- 20 hours ago
Tessa Thompson is known for utilizing her voice and platform to push boundaries of portrayal of black identity and love onscreen.
Category
🛠️
LifestyleTranscript
00:00Hey everyone, I'm Jacqueline Whitton and I'm so excited to be here with Tessa Thompson,
00:10Eugene Ash, and Nnamie Asamoah, and three brilliant human beings. And we're here talking
00:21about an extraordinary movie that Eugene wrote and directed. And I can't wait for everyone to see
00:33this movie, Sylvie's love. So I wanted to start by just asking you each, we're here at the Afro
00:43Punk Festival and we're talking about Black Joy. That's one of the themes of this year's festival.
00:48And when you think of Black Joy, what does it mean for you? So let's start with that question.
00:57And Tessa, you want to begin?
01:01Yeah. Well, first of all, the first word that comes to mind, particularly this year, is just how
01:08essential joy is for all people, but particularly for Black people. But a form of resistance is
01:18in finding joy in each other and community. As it relates to this film, I think a lot about
01:27music. Something that I felt was paramount in creating this film was wanting to leave people
01:34with a feeling, a feeling of joyfulness, of buoyancy. And I guess I think so much about the utility of
01:45joy. And yeah, I think in terms of all the things that we've discovered this year inside of this global
01:52pandemic that is essential, I think joy is certainly one of them. And I think of how powerful it is to
01:58see images, particularly of Black joy in this time when we're talking about the value and dignity of Black
02:05life, that a part of being able to project our joy, both to each other and to the world at large,
02:15is a big part of the conversation around the value and dignity of our lives.
02:21Beautiful. So true. How about you, Eugene?
02:26Yeah, I mean, I look at it as joy represents our freedom to be our authentic selves. There's joy in
02:42just being able to show our most authentic selves in a way that's not guarded and a way that's vulnerable
02:50and, you know, to show that, to show our love and the way that we love. And so for me, it's really
02:59about authenticity. And that's what we, you know, tried to get across in the film.
03:04Mm-hmm.
03:08Yeah, I'll tell you the first thing that popped into my mind was a celebration of culture. And it's
03:17because I'm watching the show. It's on Epix, if you get a chance to see it. It's called Enslaved.
03:24And Sam Jackson is going back to, you know, all these different places in Africa, you know,
03:30whether it's Ghana or wherever it might be, talking about the slave trade and how it all began.
03:36And, you know, there's a beautiful thing that he does. And when he's going to these places,
03:40they start to sing and everyone comes around as a family and they eat the food. And it's just
03:47to me, it's just really, it's awesome to see Black people in that light, celebrating culture
03:58and, you know, just enjoying each other. So that was the first thing that popped in my mind when you
04:02said, tell me about Black joy.
04:06It was so great because it brings us right into Sylvie's Love, which is a movie that I can't wait for
04:12the audience to see this movie. I watched it with my daughter, who was 18, and I can't wait to rewatch
04:19it with my son, who's 12, and my partner, who's a grown woman. But one thing that spoke so
04:25amazingly to me was the joy you brought to this film. And there's struggle, but the struggle is
04:35as nuanced as the joy. And the characters are so multi-dimensional. And I just wanted to ask you,
04:46Eugene, because writer to writer, not only did you bring such a life to just this everyday
04:56family, but you also brought such a depth to every character who walks across that screen.
05:03And for all of you, I guess the question is, when you were introduced to your characters, how did you
05:11come to them? What made you choose to embody them? What was it about this script that had you see
05:20yourself in it and had you seen yourself playing these roles? And for you, Eugene, how did you tell
05:26this story? How did you get to this story? Does that make sense, y'all?
05:29I think from the beginning, you know, it's really, the goal was to have the other characters,
05:46not Robert and Sylvie, also be nuanced, for instance, as, you know, as we know, without giving too much of
05:52the movie away, the Lacey character, you know, just never wanting him to just be kind of the evil
06:01guy with the twisted mustache, tying people to the train tracks. We wanted him to have some dignity and
06:09and to be a nuanced character that people thought of as, you know, like, this could be a possibility
06:17for Sylvie in a different world and in a different time. And it certainly was in the beginning of the
06:24arc of her character. So, you know, the villain, not that he's a villain, but the villain never thinks
06:31of him or herself as being, you know, evil. So it's just, I wanted all of those characters
06:40to have that type of nuance to them. So that's, I'm kind of speaking broadly about the rest of the
06:47characters and the two of you can speak individually about your own.
