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00:00:00really difficult situation we've been down i i came down after storm chandra and had a really
00:00:04good look around and spoke to lots of people um my assistant rachel who's sitting on the floor here
00:00:11um was down first thing tuesday morning um and spent the morning down here and we've been back
00:00:18down there this morning and had a look there is more damage that has happened overnight
00:00:22um the one section of the road has now completely gone all the way back to the grass verge um so
00:00:33you know sarah wollaston managed to get some money because the road had gone as far as the halfway
00:00:39line there is absolutely no question now about how far the road has gone because there is a
00:00:44complete breach i think you're probably all aware of that um so so just to update you on what i've
00:00:49been doing um since monday night i immediately started asking for a meeting with the department
00:00:54for transport um one of the ministers is not in westminster at the moment for personal reasons the
00:00:59other two are just happened this week that there's a railways bill committee so they are they were busy
00:01:06in the bill committee so they weren't able to sit down with me face to face but i did meet five
00:01:12senior officials from the department for transport and they were quite senior officials i mean they were
00:01:16sort of the top dogs um weirdly one of them had a grandmother who lived in tall cross so she spent
00:01:22all her holidays in tall cross so we had someone in the room who who could visualize the road who
00:01:27absolutely knows the place um which helped and um obviously they're civil servants right so they can't
00:01:36make a decision about spending um but they listened uh they heard what i had to say um and
00:01:42they talked about a fund which was set up in the spending review um by the labor government um it's a
00:01:50billion pound structures fund and it seems that that has been conceived and designed to help with
00:01:59structures like bridges and tunnels so we had a conversation and and in the explanation of the fund
00:02:05it does talk about extreme weather events so i asked them whether that could be used for a road
00:02:11instead of a bridge or a tunnel it's not clear they weren't sure the fund isn't actually in place yet
00:02:18they are currently going through a consultation with councils about how councils would like that money
00:02:23to be used so that is a long process that you know that's going to take quite a long time for that
00:02:29to come on stream um but i put the marker down i spoke in a debate that afternoon and there was a
00:02:35transport minister in the room and i raised that again um so and i spoke to her privately later on i
00:02:41managed to catch her when we were voting on uh tuesday evening and we talked again about that
00:02:46structures fund so so that is something that is out there she said you wouldn't be guaranteed to get
00:02:51money from it because there will always be more requests for money than there is money available but i just
00:02:56want you to know that that that that exists and that's something that i am now aware of
00:03:02i'm working on the good news is i have a minister have a ministerial meeting on wednesday
00:03:07next week so i will be sitting down with the minister on wednesday next week
00:03:11now obviously i know that the the immediate impact of this is on the local communities i'm fully
00:03:16aware of that that you're all going to be severely affected by not being able to drive up and down
00:03:20the a379 but i think also going into that meeting i will push the case for the wider
00:03:26area and all the people who are using that road as a through road so because they're going to look
00:03:31at the map and they're going to say well you know there's just a few little villages um so so so
00:03:36part of my argument is that this is actually used by thousands of people who who are not local
00:03:42as well and it's it's important to be vital to the local economy i'm i'm under no illusion about how
00:03:48important this road is but but really i wanted to get you all together to just my plea is this
00:03:56first of all everybody is going to have to be patient we've had so many emails this week saying
00:04:02is the road going to reopen but i think all of you will be aware that um there's an awful lot of work
00:04:09going on at the moment just to make things safe um you know putting some more boulders in place trying
00:04:15to prevent more damage we're really worried about the houses on the front it's not just the road
00:04:21i know that some of those houses are shaking really badly so we've been in touch with the
00:04:26environment agency we've written to the ministry for housing and local communities about the the
00:04:33housing situation we've written to the flooding minister and asked her to come down
00:04:37um and we've written to who's the other one i think so yeah the environment agency mhclg transport
00:04:47and flooding um so we're trying to cover all bases but there's a huge amount of work to do and i've got
00:04:52steve melano here who might who is happy to answer questions steve's the deputy ceo southam's district
00:04:58council he's been on site a lot since um storm chandra um and he can maybe he knows more about the
00:05:06technical side of what's going on than i do um and laurel is here she's a local district councillor
00:05:12we were expecting julian um he probably hasn't been able to park but he did say he would he would come
00:05:17but it's quite a complicated jigsaw with the environment agency devon county council and south
00:05:22hams in terms of who's in charge of roads who's in charge of coastal protection who's in charge of
00:05:29flooding um you know the environment agency is responsible for that sea wall in front of the
00:05:33houses in tall cross so it's a really complicated picture so no decision has been made and no
00:05:39decision will be made in the next few days and i really appeal to you all to just accept that this
00:05:45is a fast moving situation and things are still changing every time we have high tides every time
00:05:51the wind comes in there is going to be a little bit more damage and we cannot we have to wait until
00:05:57things settle down a little bit to see what it is we're actually dealing with because what we were
00:06:00dealing with last week isn't what we were dealing with on tuesday morning that's not what we're
00:06:04dealing with today it keeps changing and so my plea is just that that we all have a little bit of
00:06:11patience and just one other thing i have had hundreds of suggestions about what we can do
00:06:19getting the americans in to pay for it
00:06:21rebuilding the shingle bank bridges and you know you name it we have a suggestion so
00:06:33you know i welcome all ideas but can i just say that a lot of these ideas have been floating around
00:06:38for many many years and have been looked at by experts people much cleverer than me who have you know
00:06:43knowledge of civil engineering and structural engineering um so we probably don't need any
00:06:48more suggestions at the moment about what what we could do because because they're all out there
00:06:53already and and they've all been considered and um you know nothing's off the table at the moment but
00:07:00obviously everything comes down to funding and some of those ideas i mean i would you know a beautiful
00:07:04bridge would be lovely but how many billions would that cost um and sadly we don't live in sweden or
00:07:11finland where they would probably would um but anyway i that's enough for me so i want to hear from
