- 1 day ago
Sports is more than just wins and losses—it’s a reflection of culture, influence, and power. In this exclusive one-on-one conversation, journalist Shari Nycole sits down with Sheryl Swoopes to discuss their journey, the business of sports, and the impact of athletes beyond the game. From career-defining moments to the evolution of sports and culture, this conversation will go beyond stats and highlights to uncover the mindset, challenges, and legacy of a true game-changer.
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00:00Coming up next, if you've been here with me for the last two days, then you know that we have been shining a much-deserved spotlight on black women in sports.
00:09And we're going to keep that same energy right here on the stage today.
00:13Coming up next, you'll see an absolute superstar, a powerhouse.
00:19I call her the WNBA herself.
00:21The icon is here to talk to you about her career and her journey.
00:25Please help me welcome three-time WNBA MVP, Cheryl Swoops and Essence black woman and sports producer, Sherry Nicole.
00:46What's up, everybody?
00:48One more.
00:49Let me walk up here.
00:51What's up, everybody?
00:52There we go.
00:54There we go.
00:54We got an icon in the house.
00:55I just want to make sure everybody's energy is where it needs to be.
00:59Cheryl Swoops, the one and only.
01:01One more time for Cheryl Swoops while we get in these chairs.
01:04You all know how these chairs can be.
01:08It's okay.
01:09We're here.
01:09We're here.
01:10So, first of all, do I have any Sigma Gamma Rose in the house?
01:15Because she became your soror yesterday.
01:20Congratulations.
01:22Welcome to Greekdom.
01:23How does it feel, another accomplishment in your life, but how does this one differentiate from all the others?
01:30Gosh.
01:31First of all, before I answer that question, can I just say, like, to be here at Essence in front of all of our people, like, I love being where I am.
01:45To answer your question, you know, playing basketball my entire life for over 30 years, it's just a big family and a big sisterhood.
01:54And I debated and debated and debated and debated, but, you know, when it's right and when you just sit and you listen and God just kind of guides you and leads you where you're supposed to be, that's exactly how I felt in joining Sigma Gamma Rose.
02:10And it's just, it's a big sisterhood.
02:17It's something that I've always had as a player.
02:20And now, as a fully grown woman, I have another sisterhood, and I'm so excited to be a part of the sorority.
02:28Yeah.
02:28Speaking of sisterhood, I'm a Zeta.
02:30I became, do I have any sororers in the audience?
02:32Don't embarrass me.
02:34Y'all not here.
02:34It's all right.
02:35We'll talk later.
02:36So, you know, I understand that sisterhood is a little bit different in certain respects than the sisterhood you may have with your teammates, perhaps, or even some of your coaches.
02:43How does the sisterhood kind of differentiate for you?
02:47Well, for me, when you're playing, right, we're all trying to accomplish the same thing, and that is ultimately to win a championship and another one and another one.
02:57Yeah.
02:57Yeah, it's different, but in a way, for me, it's also very similar because what we're trying to do is win in life, right?
03:07We're trying to teach the young women growing up how to be great and who they are and owning who they are and being a part of the community.
03:16Those are things that I've always done my entire life anyway.
03:19So, for me, it just completely made sense to become a part of Sigma Gamma Rho.
03:26Yeah.
03:26What also makes sense is the fact that there's a 30-year anniversary coming up in October of the Nike Air Swoops.
03:35Give it up for that, ladies and gentlemen.
03:36It's been 30th anniversary.
03:39And, you know, one of the things that I reference you as, just me, a redundant trailblazer.
03:45There's so many things that you have done that were never done before.
03:50With that in mind is how do you process that, Cheryl?
03:53How do you look into the face of your achievements knowing nobody's done it before over and over and over again?
04:00And what does that mean for you now in your life?
04:02I mean, it's crazy when I think about it.
04:06First of all, when I think about the fact that it's been 30 years, and then I want to say, dang, I'm getting old.
04:14But when I think about the fact that it's been 30 years since Nike came out with the Nike Air Swoops, it's kind of surreal.
04:23But in everything that I've ever done in being the first, I always say that somebody had to be the first, right?
04:31And whatever that is we do, we had to kind of set the stage.
04:36And we had to do it so that the women coming up behind us, they knew what to ask for.
04:42They knew what to fight for.