06:53Well, first, Jacqueline, I appreciate hearing that you watched it with your daughter and that you'll
06:59watch it with your son now and your partner, because I think in a conversation about Black love,
07:05obviously there are these two romantic leads, but I really loved the other depictions of love that
07:13you get to see and celebrate inside of this film. You get to see these two women who are close friends
07:20and cousins and love up on each other. And I think particularly now, especially I think about how
07:26important it is to love up on each other as Black women. And so I think there's all these other depictions
07:34of love that are so paramount in the film that I think people can really relate to as audience
07:39members and watch. And something that really made me want to work on the film when I was approached
07:46about it from Nnamdi and then in my conversations with Eugene, I remember Eugene talking about that
07:53very iconic Gordon Parks image, which was recently used in an episode of Lovecraft Country and in the
08:01pilot of it as a beautiful sort of Easter egg. And Eugene had talked about some of these iconic
08:08photographs that we see from the time of segregation. And if you were to zoom in on that photograph,
08:14if you sort of, not that you were taking out the historical context of segregation necessarily,
08:20but that you zoomed in on the life of this mother and this daughter, and that became
08:26the most central thing in the frame. And I thought that that was so interesting. And just selfishly,
08:32I've always, as an actor, wanted to do something, a classic love story. I remember the first time I saw
08:38The Notebook, or when I saw A Bronx Tale, or the first time I saw The Way We Were, you know,
08:47these sort of like sweeping romantic films. But so seldom did I ever see black people inside of those
08:54frames. And, you know, as much as I understood the context of my grandparents, my grandmother,
09:01you know, an immigrant to this country, my grandfather, a black man from Bully, Oklahoma,
09:07I understood everything that they struggled with. But as a child, I would see images of them. And this
09:11thing that struck me so much was how glamorous my grandmother looked, and how dapper my grandfather
09:17looked, right? These were people that struggled that didn't come from means that were picking
09:22themselves up, as America told them by their bootstraps, but were also like, just, you know,
09:27listening to music and loving and laughing. And so the idea of getting to make a film that centered that,
09:35when there's so much of that in Hollywood iconography, but it never allows us to be paramount inside of the
09:43frame. And that's what really interested me about playing this character, Sylvie. And I really just
09:50loved also, as a love story to black people, she was, she's such an ambitious young woman. And I think
09:58so often when we when, you know, we see depictions of women, sometimes we don't get to frame what what
10:06ambition looks like, and particularly what it looks like for a young black woman. And so that's
10:12something that I and you don't just get to see it in Sylvie, you get to see it in other female
10:16characters. Sylvie sees a reflection of what she can be when she sees another black woman who's doing the
10:23very thing that she hopes to do. And so I think the film really speaks about how it how
10:28important representation in that way is we have to see it to know that we can be it. And I love that about
10:34this, this film and this character. So well done. I love that scene. So, and the point about seeing
10:44reflections of ourselves in the world is so important. Namdi, I wanted to know how we got you to the to your
10:52character who's this phenomenal musician and good, good guy without nod back to Eugene and to the acting
11:00being some magical Negro quote unquote, right? There is a there's a nuance there that keeps you human.
11:10Yeah, that's I mean, that it starts with Eugene and the script and his ability to write characters in a
11:17very specific yet nuanced way. And my conversations with him really help to bring that out. But you know,
11:23just to echo something that Tessa was talking about with the notebook, I have a friend, a white friend that
11:29has seen the notebook probably, you know, 5000 times, and, and talks about it all the time. It's crazy. And I've
11:37seen it, I've definitely seen it, you know, a handful of times. And I actually, I really like it. But I could never
11:43point to that film that had people that looked like us in it from that same time period that that really
11:52sort of swept you off your feet in that young love type of way. So just to echo what she said, it was
11:58really, you know, I think it was moving and and exciting to see that in the script. I remember reading
12:07it on a plane ride, and just immediately saying, how do I get in touch with the person that that made
12:14this story, you know, because it needs to be made into a film. And then I think just for the character,
12:21um, well, I, you know, I, I started, it started with the jazz, to be honest. And it's funny, because
12:28before this film, and I'm, I'm a little embarrassed to say it, I was more of a smooth jazz guy.
12:35Right. But I wasn't a smooth jazz guy. I'm just saying like, you can't, you can't backtrack now.
12:53It was smooth jazz. Um, and so I would get, you know, the people in my life would make fun of me
13:00for that. Because it's like I was listening to elevator music, you know, Kenny, Kenny G all the
13:05time. And so I, I finally had a reason to like, really dive into jazz. And, and so it started with
13:14that. And, you know, I started watching documentaries all the time, and just finding out, uh, you know, how
13:22Coltrane stood and how he sat and how Lee Morgan carried himself, you know, like how he spoke, or
13:30like, how, um, what were Sonny Rollins, what were the rhythms, you know, that, that he would bring out.
13:38And, and I think, and, and the, the costume and the outfit, all of that really just helped to sort of
13:44Taylor who the character was, and there's a certain vulnerability in their music from that time,
13:51you know, that really, really spoke to me. And it felt like that's an important way to,
13:57to bring out vulnerability in the character. Um, so, yes, I was able to, to do that with the
14:03character, I think in a, in, in, in the way that Eugene wrote it in such a nuanced way, like,
14:09is the black man that doesn't have to be, you know, shooting, shooting the club up,
14:15or it doesn't have to be fighting all the time. Like, he really has feelings. Um, so, yeah,
14:21it was the jazz. Or a drug addict. Or a drug addict. Yeah, it doesn't have to be shooting up,
14:25right? Because that's the other thing. So often with jazz musicians, we see the depiction of the
14:30heroin addict, and that's not there. That's right. So, um, so how can the cinematic experience of
14:38watching Sylvie's love be healing and restorative for black viewers? I, I, I know how it's healing
14:45and restorative for me, and I wish we were having this conversation after the people watch, hearing
14:51us speak, have seen the film, because there's so much I can't say. But I want to ask that question
14:57about, um, you know, the healing and restorative part of a film like this. Yeah, I mean, I think,
15:07again, broadly, you know, I always start from a place of what I'd like to see that doesn't exist.
