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00:00how you doing ladies and gentlemen uh this is dear black men brought to you by essence
00:25uh special segment during dear black men this summit is called homecoming i got a special panel
00:31for you today my name is ebro darden of hot 97 ebro in the morning as well as uh apple apple music
00:38um first and foremost bringing to the program erlon woods erlon how are you doing today
00:45i'm doing all right man i appreciate uh this opportunity to speak on this platform and
00:50uh to say a little bit about myself i'm erlon woods the co-host uh and producer of a podcast called
00:59ear hustle it is let's bring in shaka singor shaka what's going on good brother excited to be here
01:09uh shout out to essence for having us i am a writer new york time bestseller writing my wrongs like
01:15death redemption in american prison and the co-founder of redeemed soul a new platform
01:21that aggregates all of the important work in the space of criminal justice reform
01:28uh let's bring in raymond santana how you doing raymond what's up about doing um raymond santana
01:36you know formerly known as one of these uh central part five now and that's one of the uh exonerated
01:42five so it's a pleasure to be on this platform thank you guys for having me
01:47um while we have everybody's uh attention for this next hour we're going to be talking about
01:53you gentlemen and your lives uh how they were affected by the justice system what you've done
01:59since you've gotten home um and what information we can impart on people viewing right now about
02:05how the justice system has damaged the black family how it's specifically damaged black men
02:14and what we're feeling right now with the inertia and society changing and the work you gentlemen are
02:19doing and how others have even jumped on the bandwagon uh to put some wind in your sails and some money
02:26behind your movements so that we can continue this momentum uh through this important time in history
02:31and into the future uh first um let's start with you raymond um we a lot of us have seen a lot of
02:38the information with regard to the exonerated five but just for clarity uh share with us what you were
02:45charged with uh how many years you were in prison and then i'd love to hear from you uh how you mentally
02:51dealt with being in prison and away from your family so we'll start with you and then we'll go around
02:58the rest of you gentlemen with the same question go ahead okay um for me uh i was charged with
03:05attempting murder in the first degree robbery in the first degree rape in the first degree
03:11uh sodomy sexual assault in the first degree i would be charged with about over 13 charges i spent
03:17seven years in prison for a crime that i did not commit and for me it was very difficult you know when
03:23i came home and i tried to adjust you know um i mean even in prison you know going to prison for
03:29something that for a crime that you did not commit and then also being 14 years old and not having any
03:34dealings with the law not even knowing the system not know what to expect it's it's it's all about the
03:39unknown and and so for me it was definitely an adjustment period it was it was difficult um what happened
03:47was i stumbled on education because here i was i was sitting in the system not knowing what to do with
03:52myself and um and i just took a chance on on just reading books and and and getting my ged and once
04:00i got my gd i wound up going to college in prison because they had a college program in there before
04:05governor george pataki pulled it out in 1995. um and so for me i was one i was able to cope and deal
04:13with the system and the effects of the system was through education and it also gave me an understanding of
04:19what finally happened to us how did it happen to us how institutional racism is real and systematic
04:26racism sorry race is real and um and that became the building blocks of what i later you know becoming
04:34you know how i became an activist and so this was the start this was my foundation and it was about
04:39reading these books in prison and also attending college uh erlon same question so okay um
04:50i was convicted of attempted second degree robbery in 1997 and it just so happened to be my third
04:57strike in california so i was sentenced under the california three strikes law to 31 years to life
05:02plus 26 years to life and then when i was being arrested one of my best friends that was with me
05:08firman little was killed so you know i had to um basically fight his case as well you know they
05:14charged us with murder being that they killed him um we ended up dropping that so i ended up serving a
05:20total of 21 years and i believe that like when i stepped back into the system because it was my
05:27second time being in prison i went the first time when i was 17. um i think the light switch pretty much
05:33went off in my head to where especially when my partner got killed you know it was like you know what am
05:39i out here you know into this crime for you know it don't really have to be like this and i had to
05:44really come to grips with that for myself you know like i'm out here messing up i'm out here putting
05:48myself in harm's way so um for i'll say the next 21 years you know my whole life was just basically built
05:57on doing better trying to uh better myself trying to really just come to terms with what i've done
06:05to my life you know and and you know basically just get back with my family and talk to them about
06:10everything that i had been putting them through you know police coming to the house all kind of stuff so
06:16uh while i was in prison and dealing with that i was able to really just like find myself and really
06:22um i could say really just come to terms with who erlon woods was and um put a lot of the like games
06:30behind me put my whole destructive path behind me like i said when that light switch went off man my
06:34whole life changed so i was able to really just you know become more of a mentor to the peers around me
06:41and just changed my life and shaka same question for you yes so i i grew up in the streets of detroit
06:51when i was 14 ran away from home and experienced all the things that come with street culture
06:56childhood friend murdered uh being addicted to drugs getting standing that coach when i was 17