04:43And for me, it's always been about leaving things better than I found it.
04:48The fact that it took 30 years for another black woman and the Asia Wilson to finally have a signature shoe is kind of mind-boggling to me.
05:01Because there's been some amazing talent come through the WNBA.
05:05But I'll also say this.
05:06It's not just about the talent that makes a brand, a company like Nike, say, we want to give you a signature shoe.
05:15It's not just about the talent.
05:17There's so many other aspects and so many other things that go into that.
05:21And to me, Asia Wilson is the complete package on the court, the complete package off the court.
05:27And it was a no-brainer for Nike to say, all right, Asia, it's your turn.
05:32With that said, we think about Asia and other top players right now who are kind of just taking the baton from you and moving it forward.
05:39What say you to where the women's game is sitting right now?
05:41I feel like we're, you know, there's been a lot of energy and enthusiasm behind it.
05:45But we're also at the precipice, I feel like, of another sharp turn.
05:48I think in an upwards direction, for you, kind of where do you sit with how the WNBA and professional women's basketball is evolving right now?
05:55I love it.
05:57You know, there's been, and I know we'll get into this, there's been so much just stuff on social media, right, about myself and all of the former players,
06:09about us being mad and jealous and envious and racist, all the things that you can think about.
06:14And I really don't address that stuff because it's not true.
06:20Now, sometimes when I have time, I do address it.
06:24But I will tell you, and I feel like I can speak for every current player, I can speak for every former player,
06:30when I say the league today is exactly where we hoped it would be when the league started back in 1997.
06:38Are there things that we need to see, things that we want more of and better?
06:45Absolutely.
06:46But I absolutely think we're headed in the right direction.
06:50The brands, the sponsorships, like, they're finally catching on,
06:55and they're finally understanding and realizing that investing in women, like, we're not a charity,
07:01but investing in women is one of the smartest business decisions that I think any brand could make.
07:10Okay, we're going to go there.
07:11I think you got a little time.
07:12You kind of hinted at the criticism.
07:14And I'm going to be honest, guys, it really bothers me.
07:18As a former collegiate basketball player, someone who literally tried to model her game after you growing up,
07:24it really grinds my gears.
07:26And I'm not sure if the level of criticism you've received would be the same if you weren't a black woman.
07:32I just want to be honest.
07:34So I know that you kind of say, okay, social media is going to social media.
07:38I'm not going to really pay attention too much.
07:39But I also know you're a human being who has learned experience in this game in your very season.
07:45Is there something you want to address when it comes to how you've been criticized in recent years
07:50about your commentary on this game?
07:52Well, I mean, yeah, there's a lot I want to address.
07:59So here's the thing.
08:00First of all, we all have opinions.
08:05And so when someone comes to me and they ask me for my opinion.
08:10Your opinion, right?
08:11Yours?
08:11It can't be right or wrong.
08:12Not theirs over there.
08:13Your opinion, right?
08:14Yeah.
08:14Okay.
08:15So it's mine.
08:17So it can't be right or wrong.
08:19You can agree, you can disagree, which is fine, but it's my opinion.
08:24Yeah.
08:24Okay?
08:25And the reason why I say that is, so I'll go back to two years ago.
08:30Kaitlin Clark, Angel Reese, Kim Brink, Rekia Jackson, when that rookie class came into the WNBA.
08:37I was asked the question, how do you think Kaitlin Clark, Angel Reese, how do you think they will do in the WNBA?
08:46My response was, I think it's going to take time for both Angel and Kaitlin to adjust.
08:54Because you're going from being a collegiate athlete to being a professional athlete where people are fighting for jobs every single day.
09:01Yes.
09:03And the backlash I got from how dare you say that Kaitlin Clark won't be ready was mind-boggling to me.
09:13But I also said the same thing about Angel Reese, and it was not an issue.
09:19So when I think about just everything that happens on social media when you start talking about women's basketball, to me, it's from people who just started watching the game.
09:32Yep.
09:33Who don't really have a clue about women's basketball.
09:36And if we're going to be completely honest, a lot of those new fans really aren't basketball fans.
09:43Right?
09:44So those are the ones that I'm like, you're new here, so I really don't have time for you.
09:48Yeah.
09:48Yeah.
09:49Yeah.
09:50Because the things that's going on in the league as far as like, I mean, the physicality and all those things.