15:14And, um, and this, you know, not to parrot what Nnamdi said, you know, it just,
15:20I, I didn't see this, I didn't see us represented in films like this. And I love movies like Breakfast
15:28at Tiffany's, and, you know, The Way We Were. And, and then there were films in the past,
15:34like Mahogany and Lady Sings the Blues where, but it felt like it was a long time ago. And, um,
15:41so I, I think the idea of it is just, you know, we started from a place of creating something that,
15:48that we wanted to see exist in the world and that we wanted to give birth to.
15:52Mm-hmm. It's funny because I can't make it through Breakfast at Tiffany's.
15:59I'm sorry.
16:01Yeah. So we come at it, I mean, I came at it like a fan, you know, it's just, I'm a fan of movies and
16:07I wanted to see a film like this. So that was, that's kind of, and so I think the hope was that
16:14there were other Black folks out there who wanted to see it as well.
16:17Yeah. Tessa?
16:22Oh, I, I was just going to say it, it is to the, it's restorative in the, in the way that smooth jazz
16:28is, you know, it's just like calming. No, I think one thing that is, one thing that is refreshing
16:37is that whatever, broadly speaking, strife or pain that the characters are experiencing by and large
16:46is interpersonal as opposed to societal. Um, and I think in a time when we are sort of like anesthetized
16:55to the idea of Black trauma and pain, um, you know, in, in film, in, in media, I think this, a film like
17:04this is a solve, um, which is not to say that it doesn't hit some more complicated Coltrane-esque notes,
17:13but I think it, it, it, it's, it, it, there is, um, a smoothness, there is a delight in, in watching.
17:21Sorry, Nandi, I'm still, I know, I know, I know, I'm hoping no one else is catching it, but I, I keep,
17:27all right, I got you, I got you. No, but it's brave, it's brave of you to admit, it's brave of you to
17:32all right. Um, but yeah, I mean, I mean, won't it be great? I was, uh, talking about this earlier
17:43for us to get to the end of the year and, you know, with all that we've been through this year,
17:48be able to sit down and watch a film like this and be around with the family, um, on Christmas
17:55and just fall in love with, you know, two Black people falling in love. I think it's, uh, the timing,
18:00we couldn't have planned this timing, but it's, it's, it's really special.
18:05It really is, and it's really so deeply necessary. I think one thing that struck me is that,
18:12yes, the trauma is not there. We know things are happening off the page, you know, we know that,
18:18um, Mona's going off and working, um, is part of the civil rights movement. We know things are,
18:25we know, we know the history and to be able to go back to that past and see the beautiful
18:31fashion, see the phenomenal acting, hear the amazing writing and, and be able to just kind
18:36of set that side apart because we are so multi-dimensional. Like we, yes, we have had
18:41that trauma, but we've also, we've also survived it because we wouldn't be here if we weren't.
18:46And this movie is, is, um, a love song to our survival. And I think people will, um,
18:54really respond to that and we'll exhale because we need to exhale. Um,
19:00I just want to say, I just want to say real quick, he gave the thing that just popped into my mind was
19:06he gave us permission to love. And we're talking about in his writing, you know, that's, it's weird
19:13to say it like he's not right here, but you can get the love in his writing. And I, I say that
19:20because I was thinking about another film that I did called Crown Heights, where a guy is wrongfully
19:25incarcerated and he's, um, it sends to life in prison. And while he's in prison, he missed all that's
19:34going on. He meets a woman, you know, she puts her life and her career on the side to help get him out
19:41of prison. They fall in love, they get married, they have kids, their kids have kids. You know what
19:49I mean? Like all of this happens in the midst of all of the, the sort of turmoil that he's going
19:57through. And it, you know, when we're allowed to give ourselves permission to love and to celebrate
20:03ourselves, I mean, it brings out our humanity. And I think that's, it's just a beautiful thing that
20:08he did in the script. So I just wanted to bring that really good. And if I could just, if I could
20:14add, you know, one more thing as well, just, you know, when we don't show depictions of ourselves in
20:21the past, um, you know, through the lens of our humanity, it's sort of a way of, you know, erasing
20:27the fact that, that even in the middle of all of these, uh, really kind of rough times, we still thrived,
20:34and we still found time to, you know, I've said it and I'll say it again, even Malcolm X and Martin
20:40Luther King still had a bunch of babies and fell in love. Um, you know, and it's just really important
20:47for us to know, we don't want to be in 2050 and look back on 20, on, on, on this period of time and
20:56only see, you know, the, the hard times that we went through, you know, we, or what are we going
21:03to erase, you know, uh, Barack Obama and, and Oprah and Jay-Z and, you know, it's like, there's,
21:10there's all this other stuff happening. And so if we only see, uh, the struggle, it's just,
21:16it's a way of erasing our accomplishments and how resilient we are as a people.
21:20Mm-hmm. That's a really good point. Um, so there's an idea that black joy is synonymous with
21:29resistance. How do those two show up in the portrayal of your characters and in the film?
21:37Black joy is synonymous with resistance.
21:41Resistance.