00:07:17you um can we try and keep this as sort of relax and as we can i know it's a really stressful situation
00:07:26but um i do not have a magic wand and i'd just like you all to remember that if i did i would wave it
00:07:32um so i'll just ask for hands up and um we'll start at that end of the room could you could you say who
00:07:40you are before you yes certainly my name's um kevin i'm an area manager for the camp and caravan and club
00:07:46and we have obviously a business up at slackton and um obviously we have a lot of customers using
00:07:52that road to get to sites so where we appreciate naturally this has just happened there's got to be
00:07:57collaboration amongst many different departments many different councils i suppose really intrigued
00:08:03me moving forward will there be somewhere or some focal point where businesses will be contacted
00:08:10or we can contact somebody centrally will there be any updates coming out later down the line really
00:08:16that's that's pretty much it um yeah thank you so for those of you outside did you hear that
00:08:21no okay sorry our speaker
00:08:28they're camping and caravan club and they're just asking if businesses can have a central point of
00:08:32contact for communications um that is i don't have an answer to that but we'll take that away that's a
00:08:37really good idea um i think we are very aware that there needs to be a cascade of calls coming down
00:08:43from decision makers down through probably through parish councils um but we'll make a note of that thank
00:08:50kevin if you could give your details to one of my team or somebody here before you go that would be
00:08:56great thank you thank you thank you thank you and personally caroline thank you very much for coming
00:09:03down my name is john barberstock and i used to be district council before in this particular area
00:09:09that would be 10 12 15 years ago now but at that time there was a document released called the shoreline
00:09:19management strategy uh in which it did say that hall sands as the modern hall sands was going to be left
00:09:26of the nature and the beast sands and port cross would be protected um in the future is that document still
00:09:36standing and if so who do you consider to be the relevant authority that has to carry that forward
00:09:46thank you john and can i just say i forgot to say my introduction i am very aware that there's
00:09:50been a lot of damage at b sands and all sands as well and this is not just about tall cross hi julia
00:09:55do you want to come and sit down um yes so so i'm very aware of b sands issues as well there is a
00:10:05shoreline management plan um it is different where there are properties and and it changes where the
00:10:12properties end and the other properties but i think maybe steve do you want to talk about that do you want
00:10:16the microphone thank you very much caroline um so yes i've been to be sounds as well and um the damage
00:10:27whilst not the same is still relatively significant to the where the green was and so the shoreline
00:10:33management plan fully enough we were talking about that last night on a call in terms of getting that
00:10:39out looking at where it talks about managed retreat because there's areas of b sounds where it talks about
00:10:45manage retreat as well as protect so um i was on a call last night with um caroline and the environment
00:10:52agency and devon county council colleagues and what we're trying to do is pull together a group that
00:10:58looks at the what are the technical options and how much they cost what's the actual legal position
00:11:05about what was agreed that we would do the other people that we didn't mention caroline that are
00:11:10important particularly in tall cross is the natural england as an agency because they've got
00:11:14a vested interest in the lay so it's a really complicated situation and we're trying to
00:11:21get that position clear so that all agencies are working off the same page which at the minute
00:11:28everybody's looking at their bit of the asset trying to work out what they're going to do about
00:11:32their bit of the asset and what we need now is to get a whole plan together with everybody working
00:11:38together and i emailed um one of julian's directors yesterday to say that this should be a sort of
00:11:44co-chaired group by devon county council and southlands council working with all the other agencies
00:11:51and in answer to the earlier question kevin one of the things that i pointed out is that as well as
00:11:57sort of what are we going to do in the interim period in terms of infrastructure and recovery and roads and
00:12:03so on but communication is key parts of that recognize that for businesses for all the residents
00:12:09it's going to be a key issue going forward and that needs to be a whole sort of have a plan around
00:12:15communication as well as a plan about what we're going to do so that probably only answers your
00:12:20question a little bit but we looked we were aware of it and we're looking at it right i was just
00:12:27interested in that actual strategy was still in existence i believe it is
00:12:34the other thing in the room to me appears to be the million tons of jingles taken across from
00:12:40what is 18th 19th 7th onwards uh what's very bad and every time we have a store i've known
00:12:46is there any possibility of including and jane morrison in his studies
00:13:04can that now be put into the uh into the mix to replace the seri bag to lower these divides
00:13:11um i mean as caroline said there's lots of suggestions of what we can do but ultimately it
00:13:20will come down to the relevant agencies saying whether that's a viable plan and whether the
00:13:25funding is is there i mean one of the issues that be sounds is the fact that the beach has dropped so
00:13:31many meters in the last few weeks and what's happened is because the um the rock armor was effectively on
00:13:40the shingles the shingles now gone and the rock armor has dropped away and and the most effective
00:13:45defense certainly from the few days that i've been looking at this um has been at the far side of these
00:13:51sands where you look at the angle of all the big boulders and the scale of it and that of course
00:13:59dissipates a lot of the the waves before they actually hit the wall whereas if you look at tall cross
00:14:06there's there's nothing like that sort of level it's almost just a straight wall that the waves are
00:14:11bashing into so yeah absolutely yeah i should say just just a piracy for everyone i'm not an engineer
00:14:24i was a telephone engineer in my previous experience that's as much as my engineering background goes so
00:14:29um don't ask me too many technical questions i'm just going to ask julian if he wants to say anything
00:14:36or are you um as you've managed to squeeze away yeah no no thank thank you caroline and it's fantastic
00:14:45to see everyone here i'm sorry that we're here in the circumstances um just to say that that i think that
00:14:54we can talk about technical things and what we could do and what happened 150 years ago uh as far
00:15:02as sort of dredging and taking shingle out of the stark bay area but the bottom line is is that we need
00:15:09money um to do any of those whatever we decide to do we're going to need money and the county just does
00:15:14not have that kind of money lying around we found a bit of money and we will be using that to invest in
00:15:21the back roads um and i think you know you may have said that we that was a you know let's be a