07:02years old i got shot multiple times and 16 months later i shot and tragically caused the man's death
07:08i was sentenced to 17 to 40 years in prison uh walked into prison man with a lot of that anger
07:13and bitterness didn't want to be responsible and then i was fortunate to meet some of the most
07:18incredible mentors in the world and these men they gathered me to books man i read malcolm x's
07:23autobiography and that was the first kind of awakening of a possibility of a life beyond prison
07:29but i wasn't quite ready yet you know i was thugging it out on the yard actually rose through
07:33the ranks as one of the major shot callers in the prison system and eight years in i caught another
07:38case in prison for getting into a conflict with an officer that led to me being in solitary confinement
07:43for four and a half years straight i did a total of seven years in solitary end up serving a total of
07:4819 years and the thing that really turned my life around was meeting these incredible mentors getting
07:55a letter of forgiveness from the woman who raised the man who i was responsible for killing and getting
08:01the letter from my son that really highlighted uh what it meant to be a dad and to fail in that
08:07responsibility by making uh life choices that led to the path of prison and so you know in that
08:14environment i began to write i started writing while i was in solitary wrote my first book there
08:18got out of solitary published my first book from prison got sued by the prison administration um
08:24navigated that that lawsuit and then when i got released in 2010 i came out selling books out the
08:31trunk uh lily out the trunk of my car hustling and you know that led to a series of things
08:37unfolding for me i ended up getting invited to be a fellow at mit media lab a kellogg fellow
08:43taught at the university of michigan uh became a ted speaker won manchester university innovator of the
08:50year have led multiple organizations either in partnership or as an executive director uh so my
08:57imprint in terms of criminal justice is deeply rooted in my lived experience you know i'm watching
09:01the protests and thinking about the times that i led protests inside prison which got me in a lot
09:07of trouble uh but it was necessary to stand up for something that was meaningful and i eventually
09:13wrote this book called writing my wrongs to articulate the journey of a young man growing up in several
09:18broken systems our school system the culture in our community the prison system because i wanted
09:23people to understand the humanity of the men and women that i was leaving behind bars and that book
09:28debuted on the new york times that's out of this about four years ago and it's continued to sell and
09:34inspire a shift in our current criminal justice system um erlon for you and for shaka um because we're
09:42going to be talking a lot about as men as black men family and both of you young men at an early age
09:50were out uh shock you communicated that you ran away um erlon you said that you know just being wild in the
10:00street doing crime um starting with you erlon what was it going on at home in your family that made
10:08you feel like being out in the streets or doing that activity was what you wanted for yourself
10:16well i would say you know at home i had a great family life you know my mother my father they was
10:21together uh my father even though i always say this like when i was up until i was 17 i think i only had
10:28about a good 500 words from my father so we didn't have like a conversation even though
10:32we lived in the same house uh but inside the house that's something to pay attention to though
10:37that's something to pay attention to that's key that's a key point yeah right and i don't think
10:42i you know me and my father really had a conversation until i was in prison for or rather arrested
10:48for a kidnap robbery of a drug dealer you know and that's when we first had like a real live conversation
10:53you know so when it comes to you know the family the my mother was basically the backbone of the
10:59family uh and like i told her later down the line i was like you know you know my decisions in life
11:06it's not your fault you know you did a good job while i was inside the gate of our home but once i got
11:11out into the streets you know with all my partners you know that's where it's like you know we became
11:16as they call delinquents you know doing whatever we're doing joining gangs you know getting involved in
11:22in that lifestyle so for me it wasn't the the family it wasn't the home really outside of the
11:28part i spoke on with my father you know just not really knowing him or not having that male figure
11:32in my life like that you know but that's a key component for men to understand right that you can
11:39be in the house right you can be living under the same roof with your young men and not be a father
11:49and not be present and right you know being as as men you know as parents you know learning to be uh
11:57someone who communicates with their kid and ages with their child in a healthy way in a productive
12:04way some people weren't equipped with that ability uh in their childhood and that's part of the cycle
12:09that as black men we have to in certain circumstances work through that right shocker what was that was
12:15happening at your at your house yeah i grew up on the east side of detroit in a neighborhood that on
12:22the outside looking in looked like the model for working on middle class black america my dad worked
12:27for the state he was also in the military in the air force my mother was a homemaker uh but unfortunately
12:34like a lot of the young kids who find themselves in the streets my mother was also abusive and my father
12:39was complicit in that abuse you know when i ran away from home i was honor roll scholarship you know material
12:45in terms of my performance in the classroom and you know even within within our class structure we
12:50don't talk a lot about how uh what happens with young black men and young black women how those
12:55things are allowed to slip to the cracks there were times i went to school with physical bruises
13:00and uh nobody ever reported that you know and so when i was about 14 you know i knew that it was time