21:42Hmm. Um, give me an example of that idea. Um, well, you know, I think for your character,
21:56you, um, yeah, let me think. Um, well, one thing, well, one thing is, um,
22:06your character leaves the country and that was, that was a resistance movement during that time for a
22:12lot of people. Right. Um, your character is a wife and a mother who takes on a full-time job and that's,
22:22uh, you know, in an era where you were economically well off enough to stay home and not have to work.
22:30And also it wasn't what was shined upon. Yeah. I mean, I think it's, I think it's just to,
22:39to think about the question. I think it's, you know, how is this, you know, how does this speak
22:43to the time? This is it. I think making this film for us was an act of resistance, you know,
22:51making a film, like I just said, you know, about black folks, um, falling in love and, and not just
23:00showing us through our adversity is an act of resistance. It definitely was tough enough to get
23:05made. So, you know, there were a lot of people trying to make this.
23:13I think even, I think even the idea of, of, of, of, of centering joy first and foremost
23:20feels like an act of resistance. I mean, I think about that in terms of my own career sometimes.
23:25And sometimes the choices that I make are politicized, but for example, one of the great joys of getting
23:31to enter the space of doing like Marvel films is just, I want to have a spaceship. Like why,
23:36why can't I have a spaceship? You know, why can't I exist not just in the past as we get to brilliantly
23:43in this film, but I want to exist in the future. Like I want to be able to be on an alien planet,
23:49you know? Um, and so centering that, getting to do something that frankly is just fun or like
23:56escapist, but is black. Like to me that to sit, just to center joy, to say inside of this conversation
24:04around representation or diversity, we should also be allowed to have diversity of expression and idea.
24:09It's not enough that we get to appear on screen. What kind of frames do we get to appear in? So
24:15even it, it might feel thin, but even the idea that I get to have a conversation with Eugene and we go,
24:21how do we create a brain that is just the most glamorous frame you ever did see to center like
24:29a moment of beauty, um, to try to, to, to create a moment that feels gasp worthy. That feels like
24:37when you see Audrey Hepburn in breakfast and Tiffany's, when you see those sort of like iconic frames,
24:43because so often, particularly as black folks, I think we talk about the kind of roles that we can
24:48play. We get to play someone in the past. We get to play a historical figure, right? Because we
24:55understand their import. But I'm like, what about also getting to enter the lexicon, the filmic lexicon,
25:02like to enter Hollywood iconography with a fictional character that, that can take up space,
25:09you know? Um, and, and that to me is, is, is an act of resistance because it's centering something
25:15that's just joyful, that we should be allowed to, to, to have fun. We should be allowed to have
25:20something that is also escapist or beautiful. Um, because frankly, you know, we, we just haven't,
25:28we haven't had that, that, uh, ability. Um, yeah.
25:33Yeah. And it's, yeah, even at a point. Go ahead, Namte.
25:38Oh, I was just going to go back to what you said about the, uh, getting the film made. I mean,
25:44it certainly was an act of resistance because we also saw people, um, met with people that told us,
25:51uh, you know, what would this look like if the characters look different?
25:56And, you know, we didn't go down that route. You know, we decided to stick to our guns and make the
26:01film we wanted to see. And I think a lot of times it's about trusting that there's an audience to
26:08see it, you know, and we, we fail to have that trust and you see something. Um, I, you know,
26:16someone told me a long time ago, control the images and you'll control the mind and images that we see
26:25a lot are not ourselves in these roles and in these types of films. So the thought doesn't
26:32even cross our minds. So when a script comes, comes out and there's an all black cast, the first thought
26:37is, oh, this will never get made. Oh, there's no audience for this, you know? And, and we feel it
26:43too, as black people, I'm not going to say like, this is just for, this is just white people are saying
26:49it's not going to get made. Um, I mean, we went through a journey of going through a lot of people
26:55to get this film made. And, and there were a lot of responses of this will absolutely never get made.
27:01It won't make any money. Nobody wanted to see it, you know, this, the cast, the whatever. And so it's
27:08definitely an act of resistance to say, it doesn't matter. You think we know what we want to see and
27:14we're going to get it done. And that's what we were able to do, you know? Yeah. And that's why
27:19we need to go out in black pants of this because to show people that, I mean, you know, that's a verb
27:24for make it, make it the successful film that it needs to be. Um, because it is quite, quite beautiful
27:32and, and quite, quite brilliant and very, very necessary. So I'm so grateful to y'all. Um, how many
27:39rooms did you have to go in before you finally got the green light? Well, I, I, I mean, Eugene
27:49went in a ton of rooms before he even came to me, right? Eugene. I mean, from, from me on, it was a,
27:56like a ton. Without a doubt. Uh, I mean, you worked on it. I've lost count. You know,
28:08the bottom line is it took someone, you know, Nnamdi was very intrepid and, and saying, you know, and,
28:15and saying, I want to really become your partner and making this film. And then Tessa as well,
28:22when she came on and we just sort of, you know, we rallied, cobbled it together and, and, and made it
28:30happen. Um, you know, of course the film got, got picked up, um, got bought by someone else,
28:37but we, you know, it's, it's independent in every sense of the word. You know, we, we put it together.
28:43We made it. Um, it's homegrown. Um, you know, it's Mersh.
28:50Yeah.
28:57Yeah.
28:59Um, so, so here's a question that I know you get asked all the time and I'm going to ask you again,
29:05um, for our audience, what do you say to the, um, young filmmaker out there who's wanting to make this
29:12film that they have never seen and have no sense that anyone will ever care to see it?