00:15:27fair christen to say that we should have been doing that a lot quicker a lot area and i accept that and
00:15:33you know but it hindsight's a wonderful thing um and also i would say that there's always been a constant
00:15:39tension between those who feel that all any money we get we should be using to defend the line and
00:15:46those saying no no you know it's going to go at some point so we need to be looking to make uh
00:15:52make those adaptations to the roads behind so that that sort of quit a bit but i i accept that
00:15:57that is the thing anyway we found extra money for that and we will be looking to put and implement that
00:16:02asap um we've also found some extra money in respect or buses because we know that that's a very important
00:16:10uh aspect for many of the people who want to get um particularly from stoke and jillington into
00:16:17kingsbridge uh but that that is pales into insignificance to the tens of millions that we would need to
00:16:26defend the line and that will only come from government and you know caroline's done a great job getting a
00:16:32meeting with the minister on wednesday um and we will see what happens from that but i don't
00:16:38you know there is there is no magic wand that we can wave and go we will fix that and we've got pots
00:16:44of money that we will find we just do not have that um so you know we're waiting to see what governments
00:16:52say they may say and i think we have to you know and i hear people saying that if we give up on the line
00:16:59we're being defeatist and everything like that but i think the other thing is that we have you know
00:17:03that is a sense of pragmatism and realism and that is that should we spend 20 million pounds replacing
00:17:10the road only for next year to be washed away again and probably it will still be there well you know
00:17:17well okay so let's send 100 million doing it and then maybe in 10 years it won't be there i think
00:17:22that we had to come to a decision about you know do we actually say that this is it and it's gone
00:17:31and any monies we're going to invest in the back roads we're going to invest it in the communities
00:17:36around start bay in uh and uses that um but you know that is a question that we have to ask and people
00:17:43will have different opinions and i totally get that uh and and i respect that but those are the sorts of
00:17:49decisions that we're going to be have to be making and you as a community will be very much
00:17:54part of that but then there is the bigger community isn't it we're all here and it's a fantastic to see
00:17:59so many and everyone outside and i'm sorry they couldn't all get in but you know we're talking
00:18:06hundreds um when we talk things about the dawlish line we're talking thousands tens of thousands hundreds
00:18:12of thousands and i think that you know we have to be realistic that the government is probably not
00:18:18going to spend that 50 million to protect us for because there's just not enough of us and that's
00:18:27the political reality of it um and the cost benefit analysis that they will do so you know i'm sorry
00:18:33if that's not what people wanted to hear and they wanted here to say we're going to get all this money
00:18:37but caroline is going to have that meeting with the minister hopefully you know they will say who knows
00:18:42they may say yeah you can have it and absolutely will crack on with that um but i think we have to
00:18:48be realistic and that may not be the case
00:18:52thank you for projecting a note of joy into the proceedings right there was a hand up over here
00:19:01uh it's gone down now i think but i'll take you first and then you okay thank you um so thank you
00:19:10for all caroline for being here it is fabulous that you're here with all these people my name is
00:19:14natalie i'm a slapton resident i also have a business on torcross um so firstly as a community thank you
00:19:23um so firstly um as a community torcross actually have got together and we are forming an action
00:19:32group so that we can help you have one conduit into the torcross community so that you don't have
00:19:38to always have very big meetings um so we'd like to form that so that we can help you we do see this
00:19:44as a two-way relationship where you're helping us but we also want to help you so if that's with things
00:19:49like um hosting ministerial visits um signatures photos videos case studies data petitions having
00:19:57an aligned message with publicity that kind of thing we're all in we want to do that um so that's
00:20:03the first one secondly i'd like to ask four things um the first one is we understand that you have very
00:20:11kindly submitted a question um or submitted the opportunity to have a question at prime minister's
00:20:16questions next wednesday and for that we're very grateful and we'd like to ask that you continue
00:20:20to raise this at government at the highest level secondly and this goes to julian's points we believe
00:20:27that one line to try to help you with getting this funding um from this new budget you've talked about
00:20:34the billion i think is that it's it's not that we're asking to replace a road for no reason there is
00:20:43no adaptation plan in place there is no alternative we do not actually have an alternative this was
00:20:50spoken about 15 20 years ago and for whatever reason and we're not blaming anyone but there is
00:20:56literally no alternative and i think that's a really good line because it's very difficult to ask for money
00:21:03it may not look economically viable but you said it's just a few villages and it's not as
00:21:09big as other projects 300 000 um visitors every year um there are 4 000 cars on that road every day
00:21:18it's just not possible for that to be on that tiny back road so so that is our our second ask the
00:21:25first one keep the visibility with prime minister questions two um is to use this line potentially with
00:21:32securing funding with the structures fund and also not putting all eggs in one basket of course we want
00:21:38to still continue your questions with the department of transport the the next thing the third thing
00:21:44is the village the mention of the shoreline management plan the wording in that actually says to maintain
00:21:52as long as is technically possible so that gives us some hope but also there's not a lot of reassurance
00:22:00because we don't know what's technically possible so again a plea to keep your good work with um defra the
00:22:08environmental the environmental agency to absolutely put that forward because you experienced it yourself
00:22:14this morning with the shaking um and and then the final thing is that we wondered if there is such
00:22:20thing as a crisis and resilience fund for the problems right now because there are people with
00:22:25sewage in their backyards in their houses feel like they have earthquakes they can't live there um
00:22:31and so is there some sort of immediate fund that we could look towards
00:22:45thank you natalie um i really welcome community involvement i think that is going to help um and
00:22:52you know if i can if we can cascade messages down through local networks it makes it a lot easier than
00:22:58trying to to find people to give us the information we need so i really appreciate that um anybody who
00:23:04was watching prime minister's questions yesterday will have seen me standing up and sitting down for 45
00:23:08minutes i and i did write to this mr speaker beforehand to tell him that i had an urgent issue that i wanted to
00:23:14ask about um prime minister's questions is completely random you get pulled out of a ballot if you don't