09:57Like, we've been playing that way.
09:59Like, here's the part that's mind-boggling to me.
10:02You can take former NBA players.
10:07They criticize the guys every single day.
10:11And I mean, like, really criticize them.
10:13Absolutely do.
10:14And they get paid millions and millions to do it, but no one comes for them on social media.
10:22But as soon as a female, who was the first player to sign to the WNBA, starts talking about...
10:32Getting your bag.
10:33Just talking about basketball, though, right?
10:35Yes.
10:36Because for me, it's not personal.
10:37I want to see all the ladies succeed.
10:39I want to see them all get their bags.
10:41I want to see all of it.
10:42But if you're asking me what my thoughts are on the game today and on certain players, all I can do is be me.
10:49And that's being real and telling you the truth.
10:51It doesn't mean you have to like it, but it's my truth and it's my opinion.
10:56So I love where the game is today, but I will tell you, I just want to keep it basketball.
11:04All the other stuff that's coming with it right now, even for me, as someone who was the first, like a lot of the stuff that's coming with it today is a little bit of a turnoff, if I'm going to be very honest to you.
11:18I would have to agree, and I want to dive a little bit deeper.
11:21However, we've seen this insertion, and you kind of alluded to it, of racism when it comes to the conversation around the WNBA specifically.
11:32Many of us at least have an understanding that Angel Reese has been on a heavy receiving end of that.
11:39A hundred percent.
11:40With that in mind, though, what level of responsibility do you feel the media has played in perpetuating some of these narratives?
11:47And I say that as a media professional myself, but also speaking to you, you work in the media as well, too.
11:52So how much have we contributed to the problem?
11:55Well, I think the media is a big problem, right?
12:00First of all, there are so many more great stories that we could be talking about, and a lot of it is, it's like the headline.
12:09You're going to put a headline that you know, anytime you have Caitlin Clark's name and Angel Reese's name or even Cheryl Swoops, people are going to click on it.
12:21And a lot of it to me is clickbait.
12:24But I do think the media as a whole, we have to do a much better job of really talking about the game, like the real game and what's going on.
12:37Listen, I've talked to Angel, and I've said to Angel, you need to work on X, Y, and Z.
12:44And Angel receives that criticism.
12:47And Angel, I will say this, she works on her game.
12:51Let me rewind for a second.
12:52Absolutely.
12:53When the season first started this year, everybody, and I mean everybody, was coming for Angel because she wasn't playing very well, she wasn't scoring.
13:03And now the last, I'm going to say five, six games, she's probably averaging a double-double, and the media is quiet.
13:10So why can't we give her the same praise that we give other players, right?
13:17If you're going to critique her, if you're going to critique her, you should also praise her.
13:22Absolutely.
13:23And as a former athlete, we also have to be prepared and be ready to accept the things that the media is going to come with, that the media is going to say.
13:36Because we're not perfect.
13:37And that's the thing I think people tend to forget.
13:40Like, we're human.
13:41And we're going to make mistakes.
13:44We're not going to always be perfect.
13:46And I know Angel will, she'll post stuff and she'll say, I'm okay, I'm great.
13:51But I will sit here and tell you, like, it hurts because she's human.
13:58And that's the only thing I ask is to be fair.
14:03I want one example.
14:05Okay.
14:06So the very, I think it was the first game, when Chicago played at Indiana.
14:11And, you know, it was all over the media because people were saying that when Angel was at the free throw, at the free throw line,
14:17they were making monkey noises, calling her out of her name.
14:20It just was, it was just an ugly environment, right?
14:23So the game's over.
14:25Well, the foul, the foul with Caitlin and Angel, right?
14:28That blew up social media.
14:30So I responded and I said, I'm not mad at the foul that Caitlin gave Angel.
14:39Right, right.
14:39Because growing up, I was taught, you don't give up an easy layup.
14:43That's right, right.
14:44So I wasn't mad about the foul.
14:46Well, the thing that I was like, I thought it was a flagrant.
14:52Refs called it a flagrant.
14:53It is what it is.
14:54But my thing was, if that's how you're going to foul her, and it was a good foul, you should have done that.
15:02Like, don't play innocent.
15:05You said it, I didn't.
15:09Well, no, but here's why I say this.
15:10But I'm aligned.