13:06for me to leave my mother house because i was at that point where being hit wasn't an option i wanted to
13:12explore and i honestly thought that you know somebody would see the smart little you know
13:16handsome kid and and take me in and wrap me in the love that all children are deserving of but
13:21unfortunately i found myself being seduced into a very adult uh street culture you know it's one of
13:27the things we don't talk enough about you know the first time i was selling drugs you know i was 14 years
13:31old and those drugs were handed to me by an adult uh the first time i used drugs that was that influence
13:38came at the hands of an adult and so those things had a dramatic impact on my life and like even when
13:43i got shot at 17 you know i got patched up and i was right back on the block there was no mental
13:49therapy there was no no psychiatrist no psychologist on this emblematic of the systemic nature of of
13:56uh gun violence in our community like how cyclical it is is when you know you get shot you go out and
14:02shoot somebody else and it was the same thing with you know getting them ass whoopings at home
14:06i took that same energy out into the streets like my mama beat my ass i go down the street get into
14:12a fight on the basketball court beat somebody else's ass and it was kind of like hurt people hurt people
14:17you know um that's right and you know again yeah coming back to why i show up in the world the way that
14:23i do because i think as men and as a dad like i'm a dad i have a grown son i have a young eight-year-old
14:29son and i think it's important for us to recognize how the lack of safety provision for young men
14:37impacts the decisions they make um you know it's easy to paint us as villainous in our communities
14:43obviously that's been celebrated in our culture like you know i always tell the guys when i talk to
14:48the rappers i'm like yeah we the guys that are wrapped about all the things you celebrate i actually
14:52did but also suffered as a consequence um and so being present as a dad you know it's nothing more
14:59important than that but in order to understand that we have to understand those root cause that
15:04celebrate it you know we talk about ass whoopings and comedy and we laugh and we talk about it but
15:09those are really adverse childhood experience when you walk in the household and your mother slap you
15:14for no reason um and i see it more as a dad now because you know i watch my son do things that i would
15:22have got beat for you know and it's really just him being a kid uh so those are the things that kind
15:27of led me down that pathway to getting caught up in the streets um raymond um for you it was a little
15:35bit different yeah your household um what was going on there and and i guess for you it it's very
15:45different because you were out amongst your friends as the store as as we've been as learned about your
15:51story about your story so tell us more about what was going on at home and and take us into what it
15:58was like reconnecting with your family after you were exonerated all right for me you know i came i live
16:08with my dad and my dad worked the same job for 40 years came from a middle-class family um you know my mom
16:16lived in time so um i have both of my parents you know it was just a situation of me you know wanting
16:24to go to a party on this weekend we had a vacation so we had time usually my my curfew was about nine
16:30o'clock at night but because we was on the little break my dad let me stay out a little bit longer
16:35and he knew that i was going to a party over the sean burke houses with some of my friends and so you
16:41know for me it you know it was just being at the wrong place at the wrong time being a follower you
16:49know um because i was so young and also being so naive you know to to the system to police not knowing
16:57what to expect you know like i stated earlier it was all about the unknown and so when i go through
17:02this experience and when i go you know and i come i return after seven years later it's difficult you know
17:08now you know um i should have been going through a transition period where my dad would have been
17:14teaching me how to become a young man you know how to fill out a job application how to court a female
17:19on a date and instead my life was just consumed with prison and so i come back and i come back as a
17:25totally different person you know you know because now the system has raised me for those seven years
17:31and i come back with this pent-up aggression you know um i come back you you know uh being leery of
17:39my surroundings and not even knowing that now i have to walk on eggshells because i was the first one
17:44that was released in 1995 from this case that you know so highly publicized and i didn't know how to
17:51function in society you know i didn't know you know literally for you know those of us that you know
17:57in new york i i used to take the stick train all the way down 42nd street and i would walk across
18:03town to the parole office i never knew there was a shuttle you know oh wow so you didn't know the
18:10cross town bus was working i didn't even i didn't know i would literally just walk and it didn't matter
18:16whether it was raining it was snowing um i would literally just watch town and i did that for months
18:21during the whole winter not knowing that there was a shuttle train that took you across or
18:26and so for me that's how much had that had changed you know from that gap that i was missing when i
18:32returned back and so it was very difficult for me to adjust there was no transition programs for us
18:38you know i you know um we had to earn our conditional release dates right um there was no work release for
18:45us there was nobody that sat me down and said this is how you adjust and this is how you transition
18:51i had to figure it all out on my own and that was a tough process in itself which you know later on
18:56wine wine me going back to prison because i just didn't know how to function i was just so
19:01institutionalized by that time um and i wasn't afraid to go back to prison at that moment was there
19:07any piece of you that felt comfortable going back like it was almost too comfortable to go back to prison
19:13i mean there was a part of me that um that i didn't want to go back but if i had to go back