00:23:20get pulled out of the ballot you have to bob obviously yesterday was all about um the disgusting
00:23:26epstein um stuff and there wasn't much space that went on for so long there wasn't much space for
00:23:32people bobbing usually more people get taken so unfortunately um i didn't but i you know i try i i try most
00:23:39most weeks um this will be the question i will ask if i get get a shot um in terms of prices and
00:23:46resilience fund i think i think there's always money down the back of a sofa government can always find
00:23:50money when they need to um it's about trying to get your voice heard and you know you none of you
00:23:59will be under any illusions that this is not a political um it's not a part of the country that
00:24:08is politically crucial for the labour party is it you know the the money it's no surprise that the
00:24:13money is all going into northern rail and things like that 45 billion into northern rail well you know
00:24:21let's take a guess at why that is um so that makes it harder you know a county that's full of
00:24:27lib dem and tory mps it's not really where the labour government is going to put their money so
00:24:33you know there's not much any of us can do about that political reality but you know i will ask every
00:24:40opportunity and it's obviously not just about the roads it is about the village and i did experience
00:24:44the shaking it was quite frightening um and i think that's something you know we we've already taken away
00:24:50we've already written to the environment agency about it and we will think about who else we need to
00:24:55talk to you about that i mean you know the long term future of those houses i don't know i'm no expert
00:25:00but you know they don't live very secure at the moment um but that's obviously there's obviously a
00:25:08lot of the village that is not in that situation and not on the on the front so that shoreline management
00:25:14plan for the village is really important um and as in terms of the adaptation plan i mean that worked
00:25:19did stall and we tried to get it going after i was elected and we got an adaptation manager in place
00:25:25and um you know laurel and julian worked really hard on getting the slapton um group back up and running and
00:25:33um you know and and anthony did good work with the partnership as well but i think julian's right it
00:25:38has been quite difficult to make progress because there have been so many different views about what that
00:25:44progress should look like it has been really hard to focus minds on the back roads and the adaptation
00:25:52and the resilience and what needs to happen because there was so much always so much focus on on the
00:25:58the road the a379 itself you know and let's not all beat ourselves up about the fact that that you
00:26:05know we are where we are we have to go forward with that julian says there is some extra money from devon
00:26:09and um you know we need to make the best use of it and and because whatever happens with the main
00:26:15road it's going to be closed for a long time we all know that right i mean even if we find the money
00:26:19to rebuild it it's going to be closed for a year at least i would imagine um so we're going to have to
00:26:24look at the alternative routes and think about signage and directions and who's going where and some more
00:26:29public transport and car sharing and all the rest of it um and yeah anyway i hope that answers your your
00:26:38points so there's a little bit back
00:26:47we are empty and we will be empty we normally get through this period and then the tourists comes in
00:26:56and we pick up and we hold the money till the summer now we employ people single moms we contribute to the
00:27:04community what we need is a bit of hope because we can keep trying to fund it ourselves but unless
00:27:13we can get some money in these little pubs and villages these little pubs and businesses like
00:27:19we're going to shut there's no doubt about it we've probably got enough for about a month and then after
00:27:26that so i've got 14 members of staff but it's not just me it's other people so it's torques is horrendous
00:27:35but there are things that if people can i mean great we're getting plenty of support from locals
00:27:42and that's lovely but it's the people that come in and and now it's a short term hearing from me
00:27:49yeah thank you for your question um for employing so many local people and and i'm i'm really aware
00:27:56that for businesses this is a real blow and you know both businesses operating with tourists here
00:28:01but also you know people trying to get to and from work as well as it's it's it's a major blow
00:28:08what i what i would say is i i would imagine by the time the weather warms up the tourists will
00:28:12still come i mean things will look different people will still come here
00:28:16i'm not just like i'm going to set up a a group a whatsapp group to answer the diving caravan club
00:28:24and we're all going to meet next week to try to be a link uh like to all cross after you great okay
00:28:32try and help you to say look this business is really weak is there any money okay i'm i'm going to pass
00:28:38over to julian on this thank you you know thanks kathy lovely to see you and bali there um just on
00:28:46that and i want people just to sort of put put behind the idea that what i'm going to talk about now
00:28:50um you know those that are adamant that absolutely whatever happens the road has got to rebuild whatever
00:28:58we will with that with that will depend on whether we get the government funding for that
00:29:02if we don't get for that and the road is not going to be rebuilt
00:29:05then absolutely what we need to do is to turn the whole of that start bay area into a destination
00:29:13it would probably be one of the uh biggest best wildlife areas in the whole country
00:29:22so so we will not have people driving past or through traffic but what we will do is we need to turn that
00:29:29into a destination so that everyone wants to come there to get their e-bikes to cycle to ride to kayak
00:29:37to paddleboard all those things that people love about being in devon albeit if you live in dartmouth
00:29:44you're probably not going to be able to get to tour although if we saw that some bikes at street gate
00:29:51then they absolutely can and so what i'm saying is that i don't you know i think that there is
00:29:58a massive opportunity here as well uh that we can turn it into one of the top destinations in the whole
00:30:06of not only devon but probably the country that everyone wants to come here i've seen people walking
00:30:11up and down that road now with no cars saying isn't this lovely i love it i know that winds people up
00:30:17but you know that is another thoughts that people have so what uh what the county are providing
00:30:26going to provide to caroline to go to the meeting on wednesday with is first of all this is what it
00:30:32will cost to replace the line so that's one bid but the second bid will be all around the adaptation
00:30:39uh and that will include turning it into a destination again that will cost money but you
00:30:47know that may be an option the government goes for um and how are they going to get here
00:30:54well you're absolutely right car parking
00:31:00that historically well it's interesting you say that because because absolutely car parking is one
00:31:07of the areas that we're looking at so at street gate you've got a car park there there's a field behind
00:31:12it that we're looking at buying to increase the car parking capacity at street gate and we need to do the
00:31:18same here at the uh at the tall cross den i mean ollie's i know up at stoke lee for example that could be