29:22I'm asking all of you.
29:22I mean, you just have to kind of,
29:26you can't give up is the, is the most important thing, you know, because, you know, of course,
29:31if you give up, then that's, that's it. Yeah. It's not, it's not, it's definitely not
29:37going to happen if you give up. So if you continue to do it, you know, if you continue to try and you,
29:45and you wake up every day and you get on the grind, you know, that's what any art,
29:49anything that you really want to do, and you have to do it for the love of the thing itself.
29:54Can't think about any of the other, other things. It's like, I need to see this get made. I need this
30:00music to be made. I need this art to be painted. I need this fashion to be designed. I need, you know,
30:07to do this hair this way, you know, all of us who, who make art, um, across the board,
30:13if you start from a place of doing it for the love of it, then people it's infectious. People see that,
30:20you know, and you put your soul into it and people ultimately, somebody will find it and be like,
30:26that's really, really, really dope. And we need to get this made. And that's what happened with Nnamdi
30:31and Tessa. And that's why I'm here today. So, gracias.
30:40And same question for y'all about acting. What do you say to the young people and, you know,
30:45I guess the older people out there who are grinding away and, and getting beaten down because
30:51sometimes the roles just aren't there and sometimes, um, the no's are there too much.
30:58Well, I'm, I'm really curious what Nnamdi's answer to this would be because he is, um, one of those
31:04fascinating sorts that had a whole other very separate career pre, um, uh, what, what he's doing
31:13now as a producer and actor. And, um, I'm curious what you'd, what you'd say to folks.
31:17I, I always say, if you ain't creating, you're waiting.
31:25And you know, the, that wait, that wait could take forever. So I, so I try to tell people as
31:32much as possible. If, if it's not happening for you, try to find a way to tell your own story.
31:39I mean, for me, I got in, you know, people only want to see you to, to Tessa's point,
31:44I'll go down this road. People only want to see you do one thing in life, you know,
31:48like they get used to that and they feel like you can't do anything else. And that's the light
31:52that you're in. And when you're, uh, especially a professional athlete, you're not going to,
31:59you're not going to do that for your entire life. You know, once you get out, you still have your
32:04whole life ahead of you, but people only want to see you there. And, you know, I, I got out and I
32:10fell in love with acting and I realized that, you know, I, I didn't go to the prestigious schools and I
32:17didn't have the experience that a lot of people had. So the only way that I could get people to
32:24see that I could do it was to make it myself. And so find people that are telling the stories,
32:31find a way to get it done, started with short films and then just grew from there, um, in making films
32:38and then putting myself in the films so that people could see that. Um, and so I, yeah, I, you just have to
32:44stay, I, you just have to stay positive because I think Stevie Wonder said, um, when you're moving in
32:56the positive, your direction is the brightest star. And I, it's just something that you,
33:04it, it, it works out time and time again when your mindset is positive. It's when you start to go down
33:10that negative route of this is never going to happen. You start telling yourself that that's
33:14what comes out. I mean, you can talk about the universe and God and all of that, but it is,
33:19it really is what you're telling yourself and, and if you're managing to stay positive through it all.
33:26And I do think it comes back.
33:34I mean, well, I think, I think so much again, necessity is the mother of invention. I think of all
33:39the incredible pieces of work that have been made out of the, just by hook or by crook, by someone
33:46saying like, no one is saying yes to me. So I will just say yes to myself. I mean, I think about like
33:51pieces of work that have been so incredibly, um, um, inspiring and most recently watching Rodda
33:59Mitchell and her film, the 40 year old version, which was at the same time we were, I couldn't get
34:05a ticket. I finally got to see it on Netflix and what, what she does in that film is astounding. And
34:11it clearly comes from a very personal place, but you know, there, there is, there wasn't, there was
34:17no person like her, like that singular voice that existed in the culture. And now that she's made that
34:24she makes room for, for, for other, other folks. And so I think as hard as it can be sometimes,
34:31how long it can feel like it can take. I mean, I feel like I was, I've been like a rising star for
34:37a decade or something, but, um, but I think you re you have to remember that you're like, it's not,
34:43it's not just you, right. You like take other people with you hopefully. And I think of all the
34:49folks that, um, if they didn't exist, like I wouldn't exist. And so it makes it feel like not such a,
34:57a solitary, um, small, uh, uh, ambition. Suddenly it feels bigger than, than yourself. And I think
35:05you sort of need that. At least for me, I would not have had the, I would not have had the fortitude
35:10to continue. Um, if it didn't feel bigger than just like what my own personal, like aspirations
35:17or, or, or dreams are. I think if your dreams don't include other people, then they're arguably
35:22maybe too small. So I think, and, and also just the importance of finding community, like I, you
35:28know, before I was like, uh, uh, I had 18 jobs. I was like dancing at bar mitzvahs and I was working
35:34at a Chinese food restaurant, you know, and I like, couldn't get it. I was auditioning for like every
35:39sassy black friend in Hollywood and not, you know, and, but I would supplement that. I would supplement
35:47that sad, lonely, like out of work, looking for change for parking meter feeling that I had with
35:53like doing theater and finding community. And Los Angeles is not necessarily lauded for its theater,
35:58but there's a rich community of artists that are making work here. And, and that was hugely, um,
36:04important for me personally, because I learned so much like Nnamdi, I didn't go to school either,
36:09but I had the great pleasure of working with people that did. Um, and I, so I learned so much. I,
36:14I got to be seen, I got to hone my, my craft and, and I can't like theater was invaluable for me.