19:20i knew how to survive and you know so it was like it wasn't a big deal at that point if i had to go back
19:27and ultimately i did you know i wound up going back um and so you know for me it was a very difficult
19:34transition it was a very difficult process and one that i didn't really fully grasp until until
19:40exoneration you know that system once it gets its hand on you it's hard to get loose right and it's
19:46designed that way it's designed to keep and it's designed to hold you for as long as it can because you
19:51are a body you are a part of that budget and it depends on you to survive um erlon um you went to
20:01you were in multiple on different occasions as well um and when you finally got to the other side
20:08talk about reconnecting with your family uh talk about what was going on in your spirit in your in
20:14your mental uh and and that reconnection period after you came home permanently
20:21decided you were gonna stay focused right right so um you know getting out of prison i didn't go
20:29back to southern california where i'm from los angeles i stayed in oakland california northern california
20:35because of jobs and everything else to me it's a better environment for a person getting out of
20:41prison you know oakland is very liberal or northern california should i say but um really you know
20:48getting back with my family you know i i used to get visits from my family a lot when i was in prison
20:52so i didn't really have to acclimate to that but um it was i say what was good was you know getting
20:58out and being able to hang with my father you know you know we we was tight and he just passed in
21:03february so i was afforded uh at least a year to hang out with him you know and being that i'm out i'm
21:10still on parole so i have a 50 mile radius that i can travel in without permission so that part right
21:17there is a little complicated because you know you might just this work is over that on friday i might
21:22want to hit a plane in la i got to go through a lot to do that so um you know my family do come up here
21:28to see me and i do go down there so we we have a we have a great relationship you know my mother my
21:32sisters and everyone and i got a brother that's still incarcerated but uh it wasn't it wasn't that hard for
21:38me because i kept my family relationship tight my whole time in prison and shocker for you
21:47talk about yes a little bit you had a very a very difficult relationship with your mom too so i'm
21:52sure it was very hard yeah it was very very different acclimation for me uh you know my mom i didn't see
22:00my mom until i had about 17 years in prison and as part of my healing process i had to go back and
22:08really unpack like the things that happened in my childhood and part of that required me being
22:12empathetic to her story and understanding what happened in her childhood so when i came home we
22:16we've started the the building process of really uh just reconnecting you know and being honest and
22:22being transparent and it was very hard you know my mother when i put the book out you know we had a
22:27whole moment where she was really upset and i just told her i was like you know this this was my
22:32experience like it's no judgment to you these are the facts you know so we were able to navigate that
22:37and the same thing with my family you know over the 19 years i was gone uh my father was probably
22:42the most consistent person uh my father my stepmoms and then it was everybody else i didn't see until i
22:48came home every now and then a sister brother may come up actually my sister i don't think i've ever
22:52seen my brothers while i was in prison so coming home after two decades it was like coming back to a
22:57whole new world you know um everything had changed technology you always tell people it's kind of like
23:03fred flintstone walking into an episode of the jetsons uh because that's how far the world and
23:08how vast the world had changed and for me you know i knew that if i wanted to live the life that i
23:15imagined for myself behind bars i had to be forgiven i had to be open to understanding that my siblings
23:22have went through similar trauma um you know they've all had life experiences that change who they were
23:28and and really made it difficult to connect you know and it's a problem it's problematic in our
23:32community you know airline and uh rain to testify to the fact that when you go in those visiting rooms
23:38it's not a lot of family members in those visiting rooms you know so there are men who go decades
23:43without seeing their family and what i believe is essential to successful re-entry is having family and
23:50friends support uh you know i always talk to my my young guys in the streets and i tell them i'm like yo
23:55bro these cats you ride with on the block they ain't really built for the long term when they come
24:00to prison you know what i'm saying like they're not going to hold it down they're going to dip they're
24:04not going to be in your life so you have to really understand the relationships and who really cares
24:09about you um and so it was it was difficult but i was present in it i had i had a girlfriend at the
24:14time that i met about uh four years before i got out and so uh came home to a relationship which
24:22clearly i wasn't ready for because i you know messed that up very early on um but fortunately
24:28we had we we had we we got a beautiful son out of it and we're really amazing friends now um and so
24:36you know that experience of her helping me navigate life at the prison was essential to me being who i am
24:42today uh because it was somebody who actually understood some of what i went through and that can walk
24:48with me as i you know began to journey and you know i came out you know i literally hit the ground
24:53running the first thing i did the first day i stepped out was sold a book in the parking lot of
24:57the parole office you know i got straight to it and i literally haven't stopped since you know like
25:03you know i've been about that about that life right um but having people in my life who really
25:08understood what my mission was and my purpose and me showing up the way i did has been you know
25:14an incredible part of my success um raymond um over to you because um shaka brought up having you
25:22know a relationship and finding love and how that was instrumental right um you recently got married