00:31:27uh an area so people will get here they get to tottenest cross and they can go left or right
00:31:33but they will still get here uh and then they can park and then they can have a fantastic time
00:31:39uh now so that's the sort of ideas and plans that we're talking on i hope that the community if that's
00:31:46where we go will be behind that and support it and bring it forward sorry if the road was not to be
00:31:55replaced would natural england be um supportive of making it into a destination and actually allowing
00:32:03people to use that body of water not with boats with engines but like paddle boards would they
00:32:09allow people to use that body of water well i can't i can't speak from natural england but i
00:32:14absolutely hear what you're saying yeah absolutely absolutely so those that we're doing and again
00:32:19is probably something that we should have been talking about and doing it before man anyway that
00:32:24you know that's that's a vision and it may be the community has a different vision
00:32:28how are you going to consult people on that vision you're you're formulating ideas and
00:32:34putting them forward but well i mean people that live here and is that what they want i mean well i
00:32:40mean we are here you know with a massive meeting with everyone here they've heard a particular view
00:32:46people will make their their points known and their and their ideas put them forward but i think you
00:32:52know we have to start somewhere you know otherwise it's it's lots of disparate voices saying disparate
00:32:58things i've put forward a plan and a vision people can knock it down or take it forward or whatever
00:33:05but you've got to start somewhere uh you know because otherwise we would just end up talking and
00:33:10talking and talking and nothing would happen so sometimes you know you've got to you've got to grasp
00:33:16it and say right this is what we're going to do we're going to bite bite the bullet and press on
00:33:20and people can get involved or not as they do and there will be the naysayers and i accept that there
00:33:26always are but hopefully there will be a majority of the community that think you know what it's been
00:33:32an absolute catastrophe for us uh and we accept that but what can we make good out of what has
00:33:38happened and and and that's that's that's what i hope if the road is not replaced
00:33:46i think i think we're not there yet we don't know what's going to happen
00:33:50the of course there will be proper consultation i will make sure that there is proper full
00:33:58consultation with all communities about what happens next um once we've been able to make
00:34:03some decisions i'm going to take a couple more questions so maybe here we've got some questions
00:34:09over here we'll come to you in a minute so just i guess i'd like some clarity i think it would be
00:34:14good for everyone here i think it would be really useful for everyone here and going forward to be
00:34:20a bit more honest about what's been going on which is that you've known for maybe 10 years that that
00:34:26road was not going to be fixed that it was not financially viable and you're talking with all respect
00:34:32about you know it's going to be an amazing nature reserve and we can kayak there but but the reality is that all
00:34:39these communities that are affected it's not just a few hundred people there's thousands of people
00:34:44and businesses and jobs families it's like it's all good enough to say that and i really believe that
00:34:51you're right it's not going to be fixed they're not going to get the money let's be honest about that
00:34:55but this is not something that's happened this week it's been happening for years and we need to
00:35:01understand as a community exactly like natalie said how do we communicate with the people where do we go
00:35:07so rather than just saying it's possible we're not going to do it we're not going to get money
00:35:11we need to know from you where we direct what we're going to say we need to know who's who's the
00:35:18top dog here who has the i mean it's obviously government are going to give the money but you say oh
00:35:23it's so complicated we've got the environment agency we've got natural england we've got devon
00:35:28council we've got southam council who gets to decide because as far as we know in slackton natural
00:35:34england have made decisions but then making them from a desk so so you have to help us understand
00:35:40as a community that are fighting for their homes and their businesses and their communities their
00:35:45children going forward we're talking about this road but this is also about your community your
00:35:50responsibility we pay our council tax we pay for this what where do we go you have to tell us where
00:35:56we like how the structure like where we go what we do this is the conversation we need to be having
00:36:09okay so where do we lobby who's gets the final decision you know of course you're fighting for
00:36:14us caroline and i really appreciate your efforts in government i really do as i'm sure we all do and
00:36:20we will be behind you and do everything we can to support that but the bit where you go it's such
00:36:26a complicated structure and everyone's blah blah blah it's all this but somebody somewhere will be
00:36:31making decisions and we need to understand that we are the people that are directly affected by
00:36:36what's happening not just the shaking houses we have to understand that and if you don't know the
00:36:41answer you need to find that out straight away and tell us really i think the reality is that there
00:36:46isn't one person who's going to make this decision it's going to be all those different bodies it's
00:36:50going to be a conversation it's going to depend on the funding and then it's going to have to be a
00:36:55conversation between all the stakeholders natural england devon county council the community um but if if
00:37:01the money isn't forthcoming then the road can't be rebuilt because devon county council doesn't have
00:37:07the money now what i can do is i can set up a petition and we can start sending it round and we can try and
00:37:12get you know thousands of signatures and if we do it on the if we do it as a parliamentary petition
00:37:20then i can present i can present the petition in parliament that's a bit of a tongue twister um
00:37:26but if you get a hundred thousand signatures it has to be debated in front of a minister in
00:37:32Westminster hall and i've done several of those um those debates um i don't know whether you can get
00:37:39a hundred thousand people to sign it but we're willing to set one up this afternoon and um you
00:37:44know we can send it around and you can start sharing um i mean i know that there are people
00:37:48all over the world who love the slaps and lines so you know it could go far and wide i suggest that
00:37:53that's somewhere to start but but you know i i do think you know i i wasn't going to start talking
00:38:00about turning turning it into a nature reserve today i think it's a bit early for that i think we're still in
00:38:05the in the grief phase but um i i i think julian's right that there has to be a little bit of pragmatism
00:38:11and realism about the situation and and and that this is is way beyond you know either julian or me
00:38:18or steve um because because none of us have got that that kind of money and you know somebody somewhere
00:38:26is going to make a decision about that and and all i can do is is is try and make your your voice
00:38:34heard as strongly as possible but obviously it's not my decision um there's a gentleman here you've