36:20So I think if it hadn't have been theater, just finding community, um, that, that I think is really,
36:26really, really important when you want to make something and it can be so lonely otherwise, I think.
36:34Is there any video out there of the dancing at the bar mitzvahs? That's the big question.
36:39Yeah. There was a lot of smooth jazz actually during cocktail hour. That's what they would play.
36:49You would have fit right in. Oh man, that, that's wild. I know it, it is, um, the, I, I think you
36:59can't speak highly enough to community, um, and the need for it as, as artists. Um, you know,
37:07my writer friends keep me sane, um, as does my family. We have, you know, nevermind. Anyway,
37:13um, who are the black women in your life that shaped your perception of a black woman?
37:21You know, who are the black women in your life? Actually, you know what? Um, well, let's answer
37:26this. And I want to go back to that, um, to community and the fact that we get to where we are
37:32by making our own roads and by standing on the shoulders of people who came before us.
37:37Um, so in that, um, frame, who are some of the shoulders you're standing on?
37:44Especially black women.
37:45So, um, okay. Well, I wanted to just kind of, well, first I'll, I'll just, um, I'll shout out
37:55my mom, just because, you know, I was, um, I was raised by a strong black woman and watched,
38:02um, you know, my, my parents, um, were together for a while and my dad was always on the scene,
38:08but they did split up. Um, and, you know, part of Sylvie's arc of, of just being this kind of
38:16trophy wife or whatever in the beginning, and then kind of coming into her own agency
38:22was something I, I witnessed kind of, you know, and, and my, and my parents relationship.
38:28Uh, you know, my mother was a debut time in Harlem and, and all of the above,
38:33and then wound up working in the telephone company where she was an executive.
38:37And, you know, I, I, she went on to, to make, you know, as much or if not more money than my dad.
38:43Uh, so, you know, when they, so, so that was really kind of influential in,
38:49in my life because I lived with my mom and living with her, you know, I got to know the intimate,
38:56intimate details about them men.
39:00And so it was just really, it was a nice kind of way to just sit around with her and her,
39:05her and her friends who were also all working. And I just grew up around a lot of strong black
39:10women who all had jobs and all work and all, uh, handled their business. And so that's the only way
39:16that I, it's the type of woman I'm married to is the type of people, you know, women who are friends
39:23of mine, the type of women I cast in my movies. It's the type of women I write about. Uh, it's just,
39:30it's the only way that I can, that I can, that's how I see women is just the way that I was raised.
39:38Um, but yeah, uh, certainly there are just in the past and, you know, setting example for us, um,
39:48you know, even as, even as recently as someone like Ava DuVernay, who just kind of, you know,
39:55I watched her whole trajectory. I mean, we were in a, we were in doing film festivals together when,
40:02you know, back in the day when she had middle of nowhere out and I just watched her whole rise.
40:07And it was very inspiring to me to watch her and to watch her succeed the way that she did. And it
40:12made it feel possible for me because we, you know, we had a film in the same festival that she,
40:19you know, was, she was right there with me. We were at the same level at one point. And so to watch
40:25her ascension was just like, wow, this is really great. You gotta really stick to, you know, stick to
40:30your guns. And so she definitely was very influential for me in modern times.
40:40Awesome. How about you, Tessa?
40:43Um, well, my grandmother, who I mentioned, um, my mom and my stepmom, I have lots of sisters. So
40:54these are like my, you know, my, my community. Um, and then I think like, particularly now,
41:01I think when we talk now about community, I think a lot about like group centered leadership. And I think
41:07this year has been such a big year and for so many folks have felt really radicalized. And so I look
41:13to like, you know, uh, community activists like Marsha P Johnson and, you know, like
41:20the, that legacy. Um, and, um, oh my goodness, I don't know. I mean, my Angelou. Huh?
41:31I said that, um, you know, I mean, the WNBA, the women in the WNBA are doing a lot of that.
41:38Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. No. And, um, someone, a woman that I thought about a lot when we were
41:48making Sylvie's love because she was like a, uh, a point of reference, um, was like Diane Carroll.