15:11Here's why I say this.
15:14Because there are a lot of players that will do that.
15:18Yes.
15:18Right?
15:19You're going to foul.
15:20It's a hard foul.
15:21But then you want to pretend or act like you didn't do it.
15:23And so it makes a whole headline.
15:29So I was on a podcast, and it was a podcast.
15:35It was Gil's Arena.
15:36So it's me and three former NBA players.
15:39And the conversation was, well, Angel has to handle herself better in the media.
15:46And my question was, what do you mean?
15:48So they didn't like the way she answered a reporter's question.
15:53The reporter said, Angel, what did you think about the foul?
15:56Her response was this.
16:00It was a basketball play.
16:02Refs called it.
16:03Move on.
16:05And so they thought that she should have answered it differently, and I don't know how.
16:10So I said, listen, first of all, you lost the game.
16:13You got beat by 30.
16:15You didn't play very well.
16:17And in the arena, they're making monkey noises and calling you all kinds of things.
16:22How would you have handled the media in that instance, even as a man?
16:26So, like, you can't sit here and tell me that you've never had a moment after a game where you were just like,
16:34I don't really want to be here.
16:35I don't want to talk.
16:36We've all been there.
16:38So just like you give other players grace, can we extend just a little bit of grace to Angel Reese as well?
16:46I agree.
16:47I agree.
16:48With that in mind, you kind of speak to this duality that players have to sit in now of the double standard, like the standards that are in place for athletes, how you're supposed to behave, how you're supposed to play,
16:58versus the other thing like, hey, I had a bad game, I'm struggling, or hey, I thought I answered the question right, but apparently I didn't answer it right for you.
17:07And I feel like social media, as you mentioned, kind of amplifies these types of criticisms and things like that.
17:12But how has that kind of shifted?
17:14Like, between when you played, did you feel that sense of pressure and that duality as much as you're kind of seeing happen to other players at this time?
17:21Well, Cherie, here's what's different.
17:22We didn't have social media.
17:26We didn't have social media like this when I played.
17:29And I think social media is a big part of what's going on in the sports world today.
17:36But as an athlete and someone who's getting paid, that is part of our job, right?
17:42We have to talk to the media, even in times and moments when we don't want to.
17:46We're not playing very well.
17:48We had a horrible game.
17:50So, yeah, we have to continue to remain professional.
17:53But I also feel like there's a fine line that the media crosses at times.
17:59Because you are media, and you're smart, so you know which buttons to push and you know which questions to ask.
18:08But it's not always about the question that's asked.
18:11It's how you ask it, right?
18:14And when you look at just certain players, and it's not every player.
18:17You look at certain players across the league.
18:20The media is going to do a very good job of always trying to pit those players against each other.
18:27I will say, I think rivalries in sports, period, is very, very, very good for the game.
18:35I agree.
18:36That's why we want to watch, right?
18:39And Candace Parker said this, when KD left OKC and went to Golden State, when they went back to play each other, everybody was tuned in.
18:49Yeah.
18:49Because we want to see, like, uh-oh, what's going to happen.
18:52So, at one point, when KD and Russ didn't shake hands, the media was like, oh, they didn't even shake hands.
19:01But it was a great story.
19:02Yes.
19:03But on the women's side, they try to turn it into something that's more petty than competition.
19:11Yeah.
19:11Because at the end of the day, you are standing in my way, and I'm not your friend.
19:18We can be friends when the game's over, but when we're in between these lines, I don't like you.
19:24And that's OK.
19:25Right.
19:25Right?
19:25That's OK.
19:27Because I'm trying to win another championship.
19:29Right.
19:29And we can be best friends.
19:31You can be my sister.
19:32If you are on the other team, boo, I am coming for your neck.
19:38Facts.
19:38What do you think can be done with that, Sid, Cheryl?
19:44Because I feel like the game, as you're talking about it, we both know, we both played it, has been lost in translation because of a lot of things that we're talking about.
19:53What can resuscitate people's understanding that women can be our physical beings as well?
19:59Women athletes, we're going to push each other.
20:01We're going to have scrapes and bruises and bleed.
20:03We might argue.
20:04It might get chippy at times.
20:05That doesn't take away from our womanhood.
20:07But it doesn't define us as anything but that.
20:10And we should be allowed the space to do that.