25:30yeah yeah recently saturday saturday congratulations congratulations
25:36congratulations to the detroit home girl thank you there you go that's beautiful yeah so now
25:45but talk about how important though that once again re-establishing family and love and having love
25:52in the home um i would love to hear from you on how that's helping you right now in the present even
25:58deal with the past yeah i mean definitely um for me getting married was a it's a blessing um
26:06especially when you meet somebody that can um that can definitely understand you know as a woman
26:12that can be supportive that could be sympathetic that can help you reach new heights as a man um you
26:19know for me i went through relationships thinking that i had to figure it out and um and to find out
26:26that i really didn't to find out that they become stepping blocks in my development in my building in my
26:32growth and so for me when i when i ultimately meet delicious you know and i don't connect with her as
26:39delicious i connect with her as london right because you know you know the the uh the delicious part
26:46is part of the business london's the person who's the individual who's the substance and so when i meet
26:52her and um you know the reason why i married her is because she helps me grow as a man you know i mean
26:58it's crazy because people look at us as like two different two different scope and they don't
27:05think that we can gel um but we have dealt perfectly well and and so for me um you know even when you go
27:13through situations and you go through traumatic experiences such as prison it can dampen your
27:18spirit on love it can dampen your spirit on life you know on growth first you're going to come into
27:24your life and just shine a little bit of light you know and and can and can lead you in the right
27:29direction and help you help me grow as a man you know and she has i mean this woman you know here it
27:34is that you know fight against the city and you know he brought fight against the city for 11 and a
27:40half years to win a civil suit and then you know i win a civil suit and then you know i move down to
27:45georgia and life is different for me but i still live a secluded life because i'm so used to that you
27:52know that prison life i'm so used to being in a cell i'm so used to hearing being peace and quiet and
27:57hearing myself think but i don't have that person who um can help me grow and i meet and i meet london and
28:04and i mean now you know what's i'm saying and you know it's pride it's pride in being a relationship
28:12it's pride in being that you know being a man and and and and being a father you know to help me
28:17come go to the next level and so for me you know i needed that i needed that especially going to
28:24prison at the age of 14 and then coming back out at the age of 21 and then going back and forth
28:29through this revolving door and to finally meet somebody who uh who i feel is on my level or is
28:36higher and can help me grow you know love becomes a good feeling definitely you know you know all of
28:44all of you on here um right now as a part of this conversation dear black men summit uh shout to essence
28:52uh the homecoming and that word home right um of your stories i think are interesting because
29:01you know um there is a home whether it was some dysfunction whether it was um you know just outright
29:12abusive um or whether it was just the wrong place at the wrong time and you know navigating
29:20that and getting back to that home and that love and i don't think as as men specifically black men
29:28there's platforms that talk about how important
29:34love is in our lives to make sure that we're on our square and our foundation is right and i don't
29:40even know if culturally you know um we've we as black men have done a great job talking about how
29:50important publicly that love is right um in all forms whether it's sibling love whether it's maternal
29:58or paternal whether it's a relationship with another person where you're trying to build a new foundation
30:04to have of your own um shock it was very interesting to hear what you went through with your mother
30:11um and then writing your memoir and telling your story and still having to um so many years of
30:17adulthood still have to unpack that and you know how some some families have have never unpacked
30:26their bullshit you know what i mean and so and and and and sometimes you know these these uh these
30:35things we go through like having solitary confinement how traumatizing that is but looking at you shock on
30:42the other side that enabled you and gave you space to learn something and even come out on the other
30:50side and say to yourself for me to actually deal with what my mom did to me i have to understand how
30:57she became who she is like that that thought process is something that you that people spend thousands of
31:06dollars to go to a therapist to accomplish you understand and for us to be able to have this
31:14conversation right now and hopefully somebody gets it and goes yo i have an issue with my parents
31:25and i need to go about that because our parents ain't perfect that's a rude awakening we all get right
31:31at some point in life where you we you start to look around and you go yo my parents are really flawed
31:37and have caused major damage in my trajectory right and and so shocker for you was was writing the book
31:47the real getting to that point of really leaning into unpacking and peeling back the layers on the onion
31:56so that you can break the cycle and become the man we're seeing here today
32:01yeah absolutely you know when i first wrote right in my wrongs it was really inspired by the young
32:05men and women i was mentoring you know i grew up i could have been anything in the world and i realized
32:10that when i was in prison because i actually was was relatively intelligent um and so one of the things
32:17i do want to point out is that i was blessed in the sense that i was literate so i had the ability
32:22to read which led to me having the ability to write um and that's not the norm within the prison context
32:28so the reason i was able to maximize my growth in solitaire is because i actually had the opportunity
32:34to read and i had incredible mentors who read led me to the right books so when i got out i knew that