00:38:39been very patient robin rose price um nobody has mentioned the southwest coast path which is worth
00:38:49tens of millions of pounds to the southwest peninsula it runs alongside the a379 there is no viable
00:39:00alternative for that path continue so in future will the southwest coast path be only 400 miles long
00:39:09instead of 600 miles long well i think i think the coast path is safe for as long as the shingle bridge
00:39:16is there um i think that you know the coast path will always go alongside it whether the road is
00:39:21there or not and actually what i'm told is that that if the tarmac isn't there the shingle ridge
00:39:28is actually much more sustainable because of the way the shingle moves and works that the tarmac is
00:39:34actually kind of preventing the shingle doing its job you know that ridge is not it's not going
00:39:38anywhere it's it's very unlikely to be breached you know lots of people think if the road goes
00:39:43the shingle bank will go it's very unlikely that there'll be a hole in the bank um so but that's
00:39:49a good point for the petition south west coast path people there's probably a few thousand of them
00:39:54get them to sign as well right
00:40:00thank you um a question really for julian um on the practicality of an alternative route now there are
00:40:08back roads that are very narrow and we all know they're a nightmare could we not make some of them
00:40:14one way now and then we can actually get somewhere yeah no i i think that's a good point and that's and
00:40:28like i said i think i think the criticism that we haven't advanced that kind of thinking is absolutely
00:40:34fair uh and we should have if i'm perfectly honest yeah no absolutely so we were as it happens ironically
00:40:43we were were meant to be having a meeting today talking about the back roads uh but because of
00:40:49circumstances that has been delayed cancelled well not cancelled delayed we will be having that as soon
00:40:55as possible um i i don't know if it's if it's public facing but funnily enough there is a uh
00:41:07dan and lou from south half district council that a fantastic interactive map where you could look at
00:41:13all the back roads uh and where the pinch points were where the blind spots were where where there were
00:41:20passing spaces where there weren't and that's what we are using to make the adaptations and the upgrades
00:41:27for the road so that would be an opportunity to say this should be one way that should be the other way
00:41:32inevitably from my experience when you do that there are there are always those who think it should
00:41:37be the other way around or feel that it's and i'm afraid you know again that you when not everyone is
00:41:44going to agree i i you know we understand that um so i suppose it's it's it's for us to take that
00:41:50decision in consultation with you as far as the lady here said i think that the slapton line partnership
00:41:56as a as a um as a group will become the main uh consultation area where decisions might not necessarily
00:42:07be taken but they will be pushing forward suggestions to um other departments so i think it was through
00:42:14them all the parish councils are represented on on the slapton line partnership so that's that would
00:42:22help but i i just thinking out loud i think the slapton line partnership will take on that that role
00:42:37thank you caroline hi my name's bonnie i live on tour cross seafront in sea breeze cottage with my
00:42:46parents we are full-time residents um the line obviously is a huge debate and i understand all of
00:42:54that and it's dreadful we're lucky enough to for some second home owners to have given us their home to
00:42:59live in because we are not safe in our home on the seafront myself and i'm sure a lot of the tour cross
00:43:07residents here want to know if it is safe for us to go into our houses from homely road watching the
00:43:15storm every night is absolutely terrifying within the houses it's apocalyptic i've lived in tour cross
00:43:24for 20 years and i can quite safely say that this is scarier than it's ever been it is like i just
00:43:34i don't know who we're supposed to speak to when again whether it's the council whether it's the
00:43:38environment agency but it seems to me that something is going on underneath our houses and i don't think
00:43:45anybody should be in them on either side on the front or on the back until some kind of structural
00:43:50something i don't know is carried out to say whether our it's i don't really know what else to
00:43:57say but it is this is this is urgent now you know there are people in those houses there's some people
00:44:03in those houses who are still in those houses who we haven't seen for days and um like i said we're
00:44:10lucky enough but we're watching it from afar and i i want to know what's going to happen to the houses
00:44:18right now on tour cross seafront if anybody can help us with that
00:44:27i'm going to pass that over to steve um i'm really sorry that you've had to leave your house
00:44:32bonnie and i can only imagine how terrifying it is having been in one of the houses this morning
00:44:37when the waves were already going down a bit um we have been writing letters one of your neighbors has
00:44:43been sending us photos and talking about the shaking for a while so it's something that we were
00:44:48already looking into i think it's an environment agency thing but i'm going to pass over to steve
00:44:54thank you um so yeah i've also been in some residence houses as well and you're right it is
00:45:01i've never seen anything like it it's awful and i we talked yesterday when i add our engineers down
00:45:09and our view is we need to get um the building control which are effectively structural engineers
00:45:16to examine all the houses to see whether they're safe the environment agency are adamant that their
00:45:21sea defenses are fine and doing their job but um again this morning i i witnessed the shaking and i was
00:45:29stood probably 20 meters away from the edge of the seawall and the shaking was unbelievable so i
00:45:37i'm going to organize devon building control what i've been struggling with and it was interesting
00:45:42about having the um the group is is understanding we've had the police out there for the last and
00:45:48the coast guard checking the residents who are in because it's impossible to tell whether the residents
00:45:53are in properties or not um is basically to make sure that people are okay and the offer of temporary
00:46:00accommodation if they're not um wanting to stay um but i'm going to get the structural engineers to
00:46:07do a proper survey of the properties because i think it's key because i've seen i've witnessed as
00:46:12well you know some of the rooms you can see it moved off the top of the house so yeah it's devastating
00:46:19that yeah so if you give if you go through the parish council that's probably the best chill are you
00:46:26happy for the parish and then we can get the details and we'll organize it through the parish council
00:46:32so did i just answer that as well just to support bolly's question
00:46:43i'm not a permanent resident like bolly but if the insurance company pay up this time
00:46:50and we fix it but you don't put everything else right in place we are all at risk of losing absolutely
00:46:57everything i absolutely understand that
00:47:02i don't know if you're sleeping in your bed at night these people are not
00:47:07i can't see business
00:47:09nobody is sleeping it is just unbelievable and it's all very well to talk about oh a destination