20:12How do we turn a corner to get people to really understand that, in general, men and women?
20:15I mean, seriously, I really do think a lot of it starts with the media.
20:21Right?
20:21But I also think we have a lot of people, not necessarily covering our game, but we have a lot of people in these different podcast spaces that all of a sudden, because it's cool to be a part of women's basketball, that all of a sudden know everything about women's basketball.
20:43Yeah.
20:44And you just got here.
20:46And you just got here.
20:49I'm not even going to call any of them out, but y'all probably know some that I'm talking about.
20:54So my thing is, like, you're welcome to be here, but you're not welcome to bring your ignorance to the game.
21:02Yeah.
21:02Because we have fought very, very, very hard for the respect, for the recognition, for the sponsorships.
21:13And the game is finally in such an amazing space where there are just tons of eyes on it.
21:21We need more people that are going to help uplift and build us than tear us down.
21:26I got to ask you this.
21:30Keeping the game in retrospect and in mind that's occurring right now versus when you came into the WNBA, how would the Cheryl Swoops of old, and I mean that with the utmost respect, handle the women's game encompassing everything we just talked about, the media frenzies, the racism, all these other issues, the sexism.
21:52How would that, Cheryl, handle this level of WNBA tension and environment, in your own words?
22:01It's a great question because I didn't – I mean, the racism stuff, we experienced it.
22:08That's been there since day one, right?
22:10It's just more elevated today because of social media.
22:15I will say this.
22:18Girl, I would have made a lot of money with NIL deals.
22:22But that was not your question.
22:28I feel you, though.
22:31You know, when we talk about the – like the physicality of it, I mean, I would have welcomed it.
22:39Yeah.
22:39But we were also very physical back then.
22:43I would have embraced that opportunity to really sell our game but not compromising who I am.
22:56And I really think that's what people don't like about Angel Reese because Angel Reese is going to be unapologetically who she is, regardless of what people say, what they think, how she plays.
23:14She's going to be her.
23:15And I know that's what I would have done.
23:19That's the type of player I would have been, the type of person I would have been.
23:22And embracing it.
23:24But at the same time, you also have to know when to say something.
23:31Because you can't always respond, right?
23:34You got to – sometimes you got to just take a break, take a breather, sit back, let stuff blow over.
23:40But also, you have to remember that it's always bigger than you.
23:46There are so many young girls out there that are watching the WNBA today because of what we did in the past.
23:55But they're really watching today because of the Asia Wilsons, the Angel Reese's, the Caitlin Clark's, the Breonna Stewart's, Sabrina.
24:07The game today is – and, yeah, we got a lot of work to do.
24:12But it's in such a great place that I just want to continue to do my part to help uplift and educate people about where the WNBA started.
24:28Speaking of your part, it's interesting because you've always been very close to the game.
24:32Yeah.
24:32But I feel like there's a level of visibility that we've yet to see from you when it comes to the WNBA.
24:37We've got all these expansion teams coming now.
24:39They're opening the floodgates, which I'm excited about.
24:41Yeah.
24:42With everything in mind and also the fact that you are unapologetically you, you say it straight up, no chaser.
24:47You're a season.
24:48You know this game better than most, if not all.
24:52How would you like to envision your involvement in a perfect world with the WNBA moving forward?
24:58What would you like that to look like?
24:59Ooh, there's a lot.
25:01Let's do it.
25:01Dive in.
25:01In a perfect world, I would be an owner and bring the Houston Comets back.
25:09That's the perfect world, okay?
25:10Oh, yeah.
25:11In a semi-perfect world, I would still love to see the Houston Comets come back.
25:17Yeah, same.
25:18And if it doesn't, I just – so I'll say this.
25:23I really feel like I still have so much to give to the game.
25:30But more than that, I have so much to give to these young women about life, right?
25:36And through sports, like basketball taught me so much.
25:41And I'm going to put it out there because I would absolutely love to be a GM of – it doesn't have to be a new team.
25:49Yeah.
25:49I would love to be a GM of the Las Vegas Aces right now.
25:52Come on.
25:53I didn't say that.
25:53I didn't say that.
25:54No shade.
25:55They're struggling a little bit.
25:56Yeah, they are.
25:56I love the team.
25:57But I just want to be able to be a part of something, be a part of the league that absolutely changed my life.