41:55I imagine like, um, I imagine like Diane Carroll, like, you know, I remember the first time I saw her
42:01in, in Paris blues. And like, of course she's like, so stunning and remarkable. And I felt like
42:09Sylvie's love in a weird way was like, what if, um, Diane Carroll and Sidney Poitier, like,
42:15they got to make a sequel to the movie where they didn't just have to talk about the race problem
42:19or whether or not they should stay in Europe or go back to America? Like, what if they just got to,
42:25you know, do another film that was just them on a fun vacation? Like, what would that film have
42:31looked like? Because I just wanted to stay with those characters and go with them to a Chinese
42:36restaurant. But certainly Diane Carroll, I think like quite literally there's so many women inside
42:41of Hollywood that if, if the, if they had, if the culture had caught up, if they were able to
42:48really show the, the breadth of their talent, imagine all the things that we could have had,
42:53which is not to dismiss all the righteous contributions they made, but like Hollywood
42:58wasn't ready to give them more space, you know? And then I think about women that have been like so
43:02paramount to me, like Eartha Kitt, you know, um, these sort of performers that were able to transform
43:08identity, um, and just that felt so free, you know, like, um, so she's always been someone that's
43:15really inspired me, um, a lot. Thank you. Yeah. So, so, uh, in Paris Blues, the book,
43:27the main characters are the black couple, you know, it's the black couple. And then when they decided to
43:32make the film, they were like, there's no way we're leading with the black couple. We're going to lead with
43:38this white story and have the black couple be the couple in the background. So if Hollywood
43:44was, it did believe that there was an audience for it and, you know, Tessa, you would have gotten
43:50that, but you know, we're at that place where we were able to do it for them, which is also like the,
43:58it's like the, it's not the gift and the curse, but there's like two sides of it. You know, it was,
44:03it was never, these things weren't done back then, but now we get the opportunity to be the ones that
44:09are making the history. So there is, there's also that beauty in it too. If you, if you want to look
44:14at it that way, it's not that it's revisionist history. It's that because these things were
44:23happening, what we're, what we're doing is we're, we're, we're making the move. We're making a movie
44:29that never got made that should have, that we would have been. You know, it's so interesting
44:35because, um, I think of, you know, I have a 12 year old and 18 year old and neither one of them got
44:41reconstruction in school, any, you know, during any period, they got Jim Crow, they got the civil
44:46rights movement, no reconstruction. So there's that history, unless we teach him as a race. And then,
44:51you know, my daughter had her cotillion coming of age ceremony. And what does that look like
44:56when you're biracial with two moms and all of that? But it's like, this is what it looks like. You
45:00create it, you make your road and you, you walk down it. And so one part of the movie that I'm going to
45:05give away that I really, really loved is there's a beautiful scene where your mom is teaching white
45:12gloves and manners is what we had back in the day, but teaching, um, young women how to be proper women
45:18in the world. And I just thought I would, what I thought, is someone going to think that this
45:23doesn't exist? Because I knew it. And so many people had those classes where you had to go and
45:28learn how to wear your gloves, how to sit, what fork to use, what spoon to use. And I just love that
45:34that is in there. So thank you. Um, and I can't talk enough.
45:39That's a nod to Ophelia.
45:42That's a nod to Ophelia DeVore.
45:46Oh, that's funny.
45:48Ophelia DeVore was this a black woman that had this, you know, she had a,
45:52a finishing school in Harlem that Diane Carroll went to.
45:57So she was legendary.
46:02That finishing school.
46:03Yeah.
46:04Oh, sorry.
46:06Can I just say quickly that I did not know, um, what a cotillion was.
46:15That's a lot of people don't.
46:17I mean, I didn't, it was actually your expression.
46:22It was an honest moment. Um, but anyway,
46:24I'm on a 21st century mom journey to bring them back in a whole new way.
46:33Um, so I, we're in an election year and before we, um, go away, I want, um, can we talk a little
46:44bit about how important, um, how do we continue to push the message of the importance of voting?
46:51Um, we see all of this stuff happening around voter suppression with, um, voter ID laws and
46:57transgender communities and so many people believing that their vote doesn't matter.
47:01It doesn't matter. So I wondered if each of you could talk a little bit about the importance of voting.
47:08Um, you mind if I just, I can kick it off.
47:11I, because I was actually just thinking about this and having a conversation, um,
47:18about how important it is to kind of make the simple adjustment to ask yourself, not how important
47:25it is to vote, but how important it is to be a voter and the history get us here and just how important
47:33the right is and how important it is for us to be able to vote and honoring everything
47:41that happened before us to get us here. So that I think when you just kind of make that shift in
47:47your perspective, it's the weight of, of the responsibility, I think, starts to take over
47:56and you understand that it's something that, you know, that you really, really must do.
48:04Yeah, I agree with that.
48:07Tessa, you are going last. There's no way I'm going to follow your answer.
48:14I'm going to get mine out of the way in two seconds.
48:19That's my most.
48:20That's right.
48:22Um, I'll just echo what, what Eugene said. And I think for me, I have so many friends. I mean,
48:29the beauty of playing football was we, I got to be around teammates that had all sorts of beliefs.
48:39So there were Democrats, Republicans, I mean, what are you name it. And you had to be, you know,
48:47on one accord and you had to listen to each other and you had, you know, you had, you were working
48:53together for a common goal. Um, so I say that because the thing that I've been saying to people,
48:59because I do have some friends that feel like their vote isn't going to matter, their vote doesn't
49:04count. I always tell them it's not just the presidential, um, election, not just those
49:10ballots. It's, it's all across the board, up and down. Like, I think more happens when you look
49:16throughout the ballot and you look at some of the other policies that aren't just who's going to be
49:21your president, you can make a lot more change. And so I try to, I try to get them focused on one
49:27thing that they want changed in their community or, and how do they find that on the ballot? And
49:34how do they start to fight for that and understand that, that they can affect that change?
49:41Yeah.
49:43Bessa, you want to take us out?
49:45Is that, no, I don't want it. I don't want it.
