the last time you have to talk about it?
43:17Yeah, like, I genuinely do.
43:18Like, I couldn't want anything more from this full thing
43:21than just to, like, shut it down.
43:23Do you want to hang up your detective hat?
43:25Yeah.
43:26I think I'll always be called Detective Draper
43:28in some sort of way,
43:30because it is, like, what my friends call me,
43:31because I always find out everything.
43:33But for this case, yeah,
43:35I would quite like to say, like, case closed.
43:36To be honest.
43:37To be honest.
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