32:41i wanted to impact young people so i started by writing fiction but as i wrote that fiction people would
32:47come to me and say wow you don't seem like somebody who's been in prison and i'm like what do you
32:52think somebody's been in prison is really like and looking at these young kids who were 14 and 15
32:58and thinking about what my life was then that inspired me to write the book and it was very
33:02therapeutic you know and and i was real i was raw uh i knew that was important because i knew that if
33:09i was going to reach these kids i had to be true to what my experience was and i knew it was going to
33:15hurt some feelings in the process but it's to me part of freedom in our community part of freedom to love
33:20as black men is us being able to acknowledge our real truths like we so press we suppress so much
33:28of who we are um because we live in a world that hasn't taught us how to be mostly available and as
33:34a dad you know i every night before my son goes to bed we do affirmations because i want to affirm to
33:40him that not only is he love but he's powerful he's inspirational he's handsome he's courageous um and
33:47it's rooted in this understanding of what love really is from my perspective love is power that
33:52empowers others to be the best version of themselves and so that was the inspiration for writing the book
34:00i love that um erlon you um have your platform ear hustle um what what got you to that space and and
34:11created that fire in you to to be there on that on that platform sharing your truth well um when i
34:18finally got to san quentin who had which had a media center uh i met a volunteer by the name of niger poor
34:25and we all used to do like little stories for the local bay area newspaper i mean barry radio station
34:30so niger poor was like i want to do some podcasts and she started explaining what podcasts were we didn't
34:35know what it were what it was so we started running the ideal around and we actually was able by the
34:42prison to put out a a submission to this contest by uh prx which is what i work for now public radio
34:49exchange and radiotopia and we ended up winning that that contest and by winning that contest it put
34:54us on a large platform and i think when we first got out when we first put it out we had our first month
35:01was 1.5 million downloads and today it's been like 40 million downloads because people pretty much
35:06enjoy the way that we're building empathy for people that's incarcerated and that's that's what
35:12our mission has been that's why i met shaka at first you know yeah you know yeah and brothers like
35:18you know and that's one thing about you know us formerly incarcerated individuals going back into these
35:22prisons um is that we inspire one another and shaka coming in to san quentin inspires us you know
35:28like me i go back into prisons and i know i inspire others but i think that's our give back and and
35:33that's what you know i like to see definitely now i just say i think it's really important for people
35:38to hear when i met erlon i was actually leading the organization so i used to go visit the brothers
35:44in prison and now he's doing the same thing and i think it's important for people to hear that we
35:48don't just give back out here but we're constantly going back in prison which is very hard to walk back
35:54through them doors but me and the brother we met in there i used to come to the media center you
35:59know and i used to work with the brothers i've been featured in san quinn newspaper and all those things
36:04and it's because it's important for us to show the brothers and sisters inside that you can be successful
36:11after that so when he came home i was just super excited man to see his brother soaring um and it's
36:17important for people to hear that from us definitely amazing now raymond um tell us the uh the park
36:26madison nyc clothing brand that's a brand that you launching or have launched uh i want to make sure
36:32that people know about it so that they can get behind you and support it what got you to that point
36:37and uh let us know yeah it's parkmadisonnyc.com and we launched it in 2014 roughly 2014-2015
36:45and so for me being 14 years old and going into the system before that i used to love the sketch
36:51right and um i always had this this passion for design and this passion for art and when i went
36:57into prison you know it killed my spirit and so for those seven years i tried to regain it but i just
37:03couldn't and so it took me you know throughout the next 11 years you know i always try to see if i
37:10could bring it back but it just my spirit would just kill you know behind it you know and so i
37:16never finally i never regained the passion and it wasn't until after exoneration really after the
37:21settlement you know i want us a good friend of mine who's right i see young you know who was uh
37:27vp of fat farm and russell athletics and and you know he told me he said you know now the world you can
37:34go and you can see the world and do things you know and taking some sights and to live life and
37:41for me that wasn't that wasn't the be all right it was about i still felt incomplete because i had lost
37:48something and i wanted to try to regain it and so i told him i said no what i want to do is i want to
37:52build a t-shirt line and he looked at me in the beginning like i was crazy like a t-shirt line like
37:58dude you just you just you know you just beat the system you just won you got this money now now you
38:03can go with this right off into this and and i was like nah that's not enough like you know what about
38:10me what about the you know that little rainbow team is over that he loved the sketch like i i can't just
38:15leave it like that and so we wound up putting together park matters and nyc and so basically
38:22it started as a t-shirt brand and you know it took us all the way until um up to the film dropped you
38:30know because i designed the brotherhood t-shirt which was the names of the four brothers you know
38:34the five brothers exonerated five on it and that shirt just went global that shirt you know it reached
38:42south africa it reached brazil it reached angstagram i mean it's just world we get photos all all across the
38:49world people wearing this shirt and it has started the movement and for me that was the ultimate that