00:47:18where you can go and go cycling you know there's a real issue right now with people
00:47:25i i absolutely i absolutely i absolutely agree with you as far as southampton council concern the
00:47:36issue for us is about people because you are our residents and we need to do whatever we can to
00:47:43support you we we we will do whatever we need to to support you so by all means i'll be here you can
00:47:51give me details afterwards
00:48:02all right okay well can i just uh apologize i've been sensitive about that
00:48:18sorry apologies apologies apologies but i felt i felt i was asked a question around the future and i
00:48:27answered that as honestly as i thought i could but i appreciate that but it wasn't sensitive and i
00:48:32apologize to you about that i think you know but people's likelihoods are at stake yeah no i
00:48:36i understand
00:48:46you know are we going to spend all summer working with our builders getting it done for it to happen
00:48:52again next next next winter this is an emergency yeah well i can i just add something to that as an ex-firefighter for 30 years and i fought fires in
00:49:03in corpora's your everybody's lives are greater at risk now arose out than at any time in the past because
00:49:14if we have an incident now where you need firefighters they're coming from kingsbridge
00:49:19modernbury sulkham right you can imagine how long that's going to take but they're also coming from
00:49:25darkness and if that road is blocked and they can't get through which we've heard many times on
00:49:31the radio and we've got there first to wherever we've got to go from the darker side that's no longer
00:49:38an option coming through the back roads with a seven foot one or seven foot four white
00:49:4311.6
00:49:50thank you for talking about emergency services it is something that's definitely on my
00:49:54list of of organizations to be in touch with and and make sure that you know as part of the
00:50:00work we do on the back roads that we have routes that are fully possible for for vehicles to get in
00:50:05and out easily and quickly which is probably another reason for having some kind of one-way system so
00:50:11that there are fewer blockages if if emergency vehicles want to come through but just in answer to your
00:50:17point i you know that's it's why i called this meeting because i want you to know that i even though i
00:50:23can't actually do anything myself for you and your property and and what's going on i you know i i'm here
00:50:30you know to represent you as a community and i understand that that you know we are so far removed
00:50:38from thinking about this place as a as a nature reserve at the moment you know we're in it we're in a period
00:50:45of emergency and it's about resilience it's about your safety and your security and you know the
00:50:52viability of your properties and i know that you know that is a huge thing because it's not just about
00:50:56money it's your home and you know your parents live there they've probably lived there a very long
00:51:00time i don't know i don't know but you know as your mp i will support you and my i have a really
00:51:12brilliant team so i have five people who are here who are based in the topness and one in london
00:51:17and i can assure you that you know rachel and johnny who are both here today have been working on this
00:51:23since eight o'clock on tuesday morning when i sent them all the message and said the slapton line's
00:51:29gone and i won't tell you what the six responses i got back you can probably imagine um and and you
00:51:35know that's all we've done since and so we're very much aware of of of the you know the difficulty
00:51:41that you're in and the reality that you're facing and how hard it is so you know i use use me as a
00:51:47resource i can push people to do things um you know if steve can't get building control down here
00:51:53i will give them a kick and make sure they get down here and and we get surveys done and and i think
00:51:59there really are questions to ask about that those sea defenses in the village because you know you're
00:52:04clearly feeling something that you weren't feeling before and you know as people keep telling me on
00:52:10facebook whenever i say anything about climate change you say well we've always had storms caroline and we
00:52:14have always had storms and if it is much worse now then you know it might be because the storm's worse
00:52:19but it might also be because something's going on under the underground because the beach level is
00:52:24dropped by two meters the sea defenses are designed to work with the level of shingle as was the beach
00:52:32levels have dropped by two meters exposing the bottom of the sea and that's what's different and that's
00:52:37what's changed that's simply being carried up by a proponent of southwestern wave events in Alaska
00:52:44and the waves are now going actually so it's not even the highest tides it's not even the strongest winds
00:52:50we've had much worse weather than this yeah what's happening is is the sea is now rolling up the sea
00:52:58defenses and dumping right over the top of the houses we've never had that before it's always come at us or
00:53:04we've had splash this isn't splash the waves are coming all the way up the wall and they are breaking
00:53:10on top of the houses so all of the houses are but it's something has changed something is different
00:53:16when you live in those houses you i'm telling you there's something going on underneath and it's really
00:53:22really scary okay all right um is there anybody here who actually lives in b-sands yeah they're outside
00:53:38oh you do as well we've got some b-sands people inside so are you are you near the sea front
00:53:44okay we're going to come over to b-sands after this meeting so maybe if anybody wants to have a
00:53:53chat with us when we go down there um and if anybody's concerned about i'm just thinking in
00:53:58terms of people being concerned about property
00:54:00oh hello are you sort of how is your property at risk yes yes
00:54:18well we're coming down to b-sands after this meeting so we'll have a chat with you when we get over
00:54:22there okay right um we've got another half an hour um yes um it seems almost insignificant
00:54:30after listening to bonnie to speak because it's so dramatic and her and their trauma affects us all
00:54:38but i want to come back to the proposal about um black roads because julie mentioned that they could find
00:54:47some funding they had fans and funding they had fans and funding i live in stokeham and to for me to
00:54:54sometimes get out um i appreciate the fact that you might want to have a boarding business in the future
00:55:02but i don't want to have a boarding business right now and the only back road i can take involves going
00:55:09down to deer bridge where there's a overflowing river um a flood and very very narrow lanes with
00:55:19growth growing in the middle i don't really understand what the back lane proposal is when i moved there in 2000
00:55:29when i lived out that way in 2007 there was as always been a yellow sign which indicated that
00:55:37if you couldn't use the saturn line there would be some alternative route there is no alternative route
00:55:45it's during this time it's been absolutely flooded the road to start the hammock start is flooded
00:55:53um i had to have when i lived at the start i had to have air ambulance when my hip dislocated
00:56:00because you couldn't get emergency services through so when julian talks about they found some funding and
00:56:09they're going to look at back roads where are these back roads please explain let's be specific okay because