26:06And I want to be able to be that person for these young women today.
26:12Yeah.
26:13Is there – let's do glows and grows, right?
26:16One grow that you'd like to see happen when it comes to black women in sports in general.
26:22So take basketball but all the other sports that we're also seeing kind of blossom and bubble right now versus one glow.
26:29One thing that you're like, hey, Cherie, this is really working for black women across the sports diaspora.
26:34What would you say to that?
26:35Oh, so grow.
26:40I would love to see – and I know it's across all sports, but right now because of where we are and what we're talking about,
26:46we have one black female head coach in the WNBA.
26:52I would absolutely love to see women's sports in general grow across putting black women at the forefront
27:01and not just being coaches but being owners and being GMs and being the ones that are building –
27:10Clap it up.
27:10Absolutely.
27:11Building the thing, right?
27:14And a glow, something that I really love right now that I think is going really well.
27:20I would say the visibility, and it's not just women's basketball.
27:28Like today, it's so cool for people to talk about women's sports, right?
27:34You have women's professional soccer.
27:37Obviously, the WNBA, you got pro volleyball.
27:41First of all, I just think where we are as women today is in such a great place to be able to make a huge impact
27:50on not just these young women's lives but to be able to make a huge impact in this world.
27:55And I think we're in a good place with that right now.
27:59I would agree.
28:00Speaking of impactful, there's so much of you that you've shared with all of us over the years.
28:05But is there a part of Sheryl Swoops that you are eager to or you'd like to share with us
28:12that we've yet to see from you at this phase of your life?
28:15It could be personal or professional or both.
28:19Gosh, you put me on the spot with that one, sis.
28:25You know what I think is – no, I know this.
28:31So many people know me as a basketball player.
28:35And I want to be in a place where people get to know me for more than just being a basketball player.
28:44I love mentoring.
28:47I love uplifting our young black girls.
28:50And honestly, that was a big reason why I wanted to become a part of Sigma Gamma Rho
28:56because I know what they represent and what they stand for when it comes to being in the community and giving back.
29:01Just being here at Essence and in front of so many incredible, amazing, powerful people,
29:10I'm ready to do something different.
29:12And what I mean by that is still always staying connected to basketball because that's just me.
29:19But also doing something different and being in our culture, in the business side of things,
29:28that's something that I would absolutely really love to do.
29:30As we close this, I want to do an exercise.
29:34And I know everybody's been sitting for a minute.
29:36You might have had a little food over there and you're kind of chilling.
29:38Can everybody stand up for me really, really quickly?
29:40And I'm going to stand with you.
29:41No, you sit right there.
29:42Oh.
29:43Don't move.
29:43Everybody stand up for me.
29:44I was standing too.
29:45No, no, no.
29:45Everybody stand up for me.
29:46I'm really big on giving people their flowers.
29:49It's just something I'm really, really big on.
29:52I don't know if Cheryl knows this.
29:53I started playing basketball when I was eight years old.
29:56I modeled my whole game after you.
29:59And I had your number when I was in high school.
30:02And I literally wanted to be you growing up.
30:05And to stand here and be able to thank you.
30:09I never imagined this would happen for me ever in my life.
30:12It is a dream come true.
30:14So I want to thank you for all the seeds that you've sown.
30:19And here's a plant that grew because you took a chance and followed your dreams.
30:24So we all want to honor you with the biggest round of applause that we can give you.
30:29We thank you.
30:30We love you.
30:31We honor you.
30:32The one and only, the icon, one more time, guys, Cheryl Swoops.
30:36Thank you so much.
30:44We love you.
30:46We love you.
30:46We love you.
30:46We love you.
30:47We love you.
30:47We love you.
30:48We love you.
30:49We love you.
30:49We love you.
30:49We love you.
30:50We love you.
30:50We love you.
30:51We love you.
30:51We love you.
30:51We love you.
30:52We love you.
30:53We love you.
30:53We love you.
30:53We love you.
30:54We love you.
30:54We love you.
30:55We love you.
30:55We love you.
30:56We love you.
30:57We love you.
30:57We love you.
30:58We love you.
30:59We love you.
30:59We love you.
31:00We love you.
31:01We love you.
31:02We love you.
31:03We love you.
31:04We love you.
31:05We love you.
31:06We love you.
31:07We love you.
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