38:55was it for me you know i felt you know i was content with that even if i didn't sell a t-shirt
39:00at least i did something at least i i took an idea and i made it become something because
39:07so that we have to we have to live full and die empty right and for me that was it you know even
39:14if the brand doesn't sell at least i did it and i wasn't afraid but that wasn't the case
39:19right and so you know i mean you know now this shirt this shirt i mean i can't put the numbers
39:26out there but this shirt has done extremely that's cool do your thing man do that do your thing
39:35nobody want to be in your pocket like that go ahead man we don't need all that we're happy but you
39:40know but i want to keep supporting yeah but you know it's definitely you know it's and for me you
39:46know i got to relive and i got to read regain something a passion you know something that i
39:51thought that was lost and something that i thought i was never going to get back again and now i have
39:56it and so park medicine who i see is this thriving is doing well look everybody here you know has been
40:03able to um find that thing after the storm right after the justice system tried to finish you and crush
40:13you and it's still crushing a lot of brothers and sisters out there uh mostly black um at a at a at
40:21a higher clip than any other group in society and um i want to go around real quick before we wrap
40:29that because um right now there's a lot of inertia in society with regard to criminal justice reform uh
40:38police reform um we are seeing a a different tone in america than i think we've ever seen in history
40:47right this second i know in new york state um they passed a laundry list of bills uh excuse me laws
40:57laws that you know um could change policing in new york city for the future um you know from not even
41:06just uh you know outlawing chokeholds but now the transparency to be able to see a police officer's
41:14record that couldn't be seen before you know removing the investigative unit from inside the nypd to
41:22the attorney general's office so now when something happens the attorney general is investigating at the
41:29state level and not which is an elected position right not inside the police precinct where they can
41:37hide and protect each other etc etc um and another thing too that i think we all need to make sure is
41:44communicated externally from outside of this conversation anybody's watching and you guys know this from being
41:50in the system and dealing with police they send veiled threats to politicians they send veiled threats
42:00and sometimes overt threats to people in the neighborhoods so that no one wants to challenge
42:08them at any level and without the support of the community without the push of gentlemen like yourself
42:14uh without you know fundraisers and grassroots organizations and donations a lot of times you
42:22feel alone when you're combating the justice system and and not only do you feel alone but it's dangerous
42:30because you know at any given moment you or your family member in in in the right place at the wrong time
42:36um a police officer could threaten a niece or nephew threaten a mother or grandmother and that happens it
42:46happens in real life and politicians even get those same threats from police officers and and i've talked to
42:54several of them recently about it and now that they see the people in the community
42:59in the street they too don't feel afraid anymore just like the people in the street
43:06they people ain't afraid and that's why this change is happening is because they can't just
43:12bully people anymore and we got to keep that same energy and i want to hear from y'all before we wrap
43:18what exactly do you want to see um with regard to criminal justice reform police reform let's start with you
43:27erlon so when i was in prison i was under the california three strikes law you know and when
43:36you start dropping your custody from higher levels to lower levels it was a one prison that all the
43:42three strikers used to go to which was uh a a sale type of prison not a door day room type of prison
43:48because of our custody was high and i started looking you know you look around and you see who all has
43:52been convicted under the three strikes law and they're all black and brown 70 black so
43:58three strikes to me was like the most oppressive law since slavery was valid law so one of the
44:04things that i've been pushing is trying to repeal california three strikes law you know even when
44:09i was in prison i created an organization called uh choose one which stood for could hip-hop overthrow
44:14oppressive sentencing enactments you know and it was like to me a lot of the cats wasn't like really
44:20being involved especially in the hip-hop industry wasn't being involved in change you know and it's like okay
44:25yeah we spew that out but um when it come to actually trying to help overturn some it wasn't
44:32happening so one of the things i would like to definitely see is a lot of these enhancements
44:37which three strikes is one uh be the uh repealed because the enhancements is what basically contributes
44:44to mass incarceration you know your your original term might be three years but your enhancements
44:50might be 30. you know you get 30 years just on enhancement so it's like uh my my main thing is
44:56to try to just knock out these enhancements because if you knock out enhancements you knock out half the
45:00prison population uh raymond all right so for me you know we um we teamed up with the innocence project
45:10in new york and we wound up getting the law passed where now custodial interrogations have to be uh
45:16recorded from beginning right because we want people to see the whole process not just the gift wrapping of
45:22a videotape that somebody's confessed to a crime they didn't commit we want you to actually see the whole
45:27process of how long a person can sit in that interrogation room you know because in our case
45:32it's estimated that we was in those rooms for 15 to 30 hours right and so you know we wound up getting
45:38that pass in new york state but now we have become strategic and when i mean strategic i mean you know
45:44when i meet us i mean the exonerated five when we go out and speak and we you know the message is now
45:49that we need our children to occupy those spaces not to be afraid to be prosecutors and police officers