49:48I think I echo everything that you both have, have said, you know, um, I, I just,
49:58I voted the other day with my little brother who's 22 and we, we marched to the polls. We went with our
50:05envelopes and we, and we went to a rally and we, and we put them in there. And I, it, for me, it felt
50:11very satisfying because over the last couple months with my friends and my family, we've taken to the
50:17streets and we're shouting Brianna Taylor's name and we're shouting George Floyd's name and so many
50:22folks, their names. And, um, that's one way. Right. And then another way also is to cast a ballot
50:30because as Nandi said, there's so many other things that we're voting on. I mean, hundreds of sheriff
50:34elections happened this, this year. Right. So I think about the incredible power of that. And recently,
50:41I was reengaging with Malcolm X's words when he's talking about the, the bullet or the ballot box.
50:47And one thing that he talked about in that speech is the necessity to really have, um, real political
50:53maturity. And when I hear people talk about, oh, my vote doesn't matter. It's an impetulant sort of,
50:59um, perspective. I think like, um, voting is just one, one way, right? It's, it's like the necessary
51:07maintenance that you do. And then you do all the other things to hold your elected officials
51:11accountable, but it's like the, it's the, it's the, you know, just the baseline essential thing.
51:17And then when we talk about voter suppression, ID laws, I mean, we know as black people, right,
51:22that, that we have, we have a long history of people trying to take away our vote. And something
51:27that that reminds us of is how powerful our vote is. If our vote was not as powerful as it is,
51:32people wouldn't be trying to take it away throughout history. And the same is true of
51:36other communities like the transgender community. And so I think so much about
51:41our responsibility as we are talking about protecting our vote. Now we also have to make
51:47sure that we're protecting the vote of our trans brothers and sisters, um, and folks that are
51:51non-gender conforming. Right. Um, and so I, I feel a tremendous amount of responsibility to make sure
51:57inside of, um, my own political maturity that I understand the way the electoral process works,
52:03federal, state, local, like I have learned so much this year, like even yesterday, I'm like,
52:08oh, you know, we dropped our ballots off. Now we have to trace the, the, the darn thing. And if it
52:14isn't counted by November 3rd, we have to cancel that thing. And then we gotta, we gotta go and vote in
52:20person then, you know, and these things I'm, I'm only learning only this year, have I really understood
52:25the census and what it does, how it allocates money to communities. So it, for me, it's even this year
52:31and I'm someone that I consider myself very politically active and civically engaged and
52:35minded, and I still have areas of growth. Um, and so I, I, I think, um, we all just, um, it's a,
52:43it's a nice thing to, to grow up and, and I, and I think, and I think the time really requires,
52:50um, it, um, right now, you know, we talk about resilience and we talk about joy. For me personally,
52:59it felt very joyful to, um, march up to that ballot box with, with my little 22 year old brother, that,
53:05that felt like an expression of joy. Yeah, it is so true. It's, it's exciting because my daughter's 18
53:13and this is the first time she'll be voting. And I'm so grateful to you for saying,
53:19for talking about the importance of following up on that vote. Um, once you cast it. So I,
53:24and I'm grateful to y'all for these phenomenal, um, performances in this movie. This is some of the
53:32best acting I've seen in a long, long time. I was completely blown away. And, um, Eugene,
53:39I can't talk enough about the writing and directing. Um, you just killed it. So I'm so happy to be a part of
53:46this. I'm so glad y'all took the time. And I'm so grateful to Afropunk. If y'all haven't been to
53:51an Afropunk festival, it's, it's some, it's some next stuff. So I live in Brooklyn when I'm not up
53:55here in Brooklyn and, and talk about many, many ways of seeing people. It's a, it's a beautiful space
54:02to be in. So I'm glad to be in it with y'all virtually and hopefully one day we'll all be
54:07together in it in real life. And, um, thank you. And I guess we're going to show the trailer now,
54:15but stay safe and stay kind and brilliant y'all. I so appreciate you. Thank you so much. Thank you
54:23very much. Tell me about this new boy at the store. Hey, what's your favorite song on this?
54:29You don't know what love is. I am not answering that. Is he cute? I didn't really notice that much.
54:36My band's playing a night at nine if you want to come. I've never met a girl who knows as much
54:45about music as you do in television. Don't get me started. I've seen every episode of everything.
54:52How was it? He's extraordinary.
54:59You don't have to go home, but you can't stay here. Can I walk you?
55:03Life's too short to waste time on things you don't absolutely love.
55:08But how do you know if you love something absolutely?
55:12I guess when it's the only thing that matters.
55:17The band got offered a gig in Paris. Come with us on tour.
55:21I'm afraid I can't. But I think you very well could be the next John Coltrane.
55:26What are you going to be?
55:33WNAT television.
55:34How about the assistant producer position?
55:37Are you married?
55:38Yes.
55:39Hey.
55:40Producer's assistant's not the best job for a housewife.
55:44Why should I hire you?
55:45Because I didn't know that a negro woman television producer even existed.
55:50And all my life that is all I've ever wanted to be.
55:52It's been a long time since I felt the way that I do.
55:58Robert.
56:00Sylvie?
56:01What are you doing in New York?
56:03Recording an album.
56:05It's so good to see you.
56:06You too.
56:11You're working.
56:12You're not being a very good hostess. And what will people say?
56:15I can't be the woman of your dreams while also trying to be the woman of my own.
56:18I guess I just wanted you to be happy.
56:29Even if I couldn't be a part of your life.
56:31Pleasant experiences ahead. Don't pass it by.
Comments