00:56:18we can't just so what we're going to do is we is is we will do as much as we can to upgrade the back
00:56:24routes to make them as possible as possible what that means is what that means is that is that where
00:56:30there are blind spots where there are um floods exactly all those sorts of things we will we will put in
00:56:39the funding and the infrastructure to make it more feasible we're not pretending that it's going to
00:56:44replace the line but it will certainly mean outside of the uh outside the holiday seasons that it will
00:56:52mean that local people will be able to get to and from this week last week the week before it's outside
00:57:01the holiday season and if i want to get out say to five mile lane or anywhere like that i've got to go
00:57:09or i want to go through to samton i've got to go through a flood ride through a flood and start on a
00:57:15deer bridge that is your back road well that is one of the back roads i mean the back roads are you
00:57:24know not going to pretend that it's going to be a replacement they won't be uh but we will try and
00:57:29make them as good as possible so that's when we talk about what we're going to do with the back roads
00:57:33there this just helps with asking for money for the road yeah yeah yeah what you're saying because
00:57:38this is what you're saying is rubbish okay
00:57:49exactly and so that where that went even on the way here there was a delivery driver
00:57:54for one hour this is on february the the third yeah yeah so it's not august so the money that we
00:58:02will spend we will do things like hardcore those passing places
00:58:11no i appreciate and i and i feel it i have to i have to use those roads as well
00:58:16this is gold information i think caroline for you asking for the sum of that one billion because
00:58:25this plan is is not a plan that could ever work
00:58:29i mean does everyone approve that okay okay so it doesn't so so what plan does work
00:58:36finding the money from the one million and putting the road in with better defenses
00:58:41and we'll keep it for at least fine okay okay okay so absolutely and i think we'd all agree that
00:58:48that's what we want that's what what happens what happens if government says we're not giving you
00:58:55the resources for that we don't even okay no i understand that okay we're not going to contemplate
00:59:03that but the thing about it is is that this is what i say is and and i think it's a fair criticism
00:59:08but is that we haven't come up with an adaptation plan partly because of that in a way that mindset
00:59:15that we're only going to talk about the road and saving the road and so we're not going to look about
00:59:20the bits behind it and look i i understand why that's it but you know we have to be realistic
00:59:28and pragmatic and think you know well if that road isn't going to be fixed and we're not going to have
00:59:33it what what are we how are we going to make the best of a bad lot there so i think it's about
00:59:38having a dual strategy we don't put all our eggs in one basket we ask for money we do our absolute
00:59:43best to try and replace the road that's plan a we don't present a plan b we don't go and ask for
00:59:49plan b yet because we want the money for the road and then yes in a dual strategy is of course we need
00:59:56to upgrade properly another way and that's going to take a long time compulsory purchase those hedges of
01:00:03devon banks that are highly protected it's definitely not easy and i'm not saying you've
01:00:08got an easy job doing i know that you want to help us but that job is almost way more difficult than
01:00:14putting a bit of tarmac on that shingle barrier but the trouble is it's not just putting a bit of
01:00:18tarmac on top of the shingle barrier because you put a bit of tarmac on top of the shingle barrier and
01:00:23next year these storms come in and wash away again and again and again and again the only way that that
01:00:29road would be protected from the sea is to have a some kind of barrier all the way along which would
01:00:37ruin the beach and and then you've got the whole natural england thing involved with it being a site
01:00:43of science of a special interest it's not as easy as just putting a bit of tarmac back on the shingle
01:00:48bank and i think everybody has to accept that you know that what we what we've seen this week is that
01:00:53you know as the the bit that was protected is fine as soon as the wall as soon as the wall ends
01:01:01that the sea has come round and and washed all the rocks away and washed the tarmac away so
01:01:06i'm sorry i'm going to jump in and and i think the thing with that is it's it's let's get the
01:01:14costing to what the alternatives are so yeah as you said i speak about them but actually when you start
01:01:20talking about how much a new a road would cost if the actual shingle bank fully goes and the lay ends
01:01:26up as the sea where's the new line at the front because it's all the cottages along the other part
01:01:32the a379 that's already lower than the shingle bank yeah it's what's the cost of that what's the cost
01:01:38that if nothing is done and the bank goes because that's the opposite cost of of shoring it up along
01:01:45the whole length and there must be a solution that meets with natural england that means a low
01:01:51some sort of proper barrier along its length stops it from being eroded further in my lifetime i've
01:01:57seen that distance between the road and the beach it was 15 to 20 meters when i was a young lad and went
01:02:02down there with my family it's now back to the road edge and soon if we do nothing it's going to be
01:02:08into the lay and that's a whole different picture we've seen how far it's come into the car park but
01:02:14like i said i think if the road wasn't there the shingle bank would move naturally but we've seen it's
01:02:19moved and that's what's happening yeah i know there's a lady here that's waiting very patiently
01:02:26this is to julian julian you're having a meeting with highways today why weren't the parish councils
01:02:33invited to that meeting you know you you know from these slapton line meetings that we go round and
01:02:43around in circles about these plans these adaptation plans and highways will not engage with the parish
01:02:50councils we have no communication with them they won't reply to our emails they won't communicate with
01:02:58us and they won't listen to our suggestions of alternative routes please please will you get a meeting
01:03:07with highways and the parish council representatives so so jane just just on that the meeting was called
01:03:16actually by by lou from slapton line partnership and it included all the people who were on who were on
01:03:23the inland road workshop yeah well that that's the meeting so that's the meeting i was talking about
01:03:31sorry sorry sorry apologies i meant so and i confused you there so it was that meeting so you weren't
01:03:36excluded at all and and that has been cancelled unfortunately yes it was today so that we're talking
01:03:44about the same meeting
01:03:57we really need a meeting with the highways representatives who represent parishions
01:04:04to all across slapton street and stoke planning we'll sort that out because that the back
01:04:10groups are not fit for purpose we have this emergency now we've been talking about it for years
01:04:18about this alternative plan and highways have completely ignored us we will we'll sort out that meeting with
01:04:26as soon as possible and we'll get onto that flooding it dear dear
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