45:56and judges you know in order to change the system we have to think strategically and it's a long it's
46:02a process it's you know we have to think long term we have to plan see them every day and even if we
46:08don't get to see them grow our kids will be the fruit you know i'm saying they'll be able to benefit
46:13from it and so for us it was about being strategic and giving these kids the message that they can be
46:18whatever they want to be and they can't be afraid like you know it was fine at one point you know
46:23rappers basketball players and actors and now we're telling them no you can go beyond that you can
46:30grab you can be a senator you know saying barack has told us that you can the press and so you know
46:35for us it's about having these kids and telling them that we need to occupy these spaces because
46:40the system is built on numbers and you know if same thing with these protests if you show up with
46:46five people they laugh at you you show up with 50 people they might give you a knock but now we're
46:51showing up with thousands and now they want to sit down they want to talk to us and find out what do
46:55we need how can they help black lives matter and that's what it's about it's about showing them
47:00the power that we have the power of the vote the power that we can summon you know 50 000 people to
47:05protest at any given time that our voices need to be heard and so we need our youth to strategize and
47:12if you want to be a forensic scientist if you want to be a d8 go get that position and then once you
47:18occupy these positions you start to make that change don't cut no corners do your job to the
47:24best of your ability you know you see kim fox in chicago who's prosecuting and she's doing extremely
47:29well when she's starting to see receive death threats you know saying and and those are people
47:35that we have to we have people who are actually doing the work and who are doing they're not cutting
47:39corners and they're not letting the system get away with the stuff that they've been pulling for the last
47:44400 years chaka you'll be our last word um what do you want to see in the criminal justice uh reform
47:53police reform so i think a few things uh i've been you know in close proximity and a lot of the reforms
48:00has taken place over the last five or six years and i want to see more of that uh we've worked in
48:06california we're helping get lifers out of prison uh increasing the age of what it means to be a
48:11juvenile up to 26 years old with a juvenile brain is just actually reaching adulthood
48:18um in michigan where i'm from originally from michigan i live in cali now i want to see the the
48:23the application of the work we put in to repeal the uh juvenile lifers you know a lot of we overturned
48:31that law but they haven't made it retroactive and i want to see the application of that because a lot
48:35of my friends fall up under that meaning they went to prison when they were 15 16 17 years old
48:40and they've been in there over 30 years uh some earloin pointed out earlier is the work he was
48:46doing inside prison for a lot of us like i've been doing prison activist work for about 30 years now
48:51from the day i walked in prison and started rebelling because it was important uh but there
48:56are some key organizations uh cut 50 which is one uh reform alliance um anti-recidivism coalition
49:06uh you know so many of these organizations you can all find them at redeemed soul which is a platform
49:10i created for people to just come to see what work is being done prison creative arts project so there's
49:16various levels of work being done but we need more transparency sadly a lot of society don't know how
49:22our prison system works there's over 50 different prison systems there's federal and then each state
49:28has its own iteration and they don't all look the same you know what we were doing at san quentin like that
49:34doesn't happen in michigan some of the stuff that's happened in new york with the debate clubs that
49:38doesn't happen in georgia so there's a lot of different things happening figuring out what things
49:43are working really well putting our eyes on that demanding our people get behind that to erlon's
49:48point about the hip-hop community i've been fortunate to be able to work with you know with ti and uh and
49:53a few other who actually stepped up but we need that voice because they profited off the storytelling of
50:01street guys for real and then all of them have homeboys who are locked up and so you know i go
50:07back to when naz drop ill medic and he wrote one love to me that was one of the greatest acts of
50:13contributing to criminal justice reform because he was humanizing his friend at the time and i think
50:19that these artists got a great opportunity to help us amplify these stories and really get the word out
50:24in a meaningful way so you know going to these organizations listening to ear hustle uh following
50:30an innocent project coming to redeem soul reform alliance cut 50 all these amazing organizations
50:36and having conversations like this and we're deeply appreciative of you bro giving us the space
50:40to have this conversation because this reaches a different part of our community
50:44definitely uh ladies and gentlemen um that is our dear black men uh summit um um the home edition of
50:54it or should i say segment of it um brought to you by essence so we got a salute essence in the team over
51:00there um everybody involved i would start shouting names but then i leave somebody out to my tight
51:06you know and i start i start getting mean tweets or something i don't want to get into all that
51:10yeah but yeah rich for sure yo he the big boss so you can shout him out yeah yeah that's my dude
51:19that's my guy that's my guy right there yeah gentlemen thank you so much man and and and listen man
51:28uh we got a lot of work to do uh you gentlemen i i'm just looking at your faces man y'all are ready for
51:34the marathon and it's a blessing to have you on the front lines doing the work man and whatever we
51:39can do uh like you articulated very well we're behind you and we're gonna keep getting that money
51:45to you and getting that support to you so you can keep doing that work appreciate that appreciate it
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